Non-Down Sleeping Bag-Logically Better???

[SunnyWalker]

I was wondering with all the comments about hiker stink and smelly sleeping bags why is it that down bags seem more popular on the AT? Does the lightness of the down bag really trump the ability to walk into a laundromat in a trail town and toss the thing (non down bag) in and then dry it thus clean and smelling good? It seems to me that this would be a great advantage and can the weight savings be such a priority that this would be ignored? I mean to go on a thru hike as light as possible. However, I sure would like to say clean the bag or pop it in a dryer if it is soaked and etc. Down would be at a disadvantage here. Or am I wrong in all this thinking? Comments welcome. :banana

[DAJA]

I toss my down bag in the washer and dryer, no trouble. If I have a choice I try and use cold water and cool dry setting... But I have no fear of washing my down bag..

[SunnyWalker]

Hmmmm I was under the impression that to toss a down bag in a washer and/or dryer was damaging to it. Possibly it could ruin its effectiveness? I really am wondering and I have read a lot about all this. But I was wondering what do our hikers on the AT actually do or use on this subject?

[Feral Bill]

Synthetic holds stink more.

Cleanliness is next to impossible.

[Feral Bill]

Seriously, if this is a big concern you could use a washable liner, or sleep clothes and wash them regularly.

I wash my down bags in a front load washer once in an extremely great while with no apparent ill effect.

[sliderule]

Hmmmm I was under the impression that to toss a down bag in a washer and/or dryer was damaging to it.

Use only a front-loading washing machine and avoid drying on more than a warm setting. A top-loading washing machine with an agitator will rip the baffles apart. (Unless you have something like a Western Mountaineering sewn-through bag.)

[bigcranky]

Using logic? On Whiteblaze? That'll get you in trouble....

Seriously, a down bag is just as washable as a synthetic bag. For any kind of sleeping bag one needs to use a large capacity front-loading washer -- the kind found in a laundromat, for the most part. For a down bag, use down soap if available, or laundry soap. Just don't use detergent. Rinse it twice, and dry it on the no-heat setting. For. A. Long. Time. (Check the dryer to make sure the no-heat setting really is no heat. And sit there and watch -- you don't want the attendant "helpfully" putting the dryer on High while you aren't there.)

Beyond that, the choice of down or synthetic is still a matter of personal preference. I happen to prefer down, but YMMV.

[rainmakerat92]

I don't wear my hiking clothes in my bag. I use alcohol and cotton balls on the "obvious" areas of my body at the end of the day, and weather permitting, I"ll get a sponge-bath. Then I change into my "sleeping/lounging" clothes, and sleep in them.

I've had to spot-clean my bags with a small amount of soap and water, but I don't think I've ever thrown a sleeping bag into a washing machine. Airing the bag in the sun (right-side out and inside-out) has always done the trick. In addition, sometimes I'll use a fabric softener-sheets inside the bag.

Right now, I have a down bag (Marmot Hydrogen), but I've had synthetic bags in the past, too.

[stranger]

A down bag is superior for a number of reasons. First off, down is much warmer than the best synthetics for the same weight. Down is also much more compact, and lofts much better than synthetic. Down also has a longer life span, assuming you treat it properly, and is more durable overall. The feel of down is lovely in my view, and it's draping quality is another great feature. These days, even the cost is minimal, you can get new down bags that work very well at places like Campmor for $120.

Washing a down bag is only a problem when someone uses a washing machine with a agitator, which can tear the baffles on any bag, down or synthetic, or when someone washes the bag with a detergent soap. Down has a natural oil in it called Lanolin, because detergent removes oil, it will remove the Lanolin from the down and thus make the down less effective in the long run. A simple silk liner is a very easy way of keeping your down bag clean, or just wearing camp only lightweight thermals to bed.

There is of course the water argument, however, this tends to be more of a concern with inexperienced hikers than veteran hikers. It's fairly simple to keep a down bag dry, and although it may get damp at times due to endless days of rain or condensation from a tent, I've never had a down bag get to the point where it's performance was noticeably compromised.

[Lone Wolf]

I was wondering with all the comments about hiker stink and smelly sleeping bags why is it that down bags seem more popular on the AT? Does the lightness of the down bag really trump the ability to walk into a laundromat in a trail town and toss the thing (non down bag) in and then dry it thus clean and smelling good? It seems to me that this would be a great advantage and can the weight savings be such a priority that this would be ignored? I mean to go on a thru hike as light as possible. However, I sure would like to say clean the bag or pop it in a dryer if it is soaked and etc. Down would be at a disadvantage here. Or am I wrong in all this thinking? Comments welcome. :banana

i used a Cats Meow for well over 10,000 miles of AT hiking. absolutely nothing wrong with a synthetic bag. once again marketing has done it's job when you see walkers with $400 down bags

[jigsaw]

ive used both and the only advantage to down is how small it compresses.as far as down being warmer im not so sure, the temp ratings on most bags are false anyway

[aaronthebugbuffet]

I never wash my synthetic bags either.:eek:

[Tinker]

Down costs more, compacts better, and, imo, most importantly, lasts longer (retains its warmth). Synthetics can be ruined by one trip into a hot dryer (been there, done that, with a 2 year old, seldom used bag), prolonged storage in a stuff sack, or left stuffed in a hot place like attic or car trunk. Down's down side is that it loses nearly all of its loft when soaked, and if the shell is torn, the down can quickly be lost (always carry duct tape).
In real life, I might carry synthetics on a river trip (haven't done one in a number of years). I've never gotten a down bag soaked, ever hiking. As mentioned above, of course, down is more expensive, so for shorter hikes and occasional use in mild weather, synthetics are fine. They quickly get very heavy when their intended use is cold weather hiking/camping.

[Compass]

I own 2 TNF Synthetic Cats Meow bags(one for me and one for wife) and Stored them extremely carefully. At about 1100 miles of section hikes I noticed my bag had half the loft of my seldom used wifes bag. At 3.5 pounds the less than 1" of remaining loft was not worth hauling and bought a 22 oz. Down No Sniveler Quilt from Jacks R Better and have been very happy with it.

Lone Wolf has had good results with this bag but I am not satisfied with the Polarguard Delta Insulation.

[JAK]

What is the equivalent Fill Power of the best synthetic fill ?
600? 400? Anyone know?

At what point does cheap down make no sense?

[JAK]

I'm thinking more and more some sort of wool/fleece/nylon bedroll might be the way to go in summer. I can't see it being much more than a pound heavier, and I think there would be some advantage in washability, durability, DIYability, and overall coolness.

[JAK]

For summer, just a 2 pound DIY wool/fleece bedroll inside of a nylon shell.
For spring/fall some sort of decent 3 pound down sleeping bag.
For winter, the 2 pound DIY wool/fleece bedroll inside of the 3 pound sleeping bag.

[Tinker]

I have a 16 oz. Montbell down thermal sheet which is warm enough for most summer hiking. An extra pound for a shelled fleece is only an extra pound, and it will probably last forever, but it is fleece and can't have much loft for its weight. REI makes a 55 degree summer synthetic mummy bag which is fairly inexpensive. I have one and use it once in a while. It weighs 1# 4oz.

[mister krabs]

I'm thinking more and more some sort of wool/fleece/nylon bedroll might be the way to go in summer. I can't see it being much more than a pound heavier, and I think there would be some advantage in washability, durability, DIYability, and overall coolness.

I think so too. I've been using a fleece rectangular sleeping bag in the summer. It's fairly heavy for what it is because of the huge zipper and attracts dirt and debris like a magnet. I'd like to get a light fleece mummy bag with a shell, but I can't find many commercially available. I'd get this (http://www.alpsmountaineering.com/ALPSMountaineeringButterfly.htm) if it came in a long, but it doesn't, so I am outta luck so far.

[Tinker]

Take a look at this:
http://www.rei.com/product/731835?preferredSku=7318350027&cm_mmc=cse_froogle-_-datafeed-_-product-_-7318350027&mr:trackingCode=D7ACDB8E-0419-DE11-B4E3-0019B9C043EB&mr:referralID=NA

[sliderule]

A down bag is superior for a number of reasons.

And a synthetic bag is superior for a number of other reasons.

[Colter]

i used a Cats Meow for well over 10,000 miles of AT hiking. absolutely nothing wrong with a synthetic bag. once again marketing has done it's job when you see walkers with $400 down bags

Looks like a Cat's Meow weighs 2 lbs 10 oz. and costs about $159. The Rock Wren (with "overfill") I hike with weighs 1 lb 13 oz. and cost about $300. Add the significant weight savings to the compressibility and durability and warmth of quality down. It was those factors, not marketing, that were responsible for my decision to buy that bag.

[Two Speed]

I must be one of the dumb ones, for two reasons. Washed my synthetic bags in a top loader. Admittedly, only once in a while, but always in a top loader. No harm that I can tell.

Second reason is I bought a down bag a couple of years ago, one of those gee-whiz fancy ones with nylon tricot for baffles. My understanding is a top loader will mess that up, so that one's only been in a front loading washing machine. Fortunately my brother has one of those, so I go over to his place once in a while and wash my down bag.

Having gotten a little stupid I want to get really good and stupid and spend the money for a good Jacks R Better down quilt.

Go figure.

[Alli]

I liked my synthetic bag, it was cheap and lightweight. But I was uneducated and stored it in a stuff bag. After 6 years it has absolutely no loft left and even though it was rated to 32 it doesn't keep me warm past 50. It's my fault, but I've heard since down doesn't break down like synthetic insulation a stuffed bag might last longer. Who knows.

[JAK]

So what is the fillpower of the best synthetic compared to down? 500?

[JAK]

What I'm saying it 900 fill might be better than synthetic, but a good synthetic with its other qualities might be as good as 500 fill, maybe even 600 fill, or maybe only 450 fill, of the same weight.

[JAK]

Where does wool and fleece fit in? 200 fill? Not sure, but they have some advantages for warmer weather. For one they only need a shell on the outside, and it can be separate. Then with wool there is the recovering latent heat thing. Plus whatever your bedroll is it could double as a cape or kilt or poncho during the day, and look really cool.

[Two Speed]

. . . But I was uneducated and stored it in a stuff bag . . . Yup, that'll do it. Don't think storing a down bag in a stuff sack is good for down either. Anyway, I've got too much money in that sucker to take the chance and it came with a nice big mesh bag, so that's what it stays in when it's not packed for hiking.

[Engine]

Looks like a Cat's Meow weighs 2 lbs 10 oz. and costs about $159. The Rock Wren (with "overfill") I hike with weighs 1 lb 13 oz. and cost about $300. Add the significant weight savings to the compressibility and durability and warmth of quality down. It was those factors, not marketing, that were responsible for my decision to buy that bag.

My wife's 20* Kelty down bag weighs 2lbs. 3oz. and compresses to 1/2 the size of a Cat's Meow for almost exactly the same price. What's not to like?

[berninbush]

The earlier conversation about summer-weight cheap bags made me think about the ones I own from Guide Gear (www.sportsmansguide.com (http://www.sportsmansguide.com)). I bought several (for myself and to share with friends) that are only rated to 50F, but they only cost $25 each. They seem to be more durable, comfortable, and warmer than fleece, and I think they're only about a pound each. They also roll down incredibly small.

Unfortunately, I don't think Sportsman's Guide has any for sale right now. They seem to come and go.

[Pootz]

I like my Western Mountianeering bags, temp ratings seem right on and they look good as new. During my thru-hike just aired it out at least once a week and had no problems with smell or anything else. I went with down for the size, warmth, comfort and weight. With any sleeping bag you have to keep it dry at all costs or you are going to be cold. Keep your bag in a light weight waterproof stuff sack and put that in a barbage bag and you will have no problems.

Hike your own hike and sleep in anything you want.

[Blissful]

cut down on the stink with a silk liner.

[Mags]

Unfortunately, I don't think Sportsman's Guide has any for sale right now. They seem to come and go.

For carcamping, they had these bomber -15F (yes) rectangular bags for $65 ea if I recall correctly. Even had fleece lining. I bought two as zipped together they make a nice double sleeping bag that is toasty (if not quite -15F due to them being rectangular and two people sharing a bag). Since my truck is hauling the weight, the size/bulk of these bags do not matter. I have no reason to buy high quality down sleeping bags for car camping. The cheap, but serviceable ones, works fine.


I think synthetic has its place. Car camping, getting people into backpacking on the real cheap, etc.

I just think down is better for backpacking overall.

YMMV

[Blissful]

My son used a Cat's Meow throughout his hike and did well.

I just used my new Montbell ul down hugger last week, boy I love that thing. Good water resistant and quick drying cover on it too. Worth the price. I call it my baby. :)