View Full Version : Tick question
Lemming Fleming
04-20-2009, 04:36
Hi, I am becoming very aware of the ammount of ticks I'm going to encounter on my trip in SNP. I was wondering what tips or advice you could give me.
Is there a way of preventing tick attacks? Food / sprays? I know vitamin B is meant to keep mosquitos at bay, would that work with ticks?
What's the best way of checking bits of your body that you cant see?
And whats the best way of dealing with the little blighters when they've attached themselves to you?
Thanks.
I spray my gear with some permethian. Some don't like to use chemicals but it's safe enough for it's purpose (not skin) Ticks are inevitable though
Berserker
04-20-2009, 12:29
Treat your shoes and gaiters (if you wear gaiters) with permethrin. You could do your socks too if you want. The vast majority of those little buttholes are on foilage down near the ground, and this will keep most of them off. You can also wear DEET, but I personally don't cause it irritates my skin. It does seem to work well though.
To check parts of your body you can't see you either need a friend to check (in my case that would be my wife), or a mirror.
As for getting them off once attached, you need to grab it as close to the attachment point as possible with tweezers and pull it off making sure to get the head and other parts. If you grab it too far back on its body you risk breaking its head off and leaving part of it stuck in your skin.
As the other poster said they are inevitable, and just staying on top of checking for them is the best prevention method.
humunuku
04-20-2009, 12:35
I believe that they must be sucking on you for like 48 hrs before they transmit any diseases, so if miss one during a check, you may find it next check and still be ok
rockdawg69
04-20-2009, 13:15
Look very closely as the tick that transmits the Lyme is generally in the nymph stage and extremely small, about the size of a very tiny freckle and light brown to tan.
dont laugh.... flea and tic collars on my ankles during the peak season
Blissful
04-20-2009, 16:08
SNP is getting very bad with ticks already. Be vigilant.
ChinMusic
04-20-2009, 16:18
I'm headed to the Smokies for a week, next week, and treated my clothes with Permethrin (soaking method) just last night.
dont laugh.... flea and tic collars on my ankles during the peak season
I'm sorry but I had to chuckle at this one. I caught lyme last year in the SNP. Does this cause any skin irritation.
i get black ones and put them over my gaiters...but never bothered my skin
i get black ones and put them over my gaiters...but never bothered my skin
put them over gaiters, good idea!
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/lymedisease.html
Read the information linked above to learn how it's transmitted, how to recognize its symptoms and act promptly should you observe them.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/lymedisease.html
Read the information linked above to learn how it's transmitted, how to recognize its symptoms and act promptly should you observe them.
I didn't read your link, but been their done that . Got lyme last year, knew I had it but the doctor misdiagnosed and the test showed negative. I feel like I am an expert on the subject now. I went through quite the ordeal, but have since been treated and I am okay. I think the key is to make sure your physician or heath care professional is up to date on the info. I had a Physicians asst. who was not updated.
I feel like I am an expert on the subject now.:-?
Maybe more informed than many.
How did you know you had Lyme Diesase when your test results were negative?
How did it come to pass that your suspicions were confirmed and you were treated?
Had you known then what you do now, might you have been more persistant or seen another physician for a second test several weeks later?
bigcranky
04-20-2009, 19:28
:-?
How did you know you had Lyme Diesase when your test results were negative?
How did it come to pass that your suspicions were confirmed and you were treated?
Had you known then what you do now, might you have been more persistant or seen another physician for a second test several weeks later?
I'm not tenbeer, but I can answer that.
I got very sick a week or so after sectioning Shenandoah in 2005. Very sick -- incredible fatigue, fever of 104-105, chills, etc. This happened in the late afternoon, with the fever spiking over and over again. My doctor said there was no way it was Lyme disease (even with the risk factor of exposure to ticks), but he gave me the simple ELISA test and it came back negative.
That weekend I ended up in the E.R. with worse symptoms. The ER doc did a complete workup and said it was likely Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, which is common here in NC. However, he did say that it could by Lyme, and the treatment for both is the same -- 2 weeks of doxycyclene.
When I got home from the ER I saw a circular red rash on the back of my knee. Good timing, that.
Went back to my doc, who still said it couldn't be Lyme, the rash was wrong, etc., etc. But he sent me to an infectious disease specialist anyway. That doc took a blood sample 5 weeks later and sent it for a PCR test, which came back positive. Since I had already been treated, that was more for information, but it did make me feel better.
So for me, it was the incapacitating fatigue (I seriously couldn't pick up my camera bag) coupled with the fever and the rash. I *had* to get them to do something about it.
There are all kinds of problems with the tests. See this page (http://www.canlyme.com/labtests.html) for example (though who knows, it might be misleading too.)
I'm not tenbeer, but I can answer that.
Thank you for your answer. I'm hopeful tenbeer will reply too and anyone else who has something to contribute. I ask not just for my own information, but for others who might be spared the experience you endured.
:-?
Maybe more informed than many.
How did you know you had Lyme Diesase when your test results were negative?
How did it come to pass that your suspicions were confirmed and you were treated?
Had you known then what you do now, might you have been more persistant or seen another physician for a second test several weeks later?
I had been in the SNP and met a hiker that had contracted lyme on a thru hike the year before. He had to abort his hike in Pa. I had all the classic symptoms except for the bullseye rash. Fever and flu like symptoms, as well as a rash on most of my body. My rash was more of a tiger type rash. I had red swirls all over my torso and legs. After my first visit my Mom encouraged me to seek additional care from her physician. After he saw the rash and heard my complaints he immediately prescribed an anti biotic. The second test confirmed my suspicions and showed that I had lyme. The long term effects of lyme can be devastating, mostly it causes damage to the central nervous system, which can include blindness, loss of balance, and loss of physical strength. (no more hiking). As I've said before, be diligent when you think you have lyme. The antibiotic that you take is a childrens medication that you take for a 4 to 6 week period. Good Hiking!
stranger
04-21-2009, 22:22
Most hikers who get lyme never see the tick that bit them, so checking your body certainly has it's limitations (think scalp, groin, anyplace you can't see). As suggested earlier in this thread Permethrin is very effective against ticks, but keep in mind that Permethrin won't do anything in terms of exposed skin, permethrin on your shorts won't repel a tick on your knee, I would take my chances with Deet over Lyme anyday after watching my father test negative 4 times for Lyme before being diagnosed from symptoms.
Learn the symptoms and be aware, that's your best defense.
Ticks are so bad this year. Here was my experience last evening. Worrking out of town I overnighted at a state park in the fishing resort. It is the only "hotel" in the area for work purposes and it it great with wonderful surroundings. I had a long day indoors and took a nice long evening hike around the campgrounds and park road after I checked in. Got back and at ten pm found a tick very attached to that part of my back I could not reach. Everyone has that place right? I was alone and try as I might I could not get that sucker out with tweezers.I did not have the reach and was going to end up leaving the head in. Panic set in. I had Erichliosis two years ago. I knew when I finally got home it would have been in there forever and it was already itching and it was a large deer tick. I finally had to suck it up and ask for help at the front desk. My good luck the clerk, Rita, female was a retired nurse. It it had been some young kid, I don't know what I would have done. Laugh with me, not at me now.
Deer ticks often bury themselves so completely in your skin that you can't see them until they start to bloat.
My friend's son had one buried like that in his crotch. He didn't get Lyme disease.
I have to wonder why so many physicians are hesitant to treat Lyme. I was treated back in the 1990s with doxycycline even though the titer came back negative. My doctor had the "better safe than sorry" way of looking at it.
What has changed?
Is doxycycline not as harmless as they thought it was when I was treated?
Btw: I have treated my clothing with permethrin and my skin with deet and use mesh bug clothing in hot weather for the last 5 years and have not seen a tick on me nor had any symptoms.
Lemming Fleming
04-22-2009, 06:35
Hi all, thanks for the replies. What and how readily available is permethrin and deet? I'm from the uk so will have to buy some when I reach the states.
Spence
Desert Reprobate
04-22-2009, 07:10
Walmart and Home Depot both carry it. You can order it from Campmor. Lots of places.
Lemming Fleming
04-22-2009, 10:02
dont laugh.... flea and tic collars on my ankles during the peak season
I have to say, this seems like a small stroke of genius ... I'm on it :)
ChinMusic
04-22-2009, 13:23
Hi all, thanks for the replies. What and how readily available is permethrin and deet? I'm from the uk so will have to buy some when I reach the states.
Spence
Sawyer makes great products. If I were doing a thru or hiking in peak-tick season I would go with this product: http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/links/link.jsp?id=0031692516902a&type=product&cmCat=SEARCH_all&returnPage=search-results1.jsp&Ntk=Product_liberal&QueryText=sawyer&sort=all&Go.y=12&_D%3AhasJS=+&N=0&Nty=1&hasJS=true&Go.x=17&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fsearch%2Fsearch-box.jsp.form23&_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1
http://images.cabelas.com/is/image/cabelas/s7_516902_269_01?$main-Large$
The soaking method takes care of a whole set of clothing, while, with the spray, you could miss a spot. I use the spray on tent opening and floor and to reapply to shoes.
It is reported to last over a month but I would retreat sooner than that, prob 1 month, due to the rigors of the trail on a thru.
Snowleopard
04-22-2009, 17:57
Don't use dog flea and tick collars. Members of the US military used to do this, but the military now strongly recommends against it. Human skin is different from dogs and cats; these collars are not approved for human use. The military now uses permethrin on clothes and Ultrathon (DEET) on exposed skin. Ultrathon is DEET in some kind of suspension so that it protects longer than plain DEET (stays on the skin longer); there are other brands that do this now.
In US, REI, Campmor, probably walmart.
Permethrin in UK:
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Nomad-Bugproof-Clothing-Treatment-Permethrin/dp/B000R2DQFW
Ultrathon in UK:
http://www.safariquip.co.uk/i_insect_repellent_information.html
I was lucky I had a good urgent care person. I had never been to urgent care or an ER in my life and had all the classic symptoms of tick disease but thought it was the flu. I had never had the flu and this was in July. Very high fever, fatigue, headache, chills, joint pain. No rash. They put me on the meds immediately which did the trick. It took weeks for the tick test which was inconclusive but the liver enzymes were elevated which is also a sign of Ehrichicosis. Missouri had alot of Ehrich. cases that year and I was lucky the nurse practioner at urgent care, on a Saturday night of course, knew what she was doing. I had forgotten I had embedded ticks in Tennessee until she asked me about ticks.
I had about 40 ticks on me during my Year 2000 AT northbound thru-hike. The first one I saw was on my just after I crossed into North Carolina. As I remember, New Jersey and Pennsylvania are the states where I saw the most ticks on me -- the grasses were tall (head-height or higher there). I'd planned to check myself for ticks every day (had previous massive tick encounters on a few other hikes so I was aware) but didn't really get around to it but maybe once a week. I'd see what I thought was most of the ticks while I was hiking and brush them off. Occasionally I'd have a biting tick that had gotten hold on my skin.
I used Ben's 100 Deet liberally on my thru-hike and I still had Deet with me in the middle of a blizzard in the 100 Mile Wilderness of Maine.
Datto
Kerosene
04-26-2009, 12:50
I have to wonder why so many physicians are hesitant to treat Lyme. I was treated back in the 1990s with doxycycline even though the titer came back negative. My doctor had the "better safe than sorry" way of looking at it.
What has changed?All I can figure is that the medical community is much more sensitive to prescribing antibiotics given the continuing increase in resistant bacteria. If you believe that you're at risk, then I'd ask for the antibiotic, and try to provide the doctor with an assurance that you will complete the full regimen (and then do so!).
double j
04-26-2009, 15:31
I'm headed to the Smokies for a week, next week, and treated my clothes with Permethrin (soaking method) just last night.
ill be there the 2 weekend in may. whats the permethrin. and where do u buy it
Blissful
04-26-2009, 16:06
ill be there the 2 weekend in may. whats the permethrin. and where do u buy it
Campmor sells it. Look online.
take-a-knee
04-26-2009, 16:15
All I can figure is that the medical community is much more sensitive to prescribing antibiotics given the continuing increase in resistant bacteria. If you believe that you're at risk, then I'd ask for the antibiotic, and try to provide the doctor with an assurance that you will complete the full regimen (and then do so!).
Simply not true, MD's an nurses are against you taking an antibiotic on your own because there is no $75-$150 office visit involved. As evidence MD never give a rat's a$$ when Nurse Practioners and PA's take care of "urban outdoorsmen" and reservation indians, 'cause they don't pay for the care.
Anyway, the "full regimen" for a tick removed within 24hrs is one 200mg tablet/capsule, that's it, no more needed. The resistance arguement falls on it's face because doxycycline is a hardly used drug these days.
Jayboflavin04
04-27-2009, 07:16
Well the ticks are out in ohio, found 4 on me yesterday. We were mushroom hunting and doing alot of bushwacking. I always find ticks on me I must taste good. I do want to try the flea and tick collars. That sounds like a good idea. Maybe get a few of those "live strong" rubber bracelets and treat them with the 100% deet. That way I dont have to put it directly on my clothing.
Downhill Trucker
04-28-2009, 17:14
I'm not tenbeer, but I can answer that.
I got very sick a week or so after sectioning Shenandoah in 2005. Very sick -- incredible fatigue, fever of 104-105, chills, etc. This happened in the late afternoon, with the fever spiking over and over again. My doctor said there was no way it was Lyme disease (even with the risk factor of exposure to ticks), but he gave me the simple ELISA test and it came back negative.
That weekend I ended up in the E.R. with worse symptoms. The ER doc did a complete workup and said it was likely Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever, which is common here in NC. However, he did say that it could by Lyme, and the treatment for both is the same -- 2 weeks of doxycyclene.
When I got home from the ER I saw a circular red rash on the back of my knee. Good timing, that.
Went back to my doc, who still said it couldn't be Lyme, the rash was wrong, etc., etc. But he sent me to an infectious disease specialist anyway. That doc took a blood sample 5 weeks later and sent it for a PCR test, which came back positive. Since I had already been treated, that was more for information, but it did make me feel better.
So for me, it was the incapacitating fatigue (I seriously couldn't pick up my camera bag) coupled with the fever and the rash. I *had* to get them to do something about it.
There are all kinds of problems with the tests. See this page (http://www.canlyme.com/labtests.html) for example (though who knows, it might be misleading too.)
I was misdiagnosed as well. Took me weeks to get someone to treat me. After scores of visits to specialists and countless tests and treatments I can tell you that Lyme is a strange disease.
The fatigue is no exaggeration. That same fatigue got me off the trail on my section hike. When I finally found the rash it was right in the center of my ass, where I would have NEVER found a tick on a month long solo hike.
In regards to the thread topic, I have no good advice. I heard the prymetherin works. Could you use it on a tent and or hammock as well? Where is the best place to get it? I saw it at Kmart and it was like 20 bucks.
Deer ticks often bury themselves so completely in your skin that you can't see them until they start to bloat.
My friend's son had one buried like that in his crotch. He didn't get Lyme disease.
I have to wonder why so many physicians are hesitant to treat Lyme. I was treated back in the 1990s with doxycycline even though the titer came back negative. My doctor had the "better safe than sorry" way of looking at it.
What has changed?
Is doxycycline not as harmless as they thought it was when I was treated?
Btw: I have treated my clothing with permethrin and my skin with deet and use mesh bug clothing in hot weather for the last 5 years and have not seen a tick on me nor had any symptoms.
I don't know if you're a man or a woman but if you're a woman who is on birth control they will be resistant to unnecessarily prescribe antibiotics because they negate the effects of the birth control pills.
take-a-knee
04-28-2009, 22:57
I don't know if you're a man or a woman but if you're a woman who is on birth control they will be resistant to unnecessarily prescribe antibiotics because they negate the effects of the birth control pills.
So what, you read 'em the riot act when you prescribe it. "If you don't want to get knocked up....". It is only for a week or two, it'll be good training for when they get married.:D
I noticed Permethrin is toxic to cats. Does that mean that because I have a cat I can't treat my hiking clothes with it? Or can I, just I have to make sure she doesn't come in contact with it while it's wet?