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ncmtns
04-02-2009, 08:52
My hat off to most Ridge runners in the Smokeys who go way beyond the call of duty in all their responcibilities. I have much admiration for most of them. But sometimes one will come to a shelter throwing his weight around like he was a trail god. What kind of authority do they really have? Do they have power to issue violation tickets? Who do they report to?

Rain Man
04-02-2009, 09:13
Not sure I can answer your explicit queries, but I can say they must have the patience of saints. Sooooo many people in the Smokies have no idea of the rules, and too many of the rest (as proved by various threads on WB) feel the rules are only for mere mortals and they are above the law.

My hat is off to the Smoky ridge runners. The ones I personally met were gracious, hard-working, personable, low-paid, humble hikers.

Rain:sunMan

.

papa john
04-02-2009, 09:17
It is my understanding that they report to the ATC and have no "legal authority". That being said, they are in radio contact with a ranger who does have all the legal authority to deal with you in a way that you most likely won't like.

Lone Wolf
04-02-2009, 09:50
My hat off to most Ridge runners in the Smokeys who go way beyond the call of duty in all their responcibilities. I have much admiration for most of them. But sometimes one will come to a shelter throwing his weight around like he was a trail god. What kind of authority do they really have? Do they have power to issue violation tickets? Who do they report to?

they have no authority. they answer to the trail club president

sliderule
04-02-2009, 10:32
they have no authority. they answer to the trail club president

In the Smokies, the ridgerunner answers to three bosses: the maintaining club, the ATC and the NPS. And their priorities are often not aligned.

4eyedbuzzard
04-02-2009, 10:34
...But sometimes one will come to a shelter throwing his weight around like he was a trail god....

Specific example?

sliderule
04-02-2009, 10:38
in all their responcibilities. I have much admiration for most of them. But sometimes one will come to a shelter throwing his weight around like he was a trail god.

There have been a few cases of "imposter" ridge runners. One, in particular, was a former NPS volunteer who kept his uniform shirt and hat. He would couduct his own "patrols" and pretend to exercise authority that he didn't have.

papa john
04-02-2009, 10:38
I can see where one would be out of sorts. After you've spent all week cleaning out dirty shelters, fire places and fire rings, I'd be ready to kick some a$$ and take some names.

Lone Wolf
04-02-2009, 11:10
I can see where one would be out of sorts. After you've spent all week cleaning out dirty shelters, fire places and fire rings, I'd be ready to kick some a$$ and take some names.

maybe he/she should do something else if little stuff like that pisses them off

papa john
04-02-2009, 11:54
maybe he/she should do something else if little stuff like that pisses them off

Yep, that's why I didn't.

Tipi Walter
04-02-2009, 12:53
It is my understanding that they report to the ATC and have no "legal authority". That being said, they are in radio contact with a ranger who does have all the legal authority to deal with you in a way that you most likely won't like.

Just want we need, more cops in the backcountry.

Digger'02
04-02-2009, 14:53
I'd appriciate any specific examples of bullying. That said, there are some instances, few and far between as they may be, where a voice of reason sternly applied is deserved by some folks who are acting like jerks.

Last year, Smokies ridgeruners were vital in apprehending a few guys who were stealing food bags in the night. Ridgerunners have also been helpful in finding not only persons who need to be notified of emergencies, but people intimidating hikers and providing an unsafe or unwelcome hiking environment. Smokies HQ has a machete removed from an unsafe personality by the tact of ridgerunners.

Also, Ridgerunners remove hundreds of pounds of trash annually just from the smokies....I wouldn't call that LITTLE, and some of the stuff is rediculous.

SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 14:57
I ain't met a bad one yet.

Digger'02
04-02-2009, 15:03
what does 3 up and 3 down mean to you!? (end of an inning?):)

The Mechanical Man
04-02-2009, 16:53
There have been a few cases of "imposter" ridge runners. One, in particular, was a former NPS volunteer who kept his uniform shirt and hat. He would couduct his own "patrols" and pretend to exercise authority that he didn't have.

Don't knock it till you tried it....................
Sounds like you are talking about a "VOLUNTEER" ridgerunner, not an imposter.

They have the same authority as a paid Ridgerunner, and they too can contact a ranger if problems arise. :sun

Rifleman
04-02-2009, 19:30
Stay away from the freakin' shelters and you shouldn't have a problem with the ridgerunners.;)

sliderule
04-02-2009, 19:34
Don't knock it till you tried it....................
Sounds like you are talking about a "VOLUNTEER" ridgerunner, not an imposter.



No. That's not at all what I was talking about. Imposter is precisely what I meant.

A-Train
04-02-2009, 19:34
Not sure about the alleged RR, but Lone Wolf is incorrect. While they have no power themsevles to issue tickets, they can sure let the authorities know about a PITA person who feels the rules don't apply to them.

Each section is different, but when I worked in Jersey I reported to both state rangers and National Park Service rangers who had the authority to issue tickets and arrest folks.

While they aren't usually on the trail, Ridgerunners are in contact with them via radio's which are on the same system as state police and emergency workers. I had a few situations where I needed to contact the NPS rangers and in one case, people were ticketed for not abiding by the rules.

SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 19:43
I am pretty darn sure they do not use volunteer ridgerunners in the Smokies either. They are all paid employees of the ATC as far as I know. They have a "uniform" and a radio for contacting the Park Police when needed.

And any person has the power for citizens arrest. They may not be able to issue a citation, but if they witness a felony or misdemeanor they do have the same power as any other citizen to take reasonable action to apprehend or prevent escape.

sliderule
04-02-2009, 19:49
Not sure about the alleged RR, but Lone Wolf is incorrect. While they have no power themsevles to issue tickets, they can sure let the authorities know about a PITA person who feels the rules don't apply to them.



When I volunteered in the Smokies, I was specifically told not to report anything to dispatch unless it was a felony or medical emergency. It just isn't practical for a law enforcement ranger to respond to a "no permit" call on someone miles from the nearest trailhead.

In general, much of the paid NPS staff doesn't have a warm place in their hearts for volunteers to begin with. And especially not when the volunteers create more work for them.

SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 19:52
When I volunteered in the Smokies, I was specifically told not to report anything to dispatch unless it was a felony or medical emergency. It just isn't practical for a law enforcement ranger to respond to a "no permit" call on someone miles from the nearest trailhead.

So there are volunteer ridge-runners up there? I haven't seen one yet.


In general, much of the paid NPS staff doesn't have a warm place in their hearts for volunteers to begin with. And especially not when the volunteers create more work for them.
I can believe that.

Lone Wolf
04-02-2009, 19:54
Not sure about the alleged RR, but Lone Wolf is incorrect. While they have no power themsevles to issue tickets, they can sure let the authorities know about a PITA person who feels the rules don't apply to them.


like i said, they have no power. they're just tattle-tails. i am right

sliderule
04-02-2009, 19:55
And any person has the power for citizens arrest. They may not be able to issue a citation, but if they witness a felony or misdemeanor they do have the same power as any other citizen to take reasonable action to apprehend or prevent escape.

The primary mission of the Ridgerunner is education, not enforcement. The notion that a RR should take hikers into his custody is beyond bizarre.

SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 19:58
The primary mission of the Ridgerunner is education, not enforcement. The notion that a RR should take hikers into his custody is beyond bizarre.
I didn't mean that they should be out there taking guy into custody. Just saying there is an authority - but no different than anyone else that is a citizen. It is very impractical anyway. Just sayin..

sliderule
04-02-2009, 19:59
So there are volunteer ridge-runners up there? I haven't seen one yet.



In years past, there were shelter caretakers who were unpaid and performed many of the same functions as the present Ridgerunners.

A-Train
04-02-2009, 20:03
like i said, they have no power. they're just tattle-tails. i am right

You're right. Hopefully no one will tattle tail on you next time you are in the woods with a wounded leg or heart.

SGT Rock
04-02-2009, 20:09
Last guy giving hikers problems on the AT was not a ridge-runner, but a Law Enforcement Ranger. I guess enough guys were being problems to get one to hike out. I'd LOVE to get that job. Paid to hike.

sliderule
04-02-2009, 21:30
To put things into perspective, the Ridgerunners are on the trail to improve the experience for everyone involved. They are there to educate, inform and assist, not enforce. That said, there will always be a certain element of the population that resents their presence under any circumstances. Some people are going to feel "bullied" if the are given the slightest amount of tactful guidance. They want to be "free' to wash their dishes in the spring, throw their trash in the fireplace and cut down live trees for their nightly bonfire. And carve their initials in the shelter woodwork so that everyone else will know where they spent the night.

jeremiah j
04-03-2009, 00:23
Gomer did a citizens arrest of Barney in Andy Griffith show, it didn" work out too well

The Mechanical Man
04-03-2009, 02:16
The primary mission of the Ridgerunner is education, not enforcement.

Did you ever give a specific example, of what the problem really was?

If you have a complaint of a REAL AT problem, you should always try to settle it through the proper channels.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4806121/k.34A9/Personal_Safety__Awareness_Tips_for_AT_Hikers.htm

You are correct when you say "the primary mission is education",.......but on the other hand, Ridgerunners do have direct contact with local law enforcement officers, NPS Park Rangers, and trail club members - volunteers, whenever the need arises.

If you feel the law has been broken, ............In an emergency, note where you are and call 911. Report emergencies or incidents to ATC at [email protected] ([email protected]) or by calling (304) 535-6331. Suspicious or illegal behavior should be reported to the local rangers or local law enforcement (911 usually works, but other phone numbers are on official A.T. maps (http://www.atctrailstore.org/)) as well as ATC.

We all work together as a sort of BIG network of "tattle-tails", to keep the trail safe and enjoyable, for everyone. :sun

Lone Wolf
04-03-2009, 02:49
You are correct when you say "the primary mission is education",.......but on the other hand, Ridgerunners do have direct contact with local law enforcement officers, NPS Park Ranger

If you feel the law has been broken, ............In an emergency, note where you are and call 911.

We all work together as a sort of BIG network of "tattle-tails", to keep the trail safe and enjoyable, for everyone. :sun

most ridgerunners DO NOT have direct contact with anyone

KNOW the law has been broken. just don't "feel" it has

The Mechanical Man
04-03-2009, 03:21
most ridgerunners DO NOT have direct contact with anyone

KNOW the law has been broken. just don't "feel" it has

WOLF, You know as well as I do, that Ridgerunners can call anyone at anytime for backup, just like you and I can. AND it happens, more times than some folks like.

The LAW does NOT have to be broken in order to make a 911 call, or to report a trail problem to ATC.

BTW Lone Wolf, ........ GOOD to see you still here giving me a hard time.:sun

papa john
04-03-2009, 07:15
Every official RR in the park that I have met/seen was carrying a radio.

Lone Wolf
04-03-2009, 07:46
i ain't talkin' about no park. i'm sayin' ridgerunners generally don't carry radios. just cell phones that don't work most times anyway

SGT Rock
04-03-2009, 08:08
Every official RR in the park that I have met/seen was carrying a radio.
Same here.

4eyedbuzzard
04-03-2009, 08:23
I can't remember ever having more than just a normal conversation with any caretaker, runner, ranger, etc. I certainly never felt harassed in any way. One was a little overbearing once kind of "soft interrogating" me as we spoke on where I was going to camp, LNT, etc. Just a little overzealous and pompous though. I thanked him for the wisdom he had imparted and moved on. I had a ranger "visit" me about smoke from a Zip Stove once in NJ--this was in the early years of the Zip stove, they weren't common at all. He honestly wasn't sure about the legality of it given the fire ban vs contained stove situation. But he was pretty polite about it, told me about the ban, and said to finish cooking my meal anyway.

I'm thinking if you're polite and respectful you usually tend to get treated likewise.

warraghiyagey
04-03-2009, 08:31
I'm thinking if you're polite and respectful you usually tend to get treated likewise.

Well said. . . :)

SGT Rock
04-03-2009, 08:52
That has been my experience in things like this. I did a ride along with a KPD officer last year. HE was a no nonsense guy. He just wanted to do his shift and screw with as few people as possible. The very first call we went out on the guy was drinking in public, trespassing, soliciting a prostitute, and a few other things...

The officer told the guy to get out of there and go somewhere else and stay out of trouble.

The guy who was doing all these things started going off about how the cops always want to give him problems, can't they find some real criminals, and other things.

The cop then decided to cite him instead of just warn him off verbally.

The guy then went on to refuse to sign the citation. After the second request to sign, the officer had to warn him that after three refusals to sign he had to take him in.

The guy refuses to sign once more.

So the officer has to put the cuffs on him and take him in. The whole ride the guy continues to tell this officer all the things he has done wrong and how he has no authority and will sue him.

Of course he still goes to jail. The cop still is a cop, and he just stopped an armed robbery last week. Almost got killed doing it.

My point? These guys doing a job where they cannot just pass someone doing something (HYOY mantra or "I'm OK your OK") get crap from people. After a while it tends to burn your fuse up a little. If you just be polite, the folks I know are happy to move on to someone else. I'm guessing that they either don't get paid, or don't get paid well, but are out there doing a job which if fairly thankless. Getting crap every time they ask you about a permit or talk about carrying out your trash is probably not a fun thing for them either.

warraghiyagey
04-03-2009, 08:58
Getting crap every time they ask you about a permit or talk about carrying out your trash is probably not a fun thing for them either.

Yeah, I always cringe when a caretaker or RR goes through their checklist with me of how to tread lightly on the trail, knowing full well that they couldn't possibly know that that's what I'm all about out there. They are just doing their job while knowing that most of the people they are saying these things to likely are already all about it. I always smile and say yes ma'am or yes sir. . . it's the right thing to do. . . :sun:sun

Gray Blazer
04-03-2009, 09:00
I always smile and say yes ma'am or yes sir. . . it's the right thing to do. . . :sun:sun

Sheeple:banana

warraghiyagey
04-03-2009, 09:02
Sheeple:banana
Maybe. . . . I'm good with it though. . . :p

sliderule
04-03-2009, 11:04
You are correct when you say "the primary mission is education",.......but on the other hand, Ridgerunners do have direct contact with local law enforcement officers, NPS Park Rangers, and trail club members - volunteers, whenever the need arises.



Only in your overactive imagination!!!

4eyedbuzzard
04-03-2009, 11:04
Sheeple:banana

Or just knowing which battles are worth expending energy to fight and which to simply avoid. :)

sliderule
04-03-2009, 15:52
Did you ever give a specific example, of what the problem really was?



No, I didn't. That might be because I have no idea whatsoever what the original problem was. Except, of course, for what was reported in post #1.

I can give you some specific examples of situations which will receive no law enforcement response. But you have chosen to believe that law enforcement rangers can be made to instantly appear in remote areas to deal with every minor incident that might arise. And no amount of first-hand information to the contrary seems likely to change the fantasy world in which you seem to operate.

It's often difficult to get GRSM rangers to enforce blatant violations in front country campgrounds, when all they have to do is get out of their car!!! If you think they are going to run out to Tricorner Knob to issue a littering citation, you don't have much of a grasp on reality.

When I volunteered on the AT in the GRSM, I would have needed at least a dozen "back-ups" a day if I called in a ranger every time I encountered a violation. It just isn't going to happen.

The Mechanical Man
04-03-2009, 16:24
No, I didn't. That might be because I have no idea whatsoever what the original problem was. Except, of course, for what was reported in post #1.

I can give you some specific examples of situations which will receive no law enforcement response. But you have chosen to believe that law enforcement rangers can be made to instantly appear in remote areas to deal with every minor incident that might arise. And no amount of first-hand information to the contrary seems likely to change the fantasy world in which you seem to operate.

It's often difficult to get GRSM rangers to enforce blatant violations in front country campgrounds, when all they have to do is get out of their car!!! If you think they are going to run out to Tricorner Knob to issue a littering citation, you don't have much of a grasp on reality.

When I volunteered on the AT in the GRSM, I would have needed at least a dozen "back-ups" a day if I called in a ranger every time I encountered a violation. It just isn't going to happen.


You can believe whatever you want, .......I believe Cyber Bullys operate in the fantasy world you are now in.
This discussion is going nowhere..................

sliderule
04-03-2009, 16:30
This discussion is going nowhere..................

Largely because of your inability to keep track of who said what!!!

The Mechanical Man
04-03-2009, 16:36
Largely because of your inability to keep track of who said what!!!


Actually it's because you aint sayin anything worthwhile.
You make a lousy cyber bully. :D

Skyline
04-03-2009, 16:44
In SNP, our seasonal ridgerunners are paid. They work 10 out of 14 days. Much of that time is spent on the Trail, sleeping at or near shelters. They also participate in special educational and recreational events throughout their season.

The SNP ridgerunners DO carry a radio and can be in contact with the COM Center from almost everywhere on the AT. Unless they've been replaced by a lighter version recently, they weigh more than most currently popular solo tents.

The ridgerunners often stay in contact once or twice per day as a routine matter using these radios. During their check-in, they may or may not mention infractions that are less than a felony. That info can sometimes be made available to patrolling Park Police, so if you're a hiker who's been a "problem" at a shelter the night before, you might be questioned the next day when you take a break at a Wayside, picnic area, Skyline Drive overlook, etc. Ridgerunners also have to fill out some paperwork for each week, and these less than felony incidents may appear then.

If there is a major problem, they do indeed use their radios to call in NPS law enforcement officers who have the power to make a Federal arrest. I don't believe this happens often, but it can and has happened.

Most of the ridgerunners I've met are not egomaniacs or wannabe cops. They try to fit into the hiker scene, using their knowledge and insight, and provide valuable assistance to backpackers, dayhikers, and tourists. Some have been past thru-hikers or section hikers. They will sometimes correct someone who is doing something that hurts the environment, the resources, or fellow hikers. Their approach is usually friendly at first. If it escalates to acrimony, it is most often the doing of the hiker--not the ridgerunner.

Of course there are exceptions to these good ridgerunners. Far and few between exceptions.

sliderule
04-03-2009, 16:48
Don't knock it till you tried it....................


I have tried it. (Which is not to say that I was knocking anything.) My comments were based on first-hand experience.

How about you? Do you have any actual experience in the GRSM? Or are you just so naturally insightful that you just "know" how things are on the basis of nothing whatsoever?

Slo-go'en
04-03-2009, 17:15
Sometimes when you see someone doing something which they really shouldn't be doing, you have to step up to the plate and say something.

For example, I happended on a hiker building a fire in the horse camping area above Tri-Corner knob shelter last spring. Not a big deal, except for the location he choose to do it at - directly on the ground duff, leaf litter all about, directly under some low branch pine trees, no rocks to contain it and pretty close to some tents.

I went over and explained to him why he shouldn't be making a fire there and pointed out if a park ranger or ridge runner should happened to come by, he could be in some serious trouble. Thankfully, once I spoke up, several other hikers backed me up and the hiker in question didn't put up a fuss and put the fire out.

saimyoji
04-03-2009, 19:13
I have tried it. (Which is not to say that I was knocking anything.) My comments were based on first-hand experience.

How about you? Do you have any actual experience in the GRSM? Or are you just so naturally insightful that you just "know" how things are on the basis of nothing whatsoever?


MM has a history of being exactly what he is accusing you of. Its like arguing with a snow cone. Best to ignore him.

The Mechanical Man
04-03-2009, 19:54
MM has a history of being exactly what he is accusing you of. Its like arguing with a snow cone. Best to ignore him.

This isn't a bash MM thread.
This thread is about ridgerunners being bullys, you cannot stick to the subject, so please go elsewhere if you want to cause your form of trouble.

ed bell
04-03-2009, 20:23
Sometimes when you see someone doing something which they really shouldn't be doing, you have to step up to the plate and say something.

For example, I happended on a hiker building a fire in the horse camping area above Tri-Corner knob shelter last spring. Not a big deal, except for the location he choose to do it at - directly on the ground duff, leaf litter all about, directly under some low branch pine trees, no rocks to contain it and pretty close to some tents.

I went over and explained to him why he shouldn't be making a fire there and pointed out if a park ranger or ridge runner should happened to come by, he could be in some serious trouble. Thankfully, once I spoke up, several other hikers backed me up and the hiker in question didn't put up a fuss and put the fire out.I'm a big live and let live kinda guy, but I agree with Slo on this. I rarely end up camping in an area where I would be sharing room with strangers, but there have been a couple of times when I've ended up with neighbors who can't seem to follow the fire rules or restrictions. The way I approached it when I spoke up was more of an informative tone then a patronizing, or authoritative one. It worked.

saimyoji
04-03-2009, 20:25
This isn't a bash MM thread.
This thread is about ridgerunners being bullys, you cannot stick to the subject, so please go elsewhere if you want to cause your form of trouble.

no, you accused slo of being a bully. you brought bashing and personal attacks into this thread. now you're playing the victim true to form. at least you're consistent.

Alligator
04-03-2009, 20:45
Never saw any ridgerunners when we passed through the Smokies. When do they operate? We passed through in Sept.

We did pass a couple of researchers I think it was coming up to Clingman's Dome.

saimyoji
04-03-2009, 20:52
didn't we have a similar discussion some time ago....

here it is:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9975&highlight=barney+fife

didymus128
04-03-2009, 21:03
i met a ridgerunner at gsm about a month ago, just trying to pass by a shelter and the man WOULD NOT SHUT UP. I had no intention of staying there or even stopping there but he questioned me about where I had camped, where I planned to camp the next night, where I was washing my dishes, and on and on and on.

rickb
04-03-2009, 21:04
That's not right.

ed bell
04-03-2009, 21:26
i met a ridgerunner at gsm about a month ago, just trying to pass by a shelter and the man WOULD NOT SHUT UP. I had no intention of staying there or even stopping there but he questioned me about where I had camped, where I planned to camp the next night, where I was washing my dishes, and on and on and on.Hmmmm, did you answer the questions? No way I would stop for a non uniformed ridgerunner acting like that. I'm surprised he didn't ask for your permit considering the line of questioning that was being asked. Now if I was simply asked about my permit, I would have obliged. I won't be lectured if I'm minding my business. No way.

papa john
04-03-2009, 21:47
i ain't talkin' about no park. i'm sayin' ridgerunners generally don't carry radios. just cell phones that don't work most times anyway

This thread is about RR in the GSMNP not RR on other parts of the trail. I agree, regular RR don't carry radios.

didymus128
04-03-2009, 21:51
Hmmmm, did you answer the questions? No way I would stop for a non uniformed ridgerunner acting like that. I'm surprised he didn't ask for your permit considering the line of questioning that was being asked. Now if I was simply asked about my permit, I would have obliged. I won't be lectured if I'm minding my business. No way.

i told him we had stayed at a campsite the night before, which apparently is a campsite where you are supposed to reserve, which we didn't. I explained to him that had someone showed up and said they had a reservation, i would have moved. from there he went on to ask about everything under the sun...including where we had parked. never said anything about a permit though. His name was Carl

ed bell
04-04-2009, 01:25
i told him we had stayed at a campsite the night before, which apparently is a campsite where you are supposed to reserve, which we didn't. I explained to him that had someone showed up and said they had a reservation, i would have moved. from there he went on to ask about everything under the sun...including where we had parked. never said anything about a permit though. His name was CarlWith all due respect, you can't camp overnight anywhere you please, whenever you please in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park without making reservations. You get a permit when you show up at one of the ranger stations to check in before you start your trip. Many people, myself included, make arrangements months in advance to stay at the campsites/shelters in the Smokys. While it might seem like a pain in the ass, that is the way the rules are set up. Now that I have heard your side, I'm not surprised that the fellow you ran into asked a bunch of questions. You were lucky to have avoided being fined for camping illegally upon arriving back at your vehicle. You know, even when folks play by the rules it always can be compromised by folks who disregard the rules. I can't do anything about that except go in winter (which is what I do) or avoid going there. That sucks, but I can, and do, go elsewhere. What is really a shame is that people play by the rules and have to deal with additional folks who disregard the rules. Lots of folks plan vacations and travel lots of miles to backpack in the Smokys. I wish it could be handled differently, but it is the most popular National Park in the US.

didymus128
04-04-2009, 01:36
i wouldnt tell him where i parked. we arrived the first day at like 3:00 a.m. and just got on the trail. not ideal but we werent carrying a permit. i actually just recenly found out that a reservation is supposed to be made. i've been backpacking there for a long time and never made a reservation, although i usually stay off the at to avoid annoying ridgerunners. if he was a ranger, sure ask all the questions you want, but i'm walking quietly through the woods, not even trying to stop and talk to you, so dont get in my way and start asking questions looking for something to lecture me about.

Wise Old Owl
04-04-2009, 06:37
Last guy giving hikers problems on the AT was not a ridge-runner, but a Law Enforcement Ranger. I guess enough guys were being problems to get one to hike out. I'd LOVE to get that job. Paid to hike.


Won't be much pay and there's lots of paperwork, from time to time I see the posts for openings on the internet. Where's that resume'?

Wise Old Owl
04-04-2009, 06:44
In SNP, our seasonal ridgerunners are paid. They work 10 out of 14 days. Much of that time is spent on the Trail, sleeping at or near shelters. They also participate in special educational and recreational events throughout their season.

The SNP ridgerunners DO carry a radio and can be in contact with the COM Center from almost everywhere on the AT. Unless they've been replaced by a lighter version recently, they weigh more than most currently popular solo tents.

The ridgerunners often stay in contact once or twice per day as a routine matter using these radios. During their check-in, they may or may not mention infractions that are less than a felony. That info can sometimes be made available to patrolling Park Police, so if you're a hiker who's been a "problem" at a shelter the night before, you might be questioned the next day when you take a break at a Wayside, picnic area, Skyline Drive overlook, etc. Ridgerunners also have to fill out some paperwork for each week, and these less than felony incidents may appear then.

If there is a major problem, they do indeed use their radios to call in NPS law enforcement officers who have the power to make a Federal arrest. I don't believe this happens often, but it can and has happened.

Most of the ridgerunners I've met are not egomaniacs or wannabe cops. They try to fit into the hiker scene, using their knowledge and insight, and provide valuable assistance to backpackers, dayhikers, and tourists. Some have been past thru-hikers or section hikers. They will sometimes correct someone who is doing something that hurts the environment, the resources, or fellow hikers. Their approach is usually friendly at first. If it escalates to acrimony, it is most often the doing of the hiker--not the ridgerunner.

Of course there are exceptions to these good ridgerunners. Far and few between exceptions.

So I take it you have a scanner and enjoy listening??? Cool. But from your description, its a thankless job. If someone approched me and started asking a lot of questions,,,, Well lets just say I wouldn't like it at all.

Remember this? http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=782106&postcount=25

nufsaid
04-04-2009, 07:03
i met a ridgerunner at gsm about a month ago, just trying to pass by a shelter and the man WOULD NOT SHUT UP. I had no intention of staying there or even stopping there but he questioned me about where I had camped, where I planned to camp the next night, where I was washing my dishes, and on and on and on.

My guess is he may have been aware of your history of camping there. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=48718

Instead of being indignant of being questioned, maybe you should have asked about park regulations.

4eyedbuzzard
04-04-2009, 08:25
Given the recent incidents of violence on/near the trail, and just the way society is these days, do any of the ridge runners now have official ID of any kind? If you're going to ask people questions/direct people what to do, etc, in an official sense it would sure help to have ID to prove who you are and who you represent. After all, there are people on the AT who claim to be the Queen of England (not her jurisdiction, but you get my drift)...

Times have changed a lot. I don't tend to answer a lot of questions unless I really know who I'm dealing with.

Rockhound
04-04-2009, 08:46
Every now and then a person is given limited power and responsibility and they choose to abuse it. Often the result is negative both to that person and all those they have contact with. This is the exception of course but it does happen.

papa john
04-04-2009, 08:47
Given the recent incidents of violence on/near the trail, and just the way society is these days, do any of the ridge runners now have official ID of any kind? If you're going to ask people questions/direct people what to do, etc, in an official sense it would sure help to have ID to prove who you are and who you represent. After all, there are people on the AT who claim to be the Queen of England (not her jurisdiction, but you get my drift)...

Times have changed a lot. I don't tend to answer a lot of questions unless I really know who I'm dealing with.

in the GSMNP, they wear a semi-uniform. If I remember right, they do have a patch that says something about their status as a trailrunner. They are easy to spot, especially Jim. He is a good guy to talk to and he will give you really good info on weather, water, etc. I think he's in his late 60s or early 70s.

Egads
04-04-2009, 08:52
i told him we had stayed at a campsite the night before, which apparently is a campsite where you are supposed to reserve, which we didn't. I explained to him that had someone showed up and said they had a reservation, i would have moved. from there he went on to ask about everything under the sun...including where we had parked. never said anything about a permit though. His name was Carl

You break the rules, get reprimanded, and wanna complain about it? Accept the consequences like a man, however minimal they were.

4eyedbuzzard
04-04-2009, 09:01
in the GSMNP, they wear a semi-uniform. If I remember right, they do have a patch that says something about their status as a trailrunner. They are easy to spot, especially Jim. He is a good guy to talk to and he will give you really good info on weather, water, etc. I think he's in his late 60s or early 70s.

I haven't hiked in GSMNP in years but I read an article on Jim and know they have a shirt/patch, etc in GSMNP. I'm more thinking along the lines of a secure ID tag/card. People kind of expect that these days when dealing with anyone who has any official capacity even if it seems obvious to many of us. It mostly has to do the the "questioning"--many people have been warned to intentionally lie about who they're with, where they're camping, etc. Does an informal uniform and patch cut it from an ID standpoint, especially in weather where outergarments are being worn?

sliderule
04-04-2009, 10:45
I haven't hiked in GSMNP in years but I read an article on Jim and know they have a shirt/patch, etc in GSMNP. I'm more thinking along the lines of a secure ID tag/card. People kind of expect that these days when dealing with anyone who has any official capacity even if it seems obvious to many of us. It mostly has to do the the "questioning"--many people have been warned to intentionally lie about who they're with, where they're camping, etc. Does an informal uniform and patch cut it from an ID standpoint, especially in weather where outergarments are being worn?

Would it make you happy if the Ridgerunner was required to read a hiker his Miranda rights before he said "hello?" What would you do if a fellow hiker asked you about your hike? Ask for his "secure ID?"

rickb
04-04-2009, 10:49
Would it make you happy if the Ridgerunner was required to read a hiker his Miranda rights before he said "hello?" What would you do if a fellow hiker asked you about your hike? Ask for his "secure ID?"

"It's better that 10 guilty stealth campers go free than one innocent permit holding backpacker be wrongly badgered."

Or something like that. ;)

papa john
04-04-2009, 11:46
I haven't hiked in GSMNP in years but I read an article on Jim and know they have a shirt/patch, etc in GSMNP. I'm more thinking along the lines of a secure ID tag/card. People kind of expect that these days when dealing with anyone who has any official capacity even if it seems obvious to many of us. It mostly has to do the the "questioning"--many people have been warned to intentionally lie about who they're with, where they're camping, etc. Does an informal uniform and patch cut it from an ID standpoint, especially in weather where outergarments are being worn?

I can't remember if he had some form of ID on or not. I knew who he was the instant I saw him walking my way on the trail.

A-Train
04-04-2009, 12:14
I haven't hiked in GSMNP in years but I read an article on Jim and know they have a shirt/patch, etc in GSMNP. I'm more thinking along the lines of a secure ID tag/card. People kind of expect that these days when dealing with anyone who has any official capacity even if it seems obvious to many of us. It mostly has to do the the "questioning"--many people have been warned to intentionally lie about who they're with, where they're camping, etc. Does an informal uniform and patch cut it from an ID standpoint, especially in weather where outergarments are being worn?

I don't remember having anything official, other than a membership card to the club. Usually the hat with "AT ridgerunner", t-shirt with AT ridgerunner, ATC and trail club patch and the state police radio was a give away. Our society is full of imposters, but in the woods we usually hope that faith and trust will prevail. If you are pretending to be a RR well, lets just leave it at that...:D

Skyline
04-06-2009, 00:45
So I take it you have a scanner and enjoy listening??? Cool. But from your description, its a thankless job. If someone approched me and started asking a lot of questions,,,, Well lets just say I wouldn't like it at all.

Remember this? http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=782106&postcount=25



Scanner? Yes. Listen often? No.

My factual info comes directly from knowing several ridgerunners and SNP Law Enforcement Rangers over the past almost two decades.

The life of a ridgerunner demands a certain type of person apply and be hired. IMHO the ATC and its partners usually make pretty good decisions.

I wouldn't last a week. But then I'd never apply. :D

SGT Rock
04-06-2009, 19:39
Never saw any ridgerunners when we passed through the Smokies. When do they operate? We passed through in Sept.

We did pass a couple of researchers I think it was coming up to Clingman's Dome.
Usually starts in March sometime. I think they end in August, but don't quote me on that as fact.

SGT Rock
04-06-2009, 19:43
in the GSMNP, they wear a semi-uniform. If I remember right, they do have a patch that says something about their status as a trailrunner. They are easy to spot, especially Jim. He is a good guy to talk to and he will give you really good info on weather, water, etc. I think he's in his late 60s or early 70s.

The guy I've met a few times doesn't alwasy walk around in the uniform. I was walking down Shuckstack March 2007 and saw a familiar looking guy coming up the trail with a shirt drapped over his pack and an antenna sticking up out of it. He saw me, put his pack down, and started putting the shirt on.

I told him I'd met him before and seen some of his entries in the shelter logs. He asked where I stayed, where I was going, where I parked, etc. All the standard stuff. We said goodbye, nothing odd or special.

Last year in April I saw him again at Fontanna Village washing clothing. We talked some more. I was in the air splint fresh off from the AT in VA. We talked thru hiking a while - he knows his stuff. I belive this year he is out west doing the PCT so someone new is holding down his section this year.