Smoky Mountains NP: Reservations?

[erichkopp]

I've been reading a lot about being required to make campsite/shelter reservations while in Smoky Mountains NP. It seems like a huge pain, and sometimes it's impossible to know exactly what day you're going to be some place. How many thru-hikers actually make reservations before arriving in SMNP?

[papa john]

None, the rules don't apply to thru-hikers. When you get to the Park, get your permit and write "Thru-Hiker" on it and press on.

[Egads]

No big deal. Pick up the phone, dial it, and talk to the friendly ranger

"Plan your trip and determine which sites you wish to camp at. If your itinerary includes a reserved site or any shelter, you must call the Backcountry Reservation Office at (865) 436-1231 to make reservations. The Backcountry Reservation Office is open from 8:00 a.m. until 6:00 p.m. daily. You may make reservations up to one month in advance of the first day of your trip. (For example, if you wish to backpack on August 8-12, you may call the Backcountry Reservation Office on July 8 to make reservations for the entire length of time you will be backpacking.) Be prepared to give your complete trip plan when calling the Backcountry Reservations Office."

Nothing here about writing thru hiker on the permit http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm

I'd love to find out that I'm wrong

[Turbo]

Thru hikers are not required to make reservations. Just to make sure that rule was written down somewhere, I looked it up in the Appalachian Trail Thru-hikers' Companion 2008. It's on page 35, in the section on "Shelter Policy." Between March 15 and June 15, 4 spaces at each shelter are supposed to be reserved for thru-hikers. Unfortunately, after those 4 spaces fill up, other thru-hikers may be forced to give up there spot in a shelter to a hiker with reservations, even if that hiker arrives very late. I've hiked a lot in the smokies during March and have never seen a hiker with reservations force a thru-hiker out of the shelter, but it could happen.

[sliderule]

Nothing here about writing thru hiker on the permit http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm

I'd love to find out that I'm wrong

The rules for thru hikers are explained via signage at Fontana Dam/Marina and at Hot Springs. My guess is that the NPS is trying to prevent abuse of the thru hiker rules by avoiding unnecessary promulgation. If you don't see the signs, you most likely aren't a thru hiker.

[SGT Rock]

Here is the smokies Rule Book. Covers everything you ever thought to ask.

http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/upload/07%20Compendium.pdf




The use of tents at shelters is prohibited except by persons

qualifying as

thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail (by

definition an Appalachian thru-hiker is a backpacker who is
using the Appalachian Trail exclusively while in the park
and whose trip begins and ends a minimum of fifty miles
outside the park). Thru-hikers may pitch tents outside
shelters only when all bunks are otherwise occupied.


It is unrealistic to expect thru-hikers to obtain advance
reservations when they do not know when they will be
entering the park.
Note: A Compendium of Orders for the Appalachian
National Scenic Trail sets forth additional restrictions
which apply to specific sections of the A.T. outside Great
Smoky Mountains National Park. For information,
contact the Appalachian National Scenic Trail office in

Harpers Ferry, West Virginia.

[erichkopp]

Thanks for the replies. This is what I was hoping to hear.

[bigben]

What's the worst thing that can happen to a section hiker who "lies" and fills out a thru-hiker permit? What's the likelyhood of getting busted? How could a ridgerunner prove you wrong if questioned, provided you show tham the completed permit? I know someone who wants to hike Fontana to Davenport next year and really doesn't want to be forced into HAVING to make it to specific shelters on specific dates or having to deal with say, not getting the reservation wanted i.e. 4 days in and having to do a extra short or extra long day because of it. FWIW, the plan is to follow the thruhiker rules and spend ONLY a max of 8 days and 7 nights in the park staying only at the shelters, and it will be a little later than the big thruhiker rush(mid May).

Thoughts?

[papa john]

Worst thing is a big fine and an escort out of the park. I've run into ridgerunners several times and was never asked about my permit. Never seen a ranger in the back country.

[SGT Rock]

What's the worst thing that can happen to a section hiker who "lies" and fills out a thru-hiker permit? What's the likelyhood of getting busted? How could a ridgerunner prove you wrong if questioned, provided you show tham the completed permit? I know someone who wants to hike Fontana to Davenport next year and really doesn't want to be forced into HAVING to make it to specific shelters on specific dates or having to deal with say, not getting the reservation wanted i.e. 4 days in and having to do a extra short or extra long day because of it. FWIW, the plan is to follow the thruhiker rules and spend ONLY a max of 8 days and 7 nights in the park staying only at the shelters, and it will be a little later than the big thruhiker rush(mid May).

Thoughts?That is why you should get the Thru-Hiker ID card from Pirate at Neels Gap.

[Tipi Walter]

I've been reading a lot about being required to make campsite/shelter reservations while in Smoky Mountains NP. It seems like a huge pain, and sometimes it's impossible to know exactly what day you're going to be some place. How many thru-hikers actually make reservations before arriving in SMNP?

It is a huge pain. The whole point of backpacking is to hike until you don't wanna hike anymore and find a place to camp. Or you hike until a terrible storm hits or you're getting cold and wet and hypothermic, so you find an immediate tentsite and call it a day. It's called "spontaneous". Plus, the motards won't let my backpacking dog into the Park, so right there I've been nanny-stated to death. It's sort of like Ed Abbey talked about, have a nice trip but in a clockwise direction only.


No big deal. Pick up the phone, dial it, and talk to the friendly ranger

"Plan your trip and determine which sites you wish to camp at. If your itinerary includes a reserved site or any shelter, you must call the Backcountry Reservation Office at (865) 436-1231 to make reservations. The Backcountry Reservation Office is open from 8:00 a.m. until 6:00 p.m. daily. You may make reservations up to one month in advance of the first day of your trip. (For example, if you wish to backpack on August 8-12, you may call the Backcountry Reservation Office on July 8 to make reservations for the entire length of time you will be backpacking.) Be prepared to give your complete trip plan when calling the Backcountry Reservations Office."

Nothing here about writing thru hiker on the permit http://www.nps.gov/grsm/planyourvisit/backcountry-camping.htm

I'd love to find out that I'm wrong

I love the quote, "be prepared to give your complete trip plan when calling. . ." I mean, this is ludricrous. Suppose I'm out for a 15 day trip and I can in no way know where I'll be from day to day, or even want to be? Suppose I want to deviate from the set schedule, god forbid I get a wild hair to try a different trail, etc. I mean, who's in charge here? It feels like I've been out all day playing football with my friends and at around dusk my Mom drives by and yells at me to get home. She's mad cuz I've been gone all day. Oops, I got caught for breaching my house arrest. Maybe the park honchos could give every backpacker an ankle monitor to record precise location. You'd still have to register your sites, but they'd be better able to account for you.

I wonder what the tent police would do if you called and gave them an intricate and detailed itinerary for a 60 day uninterrupted park backpacking trip. If you had it all down to a T and swamped them with trail names and site locations and intricate loops. I'm sure there's a rule against it.

[Pedaling Fool]

That is why you should get the Thru-Hiker ID card from Pirate at Neels Gap.
I lost mine. How do I get a new one?

[sliderule]

I wonder what the tent police would do if you called and gave them an intricate and detailed itinerary for a 60 day uninterrupted park backpacking trip. If you had it all down to a T and swamped them with trail names and site locations and intricate loops. I'm sure there's a rule against it.

You bet there is:


Stay limits

:Persons may not stay more than three (3)

nights in a row at any backcountry campsite or more than

one (1) night in a row at any backcountry designated shelter.
Persons may not stay more than 30 consecutive days in the


backcountry or 60 days total in a one year period.

[Pony]

What's the worst thing that can happen to a section hiker who "lies" and fills out a thru-hiker permit? What's the likelyhood of getting busted? How could a ridgerunner prove you wrong if questioned, provided you show tham the completed permit? I know someone who wants to hike Fontana to Davenport next year and really doesn't want to be forced into HAVING to make it to specific shelters on specific dates or having to deal with say, not getting the reservation wanted i.e. 4 days in and having to do a extra short or extra long day because of it. FWIW, the plan is to follow the thruhiker rules and spend ONLY a max of 8 days and 7 nights in the park staying only at the shelters, and it will be a little later than the big thruhiker rush(mid May).

Thoughts?

I met two ridgerunners last may in the Smokies and neither one asked to see our permits. They asked if we had one but when I reached into my pack they said not to worry about it they believed us.

As far as shelters, I tented out one night, another night it was pretty crowded but enough room, and the other two nights it was just me and my hiking partner, so crowds could vary.

As a result of the rules regarding staying in shelters, I felt a little rushed through the Smokies. It seemed like I had to hike 10 miles or 20 miles to the next shelter, no in between. It kind of felt like being on a schedule.

[flemdawg1]

Met a backcountry ranger at the Mt. Sterling campsite that was giving a wilderness 1st-aid course, he asked for my permit; so it does happen albeit rarely.

[Tipi Walter]

You bet there is:


Stay limits

:Persons may not stay more than three (3)


nights in a row at any backcountry campsite or more than


one (1) night in a row at any backcountry designated shelter.


Persons may not stay more than 30 consecutive days in the







backcountry or 60 days total in a one year period.


60 days total in one year? What kind of National Park is this, anyway? I guess it's a good rule as it encourages either home ownership with failed mortages or wandering homeless bums sleeping on sidewalks. Sure can't live for long in the Park. But let's celebrate the 100 Millioneth Car To Pass Thru The Park Day in downtown Gatlinburg.

I think the AT should institute this rule, and so everyone would have to do their thruhike in 2 months max.

I feel every backpacking place will eventually come with a thick rule book like the Smokies. I guess it's inevitable. I mean, look what the Nanny State did to the Indians, took away their best camping lands, stuck them on a fraction of their old territory, gave them christian names and cut their hair, couldn't speak their language, took their children for boarding schools, tried to eradicate their culture, took their land and gave them the Bible. Not a fair trade. We're getting off light with just the Smokies Rule Book.

[curtisvowen]

I never see anyone mention the fact that the GSMNP is 1 of our nation's 30 International Biospheres.
Maybe that's the reason for the regulations?
There's a controlled environment for good reason.....people are pigs and have/will destroy/trash nature's finest.

[Tipi Walter]

I never see anyone mention the fact that the GSMNP is 1 of our nation's 30 International Biospheres.
Maybe that's the reason for the regulations?
There's a controlled environment for good reason.....people are pigs and have/will destroy/trash nature's finest.

The Park has the same air quality as Los Angeles. Controlled environment? Where's the rule book for the car drivers? And how could it be a biosphere if there's bumper-to-bumper tourist traffic in the summer on the Cades Cove motor loop? Or the Roaring Fork Motor Nature Trail? My dog might not be able to go in, but it's wide open to 40 foot motor homes. Who's in charge?

[sliderule]

My dog might not be able to go in, but it's wide open to 40 foot motor homes. Who's in charge?

Dogs are not prohibited from entering the park. They are allowed in alll the same places as motor homes, plus a couple of trails. So the dogs actually have a slight advantge.

[papa john]

Not to mention the tour buses!

[Tipi Walter]

Dogs are not prohibited from entering the park. They are allowed in alll the same places as motor homes, plus a couple of trails. So the dogs actually have a slight advantge.

Spell it out: do you mean I can take my dog on a backpacking trip thru the park?

[SGT Rock]

I lost mine. How do I get a new one?
See pirate.

[SGT Rock]

Spell it out: do you mean I can take my dog on a backpacking trip thru the park?No.

[SGT Rock]

It is a huge pain. The whole point of backpacking is to hike until you don't wanna hike anymore and find a place to camp. Or you hike until a terrible storm hits or you're getting cold and wet and hypothermic, so you find an immediate tentsite and call it a day. It's called "spontaneous". Plus, the motards won't let my backpacking dog into the Park, so right there I've been nanny-stated to death. It's sort of like Ed Abbey talked about, have a nice trip but in a clockwise direction only.
I agree with you Tipi. I wanted to do a "walk about" in the park. Just start at one end and go where the wind takes me, sleep where I want to when I want to. Can't do it.

So I've made an "itinerary" which is about where I plan to go. Still leaves me some freedom, but not as much as I would like.


I love the quote, "be prepared to give your complete trip plan when calling. . ." I mean, this is ludricrous. Suppose I'm out for a 15 day trip and I can in no way know where I'll be from day to day, or even want to be? Suppose I want to deviate from the set schedule, god forbid I get a wild hair to try a different trail, etc. I mean, who's in charge here?

This is where you can sort of play the rules. You can actually go anywhere you want in the park - the camping is what is regulated. And you only need a reservation (meaning you need to call in ahead of time) at certain places. So you can camp at any non-reservation campsite without calling in or getting on their system. SOOOO, if you turn in a permit that shows multiple campsites on an itinerary that are in areas about where you want to go. Then you can base camp it and explore around each consecutive base camp. It is a strategy. As I understand the rules, you can also change your itinerary, and as long as you don't change your itinerary to any place that requires a reservation you don't have to call in. One time on the AT doing a section there were two older guys who had over-estimated their ability and called in like three times in one day to change their itinerary for shelters. The didn't have to turn in a new permit at the ranger station each time, they only needed new reservations for the shelters and to cancel the reserved spots they had.


It feels like I've been out all day playing football with my friends and at around dusk my Mom drives by and yells at me to get home. She's mad cuz I've been gone all day. Oops, I got caught for breaching my house arrest. Maybe the park honchos could give every backpacker an ankle monitor to record precise location. You'd still have to register your sites, but they'd be better able to account for you.
As I understand it, the rules are like fall back positions. If you are out there playing nice and not shacking up in one place, they don't come looking for you. But if you are causing problems or are trying to live in a shelter, the rules give them all the justification to make you leave without needing to go get a court order.


I wonder what the tent police would do if you called and gave them an intricate and detailed itinerary for a 60 day uninterrupted park backpacking trip. If you had it all down to a T and swamped them with trail names and site locations and intricate loops. I'm sure there's a rule against it.
Not really. But you cannot use a trail name. But they also don't check ID on the phone either. You just call it in.

I've called in trips and told them campsites. The person on the other end will tell me "I think you just told me the wrong campsite, you cannot make it from X to Y in a day". I'll say - "I looked at it. Seems it was only 18 miles". They respond - "well yes it is" and I tell them I can do 18 please reserve it.