View Full Version : Tarptent Double Rainbow, first impressions
I just finished setting up my new "toy" (Tarptent Double Rainbow) in the backyard and thought I'd share my thoughts so far.
1) Materials and workmanship seem above average or at least as nice as any SD or Eureka tent I've owned in the past. I was particularly impressed with the strength of the screen, tough stuff. :)
2) Getting a taut pitch is mildly problematic right now, but no more so than with many other tents I've dealt with. With a bit of experience I'm sure it'll get easier.
3) Dead on as far as advertised weight. They said 41 ounces (could have sworn it was 40 when I looked the first time) and my scale shows 41 1/4 ounces...close enough. :)
4) With 2 sets of trekking poles, which is going to be the case with my wife and I, there are many options for setup.
5) I am concerned with the height of the exposed screen at the ends of the tent. When pitched in a freestanding mode with trekking poles the coverage ends about 6-7 inches above the ground. In a hard blowing wind I worry about the potential for a soaked sleeping bag. I have yet to set the tent up in a non freestanding mode, maybe that will solve the problem.
6) The tent did not come with enough line length to set it up as pictured on the web site. A minor problem, but mildly annoying all the same.
Overall, I'd say I'm very happy with the purchase and I believe I have a tent that will serve us for a long time without breaking my back or the bank. :D
Bootstrap
04-08-2009, 11:58
2) Getting a taut pitch is mildly problematic right now, but no more so than with many other tents I've dealt with. With a bit of experience I'm sure it'll get easier.
With my Squall II, it helps a lot to use an MSR Groundhog or other beefy stake in the back and front. Or tie the back to something like a tree, getting the back line firm really helps.
With my Squall II, there is a hoop in the back that tends to work forward, putting stakes in front of it keeps it in place, and helps keep the tent taut.
Not sure if this applies to the Double Rainbow ....
Jonathan
5) I am concerned with the height of the exposed screen at the ends of the tent. When pitched in a freestanding mode with trekking poles the coverage ends about 6-7 inches above the ground. In a hard blowing wind I worry about the potential for a soaked sleeping bag. I have yet to set the tent up in a non freestanding mode, maybe that will solve the problem.
I just set it up freestanding and this problem went away. It allowed the ends of the ridge pole to fully extend themselves and the coverage now extends to within 2-3" of the ground and it's farther out from the floor. Problem solved :)...I still have the option of setting the tent up freestanding on a tent pad when I need to, but for the majority of the time I'll stake it out.
With my Squall II, it helps a lot to use an MSR Groundhog or other beefy stake in the back and front. Or tie the back to something like a tree, getting the back line firm really helps.
With my Squall II, there is a hoop in the back that tends to work forward, putting stakes in front of it keeps it in place, and helps keep the tent taut.
Not sure if this applies to the Double Rainbow ....
Jonathan
Bootstrap,
Thanks for the input. I think the general setup of the Squall II and Double Rainbow are quite different, but I did use a similar tactic to help the pitch when I set up freestanding. I placed a stake inside of the horizontal trekking poles at the ends to keep them separated as far as possible. It didn't solve the problem but it helped. As I noted in the above post, staked out is a much better way to set up this tent. Nice to have options though!
Tipi Walter
04-08-2009, 12:29
Engine
Thanks for the first impressions. Please get back with us after 30 or 40 nights in the thing.
FamilyGuy
04-08-2009, 14:48
Lots of reports of using the Rainbow and DR on thru-hikes. Holds up perfect.
Or are you suggesting it be returned for a Staika?
Tipi Walter
04-08-2009, 15:11
Lots of reports of using the Rainbow and DR on thru-hikes. Holds up perfect.
Or are you suggesting it be returned for a Staika?
Too many glowing reports of too many tents are made by too many people after just a weekend trip. No mention of the Staika here, that's your input, not mine. I want to hear a full report by Engine after a hundred nights--in all conditions. Set up, take down, in the rain and the snow, in a terrible open meadow windstorm, on a calm hot night with the noseeums, after a rain when the temps dip down to 15 and everything freezes solid like the poles and the zippers.
Initial impressions if labeled as such are all well and good, but have little to do with a long-term report.
FamilyGuy
04-08-2009, 15:17
Too many glowing reports of too many tents are made by too many people after just a weekend trip. No mention of the Staika here, that's your input, not mine. I want to hear a full report by Engine after a hundred nights--in all conditions. Set up, take down, in the rain and the snow, in a terrible open meadow windstorm, on a calm hot night with the noseeums, after a rain when the temps dip down to 15 and everything freezes solid like the poles and the zippers.
Initial impressions if labeled as such are all well and good, but have little to do with a long-term report.
Snow? It is a 3 season tent. Why would he test it in snow?
Your Trolling is backfiring....no?
Tipi Walter
04-08-2009, 15:23
Snow? It is a 3 season tent. Why would he test it in snow?
Your Trolling is backfiring....no?
It just snowed yesterday here in east Tennessee. Up around 4000 to 5000 feet there were drifts and 8 inches of snow. We ain't out of it yet.:) Maybe Engine set it up yesterday in the snow? On the AT in April it snows. I saw it snow close to Cheoah Bald on April 30th last year.
Initial impressions if labeled as such are all well and good, but have little to do with a long-term report.
the thread is titled 'initial impressions'
Tipi Walter
First the Rainbows can take some snow but of course not a lot of snow.
Unlike you, most people that buy tents like the Tarptents, SMD, BA Seedhouse, Hubbas and the like, (which incidentally constitute the vast majority of shelters used on the AT) , do understand perfectly well that if they wanted to do "winter camping" or high altitude trekking there are better/safer solutions.
BTW have you ever thought why Bermuda shorts are more popular in ... Bermuda than Anchorage ?
Why don't you and your mates set up a booth at Springer warning all of those silly hikers with their silly 2-3lbs tents that the will die because of those inadequate shelters ?
That would be more fun for you and everybody else here. Call it a win win situation.
Franco
Here is your home work for the day. Look up " killjoy " in the dictionary.
Jester2000
04-08-2009, 18:09
Snow? It is a 3 season tent. Why would he test it in snow?
Last year on the PCT it snowed 8 inches on Memorial Day Weekend in Southern California. Sometimes it's nice to know whether a 3-season tent can weather that sort of thing.
Jester2000
04-08-2009, 18:16
Franco -- Here's Tipi Walter's first post:
Engine
Thanks for the first impressions. Please get back with us after 30 or 40 nights in the thing.
In a follow-up post, he explained why he would value a review after the person has more than a first impression. Is there some good reason why you decided to put up such a rude post? I don't know Tipi Walter or you, but I have to wonder at such a snotty, condescending post. Past-history issue?
the thread is titled 'initial impressions'
Good point Wags...pretty clear I thought !:rolleyes:
Looking forward to your review after some nights out.. From my experience it is adequate shelter for speed hiking... Flimsy for handling any real weather. Venting around the bottom leads to a thick mist most nights and ultimately a wet bag by morning here on the Atlantic Coast. Constant guy vigilance is required to keep a taut tent...
I'm interested in hearing your experience.
I will post follow ups as my experience grows (although Tipi went from requiring 30-40 nights to 100 and that may take some time since I work 60+ hours a week:)). I am planning a 6 day trip to GSMNP the first week in May, and a 2+ week trip from Springer to Newfound Gap in Late September to mid October.
As for the question of snow load, the tent has actually had some decent reviews regarding it's ability to withstand a 3-5" snow load as well as 40+ mph winds. My experience may vary of course, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. If I wanted complete "safety" and comfort, I'd never leave the couch.
Jester 2000
Tipi Walter is well known for having a go at people that use L or UL gear.
We all understand that it does not work for him, however his 7 lbs tent , 7 lbs backpack and his 3 lbs mat are not exactly what most folk doing the AP would enjoy using.
See his comments on the Thermarest Testers thread, the one about the Neo Air, as an example.
Tipi has made it very clear that he likes finding faults with gear, I happen to prefer to talk about what works for most on trails like the AP, not what "winter/extreme weather" hikers shouldn't use .
Daja
Constant guy vigilance is required to keep a taut tent...
Silnylon stretches when wet or cold, we know that. Silnylon also happens to be one of the most popular tent fabric material, not just with TT and SMD but also Hilleberg,MH,MSR and several others tent manufacturers.
"constant" is simply the wrong description. Once silnylon is relaxed there is no more stretching, so you you have the tent taut at that point it will remain like that. You need to do that ONCE not constantly.
BTW, do you post the same comments when folk discuss "tarps" ?
( they don't work for me so I don't read those threads)
Engine
It is a well known fact that most accidents happen at home, that is why I moved out.
Franco
FamilyGuy
04-08-2009, 19:12
Last year on the PCT it snowed 8 inches on Memorial Day Weekend in Southern California. Sometimes it's nice to know whether a 3-season tent can weather that sort of thing.
He is talking about the 4th season in 4 season. Trust me.
FamilyGuy
04-08-2009, 19:13
Looking forward to your review after some nights out.. From my experience it is adequate shelter for speed hiking... Flimsy for handling any real weather. Venting around the bottom leads to a thick mist most nights and ultimately a wet bag by morning here on the Atlantic Coast. Constant guy vigilance is required to keep a taut tent...
I'm interested in hearing your experience.
Flimsy? Hahahahaha.
FamilyGuy
04-08-2009, 19:15
I will post follow ups as my experience grows (although Tipi went from requiring 30-40 nights to 100 and that may take some time since I work 60+ hours a week:)). I am planning a 6 day trip to GSMNP the first week in May, and a 2+ week trip from Springer to Newfound Gap in Late September to mid October.
As for the question of snow load, the tent has actually had some decent reviews regarding it's ability to withstand a 3-5" snow load as well as 40+ mph winds. My experience may vary of course, but I'll cross that bridge when I come to it. If I wanted complete "safety" and comfort, I'd never leave the couch.
I concur with that. I have a 9mm pole on my Rainbow and set up two trekking poles at the side (in the supplied grommets) and it handled a foot of wet snow without issue. My Hilleberg Akto on the other hand, an apparent 4 season shelter.......each end collapsed.
Flimsy? Hahahahaha.
I guess in the end I wasn't affraid of the extra 2lbs or so of my REI Seirra Dome, and waking up with a dry bag made the whole experiece much more enjoyable... And yes Flimsy....
And Franco... I'll substitute constant with frequent... In mist and fog, I re-tension the guys several times a night... and in thick fog, guarnteed wet bag...
Jester2000
04-08-2009, 19:54
Jester 2000
Tipi Walter is well known for having a go at people that use L or UL gear. . .
Tipi has made it very clear that he likes finding faults with gear, I happen to prefer to talk about what works for most on trails like the AP, not what "winter/extreme weather" hikers shouldn't use .
Franco
All well and good, Franco, except he didn't appear to be "having a go" at anyone with his posts here. He thanked Engine, asked for a further report, explained that it does snow on the AT and elsewhere when it's not "Season 4."
And when he says:
"Set up, take down, in the rain and the snow, in a terrible open meadow windstorm, on a calm hot night with the noseeums, after a rain when the temps dip down to 15 and everything freezes solid like the poles and the zippers,"
well, I want to know about that. Those are NOT "winter/extreme weather" conditions --ALL of those conditions are conditions I've faced on long trails; I would like Engine to report back when more experience has been had.
If you've had run-ins with Tipi Walter on other posts, fine. Why not leave them there, or at least wait until TW actually says something so objectionable that making yourself look bad is worth it? Because believe me, condescension and sarcasm do make you look bad, regardless of how clever they make you feel, and regardless of how nice a person you actually are.
Engine -- please do report back after your trips. I'm curious to have your impressions after a few nights out in it. Thanks.
I guess in the end I wasn't affraid of the extra 2lbs or so of my REI Seirra Dome, and waking up with a dry bag made the whole experiece much more enjoyable... And yes Flimsy....
And Franco... I'll substitute constant with frequent... In mist and fog, I re-tension the guys several times a night... and in thick fog, guarnteed wet bag...
It looks like you are about ready to toss it. Before you do...I will give you 20 bucks.:rolleyes:
It looks like you are about ready to toss it. Before you do...I will give you 20 bucks.:rolleyes:
I'll go 25!
Tipi Walter
04-08-2009, 20:18
Tipi Walter
First the Rainbows can take some snow but of course not a lot of snow.
Unlike you, most people that buy tents like the Tarptents, SMD, BA Seedhouse, Hubbas and the like, (which incidentally constitute the vast majority of shelters used on the AT) , do understand perfectly well that if they wanted to do "winter camping" or high altitude trekking there are better/safer solutions.
BTW have you ever thought why Bermuda shorts are more popular in ... Bermuda than Anchorage ?
Why don't you and your mates set up a booth at Springer warning all of those silly hikers with their silly 2-3lbs tents that the will die because of those inadequate shelters ?
That would be more fun for you and everybody else here. Call it a win win situation.
Franco
Here is your home work for the day. Look up " killjoy " in the dictionary.
Check out Jester2000's post below. You didn't once mention the whole point of my post: that there are too many glowing reports of too many tents by too many people after too little use. While Engine's review clearly stated it was an initial impression, he said, "I believe I have a tent that will serve us for a long time . . " and yet I don't believe he said in his post that he has spent a single night in the thing. Get back to us, after, okay, just 30 nights of use.
This is not about Tarptent, but if you want to put stock in his setting up impressions and make this about Tarptent, and if I really wanted to pick on Tarptent, I would've quoted him with this: "Getting a taut pitch is mildly problematic now . . .", or this: "When pitched in a freestanding mode with trekking poles, the coverage ends about 6-7 inches above the ground. In a hard blowing wind I worry about the potential for a soaked sleeping bag." So, how much stock do you put in this assessment after no nights of use? You of all people would probably say, well, how can he know about the potential for a soaked sleeping bag if he's never slept in the thing? As a defense for TT, maybe he just hasn't used it enough to know how to set it up to prevent a potential soaking.
Franco -- Here's Tipi Walter's first post:
In a follow-up post, he explained why he would value a review after the person has more than a first impression. Is there some good reason why you decided to put up such a rude post? I don't know Tipi Walter or you, but I have to wonder at such a snotty, condescending post. Past-history issue?
i too, am ****ing bored with franco's quest to outfit every backpacker with a tarptent. that said, i think tipi's posts were pretty off the mark of the post as well...
i think the dude got a new piece of gear and was excited about it. so he set it up and did an intial review of the thing. not all of us are so lucky (or lazy?) to be able to just walk away from the world and go hike whenever the urge strikes. most likely the guy has a family and some sort of job, so he'll have to wait until he has a few days off to go test his gear. /sigh
Tipi Walter
04-08-2009, 20:47
i too, am ****ing bored with franco's quest to outfit every backpacker with a tarptent. that said, i think tipi's posts were pretty off the mark of the post as well...
i think the dude got a new piece of gear and was excited about it. so he set it up and did an intial review of the thing. not all of us are so lucky (or lazy?) to be able to just walk away from the world and go hike whenever the urge strikes. most likely the guy has a family and some sort of job, so he'll have to wait until he has a few days off to go test his gear. /sigh
Uh, how about sleeping out in the backyard with it? Or setting it freestanding mode on a porch, patio or deck? Plenty of bag nights are availabe w/o having to walk away from the world and go hiking. I've tested plenty of gear on decks and in yards.
Dustin_B
04-08-2009, 20:58
I've had a 1 person rainbow since they first came out (3+ years at least) and before they made some minor improvements on them a couple of years ago. I've taken my rainbow all over the world (quite literally) and have endured snow storms, rain storms, and wind storms (sometimes all at once!) in it. I've camped in it at 4500 meters in Tibet when it snowed, weathered all night wind and rain storms above the artic circle (I was in northern Sweden in summer ;-0 ), and taken it on week long mountaineering trips in the north cascades of washington state which included camping on glaciers for multiple nights. I have no idea if I've had a 100 nights in it or not, but I've had a bunch of nights in it. All I know is that it is a hell of shelter for 2 lbs.
During one of my first rain/wind storms in my rainbow, after a hell of a time setting it up (I was solo and the wind was ridiculous), I got into my (down - I always use down) bag and knew I would be wet by morning. Slept on and off constantly waking to see how wet I was getting. I mean the rain was driving. I still don't believe it to this day, as there is a large gap near the floor where rain should have blown in, but my down bag and everything inside the tent was completely dry that morning. I was amazed.
Some problems I've encountered over the years are a slightly bent pole from one of the wind storms. And, during one particularily windy night on a mountaineering trip (I was camped in a col on a glacier) I had to rig up a cross strut on the inside because the wind shifted direction after setup and was collasping one side of the tent. I used a hiking pole (as I nearly always stake the rainbow out) as the strut and at one point it (which was duct taped to the shelter) broke free and punctured the roof. Duct tape worked as a patch for the night until a proper patch could be applied. It lasted the night. The final problem I'll mention is this is a single wall, non breathable shelter. Condensation can be a problem and the shell of my bag has gotten wet on numerous occasions from the condensation. Never detrimentally wet, but slightly wet nonetheless. In my experience condensation occurs about 50% of the time (sometimes slight, sometimes more than slight) and for the life of me seems to be indifferent to the weather in its occurance.
All that said this is a 3 season tent, not a 4 season tent. Is has its limits, and I know just where they are ;-).
I would definitely buy one of these again and I highly recommend them. Between myself and my close friends, I've used 3 or 4 different models of tarptents, some are better than others but the rainbow and double rainbow are at the top of my list.
Wags
Please note that I either start a thread on a Tarptent , particularly to do with mods and suggestions that Tarptent owners may (and do...) like, so avoid those posts or
that I ever only suggest Tarptents or comment about them when appropriate, IE in threads were folk are discussing tarps/tarp tents/ single wall shelter.
You will not find a single post of mine in the hammock forums/threads , nor winter related questions. nor I jump in and tell folk why they should not use an item that I don't like but clearly works for many others.
In case you don't get it, I like tents (and particularly THAT brand) the way Zelph , for example, likes stoves.
Franco
FamilyGuy
04-08-2009, 21:10
I've had a 1 person rainbow since they first came out (3+ years at least) and before they made some minor improvements on them a couple of years ago. I've taken my rainbow all over the world (quite literally) and have endured snow storms, rain storms, and wind storms (sometimes all at once!) in it. I've camped in it at 4500 meters in Tibet when it snowed, weathered all night wind and rain storms above the artic circle (I was in northern Sweden in summer ;-0 ), and taken it on week long mountaineering trips in the north cascades of washington state which included camping on glaciers for multiple nights. I have no idea if I've had a 100 nights in it or not, but I've had a bunch of nights in it. All I know is that it is a hell of shelter for 2 lbs.
During one of my first rain/wind storms in my rainbow, after a hell of a time setting it up (I was solo and the wind was ridiculous), I got into my (down - I always use down) bag and knew I would be wet by morning. Slept on and off constantly waking to see how wet I was getting. I mean the rain was driving. I still don't believe it to this day, as there is a large gap near the floor where rain should have blown in, but my down bag and everything inside the tent was completely dry that morning. I was amazed.
Some problems I've encountered over the years are a slightly bent pole from one of the wind storms. And, during one particularily windy night on a mountaineering trip (I was camped in a col on a glacier) I had to rig up a cross strut on the inside because the wind shifted direction after setup and was collasping one side of the tent. I used a hiking pole (as I nearly always stake the rainbow out) as the strut and at one point it (which was duct taped to the shelter) broke free and punctured the roof. Duct tape worked as a patch for the night until a proper patch could be applied. It lasted the night. The final problem I'll mention is this is a single wall, non breathable shelter. Condensation can be a problem and the shell of my bag has gotten wet on numerous occasions from the condensation. Never detrimentally wet, but slightly wet nonetheless. In my experience condensation occurs about 50% of the time (sometimes slight, sometimes more than slight) and for the life of me seems to be indifferent to the weather in its occurance.
All that said this is a 3 season tent, not a 4 season tent. Is has its limits, and I know just where they are ;-).
I would definitely buy one of these again and I highly recommend them. Between myself and my close friends, I've used 3 or 4 different models of tarptents, some are better than others but the rainbow and double rainbow are at the top of my list.
Thanks a bunch for this.
Tipi Walter
04-08-2009, 21:18
Dustin B--
Now, that's one heck of a review! When you say you've endured snowstorms, rainstorms, windstorms, 4500 meters in Tibet in the snow, above the arctic circle and mountaineering on a glacier, and yet you say:
"This is a 3 season tent, not a 4 season. It has it's limits and I know just where they are." I wonder what you mean? It sounds like you've taken it into some pretty harsh conditions that would translate to a four season tent in my mind. What are "real" four season conditions and in what way would the tent reach it's limits? Deep snowfall? Hellish winds? From your description it sounds like you've encountered pretty much everything.
Uh, how about sleeping out in the backyard with it? Or setting it freestanding mode on a porch, patio or deck? Plenty of bag nights are availabe w/o having to walk away from the world and go hiking. I've tested plenty of gear on decks and in yards.
this information is a far cry from your post earlier about a long term report...
oh franco i get it alright :D
Tipi Walter
04-08-2009, 21:28
this information is a far cry from your post earlier about a long term report...
oh franco i get it alright :D
Have you never slept in a tent in the backyard for a whole winter? You'll find out real fast how it works in the wind and blowing snow. Not to mention how you're sleeping system will do in the subzero temps. Just because a person is 25 feet from a house does not limit the usefulness of tent testing and getting bag nights. It ain't a full blown backpacking trip, but it's a sure test of both a tent and a sleeping bag/pad system.
A long term report of a tent can easily be given after spending a winter in the thing, even in a backyard. The only thing missing is how it fits in or on the pack, all the rest, the setting up, the taking down, how it does in the wind, the rain, the snow and ice, etc, can all be surveyed in a backyard camp. But it has to be used and slept in every night, not just left empty to rot.
franco...thinks he knows all about tents,but yet backs HS to a sick feeling and not seeing the other side.Have you seen his SETUP TIME ....boy.
skinewmexico
04-08-2009, 21:51
Hey Dustin, did you ever think about sending your Rainbow back, and having the updates (like the grommets to use trekking poles for a brace) done?
Jayboflavin04
04-08-2009, 23:09
WOW....This is like a soap opera in here!!!! Be right back....gonna make some popcorn....
WOW....This is like a soap opera in here!!!! Be right back....gonna make some popcorn....
You are right.I like SMD due to size,HS makes great stuff hands down...but not for me.Franco is a all out HS guy...but he will try to hide in his wording to cover his but.:-?
Now is tipi wrong in lite snow or is franco right in a heavy snow load.:D
tipi i understand the concept of a long term report and its value. however this thread is a "1st impression" thread. the guy never claimed to have done anything other than set it up and look at it...
Matteroo
04-09-2009, 04:02
***itching city! tarptents work great for us if you want to see long-term test reports go to backpackgeartest DOT org and checkem out! we use a double rainbow out here in oregon.
used a squall 2 on the AT and of course condensation sometimes, same as dustin reports -- never got our down bags anything more than damp on the outside. for the weight savings, any issues with condensation were definitely mitigated. it kept us dry enough in all the conditions we experienced to let us sleep soundly and comfortably.
your level of comfort may not match ours. your level of hyper-sensitivity with down getting damp may not be my level of sensitivity. so, if its not, then probably a different product works better for you and you should be happy to have found something that works for you, and be happy that i have something that works for me, ultimately, allowing us to be outdoors and enjoying the outdoors for the reasons we individually have. anything else is gear sniffing whiner complainer internets crap.
Uh, how about sleeping out in the backyard with it? Or setting it freestanding mode on a porch, patio or deck? Plenty of bag nights are availabe w/o having to walk away from the world and go hiking. I've tested plenty of gear on decks and in yards.
What a coincidence, I slept in the backyard with it last night. In 29 more nights I'll let everyone know how things are going. But for now I will report that it does a crappy job of keeping traffic noise out...;)
Tipi Walter
04-09-2009, 08:38
What a coincidence, I slept in the backyard with it last night. In 29 more nights I'll let everyone know how things are going. But for now I will report that it does a crappy job of keeping traffic noise out...;)
Maybe for urban testing purposes the tent should come with a good set of earplugs. I have some I highly recommend. Flents. Anyway, I'm glad you got inside it and pulled a bag night. Now, when you get up in the morning, take it down and hang it to dry somewhere. After the day's business and when you're ready to sleep, go out and set it up by headlamp and do another bag night. Repeat this cycle until you get to see some wind and rain in the thing. By the time your backpacking trip comes, there will be no surprises, at least tent-wise.
Maybe for urban testing purposes the tent should come with a good set of earplugs. I have some I highly recommend. Flents. Anyway, I'm glad you got inside it and pulled a bag night. Now, when you get up in the morning, take it down and hang it to dry somewhere. After the day's business and when you're ready to sleep, go out and set it up by headlamp and do another bag night. Repeat this cycle until you get to see some wind and rain in the thing. By the time your backpacking trip comes, there will be no surprises, at least tent-wise.
As for drying, 2 minutes this morning with a Shamwow and I had an acceptably dry tent. Nothing would have stayed dry last night with the amount of dew we had here though. As for the rest of last nights test, I did discover that a thin pad and a recent shoulder injury don't mix, but that's why we test stuff. Maybe I'll have to break out the old 1" self inflating pad for the next test.
Tipi Walter
04-09-2009, 11:51
As for drying, 2 minutes this morning with a Shamwow and I had an acceptably dry tent. Nothing would have stayed dry last night with the amount of dew we had here though. As for the rest of last nights test, I did discover that a thin pad and a recent shoulder injury don't mix, but that's why we test stuff. Maybe I'll have to break out the old 1" self inflating pad for the next test.
Now we're talkin'! How bad was the dew? Sometimes it gets so bad that stuff inside even gets wet. I'm glad you got to sleep on a too-thin pad and find out about replacing it before actually leaving with it for a trip. That's what it's all about: backyard testing!
Now we're talkin'! How bad was the dew? Sometimes it gets so bad that stuff inside even gets wet. I'm glad you got to sleep on a too-thin pad and find out about replacing it before actually leaving with it for a trip. That's what it's all about: backyard testing!
1) The dew was bad enough that walking from the back yard 50 feet to the back door my shoes got soaked. As far as the inside of the tent, I had to wring out the Shamwow a couple times while wiping but it all stuck to the walls and never dripped on anything. We did sleep with the tent wide open and that may have allowed more moisture than had we closed up, but I doubt it (time will tell). Overall I found it to be an acceptable amount and I've seen it that bad in my old Clip Flashlight.
2) I'm debating about how to solve the sleeping pad problem. Reviews on the Neo Air are positive, but I'm not made of money so I'll keep looking for a solution that keeps weight down while providing enough padding to allow me to still move my arm if I roll onto that side for awhile.
FamilyGuy
04-09-2009, 13:15
Now we're talkin'! How bad was the dew? Sometimes it gets so bad that stuff inside even gets wet. I'm glad you got to sleep on a too-thin pad and find out about replacing it before actually leaving with it for a trip. That's what it's all about: backyard testing!
Nice save.
Jester2000
04-09-2009, 15:00
First off -- Dustin, thanks for the info.
But for now I will report that it does a crappy job of keeping traffic noise out...;)
Ha ha!
As for drying, 2 minutes this morning with a Shamwow and I had an acceptably dry tent.
Hey, how come that guy didn't mention this use in the infomercial? Shamwow!
skinewmexico
04-09-2009, 15:05
1) 2) I'm debating about how to solve the sleeping pad problem. Reviews on the Neo Air are positive, but I'm not made of money so I'll keep looking for a solution that keeps weight down while providing enough padding to allow me to still move my arm if I roll onto that side for awhile.
I've had great luck with my POE Ether Thermo 6, for about half the cost of the NeoAir. And it comes with a stuff sack and repair kit. Works great if you don't have to have the latest and greatest.
I've had great luck with my POE Ether Thermo 6, for about half the cost of the NeoAir. And it comes with a stuff sack and repair kit. Works great if you don't have to have the latest and greatest.
Thanks for the heads up. I looked at it and it seems like a nice alternative to the Therma-Rest.
Jim Adams
04-09-2009, 22:03
Jester 2000
Tipi Walter is well known for having a go at people that use L or UL gear.
We all understand that it does not work for him, however his 7 lbs tent , 7 lbs backpack and his 3 lbs mat are not exactly what most folk doing the AP would enjoy using.
See his comments on the Thermarest Testers thread, the one about the Neo Air, as an example.
Tipi has made it very clear that he likes finding faults with gear, I happen to prefer to talk about what works for most on trails like the AP, not what "winter/extreme weather" hikers shouldn't use .
Daja
Constant guy vigilance is required to keep a taut tent...
Silnylon stretches when wet or cold, we know that. Silnylon also happens to be one of the most popular tent fabric material, not just with TT and SMD but also Hilleberg,MH,MSR and several others tent manufacturers.
"constant" is simply the wrong description. Once silnylon is relaxed there is no more stretching, so you you have the tent taut at that point it will remain like that. You need to do that ONCE not constantly.
BTW, do you post the same comments when folk discuss "tarps" ?
( they don't work for me so I don't read those threads)
Franco
I agree with TPW, I would very much like to know how much he likes his tarptent after 30-40 nights in various weather.
Most of the people that I know that got rid of their tarptents did so because they were tired of the constant maintenance to keep them taut and erect. Go with a 3 lb. free standing tent and be donw with all the work.
geek
Jayboflavin04
04-09-2009, 22:15
lets Get Ready To Ruuuummmmbbbble!
I agree with TPW, I would very much like to know how much he likes his tarptent after 30-40 nights in various weather.
Most of the people that I know that got rid of their tarptents did so because they were tired of the constant maintenance to keep them taut and erect. Go with a 3 lb. free standing tent and be donw with all the work.
geek
I pitched it, came back in an hour and tightened things up, never bothered with it again. After all the dew we had it was pretty wet and it was still very taut. I have only spent one night in THIS tent, but I've spent hundreds of nights in many tents from MSR, SD, Eureka, etc...Based on previous experience and knowing what makes a good tent I'd have to say this one is a winner. In 12 months I may not think so, but if that turns out to be the case I'm not too proud to admit I was wrong. I'll fill people in on how it goes.
Jim Adams
04-10-2009, 07:55
I pitched it, came back in an hour and tightened things up, never bothered with it again. After all the dew we had it was pretty wet and it was still very taut. I have only spent one night in THIS tent, but I've spent hundreds of nights in many tents from MSR, SD, Eureka, etc...Based on previous experience and knowing what makes a good tent I'd have to say this one is a winner. In 12 months I may not think so, but if that turns out to be the case I'm not too proud to admit I was wrong. I'll fill people in on how it goes.
I didn't mean to sound so down but I know alot of people that just got tired of the constant maintenance. Good luck with your tent, I hope that it works well for you and you do like it. I would like to hear your thoughts a year from now.
geek
Jayboflavin04
04-10-2009, 09:03
Engine.....Check out my phono gallery. I own a cloudburst 2. I set it up once before I took it out. First Night out. Temps dropped to 20ish and the wind was gusting(I am guessing around 10-20mph). The ground was very soft! I used MSR ground hogs. The wrinkles in the sides were created by me using the side guy outs. I restaked it once about 15min after I set it up. In the morning the inside was covered with ice crystals, and you couldnt see out of the back bug mesh because of ice build up. I wiped it down and it was dry enough to pack within a matter of minutes.
My buddy was with me and this was his very first backcountry experience, and he had no complaints of either being cold or wet.
ENJOY YOUR TENT!
i wonder if rigging a shamwow (or similar) to hang from the tent roof would serve as a moisture collector on dewey and foggy nights???
met 2 thru's last night (feb 1st start) at peter's mountain shelter. one of them had the new neo-air and he really liked it (he said he didn't have any issues w/ cold). said it was expensive tho
FamilyGuy
04-10-2009, 13:24
i wonder if rigging a shamwow (or similar) to hang from the tent roof would serve as a moisture collector on dewey and foggy nights???
met 2 thru's last night (feb 1st start) at peter's mountain shelter. one of them had the new neo-air and he really liked it (he said he didn't have any issues w/ cold). said it was expensive tho
There is an inner liner that Henry offers on the Rainbow that prevents condensation from dripping should it occur. Like a double walled configuration.
There is an inner liner that Henry offers on the Rainbow that prevents condensation from dripping should it occur. Like a double walled configuration.
I looked at those when I ordered the tent, but decided I would try it without it and see how it went. If I eventually want one, at the $30.00 price, I could make one for less money that probably weighed less (4 oz. for the original). The clips for it are in the tent and they are great for hanging things like a headlamp, clothesline for long rainy days, etc...
brooklynkayak
04-10-2009, 23:55
What a coincidence, I slept in the backyard with it last night. In 29 more nights I'll let everyone know how things are going. But for now I will report that it does a crappy job of keeping traffic noise out...;)
:)
And another thing, my big screen TV doesn't fit and there is no allowance for electrical outlets/air conditioning in the summer. Not enough insulation in the winter as tarptents seem to not hold in much heat. This requires me to use my sleeping bag to keep me warm when it's cold, an unacceptable concept in my opinion:p
I have about two months worth of camping in mine now. most of it has been said. I have yet to be in a real rain storm but an interesting situation camp up in Zion on the west rim trial. We had to set up camp on the ridge in the strongest wind I have ever camped in. My Group had several tents. a 3 person sierra design dome tent, REI 2 person dome tent, a golite solo and MH solo. I was in my DR. we had to use guy lines on ever tent. I was the first time I had use them on my new DR. I was kinda shocked there was not more places to tie the guy lines and at the time I didnt know that the grommets in the vents were for more hiking poles.
GOOD: Its stood up to the wind as well or better that the tents that were twice as heavy.
Not so good: woke up in the middle of the night covered in dust from wind. I mean covered. it was in all the depressions in the sleeping pad, it was in my eye and I could not breath. luckily it was dry, we blocked up the front and back of the tent with out packs and extra cloths. I have been reading and I wish there was a way to adjust the hight of the two ends of the tent and "batten down the hatches" more for windy weather.
good: its a LONG tent good for tall people. Even with back packs at our heads and feet we still had room left over to stretch out.
to be fair I have to say that dust got in every tent not just mine, but there was more in mine.
Most of the people that I know that got rid of their tarptents did so because they were tired of the constant maintenance to keep them taut and erect. Go with a 3 lb. free standing tent and be donw with all the work.
geek
All I can add is that I've backpacked for 30+ years. I've used Sierra Designs, Eureka, Gossamer Gear, Six Moon Designs, Speer, and GoLite. I've never had a tent that didn't require one or more adjustments in order to keep a tight pitch. Especially as temps, moisture and wind conditions changed.
It's just an assumption on my part that a chunk of lightweight fabric, held taught with nylon-type cord will stretch or contract and require adjustment. Not really that big of deal if you set it up with easy adjustment in mind.
"Most of the people that I know that got rid of their tarptents did so because they were tired of the constant maintenance to keep them taut and erect"
well I did not bother to replay to that then, but here we go.
When wet and or cold silnylon stretches up to about 15% . Hard to believe but once it is fully "relaxed" it has no more to give so contrary to the comments made by folk that either do not have this type of material or don't get the idea , if you tighten your shelter once it is relaxed it will remain so all night. People that have camped next to me under all night rain or cold weather will know that my TTs still look the same in the morning as they did the night before.
If you see a saggy sil tent it is simply because the owner does not know how to set it up or could not be bothered with it .
Here is a good example of a clueless person...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW2dKsLdHWg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW2dKsLdHWg)
note the angle of those guylines for a start...
Franco
squeezebox
11-24-2009, 23:09
So for proper set up you're saying just tighten up the tent after it relaxes after a while.
I would appreciate your opinion of the Squall 2 vs. the double rainbow. the squall 2 is a bit lighter. does the Double rainbow have steeper walls therefore more interior room?
Plan B would be one of the 4 lb tents like the REI quarter dome for example.
Please help a newbie.
Thanks!
Hi Bryce
Yes first have the guylines at the correct angle , you can pull sideways as much as you like but that is not going to make the front stand up...
Next, yes it is really just matter of tightening once it is relaxed, period.
If silnylon kept expanding as some seem to think, my solo shelters should be just about a group tent by now.
Now if a peg pops out, guess whose fault is that ?
I really only get excited about single shelters. Occasionally I stick my nose into doubles but only because they are still tents and some shapes ( most actually) work better with doubles*.From a theoretical point of view only, the DR is more aerodynamic therefore it will shed cross winds better. It is also an hybrid since you do have a mesh wall on either side, that creates a bit of a buffer between the fly and you.
Most choose purely on their own preference between front and side entrance. I prefer the side yet I mostly use the Contrail...
I should really get the Moment because I think it is a fabulous design yet I am afraid that if I do that I may never use my beloved Contrail again. So you think you have problems deciding ?
BTW, interior room is not the cubic feet available as some measure but has to do with usable space (as you hint at with the steep wall comment) On top of that it depends on how you perceive space. For example I prefer to have some room on top of my face when laying down (at 5'7" I have plenty inside the Rainbow) others will report to be comfortable when clearly the fly is almost touching their nose.
Recently I was reading a comment from a guy saying that he could sit up comfortably inside his tent, yet the picture he published clearly showed a bump in the fabric corresponding to the shape of his head...(he was slouching and in the center of his tent)
Franco
* If you look at The Rainbow and the DR you should see that the Rainbow is a DR with a bit missing...(one is symmetrical,the other isn't)
"Most of the people that I know that got rid of their tarptents did so because they were tired of the constant maintenance to keep them taut and erect"
well I did not bother to replay to that then, but here we go.
When wet and or cold silnylon stretches up to about 15% . Hard to believe but once it is fully "relaxed" it has no more to give so contrary to the comments made by folk that either do not have this type of material or don't get the idea , if you tighten your shelter once it is relaxed it will remain so all night. People that have camped next to me under all night rain or cold weather will know that my TTs still look the same in the morning as they did the night before.
If you see a saggy sil tent it is simply because the owner does not know how to set it up or could not be bothered with it .
Here is a good example of a clueless person...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW2dKsLdHWg (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vW2dKsLdHWg)
note the angle of those guylines for a start...
Franco
Do YOU THINK...YOU AT SOME POINT ARE WRONG?
Well I don't know. You tell me ...
When I trip over a crack on the footpath, I blame myself. Others sue the City Council. We all have an opinion...
Franco
Slow
I know that you delight in taking shots at Tarpent and tend to surface only to do that, but you really need to realise that for a start Ron and Henry are good mates. Second the very first shelter Ron made was a Tarptent . The silnylon used by the two is exactly the same so there is very little point of you raving about your SMD shelter and rubbishing the TT as you often do.
As far as setting up shelters correctly, obviously Ron Moak has a similar view to mine, see this thread from SMD :
http://community.sixmoondesigns.com/blogs/ronmoak/archive/2008/07/01/lunar-solo-the-perfect-pitch.aspx (http://community.sixmoondesigns.com/blogs/ronmoak/archive/2008/07/01/lunar-solo-the-perfect-pitch.aspx)
Franco
squeezebox
11-25-2009, 01:24
Please tell me about silnylon
Silnylon
For Very light (1.1 to 1.6 oz per sq yard ) and strong for the weight (originally it was and still is , parachute material)
Stretches . The good bit is that it has some "give" under stress.
Does not wet out. Shake it down and it will weigh about the same as dry
It does not suffer from mould even if stored wet.
Against :
the seems need to be sealed by the user (too expensive for the manufacturer to do as you have to set up each tent to do it..)
Some manufacturers put a PU coating on the underside,seam sealing tape will stick to that. The disadvantage of the PU coating is that it will perish and is subject to mould if not dried and stored correctly (see sticky tent fly comments)
Stretches when cold and or wet. (your shelter will sag so you need to re-tension it)
BTW, if you have your cold shelter nice and taut and you live it out in the sun, it will shrink enough to pull out well placed pegs if not rip.
Not waterproof enough for some. The version used by the cottage manufacturers is rated at around 1200mm. Epic (Black Diamond and GoLite) is about 800. Some silnylon (with heavier coatings) is 2000 or more.
In practice it works but you can get some minor misting if the rain drops are big enough.
For some the advantages outweighs the disadvantages. Macpac , for example, have the 2010 range of tents in silnylon. Yes you do need to seal them but they are 20-30% lighter (and provably stronger) than before.
The only tent material that ticks all the boxes and has no downside whatsoever is Unobtanium.
Franco
Some of the above are facts, other bits just the way I see it...
bigcranky
11-25-2009, 17:07
.
I would appreciate your opinion of the Squall 2 vs. the double rainbow. the squall 2 is a bit lighter. does the Double rainbow have steeper walls therefore more interior room
I have an opinion. Several, in fact. These opinions are based on my experience with each shelter used by myself, and with my wife.
Squall: lightweight, limited head room, tunnel entrance. Great for one, tight for two. No room for gear inside with two people. Nice and light, though.
Double Rainbow: Love the two doors -- great for views and easy entrance/exit. Very easy to set up. The long sides slope in, though, which limits headroom, and we just found it too cramped for two people. I use it as a solo shelter now, and love it.
Rainshadow: this is a 3 person shelter, which is GREAT for two people and gear. Love it. The new version has a better door system and more headroom. Our original Rainshadow actually slept 3 adult people, though without much room inside for gear.
Six Moons Designs Lunar Duo: this is our current two-person backpacking shelter. Harder to set up than the Double Rainbow. The long sides are vertical, which gives better protection in rain, and a HUGE amount of interior room. The interior volume has to be seen to be believed. We can easily fit ourselves and all our gear inside, and there is more room in the well-placed vestibules on each side. Two doors and two vestibules make for easy entry/exit, good views, and excellent ventilation.
Franco,The last post,you can take to the BANK.
Red Beard
11-26-2009, 08:06
BTW, if you have your cold shelter nice and taut and you live it out in the sun, it will shrink enough to pull out well placed pegs if not rip.
Yikes! I assume that means if you're going to go with a Tarptent, get up first thing, dry it (shake it off really well), and pack it.
No big deal really, I do this anyway. Thanks for all the info on Tarptents Franco, you've really opened my eyes.
Yikes! I assume that means if you're going to go with a Tarptent, get up first thing, dry it (shake it off really well), and pack it.
No big deal really, I do this anyway. Thanks for all the info on Tarptents Franco, you've really opened my eyes.
No need to rush packing. It will not contract so much as to rip it until it is very warm and sunny, if then. The potential is there, but not probable. If you leave it up until late in the day to dry out, or on a zero day, just keep an eye on it and when it starts getting extra taught, relax the lines a bit. Not that big of deal, just something to be aware of. This has been true for as long as I've been backpacking, with any kind of nylon.
Funny thing is that shrinkage happens when it gets hot, the opposite of what George experienced in that Seinfeld episode..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cUNNKzj_Nc (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cUNNKzj_Nc)
Two accidents I had because of shrinkage.
One when I first had the Rainbow I was fiddling with it in my backyard (as I do with every new tent). I had that set up in the morning. By the time I was ready to dismantle it it was in the afternoon sun(it was about 105 f) . I broke a pole segment doing it.
HS ,after that , added a grommet at each end of the pole to allow for shrinkage.
The second episode I was camped next to a river (my mate was fishing) and we had a cool and damp night (what do you expect ...)
Because we were spending another day there I went for a walk late in the morning.The temperature was up to about 70f but the shelter was in the shade , nice and taut. At around 3 PM when I came back it was under a 38c (100f) sun. The tent was tight as a drum and the mid rear peg (the one I add to the Contrail) was a few meters away .
So it will happen only going from low temps and or wet tent to full sun, not just after an hour or so from getting up.
Franco
MedicineMan
11-27-2009, 00:45
Franco,
the TT Moment---seems reminiscient of the Hilleberg Akto--any design differences to note? I'm not a tenter but I do love tent design.
Medicine Man
Half of the weight ?
Half the price ?
They are really very different shelters, so no direct comparisons here.
I call the Moment "The Scarp Lite" but don't tell anyone.
Not sure why, but there are dozens of single hoop tents out there yet when some people look at the Scarp or the Moment they think of the Akto. Most European based manufactures have that design. But it has been done over there too. for example the MH Stiletto.
I have to say that one amusing comment (to me) was someone noting at BPL that a certain new pyramid tent looks like another existing pyramid tent. No , really ???
Anyway, I see the Moment as an easy to pitch version of that single hoop design, lighter than most and with lots of ventilation.
Some will gloss over , but pretty much all of the European versions suffer from condensation. But it is a fine balance between weather protection and trapping moisture.
BTW, I have no doubt that most will find the Akto better suited for some winter conditions. The Moment is meant to be a 3 season tent.
Franco
MedicineMan
11-27-2009, 04:07
Well I did catch someone's comment about the Akto'd ends quickly collapsing in a snow.
I've got an Akto and put it on a major diet and got it down to 2.3 pounds (tent inner and outer, pole,stakes)...the Moment is 1.78 pounds....what kills the Hilleberg product is the outrageous price...maybe their kerlon is a tougher fabric but $420 is insane and is far more than I paid for mine-sadly it sits with a thick layer of dust. I do like the Momen'ts ability to freestand. If I were purchasing a onemanner again it'd be the Moment.
Medicine Man
we have hijacked this thread...
I have a mate that designs tents in Hong Kong. After a few years of pestering him has finally decided to try silnylon. He now estimates his production cost to be about twice as much the previous fabric (polyester).
Kerlon is (as far as I know) made especially for Hilleberg, so I would think that it is rather expensive compared to material that is made in quantity for several applications . Standard silnylon is used for parachutes , including the ones on drag racing cars.
As I stated above the Moment is not competing with the Akto, but the Scarp is.
Now the Scarp is $300 , add the cost of more expensive fabric and a retail mark up and you will get to around the $440 mark.
I mentioned before that in a smaller space that a local shop took up with 4-6 tents , I turned over several million dollars of photographic gear. The point is that you need a good mark up to justify the floor space.
Franco