Any Other Brown/Non-Caucasian Thru-Hikers?

[EverydayJourneyman]

Over the years, I've grown strangely accustomed to being the only person of colour doing the things that I love to do (spelunking, mountaineering, adventuring).

But by chance, are there any other folks like me in the 2009 class? :sun

[maxNcathy]

I am like you. I like adventuring and get very dark skinned by autumn.

[EverydayJourneyman]

I am like you. I like adventuring and get very dark skinned by autumn.

That counts! :D

[UnkaJesse]

Over the years, I've grown strangely accustomed to being the only person of colour doing the things that I love to do (spelunking, mountaineering, adventuring).

But by chance, are there any other folks like me in the 2009 class? :sun

Fantastic question. Although I'll get pretty tanned by the end of the summer, not now. What made me respond was that several years ago I read an excellent article in Outside on this very topic. When I just now searched for it, I realized it was over eleven years ago. The fact that I still remember it tells you how much of an impact it had on me.

The author is a black man and the story is about his being -- most often -- the only person of color outdoors. Take a few minutes and read through it. I think you'll find it worth your time. Since reading this article all those years ago, it's been confirmed for me many times on my mountain bike, hiking, scuba diving and ski slopes.

Here's the link.....http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/1297/9712solo.html

[traildust]

Surely things have changed since this article was written. Then again, probably not. Sadly. Can't remember where I saw it but I read an article somewhere that talked about how some group was working hard to encourage minorities to take up outdoor activities. It was presented not so much as a matter of race but more a matter of health and lifestyle.

[Tipi Walter]

I was doing a part of the AT in 2006 and at the Cable Gap shelter I read an entry by a guy with the trailname OB MOAT. Only Black Man On Appalachian Trail.

[Slo-go'en]

We had a camp fire discussion one night on the trail last year about the lack of racial diversity on the trail. No conclusion was reached. Some sort of social/economic thing? For what ever reason, hiking seems to be predominately a white mans hobby. At least on the AT.

I think I can count on one hand the number of hikers "of color" I've meet on the trail over the years who weren't part of an outward bound or hoods in the woods type program.

[drastic_quench]

Fantastic question. Although I'll get pretty tanned by the end of the summer, not now. What made me respond was that several years ago I read an excellent article in Outside on this very topic. When I just now searched for it, I realized it was over eleven years ago. The fact that I still remember it tells you how much of an impact it had on me.

The author is a black man and the story is about his being -- most often -- the only person of color outdoors. Take a few minutes and read through it. I think you'll find it worth your time. Since reading this article all those years ago, it's been confirmed for me many times on my mountain bike, hiking, scuba diving and ski slopes.

Here's the link.....http://outside.away.com/outside/magazine/1297/9712solo.html
Thanks for that link. I might pick up one of his books.

[maxNcathy]

Seems like African brothers and sisters have walked for centuries..maybe they are just sick and tired of it.

[TJ aka Teej]

Let's see... Winston, way back in the '80s, and there was that Hispanic young lady in a tennis skirt hiking with a dog, and good ol' Sarge, and Xenon, and the young man who worked at the Salem NH EMS after his sobo a few years back, and Haiku, and FlufferNutter (?), and well not that many, really. The photo albums in Harpers Ferry a few years back were a disappointment to my daughter's two Dominican hiking pals.

[JAK]

I'm not that fond of fly fishing but I am very fond of wilderness. I don't understand why more people don't enjoy it. I don't understand why I don't enjoy it more often. I find it difficult enough to get myself and my daughter to go as often as I should. Can't think of much more despicable than discouraging folks from doing so, yet it happens, in various ways, no doubt. Up here in New Brunswick is far from being any exception to this uglier side of human nature. Worse than barring a child from school or church in my opinion.


Valley-Folk
- Fred Cogswell

O narrow is the house where we are born,
And narrow are the fileds in whick we labour,
Fenced in by rails and woods that low hills neighbour
Lest they should spill their crops of hay or corn.
O narrow are the hates with which we thorn
Each other's flesh by gossip of the Grundies,
And narrow are our roads to church on Sundays,
And narrow too the vows of love we've sworn.

But through our fields the Saint John River flows
And mocks the patterned fields that we enclose;
There sometimes pausing in the dusty heat
We stretch cramped backs and lean upon our hoes
To watch a sea-gull glide with lazy beat
To wider regions where the river goes.

[Jim Adams]

2002, Rockytop. Got his "load" sorted out at Neel's Gap and turned into a hiking machine.

geek

[the goat]

"no pain" is a black dude who's done the trail multiple times.

[EverydayJourneyman]

Thanks for the link UnkaJesse. :)

I remember doing a week of adventuring out west about a year and a half ago, some sea kayaking in the Puget Sound, climbing on Mt Rainer, hiking in Olympic National. I was asked during dinner one night why I was doing these things, considering my ethnic background (I'm a Brit by birth, mum's from Germany with a French dad, Greek and Egyptian on my father's side of things).

I couldn't help but think of the old famous George Mallory quote when he was asked "why do you want to climb Mt. Everest." His answer, "because it's there."

It's impossible to not notice the lack of diversity and it is somewhat disheartening but perhaps in a small way I can encourages others to give it a try.

[RITBlake]

Seems like African brothers and sisters have walked for centuries..maybe they are just sick and tired of it.

And white people did what exactly.....ride on their hover boards?

[Pony]

The January-February issue of Journeys had an article you may be interested in. It's called Come Together and it's about a program to get "people of color" into the great outdoors. Pretty good article.

[sliderule]

Sounds like we need a new federal program to "encourage" diversity on the trail. Maybe a stimulus package for first-time minority hikers. Or a quota system. "Sorry, sir. There are only two slots left for the Icewater Springs shelter on May 2nd. And you must be an Asian/Pacific Islander to get one."

[Slimer]

LMAO!!!!
sliderule, your comment made me spew tea all over my laptop.
Sadly though, this could actually be a future policy.

[EverydayJourneyman]

"Sorry, sir. There are only two slots left for the Icewater Springs shelter on May 2nd. And you must be an Asian/Pacific Islander to get one."

Hmmm, I know just the Maori!

[sheepdog]

I've seen quite a few Asian hikers, never any black hikers. On the bright side I doubt race would be an issue with other hikers.

[Tuna]

Had the same campfire discussion about race when I was on the trail, as in - where's everyone else?

But I don't think it is just an AT thing or a U.S thing. Here in the U.K our cities are splendidly multi-cultural, but go out hiking in the nearest bit of countryside and the only non-white faces you'll see will be belong to the members of the armed forces who are training out there.

Same, in my experience, in France and Holland. Go adventuring and everyone out there with you is white.

[EverydayJourneyman]

Had the same campfire discussion about race when I was on the trail, as in - where's everyone else?

But I don't think it is just an AT thing or a U.S thing. Here in the U.K our cities are splendidly multi-cultural, but go out hiking in the nearest bit of countryside and the only non-white faces you'll see will be belong to the members of the armed forces who are training out there.

Same, in my experience, in France and Holland. Go adventuring and everyone out there with you is white.

True enough, I had the same experiences in New Zealand. Mostly white Europeans when I trekked Franz Josef glacier.

[Johnny Thunder]

We had a camp fire discussion one night on the trail last year about the lack of racial diversity on the trail. No conclusion was reached. Some sort of social/economic thing? For what ever reason, hiking seems to be predominately a white mans hobby. At least on the AT.

I think I can count on one hand the number of hikers "of color" I've meet on the trail over the years who weren't part of an outward bound or hoods in the woods type program.

I remember that conversation and the most salient of points (made by Keychain) is the one that sticks with me. He basically said that for a younger person to decide to hike the trail they had to be introduced to the outdoors at some point in their upbringing. It becomes a self-perpetuating divide.

Interestingly enough, his theory accounted for why the vast majority of young hikers come from similar backgrounds.

[Blissful]

In '07 I saw an Asian named Speedo (I think was his name) And then there was an African American girl hanging out in Monson at Shaws, don't know how much she was hiking. Met another African American hiker at Trail Days in '06 doing a section and she was showing me her gregory deva pack. Wish there were more out there.

[JAK]

It would probably be most fruitful to consider first why more people don't spend more time outdoors regardless of ethnicity. We could also ask why more people don't play chess, or swim, but something about hiking and camping in the woods is a little different than those other recreational activities, more fundamental, even primaeval, depending on how we go about it. I suppose if we treat it like something you have to get special equipment and training than we are just treating it like any other consumer liesure activity, then it is not surprising why some do and some don't. That's just marketing.

The real question might be how many people that are out there are really out there.
How many people actually 'get it'. Who's to say really.

[JAK]

I've sailed all my life; competitive, recreational, and the adventure kind.

Very few black people sail, for various reasons.

Thing is, most white people don't sail either, and the vast majority of those that do I have very little in common with. Most are into it for different reasons than me. The few black people I have bumped into along the way I did seem to have more in common with, which is interesting, but there weren't alot of cases. I did meet alot of folks from other countries, like India and Turkey and other places. That tended to be competitive small boat stuff and when I was younger, when it was easier to share things in common. It was more after I got older that I have found it harder to mix with other folks that call themselves sailers. They are sailers in their own way, I guess. Same with skiing. I enjoy the thrill of the hill, but I don't get all the fuss over clothing and ****.

Maybe I'm not white enough.

[JAK]

I think the nearest truth is that there are lots of different sorts of people, and sorts of people that hike and camp, but very few that seem to do it for the same reasons as I do. I would just like to see more people like me hike, or at least more people doing it for the same reasons as me. That would be nice, at least for me anyways. When you're a misfit ethnicity isn't a very good indicator of the type of person people are likely to be is all I'm saying. Pehaps blacks that do hike are more likely to be misfits because fewer blacks hike, and therefore more likely to have something in common with me. Not sure. I don't run into alot of Native hikers and adventurers either. Perhaps I just need to get out more. When you hike solo mostly, and prefer off the beaten trail and off season, you don't tend to bump into that many people regardless.

[EverydayJourneyman]

All good points. And first and foremost, I think being a AT hiker is a very strong commonality.

I'm fairly colourblind off hours but when it comes to recreation or even work, it's always a wee bit more comfortable to be around those that are like you, it's an extra bonus. Whether its race, gender, sexuality, age,...

I spent 3 very long years working for NASCAR so I speak from experience. :D

[JAK]

Or maybe everyone is a misfit.


George Ernst
- Fred Cogswell

George Ernst went in for horses all his life.
Though he was poor, no matter how things went
He kept the best team in the settlement,
Bit-keen and mated for the hauler's strife.
He'd never let a blacksmith use a knife
But pared their hoofs as if those hoofs were gold;
They ate more oats and hay than what he sold.
Men said he loved them better than his wife.

He paid nine hundred dollars' interest
Upon a thousand dollar loan; then pressed,
He had to sell his team to save his lands.
While dealers dickered and the sheriff sold,
He stood and gripped their bridled in his hands.
I never saw a man who looked so old.

[UnkaJesse]

I'm not a fan, but it restores my faith in humanity to think that a Brit/German/French/Greek/Egyptian can get a job with Nascar.

[flemdawg1]

Maybe hiking is just a white thing.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/9-making-you-feel-bad-about-not-going-outside/

[EverydayJourneyman]

I'm not a fan, but it restores my faith in humanity to think that a Brit/German/French/Greek/Egyptian can get a job with Nascar.

Upside, I was always easy to find on stage (the brown guy next to the beautiful non-brown woman)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/loyalfromlondon/delete2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v233/loyalfromlondon/b3de9bd0.jpg

[vamelungeon]

I belong to a group of Appalachian mixed race people called "melungeons" but I look like any other dark skinned white guy.

[JAK]

This one I particularly like because my one Native American ancestor was one Sarah Ann Stover, the daughter of a Peter Stover, who I don't know much about but would like to think he was a guy like Sam.


Sam Stover
- Fred Cogswell

When his day's work was done, Sam hardly ever
Did anything but whittle like a fool.
He's sit there, making not some useful tool
Like an axe handle, but queer things you'd never
See the like of, though some folks thought them clever.
He never liked my watching while he worked,
And how he acted once when he was irked
Comes back to me as clear today as ever.

'What are you whittling, Sam?' 'A girl,' he said.
I looked at it: 'A girl? But where is she?'
'I have here here all right,' he tapped his head,
'But she won't go into the wood for me.'
'Why don't you take her picture, work from that?'
He looked and looked at me, and then he spat.

[Lone Wolf]

Over the years, I've grown strangely accustomed to being the only person of colour doing the things that I love to do (spelunking, mountaineering, adventuring).

But by chance, are there any other folks like me in the 2009 class? :sun

what color are you?

[EverydayJourneyman]

what color are you?

Like a chai, with a bit of foam.

[Lone Wolf]

and a chai is?

[EverydayJourneyman]

and a chai is?

a spiced indian tea (quite tasty as well).

I kid, I kid.

According to Home Depot's paint aisle, I'm a mixture of Ochre and Sienna. Basically Chai.

[Cookerhiker]

If I judged from my first backpack trip, I would have expected more African Americans on the Trail. That first trip way back in '77 covered Rt. 30 south to Rt. 9 n Vermont. On the second night at Story Spring Shelter, there were 2 guys from Albany - Art and Pete. Art was black and seemed to be the more knowledgable and experienced of the 2.

I didn't think too much about it at the time but since then, I've hardly seen any minorities on overnight backpacks.

[double d]

I think the issue of race reflects culture. Think of hockey, not too many play the sport, but its almost 100% white world wide, but think basketball, baseball and football and you see alot of black folks. Soccer, don't see to many black folks from the U.S. either, but watch international soccer and you see alot of black Africans playing.

[Tinker]

I don't think there's much of an awareness among white people as to what is "white" to do or not. I have noticed among non-whites that there is a tendency to look down upon a fellow non-white for doing "white" things. Hiking may be among those things. Before I quit downhill skiing in the 1990s I noticed more and more non-white folks on the slopes. I figured it would just take time for other groups to break whatever manmade "barrier" there was. I hope to see the same with hiking and other outdoor sports. Hiking, walking, swimming, biking, canoeing, etc. are all wonderful fitness-enhancing sports which can benefit anyone willing to give them a try.

[joeboxer]

I'm brown! :D Half filipino specifically

[Kanati]

Over the years, I've grown strangely accustomed to being the only person of colour doing the things that I love to do (spelunking, mountaineering, adventuring).

But by chance, are there any other folks like me in the 2009 class? :sun


Here are some approximates which may shed some light on why you don't encounter many people of color, (assuming you are African-American) while you are pursuing your favorite sports. Again these are just some approximate figures. And, I'm sure there are more scientific ways of arriving at more accurate data, but here goes.

Population of the U.S. +/- 300,000,000

Percent African-American, ( +/-10%) 3,000,000

X percent that enjoy hiking, mountainering, etc. (+/-5%) 150,000

Divide by the number of states (50) 3,000


Divide by the number of days in a year (365) = 8.0219 persons per day
using the trails & mountains of any state.

You are not alone, but rare.

I'm not as rare as you but not far behind. I have red hair. We were the ones that the Japanese cut the heads off for sport using their samurai swords during the Bataan death march in WWII, and that's why I don't buy their damn automobiles !!!

Pun intended. :banana

Happy hiking.

[mudcap]

So... what does this thread have to do with hiking The AT ? Who gives a crap about color? or lack of color ?

[sliderule]

Population of the U.S. +/- 300,000,000

Percent African-American, ( +/-10%) 3,000,000



What percentage of AT hikers can't do simple arithmetic?

[RITBlake]

What percentage of AT hikers can't do simple arithmetic?

fair point

[Lone Wolf]

So... what does this thread have to do with hiking The AT ? Who gives a crap about color? or lack of color ?

birds of a feather like to flock together

[Powder River]

Here are some approximates which may shed some light on why you don't encounter many people of color, (assuming you are African-American) while you are pursuing your favorite sports. Again these are just some approximate figures. And, I'm sure there are more scientific ways of arriving at more accurate data, but here goes.

Population of the U.S. +/- 300,000,000

Percent African-American, ( +/-10%) 3,000,000

X percent that enjoy hiking, mountainering, etc. (+/-5%) 150,000

Divide by the number of states (50) 3,000


Divide by the number of days in a year (365) = 8.0219 persons per day
using the trails & mountains of any state.

You are not alone, but rare.

I'm not as rare as you but not far behind. I have red hair. We were the ones that the Japanese cut the heads off for sport using their samurai swords during the Bataan death march in WWII, and that's why I don't buy their damn automobiles !!!

Pun intended. :banana

Happy hiking.

Yeah, except Maine is 1.02% black. Maine is the "whitest" state in the U.S., and has 1.3 million total people. So that's 650 african americans in the state of Maine that enjoy hiking. (according to the 5% theory) If they each went one day out of the year, you would have 2 of them hiking somewhere on any given day.

Georgia is 30.29% black. Given a population of 4.6 million, there should be 69,000 african americans in Georgia who enjoy hiking. So if they each went for one day a year, there would be 189 of them out enjoying the woods each day.

And this is not counting other minority groups. In 179 days on the AT, I met 2 people on the trail of a different color. Now I could have been just missing all of the other people by one or two days, but somehow I doubt it. There is obviously no magic formula that you can apply to all cultural groups, for any given activity. It is culture. Why are most hockey players white? Why are most basketball players black? Why don't Americans play cricket? Why won't the English learn to spell correctly?

Also, there is geography to think about. If large percentages of the minority populations live in urban areas, (and I can't find this figure) then what exposure will they really have to the outdoors? There was a kid from Florida who, after I told him I was going to hike for six months for Georgia to Maine, he asked what road I was taking and why I didn't just drive. There are kids that grow up in the city and never see the mountains, or step foot in a wilderness area. The concept of a foot path through the woods was foreign to this kid.

[EverydayJourneyman]

Kanati, you're a ginger!

Thanks for the formula. Though I'm not African-American the data is interesting.

[Homer&Marje]

Marje is from El Salvador and I find that when we are hiking she is the only one of "color" within a hundred miles....never bothers us...never had a problem because of it.

Although, it's funny that I just got back from NH and for the first time we felt....kind of out of place. Thanks to the lady at Frescolones pizza shop on RT 3 in Lincoln NH. First person....EVER.....in the 12 years we have been a couple did someone say to my wife...."Tell me, Are you Mexican or somethin??"

Un-freakin real. Then when she was told that she was actually in fact from El Salvador the reply was..... "Well I was close enough, but your Spanish right?"

Then she went off on a tangent on how bad 3rd world countries are and she knows someones daughter that ruined her life by marrying a mexican guy....and....and ARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS!!!

Thank god....and I am an atheist....that pizza cooks in 12 minutes. I could not deal with much more than that....

I think she held a book burning that night.

[JAK]

I think the issue of race reflects culture. Think of hockey, not too many play the sport, but its almost 100% white world wide, but think basketball, baseball and football and you see alot of black folks. Soccer, don't see to many black folks from the U.S. either, but watch international soccer and you see alot of black Africans playing.Considering the population of Blacks in hockey playing countries, Blacks have been fairly reasonably well represented in hockey, as have Native Canadians, despite many years of racial barriers. My point is that it wasn't for lack of them trying to break in.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_black_NHL_players

Hiking is not a white man sport. Not the sort of hiking I do anyway. It is universal. Where there is nature, people of all ethnicity are naturally drawn to it. If you want to slice and dice it and put labels and bells and whistles on it, like orienteering, or backpacking, or thru-hiking, or adventure racing, or other marketing **** like that, then you are going to find it divided, but those are human labels, like race. They ain't real. They are just useful generalizations for certain purposes, useful sometimes but not all good.

Where there is people and nature there are people walking through nature.
What they do with it and how they interpret it varies, but not with colour.

[JAK]

Deacon Johnson
- Fred Cogswell

Old Deacon Johnson gave no grouindhog board
Upon his farm; he'd root them out with water,
Earth up their holes, and set dogs to the slaughter,
Though he was kindly in both act and word.
It seemed each spring a flood of rodents poured
Upon his land to sink their shafts in clay,
But no one laughed in meeting when he'd pray,
'No more torment me with thy groundhogs, Lord.'

For all of us assembled understood
The Deacon's hate of groundhogs and his dread
Remembering how, beside the Monquart Wood,
Aiming where fog and forest overlap,
He lightly thought to shoot a groundhog's head
And put a bullet through his brother's cap.

[JAK]

First Black Player in the NHL was Willy O'Ree, from Fredericton New Brunswick.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willie_O%27Ree

The article doesn't mention that it was harder for a black man
to get a haircut in our provincial capital
than to play hockey in the NHL with only one eye.

[JAK]

New Brunswick

Before it takes the air in greener shoots
A seed is nurtured by surrounding soil
And patterned by whatever streams can coil
Where worms and borers worked their slow pursuits;
And though it wills to grow a crown that fruits
In skies where lightning strikes and thunders clap,
It can't escape the source that feeds its sap:
No tree belies its soil, outgrows its roots.

Not soft the soil where we took root together;
It grew not giants but the stunted strong,
Toughened by suns and bleak wintry weather
To grow up slow and to endure for long;
We have not gained to any breadth or length,
And all our beauty is our stubborn strength.

Fred Cogswell
The Stunted Strong (1954)

[TJ aka Teej]

there was that Hispanic young lady in a tennis skirt hiking with a dog, ... the young man who worked at the Salem NH EMS after his sobo a few years back, .... and FlufferNutter
Make that: Solophile, BarrelRoll, and NutterButter.

TJ < mind like a steel trap, rusted shut and out-of-date :D

[Lobo]

"Harriet Tubman" completed a Thru in 2000. See photo p. 17 in ATN May-June 2001.

[Lobo]

"Harriet Tubman" p.17
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BB8A229E6-1CDC-41B7-A615-2D5911950E45%7D/ATN01May.pdf

[Cookerhiker]

Marje is from El Salvador and I find that when we are hiking she is the only one of "color" within a hundred miles....never bothers us...never had a problem because of it.

Although, it's funny that I just got back from NH and for the first time we felt....kind of out of place. Thanks to the lady at Frescolones pizza shop on RT 3 in Lincoln NH. First person....EVER.....in the 12 years we have been a couple did someone say to my wife...."Tell me, Are you Mexican or somethin??"

Un-freakin real. Then when she was told that she was actually in fact from El Salvador the reply was..... "Well I was close enough, but your Spanish right?"

Then she went off on a tangent on how bad 3rd world countries are and she knows someones daughter that ruined her life by marrying a mexican guy....and....and ARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS!!!

Thank god....and I am an atheist....that pizza cooks in 12 minutes. I could not deal with much more than that....

I think she held a book burning that night.

Didn't you consider walking out right then-and-there? I suppose it was hard to think fast in the face of such blatant bigotry.

The shoe was on the other foot for my GF and me when we spent 3 weeks Feb-March in Mexico and Belize. We spent most of our time in patently non-touristy areas where no one knew English and where not many gringos showed up. My GF has bright blond hair and attracted a lot of attention. But we never had any problems; people were friendly, patient with our (extremely) limited Spanish, and I felt mutual respect.

[Sly]

Some peoples math really sucks.

[JAK]

What is the 5% theory?

[sliderule]

Georgia is 30.29% black. Given a population of 4.6 million, there should be 69,000 african americans in Georgia who enjoy hiking. So if they each went for one day a year, there would be 189 of them out enjoying the woods each day.



Georgia has more than 4.6 million people in metro Atlanta alone!!! The total population for the state is over twice that figure.

According to today's newspaper, MARTA (Atlanta's transit service) is considering cutting service to six days per week. I guess that will increase the level of interest in urban hiking!!!

[Kanati]

What is the 5% theory?

The 5% theory is that about 5 people in a hundred enjoy our type of outdoor sports. The number could be smaller. I travel all over the country in my work and I rarely run into someone who participates in any of our sport. Most people like organized sports. Humbug.

In the grand scheme of sports enthusiast, we, (all of us) are rare. You can actually take pride in that. Anybody can play ball. That's no big deal. But how many people find enjoyment in strapping on a 35-50 pound pack and climbing mountains. Not many.

E-dayJ-man, between GA and ME last year, I met maybe 3 other guys with red hair. I met 2 African-American hikers. So take pride that your sports and those who participate are unique.

I love these WB discussions even if we do stray for the hiking track from time to time.

Happy hiking. :sun

[sliderule]

The 5% theory is that about 5 people in a hundred enjoy our type of outdoor sports. The number could be smaller.

Speaking of theories, could you tell us more about your theory that says that 10% of 300 million is 3 million?

[UnkaJesse]

Maybe minorities are smarter than us?

I was training for a trip to the Wind River Range a few years back by hiking up Kennesaw Mountain in suburban ATL with a 40 pound bag of fertilizer in a daypack. On one of my trips up I ran into what was clearly a group of inner city kids on an outing. Very few white faces in the group....

They were stopped for a break on one of the steepest sections. When I came up at almost a run, they were all interested. I stopped to talk with them for a bit. They wanted to know what I had in that big pack. (Kemo is a day trip....almost no need for even water.) When I told them, they asked almost in unison...."Why? Are you crazy?"

Maybe we are.

[chief]

"Harriet Tubman" completed a Thru in 2000. See photo p. 17 in ATN May-June 2001.Yep, I hiked with/around her in 2000, but not for long, she was a way stronger hiker than me. There was also "Godfather" whom I met about the same time. We at first thought they were hiking together, but that proved not to be the case. I believe he had previously hiked the PCT. Then there was this young asian guy who, when I first saw him, was sitting nekkid in a creek with a topless fat lady. Not what I wanted to see! When I pointed out a snake in the stream, you should have seen all the elbows, ******** and flopping tits. Funny stuff! I seem to remember they were with Warren Doyle's group.

[Kanati]

Speaking of theories, could you tell us more about your theory that says that 10% of 300 million is 3 million?

You got me on that one. I was a business major, not a math major, and I would do better to use a calculator in lieu of my non-math brain. Thanks for the lesson. LOL
:sun

[JAK]

The 5% theory is that about 5 people in a hundred enjoy our type of outdoor sports. The number could be smaller. I travel all over the country in my work and I rarely run into someone who participates in any of our sport. Most people like organized sports. Humbug.

In the grand scheme of sports enthusiast, we, (all of us) are rare. You can actually take pride in that. Anybody can play ball. That's no big deal. But how many people find enjoyment in strapping on a 35-50 pound pack and climbing mountains. Not many.

E-dayJ-man, between GA and ME last year, I met maybe 3 other guys with red hair. I met 2 African-American hikers. So take pride that your sports and those who participate are unique.

I love these WB discussions even if we do stray for the hiking track from time to time.

Happy hiking. :sunI think you are right that it is lower.
I am not sure what constitutes outdoor activity though.

The biggest difference might be rural vs urban rather than ethnicity, but I'm not sure. Amongst urban dwellers it might depend on income level. Again not sure. For all groups though, its pretty darned low I should think. New Brunswick is 50% rural, and even our urban is pretty damned rural by most standards, and not that many people take to the rivers and woods and oceans. When they do, they take alot of baggage with them, like ATVs and RVs and Yachts and special clothing and special labels and excuses. How many families just go for a simple walk or a picnic? Not too many. I blame marketing, but I blame that for everything. Probably something else.

[gaga]

And white people did what exactly.....ride on their hover boards?
well :D RITBlake i don't know what other people did or do, but i know for sure that the Middle Easterners ride the magic flying carpet :D

[Speakeasy]

Very interesting thread. As a woman of color I tend to notice absence of color wherever I go. It does not discourage me and I try not to over analyze it. I just keep an open mind and try not to judge or jump to any conclusions when I meet a new person. The joys of life are out there for everyone - all of them. I just wish more people could find them... Maybe hiking just a nature lovers thing :cool: Happy trails to all who wish to travel them.

Nrvana

[Speakeasy]

Maybe hiking is just a white thing.

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/20/9-making-you-feel-bad-about-not-going-outside/


I would be remiss if I did not respond to this comment. Unfortunately, it is remarks like this that give southern folks a reputation for being racist and ignorant...

Nrvana

[Bootstrap]

I live in North Carolina in an area where the population is about 50% black.

When I hit the AT, or most other trails, suddenly it's lily white everywhere. A few nice exceptions to this: Hanging Rock, NC and Stone Mountain NC have many more blacks than most places.

I generally think the best way to get over racism is to get to know each other. If more people of color start to hike, the trail is a great place to do that.

Jonathan

[mister krabs]

I would be remiss if I did not respond to this comment. Unfortunately, it is remarks like this that give southern folks a reputation for being racist and ignorant...

Nrvana


I'm hoping that like the site the link points to, it's satire. That site is pretty funny, spoken as a white guy who can laugh at himself.

[EverydayJourneyman]

Satirically speaking, that website is one of my favourites around.

Stuff White People Like #120-Taking A Year Off (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2009/01/11/120-taking-a-year-off)

Stuff White People Like #90 - Dinner Parties (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/03/18/88-dinner-parties/)

It's funny because it's kinda true. But I also retired from work last year and I'm taking at least the next year off, so it's also a lie. :D

[mister krabs]

And this one #87 Outdoor Performance Clothes (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/03/11/87-outdoor-performance-clothes/)

[flemdawg1]

I would be remiss if I did not respond to this comment. Unfortunately, it is remarks like this that give southern folks a reputation for being racist and ignorant...

Nrvana

It was a joke/satire, like the site that was linked. Lighten up. :rolleyes:

[Homer&Marje]

Didn't you consider walking out right then-and-there? I suppose it was hard to think fast in the face of such blatant bigotry.

The shoe was on the other foot for my GF and me when we spent 3 weeks Feb-March in Mexico and Belize. We spent most of our time in patently non-touristy areas where no one knew English and where not many gringos showed up. My GF has bright blond hair and attracted a lot of attention. But we never had any problems; people were friendly, patient with our (extremely) limited Spanish, and I felt mutual respect.


I considered it. But I, like you said was a little shocked by it all. It wasn't even the initial comments that got me, but it was the conversations that she rattled on about afterwards....

The "Oh, well if you lived in Mexico again you would miss America I bet ya!"

She must have said that about......8 times in the 14 minutes we were there. Seriously....read a book...culture yourself.

I like to tell people, I'm not racist but I do hate everyone. And I believe that's true, as races, cultures, creeds, religions, and cults we all have things about "each other" that we can't stand. Those are often misconstrued as stereotypes, which they often are, but more often than not the "stereotypes" are based on a certain number of that particular group that does behave like that.

I think a finite amount of racism in everyone's day is going to happen...from the idle comment to the intense thought of hatred of a particular group. It's acting on those feelings in public that's wrong.

Some people just have not learned all of societies quirks. Surely I haven't :D:D

[UnkaJesse]

I'm certain I'm one of the whitest dudes you'll ever meet. That site's a trip. Here are my top three...

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/1-coffee/
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/27-marathons/
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/85-the-wire/

Nrvana needs to check out http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/28/101-being-offended/

If you ask me that's what's wrong with America. No one can take a friggin' joke anymore. Lighten up people! At the root of most humor is a bit of truth. I'm a white southerner (& I suppose by inference ignorant & racist???) and I do like coffee, marathons and The Wire -- along with a whole of other stuff on that site like the black music black folks don't listen to anymore. Why would I be offended by a joke about that?

[Speakeasy]

Ok, I admit it, perhaps I should lighten up:rolleyes:



Satirically speaking, that website is one of my favourites around.

Stuff White People Like #120-Taking A Year Off (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2009/01/11/120-taking-a-year-off)

Stuff White People Like #90 - Dinner Parties (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/03/18/88-dinner-parties/)

It's funny because it's kinda true. But I also retired from work last year and I'm taking at least the next year off, so it's also a lie. :D

[Many Walks]

This thread started out with EverydayJourneyman asking if other people of color would be hiking the trail in 2009 and sort of turned to the choir singing to itself speculating why more don't. Whites certainly aren't keeping anyone off the trail, in fact this group seems to be pretty welcoming. I figure anyone can hike all the mountains they want as long as they carry their own gear. So, have any of you asked your friends of color why they don't backpack? If so, what are their reasons for not doing so? Just curious.

[Speakeasy]

I'm certain I'm one of the whitest dudes you'll ever meet. That site's a trip. Here are my top three...

http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/01/18/1-coffee/
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/27-marathons/
http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.wordpress.com/2008/03/09/85-the-wire/

Nrvana needs to check out http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/05/28/101-being-offended/

If you ask me that's what's wrong with America. No one can take a friggin' joke anymore. Lighten up people! At the root of most humor is a bit of truth. I'm a white southerner (& I suppose by inference ignorant & racist???) and I do like coffee, marathons and The Wire -- along with a whole of other stuff on that site like the black music black folks don't listen to anymore. Why would I be offended by a joke about that?

Ok, I checked out the website. I guess it's meant to be funny but there seems to be a lot of people using it as a forum to make serious points. It kind of takes away some of the humor. Just my opinion though...:rolleyes:

[Speakeasy]

P.S. UnkaJesse - I was not referring to you or any of your remarks when I made that comment. I'm sorry if there was any confusion...

[sheepdog]

But by chance, are there any other folks like me in the 2009 class? :sun
If you mean people who like to hike and be outdoors, there will be lots.

I have a dream that my children will be judged, not on the color of their skin but on the content of their character. MLK jr.

[UnkaJesse]

P.S. UnkaJesse - I was not referring to you or any of your remarks when I made that comment. I'm sorry if there was any confusion...

It's all good.

I wouldn't have even called you out if it hadn't been on the darned list.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Marje is from El Salvador and I find that when we are hiking she is the only one of "color" within a hundred miles....never bothers us...never had a problem because of it.

Although, it's funny that I just got back from NH and for the first time we felt....kind of out of place. Thanks to the lady at Frescolones pizza shop on RT 3 in Lincoln NH. First person....EVER.....in the 12 years we have been a couple did someone say to my wife...."Tell me, Are you Mexican or somethin??"

Un-freakin real. Then when she was told that she was actually in fact from El Salvador the reply was..... "Well I was close enough, but your Spanish right?"

Then she went off on a tangent on how bad 3rd world countries are and she knows someones daughter that ruined her life by marrying a mexican guy....and....and ARE YOU FREAKIN SERIOUS!!!

Thank god....and I am an atheist....that pizza cooks in 12 minutes. I could not deal with much more than that....

I think she held a book burning that night.


Didn't you consider walking out right then-and-there? I suppose it was hard to think fast in the face of such blatant bigotry.

It's not always bigotry born of hatred up here for the most part. The "North Country" / "Northeast Kingdom" is a third world country of its own in some respects--like poverty and cultural ignorance. Seriously, some of the people here live in a really small world, and demographically it is 99% caucasian. At my daughter's school most of the very few black kids you see are adopted children with white parents. I've met people up here that have never traveled outside their own state, some have never been more than 50 miles from where they were born. Just the way it is. Doesn't mean the woman isn't an idiot, but she may not even realize how others view her behavior.

[Panzer1]

"no pain" is a black dude who's done the trail multiple times.

Yea, I met him on the trail back in 2001. He's a cool dude.

Panzer

[Homer&Marje]

It's not always bigotry born of hatred up here for the most part. The "North Country" / "Northeast Kingdom" is a third world country of its own in some respects--like poverty and cultural ignorance. Seriously, some of the people here live in a really small world, and demographically it is 99% caucasian. At my daughter's school most of the very few black kids you see are adopted children with white parents. I've met people up here that have never traveled outside their own state, some have never been more than 50 miles from where they were born. Just the way it is. Doesn't mean the woman isn't an idiot, but she may not even realize how others view her behavior.


I understand that, and I have been in worse places than Lincoln NH to experience it. It just caught me off guard because we are always up in that part of NH and have gotten to know a lot of the locals through going out to eat, shopping, and staying at a variety of places (when not backpacking).

Believe me when I say we are used to the funny looks a Latina woman brings to small northern towns....

Just the same looks I bring as a big bald chalk white american when I travel to El Salvador. Last time I went got us into some pretty hairy situations because they were mad at...the U.S. (GWB) for switching their currency over to the US dollar in order to receive earthquake aid for the country. Everything from "Gringo go home" to "Bush is a terrorist" was screamed at me, things were even thrown at me from moving vehicle.

When I told the woman I had a house in El Salvador that I would rather stay at most days than live in this country, she wouldn't believe me that I wouldn't "Miss America so much I'd have to come back"

Like you said 4EB, it's ignorance. But my daddy taught me ignorance is no excuse.

[mweinstone]

im so damm dark it aint frickkin no joke. no joke at all. my dark.

[Homer&Marje]

Just to reiterate another statement that was made. When you say to a person of spanish descent "I was close enough" when guessing their country of origin, is extremely offensive.

Ask anyone from central or south america if there is a difference between Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Panama, Peru, Uruguay, Columbia, Argentina, Chili, Paraguay, Brazil..........they are all separate.....and all proud people. Just like we don't like to be called Canadian.

[Cookerhiker]

Just to reiterate another statement that was made. When you say to a person of spanish descent "I was close enough" when guessing their country of origin, is extremely offensive.

Ask anyone from central or south america if there is a difference between Mexico, Guatemala, Honduras, El Salvador, Panama, Peru, Uruguay, Columbia, Argentina, Chili, Paraguay, Brazil..........they are all separate.....and all proud people. Just like we don't like to be called Canadian.

In my brief 2 week Mexico visit last month, I experienced more of a first-hand appreciation of the differences among peoples and ethnic groups solely within Mexico. We traveled in the 3 states - Michoacan, Oaxaca, and Chiapas - with the highest proportion of indigenas who in many respects lived much as their Mayan ancestors of thousands of years ago. I've never forget the sight of colorfully dressed women walking up the road, some with little children, carrying bundles of firewood on their backs.

Yes, there certainly is more than one "face" of Mexico.

[JAK]

This thread started out with EverydayJourneyman asking if other people of color would be hiking the trail in 2009 and sort of turned to the choir singing to itself speculating why more don't. Whites certainly aren't keeping anyone off the trail, in fact this group seems to be pretty welcoming. I figure anyone can hike all the mountains they want as long as they carry their own gear. So, have any of you asked your friends of color why they don't backpack? If so, what are their reasons for not doing so? Just curious.I try and get all my family and friends, and myself, to spend more time outdoors. Its tuff. Most of my friends are what you would call white but I can't say I have any more luck with them.

We have alot of international students here at the university and I try and encourage them as well as our locals to get out more, hike Rockwood Park or Irving Nature Park or the Fundy Trail Parkway. I don't have much luck, but I can't say the international students are any worse than the locals.

I pass a lot of students waiting for the bus to the university during my morning walk to the university. :rolleyes:

[JAK]

When I do see people on the Fundy Footpath they are usually what I might call yuppies with way to much stuff on their backs or up their ass from Mountain Equipment Co-op, and they always seem to be on some sort of a mission. It would be nice to see some normal people out there, like me. ;)

[EverydayJourneyman]

This thread started out with EverydayJourneyman asking if other people of color would be hiking the trail in 2009 and sort of turned to the choir singing to itself speculating why more don't. Whites certainly aren't keeping anyone off the trail, in fact this group seems to be pretty welcoming. I figure anyone can hike all the mountains they want as long as they carry their own gear. So, have any of you asked your friends of color why they don't backpack? If so, what are their reasons for not doing so? Just curious.

I guess it all starts at home. I made my first trip out to New Zealand to traverse both islands in my mid 20s. Didn't think anything of it.

My girlfriend, a few months away from her PhD, raised in Dallas, didn't get her passport until last year before our Plymouth-Dakar rally.

[JAK]

The thing is, VERY FEW 'white' people spend as much time outdoors as they should,
so the main point os that all people need to spend more time outdoors, not just 'white' people.

Are their barriers for others. YES. Not as much as in the past but they are still there.

[JAK]

The most significant barriers to spending time in nature are self-imposed however,
as evident by the fact that even priviledged white folk don't get out as much as the should. The most legitimate excuse might be economic and geographical barriers for urban folks of lower income. I don't the racial barriers are all that serious. Its mostly an economic and geographical thing, and a social thing because people are less inclined to do stuff if they can't get their friends and family involved. In time I think we will see more diversity on the trails, but I am not sure we will see more people. More trails and green areas closer to towns and cities and within towns and cities and where people live is perhaps the best answer. Getting more people of colour to be Yuppy hikers is not the answer.Yuppy hikers and adventurers are seriously ****ed up in my opinion.

[garlic08]

2002, Rockytop. Got his "load" sorted out at Neel's Gap and turned into a hiking machine.

I met Rockytop a few times, on the AT and PCT. He's the only black thru hiker I've ever seen. On the AT, he had a T-shirt that read, "Yes, I'm the black guy." Good hiker and great sense of humor, a critical need out there.

Last year on the AT, I saw three Asian thru hikers. Lily white otherwise.

[double d]

JAK, you say in time we will see more diversity on the trail, but you don't explain how or when. The simple reality is that very few non-whites hike long distance trails in the U.S., just like few non-whites play hockey. It has a lot to do with cultural values and lifestyles, for example, think of soccer. Few black Americans play soccer, but many black folks around the world play it, why? Again, cultural values and lifestyles.

[EverydayJourneyman]

The most significant barriers to spending time in nature are self-imposed however,
as evident by the fact that even priviledged white folk don't get out as much as the should. The most legitimate excuse might be economic and geographical barriers for urban folks of lower income. I don't the racial barriers are all that serious. Its mostly an economic and geographical thing, and a social thing because people are less inclined to do stuff if they can't get their friends and family involved. In time I think we will see more diversity on the trails, but I am not sure we will see more people. More trails and green areas closer to towns and cities and within towns and cities and where people live is perhaps the best answer. Getting more people of colour to be Yuppy hikers is not the answer.Yuppy hikers and adventurers are seriously ****ed up in my opinion.

What's a Yuppy hiker?

[Homer&Marje]

The guy at REI saying to the sales man " Yup I'll take that, Yup I'll take that, Yup I'll take that......" repeat until jaw is sore.

[Hooch]

The guy at REI saying to the sales man " Yup I'll take that, Yup I'll take that, Yup I'll take that......" repeat until jaw is sore.
Nah, that's the guy at L.L. Bean.

[EverydayJourneyman]

The guy at REI saying to the sales man " Yup I'll take that, Yup I'll take that, Yup I'll take that......" repeat until jaw is sore.

And the alternative is to whittle gear out of oak?

I went to REI with a list for gear I'd researched or had recommended to me.

[mister krabs]

My girlfriend, a few months away from her PhD, raised in Dallas, didn't get her passport until last year before our Plymouth-Dakar rally.

Dude, I can't believe you made it all the way to Senegal in a Valiant. :banana

[EverydayJourneyman]

Dude, I can't believe you made it all the way to Senegal in a Valiant. :banana

well, Gambia in a Jeep but the difference is neglible. :p

[Homer&Marje]

Nah, that's the guy at L.L. Bean.
Even better.


And the alternative is to whittle gear out of oak?

I went to REI with a list for gear I'd researched or had recommended to me.

Ok....so you did research, mostly on your own, and went and purchased it. Didn't have the REI guy pick out everything for you.

I have a strict budget so I just tend to buy a new piece of equipment when I can afford it. For a lot of years during and right after college I couldn't take the time off to go hiking at all, so most of my equipment was heavy, old, and stuff I grew up with. Not that it didn't work. Currently I'm working 3 jobs and am saving some money so I have upgraded certain things, like my pack (Osprey Atmos 65 $120 paid) 50% off sale, and my boots also were 40% off for $65 total.

As for the gear made of wood, start with a hiking stick....work your way from there:D:D

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=25534&original=1&c=

[McKeever]

"Harriet Tubman" completed a Thru in 2000. See photo p. 17 in ATN May-June 2001.

I believe I met her while at Baxter in Oct 2000.

[Captain]

i find the very post of this thread racist

[Speakeasy]

i find the very post of this thread racist

Hey Captain - I believe the poster of this thread's original intention was simply to see if there were any other persons of color out on the trail. I definitely think that we strayed from the original topic but do you really find it racist? And if so, could you please share as to why you think this is so? :o

Nrvana

[Speakeasy]

And the alternative is to whittle gear out of oak?

I went to REI with a list for gear I'd researched or had recommended to
me.

Hey EJ - I believe the point H&M was trying to make (in his own kind of White Blaze subtle way) is that there are numerous alternatives to such often over popular, overpriced and occasionally over rated institutions such as REI, EMS, LLBean etc. I like to use them as research tools, however, I almost always find my gear much cheaper elswhere. Besides Ebay I like Campmor, Backcountry and I even found my Frogg Toggs Classic suit through Bizrate for $39.99 (usually around $59.99). I'm not saying REI is "bad" just that there are other alternatives worth exploring if, like me, you are very cost conscious. I guess I have blabbed on long enough...:D

Nrvana

[EverydayJourneyman]

Hey EJ - I believe the point H&M was trying to make (in his own kind of White Blaze subtle way) is that there are numerous alternatives to such often over popular, overpriced and occasionally over rated institutions such as REI, EMS, LLBean etc. I like to use them as research tools, however, I almost always find my gear much cheaper elswhere. Besides Ebay I like Campmor, Backcountry and I even found my Frogg Toggs Classic suit through Bizrate for $39.99 (usually around $59.99). I'm not saying REI is "bad" just that there are other alternatives worth exploring if, like me, you are very cost conscious. I guess I have blabbed on long enough...:D

Nrvana

I'd say roughly about 40% of my gear was purchased online for a deep discount. A fool and his money are soon parted.

[TrippinBTM]

I'd say roughly about 40% of my gear was purchased online for a deep discount. A fool and his money are soon parted.

Agreed. I was in REI yesterday and was (once again) blown away by the prices. $40 for a cotton t-shirt? A $120 for a fleece? I had to walk out. I'm not going to waste my money buying a logo.

As for black people on the trail, I saw three on the AT last year. One I only saw briefly, the other one, named August, I think, was thru-hiking, sort of. I believe he had thru hiked before, and was now just revisiting some places, or something.

Also, Cayenne was out there, and I'd see her on and off, mainly when I was in Virginia.

There was also one asian guy, whose name I forget.

[JAK]

What's a Yuppy hiker?A yuppy that hikes.

[JAK]

JAK, you say in time we will see more diversity on the trail, but you don't explain how or when. The simple reality is that very few non-whites hike long distance trails in the U.S., just like few non-whites play hockey. It has a lot to do with cultural values and lifestyles, for example, think of soccer. Few black Americans play soccer, but many black folks around the world play it, why? Again, cultural values and lifestyles.Cultural values and lifestyles change. I think we will see more diversity on the trails, but I don't think we will see that much more people on the trails. Few people hike, regardless of background. My opinion is that more blacks will start hiking, but more whites won't. Same with hockey and soccer. Just my opinion.

[skinewmexico]

Hey Captain - I believe the poster of this thread's original intention was simply to see if there were any other persons of color out on the trail. I definitely think that we strayed from the original topic but do you really find it racist? And if so, could you please share as to why you think this is so? :o

Because we constantly talk about how we need to be a "colorless" society, but insist on threads doing nothing but talking about color? Just my guess.

[jesse]

Over the years, I've grown strangely accustomed to being the only person of colour doing the things that I love to do (spelunking, mountaineering, adventuring).

But by chance, are there any other folks like me in the 2009 class? :sun

Was the spelling of colour intentional? Do I need to update my "Handbook for Political Correctness"?

[EverydayJourneyman]

Was the spelling of colour intentional? Do I need to update my "Handbook for Political Correctness"?

Born in England, there are many u's where there probably shouldn't be.

[Cookerhiker]

Was the spelling of colour intentional? Do I need to update my "Handbook for Political Correctness"?


Born in England, there are many u's where there probably shouldn't be.

Labour, Favour

[JAK]

Flavour

[EverydayJourneyman]

Because we constantly talk about how we need to be a "colorless" society, but insist on threads doing nothing but talking about color? Just my guess.

There will never be such a thing as a "colorless" society. But even if the world was to strive for it, some would argue the only way to reach a "colorless" society would be via complete integration and mixing, which is what the thread's orginal inquiry was about. :)

[jesse]

England and America, two peoples separated by a common language.

[JAK]

I would agree that a colourless society misses the point of celebrating diversity.
So does a colorless society. ;)

[Worldwide]

It is rare to see a man or woman of color on the AT or any trail for that matter. Almost as rare is seeing a red fox. Well I have a pic I will post to prove both exist. A red fox tried to steal No Pains TP while at a campsite North of Stratton, Maine, and I got the pic. Also add August to the list never seen him on the trail, but seen him at trail events. Also Rosie from '07 NOBVO woman of color.

Peace Out

Worldwide

[Speakeasy]

I'd say roughly about 40% of my gear was purchased online for a deep discount. A fool and his money are
soon parted.

Or, as I am fond of saying - money and I do not get along. We part company quickly...:)

[Speakeasy]

Because we constantly talk about how we need to be a "colorless" society, but insist on threads doing nothing but talking about color? Just my guess.

I'm sorry, I'm pretty new to WB. I did'nt realize that this was a common thread topic. Personally, I think a colorless society would devalue and diminish the diversity that this country was built upon. I guess we all have personal opinions and I'd like to think that although I express mine it does not mean I don't value others...

Nrvana

[4eyedbuzzard]

We all bleed the exact same color.

[Mongoose2]

Because we constantly talk about how we need to be a "colorless" society, but insist on threads doing nothing but talking about color? Just my guess.

I think we as a country strive for a "colorblind" society. Nothing wrong with talking about how to get there.

[EverydayJourneyman]

I'm sorry, I'm pretty new to WB. I did'nt realize that this was a common thread topic. Personally, I think a colorless society would devalue and diminish the diversity that this country was built upon. I guess we all have personal opinions and I'd like to think that although I express mine it does not mean I don't value others...

Nrvana

Yeah, are there other threads? :confused:

[puddingboy]

I dont think ive ever seen colored people hiking, but I know a couple that hunt.

[Lone Wolf]

I'm sorry, I'm pretty new to WB. I did'nt realize that this was a common thread topic. Personally, I think a colorless society would devalue and diminish the diversity that this country was built upon. I guess we all have personal opinions and I'd like to think that although I express mine it does not mean I don't value others...

Nrvana

this country was built upon killin' injuns and and using colored folk to do the work. truth

[stranger]

It's pretty safe to say that hiking, and especially long distance hiking is almost exclusively a "white" demographic at this stage. To why this is, I have no idea. Also, in regards to the AT, I think the question needs to be raised, as the south in particular, isn't the most progressive thinking or behaving when it comes to diversity. And I have no problem telling a african american, or someone of hispanic descent that they should expect different treatment along the trail, and not just in the south.

This doesn't necessarily mean non-white people will be treated poorly, it could be much better as people will naturally compensate (which can be just as insulting), but it will happen in some capacity. Failure to recognize that is ignorance as far as I'm concerned. People don't like to talk about this because it's uncomfortable, but the reason why it's uncomfortable is exactly why it needs to be discussed, but perhaps not on whiteblaze, where the average person is most likely white and will have little "personal" understanding of the subject.

[theinfamousj]

Haven't read all the replies, but wanted to chime in with a story of my own. I have a good friend who is black (and female, too). On my first backpacking trip, I invited her and badgered her in to going.

Originally, she said no. Her mom then supported her by saying, "Only white folks are crazy enough to want to go to sleep outside in a nylon sack."

But I begged and pleaded and in the end, friendship won out and she went outside with me and had a great time. She even later ended up buying her own pack. But she kept referring to herself as, "As crazy as the white folks."

She and I talked about the race issue with regard to backpacking/camping and she said that it was just something that was generally understood that (and these are her words), "Black folks do not spend the night outside unless they have no other choice." Which, because I happen to enjoy sleeping in nature, makes me sad that any group of people - probably just her local community - would write off an activity without having tried it. I mean, I don't know how I'd feel about ice fishing, but I'm not outright against it.

And even more sad, in my local area we have many colleges. UNC-CH, Duke, and NC State all have outing clubs. NCCU, a historically black college university, which my DBF attends, does not have an outing club.

[reddenbacher]

no pain is a jack a,he and a cohort were smoking and drinking in the place last year,andthe pigs should have been called.but we were afraid they would close it even sooner.

[sloopjonboswell]

no pain would rather slap you than hear this jibber jabber. maybe. my infatuation with the a.t. did indeed start in my teenage years.

the whole idea of race is outdated. there is no biological significance, only an americanized understanding of the concept.

there are amazing people of color on the trail, and not just skin color or funny accents.

kudos to anyone who steps out for a week of hiking. the a.t. should be so blessed to have diversity.

the more the merrier.

[Feral Bill]

no pain would rather slap you than hear this jibber jabber. maybe. my infatuation with the a.t. did indeed start in my teenage years.

the whole idea of race is outdated. there is no biological significance, only an americanized understanding of the concept.

there are amazing people of color on the trail, and not just skin color or funny accents.

kudos to anyone who steps out for a week of hiking. the a.t. should be so blessed to have diversity.

the more the merrier.

Can't ignore the cultural and historic significance. It plays out all the time. Maybe someday we'll grow up, but I'm not holding my breath.

[lunchbx]

I am the only puerto rican i've ever met on the trail, plan to thru hike someyear and have done quite a few sections to date. that latin thru hiker girl in the tennis skirt sounds like a dream, lol shes proll pushing 50 now if that was back in the seventies though.

[Bronk]

I had a friend/coworker several years ago and we were talking about where each of us was planning to go for our vacation time and she said she was undecided...we worked for a big corporation and had access to our own company paid travel agency (could earn free vacations as part of our bonus program). I suggested she use some of her bonus program points to go to Europe...her reply was a laugh and "black people don't go to Europe." When I asked why she said "I don't know, we just don't. We go to places like California or Disneyworld." It was just an attitude that she had, as if going to Europe was not something that would ever enter into her mind as somewhere she would want to go. Perhaps the same kind of attitude applies to hiking.

I live in a rural area...the place where I live has a lot of 5 to 10 acre pieces of land that people bought with dreams of someday moving to the country and building a house...lots of people use these lots for hunting and camping in the meantime. There's a black man who owns one of these properties and he comes down for the weekend sometimes in the summer...but he won't stay at his property overnight...he always gets a motel room in the small town about 15 minutes away. He said he's afraid some rednecks will try to burn a cross in his yard or mess with him and his family in some other way. I find that kind of funny because he's letting his own prejudices about "rednecks" put artificial limitations on what he can do...having lived in the area for several years I don't think anything would happen to him out here, but he comes from a large city where the attitudes are much different.

When out on the trail I met an hispanic thruhiker...her whole family came out and hiked with her for a day...we were all sitting around eating lunch on a bald somewhere and her mother asked if she had seen any other hispanics hiking the trail and she said no, she guessed that hispanics spent so much time working in the fields that they wouldn't want to go hiking in the woods.

[Homer&Marje]

I had a friend/coworker several years ago and we were talking about where each of us was planning to go for our vacation time and she said she was undecided...we worked for a big corporation and had access to our own company paid travel agency (could earn free vacations as part of our bonus program). I suggested she use some of her bonus program points to go to Europe...her reply was a laugh and "black people don't go to Europe." When I asked why she said "I don't know, we just don't. We go to places like California or Disneyworld." It was just an attitude that she had, as if going to Europe was not something that would ever enter into her mind as somewhere she would want to go. Perhaps the same kind of attitude applies to hiking.

I live in a rural area...the place where I live has a lot of 5 to 10 acre pieces of land that people bought with dreams of someday moving to the country and building a house...lots of people use these lots for hunting and camping in the meantime. There's a black man who owns one of these properties and he comes down for the weekend sometimes in the summer...but he won't stay at his property overnight...he always gets a motel room in the small town about 15 minutes away. He said he's afraid some rednecks will try to burn a cross in his yard or mess with him and his family in some other way. I find that kind of funny because he's letting his own prejudices about "rednecks" put artificial limitations on what he can do...having lived in the area for several years I don't think anything would happen to him out here, but he comes from a large city where the attitudes are much different.

When out on the trail I met an hispanic thruhiker...her whole family came out and hiked with her for a day...we were all sitting around eating lunch on a bald somewhere and her mother asked if she had seen any other hispanics hiking the trail and she said no, she guessed that hispanics spent so much time working in the fields that they wouldn't want to go hiking in the woods.

Marje works behind a desk...not in a field.....is that why she likes to hike?

This is the most "ignorantly" racist country in the world. From all sides, what I like to call reverse racism....examples like "Black people don't go to Europe" is a classic example of someone putting their own race down a stereotype path, of which many will follow, because they are led by example.

From the time of our birth we are programmed to "copy" and "Mimmick" our teachers i.e. parents, siblings, relatives, friends and community. The mere fact that this thread is continuing is because there is a "mystique" about colored people of one kind or the other participating in an activity.

No offense to the OP but who the hell cares. When someone hikes past me I don't go "Holy crap, you know your the only black guy I ever seen Hiking?"

[rickb]

This is the most "ignorantly" racist country in the world.

By way of comparison, do you think there is much racism towards the indigenous peoples in the Latin American countries you are familiar with?

[Homer&Marje]

By way of comparison, do you think there is much racism towards the indigenous peoples in the Latin American countries you are familiar with?

There is racism all over the world. Latin American countries, for the most part, have plenty of racism towards each other. Salvadorians don't like Guatemalans, Guatemalans don't like Hondurans, and nobody likes Mexico because everyone calls them a Mexican once they come to this country. (Exaggeration, sarcasm alert)

I'm saying that we are ignorantly racist because of people like the lady we met in New Hampshire.

We say things that are offensive, and racist all the time and don't think twice about it. If someone asks you if your racist and you respond "No I like black people, never bothered me, but there's not many around"

Your ignorant.

I hate....as a rule...everyone I'm not friends with. I'm just playing the odds.

[EverydayJourneyman]

No offense to the OP but who the hell cares. When someone hikes past me I don't go "Holy crap, you know your the only black guy I ever seen Hiking?"

I'm happy you don't but that's also not the norm.

[Homer&Marje]

I'm happy you don't but that's also not the norm.

Which is quite unfortunate and borderline intolerable in this day and age. But then again....this country really hasn't got much right recently....so why should this issue be any different.

Good political joke, bunch of bank CEO's flying around in a corporate jet pointing out non white AT hikers.

"Poor bastards must be lost, they'll never survive a day out there"

[Pedaling Fool]

Homer you hate this country so much than just leave:rolleyes: whine, whine, whine.

[Pedaling Fool]

My 2 cents. Race is a product of the human body evolving to cope in a particular environment. As a result our different bodies have different strengths and weaknesses as compared to other biological human bodies. However, that’s about the only difference. So when it comes to the likes and dislikes of people it’s more a factor of culture circumstance. However, if you change their circumstance their interests will change overtime.

I’m what you might call a "People watcher" and after watching a lot of people all over the world (23 years in the Navy) I’ve come to the conclusion that People-are-People – period.

The fact that certain people do not participate in a given activity has nothing to do with race (I know it may seem so, but that’s an illusion). Look at America, I remember as I was growing up the divide between black and white was pretty wide. There were a lot of things black people did not do and a lot of things white people did not do. That is changing, yeah there is still a divide, but it is eroding quickly, well not as quickly as some would like, but much quicker than evolution. That’s why we have Tiger Woods.

[Kanati]

[quote=Homer&Marje;818997]Marje works behind a desk...not in a field.....is that why she likes to hike?

This is the most "ignorantly" racist country in the world. From all sides, what I like to call reverse racism....examples like "Black people don't go to Europe" is a classic example of someone putting their own race down a stereotype path, of which many will follow, because they are led by example.


I respectfully disagree with this statement. Developed Asian countries are generally more racist than the U.S. And besides, what's wrong with aligning oneself with ones own race. All other races do it. Why should I, a white person, not want my race to be successful, or why should I not want to hang around with white guys who I have most in common with?? So long as I don't dump on people of different races there is nothing wrong with it. While I was in the Army I tried to be friendly with the blacks but was soundly rejected. Same with the Puerto Ricans. All they wanted to do was whip my ass. My best friend while I was over seas was a Mexican guy from OK City. He was one of the nicest guys to everyone I've ever met.

We should treat everyone with respect and the dignity they deserve, so long as they deserve it. All people of all races are, deep down inside, primarily for their own race. Not all will admit it. In fact most won't.

On the subject of race, there are two things that really rub me the wrong way. One is that some people of certain races expecting me to continually "pay-back" something that I do not owe. I grew up in a house with no electricity, no running water, no bath room and with a privy out back. As a small child, 3-4 years old, I spent the entire day, 10 hours in the cotton fields. By 8 years old, I was buying all of my school clothes from the money I made working with a hoe and cotton pick sack. I am not complaining or bragging, just stating a fact to make a point. No one, I repeat, no one, worked any harder than we did, and my dad was a disabled vet from injuries in WWII. He also got "0" compensation from the government. There was others in our community who were able to work but didn't and received government subsidies. They sat on their porches. Many of them were white!!!

Second, the way some white people suck up to other races these days makes, not only me want to regurgitate, but also the ones they are sucking up to. That's like being condenscending or something. Everyone hates that.

Just treat people with respect. That's all they want, and that's all we have to do. And if they expect more than that, they have a problem that I can't solve.

Happy hiking to all. :welcome:sun

[Homer&Marje]

Homer you hate this country so much than just leave:rolleyes: whine, whine, whine.
I don't hate this country. I hate people in this country, that thinks this country is perfect. Because it's far from it.


[quote=Homer&Marje;818997]Marje works behind a desk...not in a field.....is that why she likes to hike?

This is the most "ignorantly" racist country in the world. From all sides, what I like to call reverse racism....examples like "Black people don't go to Europe" is a classic example of someone putting their own race down a stereotype path, of which many will follow, because they are led by example.


I respectfully disagree with this statement. Developed Asian countries are generally more racist than the U.S. And besides, what's wrong with aligning oneself with ones own race. All other races do it. Why should I, a white person, not want my race to be successful, or why should I not want to hang around with white guys who I have most in common with?? So long as I don't dump on people of different races there is nothing wrong with it. While I was in the Army I tried to be friendly with the blacks but was soundly rejected. Same with the Puerto Ricans. All they wanted to do was whip my ass. My best friend while I was over seas was a Mexican guy from OK City. He was one of the nicest guys to everyone I've ever met.

We should treat everyone with respect and the dignity they deserve, so long as they deserve it. All people of all races are, deep down inside, primarily for their own race. Not all will admit it. In fact most won't.

On the subject of race, there are two things that really rub me the wrong way. One is that some people of certain races expecting me to continually "pay-back" something that I do not owe. I grew up in a house with no electricity, no running water, no bath room and with a privy out back. As a small child, 3-4 years old, I spent the entire day, 10 hours in the cotton fields. By 8 years old, I was buying all of my school clothes from the money I made working with a hoe and cotton pick sack. I am not complaining or bragging, just stating a fact to make a point. No one, I repeat, no one, worked any harder than we did, and my dad was a disabled vet from injuries in WWII. He also got "0" compensation from the government. There was others in our community who were able to work but didn't and received government subsidies. They sat on their porches. Many of them were white!!!

Second, the way some white people suck up to other races these days makes, not only me want to regurgitate, but also the ones they are sucking up to. That's like being condenscending or something. Everyone hates that.

Just treat people with respect. That's all they want, and that's all we have to do. And if they expect more than that, they have a problem that I can't solve.

Happy hiking to all. :welcome:sun

Where to start.....I said "Ignorantly Racist". Because half the people that offend someone in everyday conversation...have no idea they are doing it.

I know there is racists...of all sorts.... in all countries...I have clearly expressed that. It's sad that someone ( a thru hiker maybe) would be remembered for participating in their said activity solely based on that they were a different race compared to the norm participating in the same activity.

[Pedaling Fool]

...It's sad that someone ( a thru hiker maybe) would be remembered for participating in their said activity solely based on that they were a different race compared to the norm participating in the same activity.
There's nothing sad about that. People remember it because it's out of the norm, so it sticks in your brain -- not sad, just normal.

I remember the first white guy I saw that rapped, now rappin' is very popular amoung practically all races, so now when I see a white rapper it garners no special attention.

[Homer&Marje]

There's nothing sad about that. People remember it because it's out of the norm, so it sticks in your brain -- not sad, just normal.

I remember the first white guy I saw that rapped, now rappin' is very popular amoung practically all races, so now when I see a white rapper it garners no special attention.


Just because it's normal. Doesn't make it ideologically correct. It makes it normal. I stick to my statement, sad.

[Pedaling Fool]

Just because it's normal. Doesn't make it ideologically correct. It makes it normal. I stick to my statement, sad.
"Ideologically correct" :rolleyes: Where the hell did that come from?:rolleyes:

[Kanati]

Over the years, I've grown strangely accustomed to being the only person of colour doing the things that I love to do (spelunking, mountaineering, adventuring).

But by chance, are there any other folks like me in the 2009 class? :sun


With risk of changing the subject and getting this thread back on track, what is spelunking ?

[rickb]

I think its what a lot of people who aren't into caving call caving.

[Homer&Marje]

"Ideologically correct" :rolleyes: Where the hell did that come from?:rolleyes:

Nothing good to say...so he trolls.

Deserves....the look:D

[Lone Wolf]

Nothing good to say...so he trolls.

Deserves....the look:D

whoever those kids are in the photo, they LOOK miserable

[Homer&Marje]

whoever those kids are in the photo, they LOOK miserable

That would be my wife...and brother in law.

Wife had blown out her knee again crossing Black Brook. Then she climbed 3k over the Bonds and down 1k to Guyot. She WAS miserable.

The kid, is always miserable because of his parents. That's why we took him hiking...loved it....going back with us this year.

[EverydayJourneyman]

With risk of changing the subject and getting this thread back on track, what is spelunking ?

doesn't it sound dirty. Yeah, it's caving.

[The Old Fhart]

Kanati-"With risk of changing the subject and getting this thread back on track, what is spelunking ?"The name 'spelunk' comes from the sound a caver makes when his rope breaks and he hits bottom.;)

[rickb]

Cavers rescue spelunkers.

[EverydayJourneyman]

Cavers rescue spelunkers.

knock on wood, never been rescued while spelunking.

I did once get stuck on an ice cave on top of Franz Josef in New Zealand. Fun times.

[Hoop Time]

I met August (mentioned earlier in this thread) last summer when he passed through the area. He was yellow blazing with a young lady who was having some leg/foot injury problems and I gave them a ride from the Scott Farm to Duncannon. He spent much of the ride trying to convince me to do a story on the lack of racial diversity on the AT. He wanted to try to get the word out to other African Americans that the AT was a very positive experience for him.

According to him, he encountered little, if any, racisim on the trail or in trail towns. He actually said the first time he through-hiked that had surprised him.

That said, he also mentioned that he wears his old Army fatigues when he hikes in an effort to make a point that he is a veteran because he felt that helped mitigate any potential racial tensions he might encounter.

[Flinx]

My wife is brown...i am white...we will do a section at the end of this month....she doesn't obsess about skin color...that being said...most black people think that hiking is stupid and always make comments that they wouldn't even think about staying the night in the woods...just a cultural difference....truth be told, i'm sick about hearing or reading about race...sick of it i say! :rolleyes:

[EverydayJourneyman]

My wife is brown...i am white...we will do a section at the end of this month....she doesn't obsess about skin color...that being said...most black people think that hiking is stupid and always make comments that they wouldn't even think about staying the night in the woods...just a cultural difference....truth be told, i'm sick about hearing or reading about race...sick of it i say! :rolleyes:

How is it being in an interracial relationship in Alabama?

[Flinx]

How is it being in an interracial relationship in Alabama?

Well....since everyone up north is so enlightened and knowledgeable and southerners are mostly ignorant, racist inbreds...it's pretty hard down here....we get spit on daily....especially the children...oh did i mention that blacks have a much harder time with it than whites...but i'm sure you knew that.

[phillycheze]

i'm from the DC area and work at adventure camps. i've had every skin tone out in the woods. why the fuss?

[EverydayJourneyman]

Well....since everyone up north is so enlightened and knowledgeable and southerners are mostly ignorant, racist inbreds...it's pretty hard down here....we get spit on daily....especially the children...oh did i mention that blacks have a much harder time with it than whites...but i'm sure you knew that.

Sorry to hear about it. That hasn't been my experience in the south outside a few incidents.

[earlyriser26]

I have been hiking the A.T. for 30 years and at least 100 hikes. Over that period I have only seen 3 non-white hikers. I once joked that the A.T. and the NHL were the only two places that were white only. You can't say that about the NHL anymore. I have no idea why non-whites have such a small representation on the trail.:-?

[EverydayJourneyman]

I have no idea why non-whites have such a small representation on the trail.:-?

Hopefully (fingers crossed) my time on the AT can help get others involved. But as I mentioned somewhere in this massive thread, it's not just hiking that lacks diversity. It's many disciples of adventuring, extreme sports, and outdoor activities. There's a stigma attached to it.

[earlyriser26]

Hopefully (fingers crossed) my time on the AT can help get others involved. But as I mentioned somewhere in this massive thread, it's not just hiking that lacks diversity. It's many disciples of adventuring, extreme sports, and outdoor activities. There's a stigma attached to it.
What stigma?

[EverydayJourneyman]

What stigma?

That they're "white" activities? I guess it's a cultural issue. I spent a lot of time outside the US and it doesn't appear to be as much as a conversational piece.

[Pedaling Fool]

What stigma?
I think what he's saying is that certain people can have a stigma attached to them (from people in their own circles) if they participate in certain outdoor activities, such as hiking, rafting, mountain biking....

Everyone faces a stigma from their peers if they particpate in certain activities. I was never interested in Rappin', but if I were (when rappin' first hit the scene) I would have been stimatized.

[EverydayJourneyman]

^

indeed

[sheepdog]

but your trail name could have been "vanilla ice"

:bananaice, ice baby :banana

[Homer&Marje]

but your trail name could have been "vanilla ice"

:bananaice, ice baby :banana

:bananaStop, Collaborate and listen. Ice is back with a brand new mission!:banana

[sheepdog]

Break it down for me...

[nopain]

I'm a black hiker with many AT thur hikes and the trail has been great to me..why should this matter to you guys..who's white and who's black ....we are all hikers !!!!!! why don't you guy's start a thread that will help you on your hike !!!!!! you guy's can't answer for black people !!!! really some of you guy's really just need to stay the ****** off white blaze . spend your time worring about your own hike!!!!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused::confus ed::confused::confused:

[EverydayJourneyman]

I'm a black hiker with many AT thur hikes and the trail has been great to me..why should this matter to you guys..who's white and who's black ....we are all hikers !!!!!! why don't you guy's start a thread that will help you on your hike !!!!!! you guy's can't answer for black people !!!! really some of you guy's really just need to stay the ****** off white blaze . spend your time worring about your own hike!!!!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused::confus ed::confused::confused:

:welcome

hope to see you out on the AT

[Homer&Marje]

I'm a black hiker with many AT thur hikes and the trail has been great to me..why should this matter to you guys..who's white and who's black ....we are all hikers !!!!!! why don't you guy's start a thread that will help you on your hike !!!!!! you guy's can't answer for black people !!!! really some of you guy's really just need to stay the ****** off white blaze . spend your time worring about your own hike!!!!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused::confus ed::confused::confused:

Now that's bitter folks. You don't need to seem so aggravated. It won't help your cause.

[Lone Wolf]

I'm a black hiker with many AT thur hikes and the trail has been great to me..why should this matter to you guys..who's white and who's black ....we are all hikers !!!!!! why don't you guy's start a thread that will help you on your hike !!!!!! you guy's can't answer for black people !!!! really some of you guy's really just need to stay the ****** off white blaze . spend your time worring about your own hike!!!!!!!!!:confused::confused::confused::confus ed::confused::confused:

the dude that started this thread is brown. he wanted to know if other colors like him were out here. jump on him for starting it

[EverydayJourneyman]

the dude that started this thread is brown. he wanted to know if other colors like him were out here. jump on him for starting it

black on brown crime is frowned upon Wolf.

[Chaco Taco]

There is a great guy out now named Serial. He is af-am. Also, there was a guy last year, former Marine August. Good guy. I see the diversity of the trail expanding and its good to see!:) Who could forget Mr. Lee. Small guy, huge pack

[Lone Wolf]

There is a great guy out now named Serial. He is af-am. Also, there was a guy last year, former Marine August. Good guy. I see the diversity of the trail expanding and its good to see!:) Who could forget Mr. Lee. Small guy, huge pack

Serial is Damascus now for the summer. he's gonna work at Sundog outfitter. he's a Michigan-American i think.

[Chaco Taco]

Serial is Damascus now for the summer. he's gonna work at Sundog outfitter. he's a Michigan-American i think.

Haha, glad he found a job!

[hoz]

I'm a Filipino/Caucasian Kentuckian, born and raised in the US, in the ghetto. All my friends were either Black or Mexican growing up. When I took up outdooring NONE of my Black friends would consider accompanying.

First off there is the Hawk. Then you could always run into Coal Jowls and have to get in the wind. But mostly to them, being outdoors was just plain wack.

It's a matter of environment. If you have been raised in the funky streets it's hard to see the trees.

[hoz]

BTW, last week at IU I attended a lecture/book signing by Christian Lander, the author of "Stuff White People Like: A Definitive Guide to the Unique Taste of Millions". He's a funny guy. The whole blog thing was started on a lark by him and his friend, Miles Valentin (a Filipino/Canadian).

Lander (a Canadian) is a PhD dropout from Indiana University who currently lives in LA. HE OWNS NO CARS and negotiates the streets of LA on a fixie bicycle. He had a hilarious story of riding his bike up to the offices of some high powered agents who wanted to represent him and being told "Sorry, Couriers must use the back entrance".


He started writing the blog mid January and by July had a book in print.

[Pedaling Fool]

You know what's funny -- all white people are part Indian.:D

[Lone Wolf]

I'm a Filipino/Caucasian Kentuckian, born and raised in the US, in the ghetto. All my friends were either Black or Mexican growing up. When I took up outdooring NONE of my Black friends would consider accompanying.

First off there is the Hawk. Then you could always run into Coal Jowls and have to get in the wind. But mostly to them, being outdoors was just plain wack.

It's a matter of environment. If you have been raised in the funky streets it's hard to see the trees.

do you refer to yourself as a Filipino-American or just American? have you been to the Phillipines? lots of African-Americans have never been to Africa. if you were born here you're just American

[Lone Wolf]

You know what's funny -- all white people are part Indian.:D

yeah, just about every lily-whitey i talk to claims to be part Cherokee, never any other tribe. :rolleyes:

[kyhipo]

yeah, just about every lily-whitey i talk to claims to be part Cherokee, never any other tribe. :rolleyes:

That's why my white ass is German and Irish.... :D Ky

[Engine]

Serial is Damascus now for the summer. he's gonna work at Sundog outfitter. he's a Michigan-American i think.

Hey, I'm a Michigan-American, maybe we're related.:)

[Lugnut]

My Grandfather was half Blackfoot. They were the tribe that all the other tribes made fun of. :o

[Engine]

yeah, just about every lily-whitey i talk to claims to be part Cherokee, never any other tribe. :rolleyes:

Irish-Chippewa, that shoots a hole in your theory. :D

[hoz]

do you refer to yourself as a Filipino-American or just American? have you been to the Phillipines? lots of African-Americans have never been to Africa. if you were born here you're just American

I'm a Filipino American, Fil/Am for short. I take pride in my ethnicity. I've been to the Philippines several times. I plan on retiring there part time in a few years. I am married to a Filipina and I cook Pinoy food. Tonight we had Pinakbet with Bagoong.

Wa'y Blimma

Satisfied?

[Lone Wolf]

i'm part slapaho and fugawee

[kyhipo]

Is that Flippo or hipo?

[Lugnut]

i'm part slapaho and fugawee

The lost tribe? :p

[Skidsteer]

How come no one claims to be part Flathead?

[Lugnut]

How come no one claims to be part Flathead?


If they were it would be obvious. :D

[hoz]

How come no one claims to be part Flathead?

Liver Eatin Johnson (the original Jeremiah Johnson) married a Flathead woman. He thought they were the most beautiful of all the Western Tribes.

[Skidsteer]

Liver Eatin Johnson (the original Jeremiah Johnson) married a Flathead woman. He thought they were the most beautiful of all the Western Tribes.

True. He also ate liver.

Jus' sayin'.

[Homer&Marje]

I have a flat spot on my head....does that count? Momma promises she never dropped me:D

[nopain]

This is such a bull**** thread !!!!!!!!!! get a ****ing life !!!!!!!!!! I never think about being black on the trail .... I'm done reading this bull**** !!!!! I have 7 thur hikes and they have all been great !!!!!!!!!!!!! I think most of you guy's that start bull**** threads like this are a bunch of want to be thur hiker PUSSY'S real hikers don't give a **** !!!!!!!!!

[Lone Wolf]

This is such a bull**** thread !!!!!!!!!! get a ****ing life !!!!!!!!!! I never think about being black on the trail .... I'm done reading this bull**** !!!!! I have 7 thur hikes and they have all been great !!!!!!!!!!!!! I think most of you guy's that start bull**** threads like this are a bunch of want to be thur hiker PUSSY'S real hikers don't give a **** !!!!!!!!!

a brown guy started the thread. chill out

[Homer&Marje]

I've never thur hiked but I wish to:D

[Skidsteer]

This is such a bull**** thread !!!!!!!!!! get a ****ing life !!!!!!!!!! I never think about being black on the trail .... I'm done reading this bull**** !!!!! I have 7 thur hikes and they have all been great !!!!!!!!!!!!! I think most of you guy's that start bull**** threads like this are a bunch of want to be thur hiker PUSSY'S real hikers don't give a **** !!!!!!!!!


Are you sure? You seem a bit ambivalent. :D

[Homer&Marje]

Are you sure? You seem a bit ambivalent. :D


I just flat out don't believe he's black:D

[Engine]

This is such a bull**** thread !!!!!!!!!! get a ****ing life !!!!!!!!!! I never think about being black on the trail .... I'm done reading this bull**** !!!!! I have 7 thur hikes and they have all been great !!!!!!!!!!!!! I think most of you guy's that start bull**** threads like this are a bunch of want to be thur hiker PUSSY'S real hikers don't give a **** !!!!!!!!!

Please don't hold back, tell us what you really think! Inquiring minds want to know. I am gonna start hiking on Thursdays though to find out what all the fuss is about. :)

[hoz]

True. He also ate liver.

Jus' sayin'.

Only from the Crow.

[UnkaJesse]

a brown guy started the thread. chill out

I think he said chai, but there's no way I'm searching back through this big-@$$ thread to confirm it.

[TrippinBTM]

There is a great guy out now named Serial. He is af-am. Also, there was a guy last year, former Marine August. Good guy. I see the diversity of the trail expanding and its good to see!:) Who could forget Mr. Lee. Small guy, huge pack

Was he that Korean guy with the Army helmet last year?

[EverydayJourneyman]

I think he said chai, but there's no way I'm searching back through this big-@$$ thread to confirm it.

Thanks, now I'm thirsty.

I can't believe this thread is still going.

[Lone Wolf]

I can't believe this thread is still going.

talk about dogs and dopers

[EverydayJourneyman]

talk about dogs and dopers

I have no idea what that means but I do like dogs.

[sheepdog]

I have no idea what that means but I do like dogs.
for supper or just in general??

[EverydayJourneyman]

for supper or just in general??

I'm a vegetarian.

[Pedaling Fool]

Hey :welcome No Pain

[TrippinBTM]

You know what's funny -- all white people are part Indian.:D

What the hell are you talking about? I'm a mutt, but a European mutt. My ancestors made it here in the 1920s, not fronteir times. And anyways, I'm pretty sure they aren't all part Indian in Europe.

Or are you talking about India, as in, Indo-European?

[SteveJ]

What the hell are you talking about? I'm a mutt, but a European mutt. My ancestors made it here in the 1920s, not fronteir times. And anyways, I'm pretty sure they aren't all part Indian in Europe.

Or are you talking about India, as in, Indo-European?

You missed the reference....

At least in the South, just about everyone will claim that they are part Indian...I know I am - I think it was my great-grandmother that was Cherokee! (or was it the great-great-grandmother?)

:D

[JAK]

I think he was talking India. He makes a valid point that all such terms, like European, or White, are arbitrary. They are sometimes useful, for some purposes, but usually not good ones. I don't consider myself White, or European, although I could. I do consider myself a Scot, even though it too is arbitrary and ever changing. I am part native American also, but mostly Scot. I identify myself primarily as a Maritimer. It's a good catch all. Good enough for me anyways. I don't consider myself any closer connected to Germans or Italians or Russians than to Chinese or Eqyptians or Indians or Africans. Alot of Scots travelled to those places too though, I suppose.

Anyhow, I'm a Maritimer, through and through, whatever the heck that is.
For the record, not very many of us hike either.

[JAK]

Oops. I guess he did mean North American Indian after all. lol

[buff_jeff]

We're all African. Humans originated there.

[JAK]

I love the complexity, and all the exceptions to preconceptions. Like the Basque, and the Sammi, neither of which speak Indo-European languages, but which might well have the best claim to be proto-European, or at least Paleo-European. Magyars are considered European, as far as I know, although their language isn't Indo-European. They have only been East of the Urals since 400-500 AD. Gypsy's are another interesting groups. Africans have been in Europen pretty much forever also, so you might just as well argue that Europeans are a mix of African and Asian. Genetically we are all supposed to be very close, but its all very complex, and changes with every new birth and death, thank goodness.

We share atoms and molecules with the entire world. So we are all part dirt, basically.

[JAK]

We're all African. Humans originated there.I think there is alot of African blood in the Spanish and Scots and Irish, and most Mediterranean peoples too I should think. Alot of very dark Irish and Scots. Some say it had to do with the Spanish Armada but it goes back way beyond that. My own theory is that after the last Ice Age there would have been considerable migration up from West Africa, and so the pre-celtic people of Western Europe probably had alot of West African. Then there was the Carthaginian connections also, as well as the Moors, plus anytime you have maritime coastal trade you get alot of healthy mixing.

Speaking of which, the earliest humans in Iceland came from America,
so Americans discovered Europe before Europeans discovered America. ;)

[Lugnut]

This is all starting to make my head hurt.:eek:

[JAK]

I would love to know alot more about the Carthaginians, and the Aquitanians, and the Picts, and more recently the Moors. It would be nice to travel back in time and see what it was really like. Aparently when the Spanish rediscovered the Canary Islands they found alot of Carthaginian coins. I would also like to know if any Micmacs ever made it to Britain in Birch Bark Canoes, from storms and such, and if the legend of seal people comes from such occurences. I would imagine before the world got too populated, like before 3000 BC, it might have been eaiser for adventurous people to travel all over the world without bumping into too many hostile tribes. It would have been great to be on that first circumnavigation of African by the Carthaginians, and the Phonecians before them, and who knows who else before them, and from where.

[JAK]

The world was also quite different 5000 - 10000 years ago because the sea levels were lower, so Britain was connected to Europe, and places like the Bay of Fundy and the Gulf of Maine and Georges Bank, as well as the Scilly Islands and the Irish Sea would have all been quite different, and places like Florida and the Bahamas and the Carribean also of course, and the Indian Ocean and Mediterranean, and Black Sea, and all that.

There were not so many people back then, but think of all the stories of the past 35,000 years.
I would imagine there were alot more hikers. ;)

[JAK]

Stuff like Stonehenge. *** eh?

[JAK]

The Berbers are very cool.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_people#Prehistory

Mitochondrial DNA
Genetic studies on Iberian populations also show that North African mitochondrial DNA sequences (haplogroup U6) and sub-Saharan sequences (Haplogroup L), although present at only low levels, are still at much higher levels than those generally observed elsewhere in Europe [68][69][70]. Haplogroup U6 have also been detected in Sicily and South Italy at very low levels[71]. It happens also to be a characteristic genetic marker of the Saami populations of Northern Scandinavia[72]. It is difficult to ascertain that U6's presence is the consequence of Islam's expansion into Europe during the Middle Ages, particularly because it is more frequent in the north of the Iberian Peninsula rather than in the south. In smaller numbers it is also attested too in the British Islands, again in its northern and western borders. It may be a trace of a prehistoric neolithic/megalithic expansion along the Atlantic coasts from North Africa, perhaps in conjunction with seaborne trade. One subclade of U6 is particularly common among Canarian Spaniards as a result of native Guanche (proto-Berber) ancestry.

[Wise Old Owl]

It's so amazing how some folk get rapped into DNA and Europe, Africa when talking about color on the trail, I don't really care where you are from, you are always welcome on the trail with me.

[JAK]

I just like the complexity of DNA, and how it links places and peoples, even to the distant past, before the Phonecians, to when people in Europe and Africa were building Megaliths. I wonder what sort of boats that used, when the first started travelling and trading between Britain and North Africa. I understand Britain was an important source for Tin, and who knows what before that. Big Mammals maybe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prehistoric_Britain
Britain was re-occuppied by humans after the last ice age about 12,000 BC.
Ireland became geographically separated from Great Britain about 9,500 BC.
Great Britain became geographically separated from Europe about 6,000 BC.

[Lugnut]

If you start wondering about all that you're going to be up all night!

[JAK]

You got that right. It's fun to consider just how primitive Scotland was until relatively recent in human history. Not that there is anything wrong with primitive, but my ancestors over in Scotland and those here in the Maritimes were not all that different in what they were doing for the bulk of human history, from say 12,000 years ago up to say 2,000 years ago.

[JAK]

Lots of hiking mostly, I should think. ;) :D :)

[hoz]

JAK, You should read "The Farfarers: by Farley Mowat.

[Engine]

We're all African. Humans originated there.

Actually, I originated in a small hospital in northern Michigan. But that's another story. :)

[JAK]

JAK, You should read "The Farfarers: by Farley Mowat.Read that. Very good reading. I love historical fiction. It often has some bias, but so does any historical or archaeological writing. 'Hardly Knowit' is very insightful and entertaining. He does his homework but he is a story teller first and foremost, and that's another great tradition that's seriously under-rated. People shouldn't be so concerned about being certain. We usually get it wrong in some way anyhow, so we might as well just get on with our dreams and story telling.

[hoz]

I read Farley is banned from entering the US because he once pointed a rifle at US Air Force jets that were buzzing his house.

I admire his exploits canoing and exploring the far north, in his dau he did some "far out' tripping.

When I discovered him Iwent on a Mowat binge, reading every book I could find.

[JAK]

He's not all that popular in Newfoundland because he called them all a bunch of savages and wrote a book about them when they all went out killed that whale that time like they had been doing for years. I like all his books though, and the films from his books. Never Cry Wolf was very funny. I think Snow Walker was based on one of hios books also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNHLc79HF6o

[hoz]

I think Snow Walker was based on one of hios books also.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XNHLc79HF6o

I own that one. Fantastic movie.

Actually, several of Mowats short stories went into "SnowWalker".

I always watch for Barry Pepper, liked him in "The Three Burials of Melquiades Estrada" too.

[UnkaJesse]

JAK, were you high last night?

[Pedaling Fool]

JAK, were you high last night?
That's nothin', just don't get him started on a talk about, Wind Chill Factor.

[JAK]

No. Just curious.

I also got to thinking how many ancestors we have. Say on average 25 years between generations. Over 100 years that would be about 16. Over 250 years it becomes about 1000. Over 500 years it becomes 1,000,000 and over 1000 years a trillion. Of course by then there has to be some inbreeding taking place, either distant, or not so distant, as the World's population 12,000 years ago was only a million.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_population

I would think it would have been fairly easy to travel and get around with fewer people to get in your way. Even on foot it doesn't take forever to cross a continent, as many on this forum can attest. My guess would be that is that human diversity has been fairly constant over the years, though ever changing. The typical Scot 200 years ago was different than 400 years ago and much different again 2000 or 4000 or 6000 years ago. In general the female inherited mitochondrial DNA changes slower than the male and female chromosomal DNA, because traditionally men tended to do most of the invading and trading. It seems we have always been naturally drawn to our own, but also to the exotic, and so we are stronger as a species by maintaining both convergence and divergence of diversity in this way, which keeps us adapting to changing conditions over time, both local and global, and also social. I am afraid to think that the most wild amongst us or within us has been weeded out, or at leased suppressed by other genes or social pressures, but I think we will always carry those wild tendencies within and amongst us, thank goodness.

Honour thy Mother and thy Father. Fear the Land. Consider the End.

[SteveJ]

<clip>Honour thy Mother and thy Father. Fear the Land. Consider the End.

"Do not forget the face of your father..."

[TrippinBTM]

You missed the reference....

At least in the South, just about everyone will claim that they are part Indian...I know I am - I think it was my great-grandmother that was Cherokee! (or was it the great-great-grandmother?)

:D

I see. I figured he was just being a jerk.

JAK, I'm with you, I'm interested in all that stuff, and love Farley Mowat. I haven't read Farfarer, though, will have to see if the library has it.

By the way, if there's 25 years between generations, then in 100 years you 'll have 4 generations, not 16. Unless I'm missing something...

[JAK]

I wasn't counting generations I was counting the potential number of ancestors of each generation. In other words 2^4=16 after 100 years, 2^10=1024 after 250 years, ~1,000,000 after 500 years, ~1,000,000,000,000 after 1000 years. Of course you must get alot of common ancestors once you go back 10 generations or more. Neat stuff eh.

[Serial 07]

holla at'cha boy!

[JAK]

holla bak :D

[TrippinBTM]

JAK, I understand. Yeah, you'd have a lot of common ancestors, otherwise for every person alive now, you'd have billions of people 10 generations ago. Which clearly can't be.

[JAK]

What's kinda cool also is that even if you and all your offspring only have 2 kids on average you repopulate the entire planet within 1000 years or so, more or less, along with everyone else of course. :D

[TrippinBTM]

yikes. maybe china has the right idea after all.

No babies for you! Next!

[singhp]

I'm Indian (Sikh) and I'll be on the trail in a few weeks!

[chief]

Well....since everyone up north is so enlightened and knowledgeable and southerners are mostly ignorant, racist inbreds...it's pretty hard down here....we get spit on daily....especially the children...oh did i mention that blacks have a much harder time with it than whites...but i'm sure you knew that.Dude, you live way too close to Prichard!