View Full Version : Moved from Straight Forward: hiking poles.
Lemming Fleming
04-08-2009, 09:33
Hi there,
I completed a 20 mile hike the other day with my full pack and all the equipment I'll be bringing on the trail. it weighed just over 26 pounds. I had no bad reaction to carrying this for 8.5 hours apart from feet full of blisters (i forgot plasters or any fabric wrap :( which I wont again!). The only thing I noticed was my posture was pretty bad, leaning forward more than usual. Is this OK? Normal? I was wondering if hiking poles are something everyone uses or are they an aid for people with some problem areas (bad knees/joints/back)?
flemdawg1
04-08-2009, 10:33
If the pack causes you to lean forward, you probably need to adjust the torso length and shoulder straps to allow the weight to ride more on your hips. If you like using the poles (I do) then continue to do so. I don't have any knee problems aside from some IT-band soreness on long downhills while trail running. The blisters are worrisome to me though, definately get that worked out or better shoes.
Lemming Fleming
04-08-2009, 10:54
If the pack causes you to lean forward, you probably need to adjust the torso length and shoulder straps to allow the weight to ride more on your hips. If you like using the poles (I do) then continue to do so. I don't have any knee problems aside from some IT-band soreness on long downhills while trail running. The blisters are worrisome to me though, definately get that worked out or better shoes.
thanks, I've been wearing my boots and socks in for 2-3 months now and have had no blisters whatsoever, so I presumed it was just the extra weight. Like I said, i didn't take anything to sort my feet out as soon as I had some discomfort.
Ox97GaMe
04-08-2009, 14:11
you may not think you NEED hiking poles, but I read an article about hiking poles a few years ago. I dont remember the exact numbers, but they were somewhere in the neighborhood of:
reduces 60% of stress on knees on uphills
reduces 75% of stress on knees on downhills.
Over 2000 miles, that could make a HUGE difference on whether you complete a thru hike or not.
Met a lot of 'thrus' on my five day AT-Bartram trail loop that I just got back from today. Everyone, young and old were using trekking poles. As someone on WB said a while back, "four legs are better than two!"
I used poles on my sobo thru last year with a pack weight similar to yours. I don't think the numbers are as good as 60-75%, but they do take a lot of strain of your knees. I found them very helpful when maintaining my speed when heading uphill as well. I don't have any physical problems, I just used poles as a method of defense against developing a problem. I also would suggest taking a look at how your pack is adjusted and maybe try some changes.
Jeremy from FL AKA?
04-10-2009, 12:35
The leaning forward is due to the fact that your pack is not evenly distributed. Try packing light things like extra cloths, and sleeping bag on the bottom, then camp items in the middle, and essentials on top. This will compliment you natural equilibrium. you want the weight to compliment you posture, not compromise. Try switching around item placement in your pack until you find something that makes it feel lighter, for now it is equally distributing the weight threw your back, hips, and shoulders.
I use trekking poles, and find them to reduce knee stress, and the strain of your pack weight, and this will also reduce leaning forward while going up hill allowing one to distribute weight with your arms/poles instead of leaning froward, and trudging upward. About the feet....................you should never have these problems after this kind of hike. You may want to try a shoe 1/2, to 1 size bigger then you would naturally. This will allow your feet to have room to " swell ", and should help with the blisters.
hope this was helpfull, Jeremy
Lone Wolf
04-10-2009, 12:38
I was wondering if hiking poles are something everyone uses or are they an aid for people with some problem areas (bad knees/joints/back)?
i never use them and i have a "bad" knee. badder than most
I use them for downhill mostly, I have pins in my knee and I would rather baby it now so I can continue to hike the rest of my life without problems. Also I use them to make noise on blind turns so I don't startle a bear. Actually I use them to hang my pack from so it don't sit on the ground in camp, I make an X and lean them up against a tree and hang the pack from the handles. I use them to tie my bear line to valt it over a branch. I end up using them for many purposes.
i never use them and i have a "bad" knee. badder than most
Yes, but you also LEARN SLOWLY.
Heehehehehehe
Hope you are doing well.:sun
Lrg 50KR
04-11-2009, 16:02
One other possibility about the blisters: were you properly hydrated before and during? Dehydration can lead to blistering in some cases.
Tod
modiyooch
04-11-2009, 16:28
I've been backpacking for 29 years, and have never carried poles. I think that maybe I'm just stubborn, or maybe I feel that it will be a weakness for me to use poles. Or, maybe since I'm obsessed with weight, I just refuse to carry the extra weight. or, maybe since they weren't around when I started the AT, I just didn't see the need to add them. I know i'm in a minority group here.
Poles have been around since pre-history.
Many petroglyphs show load bearers using two sticks.
HYOH, but if you haven't given them a serious try.....:-?
Many Leki dealers have Demos.
Lone Wolf
04-11-2009, 20:37
Poles have been around since pre-history.
Many petroglyphs show load bearers using two sticks.
HYOH, but if you haven't given them a serious try.....:-?
Many Leki dealers have Demos.
today's trail walkers don't carry heavy loads at all. no sticks needed. they're just a marketing fad
I've been backpacking for 29 years, and have never carried poles. I think that maybe I'm just stubborn, or maybe I feel that it will be a weakness for me to use poles. Or, maybe since I'm obsessed with weight, I just refuse to carry the extra weight. or, maybe since they weren't around when I started the AT, I just didn't see the need to add them. I know i'm in a minority group here.I went about 34 years of backpacking without using either trekking poles or a walking stick. But in using them for the last year and over 200 miles, the only thing I'm asking myself is 'why did I wait so long to give them a try?' They are awesome.
For those who don't want to use them or feel there is no need to use them, great! Don't use them. I don't need universal agreement that they are beneficial. :)
Blue Jay
04-12-2009, 09:02
I dont remember the exact numbers, but they were somewhere in the neighborhood of:
reduces 60% of stress on knees on uphills
reduces 75% of stress on knees on downhills.
Seriously think about that. This would mean, with every step, you would have to use your arms to press down with the force of 60-75% of your entire weight including pack. Try it in a gym, see how many steps your arm strengh would last. Humans evolved using their legs for walking, not their arms. Why is this even talked about, if not for marketing poles?
The billion dollar advertizing industry can sell anything.:eek:
Blue Jay
04-12-2009, 09:05
Poles have been around since pre-history.
Many Leki dealers have Demos.
That's because they make you look and feel soooooo cool. They scream, "I am an official Hiker". I will give them that.
Trekking Poles a Fad?
Not as much as HIKING.:D
They make you look cool?
Maybe because you are not in as much pain?
Billions in advertising...oh yeah..
mostly just Trail Magic.
Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:20
That's because they make you look and feel soooooo cool. They scream, "I am an official Hiker". I will give them that.
that and some goofy gaiters and a hydration thingy :)
The billion dollar advertizing industry can sell anything.:eek:Especially stuff that does what it advertises to do, like trekking poles. :)
Feral Bill
04-12-2009, 14:46
About those blisters. Whaat sort of sox (or socks) are you wearing? It can male a big difference.
I find hiking poles useful, especially downhill in rocky or muddy terrain. But more and more as I age, I find them very helpful with difficult footing as an aid to balance.
Speaking of their benefits with difficult footing, Christus Cowboy and I just finished a 54 mile AT- Bartram Trail loop, where we encountered 6 inches of snow and two days hiking thru it. Trekking poles were awesome as it was impossible to tell what you were stepping on, with numerous slips on rocks and unlevel ground. My poles helped prevent going down dozens of times.
modiyooch
04-12-2009, 19:20
I confess, a pole was forced on me on Mt Washington. It basically kept me upright. I think the gentleman was tired of picking me up off the ground from the winds.
I dont remember the exact numbers, but they were somewhere in the neighborhood of:
reduces 60% of stress on knees on uphills
reduces 75% of stress on knees on downhills.
.
Seriously think about that. This would mean, with every step, you would have to use your arms to press down with the force of 60-75% of your entire weight including pack. Try it in a gym, see how many steps your arm strengh would last. Humans evolved using their legs for walking, not their arms. Why is this even talked about, if not for marketing poles?
The billion dollar advertizing industry can sell anything.:eek:
According to a 1999 study in The Journal of Sports Medicine, trekking poles can reduce compressive force on the knees by up to 25%, NOT 60-70%. That said, the 25% less force on your knees does make a difference for a lot of hikers, even ones (like myself) without knee problems. 60-70% is surely too much for your arms to handle, but 25% or a little less is surely reasonable. Keep in mind that the 25% reduction would only be on the steepest downhills, at other times the stress that your arms are absorbing would be less. So it isn't unreasonable to think see that your arms strength could last all day, and in fact almost anyone who has correctly used trekking poles will tell you that they are beneficial, especially on downhills where your knees experience a lot more stress than they do on level or uphill.
TrippinBTM
04-12-2009, 20:44
Ok, check it out. You're doing good with your pack weight, so good job there. How much food did you have? If only enough for that day, well, in real thru-hiking it'll be heavier. Still, good job.
I'd say skip the poles. They're crutches. If you need something, find a sapling and make a hiking stick, that's what I did. It does help on the downhills. But by the midpoint of my hike, I was hardly using it, just carried it most of the time. Poles are expensive and noisy (metal tips) which scares all interesting wildlife away. My hiking partners' poles' noise really irritated me sometimes, especially in the rocky sections. A wooden stick is much quieter. And free.
With your pack weight, you won't need them like someone with 40 lbs would (that would be me).
TrippinBTM
04-12-2009, 20:48
as for balance, well, you can develop better balance, but not by using crutches. You don't gain arm strength by wearing your arm in a sling, right? I say the less technology in the woods, the better, especially when you grow as a person as a result.
as for balance, well, you can develop better balance, but not by using crutches. You don't gain arm strength by wearing your arm in a sling, right? I say the less technology in the woods, the better, especially when you grow as a person as a result.
Ever wonder why they call you "trippin?" :D
TrippinBTM
04-12-2009, 22:35
it's a Dave Matthews Band reference, an old screenname I've used forever to keep things consistent in my memory. My trailname is Moccasin.
But yeah. Good one ;)
as for balance, well, you can develop better balance, but not by using crutches. You don't gain arm strength by wearing your arm in a sling, right? I say the less technology in the woods, the better, especially when you grow as a person as a result.
Spoken like a 25 year old :sun
TrippinBTM
04-13-2009, 08:58
I see your point, but I never said "no" technology. It's always a compromise. I just don't want to bring unneccesary things along so I fit in or look like a hiker. And of course I'll leave my phone at home...
If someone needs poles, fine, use them. But I think people think they need them more than they actually do.
(by the way, I have considered trying a pack like that out for the novelty. I'm a big fan of DIY and homemade gear. At least in a survival situation it'd be good knowledge to have.)
I think we're talking about two types of trekking pole users, those who 'need' them due to age and/or physical limitations, and those who are perfectly healthy/young who see the added benefit in terms of reduced fatigue and body wear and tear. I saw plenty of the later on my recent hike near Wesser / NOC. Many young hikers with no leg/knee problems after the first 150 miles of their intended thru were extolling the benefits of them.
The less fatigue I have at the end of the day, the more I can enjoy the experience. Thus I use hiking poles because they actually enhance my enjoyment of the outdoors.
YMMV, but HYOH and enjoy!
Lemming Fleming
04-14-2009, 04:14
Thanks for all the advice, I'm just not sure how I'll react to not having my arms free with poles I guess :). I like my hands to have nothing to do but I'll get some and give them a go before I hit the trail proper.
. About the feet....................you should never have these problems after this kind of hike. You may want to try a shoe 1/2, to 1 size bigger then you would naturally. This will allow your feet to have room to " swell ", and should help with the blisters.
hope this was helpfull, Jeremy
The feet situation did surprise me a little, my boots are a size bigger as recommended and I have been using them each time I walk since january. I haven't had one single blister during this time. The blisters were on the balls of my feet and one on the heel but have quickly dissappeared. I figured it was just the extra weight and the fact I had forgotten plasters to put on the 'hotspots' as they happened. My hike was 24.5 miles, 9 more then my longest day in the trail.
Blue Jay
04-14-2009, 06:58
Especially stuff that does what it advertises to do, like trekking poles. :)
Chia pets, politicians, pet rocks, actually you don't need advertising for things that really work only things that don't.
Blue Jay
04-14-2009, 07:05
According to a 1999 study in The Journal of Sports Medicine, trekking poles can reduce compressive force on the knees by up to 25%, NOT 60-70%. That said, the 25% less force on your knees does make a difference for a lot of hikers, even ones (like myself) without knee problems. 60-70% is surely too much for your arms to handle, but 25% or a little less is surely reasonable. Keep in mind that the 25% reduction would only be on the steepest downhills, at other times the stress that your arms are absorbing would be less. So it isn't unreasonable to think see that your arms strength could last all day, and in fact almost anyone who has correctly used trekking poles will tell you that they are beneficial, especially on downhills where your knees experience a lot more stress than they do on level or uphill.
According to the protrekking pole web site Health.com/nordic, walking with poles increases your calorie burn by 20 to 30%. Since while backpacking you have to carry 20 to 30% more food. How exactly does that help your knees? THERE IS NO NET GAIN.
Blue Jay
04-14-2009, 07:08
My poles helped prevent going down dozens of times.
They also prevent developing balance.
99% of hikers find poles helpful, and then there's Blue Jay
According to the protrekking pole web site Health.com/nordic, walking with poles increases your calorie burn by 20 to 30%. Since while backpacking you have to carry 20 to 30% more food. How exactly does that help your knees? THERE IS NO NET GAIN.
I would think that the extra pound or two of food you would have to carry is negligible when you're talking about a 25% force reduction on your knees.
I use one bamboo stick. What does that mean?
I use one bamboo stick. What does that mean?
It means , like hikers without poles, you take 6% more footsteps per mile.
You also do light plowing, without baskets, and spend alot of time walking around your single staff.
Pick up a second stick and try that. You will probably understand.:rolleyes:
Blue Jay is just like his name...all NOISE.:D
Lone Wolf
04-14-2009, 11:08
It means , like hikers without poles, you take 6% more footsteps per mile.
You also do light plowing, without baskets, and spend alot of time walking around your single staff.
Pick up a second stick and try that. You will probably understand.:rolleyes:
Blue Jay is just like his name...all NOISE.:D
buncha BS :rolleyes: believe all that marketing crap if you want but i don't need no stinkin poles to walk
I got an idea . . . why don't we hikers who use, appreciate, and experience the verifiable, measurable benefits of trekking poles, continue to use them? And why don't the .5% of hikers who see no benefit or desire to use them not use them? And why don't we stop these endless bickering threads so Blue Jay is forced to find a new purpose in life! :eek: :p :D
modiyooch
04-14-2009, 14:01
started without poles; hopefully, end without poles. I tried a pole once. Left it at a rest stop and had to hike back .5 mile to retrieve it. That made me mad. I tend to support myself with the trees as I descend. I'll never forget grabbing a tree in Pa and crunching those catepillars. yuck. anyway, I'm just old school. I fall in that 1% ?? with bluejay and lone wolf. It's not that I don't see the benefit, it's just that I am "weighing" the options or pros/cons and this stage of the game.
Started with no poles until my early 20's, then I used just one hiking stick for the next twenty years, but I always ended up going in circles. Now I use 2 poles and I can go in a straight line again...:)
modiyooch
04-14-2009, 14:29
I have added a sleeping pad in my old age. Poles might be next. I'm going to finish that trail if I have to crawl. Else, my family will have to carry my ashes to the end.
Don't get me wrong. I'm very thankful that I don't have knee, ankle or any joint problems. It will require a major mental and life adjustment when I do.
I'm very thankful that I don't have knee, ankle or any joint problems. It will require a major mental and life adjustment when I do.I don't have any leg issues either, although I did have to have my left quad tendon reattached due to a fall at home in 1999. It doesn't bother me at all now, but I have an 18 inch scar from mid-thigh down below my knee cap.
I also have a flat spot on my forehead where I slapped it real hard when after 34 years of backpacking I finally decided to give trekking poles a try and it took no time for me to exclaim "Why did I not start using them sooner?" - slap!
No damage done by not using them, and contrary to what BJ claims, my legs and knees are not growing progressively weaker because I do use them. Give 'em a try. If you prefer, buy a cheap $15 pair from Walmart to see what they are about, although keep in mind that more expensive ones will give you an even better experience with better grips and straps. I recommend the $79 (REI) Black Diamond Trail ones, which have the awesome 'flick lock' adjusting mechanisms. They are also extremely sturdy.