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Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 06:08
I just want to say this, the law here in Damascus does not give a damn if anyone smokes pot and the Methodist church does not care either. But what the methodist church does care about is if it is being done on their property that they offer as a cheap service to the hiking community and they have a right to say no to anyone at The Place with alcohol or illegal drugs. They also have a right to enforce that rule by any means possible.

Doughnut
04-12-2009, 06:30
That deserves an Easter Sunday resounding "AMEN".

DoughNut

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 06:42
and i can tell you this, LEOs WILL be running drug sniffing canines thru the building. they were there yesterday with a very cool german shepard. one hiker was caught with a very small amount.

rickb
04-12-2009, 06:47
and i can tell you this, LEOs WILL be running drug sniffing canines thru the building. they were there yesterday with a very cool german shepard. one hiker was caught with a very small amount.

Police dogs used randomly in a hostel is not cool. If its come to that, better to shut the place down.

fiddlehead
04-12-2009, 06:56
and i can tell you this, LEOs WILL be running drug sniffing canines thru the building. they were there yesterday with a very cool german shepard. one hiker was caught with a very small amount.

That really sucks.
I agree with Rickb.

nufsaid
04-12-2009, 06:57
Police dogs are not cool. If its come to that, better to shut the place down.

Police dogs are wonderful. People who flaunt the law and rules of a place trying to offer services to the hiking public at extremely low prices are not cool.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 07:02
Police dogs used randomly in a hostel is not cool. If its come to that, better to shut the place down.


That really sucks.
I agree with Rickb.

no sympathy. time and time again these hikers break the clearly written, simple posted rules. maybe this will be the year it gets shut down. all the future folks that walk thru this town will suffer by not having a cheap place to stay. the "hiker community" has proven they can't come into town and be respectful

rickb
04-12-2009, 07:05
Sympathy is not the issue. Not going to debate.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 07:07
Sympathy is not the issue. Not going to debate.

you'll lose any debate. come live here for one hiker season. your tune will change

Engine
04-12-2009, 07:18
It all boils down to selfishness and a lack of respect for others really. Kind, caring people have provided a wonderful service to our hiking community and some thoughtless, selfish individuals feel it is okay to ignore the rules of this and other establishments for their personal "enjoyment".

If you don't agree with the policy of an enterprise, then don't use their services. Feel free to voice your opinion in a sensible manner, but don't impose on others by behaving as if the rules don't apply to you! :mad:

Homer&Marje
04-12-2009, 07:19
Ya'll should pass proposition two. Stop wasting money on drug dogs...put it back towards the hiker community in other ways.:D

I'm not saying people shouldn't obey the rules/regulations/laws that are in place NOW. It's real easy to follow rules if one wants to.

Lyle
04-12-2009, 07:55
My only comment:

While it is well within the rights of the Church to enforce their no alcohol/no pot rules, and these rules should be respected willingly, using random searches by drug dogs seems a bit extreme. I agree perhaps it should be closed down, if not permanently, then for a season. That should get the message out loud and clear.

I do not smoke, use mind altering drugs, and very seldom drink alcohol. But many thru and section hikers do. My point is that hikers are carrying their homes on their backs. If they have pot, what are they to do with it while staying at the Place?

Good folks, who may abide by the rules and refrain from using while at the Place will get caught up in these "sweeps" as well as the inconsiderates who would flaunt the rules.

I know those who support this action will say "So what, they brought it onto the property" but I think that is a pretty narrow minded view. It is sad that it has come to this point. I have some fond memories of time spent at the Place.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 07:58
are guns allowed at the place?

Marta
04-12-2009, 08:03
My only comment:

If they have pot, what are they to do with it while staying at the Place?



The Place is not the only game in town. There are other places to stay, and one can make a good case for not staying in town at all, but resupplying and hiking on through.

I'm not going to debate the pros of drug laws and enforcement (mostly because I think there aren't any pros), but the situation is what it is, and hikers should know about it ahead of time, and make their plans accordingly. To LW's point, if there hadn't been so many bad apples passing through The Place, the police would never have become involved in trying to enforce the rules.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 08:04
My only comment:

While it is well within the rights of the Church to enforce their no alcohol/no pot rules, and these rules should be respected willingly, using random searches by drug dogs seems a bit extreme. I agree perhaps it should be closed down, if not permanently, then for a season. That should get the message out loud and clear.

I do not smoke, use mind altering drugs, and very seldom drink alcohol. But many thru and section hikers do. My point is that hikers are carrying their homes on their backs. If they have pot, what are they to do with it while staying at the Place?

Good folks, who may abide by the rules and refrain from using while at the Place will get caught up in these "sweeps" as well as the inconsiderates who would flaunt the rules.

I know those who support this action will say "So what, they brought it onto the property" but I think that is a pretty narrow minded view. It is sad that it has come to this point. I have some fond memories of time spent at the Place.

"if they have pot, what are they to do with it while staying at the Place?" it's illegal. who cares what they do with it. go stay somewhere else or sffer the consequences. it's really simple

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 08:14
weed's ill-eagle and ya aint s'possed to have it in there ,but will they be doing random sniff tests when walkin down the street next??

Grampie
04-12-2009, 08:17
More and more services given to hikers for free or for little costs are being withdrawn because of abuse by the few. In order to keep these services available to hikers the folks who abide by the rules should remind those who don't. Some time it may take a little more effort than just a reminder.
If we do our own policeing we won't need outside help.:-?

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 08:18
you'll lose any debate. come live here for one hiker season. your tune will change
:-? they should re-route the trail around the town if the town folks don't like the annual influx of hikers. then the tune would change. tolerance
hi lone wolf, hope you and miss gypsy are back in the game and feelin the best as humanly possible!!:sun

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 08:19
weed's ill-eagle and ya aint s'possed to have it in there ,but will they be doing random sniff tests when walkin down the street next??

if you are carrying and you see an officer with a dog, is it a random test or are you just too stupid to walk the other way?

fiddlehead
04-12-2009, 08:22
weed's ill-eagle and ya aint s'possed to have it in there ,but will they be doing random sniff tests when walkin down the street next??

And where would it stop? I can see it now, drug dogs at all the gaps.

With all the killings happening in the country anymore, i'm surprised they're worried about a little pot.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 08:24
And where would it stop? I can see it now, drug dogs at all the gaps.

With all the killings happening in the country anymore, i'm surprised they're worried about a little pot.

the drug dogs were invited to the place. now it's silly time for the drug crowd... or should i say the paranoid crowd... :-?

superman
04-12-2009, 08:30
Good news for whacky weed smokers! There's a real nice place to stay over in Abingdon. I've stayed there during Tail Days in 2000 and few times after that. It's dog freindly and they don't search anything. Nice big tv that gets Animal Planet. I think it only cost me $120 a night.:-?

PS I don't even smoke regular cigarettes.

Doughnut
04-12-2009, 08:32
It ain't about drugs, IMO, it's about respect for other's property.

You pay to stay, you are a guest, period, No drugs means just that.

Same for alcohol, drugs, muddy boots, loud noises, etc...

DoughNut

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 08:34
if you are carrying and you see an officer with a dog, is it a random test or are you just too stupid to walk the other way?
i don't indulge in smoking the weed. smoking anything aint good for your health.
i don't think we need cops walking down the streets of the united states of america sniffing out pot smokers. money could be better spent

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 08:37
i don't indulge in smoking the weed. smoking anything aint good for your health.
i don't think we need cops walking down the streets of the united states of america sniffing out pot smokers. money could be better spent

drug sniffing dogs aren't patrolling the streets crissakes... but they do have to get from the car to the place

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 08:38
Wow, what a waste of time and resources. Is Damascus really that boring?

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 08:39
It ain't about drugs, IMO, it's about respect for other's property.

You pay to stay, you are a guest, period, No drugs means just that.

Same for alcohol, drugs, muddy boots, loud noises, etc...

DoughNut

actually it is about the drugs... you won't be busted for the other stuff

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 08:39
drug sniffing dogs aren't patrolling the streets crissakes... but they do have to get from the car to the place

Why don't they? Why not just walk them around everywhere, 24 hours a day? Someone might have weed:eek:

MintakaCat
04-12-2009, 08:39
i don't think we need cops walking down the streets of the united states of america sniffing out pot smokers.

Dang, I missed that part of the story. Where did we drift off onto this? LOL

Lyle
04-12-2009, 08:40
Ok, final comment - really.

Damascus has for years put itself out to the hiking community as an "over the top" party town, officially sanctioned. Now they wonder why hikers are coming into the town with a party attitude. They don't seem to mind when they are making big bucks off the crowds.

Close it down. My opinion of Damascus is diminishing.

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 08:40
you'll lose any debate. come live here for one hiker season. your tune will change
Ah, 'tis is true!

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 08:44
Ok, final comment - really.

Damascus has for years put itself out to the hiking community as an "over the top" party town, officially sanctioned. Now they wonder why hikers are coming into the town with a party attitude. They don't seem to mind when they are making big bucks off the crowds.

Close it down. My opinion of Damascus is diminishing.

come party here, doesn't translate into bring your illegal drugs here. duh!

Lyle
04-12-2009, 08:46
come party here, doesn't translate into bring your illegal drugs here. duh!


Yes it does, in today's society - duh!

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 08:47
Why don't they? Why not just walk them around everywhere, 24 hours a day? Someone might have weed:eek:

hey funny guy, ever hear of probable cause? no? you must be one of those against all government action, including laws that respect personal privacy

Lugnut
04-12-2009, 08:48
You warned 'em TOW. Now, get outside and get to selling! :banana

PS Happy Easter.

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 08:49
the drug dogs were invited to the place. now it's silly time for the drug crowd... or should i say the paranoid crowd... :-?
This is just my opinion and my opinion only, those who knowingly and blatantly break the simple rule of no alky or druggy at The Place are sometimes the same ones that trash it and never pay for their stay.

Of course most of you who see this in a different view will disagree with me. And with that I extend my hand out to you to come and stay a season and observe this behavior.......

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 08:50
Wow, what a waste of time and resources. Is Damascus really that boring?
We really need the money that bad.......

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 08:52
come party here, doesn't translate into bring your illegal drugs here. duh!
:-? i can see it now,
leos lockin up all the fine party folks drinking al coo haul in publik too.
the question is where is the line drawn, not if they're walkin down the streets wif the dope dogs.
i guess drinkin leomonade and eatin apple pie wif junior and the fam is what trail days should be about.
p.s. never been to trail days and probably will never go to trail days. and as for drugs in the place?? no they shouldn't be there. period!:-?

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 08:55
i think the warning is lost on the clueless, but here goes anyway...

bring your illegal drugs to trail days... along with bail money and a phone number of a local lawyer





personally, i have no issues with weed. people who don't get respect for property and heightened law enforcement of said property or during an event like trail days is a different matter. good luck with that.

-----
happy easter! :sun

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 08:55
hey funny guy, ever hear of probable cause? no? you must be one of those against all government action, including laws that respect personal privacy

You don't need probable cause to walk a sniffer around, smart guy. The Supreme Court has already ruled that a dog's nose is unbiased.

Sly
04-12-2009, 08:58
What a backwards town. From police chiefs selling meth to pot sniffing dogs in the hostel.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 09:01
You don't need probable cause to walk a sniffer around, smart guy. The Supreme Court has already ruled that a dog's nose is unbiased.

taking a leap from walking the dog thru the place to checking road crossings and the streets is drug-induced paranoia, high guy

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:01
What a backwards town. From police chiefs selling meth to pot sniffing dogs in the hostel.
:-? i agree wif sly.:sun
furkin stupid thread to begin wif.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:03
taking a leap from walking the dog thru the place to checking road crossings and the streets is drug-induced paranoia, high guy

1. I was being sarcastic in my original post

2. It would still be legal, a waste of time, but legal

3. Get a clue. If you're going to dance with me, learn some moves.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:03
:-? i agree wif sly.:sun
furkin stupid thread to begin wif.

Count me in.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 09:08
You don't need probable cause to walk a sniffer around, smart guy. The Supreme Court has already ruled that a dog's nose is unbiased.

calling you on this... the supreme court case i found was for traffic stops for legitimate reasons

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:10
i don't think we need cops walking down the streets of the united states of america sniffing out pot smokers. money could be better spent

this about one hostel on the AT. it's about disrespecting the church's wishes and disrespecting me as someone who's been asked by the caretaker to help out with enforcing the very simple rules. it says a lot about hikers that can't seem to follow these rules. the "hiking community" has brought it on themselves. do not come to the Place if you're carrying pot. anyone have a problem with that feel free to call the Methodist church, the town hall and the police department and complain.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:11
calling you on this... the supreme court case i found was for traffic stops for legitimate reasons

Then how did they just randomly walk a dog through the hostel? Or is a hiker automatic probable cause?

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:11
Why don't they? Why not just walk them around everywhere, 24 hours a day? Someone might have weed:eek:

you don't get it. obviously you never will

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 09:12
1. I was being sarcastic in my original post

2. It would still be legal, a waste of time, but legal

3. Get a clue. If you're going to dance with me, learn some moves.

1. dumb

2. wrong

3. i called you on 2. your move :sun

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:14
Ok, final comment - really.

Damascus has for years put itself out to the hiking community as an "over the top" party town, officially sanctioned. Now they wonder why hikers are coming into the town with a party attitude. They don't seem to mind when they are making big bucks off the crowds.

Close it down. My opinion of Damascus is diminishing.

that's a BS statement
feel free to stay away. we're talking about a privately owned church dwelling that has a few very simple rules that quite a few hikers think don't apply to them.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 09:15
Then how did they just randomly walk a dog through the hostel? Or is a hiker automatic probable cause?


you don't get it. obviously you never will

lw, right as usual. waste of timing trying to educate him...


have a great easter everyone. :sun

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:16
this about one hostel on the AT. it's about disrespecting the church's wishes and disrespecting me as someone who's been asked by the caretaker to help out with enforcing the very simple rules. it says a lot about hikers that can't seem to follow these rules. the "hiking community" has brought it on themselves. do not come to the Place if you're carrying pot. anyone have a problem with that feel free to call the Methodist church, the town hall and the police department and complain.
i agree wif da wolf, read the last line in this post.
ttp://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=819416&postcount=38

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:16
1. dumb

2. wrong

3. i called you on 2. your move :sun
1. You're dumb for not catching it

2. There is no specific case because nobody is dumb enough to have instituted such a practice. However, the case you mentioned, plus NJ vs. T.L.O(searching school lockers) and another case I can't think of affirms that a dog has an unbiased nose and can be used without probable cause.

3. You stepped on my foot

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 09:16
3. i called you on 2. your move :sun
Is this thread about dancing or chess. . .:confused:

Lyle
04-12-2009, 09:17
I don't carry pot, don't use alcohol much. I think I'll just continue to avoid Damascus and Trail Days altogether rather than try to decide when hikers are welcomed and when they are not.

As I said, if the Place has become such a problem, shut it down. Better than resorting to Gestapo tactics and making everyone suspect.

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 09:17
what A Backwards Town. From Police Chiefs Selling Meth To Pot Sniffing Dogs In The Hostel.
:) . . . . .

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:17
:-? i agree wif sly.:sun
furkin stupid thread to begin wif.

why you keep posting on it?

generoll
04-12-2009, 09:18
please note, I have been reliably informed that a pot sniffer has been installed on the AT gateway along the path by the river in the park leading into town. Beware and be warned.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:18
correction- NJ vs. T.L.O does not deal with the dog specifically, I'm thinking of another case.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:19
lw, right as usual. waste of timing trying to educate him...


have a great easter everyone. :sun
"I just don't get it and never will" doesn't actually mean anything.

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 09:20
please note, I have been reliably informed that a pot sniffer has been installed on the AT gateway along the path by the river in the park leading into town. Beware and be warned.
http://www.waidev2.com/php/IMAGES/VYS_Article/5824---Image_1.jpg

Sly
04-12-2009, 09:21
do not come to the Place if you're carrying pot. anyone have a problem with that feel free to call the Methodist church, the town hall and the police department and complain.

I can see if there's a group passing a bowl or a joint but, if someone is carrying some pot deep in their pack with no intentions of partaking on church property (saving it for the woods) they're going to get busted. Kind of sucks for an otherwise respectful hiker,

Whose idea was it in the 1st place? Did the church ask the police for the dog or did the police suggest it?

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:23
why you keep posting on it?
cause i'm stupid:rolleyes:

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:24
I can see if there's a group passing a bowl or a joint but, if someone is carrying some pot deep in their pack with no intentions of partaking on church property (saving it for the woods) they're going to get busted. Kind of sucks for an otherwise respectful hiker,

Whose idea was it in the 1st place? Did the church ask the police for the dog or did the police suggest it?

Say they needed probable cause to sniff, what exactly was it? According to Tin Man(who doesn't know which side he's arguing at this point- for privacy or for drug enforcement) probable cause is needed unless you're in a car(which isn't true anyway). So what was the probable cause here? Apparently they found a small amount in a backpack- doesn't sound like they ever would have known unless a dog was brought in.

Doughnut
04-12-2009, 09:24
You don't need probable cause to walk a sniffer around, smart guy. The Supreme Court has already ruled that a dog's nose is unbiased.


I thought a dog's nose was just cold and wet.

DoughNut

Rockhound
04-12-2009, 09:24
There is a difference between having your stash laying out in plain sight or smoking or drinking when it's against the rules and keeping whatever "contraband" you may have (alcohol or pot) stashed for the duration of your stay. One shows respect the other does not. They are of course on private property so the 4th amendment does not apply. If the place chooses to allow drug sniffing dogs to randomly search hikers and there packs I guess that's there purogative. Does not sound like somewhere I would ever stay whether I was carrying or not. In fact Trail days itself is becoming less and less appealing every year.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 09:26
Is this thread about dancing or chess. . .:confused:

it's about clueless pot smoking whiners :sun

not that you are clueless or a whiner :p

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:26
I can see if there's a group passing a bowl or a joint but, if someone is carrying some pot deep in their pack with no intentions of partaking on church property (saving it for the woods) they're going to get busted. Kind of sucks for an otherwise respectful hiker,

Whose idea was it in the 1st place? Did the church ask the police for the dog or did the police suggest it?
ah, but it don't work that way. at night they like to sit on the back porch and smoke the crap or from the top rooms with the lights off while blowin' the smoke out the windows or in their tents camped on the lawn, etc. they brought it on themselves. the neighbors are tired of it too.

whose idea was it? you'll have to call the police dept. and/or the methodist church

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:27
ah, but it don't work that way. at night they like to sit on the back porch and smoke the crap or from the top rooms with the lights off while blowin' the smoke out the windows or in their tents camped on the lawn, etc. they brought it on themselves. the neighbors are tired of it too.

whose idea was it? you'll have to call the police dept. and/or the methodist church
damn hippies

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:27
it's about clueless pot smoking whiners :sun

not that you are clueless or a whiner :p

And people that can't catch sarcasm and who don't know which side they're on, privacy or enforcement.

Lilred
04-12-2009, 09:28
It is what it is. I'm sure people will appreciate the warning,.

Egads
04-12-2009, 09:29
You guys are ridiculous. The Methodist church owns The Place and sets the rules. Either obey or move on. Stop being selfish and immature @$$hats. It seems like all the negatives of shelters are concentrated here. I for one found the late night party crowd too loud to sleep and won't stay there again.

BTW, one post said the dog was invited to the premises.

Sly
04-12-2009, 09:29
ah, but it don't work that way. at night they like to sit on the back porch and smoke the crap or from the top rooms with the lights off while blowin' the smoke out the windows or in their tents camped on the lawn, etc. they brought it on themselves. the neighbors are tired of it too.



Why not just bust them when they're smoking? Like I said backwards.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:29
I just want to say this, the law here in Damascus does not give a damn if anyone smokes pot and the Methodist church does not care either.
:-?can ya smoke the evil walkin down the road then??;)

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 09:29
Say they needed probable cause to sniff, what exactly was it? According to Tin Man(who doesn't know which side he's arguing at this point- for privacy or for drug enforcement) probable cause is needed unless you're in a car(which isn't true anyway). So what was the probable cause here? Apparently they found a small amount in a backpack- doesn't sound like they ever would have known unless a dog was brought in.

you know nothing about the law... you only support it when it fits your definition of right and wrong... clueless

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:31
you know nothing about the law... you only support it when it fits your definition of right and wrong... clueless

You're right. Dogs can only randomly search when person is in a car:rolleyes:

****That's sarcasm

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 09:31
Lyle-"As I said, if the Place has become such a problem, shut it down. Better than resorting to Gestapo tactics and making everyone suspect."First, if you have a 'roach' problem with your house, you don't burn the house down, you call an exterminator and correct the problem-that is what is being done at The Place. The hikers commiting the crimes are the problem, not the police or the church.

Second, if someone complains to the police that there are nefarious activities taking place, it is the police department's duty to investigate. If the police catch some dumb arse criminals in the process of an investigation, that's the criminal's problem. Your borderline Godwin's Law analogy is laughable. The usual conspiracy theorist are coming out of the woodwork on this thread!:)

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:31
Why not just bust them when they're smoking? Like I said backwards.
i agree wif sly:jump

Sly
04-12-2009, 09:32
I just want to say this, the law here in Damascus does not give a damn if anyone smokes pot and the Methodist church does not care either.

Yeah that what LW said too. They just don't like it sitting harmlessly in your pack.

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 09:32
What a backwards town. From police chiefs selling meth to pot sniffing dogs in the hostel.What a backwards kind of attitude as well..........

Rockhound
04-12-2009, 09:33
Once again a few idiots ruin it for the masses. With that said, I find randomly searching your "guests" is just as disrespectful as the guests breaking the rules.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:33
Second, if someone complains to the police that there are nefarious activities taking place, it is the police department's duty to investigate.
:-? yup, it those durn rasta-naferions smokin the herb man. book'em danno:rolleyes:

MintakaCat
04-12-2009, 09:33
You guys are ridiculous. The Methodist church owns The Place and sets the rules. Either obey or move on. Stop being selfish and immature @$$hats.

That's how I see it too. If you don't like the rules, move on. Seems simple to me.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:34
Yeah that what LW said too. They just don't like it sitting harmlessly in your pack.

There's a whole of generalizing and just plain double talk going on in this thread. Obviously, they do care if you smoke weed.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:35
Once again a few idiots ruin it for the masses. With that said, I find randomly searching your "guests" is just as disrespectful as the guests breaking the rules.

You just won the thread. I wouldn't carry weed anyway but I certainly won't be visiting any places that randomly search your stuff.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:36
First, if you have a 'roach' problem with your house, you don't burn the house down, you call an exterminator and correct the problem-that is what is being done at The Place. The hikers commiting the crimes are the problem, not the police or the church.

Second, if someone complains to the police that there are nefarious activities taking place, it is the police department's duty to investigate. If the police catch some dumb arse criminals in the process of an investigation, that's the criminal's problem. Your borderline Godwin's Law analogy is laughable. The usual conspiracy theorist are coming out of the woodwork on this thread!:)

see? fhart gets it. funny thing after about june 1st when the hiker wave is through there are no problems at The Place and it's very busy with church groups, boy scouts, etc. and they put money in the donation box. they do the right thing

Sly
04-12-2009, 09:37
There's a whole of generalizing and just plain double talk going on in this thread. Obviously, they do care if you smoke weed.

Well it's easier to catch a couple pot smokers in a hostel with a drug sniffing dog than it is to bust a meth lab in Washington county or someone selling shine at Trail Days.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:37
What conspiracy theorists?

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 09:39
Whose idea was it in the 1st place? Did the church ask the police for the dog or did the police suggest it?




whose idea was it? you'll have to call the police dept. and/or the methodist church
This information is strictly top secret and needs to rmain that way for national security reasons.....

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:39
see? fhart gets it. funny thing after about june 1st when the hiker wave is through there are no problems at The Place and it's very busy with church groups, boy scouts, etc. and they put money in the donation box. they do the right thing
:-? yup! listen to the wolf, i'd bet none of those church goes have ever smoked the evil neither:rolleyes:
'member, keep the dope and booze out od "the place" really there's plenty o' other spots fer them kinda folk. respeck the wishes of those fine folk

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:40
Well it's easier to catch a couple pot smokers in a hostel with a drug sniffing dog than it is to bust a meth lab in Washington county or someone selling shine at Trail Days.
i agree wif sly.
damn rev'newers want their fingers on everythin':D

fiddlehead
04-12-2009, 09:41
I have fond memories of the place.
In 77, I met Warren Doyle there (and the Doylies)
In 89, some kids from town had broken most of the windows, we took a collection and fixed all of them (about 15 windows)
In 92, I fell in love and we were there together.
In 95, I did big miles coming into town and enjoyed a great nights sleep there.

All thru the years i'd go there when i'd hit traildaze and it always seemed about the same. A bit crowded and dirty showers but an oasis for poor hikers and nobody harrassing you about your smell or pack explosion.

I believe what you are saying Lone Wolf. Things probably have gotten out of hand with more partying than i remember (although i remember so many good times there)

It's just a shame to see it ending with drug dogs sniffing packs. To me, that's one of the worst things that i'd like to see.
I rarely smoke anymore, but like to carry a bit for that special occasion high on a mountain, after a good climb, on a good day.

Another part of the AT experience gone i guess.

The church has sure put up with a lot over the years. But there must be a more sensible way than this.

Sly
04-12-2009, 09:41
This information is strictly top secret and needs to rmain that way for national security reasons.....

Yeah catching one kid with a small amount of pot in his pack is going to make the world a safer place. :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:42
Well it's easier to catch a couple pot smokers in a hostel with a drug sniffing dog than it is to bust a meth lab in Washington county or someone selling shine at Trail Days.

that's cuz dopers are no where near as intelligent as meth lab scientists or shiners

Sly
04-12-2009, 09:45
that's cuz dopers are no where near as intelligent as meth lab scientists or shiners

I guess, plus we all know how evil pot is compared to meth and booze. :rolleyes:

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:46
:-? i love "DA BLAZE"!!! this place is great! happy everything to everybody!! :sun:welcome

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:46
that's cuz dopers are no where near as intelligent as meth lab scientists or shiners

meth lab scientists are typically brain damaged after a few cooks.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:47
I guess, plus we all know how evil pot is compared to meth and booze. :rolleyes:

If just one kid doesn't O.D. on pot then it will all be worth it:D

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 09:47
I guess, plus we all know how evil pot is compared to meth and booze. :rolleyes:

i don't really care. it is what it is. the hikers bring it on themselves. period. there's plenty of other places to stay in town

Engine
04-12-2009, 09:47
Some of you must be complete F'ing idiots! This thread, from the start, was about one establishment expressing their desire for users of their services to respect their wish for people to refrain from bringing an illegal substance onto their property.

If I was visiting you at your home, and you asked me to stop cooking meth in the bedroom, you would be pissed when I ignored the request and continued with my own selfish interests. This is no different!

As far as the use of dogs in the hostel, why is that a problem? They have a business that has had continued problems with illegal substances being brought where they are not welcome. In an attempt to remove said substances from the premises, they are using an accepted legal method of finding them. If you are not hiding anything then there is nothing to worry about and is you are hiding weed, then stop crying about the consequences and MAN UP and face what comes!

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 09:48
All this talk has given me an idea. . . brb. . .:sun

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:49
The police ought to do 2 am breathalyzers there too

Bearpaw
04-12-2009, 09:49
Police dogs used randomly in a hostel is not cool. If its come to that, better to shut the place down.

No it's not.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:49
Some of you must be complete F'ing idiots! This thread, from the start, was about one establishment expressing their desire for users of their services to respect their wish for people to refrain from bringing an illegal substance onto their property.

If I was visiting you at your home, and you asked me to stop cooking meth in the bedroom, you would be pissed when I ignored the request and continued with my own selfish interests. This is no different!

As far as the use of dogs in the hostel, why is that a problem? They have a business that has had continued problems with illegal substances being brought where they are not welcome. In an attempt to remove said substances from the premises, they are using an accepted legal method of finding them. If you are not hiding anything then there is nothing to worry about and is you are hiding weed, then stop crying about the consequences and MAN UP and face what comes!

Say you told me not to smoke weed in your house. Would you then search my belongings just in case?

Sly
04-12-2009, 09:51
Say you told me not to smoke weed in your house. Would you then search my belongings just in case?

Bingo... ;)

Pacific Tortuga
04-12-2009, 09:51
I'm all for living by rules installed by owners of their establishment, as I expect others to live by mine in mine.

Isn't one of "The Place" rules, NO DOGS on the property ? :)

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 09:54
I'm all for living by rules installed by owners of their establishment, as I expect others to live by mine in mine.

Isn't one of "The Place" rules, NO DOGS on the property ? :)
Sorry folks, gonna have to search your packs for contraband dogs. . .

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:55
:-? makes sens-amilla to me:D
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showpost.php?p=819504&postcount=106

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 09:57
I'm all for living by rules installed by owners of their establishment, as I expect others to live by mine in mine.

Isn't one of "The Place" rules, NO DOGS on the property ? :)
Yes it is except for police dogs and my dog Sally............anyone got an argument with this bring it on!

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 09:57
This mindset is how we lost our electronic right to privacy

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 09:58
Yes it is except for police dogs and my dog Sally............anyone got an argument with this bring it on!
iffin ya aint got enough gum for the whole class to chew......;)

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 10:00
iffin ya aint got enough gum for the whole class to chew......;)
whaddaya sayin' man?

Pedaling Fool
04-12-2009, 10:01
This mindset is how we lost our electronic right to privacy
And all eavesdropping will remain the policy, because the new administration sees the need.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 10:03
hi T.O.W.!!!
ya see, i have a small favor to ask, can i bring me pooch in "da place" too?
thanks man, i node you'd unnerstand:sun
one love:welcome

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 10:03
whaddaya sayin' man?
He wants some gum. . .

Engine
04-12-2009, 10:04
Say you told me not to smoke weed in your house. Would you then search my belongings just in case?

Quite possibly, if you continued to disregard my wishes to not bring it into my home. You would have been a welcome guest, and while I personally have no issues with pot smoking, I take great issue with a guest ignoring my wishes. The Place didn't invite anyone with the implication that it was a safe place to store illegal substances, the rules are clearly posted.

I know many will disagree with my point of view regarding the use of dogs, but they aren't going to bust you for carrying anything legal...Please realize that I agree with the problems related to the loss of privacy in our society, but in this instance I think you give up that particular "right" when you enter a private establishment with an illegal substance on your person. The crux of this argument is that we are discussing something that is currently deemed illegal, whether we agree with the law or not should make no difference. If any of you wish for pot to be legalized, lobby congress and fight for a change. But even if legal, The Place should still have the right to forbid an item to be brought on the property.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:04
And all eavesdropping will remain the policy, because the new administration sees the need.


The new administration isn't any better than the old one. Both show a lack of respect for the 4th Amendment and privacy.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 10:07
:-? p.s. seein' as though this is in the wes' virginny kata gorry can weez tawk 'bout mountain top coal minin' too??:eek::D

TD55
04-12-2009, 10:07
Everybody has a right to be an a$$hole. If you can't respect the wishs of a church or someones private property it's an indication you need a break from being an a$$hole. If you ain't got the brains to stash your weed under a rock you are a stupid a$$hole and geting busted might be the trick needed to snap you out of your chronic a$$holery.

Bearpaw
04-12-2009, 10:07
Just remember, Dave Place and the Hikers' Inn will still be open after the Place is closed. Enjoy dropping $20 a night instead of 3. Puff on.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 10:10
Everybody has a right to be an a$$hole. If you can't respect the wishs of a church or someones private property it's an indication you need a break from being an a$$hole. If you ain't got the brains to stash your weed under a rock you are a stupid a$$hole and geting busted might be the trick needed to snap you out of your chronic a$$holery.
:-? now whilst i don't partake in smokin' the evil i do hear that they're sellin it in the "joint" too!!!;)

Sly
04-12-2009, 10:10
Just remember, Dave Place and the Hikers' Inn will still be open after the Place is closed. Enjoy dropping $20 a night instead of 3. Puff on.

Maybe some can leave notice in the shelter register to stash their weed during their visit to meth capital of Washington county? :p

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:11
Quite possibly, if you continued to disregard my wishes to not bring it into my home. You would have been a welcome guest, and while I personally have no issues with pot smoking, I take great issue with a guest ignoring my wishes. The Place didn't invite anyone with the implication that it was a safe place to store illegal substances, the rules are clearly posted.

I know many will disagree with my point of view regarding the use of dogs, but they aren't going to bust you for carrying anything legal...Please realize that I agree with the problems related to the loss of privacy in our society, but in this instance I think you give up that particular "right" when you enter a private establishment with an illegal substance on your person. The crux of this argument is that we are discussing something that is currently deemed illegal, whether we agree with the law or not should make no difference. If any of you wish for pot to be legalized, lobby congress and fight for a change. But even if legal, The Place should still have the right to forbid an item to be brought on the property.

They do have every right to ban anything they want on their property but they seem to have lost touch with the idea that when it comes to freedom, you take the bad with the good.

The only good thing about this is, they have the right to make a decision that literally goes against one of the foundations this country was built on.. but I still have the right not to stay there and give them my donation.

Also, is this a posted policy at the place? That your stuff can be randomly searched? Not that it really matters, just wondering.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 10:11
Maybe some can leave notice in the shelter register to stash their weed during their visit to meth capital of Washington county? :p
:-? my momma always to' me, "son, powdah iz fer betwixt yer legs an' unner yer arms, incase youz iz gittin chaffed":D

Sly
04-12-2009, 10:13
Everybody has a right to be an a$$hole. If you can't respect the wishs of a church or someones private property it's an indication you need a break from being an a$$hole. If you ain't got the brains to stash your weed under a rock you are a stupid a$$hole and geting busted might be the trick needed to snap you out of your chronic a$$holery.


Takes one to know one. :rolleyes:

Crazy Larry #1
04-12-2009, 10:15
hi T.O.W.!!!
ya see, i have a small favor to ask, can i bring me pooch in "da place" too?
thanks man, i node you'd unnerstand:sun
one love:welcomeabsolutely not and if you try to hide the dog in your pack my dog will find it because that is what she is trained to do.....actually i tie my dog up on the edge of the property when i do my patrol at the place, if i run into any trouble while in there i whistle and my dog unties itself and runs in to help me by attacking my attacker by going directly for the crotch!

Pedaling Fool
04-12-2009, 10:15
Whine, whine, whine...Everyone here is just a bunch of blowhards. If your really worried about your rights then stop blabbing and put your words to action -- do something about it. Why don't you'll become modern day revolutionaries and create your own country, nah...just keep up your mindless bitchin (http://www.rense.com/general68/secede.htm)

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 10:19
absolutely not and if you try to hide the dog in your pack my dog will find it because that is what she is trained to do.....actually i tie my dog up on the edge of the property when i do my patrol at the place, if i run into any trouble while in there i whistle and my dog unties itself and runs in to help me by attacking my attacker by going directly for the crotch!

geez T.O.W., an' i thought we wuz friends. can i bring a pack of dogs in the place.... hot dogs that iz?;)
happy easter T.O.W. an' sally too!!:sun

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 10:20
Whine, whine, whine...Everyone here is just a bunch of blowhards.
And you're excluded from your own labeling how??:confused:

Sly
04-12-2009, 10:21
Whine, whine, whine...Everyone here is just a bunch of blowhards. If your really worried about your rights then stop blabbing and put your words to action -- do something about it. Why don't you'll become modern day revolutionaries and create your own country, nah...just keep up your mindless bitchin (http://www.rense.com/general68/secede.htm)

No need to create another country. Some states have more relaxed laws concerning pot.

As far as I can remember the Place forbids alcohol and illegal drugs. Certainly someone should be busted for openly partaking in either. Minding ones own business the guy with the flask, or any other illegal drug in his pack gets off, while the one with a pot stash in his pack gets busted. That's what I have a problem with.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:22
Whine, whine, whine...Everyone here is just a bunch of blowhards. If your really worried about your rights then stop blabbing and put your words to action -- do something about it. Why don't you'll become modern day revolutionaries and create your own country, nah...just keep up your mindless bitchin (http://www.rense.com/general68/secede.htm)

Oooooooooooo, look at you get all mad over an internet debate:bse

TD55
04-12-2009, 10:23
Takes one to know one. :rolleyes:

It makes me an expert!!!!:-?

Pedaling Fool
04-12-2009, 10:23
And you're excluded from your own labeling how??:confused:
I'm all-knowing

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:24
No need to create another country. Some states have more relaxed laws concerning pot.

As far as I can remember the Place forbids alcohol and illegal drugs. Certainly someone should be busted for openly partaking in either. Minding ones own business the guy with the flask, or any other illegal drug in his pack gets off, while the one with a pot stash in his pack gets busted. That's what I have a problem with.

I'll also add that some of us still remember what this country is supposed to be and what constitutes a waste of taxpayer money and time.

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 10:24
Zoidfu-“What conspiracy theorists?”

Zoidfu-“The new administration isn't any better than the old one. Both show a lack of respect for the 4th Amendment and privacy.”:banana :banana

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 10:25
Whine, whine, whine...Everyone here is just a bunch of blowhards. If your really worried about your rights then stop blabbing and put your words to action -- do something about it. Why don't you'll become modern day revolutionaries and create your own country, nah...just keep up your mindless bitchin (http://www.rense.com/general68/secede.htm)
listen to john, conform or leave!
sounds like what goes on in a dick tater ship country

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:26
:banana :banana
What they're doing isn't a conspiracy if everyone knows about it. The question is, does anyone care still?

Pedaling Fool
04-12-2009, 10:26
No need to create another country. Some states have more relaxed laws concerning pot.

As far as I can remember the Place forbids alcohol and illegal drugs. Certainly someone should be busted for openly partaking in either. Minding ones own business the guy with the flask, or any other illegal drug in his pack gets off, while the one with a pot stash in his pack gets busted. That's what I have a problem with.
I agree drug laws are stupid. This thread is just getting stupid.

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 10:26
I'm all-knowing
Oh. . . :welcome Dr. Phil

Pedaling Fool
04-12-2009, 10:29
Oh. . . :welcome Dr. Phil
Now Dr Phil here...It's just a gift;)

Bearpaw
04-12-2009, 10:30
What they're doing isn't a conspiracy if everyone knows about it. The question is, does anyone care still?

Would hikers have preferred to NOT know and walk into the Placed and get busted? Every one who says or thinks "I'm not going to the Place now" owes TOW a thank you.

warraghiyagey
04-12-2009, 10:32
Would hikers have preferred to NOT know and walk into the Placed and get busted? Every one who says or thinks "I'm not going to the Place now" owes TOW a thank you.
:sun:sun. . . .

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:32
Would hikers have preferred to NOT know and walk into the Placed and get busted? Every one who says or thinks "I'm not going to the Place now" owes TOW a thank you.

Oh, I completely agree. I almost posted exactly that.

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 10:49
Zoidfu-"...Both show a lack of respect for the 4th Amendment and privacy.”The duty of the police department is to protect and serve. If someone reports an illegal activity, or an ongoing series of illegal activities, it is their duty to follow up on the complaint and if they find any criminals in the process, arrest them. This has nothing to do with the 4th amendment. I've seen police dogs at bus stations sniffing baggage (mine included) and I've had extensive searches done at airports.

If a drug sniffing dog smells something as he walks by your pack that is what the law calls "probable cause" and they then have a right to search. If you don't want your pack searched, then don't carry anything you know damn well is illegal. Crying 'foul' because a police department is doing their duty and somehow claiming that is unconstitutional is silly. Your remedy is to challenge it in court, which I'd love to see.

Rockhound
04-12-2009, 10:52
I guess the lesson is skip Damascus entirely or stash your herb in your buddies pack.

SouthMark
04-12-2009, 10:54
This mindset is how we lost our electronic right to privacy

Actually there is no mention of a right to privacy of any kind in the Constitution.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:58
The duty of the police department is to protect and serve. If someone reports an illegal activity, or an ongoing series of illegal activities, it is their duty to follow up on the complaint and if they find any criminals in the process, arrest them. This has nothing to do with the 4th amendment. I've seen police dogs at bus stations sniffing baggage (mine included) and I've had extensive searches done at airports.

If a drug sniffing dog smells something as he walks by your pack that is what the law calls "probable cause" and they then have a right to search. If you don't want your pack searched, then don't carry anything you know damn well is illegal. Crying 'foul' because a police department is doing their duty and somehow claiming that is unconstitutional is silly. Your remedy is to challenge it in court, which I'd love to see.

I never said it was unconstitutional(in fact I argued that it technically is, it's just not in the spirit of the 4th, which can be twisted any way they can)- just a waste of time, resources, and it's personally insulting(to me).

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 10:59
Actually there is no mention of a right to privacy of any kind in the Constitution.

Semantics. We have a right to no unreasonable searches and seizures.

Manwich
04-12-2009, 11:01
What kind of church allows animals to wander inside of it?

Sly
04-12-2009, 11:02
Semantics. We have a right to no unreasonable searches and seizures.

4th Amendment...


The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 11:06
:-? based on this thread, is it safe to assume that it's o.k. to have weed in all the other hostels along the trail unless stated otherwise.

my point is, it's a given that you're not suppoesed to have weed in any establishment that's abiding by the law, will we be reminded of this, along with all the other laws in regards to hiking the A.T. on a monthly basis.
if i recolleck correckly there was a thread on this subjeck not too long ago:sun

Engine
04-12-2009, 11:12
What kind of church allows animals to wander inside of it?

What kind of church would knowingly allow illegal mind altering substances to be stored inside of it?

We could continue this ad infinitum and in the end we would be right where we started. The simple point is this, if you don't like the policy set forth by The Place, don't stay there. It's the same as any other business.

Lastly, the use of a drug dog does not constitute a search. The search only takes place if and when the dog "alerts" and gives sufficient PC for it. No PC, no search...

Sly
04-12-2009, 11:18
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/aloksak_op_sak_12_5x20.html

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 11:18
Zoidfu-"I never said it was unconstitutional(in fact I argued that it technically is, it's just not in the spirit of the 4th..."As you just said-"semantics":cool:. The Place has a right to ask the police to protect them and their property from criminals-period.

Zoidfu-"...just a waste of time, resources, and it's personally insulting(to me)."As I previously posted, and you even quoted (but failed to grasp) "The duty of the police department is to protect and serve. If someone reports an illegal activity, or an ongoing series of illegal activities, it is their duty to follow up on the complaint and if they find any criminals in the process, arrest them." Serving a citizen is not a waste of time and resources, unless you look at it from the criminal's point of view.:-?

However, you are free to feel personally insulted by the police and the church trying to do their duty and protecting everyone who stays at The Place.:D

halibut15
04-12-2009, 11:19
Amen, Engine! If you don't like the rules, suck it up and don't stay there. People at any hostel are letting you use their property, for goodness sake. If they think you're breaking their rules (and breaking any of their rules is illegal), then they have every right to call the cops/kick you out.

Everyone just needs to go light one up and chill out about this. :banana

Alaskanhkr23
04-12-2009, 11:22
MARIJUANA SMELL GOOD to the dogs,and me LOL yeah they'll eventually turn the trails into a police check points

Sly
04-12-2009, 11:23
If you don't like the rules, suck it up and don't stay there.

I'm a stickler for the rules. What do they say verbatim? "No alcohol or drug use on property" or "no alcohol or drugs on property"?

Can I have a flask in my pack?

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 11:24
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=305vRNoofr8

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 11:30
As you just said-"semantics":cool:. The Place has a right to ask the police to protect them and their property from criminals-period.
As I previously posted, and you even quoted (but failed to grasp) "The duty of the police department is to protect and serve. If someone reports an illegal activity, or an ongoing series of illegal activities, it is their duty to follow up on the complaint and if they find any criminals in the process, arrest them." Serving a citizen is not a waste of time and resources, unless you look at it from the criminal's point of view.:-?

However, you are free to feel personally insulted by the police and the church trying to do their duty and protecting everyone who stays at The Place.:D

I never said they didn't have the right. I argued that they did, I just don't see the wisdom in random dog searches. When a person busts it out and starts smoking, that's one thing. Randomly searching everyone's pack with a dog is something else, entirely. Also, police respond to citizen's wastes of time all the time.

I also don't agree with DUI checkpoints(I think that applies here).

And yes, I do feel insulted when I'm basically suspected of committing a crime for absolutely no reason other than "I fit the profile."

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 11:34
Zoidfu-"I just don't see the wisdom in random dog searches. "...so you want them to announce: "the next search will be at 4pm" :D

Sly
04-12-2009, 11:37
Damascus Police Blotter for the week of April 1: Another hippie hiker busted at the Place for a small stash of marijuana. In the meantime, 4 houses broken into by meth heads and everyone leaves Dot's drunk.

catfishrivers
04-12-2009, 11:40
Well thanks for the heads up anyhow. The Place probably just lost about 25 % or therabouts worth of whatever donations they received because they just made it clear as day that 25% of the people on the trail would be dumb to go there. And before anyone says people who use pot wouldn't tip, or leave a donation, that's at least not true with anyone I know who smokes pot. In my experience, those folks are usually just as likely to donate or leave a tip as the next guy. Often I find potheads to be more sympathetic, giving, and thoughtful than your average Joe...

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 11:40
Damascus Police Blotter for the week of April 1: Another hippie hiker busted at the Place for a small stash of marijuana. In the meantime, 4 houses broken into by meth heads and everyone leaves Dot's drunk.
tooooooo funny!!!! ha ha ha ha :D

Red Hat
04-12-2009, 11:46
this about one hostel on the AT. it's about disrespecting the church's wishes and disrespecting me as someone who's been asked by the caretaker to help out with enforcing the very simple rules. it says a lot about hikers that can't seem to follow these rules. the "hiking community" has brought it on themselves. do not come to the Place if you're carrying pot. anyone have a problem with that feel free to call the Methodist church, the town hall and the police department and complain.

My husband and I have volunteered several times to be caretakers. We have an RV and all we ask is for some type of hookups near the building. We would love to stay through hiker season and help. But we have yet to get any response. My husband has a background in corrections and there would be no drug dogs needed.

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 11:47
Sly-"...In the meantime, 4 houses broken into by meth heads and everyone leaves Dot's drunk."...and if those incidents are reported, the police will respond. They aren't mind readers and meth heads don't generally post their break-in schedules so they can't arrest them before they commit a crime-something about the constitution.:D

Red Hat
04-12-2009, 11:50
What kind of church allows animals to wander inside of it?

Obviously, you've never been there... the Place is not a church, it is a house owned by a church. It is a house for hikers to stay very cheaply, but respectfully.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 11:55
...so you want them to announce: "the next search will be at 4pm" :D

I'd settle for a sign that says, "We randomly search your person and affects for drugs with a drug dog."

Like you touched on, when you go on a plane or a bus you are consenting to a possible random search by buying the ticket. Unless such a sign exists, TOW and word of mouth is the only way people know what they're getting into... and believe it or not, there are law abiding folks out there that plainly don't agree with being profiled.

Rockhound
04-12-2009, 11:57
No drugs, no dogs, no alcohol, no guns, no fornicating, no nudity, no foul language, no loud noise, no fires, no smoking.........gee sounds like a swell place. Do they take reservations?:rolleyes:

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 11:58
No drugs, no dogs, no alcohol, no guns, no fornicating, no nudity, no foul language, no loud noise, no fires, no smoking.........gee sounds like a swell place. Do they take reservations?:rolleyes:

No wild dancing either

Rockhound
04-12-2009, 11:59
ooohhh, almost forgot about the random searches. Does that include body cavities. Probably not. That might break the no nudity/fornicating rules.

neighbor dave
04-12-2009, 12:00
:-? i wonder how many of us are carrying dollar bills that have residual powdah on them from the people who snort that stuff, and if ol' poochie smells it will they be busted for it? :-?

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 12:20
Damascus Police Blotter for the week of April 1: Another hippie hiker busted at the Place for a small stash of marijuana. In the meantime, 4 houses broken into by meth heads and everyone leaves Dot's drunk.

you're awfully bitter and you really know nothing about Damascus. all because you choose to smoke dope. sad

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 12:22
Well thanks for the heads up anyhow. The Place probably just lost about 25 % or therabouts worth of whatever donations they received because they just made it clear as day that 25% of the people on the trail would be dumb to go there. And before anyone says people who use pot wouldn't tip, or leave a donation, that's at least not true with anyone I know who smokes pot. In my experience, those folks are usually just as likely to donate or leave a tip as the next guy. Often I find potheads to be more sympathetic, giving, and thoughtful than your average Joe...

hahaha. that's pretty funny :D

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 12:24
No drugs, no dogs, no alcohol, no guns, no fornicating, no nudity, no foul language, no loud noise, no fires, no smoking.........gee sounds like a swell place. Do they take reservations?:rolleyes:

plenty of folks love The Place. it's the dopers and drunks that have the problem

saimyoji
04-12-2009, 12:28
aren't thru hikers a very minor subset of all the groups that use it during the course of a year? would banning thru-hikers, or all hikers during those months make any difference to the church?

Sly
04-12-2009, 12:30
you're awfully bitter and you really know nothing about Damascus. all because you choose to smoke dope. sad

LOL... I'm not bitter, I just think the DPD has bigger priorities (crimes with victims), than busting a couple hikers with pot stashed in their packs at the Place. If it's openly smoked like you said why don't they bust them?

generoll
04-12-2009, 12:32
I'm not casting stones at peoples personal choices, but a church run hostel that makes requests regarding behavior is certainly not unreasonable. Stay and abide by the rules or stay where the rules don't impinge on your personal choices. I really don't see what the big deal is.

As far as loss of revenue, I doubt that the hostels runs a profit. Fewer hikers probably just equals lower expenses for water, electric, TP, and such. Seems kind of silly to threaten a church with theoretical loss of donations if they don't conform to your view of life.

With almost 200 posts in this website on the subject it oughta be clear to everyone by now. If you indulge don't stay at The Place. Which part of that is complicated?

Sly
04-12-2009, 12:33
...and if those incidents are reported, the police will respond. They aren't mind readers and meth heads don't generally post their break-in schedules so they can't arrest them before they commit a crime-something about the constitution.:D

Right so they go for the easy score using dogs to do their work on a couple hapless hikers. More time for donuts.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 12:34
LOL... I'm not bitter, I just think the DPD has bigger priorities (crimes with victims), than busting a couple hikers with pot stashed in their packs at the Place. If it's openly smoked like you said why don't they bust them?

bigger prioritites?? in damascus?? you mean, like jaywalking?

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 12:34
aren't thru hikers a very minor subset of all the groups that use it during the course of a year?

yes. the rest of the year church groups, x-country bike riders, scouts and creeper trail riders use it. they always leave money and clean the place up

mikec
04-12-2009, 12:34
Hopefully, these crackdowns will result in The Place continuing to provide the service that it has for hikers over the years. I stayed there in 1999 and, though I thought it was noisy all night there, I thought that it was a decent place to stay for the night. If there continue to be problems there, we may lose The Place.

Desert Reprobate
04-12-2009, 12:36
If you enjoy the hospitality, you abide by the rules.

Sly
04-12-2009, 12:43
they always leave money and clean the place up

They all leave money and clean the place and all hikers don't? That's hard to believe.

Wheeler
04-12-2009, 13:08
My husband and I have volunteered several times to be caretakers. We have an RV and all we ask is for some type of hookups near the building. We would love to stay through hiker season and help. But we have yet to get any response. My husband has a background in corrections and there would be no drug dogs needed.

oh, cavity search? That should dicourage a good number.:eek:

Sly
04-12-2009, 13:11
oh, cavity search? That should dicourage a good number.:eek:

I guess. If there were a full time caretaker on duty you wouldn't see drinking or pot smoking. Also, they could also make sure people are leaving donations. One way to do this would be to raise the fee and pay the caretaker.

Wheeler
04-12-2009, 13:19
Well this has been an entertaining read. Fact is it's their right to run the place however they want. Sure,it would be nice if they put up a sign warning about the dog's,however they've already posted what's not allowed. Nobody has to agree with it. If a place does'nt suit my style, I find one that does;pretty basic. Oh,well. It will be interesting to check this thread later and see how long this goes on for.

Sly
04-12-2009, 13:24
Well this has been an entertaining read. Fact is it's their right to run the place however they want. Sure,it would be nice if they put up a sign warning about the dog's,however they've already posted what's not allowed. Nobody has to agree with it. If a place does'nt suit my style, I find one that does;pretty basic. Oh,well. It will be interesting to check this thread later and see how long this goes on for.

Yes it's against the rules and the law but the problem there is it's singling out hikers with pot who may have no intention of smoking on the property. In the meantime, drinking and smoking goes on.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 13:28
Yes it's against the rules and the law but the problem there is it's singling out hikers with pot who may have no intention of smoking on the property. In the meantime, drinking and smoking goes on.

tough luck for dopers

Sly
04-12-2009, 13:31
tough luck for dopers

Still kicking hippies? The new LW, just like the old LW. :rolleyes:

Rockhound
04-12-2009, 13:32
tough luck for dopers
At least hikers can still get their guns and moonshine in there incognito.:rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 13:32
Still kicking hippies? The new LW, just like the old LW. :rolleyes:

you're awful bitter

Lyle
04-12-2009, 13:33
Send a mail drop to Damascus PO, stop, pick it up, hike on through. Perfect plan. Avoid Damascus entirely for the month of May.

Guess if this is the future of what hiking the AT holds, it's time to move further west with my plans. Has nothing to do with pot or drinking, everything to do with being a suspect and subject to search for no reason. Especially in a town that openly promotes the same behaviors when it's profitable for them.

Off to Easter dinner now. Have a good holiday.

Sly
04-12-2009, 13:33
you're awful bitter

I'm bitter? Time to look in the mirror pal.

Wheeler
04-12-2009, 13:34
Sound's like their singling out hikers with something illegal. For the record, I'm for decriminalization, but that's unrelated.As far as The Place; It's their perogative.If you've got weed,then it's best avoided and they've accomplished their goal. The dog's seem excessive but I bet they work. That's why I think they could alert potential guest's to the sniffers. It would be a shame to see people go to jail who had no ill intentions. Still, they have the right to have a substance free hostel. I don't know, but am guessing they did'nt come to this extreme solution overnight. I don't smoke these days, but if I did,I'd just avoid the place.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 13:35
Send a mail drop to Damascus PO, stop, pick it up, hike on through. Perfect plan. Avoid Damascus entirely for the month of May.

Guess if this is the future of what hiking the AT holds, it's time to move further west with my plans. Has nothing to do with pot or drinking, everything to do with being a suspect and subject to search for no reason. Especially in a town that openly promotes the same behaviors when it's profitable for them.

Off to Easter dinner now. Have a good holiday.

the town don't want your kind anyway

Rockhound
04-12-2009, 13:35
"Damascus, the most invasive little town on the trail."

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 13:37
I'm bitter? Time to look in the mirror pal.

i'm very happy these days. i just don't like hikers that feel simple rules don't apply to them. you are bitter cuz you don't like the simple rules :)

Lyle
04-12-2009, 13:37
the town don't want your kind anyway

Exactly what kind is that LW? We've never met.

rickb
04-12-2009, 13:37
Yes it's against the rules and the law but the problem there is it's singling out hikers with pot who may have no intention of smoking on the property. In the meantime, drinking and smoking goes on.

Just a point of clarification, Sly. It's not singling out hikers with pot, who may or may not have any intention of smoking on the property.

It is subjecting all hikers, even those who don't carry drugs, to the fallible nose of a German Shepard.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 13:39
Exactly what kind is that LW? We've never met.

thought you was goin' to dinner?

Sly
04-12-2009, 13:41
Just a point of clarification, Sly. It's not singling out hikers with pot, who may or may not have any intention of smoking on the property.

It is subjecting all hikers, even those who don't carry drugs, to the fallible nose of a German Shepard.

They also say no alcohol. Perhaps they need dogs to sniff out Jim Beam?

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 13:47
Lyle-"Guess if this is the future of what hiking the AT holds, it's time to move further west with my plans. Has nothing to do with pot or drinking, everything to do with being a suspect and subject to search for no reason. Especially in a town that openly promotes the same behaviors when it's profitable for them."From your description I believe you've got Damascus, VA mixed up with Damascus, Syria.:-? Where did you get the crazy idea the town "openly promotes the same behaviors when it's profitable for them"? I guess I missed the banner as I came into town that said: "Welcome to Damascus! Get drunk and smoke pot!" What have you been smoking?:D

Mr. Parkay
04-12-2009, 13:54
I agree completely, there should be a sign


I'd settle for a sign that says, "We randomly search your person and affects for drugs with a drug dog."

Like you touched on, when you go on a plane or a bus you are consenting to a possible random search by buying the ticket. Unless such a sign exists, TOW and word of mouth is the only way people know what they're getting into... and believe it or not, there are law abiding folks out there that plainly don't agree with being profiled.

mudcap
04-12-2009, 14:00
Wow, I just found this one. Been outback drinking some beers with the boys. Someone had some purple skunk,we all got wasted. And then we decided to shoot the guns,holy chit mon! What a great easter sunday.

No worries though,we are all atheists...so no way we would stay at a stinkin church hostel !

Damascus,holy police state...filled with redneck narcs/wannabe cops.Or is that just a WB thing?

Really sad thread folks.

Sly
04-12-2009, 14:03
Wow, I just found this one. Been outback drinking some beers with the boys. Someone had some purple skunk,we all got wasted. And then we decided to shoot the guns,holy chit mon! What a great easter sunday.

No worries though,we are all atheists...so no way we would stay at a stinkin church hostel !

Damascus,holy police state...filled with redneck narcs/wannabe cops.Or is that just a WB thing?

Really sad thread folks.

LOL... thanks for the laugh.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 14:04
Put up a sign that says:

"Warning - Police and Drug sniffing dogs patrol regularly"

who would bother going in at all?

druggies - no
people who think this means there is a problem - no
people who don't want to be hassled - no
people who think this a good idea - yes, but what percent is that??

rickb
04-12-2009, 14:05
I am curious about one thing.

Damascus is a relatively small town, and training for these animals is rather expensive. To say the least.

Was the appointment of a canine officer in Damascus, and acquisition of this expensive law enforcement resource, due to an unusually high degree of drug trafficking in the area? Was the program funded by property seizures and such?

Just seems rather unusual. I do like that they went with a German Sheppard, though. They are much cooler than some of the mutts you see on TV doing this work.

But just to clarify, this is an officially trained member of the department, correct? We aren't talking about a small-town police officer officer bringing in his pet, right?

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 14:07
I am curious about one thing.

Damascus is a relatively small town, and training for these animals is rather expensive. To say the least.

We the appointment of a canine officer in Damascus due to an unusually high degree of drug trafficking in the area? Was the program funded by property seizures and such?

Just seems odd. I do like that they went with a German Sheppard, though. They are much cooler than some of the mutts you see on TV doing this work.

But just to clarify, this is an officially trained member of the department, correct? We aren't talking about a small-town police officer officer bringing in his pet, right?

call the police dept. and ask them although i don't think you really care

mudcap
04-12-2009, 14:11
LOL... thanks for the laugh.

Sly, you are welcome.:D

This thread is just way to scarey,I had to say something.:)

C,mon folks...peace, love and granola to all. It is just a little herb,there are many more important things to worry about. :rolleyes:

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 14:14
the weed crowd gets all uppity when the police are looking for them :)

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 14:16
Zoidfu-"...and believe it or not, there are law abiding folks out there that plainly don't agree with being profiled."So if everyone in The Place is checked, how is that profiling?:-?

The problem isn't The Place, the church, or the police. The problem is the hikers who have been there in the past and are trying to spoil it for the rest of us. If you want to be P.O.ed, direct you anger at the people who caused the problem. Pogo had the answer.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6081&d=1239559839

rickb
04-12-2009, 14:17
call the police dept. and ask them although i don't think you really care

Just seems odd that such a small town would have its own Canine Officer, that's all.

Must be a story behind that.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 14:17
So if everyone in The Place is checked, how is that profiling?:-?

The problem isn't The Place, the church, or the police. The problem is the hikers who have been there in the past and are trying to spoil it for the rest of us. If you want to be P.O.ed, direct you anger at the people who caused the problem. Pogo had the answer.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6081&d=1239559839

then he'd have to look in the mirror... and he don't like what he sees. :)

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:17
the weed crowd gets all uppity when the police are looking for them :)

They ought to. Ganja enforcement is a waste of time, hypocritical and was born out of racism to begin with.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:18
So if everyone in The Place is checked, how is that profiling?:-?

The problem isn't The Place, the church, or the police. The problem is the hikers who have been there in the past and are trying to spoil it for the rest of us. If you want to be P.O.ed, direct you anger at the people who caused the problem. Pogo had the answer.

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6081&d=1239559839

By checking hikers. I thought that was pretty obvious.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:19
then he'd have to look in the mirror... and he don't like what he sees. :)

**** you. Again, I don't even smoke weed.

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 14:20
They ought to. Ganja enforcement is a waste of time, hypocritical and was born out of racism to begin with.

supporting legalization of weed is one thing.

smoking weed that is not home grown supports a long line of crime and murder to get it to market... no matter how you rationalize it, that's is what is real

Tin Man
04-12-2009, 14:21
**** you. Again, I don't even smoke weed.

you certainly sound wasted out of your mind, my bad

MintakaCat
04-12-2009, 14:22
Now, how cool is that, a police dog that profiles? :D

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:23
supporting legalization of weed is one thing.

smoking weed that is not home grown supports a long line of crime and murder to get it to market... no matter how you rationalize it, that's is what is real

And if it were legal there wouldn't be a black market for it! See how that works? And most are afraid to grow it at home because they're afraid of getting caught... so they go through the channels you're speaking of.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:23
you certainly sound wasted out of your mind, my bad

Your lack of comprehension is your problem, not mine.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:24
Now, how cool is that, a police dog that profiles? :D

It's the cops that are profiling. They're using the dog as a tool.

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 14:30
Zoidfu-“What conspiracy theorists?”
Zoidfu-“Ganja enforcement is a waste of time, hypocritical and was born out of racism to begin with.”
WOW! Another conspiracy theory! Next blame the Illuminati :D


Zoidfu (on profiling)-“By checking hikers. I thought that was pretty obvious.Wrong. They check EVERYONE in The Place-not profiling. If they just checked Asian males under 40 years old in The Place, that would be profiling.;)

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:33
WOW! Another conspiracy theory! Next blame the Illuminati :D

Wrong. They check EVERYONE in The Place-not profiling. If they just checked Asian males under 40 years old in The Place, that would be profiling.;)

Why don't you research it? Ask yourself why alcohol, which is more destructive is legal, tobacco which is pointless is legal and marijuana isn't.

A hiker get's busted with weed so that means hikers have to be checked? Sounds like profiling to me. Do they do this when there's a church group there? Or boyscouts?

rickb
04-12-2009, 14:36
WOW! Another conspiracy theory! Next blame the Illuminati :D

Wrong. They check EVERYONE in The Place-not profiling. If they just checked Asian males under 40 years old in The Place, that would be profiling.;)

Damascus is a small town.

Perhaps one if its residents can tell us what other public places the dog is patrolling for drugs?

Has anyone seen the animal walking around the Trail Days festivities?

Or at the library?

Or perhaps a pizza joint popular with kids on a Saturday night?

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 14:36
Why don't you research it? Ask yourself why alcohol, which is more destructive is legal, tobacco which is pointless is legal and marijuana isn't.

A hiker get's busted with weed so that means hikers have to be checked? Sounds like profiling to me. Do they do this when there's a church group there? Or boyscouts?

why you prattling on so much? you've probably never been to damascus. on and on the BS goes..

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 14:39
MintakaCat-"Now, how cool is that, a police dog that profiles?"Here is a German Shepard 'profile' view.
6082:D

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 14:40
Damascus is a small town.

Perhaps one if its residents can tell us what other public places the dog is patrolling for drugs?

Has anyone seen the animal walking around the Trail Days festivities?

Or at the library?

Or perhaps a pizza joint popular with kids on a Saturday night?

you really need to call the PD or come visit since you're so very concerned about the town

rickb
04-12-2009, 14:42
you really need to call the PD or come visit since you're so very concerned about the town

I don't think the PD will much care for the opinion of someone calling from MA.

Do you?

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 14:42
Zoidfu-"Why don't you research it? "It's your wild unsupported claim, you research and support it. Quotes from 'Reefer Weekly' don't count':D

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:43
why you prattling on so much? you've probably never been to damascus. on and on the BS goes..

Prattling on? You have over 20,000 posts, most of which is one line nonsense.

I drove by the exit for Damascus on 81 once but that really isn't relevant to the discussion.

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 14:44
RickB-"I think don't think the PD will much care for the opinion of someone calling from MA. Do you?"I'm sure they'll give your call all the attention it deserves..........

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:44
It's your wild unsupported claim, you research and support it. Quotes from 'Reefer Weekly' don't count':D

Google "why is marijuana illegal." I'm not doing your homework for you old man but I will tell you it has to do with the anti chicano movement in the 30's.

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 14:48
Prattling on? You have over 20,000 posts, most of which is one line nonsense.

I drove by the exit for Damascus on 81 once but that really isn't relevant to the discussion.

and on and on he prattles about things he knows nothing about...:)

rickb
04-12-2009, 14:52
I would think that the dog would have to be very well trained.

Especially since backpacks are so rife with smells of food, and mice and white gas, and isopropyl alcohol and such.

So, what other trouble spots is the canine patrolling around Damascus? Will she be working the parade route?

nufsaid
04-12-2009, 14:52
I agree that pot should be legal. Let the dopers pay some taxes for a change. But that was not the focus of this thread. The problem is that lots of dopers feel entitled to disrespect others and do whatever they want without regard to anyone else.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:53
and on and on he prattles about things he knows nothing about...:)

Another compelling argument.. almost as good as, "you don't get it and never will." You're a goddamned scholar.

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 14:53
Zoidfu-"Google "why is marijuana illegal." I'm not doing your homework for you old man but I will tell you it has to do with the anti chicano movement in the 30's."Your claim, your burden of proof. I'm not doing YOUR homework for you skipper. But as they say in court, it's a moot point. It IS illegal and The Place has every right to set the rules for those who wish to stay there. You can posture and pout all you want, it ain't changing a thing.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 14:55
Your claim, your burden of proof. I'm not doing YOUR homework for you skipper. But as they say in court, it's a moot point. It IS illegal and The Place has every right to set the rules for those who wish to stay there. You can posture and pout all you want, it ain't changing a thing.

I already told you to put "Why is marijuana illegal" into google. Almost every hit touches on race.

Engine
04-12-2009, 14:55
supporting legalization of weed is one thing.

smoking weed that is not home grown supports a long line of crime and murder to get it to market... no matter how you rationalize it, that's is what is real

My turn, BINGO!!!

Lone Wolf
04-12-2009, 14:56
Another compelling argument.. almost as good as, "you don't get it and never will." You're a goddamned scholar.

you claim you're not a doper and you admit you've never been to damascus and you probably don't hike much so why are your panties wadded up so tight? lose the anger. find your center :cool:

Engine
04-12-2009, 14:56
here Is A German Shepard 'profile' View.
6082:d

:d :d :d :d :d :d :d

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 14:58
RickB-"...So, what other trouble spots is the canine patrolling around Damascus? Will she be working the parade route?"Why don't you call and find what other places in Damascus have REQUESTED a police patrol if that so obsesses you. It has been made clear they patrol The Place because the church requested they do just that.

reddenbacher
04-12-2009, 14:58
wolf i met you last year.and the job of watching for jack a&&ses is a thankless job.the place will get shut down. its the times,manners,respect,being resposable for ones actions is the pipe dream in todays life.one good turn deseves ,give me more and let me make the rules in your house.the %age of people with good manners is dwindling.asking you not to smoke and drink alkyhol was not much to ask for.you can get shine from town officials they are not prudes .these peaple just had a few rules.just like at my house.people that want argue about it are jerks.it has come to this because of the trac recordd of the last few years.

rickb
04-12-2009, 14:59
Geesh. Wasted so much time on this I overlooked this on the Pirates:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,514719,00.html

Way to go!

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 15:00
you claim you're not a doper and you admit you've never been to damascus and you probably don't hike much so why are your panties wadded up so tight? lose the anger. find your center :cool:

I do hike "so much" just up here. Not that hiking frequency is germane to this either. Christ, what else are you going to think of next? I don't own a drug dog so I can't comment on them?

I'm not angry, I'm just playing the game:)

Engine
04-12-2009, 15:00
wolf i met you last year.and the job of watching for jack a&&ses is a thankless job.the place will get shut down. its the times,manners,respect,being resposable for ones actions is the pipe dream in todays life.one good turn deseves ,give me more and let me make the rules in your house.the %age of people with good manners is dwindling.asking you not to smoke and drink alkyhol was not much to ask for.you can get shine from town officials they are not prudes .these peaple just had a few rules.just like at my house.people that want argue about it are jerks.it has come to this because of the trac recordd of the last few years.

Yeah, what he said.

zoidfu
04-12-2009, 15:02
What did he say?

The Old Fhart
04-12-2009, 15:02
Zoidfu-"I already told you to put "Why is marijuana illegal" into google. Almost every hit touches on race."I already told you, your unsupported claim, the burden of proof is on you. don't be so lazy and do your own work. Simple concept.