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Ickuss
04-19-2009, 12:10
I just listened to the Smokies Pod Cast and was PO'ed listening to the report about the amount of trash this new inconsiderate me me me generation of ultra-light gram squeezing thru-hikers are leaving and concealing at the shelters. Is it asking to much for you to pack out your grams and ounces of trash, after all, you packed it in. No wonder there is a bear problem at these shelters. I'm not harping on everyone, because the majority of us are responsible Leave No Trace Backpackers. BE RESPONSIBLE, your own safety and others is at stake.

kyhipo
04-19-2009, 12:12
I just listened to the Smokies Pod Cast and was PO'ed listening to the report about the amount of trash this new inconsiderate me me me generation of ultra-light gram squeezing thru-hikers are leaving and concealing at the shelters. Is it asking to much for you to pack out your grams and ounces of trash, after all, you packed it in. No wonder there is a bear problem at these shelters. I'm not harping on everyone, because the majority of us are responsible Leave No Trace Backpackers. BE RESPONSIBLE, your own safety and others is at stake.f'kn ultra lighters candy wrapers,cant even pick their trash up.ky

Sidewinder
04-19-2009, 12:21
What makes you think it's UL hikers or thru-hikers leaving all the trash? There's plenty of weekend hikers, day hikers and lord only knows how many heavy load hikers in the GSMNP.

kyhipo
04-19-2009, 12:25
What makes you think it's UL hikers or thru-hikers leaving all the trash? There's plenty of weekend hikers, day hikers and lord only knows how many heavy load hikers in the GSMNP.
go figure :-?

JAK
04-19-2009, 12:41
If they were real ULers they wouldn't be carrying any trash in, never mind out.
Leave stuff that becomes trash at home, and buy less of it.

I think Ultralight Hiking needs to give way to Simpler Suistainable Hiking.
Once you've gone light, instead of going UL, maybe go SL.

JAK
04-19-2009, 12:50
But yeah, I gotta say the current generation hitting their 20s today
is surprising less environmentally concious than those of the 70s, even 80s.

We had some students do a project on the future of the automobile industry, and it was all about size and style and horsepower. Not anything about fuel economy except they mentioned that some families like to save some money. Where have these kids have been? There are exceptions, but in general the backward thinking messages seem to be winning. Kids today seem to think that they personally are going to succeed and buy whatever the heck they want, and nothing else matters.

We have to stop dragging our knuckles on these issues.

JAK
04-19-2009, 12:52
The real message should be to buy less trash before you hike.

Frosty
04-19-2009, 14:23
I just listened to the Smokies Pod Cast and was PO'ed listening to the report about the amount of trash this new inconsiderate me me me generation of ultra-light gram squeezing thru-hikers are leaving and concealing at the shelters. Is it asking to much for you to pack out your grams and ounces of trash, after all, you packed it in.Who are you addressing this to? You think the ultra-light thruhikers on Whiteblaze are leaving wine bottles, excess food packaging, and old clothing in shelters?

Before you pop a vein getting PO'd, you ought to know that people do stuff like this out of ignorance, that I doubt if many of us on whiteblaze leave trash behind, and that most of all, ultralight hikers, both of the thru and section persuasion, do not pack in wine bottles, unneeded clothing, tin cans and other excess food packaging, so you are targeting the wrong group. Look to the huge-pack-carrying weekenders for this crap.

JAK
04-19-2009, 14:33
That's a good point. Most people that do that stuff do it on their first hike.

I think the original post was meant to be offensive to ULers. There is something to it that could be applied to all hikers, not ULers, but leaving trash is almost always a first time hiker thing.

I still think the real message should be for hikers not to buy so much trash to begin with.

JAK
04-19-2009, 14:35
Truth might be that the original post was more of a dig at the youth of today.
I think that's fair game, as long as we are willing to take a few digs back.
Keep the dialogue going across the generation gaps.

Ickuss
04-19-2009, 15:03
If you read it right, it is the me me me under 30 generation. Last year at Tri-Corner I chased down several 20ish SOBers that spent the night there (said they were headed for GA) and gave them back their 4 empty fuel cans that they left behind. No, it wasn't meant to be offensive to ULers. Just all around irresponsible hikers. Sorry if you took it that way. I have fellow hikers who are ULers, but they are responsible with leave no trace.

Tinker
04-19-2009, 15:16
Youth has always been somewhat resistant to receiving instructions. If you tell them what they should do they will often do just the opposite because they want to teach you that you can't make them do anything. Taking the time to calmly explain how important their actions are to the environment and the enjoyment of others goes a long way. Blowing your stack does not, has not, and never will make a positive, lasting change in the hearts of young people.
I have noticed an increase in litter left at shelters (and on the trail) despite the "leave no trace" signs at trailheads. Some folks don't get it, some don't care. You can instruct the uninstructed, but there's no way to mandate a caring attitude.

Ickuss
04-19-2009, 16:17
Very well said Tinker, and also a common since approach to this problem on the trail makes a lasting impression for generations to come.

Engine
04-19-2009, 16:54
That's a good point. Most people that do that stuff do it on their first hike.

I think the original post was meant to be offensive to ULers. There is something to it that could be applied to all hikers, not ULers, but leaving trash is almost always a first time hiker thing.

I still think the real message should be for hikers not to buy so much trash to begin with.

Good point, we create so little trash during a 5-6 day hike that it fits in a quart size ziplock. The UL movement is primarily expressed among experienced hikers who have the confidence to do with less. I have actually hiked back over a mile when we realized we had dropped a bandanna on the trail. We didn't want to leave it laying there for someone to have to deal with. In my experience the great majority of trash comes from weekenders, scouting groups (which dumbfounds me), day hikers, etc...

wrongway_08
04-19-2009, 17:09
Left a wine bottle and a few empty gallon jugs of water at a shelter - of course this was only because Askus3 was comming back for the next day.

I think we all have packed out extra trash at some time, sucks to have to do but we need to do it or these great places will get trashed quick.

I clean the local park by my house, amazing how many cig butts, plastic bottles, wrappers, fishing line and such get tossed on the ground. This park has about 6 trash cans, so these are some LAZY people leaving the trash behind. Usually every 3 weeks I get 2 large black trash bags full.

Its everywhere, not just the A.T..

zoidfu
04-19-2009, 17:17
Peer pressure is the answer to this. I don't remember ever seeing someone litter in front me yet there's no shortage of garbage in the fire pits and shelters.

Engine
04-19-2009, 17:32
Peer pressure is the answer to this. I don't remember ever seeing someone litter in front me yet there's no shortage of garbage in the fire pits and shelters.

One time we were lamenting a water filter that wouldn't function due to a dried out o-ring. I had no sooner described the need for some silicone to fix it, when my daughter found a tiny tube of silicone in the dirt next to the fire pit. I was glad someone had left that piece of trash. :)

The Weasel
04-19-2009, 19:16
I just listened to the Smokies Pod Cast and was PO'ed listening to the report about the amount of trash this new inconsiderate me me me generation of ultra-light gram squeezing thru-hikers are leaving and concealing at the shelters. Is it asking to much for you to pack out your grams and ounces of trash, after all, you packed it in. No wonder there is a bear problem at these shelters. I'm not harping on everyone, because the majority of us are responsible Leave No Trace Backpackers. BE RESPONSIBLE, your own safety and others is at stake.

Yes, I'm certain that you have never littered; the virtue drips from every word you write. Next time I pack, I'll throw my copy of "Beyond Backpacking" in my pack so I can shred it and throw it all over a shelter to attract bears for all you "heavy lifters" who never, ever, EVER leave your tinfoil in the firepit or your snuff cans in the shelter.

Sheesh. Another unnecessary rant.

TW

DAJA
04-19-2009, 19:45
Whenever you hear the words, "kids these days!", take a pause and ask yourself, well who is responsible for "these kids"? And if the answer to the question is not you or your generation, then it's your kids raising "kids these days". Either way your responsible. If you see a decline in youth, or don't like the direction things are going, remember, you 've been the driver of this car for the past 50yrs, where we are and where we are heading is your doing! Take responsibility!

The Weasel
04-19-2009, 19:52
Whenever you hear the words, "kids these days!", take a pause and ask yourself, well who is responsible for "these kids"? And if the answer to the question is not you or your generation, then it's your kids raising "kids these days". Either way your responsible. If you see a decline in youth, or don't like the direction things are going, remember, you 've been the driver of this car for the past 50yrs, where we are and where we are heading is your doing! Take responsibility!

"Why can't they be like we were,
perfect in every way!
WHAT's the matter with KIDS today!"

- "Bye Bye Birdie", 1963

Ickuss
04-19-2009, 20:07
Sorry Weasel, but I do not do tobacco products as you seem to imply. So you will not find snuff cans following me.

mindi
04-19-2009, 20:42
I think it's very easy for people to jump on the 'damn kids!' bandwagon, when in actuality you don't know who left the trash. I see people of all ages doing stupid things. I've seen younger hikers packing out trash that wasn't their own, and older hikers leaving half-burned crap in fire rings, and vice versa.

Bottom line, it's not about your age or your pack weight..it's about whether or not you're an inconsiderate jerk.

JAK
04-19-2009, 23:54
True enough. Could be anyone.

I still think its worth getting all crotchety at them now and again though.
It's a time honoured tradition.

After all, someone's gotta teach them to get all crotchety when they get older.

JAK
04-19-2009, 23:57
When I was in Basic Training my Platoon Commander told us something that really stuck.
He said you can't hope to change people's behaviour unless you love them.
Kinda weird coming from someone trained to kill people without hating them.
Both make sense though, if you think about it.

Bronk
04-20-2009, 01:05
When I went through the smokies it seemed to me like 95% of the people there were not ultralighters and they were not thruhikers. Most of them were college kids on spring break, with a few older section hikers and weekend warriors...and most of the people who fit into these categories were carrying very heavy packs...like guys who carried in lawn chairs and stuff like that.

Before entering the smokies Many Sleeps told us "We like having thruhikers in the park because you all tend to leave less trash behind than the rest of the people that hike through here and you set the example for everyone else."

And ditto on the silicone...I probably found a dozen tubes of that stuff near springs and other water sources...its easy for that to fall out of the stuff sack when you are filtering water...I have to confess that I lost mine somewhere...I found it funny because I had packed out and thrown away so many tubes of the stuff and then I was left without any.

Downhill Trucker
04-20-2009, 04:57
Ultra light hiking and leaving trash at shelters have nothing to do with each other. Absolutely nothing.

I packed out about 5lbs of trash from a shelter in MD a week and a half ago. All of that trash was left by a variety of hikers.

I did find a really nice, expensive titanium stake that some ultra lighter probably littered behind. I was glad to throw that in the stake bag!

Thru hikers don't have much time or effort to expend on cleaning up what others leave behind. Weekend hikers and volunteers often clean up a lot of what others leave behind. I believe the people who are leaving the most stuff behind are the dayhikers and the people out on their first trip. Unfortunately, they aren't on Whiteblaze to read your post. Pick up more than you leave, that's all that you can do.

Lone Wolf
04-20-2009, 06:37
I packed out about 5lbs of trash from a shelter in MD a week and a half ago. Pick up more than you leave, that's all that you can do.

nope. i never pack out other's trash. shelters are urban areas. avoid the filthy things

Engine
04-20-2009, 06:42
nope. i never pack out other's trash. shelters are urban areas. avoid the filthy things

It is only a matter of time until we see signs on the shelter like "Jerry's Cabin Shelter, Sponsored by Ben and Jerry's". The ultimate trash and then it'll be a cold day in you know where before I ever sleep in another one again.

kanga
04-20-2009, 08:50
nope. i never pack out other's trash. shelters are urban areas. avoid the filthy things
i don't go to shelters just keep on truckin, but i do pick up the thousands of powerbar corners that are my trail to the witches house. i understand tho. they are just so damn heavy! i wouldn't want to carry them either if i didn't have to. it's the ocd that won't let me leave them there for somebody else to follow. i hope they don't get lost.

Colter
04-20-2009, 09:11
Pick up more than you leave, that's all that you can do.

It makes all the difference in the world. The whole AT would be littered if thousands of people didn't pitch in to help. Some do a whole lot, some do a little, but it all really helps.

DAJA
04-20-2009, 09:32
Humans are simply a wasteful disgusting species. I was out for a little weekend trip, complete bushwacking, no trail, no roads or logging roads, nothing, just thick dense forest and medows for two days, and roughly 20 miles distance traveled. In that time I found beer bottles (old stubby's), oil tins I assume from logging 25 yrs ago, old tires, and even an old car... Since I found no plastic, I assume it wasn't left by "kids these days". Until we reconsider the path we're on, trash will suround us everywhere we go... Consumer culture creates trash... Don't like trash, lets find new ways of living that don't involve insane over consumption!

Fiddleback
04-20-2009, 10:53
Old enough to remember the weeping Native American anti-littering PSA? Littering was much worse 'back then'. Still, it's a problem, on and off the trail. Seems to me there was a scene about throwing trash and unwanted items down the hill in Bryson's much revered, A Walk in the Woods.

A few years ago I was moving my pack out of the way while I set up camp. A glint caught my eye -- I moved a rock away from a much larger boulder and found, neatly crushed, the empty cans from a six-pack of beer. Not only did 'they' spend the effort to lug in the six pack but 'they' also took the time to neatly hide the empties. The weight and pack space it took to carry the cans out wasn't noticeable. Perplexing...frustrating...and worthy of getting PO'd...just like when I read Bryson's passage...

FB

JAK
04-20-2009, 10:58
In general littering has gotten better in North America.
Some countries are still bad. Some are still better.

Our problem now isn't so much littering and consumption and waste.

JAK
04-20-2009, 11:00
I meant to say our problem today isn't so much littering as it is overconsumption and waste.

Chaco Taco
04-20-2009, 22:25
[QUOTE=Ickuss;823654 ultra-light gram squeezing thru-hikers [/QUOTE]

But this is your words. I will say this because I saw it last year and am seeing it this year.
In Maine last year, a SOBOer in his late 40's dumped his foil packs in the fire pits. I called him out and he says it the responsibility of the caretakers to pack out the trash because that is what we pay the fees for. He was carrying 35+. I have seen three separate packs of Thru's this year. Not ULers. They also happen to be in there mid 30's. They too leave gobs of trash in firepits. When i am on trail, I consistently am reminding hikers to pack it in pack it out. None of them have been ULers. I see more and more hikers with lighter packs picking up trash as they walk. You walk a very thin line when you use so many groups to get pissed at. The kids, the ULers whoever. It is a real problem right now,i agree with you there. Its not always the Thruhikers either. Granted they make up a large percentage and its just a matter of time for them but blaming one group wont solve the problem.

Chaco Taco
04-20-2009, 22:29
f'kn ultra lighters candy wrapers,cant even pick their trash up.ky

You just always seem to jump on bandwagons. Do you ever have anything useful to offer to the conversation instead of blaming people and being so judgemental? You take a hike!:rolleyes:

Chaco Taco
04-20-2009, 22:31
Left a wine bottle and a few empty gallon jugs of water at a shelter - of course this was only because Askus3 was comming back for the next day.

I think we all have packed out extra trash at some time, sucks to have to do but we need to do it or these great places will get trashed quick.

I clean the local park by my house, amazing how many cig butts, plastic bottles, wrappers, fishing line and such get tossed on the ground. This park has about 6 trash cans, so these are some LAZY people leaving the trash behind. Usually every 3 weeks I get 2 large black trash bags full.

Its everywhere, not just the A.T..

Nice point Wrongway:clap:clap

Tennessee Viking
04-21-2009, 00:57
Freezer bags will be vary helpful with cooking and taking out trash.

freefall
04-21-2009, 02:11
I think it's very easy for people to jump on the 'damn kids!' bandwagon, when in actuality you don't know who left the trash. I see people of all ages doing stupid things. I've seen younger hikers packing out trash that wasn't their own, and older hikers leaving half-burned crap in fire rings, and vice versa.

Bottom line, it's not about your age or your pack weight..it's about whether or not you're an inconsiderate jerk.
I agree. I have seen all ages leave "stuff" all over trails, deliberately and unintentionally. From tents to "its ok to put Ramen wrappers in the fire." But it is always the former generation's responsibility to teach the next about, in this case, trash detail.

Chaco Taco
04-21-2009, 10:35
I agree. I have seen all ages leave "stuff" all over trails, deliberately and unintentionally. From tents to "its ok to put Ramen wrappers in the fire." But it is always the former generation's responsibility to teach the next about, in this case, trash detail.
Not sure about the former generation's responsibility. Its EVERYONES responsibility! As hikers and frequent users of ALL trails, not just the AT, we have to educate newbies and trail vets. If you see someone leaving ANYTHING at shelters, campsites, etc. Call them out. Firepits are not for burning trash either. Its not kosher to burn the foil packs from tuna or meals. They are really bad for the environment and yes they do attract bears and other varments!

JAK
04-21-2009, 10:59
Over-consumption is a more serious problem than littering and disposal. In many respects, by getting better at not littering and by poluting, we have paved the way to make the problem worse by over-comsuming more. Not to say that littering and poluting is the answer. Just food for thought.

JAK
04-21-2009, 11:00
by poluting less I meant, on a per unit basis

OldStormcrow
04-21-2009, 15:56
I try to be seen picking up some kind of trash whenever a tourist family goes by, thereby causing the parents to take that opportunity to preach to their offspring about the evils of littering....thus keeping their little tribe from littering for one day, at least. What really gets me is when a ranger walks by me and asks what I am doing with a confused look on his face. They're just not used to that sort of thing.

Chaco Taco
04-21-2009, 17:02
I try to be seen picking up some kind of trash whenever a tourist family goes by, thereby causing the parents to take that opportunity to preach to their offspring about the evils of littering....thus keeping their little tribe from littering for one day, at least. What really gets me is when a ranger walks by me and asks what I am doing with a confused look on his face. They're just not used to that sort of thing.

You rock!!!:D:D:D

DAJA
04-21-2009, 17:37
The most satisfaction I ever had due to litter:

I was hiking in Fundy National Park, Jak i'm sure you can vouch for the worthy trails here. Anyway I was enjoying a day hike when I witnessed a couple finishing up lunch about half a km down the trail. As I approached where they had been eating, I noticed a baggie, and one of those quick lunch cracker and sausage containers. I pick it up and carry on... I catch up to the couple in the parking lot just as they are loading there packs in the truck of their car...

I casually walk up and say hello, ask about their hike, and just before he closes his trunk, I pull out his trash and politely say, oh by the way you forgot this back at the previous campsite, and dump the mess in his trunk, wish them a nice afternoon and walk away... Both him and his gal had such a dumbfounded look on their face, they couldn't utter a word... Priceless!

When I witness people tossing trash out their car window, I've been known to pull over pick it up, follow them home and deposite the trash in thier driveway...

You will never correct the behaviour of litterbugs, anyone so lazy and willing to use our world as their personal garbage can, won't change their ways, however, you may as will get some satisfaction by humiliating them even for a second...

But the reality is, we're all guilty of defacing our planet... Our entire way of life defies nature... Again, we're simply a selfish and disgusting species. So as holier than thou I can be, I'm as guilty as they guy tossing his junk on the trail..

sheepdog
04-21-2009, 18:15
Fine untill the litterbug nut attacks your car with a baseball bat. One must be careful, it could go bad.

DAJA
04-21-2009, 18:17
Fine untill the litterbug nut attacks your car with a baseball bat. One must be careful, it could go bad.

That has happened... I got punched in the face once in a guys driveway, I also had a rear passenger window broken out by a rock... Still worth it!

DAJA
04-21-2009, 18:24
Here in Canada, we have a coffee joint that called Tim Horton's... There cups litter every corner of Canada.. It has become such a huge problem that many municipalities are currently trying to force them to charge a deposit on their disposable coffee cups, in the hopes that people will start carrying re-usable mugs with them to prevent the mess... Anyway, i've gotten completely fed up finding these coffee cups everywhere. So recently i've started collecting them when I find them, storing them in my trunk, and once a week I walk into our local Tims, and return their cups... I dump them right on the counter, and walk out... Last week the cops where there when I did it, and the manager asked that they do something, they all looked at one another, and then shrugged and said, what exactly would you like us to do?

Lone Wolf
04-21-2009, 20:37
Here in Canada, we have a coffee joint that called Tim Horton's... There cups litter every corner of Canada.. So recently i've started collecting them when I find them, storing them in my trunk, and once a week I walk into our local Tims, and return their cups... I dump them right on the counter, and walk out... Last week the cops where there when I did it, and the manager asked that they do something, they all looked at one another, and then shrugged and said, what exactly would you like us to do?

we have Hortons here also in the USA and i call BS on dumping trash on a Hortons counter

Lone Wolf
04-21-2009, 20:38
That has happened... I got punched in the face once in a guys driveway, I also had a rear passenger window broken out by a rock... Still worth it!

more BS :rolleyes:

Lone Wolf
04-21-2009, 20:39
The most satisfaction I ever had due to litter:

I was hiking in Fundy National Park, Jak i'm sure you can vouch for the worthy trails here. Anyway I was enjoying a day hike when I witnessed a couple finishing up lunch about half a km down the trail. As I approached where they had been eating, I noticed a baggie, and one of those quick lunch cracker and sausage containers. I pick it up and carry on... I catch up to the couple in the parking lot just as they are loading there packs in the truck of their car...

I casually walk up and say hello, ask about their hike, and just before he closes his trunk, I pull out his trash and politely say, oh by the way you forgot this back at the previous campsite, and dump the mess in his trunk, wish them a nice afternoon and walk away... Both him and his gal had such a dumbfounded look on their face, they couldn't utter a word... Priceless!

When I witness people tossing trash out their car window, I've been known to pull over pick it up, follow them home and deposite the trash in thier driveway...

You will never correct the behaviour of litterbugs, anyone so lazy and willing to use our world as their personal garbage can, won't change their ways, however, you may as will get some satisfaction by humiliating them even for a second...

But the reality is, we're all guilty of defacing our planet... Our entire way of life defies nature... Again, we're simply a selfish and disgusting species. So as holier than thou I can be, I'm as guilty as they guy tossing his junk on the trail..
and more BS :D this ain't the bad ass thread

DAJA
04-21-2009, 20:57
LW, believe it or not, it matters not to me...

If i'm ever fortunate enough to do a thru, I can tell you now that my trail name will quickly become "abrasive"... I don't intend to be, and I generally feel happy go lucky, but I cannot bite my tongue or not act when I see or hear things that irritate me or are just generally harmful to all...

Who knows, my next act of self inflation may be directed at one of you, so watch your step!

Skidsteer
04-21-2009, 20:58
That has happened... I got punched in the face once in a guys driveway, I also had a rear passenger window broken out by a rock... Still worth it!


more BS :rolleyes:

I don't know. I can totally understand that one.

Lone Wolf
04-21-2009, 20:59
Who knows, my next act of self inflation may be directed at one of you, so watch your step!

"one of you?" what is one of you? don't threaten me either cupcake :)

DAJA
04-21-2009, 21:03
"one of you?" what is one of you? don't threaten me either cupcake :)

Opposite of "none of you". No worry's, wasn't a threat muffin;)

Wise Old Owl
04-21-2009, 21:04
Ouch ouch Ouch!

Chaco Taco
04-21-2009, 21:59
Q the exit music!:banana

buff_jeff
04-21-2009, 22:02
I was hoping the Flyers would pack out the trash today.

GAH! I can't stand the pens.

DC2.2GSR
04-22-2009, 02:16
But yeah, I gotta say the current generation hitting their 20s today
is surprising less environmentally concious than those of the 70s, even 80s.

We had some students do a project on the future of the automobile industry, and it was all about size and style and horsepower. Not anything about fuel economy except they mentioned that some families like to save some money. Where have these kids have been? There are exceptions, but in general the backward thinking messages seem to be winning. Kids today seem to think that they personally are going to succeed and buy whatever the heck they want, and nothing else matters.

We have to stop dragging our knuckles on these issues.

i agree completely, and i'm one of those that you speak of. i'm 23 and i can say from personal experience with those closest to me, not many people care any more. it's hard to enforce any kind of personal discipline. you talk about packing out what you brought in and people think you're some kind of wacko tree hugger... not possibly someone who just cares a little bit about leaving a place as they found it or better.

3 weeks ago we set up camp a bit early and were passed by a large boy scout troop who was just finishing up for the day also. they set up camp about a half mile further. we lounged around in the morning and they evidently packed out early. when we passed the site(s) where they stayed, we found 3 huge bags of trash sitting right next to the trail as if they were set out for a garbage truck. my friend and i picked up the bags and hauled ass for about a half hour until we finally caught up with them just as they were taking a break. 20+ boy scouts and adult leaders and they all looked at us as if we were the devil. i walked right up to the 3 leaders and set the bags in front of them and said "here guys, you forgot something... glad we could help!" my friend said something like 'wow, way to go.. tech em right!'

the leaders looked so confused. i simply said 'no trash trucks running this route today' and we continued on. i almost couldn't believe that a boy scout group could act that way. it's sad, it really is.

Bimble
04-22-2009, 04:17
Seems to me there was a scene about throwing trash and unwanted items down the hill in Bryson's much revered, A Walk in the Woods.


I think its worth mentioning that Bryson wasn't the one who actually littered in A Walk in The Woods. He reported Katz doing it, and obviously thought he was an idiot for doing so.

Bryson has done an awful lot to stop the proliferation of litter in the countryside, see the following for further info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6614295.stm

Engine
04-22-2009, 06:42
The most satisfaction I ever had due to litter:

I was hiking in Fundy National Park, Jak i'm sure you can vouch for the worthy trails here. Anyway I was enjoying a day hike when I witnessed a couple finishing up lunch about half a km down the trail. As I approached where they had been eating, I noticed a baggie, and one of those quick lunch cracker and sausage containers. I pick it up and carry on... I catch up to the couple in the parking lot just as they are loading there packs in the truck of their car...

I casually walk up and say hello, ask about their hike, and just before he closes his trunk, I pull out his trash and politely say, oh by the way you forgot this back at the previous campsite, and dump the mess in his trunk, wish them a nice afternoon and walk away... Both him and his gal had such a dumbfounded look on their face, they couldn't utter a word... Priceless!

When I witness people tossing trash out their car window, I've been known to pull over pick it up, follow them home and deposite the trash in thier driveway...

You will never correct the behaviour of litterbugs, anyone so lazy and willing to use our world as their personal garbage can, won't change their ways, however, you may as will get some satisfaction by humiliating them even for a second...

But the reality is, we're all guilty of defacing our planet... Our entire way of life defies nature... Again, we're simply a selfish and disgusting species. So as holier than thou I can be, I'm as guilty as they guy tossing his junk on the trail..

Years ago, when we first moved into our present home, I heard a bunch of noise out front one afternoon. Looking down the street I saw a car beside the road and an adult couple arguing next to the car. Maybe 2 hours later a tow truck came and hauled off the car and I thought that was the end of it until I spotted a couple large trash bags and some loose trash laying in the grass. '

I rounded it all up, found the address on some old mail in the trash, and put it all in a big box. I then spent about $30.00 to mail it to them with a nice note...money well spent as it sure made me feel better!

DAJA
04-22-2009, 08:30
Over-consumption is a more serious problem than littering and disposal. In many respects, by getting better at not littering and by poluting, we have paved the way to make the problem worse by over-comsuming more. Not to say that littering and poluting is the answer. Just food for thought.

Agreed, over-consumption is the main culprit, but I’ll put a slightly different twist on it. Over-consumption is the cause of littering... We consume so much in the run of a day that is over packaged, we simply run out of convenient places to stash the trash so to speak, so for those less ambitious in our community, they simply fling it where ever they may be at the time finding themselves holding a snickers rapper..

As long as our plan into the future is to put profit above all else including people and nature, these problems will not be addressed... Future generations are going to pay the price of our selfishness and ignorance dearly. But hey keep your chin up, surely the economy will find an upswing any day now!

JAK
04-23-2009, 04:51
Yeah the two go hand in hand. Priceless story about the couple at Fundy btw.
See you on the trails maybe. Do you canoe/kayak also, being right on the St.Croix?

DAJA
04-23-2009, 08:38
Yeah, in fact back in my university days I spent a summer working for the St. Croix Waterway Commission, with a mandate to canoe the river everyday from Vanceboro to Loon Bay cleaning up and removing trash from the campsites on both the Canadian and US sides... Best job I ever had.

I spend a lot of time canoeing the St. Croix, Digdeguash, Macadavic and I often kayak in and around the Passamaquaddy Islands...

Fiddleback
04-23-2009, 10:49
I think its worth mentioning that Bryson wasn't the one who actually littered in A Walk in The Woods. He reported Katz doing it, and obviously thought he was an idiot for doing so.

Bryson has done an awful lot to stop the proliferation of litter in the countryside, see the following for further info:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6614295.stm

It's beem a few years since I read the book...thanks for the slap to my memory (I remembered it was Katz's action, I didn't remember Bryson's disapproval). I've always wondered if Katz was real or a literay device.

It's nice to see Bryson fighting the good fight. I got to live two years in the English countryside and it was, for the most part, very clean and well kept by the residents. But that was in the early 90's...

FB

Rockhound
04-23-2009, 13:28
I would say the majority of trash in the Smokies is a result of spring breakers and weekenders who go out ill prepared and over packed. Ultralighters would have great difficulty leaving 20 pounds of trash at a shelter when they don't carry that much to begin with. 1st time thru hikers surely contribute but by GSMNP even they have learned to lighten their load. (not by littering) I'm curious to what twisted logic the starter of this thread used to place the blame on ultralighters.

kanga
04-23-2009, 13:36
i would say that ALL of the trash left on the trail is from LAZY ASS PEOPLE

JAK
04-23-2009, 13:37
Yeah, in fact back in my university days I spent a summer working for the St. Croix Waterway Commission, with a mandate to canoe the river everyday from Vanceboro to Loon Bay cleaning up and removing trash from the campsites on both the Canadian and US sides... Best job I ever had.

I spend a lot of time canoeing the St. Croix, Digdeguash, Macadavic and I often kayak in and around the Passamaquaddy Islands...Cool.
We have a camp on Magaguadavic Lake and I've been meaning to paddle the river some day and think about that when I drive through St.George. We always pronounced it more Macadavie than Macadavic. Is that still the case?

DAJA
04-23-2009, 13:51
Cool.
We have a camp on Magaguadavic Lake and I've been meaning to paddle the river some day and think about that when I drive through St.George. We always pronounced it more Macadavie than Macadavic. Is that still the case?

Your a lucky man to have a camp Magaguadavic Lake, that is one of my favorite area's in Southern, NB.. So Magaguadavic is the proper spelling? I hear people pronounce it both ways, depending on who you talk to and whether thier family background is from the ridges or the towns..

I'd recommend running the river before the end of June, after that it gets very shallow and you spend more time dragging your canoe/kayak over the sandbars than paddling... But then again, the sandbars are nice for stopping for breaks and getting some sun... If you keep going past the green steel bridge, the next good takeout point would be Scum lodge... Lloyd the owner is very friendly and enjoys meeting folks paddling by..

Calling for temps in the 80s this weekend, so I think I'll be taking my first overnight paddle trip of the season this weekend...

Chaco Taco
04-26-2009, 21:01
So we went on a bit of a "greatest hits" of NC and TN the past few days. I must say, the trash issue is really bad right now. Wrappers everywhere, fire pits full of Mtn House pack residue and toilet paper all over. We packed out a good deal of trash from Beauty Spot. Its amazing, 2 people were picking up trash while 15 hikers sat and watched. They figure, "eh let him do it".

Wise Old Owl
04-26-2009, 22:05
If you read it right, it is the me me me under 30 generation. Last year at Tri-Corner I chased down several 20ish SOBers that spent the night there (said they were headed for GA) and gave them back their 4 empty fuel cans that they left behind. No, it wasn't meant to be offensive to ULers. Just all around irresponsible hikers. Sorry if you took it that way. I have fellow hikers who are ULers, but they are responsible with leave no trace.

I can understand how you feel that way , but even the generation before us was guilty of this as it ended up as a foot print in Earl Shaffer's first book. It's not the young, or the UL's, it's EVERYBODY. This affects all of us and people that haven't hiked the trail yet. Please don't forget the piles of empty food cans from the past shelters of the 40's, 50's 60's ...

Chaco Taco
04-27-2009, 09:19
:rolleyes:Lazy a** hikers:rolleyes:

Ickuss
04-27-2009, 11:45
So we went on a bit of a "greatest hits" of NC and TN the past few days. I must say, the trash issue is really bad right now. Wrappers everywhere, fire pits full of Mtn House pack residue and toilet paper all over. We packed out a good deal of trash from Beauty Spot. Its amazing, 2 people were picking up trash while 15 hikers sat and watched. They figure, "eh let him do it".
This say's it all. What a shame.

Phoenixdadeadhead
04-27-2009, 12:29
Truth is we all know who is leaving trash. It isn't everyday hikers, because I am pretty sure most everyday hikers don't carry a gallon of coleman fuel (yes I found that) or quart sized propane bottles (yep found that too). We don't carry in glass, nor do we carry in tin cans (unless you made your stove out of 1 lol). A lot (I would say most) don't even carry in prepackaged food (unless it is a long through hike), we make our own and package it ourself. There is no trash, when your food is in ziplock bags, that aren't empty till the hike is over. I will say i have seen a lot of those stupid butane bottles (which is the biggest reason I built an alcohol stove instead). All in all it is the responsibility of people like us to lead by example, when you see trash pick it up (even if it is in a firepit), when you get to a shelter talk to others about what they do and how they handle their trash (who knows they might know something you don't). People will always litter, but hopefully people like us will lead, teach, and clean up the others.

earlyriser26
04-27-2009, 13:32
Just hiked about 26 miles into Pearsiburg VA, NOBO and there was a ton of trash. Most of it was plastic soda bottles, beer bottles, and cans. I suspect about 99% came from locals and day hikers. Any good UL hiker knows to carry his beer in cans and avoid those heavy bottles.

Chaco Taco
04-27-2009, 21:43
Here in the south, its a combination of everyone. You have new hikers thruhiking that dont get that Leave No Trace means not leaving anything. Also its the locals that come out and party and leave their trash, then the day hikers that just dont get it either. ITS ALL OF US!!! The thing is to stop placing blame and do your part. When on the trail, pack out whatever trash you find and tell people that they have to pack out their trash and that you do not burn trash!!!!

DAJA
04-27-2009, 22:26
Here in the south, its a combination of everyone. You have new hikers thruhiking that dont get that Leave No Trace means not leaving anything. Also its the locals that come out and party and leave their trash, then the day hikers that just dont get it either. ITS ALL OF US!!! The thing is to stop placing blame and do your part. When on the trail, pack out whatever trash you find and tell people that they have to pack out their trash and that you do not burn trash!!!!

I witnessed a beautiful thing this past weekend... While atving,I happened upon a young father and his 6yr old son enjoying a trail lunch on their atv.

I pulled up to say hello and chit chat... As the conversation went on, the young fella grew bored and walked off to look at a nearby beaver dam and lodge... Both the father and I where watching him as we talked, when I see the boy toss his drink box into the beaver pond...

I (half jokingly) say, "hey youngfella, your gonna want to pick that up before a Ranger comes and puts you and your dad in jail for littering."

The little at first grins but then gets shocked when his father in a sharp tone says, "Pick it up! Remember what I taught you about littering!"

Without missing a beat the boys responds with, "You do it all the time dad, you threw out a pop can on our way to the trail this morning..."

The father sheepishly and awkwardly shuffled over and plucked up the juice box and stuffed it in the rear box of his bike...

Those are the teaching moments that both dad and son will remember...

Downhill Trucker
04-28-2009, 16:47
Just hiked about 26 miles into Pearsiburg VA, NOBO and there was a ton of trash. Most of it was plastic soda bottles, beer bottles, and cans. I suspect about 99% came from locals and day hikers. Any good UL hiker knows to carry his beer in cans and avoid those heavy bottles.

We the ultralighters don't drink beer. Grain alcohol is what we use... it also powers our stoves.;)

Downhill Trucker
04-28-2009, 16:48
Here in the south, its a combination of everyone. You have new hikers thruhiking that dont get that Leave No Trace means not leaving anything. Also its the locals that come out and party and leave their trash, then the day hikers that just dont get it either. ITS ALL OF US!!! The thing is to stop placing blame and do your part. When on the trail, pack out whatever trash you find and tell people that they have to pack out their trash and that you do not burn trash!!!!

Yes, Yes, YES!