View Full Version : military gear
irrationalsolutions
03-30-2009, 00:06
i was wondering if anyone has ever done a major trail thru hike with just standard issue military gear? :-?
4eyedbuzzard
03-30-2009, 01:59
Probably. But why bother? Most military equipment is poorly suited to civilian hiking needs.
daddytwosticks
03-30-2009, 07:35
New trail name..."G.I. Joe"....:)
i've done large section hikes using either alice rucksacks or molle framed packs. stupid idea. everything is twice or three times as heavy as it needs to be.
the only military thing i keep around is my military issue thermarest
mustangpwr98
03-30-2009, 08:36
Some things are ok and cheap from Surplus stores:
Esbit stoves and tabs, ponchos wool sweaters, polypro long underware,1 qt canteens
The trade for cheap is that t is usually heavier than whats available from you local backpacking store.
August (05 and 08) used mostly military equipment. But last year two young guys with lots of heavy military stuff hiked from Katahdin Stream to Abol Bridge and went home after falling in the water and losing stuff in a small ford. Paul (Ole Man) had tried to get them to lighten their loads, but they wouldn't hear of it... When they called him to pick them up they said "we're the idiots who wouldn't listen"
Just did a little backpacking trip with the Boy Scouts, some of the boys have dads in the military and were carrying all military gear. I try to teach the boys how to backpack light but these boys were way heavy and dragging by the and of a 10 mile day.
Valentine
03-30-2009, 13:42
The Military does it all the time. Comfort and lightweight are not the first design concerns. Reliable and cost effective are probably their top design traits.
Feral Bill
03-30-2009, 15:25
More knowledegable people may correct me, but I believe that military types who actually travel on foot a lot (special forces) mostly use commercial gear.
More knowledegable people may correct me, but I believe that military types who actually travel on foot a lot (special forces) mostly use commercial gear.
It varies. Regular infantry spends a lot of time on their feet, and they use standard issue gear.
I was in a "special" unit and we got some special issue packs from Gregory and arctic/mountaineering tents from The North Face for Norway deployments, and they were actually a little heavier than regular issue gear (but MUCH more comfortable). We were allowed to use civilian clothing in the field, especially base layers, as long as they were in "tactical" colors. And we could get away with civilian boots as long as they were dark "tactical" colors.
Outside of arctic deployments, we still mostly used standard issue gear. My one exception was the Thermarest I always carried.
When I thru-hiked, the only issue gear I carried was the outer green bag of the USMC modular sleeping bag system. It went with me from Hot Springs to Katahdin.
Nowadays, I'll often carry a milspec poncho liner in summer.
McKeever
03-30-2009, 18:02
Back in the 70's most hikers only had two choices, Coleman type external packs and bags or military surplus. A surplus alice pack properly setup wasn't too bad before ultra light packs.
Desert Reprobate
03-30-2009, 18:51
There were a lot of Kelty packs on the trail in the mid 60s
SGT Rock
03-30-2009, 19:20
Just a few items. Knit hat, wool gloves, field pants liners, field jacket liner.
irrationalsolutions
03-30-2009, 20:27
well i still use my alice pack occasionally mostly for hunting trips. i also use my poncho and my camelbac 3l thats about all i use from issue gear myself.
SGT Rock
03-30-2009, 20:28
Alice pack for trail maintenance, Camel Bak occasionally for bushwacking.
double d
03-31-2009, 01:07
Military surplus poncho liners are great, they are lightweight, mostly inexpensive, they take a beating and have many uses (ground sheet, blanket, sleeping bag liner, etc.). I usually pack one with me.
Surplusman
04-02-2009, 08:45
I have used surplus military gear for many years. When I got interested in hiking and backpacking again I used it because it was dirt cheap and rugged. As time went on, I was able to replace it with regular gear, and I'm still looking for a nice light 3-day pack that can take some abuse. No problem, though. I'll find one.
But that surplus stuff got me hiking again until I could afford better equipment.
"You go with what you got, not with what you wish you had."
JaxHiker
04-02-2009, 10:17
My buddy does. This is him hiking with us through part of the Florida Trail. Notice the combat boots. He even bloused his fatigue pants. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/ocala/juniper_prairie/1187_70567.jpg
superman
04-02-2009, 10:24
Military surplus poncho liners are great, they are lightweight, mostly inexpensive, they take a beating and have many uses (ground sheet, blanket, sleeping bag liner, etc.). I usually pack one with me.
Way back when my pack, PRC 25 radio cover and web gear were canvas. When I cleared post in Dian I sent some stuff home as "hold baggage." I wrapped a few things in what I had...which was one fatigue shirt (P38 in pocket) and one poncho. So after over 40 years those are the only things I have from that time. Everything else was taken (including the clothes on our backs) in shake down inspection at each stop. They gave us one new uniform to go home in. I have a new poncho liner and the old one. The old one is every bit as good to go as the new one.
vamelungeon
04-02-2009, 10:31
I use a USGI poncho and a Swedish stove/mess kit. For SHORT hikes in cool weather I have a USGI intermediate cold sleeping bag, but it is HEAVY.
take-a-knee
04-02-2009, 10:34
My buddy does. This is him hiking with us through part of the Florida Trail. Notice the combat boots. He even bloused his fatigue pants. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/ocala/juniper_prairie/1187_70567.jpg
Blousing boots in tick country is smart. I would prefer jungle boots to the leather "DeSade" version.
mister krabs
04-02-2009, 12:56
how good is the poncho liner as a warm weather sleeping bag? I've gotten real fond of my jacket liner, and was hoping to use a poncho liner this summer to save a few more ounces.
theinfamousj
04-02-2009, 13:40
how good is the poncho liner as a warm weather sleeping bag? I've gotten real fond of my jacket liner, and was hoping to use a poncho liner this summer to save a few more ounces.
Disclaimer: I am a very cold sleeper.
I have used it successfully to camp in the summer at the NC beaches. It does fine then.
Compared with my Primaloft jacket, the insulation in the poncho liner is lacking. I'd expect it is made of some pre-Thinsulate material. An ambitious plan that I have is to unquilt a poncho liner and replace the "guts" with Primaloft and then requilt it to make a warmer liner.
Tipi Walter
04-02-2009, 13:56
More knowledegable people may correct me, but I believe that military types who actually travel on foot a lot (special forces) mostly use commercial gear.
I had a buddy in 5th Group back in the 1980s and he just retired after two Nam tours, one with the 173rd and one with the 5th. We talked about gear and I asked him why he didn't get a decent $300 down bag for winter patrols. He looked at me half-crazed and said it would've been torn to shreds in a couple of days.
I took out a guy on leave from the 75th Ranger battalion and he had an old ALICE pack w/o the frame and we hit the trail. At the trailhead by the car he pulled out his .45 from the glove compartment and stashed it in his pack. I told him he didn't need it and he said, "I always carry it." He said he did all the schools the army wanted him to do: SERE, Jungle School, EIB test, Airborne, Drill Sergeant school, and said the hardest school was the POW school. He had to sign a paper, "WE are not responsible for small broken bones."
My buddy does. This is him hiking with us through part of the Florida Trail. Notice the combat boots. He even bloused his fatigue pants. :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v386/fotomonkey/hiking/ocala/juniper_prairie/1187_70567.jpg
What a great fotog! It reminds me of so much! I spent years using an ALICE and this shot looks like he's using it with the frame. I used the frame some but mostly liked it to hang w/o the frame. I remember the stupid top flap with the tiny "map pocket". There's something about wearing military gear as this picture shows, you get a sort of macho-commando headrush in the woods wearing this stuff. It's great.
As far as military backpacking gear, for years all I ever wore were military pants with the thigh pockets, either ripstop cotton types or the heavyweight cotton/poly BDUs. These lasted forever, unlike the softer cotton ripstops, but like blue jeans were just too thick and hot and heavy for long term walking. Good though in the winter over polypro. The best were the hard-to-find "tiger stripe" pants, very light and very soft and looked . . . serious.
I also favored nam style jungle boots though I hated what they did to my heels--hard to walk in.
Another favored item were the OG107 cotton blouses with the slanted top pockets and the full lower pockets. They worked great with a pack cuz the pockets stayed useable with shoulder straps and a hipbelt. Underneath I often wore the polyester fill liner that Sgt Rock favors, what we use to call the field jacket liner. I also wore the pants liner in the winter under wool pants.
For me nothing says Nam Vet and Special Forces more than a starched OG107 cotton blouse with the covered pocket buttons and the slanted flaps. When I was in the USAF in Panama we used to go to Ft Gulick where the 7th of the 7th(?)SF soldiers worked and all of them wore this blouse for their fatigue uniform. Sharp and serious.
GI gear is great for guys living in poverty, but for the modern backpacker with some cash on hand, there's a hundred better alternatives.
I use these Military Surplus Packs on dayhikes and overnighters.
http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/cb/cb.aspx?a=321488
They are fairly lightweight, comfortable, and very rugged. And they are very cheap, which for guys like me with massive student loan payments, is great.
SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 14:59
Reference poncho liners - they do not add a lot of warmth. The weight on them is about 21 ounces, you can get a good bag at that weight.
take-a-knee
04-02-2009, 16:52
Reference poncho liners - they do not add a lot of warmth. The weight on them is about 21 ounces, you can get a good bag at that weight.
I didn't know a poncho liner was that heavy, that is what a JRB No Sniveler weighs and I can stay warm to 20 degrees with that. I freeze below 60 with a poncho liner.
Tipi Walter
04-02-2009, 17:00
I didn't know a poncho liner was that heavy, that is what a JRB No Sniveler weighs and I can stay warm to 20 degrees with that. I freeze below 60 with a poncho liner.
My SF buddy souvineered me a lot of gear, but he would never part with his poncho liner.
I was stationed in Panama for two years and a couple of us did treks in the Los Crucis rain forest using old BSA Yucca packs and climbing rope for waterfall rappels. Leeches and bushmasters. Does anyone know about jungle hammocks? We tried to get a few from the Air Force survival school in the Zone but had no luck.
SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 18:23
I still have my poncho liner too, but it ain't for trail hiking. It was nice to keep in a butt pack or for traveling on the C130 for napping in the plane or on the floor of a hanger somewhere.
Pedaling Fool
04-02-2009, 18:49
I want to outfit myself with nothing but military gear. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Future_Force_Warrior)
SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 18:52
They have been working on that crap for decades. Keeps certain people in jobs.
Tipi Walter
04-02-2009, 20:08
I still have my poncho liner too, but it ain't for trail hiking. It was nice to keep in a butt pack or for traveling on the C130 for napping in the plane or on the floor of a hanger somewhere.
We used to sleep on the back ramp in flight. Remember the little pee tube on the side of the plane? Had a little hinged cap. I remember the web seats facing inward and a guy puking all over my leg.
Surplusman
04-03-2009, 07:28
Does anyone know about jungle hammocks?
Several surplus places sell M-1966 jungle hammocks. These are brand new, but they are the first type that do not have the clips for attaching a poncho as a "roof" and the round rubber drip disks. I've used one for years, and the extra bonus is I don't have to sleep in a shelter. I snore like crazy. I wish I could remember which surplus places sold the M66 hammocks. I think one place was Army Surplus Warehouse and the other was Omaha's Surplus.
Tipi Walter
04-03-2009, 07:36
Several surplus places sell M-1966 jungle hammocks. These are brand new, but they are the first type that do not have the clips for attaching a poncho as a "roof" and the round rubber drip disks. I've used one for years, and the extra bonus is I don't have to sleep in a shelter. I snore like crazy. I wish I could remember which surplus places sold the M66 hammocks. I think one place was Army Surplus Warehouse and the other was Omaha's Surplus.
Thanks for the update. What's the overall weight of one of these babies, by the way?
Surplusman
04-03-2009, 09:23
Thanks for the update. What's the overall weight of one of these babies, by the way?
Weight of hammock w/poncho clips & toggles is 1lb 7oz.
Surplusman
04-03-2009, 09:51
I should have added that with a standard Army poncho attached the total weight is about 3 lbs. The poncho attaches to the hammock thru the center grommet holes on both ends. I don't see why you couldn't use a nice lightweight tarp with grommets in it just the same as the poncho. I've never done it, but I am thinking about it.
Tipi Walter
04-03-2009, 11:14
I should have added that with a standard Army poncho attached the total weight is about 3 lbs. The poncho attaches to the hammock thru the center grommet holes on both ends. I don't see why you couldn't use a nice lightweight tarp with grommets in it just the same as the poncho. I've never done it, but I am thinking about it.
I'm sure there are more, but are you familiar with the two different styles of Army ponchos? The old one was a heavy "rubberized" canvas version, very stout and bombproof. The newer one(1970s)is the standard lightweight nylon poncho everybody thinks of when they think 'army poncho.'
I was lucky enough to come into a half dozen of the old style ponchos and used them in part to make a decent tipi. They lash together well and are beefy enough to take the wind.
SGT Rock
04-03-2009, 11:16
I had one of the old ones as my raing gear back in the '70s and '80s. I don't know what happened to it. I have a few of the new ones.
Surplusman
04-03-2009, 12:59
I'm sure there are more, but are you familiar with the two different styles of Army ponchos? The old one was a heavy "rubberized" canvas version, very stout and bombproof. The newer one(1970s)is the standard lightweight nylon poncho everybody thinks of when they think 'army poncho.'
I was lucky enough to come into a half dozen of the old style ponchos and used them in part to make a decent tipi. They lash together well and are beefy enough to take the wind.
I well remember the old "heavy" version from my time in Uncle Sam's employment. I am certain they would make a great tipi. The type poncho I use on the hammock is the newer coated nylon, simply because I had a brand new one. Otherwise I would try to find an older one. I seem to think they were far more durable.
I agree with those liking the jacket liner and poncho liner. Sgt Rock is correct about the availability of other options for the poncho liner that are warmer and lighter. I still like them in hot weather situations on shorter hikes, and you can't beat the price. If you are talking about a long hike spend the bucks for better gear.
I agree that quite a bit of military gear is overkill for regular hiking, but over the last year I have been impressed with some of the new issue we have getting in preparation for an upcoming OEF deployment. Quite a bit is now actually direct purchase gear from outfits like Outdoor Research,MSR, and others. I also like the new Gen III layering system and use quite a bit of it for multi day trips.
SGT Rock
04-03-2009, 14:17
It is getting better. One of the things that has improved is the way stuff is purchased. Back in the day if you wanted a new magaizine pouch you had to get the Army interested in the idea. Then they appointed a comitte to write the specifications. Then the specs went out to interested manufacturers. Those folks made their version. Then there was a evaluation phase where the gear was tested by a group that only tested gear. Then the different versions went to bid. Then that gear was given a test fielding. Then finally if it made it through a test fielding - then it was put on a phased force fielding plan.
The new way is more rapid - hence it being called rapid fielding initiative. This lets the branch look for something it needs - in this case we will say an ammo pouch. They figure what it needs to do, then they look and see if someone is already making something that they can use. If they find what they need - they buy it and give it to soldiers. This is good in two ways: the soldiers are not stuck for decades with the stuff that made it through the last fielding. Chances are by the time the old system ended, the gear was already outdated and the process had to start out again already. Wastes money and time. And the soldiers test the gear in actual field conditions. If the new CamelBak pack is a POS, then it will come out quickly and the Army can just stop buying those and find a new one - or the CamelBak company can redesign on the fly.