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everyman
04-21-2009, 13:04
Can someone provide some insight into some practical issues having to do with sleeping in shelters? First off - I am guessing that sleeping bags would be positioned perpendicular to the shelter opening with head against back wall and feet towards opening on shelter. Is that the case? Also if there is driving rain which is coming into outer edge of shelter floor, does everyone usually have some tarp with them to keep feet end of bags from getting drenched?

Lone Wolf
04-21-2009, 13:07
been years since i slept in a shelter but i slept with my head near the opening. mice won't run over your head then. don't ruin a nice day of walking by sleeping in a dirty wooden box with 10 others. makes no sense

Boudin
04-21-2009, 13:09
If you must stay in a shelter, I agree, head out.

Chaco Taco
04-21-2009, 13:15
Can someone provide some insight into some practical issues having to do with sleeping in shelters? First off - I am guessing that sleeping bags would be positioned perpendicular to the shelter opening with head against back wall and feet towards opening on shelter. Is that the case? Also if there is driving rain which is coming into outer edge of shelter floor, does everyone usually have some tarp with them to keep feet end of bags from getting drenched?

Some shelters have the tarps up. In the Smokies they have the tarp up in most. Some are inclosed shelters. Most of the time, you dont have to worry about the rain because of the awning over the shelter
I agree with the others, dont wake up with holes in your pack and food bag. Shelters are breeding ground for filth.

Worldwide
04-21-2009, 13:25
If forced into sleeping in a shelter I would suggest sleeping on the top shelf if applicable. Less likely to get a Nalgene spilled on you in the middle of the night. Yes I have seen it happen.

Don't sleep in the same direction as the people next to you. Choose someones stank a$$ feet versus their germ filled pie hole to lessen likelihood of getting whatever illnesses they may have.

earlyriser26
04-21-2009, 13:25
I agree with LW, but having spent the first half of the 35 years I have been hiking in shelters there are a few things to know. 1) All shelters have mice. Hang your pack and put up with them. 2) I've seen head out and head in positions in shelter. I have no preference. head in more mice/ head out rain issues. 3)be clean, this goes for food and washing being away from shelter 4) learn to be a tolerant person (you will need it) people arrive late/leave early/snore or worse. I love shelters for breaks and for that rare emergency. Otherwise, find a nice camp site.

Chaco Taco
04-21-2009, 13:29
If forced into sleeping in a shelter I would suggest sleeping on the top shelf if applicable. Less likely to get a Nalgene spilled on you in the middle of the night. Yes I have seen it happen.

Don't sleep in the same direction as the people next to you. Choose someones stank a$$ feet versus their germ filled pie hole to lessen likelihood of getting whatever illnesses they may have.

Another justification, shelters suck

Engine
04-21-2009, 14:13
...don't ruin a nice day of walking by sleeping in a dirty wooden box with 10 others...

That may be the best piece of advice ever given on WB! :)

Skyline
04-21-2009, 14:30
Shelters serve one good purpose when I'm hiking.

If you've tented near a shelter and if it's raining in the AM, they provide a place to more conveniently pack up in the morning. Not a necessity, but a welcome reprieve from rain.

Other than that, I'm tenting 99% of the time. Rain or not.

Bootstrap
04-21-2009, 14:35
If forced into sleeping in a shelter I would suggest sleeping on the top shelf if applicable. Less likely to get a Nalgene spilled on you in the middle of the night. Yes I have seen it happen.

Er ... what was in that Nalgene?

everyman
04-21-2009, 14:38
Overwhelming feedback is NOT to sleep in shelters. I find this interesting because I am following TrailJournal entries for 2009 and it reads like the majority have been using shelters. Maybe this is because they are mostly newbies who don't have the knowledge/experience that you folks so far have brought on this issue or maybe it is due to difficulties this early on in the hike down in GA/NC/TN where they are dealing with snow/lots of rain.

The Weasel
04-21-2009, 14:45
1) Head in means not getting your face stepped on in the night.
2) Hang packs always, with all zippers part open (minimizes rodents eating through pack fabric to get inside
3) Try to get a wall. Mousier but better space
4) Cover bottom of sleeping bag with rain cover at night if it is wet
5) Use earplugs
6) Keep boots/shoes next to you
7) Hang food away from shelter

TW

earlyriser26
04-21-2009, 14:50
Good point weasel. Open those zippers. I learned this after a mouse ate his way in and did not have sense enough to use this perfectly good hole to exit. he ate another one...

Tin Man
04-21-2009, 15:10
1) Head in means not getting your face stepped on in the night.
2) Hang packs always, with all zippers part open (minimizes rodents eating through pack fabric to get inside
3) Try to get a wall. Mousier but better space
4) Cover bottom of sleeping bag with rain cover at night if it is wet
5) Use earplugs
6) Keep boots/shoes next to you
7) Hang food away from shelter

TW

8) setup tent/hammock/tarp/bivy. don't worry about steps 1-7

flemdawg1
04-21-2009, 15:12
Overwhelming feedback is NOT to sleep in shelters. I find this interesting because I am following TrailJournal entries for 2009 and it reads like the majority have been using shelters. Maybe this is because they are mostly newbies who don't have the knowledge/experience that you folks so far have brought on this issue or maybe it is due to difficulties this early on in the hike down in GA/NC/TN where they are dealing with snow/lots of rain.

I would think its just a very vocal minority. But all the reasons against are nonetheless true. I sleep in shelters, but I also carry a 5x8 tarp and a tyvek groundcloth, both for an alternate shelter or to go over and/or beneath my sleeping pad/bag. I normally sleep head in, slightly warmer, less breeze.

If my wife is with me, then I tent. ;)

Engine
04-21-2009, 15:16
I can handle the mice, but being a very light sleeper all of the noise leaves me feeling like I never slept in the morning.

max patch
04-21-2009, 15:19
I would think its just a very vocal minority.
Agree. Been my observatioms that despite this thread, most hikers use the shelters, and most of those have their head against the back wall. I tent unless I'm the only one there.

OldStormcrow
04-21-2009, 15:26
If you just want to spare yourself the extra weight of a tent or tarp, the go for the shelter. Unfortunately, you will probably have to share it with someone like me who stays up too late drinking Irish whiskey and sharing a bunch of "no *****, there I was" tales with whatever unfortunate soul is still up to listen to them and then proceeding to snore all the rest of the night like a Longshoreman.

Plodderman
04-21-2009, 15:33
I sleep in shelters quite a bit. Head pointed towards the open end of the shelter, hang my pack on a rope with a tuna can upside down about 18 inches from my pack. Usually hang food outside in a tree in a water proof bag.

I have a pad that I sleep on with my sleeeping bag and have never used any thing to keep dry while in the shelter as the overhang is enough to keep me from getting wet.

Do not mind mice but sometimes the company can be a litttle strange and on occaision I have run into groups of people coming in from a road to spend the night. That can be a blessing and a curse as it can improve food selection but also they tend to be loud.

I do a lot of hiking in the Smokies and staying in shelters is required.

Blissful
04-21-2009, 18:49
I always slept with my head in. Never had mice in my head and never heard them either with ear plugs.

Engine
04-21-2009, 19:32
We were staying at the Mt. Collins shelter one particularly mouse infested night when my 10 year old daughter loudly exclaimed "it bit me". A mouse had actually bit her on the hand, hard enough to draw blood. Do you think I ever got her into a shelter again after that?

mateozzz
04-21-2009, 20:06
I think it is kind of hard to get an unbiased sampling via a forum, but the opinions are interesting! I have hiked VT, MA, NY, CT sections and mostly slept in shelters, never had a problem with mice, just one stone shelter many years ago. Never had a problem with people, in most cases, I'm glad to see some people show up if they are friendly and want to chat.

Of course, now temper that with your time frame. If you are in the shelter on a holiday weekend, or when 400 thru hikers are coming thru that section, it might get on your nerves to have all these people around (the smell...nuff said). Also, weekends around road crossing bring out locals with alcohol, which increases the odds of conflict.

And for mice, think about it, if a shelter isn't used much or not recently, there probably aren't going to be that many mice left. With no food source, they probably thin out real quick due to snakes and other predators or just moving on. But if it is a busy part of the season, they'll breed exponentionally if there is food and I think that's the basis for a lot of the mouse stories.

Ox97GaMe
04-21-2009, 22:48
Almost all thru hikers start out going from shelter to shelter. There is a sense of security with being in a building (more like home) when in the woods. If you read previous years entries 4,5, or 6 months into their hike, you will find that a lot of those hikers are opting for tenting vs. sleeping in a shelter.

As was stated above, you may not get much sleep in a shelter. In a shelter of 12-16people, you are likely to have at least two of the following type of people in the shelter with you.
a) Joe who hikes until dark, then wakes up everybody while he tries to set up in the shelter and cook dinner.
b) John who wants to be on the trail at the crack of dawn, and is banging his pots, pans, and other gear 30 minutes before sunrise.
c) Jim who has to go to the bathroom 3 or 4 times during the night
d) Jake who sits up until midnight reading the shelter log and writing in his journal
e) Jane who is paranoid of mice and flashes her headlamp around the shelter every time she hears a noise.
f) Sam the chronic snorer. Sometimes loud enough to keep everyone within a quarter mile radius awake all night.
g) Mickey the mouse, who is scurrying around all night trying to store away food supplies for the winter.
h) Fido the 4 legged hiker, who moves around every time Joe, Jim, John, Jake, or Jane make any noise or movement, occassionally barks at the creatures walking around in the woods, and has been known to do laps around the shelter chasing Mickey.

There is also the fact that the wood floors are pretty hard and not very giving. A lot of hikers wake up stiff and sore. The ground is usually much softer to sleep on.

Most of the shelters (almost all new/renovated ones in last 5 years) have overhangs or tarps to help keep the rain out. This doesnt mean that rain never gets to the sleeping deck, but it is becoming less of a problem each year.

Chaco Taco
04-22-2009, 09:25
1) Head in means not getting your face stepped on in the night.
2) Hang packs always, with all zippers part open (minimizes rodents eating through pack fabric to get inside
3) Try to get a wall. Mousier but better space
4) Cover bottom of sleeping bag with rain cover at night if it is wet
5) Use earplugs
6) Keep boots/shoes next to you
7) Hang food away from shelter

TW

Weasel makes a great point here with earplugs. Some of the time you are going to have hikers that go to sleep super early. Sometimes you want to stay up later than them, or you arrive later, or you are cooking dinner. If you are going to stay in a shelter, bring your own earplugs!!!! Dont get upset when other people are awake and you didnt bring earplugs. I ahve seen it too many times where arguments insue over people staying up past dark around the fire, and hikers yelling out for people to "shut up" Another reasoin why shelters suck:cool:

astrogirl
04-22-2009, 09:47
As was stated above, you may not get much sleep in a shelter. In a shelter of 12-16people, you are likely to have at least two of the following type of people in the shelter with you.
a) Joe who hikes until dark, then wakes up everybody while he tries to set up in the shelter and cook dinner.
b) John who wants to be on the trail at the crack of dawn, and is banging his pots, pans, and other gear 30 minutes before sunrise.
c) Jim who has to go to the bathroom 3 or 4 times during the night
d) Jake who sits up until midnight reading the shelter log and writing in his journal
e) Jane who is paranoid of mice and flashes her headlamp around the shelter every time she hears a noise.
f) Sam the chronic snorer. Sometimes loud enough to keep everyone within a quarter mile radius awake all night.
g) Mickey the mouse, who is scurrying around all night trying to store away food supplies for the winter.
h) Fido the 4 legged hiker, who moves around every time Joe, Jim, John, Jake, or Jane make any noise or movement, occassionally barks at the creatures walking around in the woods, and has been known to do laps around the shelter chasing Mickey.



Good list - that pretty much sums up the issue - but you forgot about the weekenders and boy scouts. :D

Pringles
04-22-2009, 11:31
When sleeping in a shelter, I always used to sleep with my head out, because I figured the mice would be scampering around the inside walls. I was at the Overmountain Shelter one night, and I heard someone making some noise, and I looked over, and the individual, who was sleeping with his head near the inside of the shelter moved his head just a little, and could look out and see the view of the valley in the moonlight. To do the same, I had to twist way around. Since then, if there's anything at all to see, I sleep with my head toward the back of the shelter so I can see the view. That's why I also like the tents with the bigger side openings... if you leave the vestibule open, you can look out in the night and see the stars, the view, etc..

Nearly Normal
04-22-2009, 11:48
Can someone provide some insight into some practical issues having to do with sleeping in shelters? First off - I am guessing that sleeping bags would be positioned perpendicular to the shelter opening with head against back wall and feet towards opening on shelter. Is that the case? Also if there is driving rain which is coming into outer edge of shelter floor, does everyone usually have some tarp with them to keep feet end of bags from getting drenched?

Depends on how many sheltering.
Take your own.

Skyline
04-22-2009, 12:00
Whether to sleep in shelters, or not?

IMHO it has a lot to do with both energy level and skill level. If you get to a shelter dead tired the last thing you may want to do is set up a tent if a space in the shelter beckons. And if you haven't quite mastered life in a tent, in all weather conditions, you may take the path of least resistance and head for the shelter.

Many thru-hikers become mile-slaves so anything that interferes with getting in the max every day is the enemy. That time spent setting up and taking down a tent is time that could be better put to use gaining two more miles to Katahdin (or Springer).

Drawing from personal experience and myriad comments here there are good reasons to not sleep in shelters. Health-wise. Sleep-wise. Avoiding aggravation-wise. But there are other reasons that seem to supercede these, and that's why shelters exist.

Gumbi
04-22-2009, 12:36
Can someone provide some insight into some practical issues having to do with sleeping in shelters?

Yup. Don't do it.

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 12:37
Whether to sleep in shelters, or not?

IMHO it has a lot to do with both energy level and skill level. If you get to a shelter dead tired the last thing you may want to do is set up a tent if a space in the shelter beckons. And if you haven't quite mastered life in a tent, in all weather conditions, you may take the path of least resistance and head for the shelter.

Many thru-hikers become mile-slaves so anything that interferes with getting in the max every day is the enemy. That time spent setting up and taking down a tent is time that could be better put to use gaining two more miles to Katahdin (or Springer).

Drawing from personal experience and myriad comments here there are good reasons to not sleep in shelters. Health-wise. Sleep-wise. Avoiding aggravation-wise. But there are other reasons that seem to supercede these, and that's why shelters exist.

Huh?? If it takes you 40-60 minutes to setup and take down a tent, then maybe you need a different sport. If you can hike all day, setting up and taking down a tent is nothing.

Two Speed
04-22-2009, 12:40
Ayup. Been my experience that "mouse proofing" at night and then retrieving/unwrapping/repacking in the morning takes just about as much time as pitching and striking a tent. As far as I'm concerned any time saved by sleeping in a shelter is marginal, at best.

Gumbi
04-22-2009, 12:44
Also, be sure to bring a tent or some other shelter for when it rains.

Invariably, someone else will come to the already full shelter in the rain and ask you to move out so that he/she can sleep in the shelter because he/she didn't bring a tent or tarp.

If so asked, you should kindly repack your belongings, and set your tent up outside in the rain so that the hardcore, lightweight backpacker can avoid hypothermia.

Engine
04-22-2009, 13:21
Also, be sure to bring a tent or some other shelter for when it rains.

Invariably, someone else will come to the already full shelter in the rain and ask you to move out so that he/she can sleep in the shelter because he/she didn't bring a tent or tarp.

If so asked, you should kindly repack your belongings, and set your tent up outside in the rain so that the hardcore, lightweight backpacker can avoid hypothermia.

A true "Hardcore" lightweight backpacker will be carrying a tent or tarp from SMD or Tarptent that weighs around 1-2 pounds and will likely be found well away from the shelter since they are too busy enjoying the experience to have it spoiled by a loud, filthy, stinky shelter...:D

CowHead
04-22-2009, 13:24
I only stay in the shelter if 1 no one else is there and two it startes to rain/snow/hail

FlyPaper
04-22-2009, 13:29
One other small consideration. Most sleeping platforms in the shelters have a slight downward tilt going toward the opening. It is hard to detect, but I have a special sense for such things (it's my gift). This may be important if you're prone to head congestion or acid reflux.

flemdawg1
04-22-2009, 16:30
But there are other reasons that seem to supercede these, and that's why shelters exist.

I'd say the biggest reasons for staying in a shelter are water sources, privy, picnic tables, bear cables and to be social.

Lone Wolf
04-22-2009, 16:39
I'd say the biggest reasons for staying in a shelter are water sources, privy, picnic tables, bear cables and to be social.

and just plain laziness

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 16:43
flemdawg[/LEFT]1;825769]I'd say the biggest reasons for staying in a shelter are water sources, privy, picnic tables, bear cables and to be social.

you don't need to stay INSIDE the shelter to enjoy these amenities

Skyline
04-22-2009, 16:54
Huh?? If it takes you 40-60 minutes to setup and take down a tent, then maybe you need a different sport. If you can hike all day, setting up and taking down a tent is nothing.


Not saying it takes me that long, but it might take a newbie or someone who hasn't made friends with his or her tent that long or longer. Many in those categories are thru-hikers who become shelter rats early on and never really develop tenting/tarping/hammocking skills.

:-? FWIW, I usually take about 5-7 minutes to put up or take down my single-wall tent. Less if raining. Choosing and/or preparing the site takes more time than putting it up.

Skyline
04-22-2009, 16:56
I'd say the biggest reasons for staying in a shelter are water sources, privy, picnic tables, bear cables and to be social.


Those are valid reasons too. But you can tent within a tenth-mile or more from the shelter and get all those things, too. Best of both worlds.

BobTheBuilder
04-22-2009, 16:57
I completely agree with CowHead.

Sorry, I just wanted to type a sentence once in my life that no one else ever had.

everyman
04-22-2009, 17:02
Thank you all for the feedback - educational and entertaining!!! So for those who have slept in shelters, what (if any) strategies have you seen deployed to keep mice off of the body? Zip up sleeping bag entirely? Wear some mesh thing around the head? Do the mice crawl into the sleeping bags or just crawl over the outside? And lastly in summer time when it is warm at night and you sleep on top of bag is it worse with no protection wrapped around you?

flemdawg1
04-22-2009, 17:07
and just plain laziness

If I was lazy i'd just stay home or drive to an overlook or campground. But I did just walk x miles, I'm kinda tired.


you don't need to stay INSIDE the shelter to enjoy these amenities


Those are valid reasons too. But you can tent within a tenth-mile or more from the shelter and get all those things, too. Best of both worlds.

True but it's there ready to use. Just throw your pad and sleeping bag down, done.

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 17:13
If I was lazy i'd just stay home or drive to an overlook or campground. But I did just walk x miles, I'm kinda tired.

Takes two minutes to setup a tent. Only lazy people can't take the time.



True but it's there ready to use. Just throw your pad and sleeping bag down, done.

It ain't just the people and the mice that make me want to barf. It is knowing you are sleeping on dried barf, piss, mouse turds, rotten food and worse.

flemdawg1
04-22-2009, 17:14
Thank you all for the feedback - educational and entertaining!!! So for those who have slept in shelters, what (if any) strategies have you seen deployed to keep mice off of the body? Zip up sleeping bag entirely? Wear some mesh thing around the head? Do the mice crawl into the sleeping bags or just crawl over the outside? And lastly in summer time when it is warm at night and you sleep on top of bag is it worse with no protection wrapped around you?

The only time I had a mouse touch me was when my butt was against the wall. It crawled over my butt on the outside of my bag. It freaked me out and I screamed.

Mice generally stick close to the walls. They generally just want some food and don't want to bother people (like most animals). The easiest way to avoid them touching you is sleep head out, in the middle, or as others have stated, sleep somewhere else.

Skyline
04-22-2009, 17:18
It's good the shelters are there for those who seem to need them, or maybe just want them. Many trails don't have any shelters at all, while the AT is blessed :eek: with over 200 of them.

But as y'all can read, there are a bunch of folks here—among them a high percentage of more experienced backpackers—who will sleep in one only under drastic conditions if then. The reasons expressed are valid IMHO.

HYOH.

flemdawg1
04-22-2009, 17:19
Takes two minutes to setup a tent. Only lazy people can't take the time.

It ain't just the people and the mice that make me want to barf. It is knowing you are sleeping on dried barf, piss, mouse turds, rotten food and worse.

So do you completely avoid hotels, restaraunts, bars, public transportation, etc. Sanitation is imperfect pretty much everywhere.

ChinMusic
04-22-2009, 17:20
It ain't just the people and the mice that make me want to barf. It is knowing you are sleeping on dried barf, piss, mouse turds, rotten food and worse.
Thanks for the mental image as I head into the Smokies for a section hike next week..........:(

vamelungeon
04-22-2009, 17:22
Shelters on trails are the very opposite of Leave No Trace.
"Let's leave no trace of our being here, but first let's build these huts."
I can't understand WANTING to sleep with vermin.

Skyline
04-22-2009, 17:25
Thank you all for the feedback - educational and entertaining!!! So for those who have slept in shelters, what (if any) strategies have you seen deployed to keep mice off of the body? Zip up sleeping bag entirely? Wear some mesh thing around the head? Do the mice crawl into the sleeping bags or just crawl over the outside? And lastly in summer time when it is warm at night and you sleep on top of bag is it worse with no protection wrapped around you?


Mice will go where mice want to go. They live to torture hikers. :welcome

Are mice your only shelter-related concern? What about snoring, farting, barfing, human- and animal-derived disease, loud unpacking/packing/conversations/cooking/drinking/drug use late at night or early in the morning, or the often filthy conditions?

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 17:34
So do you completely avoid hotels, restaraunts, bars, public transportation, etc. Sanitation is imperfect pretty much everywhere.

i don't lay my head down in any of those places except a hotel pillow with fresh linens AND I always wash my hands before i eat. how about you?

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 17:36
Mice will go where mice want to go. They live to torture hikers. :welcome

Are mice your only shelter-related concern? What about snoring, farting, barfing, human- and animal-derived disease, loud unpacking/packing/conversations/cooking/drinking/drug use late at night or early in the morning, or the often filthy conditions?

there was another shelter thread not so long ago talking about a dude who, not very quietly, whacked his haddock with a shelter full of people :eek:

flemdawg1
04-22-2009, 17:37
Shelters on trails are the very opposite of Leave No Trace.
"Let's leave no trace of our being here, but first let's build these huts."
I can't understand WANTING to sleep with vermin.

Follow my logic for 1 sec. Say you were a city planner for a village of 1000, in Sim-city. If your goal was to keep as much of the area as pristine as possible, would you set all the citizens loose to make a home wherever they felt like? Or would you concentrate them in as small an area as possible, say in a high-rise?

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 17:37
Thanks for the mental image as I head into the Smokies for a section hike next week..........:(

you know how to get around the rules

flemdawg1
04-22-2009, 17:41
i don't lay my head down in any of those places except a hotel pillow with fresh linens AND I always wash my hands before i eat. how about you?

Well my sleeping pad is on a peice of tyvek, my pillow (pocket built into bag) is resting on the relatively clean interior of my sleeping bag. And I always wash my hands too. See, not that big a distinction, is it?

Pootz
04-22-2009, 17:41
Follow my logic for 1 sec. Say you were a city planner for a village of 1000, in Sim-city. If your goal was to keep as much of the area as pristine as possible, would you set all the citizens loose to make a home wherever they felt like? Or would you concentrate them in as small an area as possible, say in a high-rise?

I agree. I would rather see a shelter every 10 miles than thousands of camp sites spread all over the trail.

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 18:04
I agree. I would rather see a shelter every 10 miles than thousands of camp sites spread all over the trail.

there could be additional tent pads, instead of shelters, at the current locations. there are many campsites on the AT that do not have a wooden box and are quite nice.

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 18:08
Well my sleeping pad is on a peice of tyvek, my pillow (pocket built into bag) is resting on the relatively clean interior of my sleeping bag. And I always wash my hands too. See, not that big a distinction, is it?

where does the tyvek go when you pack up? look, you can rationalize your stay in the wooden boxes all you like. to me there is a big distinction and i simply don't for all of the reasons stated.

Stir Fry
04-22-2009, 18:24
I have onle section hiked so far, about 750 mi. Every shelter I come to it seems no one wants to tent until no chose becouse the shelter is full. Shelters have all the problems that have been talked about, but you can not beat the convience of, get up pack a dry bag and start hiking. the times that I had to tent I was 15 to 20 min. longer geting on the trail, and many times everything was wet. Say what you want, but by the time you reach VA. you will be in a shelter when its raining or you get in late.

fehchet
04-22-2009, 18:26
I've often thought the shelters should be eliminated. Then have a park bench every mile or so. The benches would be great places to sit down and rest or have a snack or take a snooze. After a few years tent sites would probably appear around some of the benches. Maybe wfi and licensed massage therapists too.

Engine
04-22-2009, 18:30
I've often thought the shelters should be eliminated. Then have a park bench every mile or so. The benches would be great places to sit down and rest or have a snack or take a snooze. After a few years tent sites would probably appear around some of the benches. Maybe wfi and licensed massage therapists too.

Self service Starbucks should mandated by the ATC! MMMMMMM, Mocha Light Frappachino and scones...:-?

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 18:42
it's a shame so many are dependent on shelters; it really controls the hiking miles and doesn't allow one to explore other trails.

vamelungeon
04-22-2009, 18:50
there could be additional tent pads, instead of shelters, at the current locations. there are many campsites on the AT that do not have a wooden box and are quite nice.
Exactly. Nice clean campsites.

Bilge Rat
04-22-2009, 19:00
I can't understand WANTING to sleep with vermin.

Are you referring to the hikers or the mice?:D

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 20:10
Are you referring to the hikers or the mice?:D

i think he meant both :)

CowHead
04-22-2009, 20:21
:eek:
One other small consideration. Most sleeping platforms in the shelters have a slight downward tilt going toward the opening. It is hard to detect, but I have a special sense for such things (it's my gift). This may be important if you're prone to head congestion or acid reflux.

you have a six sense you see tilt people

CowHead
04-22-2009, 20:24
So do you completely avoid hotels, restaraunts, bars, public transportation, etc. Sanitation is imperfect pretty much everywhere.

Thank God for Hepatitis A vaccine two shots prevent that and 3 shots of jack daniels cures the rest

bigcranky
04-22-2009, 21:32
Everyman:

Next time, ask about using your cell phone, or your gun, or something less controversial <grin>.

Everybody else, chill. We *know* you don't use shelters. You keep telling us over and over and over again. Thank you. The OP asked for some specific advice.


Can someone provide some insight into some practical issues having to do with sleeping in shelters?

You'll want a piece of tyvek or plastic to use as a ground sheet. Put your sleeping pad and bag on top (duh.) You can sleep in either direction -- depends on the situation. If it's buggy you might want a head net or some DEET, but the mice really won't be a big deal if you use *ear plugs.* Do not forget the ear plugs.

There are usually strings hanging from the rafters with a tuna can to block the mice, used for hanging your food bag. You'll probably have to share. Usually works okay, but if the shelter has bear cables outside, use those instead. Many newer shelters have big wooden pegs to hang your pack along the wall. Leave the pocket zippers open. Don't leave any food in your sleeping bag unless you want the mice to visit.

Etiquette: Don't spread your stuff all over the place. If there are more than a couple of people there, keep everything on top of your sleeping bag/pad. That's your space. Try to be quiet after dark. Don't talk on your cell phone. Don't walk outside and pee right behind the shelter. Do keep the place clean, sign the register, and enjoy pleasant conversation with other people who share your (very) unusual interest in walking through the woods with a pack.

everyman
04-22-2009, 21:43
Big Cranky - Did not expect so much passionate feedback, but that is what this type of forum allows for. I was simply looking for practical advice as I am looking to do some overnight hikes this summer and was planning to hammock but wondered how it worked in shelters as I have never used one before. I am aware of all the people related issues that can happen (stay up late, fart, be inconsiderate, etc) but was not aware of the weather/mice stuff. No ill intended.

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 21:50
Nice post bigcranky. One thing I would like to add before i move on...

if the weather is really, really bad and the shelter is empty, be prepared for an invasion of prep school kids with an attitude (or some other group of whiners), lots of wet muddy boots and a leader who keeps whining, 'oh my, i didn't mean for all 16 to move in this shelter built for 10. i mean we do have tents.' bro and i took one look at each other and said, 'yep, time to pack out' and left in a huge downpour with nightfall quickly approaching. true story and last time i will ever attempt to stay in a dirty wooden box. but y'all have fun now... i leave you to your own pleasures. :)

Tin Man
04-22-2009, 21:52
Big Cranky - Did not expect so much passionate feedback, but that is what this type of forum allows for. I was simply looking for practical advice as I am looking to do some overnight hikes this summer and was planning to hammock but wondered how it worked in shelters as I have never used one before. I am aware of all the people related issues that can happen (stay up late, fart, be inconsiderate, etc) but was not aware of the weather/mice stuff. No ill intended.

no ill intended here either... just trying to help. :)

stay in your hammock and you won't have all these issues. :cool:

flemdawg1
04-23-2009, 09:49
Its a personal choice, try one out for yourself. I've spent many more nights in a tent than a AT shelter. There are lots of other trails besides the AT. I find the convenience outweighs the negatives in most cases.

If you like it, it doesn't mean you're lazy or unclean, or whatever else the anti-shelterist say. HYOH.

superman
04-23-2009, 10:06
OK, many of you shelter dwellers don't carry a shelter alternative. During my 2000 thru hike I was hiking with TUK and a young woman. The young woman wasn't carrying any type of shelter. When we made camp she was going to cowboy camp (or cowgirl) but it started to rain. TUK made room in his tent and all was good. The next day we tried to settle the issue that resulted from that night. Here's the question: Does TUK get a notch on his headboard for sleeping with the young woman even though nothing happened? I don't think we ever resolved the issue but we did talk about it for a long time. :D

flemdawg1
04-23-2009, 10:23
No, it doesn't count.

superman
04-23-2009, 10:33
No, it doesn't count.
but she slept with him and there isn't anything in the rule book that says something has to happen. Ask a lot of married guys...something doesn't happen every night but every night they sleep together.:-?

flemdawg1
04-23-2009, 10:57
The notches aren't for actually sleeping. Some "afternoon delight" gets you a notch.

superman
04-23-2009, 11:24
The notches aren't for actually sleeping. Some "afternoon delight" gets you a notch.
so the speculation about earning notches for sleeping with women in shelters also don't count. That's too bad since some of those funny looking guy hikers couldn't get a notch any other way.:D

NINpigNIN
04-23-2009, 11:49
Maybe I should turn in my membership card, because I prefer shelters for the most part. Most of the issues can be easily negated with a very small amount of prep work. Worried about loudmouths or snorers? Earplugs weigh next to nothing. Mice getting into your pack? Hang the whole thing from the bear cables, not just the food bag.

Ramble~On
04-23-2009, 11:56
been years since i slept in a shelter but i slept with my head near the opening. mice won't run over your head then. don't ruin a nice day of walking by sleeping in a dirty wooden box with 10 others. makes no sense

I know this doesn't help answer the initial question but I have to agree with Lone Wolf. If you're tired and want a good night's sleep...you might get it in a shelter but a safe bet on a good sleep is away from the shelter...just my opinion.

Rain won't bother you inside a shelter 99% of the time and many have tarps. Most sleep with the head towards the opening and feet to the wall.

Gray Blazer
04-23-2009, 12:00
Does TUK get a notch on his headboard for sleeping with the young woman even though nothing happened? :D
Only if he packed the headboard in and out.

Engine
04-23-2009, 12:24
but she slept with him and there isn't anything in the rule book that says something has to happen. Ask a lot of married guys...something doesn't happen every night but every night they sleep together.:-?

Something is supposed to happen? What?

flemdawg1
04-23-2009, 12:43
so the speculation about earning notches for sleeping with women in shelters also don't count. That's too bad since some of those funny looking guy hikers couldn't get a notch any other way.:D

Thankfully, otherwise my wife would never let me hike again. :banana

superman
04-23-2009, 12:44
Something is supposed to happen? What?

LOL, Well maybe not. This notch on the head board issue was more entertaining as we hiked. Maybe it's akin to ramen noodles.:)

max patch
04-23-2009, 12:47
He masturbated. Does that count?

OldStormcrow
04-23-2009, 15:44
Thank you all for the feedback - educational and entertaining!!! So for those who have slept in shelters, what (if any) strategies have you seen deployed to keep mice off of the body? Zip up sleeping bag entirely? Wear some mesh thing around the head? Do the mice crawl into the sleeping bags or just crawl over the outside? And lastly in summer time when it is warm at night and you sleep on top of bag is it worse with no protection wrapped around you?
One thing that is important to remember is to completely brush the crumbs out of your beard and rinse your mouth out before going to bed. I was awakened once in the Smokys by shouts from the bunk below me. A mouse had crawled up on top this guy's beard and was nibbling around. As for the poster who mentioned his daughter getting her hand bitten....I don't know how old she was, but my daughter is only just now starting to get fastidious about washing her hands and she's 15! Nothing like a little peanut butter residue on your fingers to entice the fearless shelter mice.

Engine
04-23-2009, 16:05
LOL, Well maybe not. This notch on the head board issue was more entertaining as we hiked. Maybe it's akin to ramen noodles.:)

Yeah, they look so good in the store, all dry and light weight but calorie dense with different flavors. Then day 3 or 4 of the hike you look at the package, get a strange feeling in your stomach, and start to drool over your buddies mac and cheese...;)

stranger
04-25-2009, 05:16
There isn't anything you can do to avoid mice in shelters really, perhaps the only thing would be to use a bug bivy or something like that but to be honest, most experienced hikers I know prefer camping regardless of the weather.

Although I often aim for shelters, it's mainly due to good campsites and water sources, and in the south bear cables to some degree, but I very rarely sleep in the shelter itself these days.

I remember one night I was in my tent and this group of hikers (weekenders) were walking up the trail and they saw my tent and were like "ah damn the shelter must be full" or something like that and they were just so delighted that the shelter was empty, something I just don't understand.

gunner76
10-14-2009, 20:18
When I started hiking the AT in the 70's I do not remember there being many shelters and the few I came across were trashed and not usable. I use to hike until I felt it was time to stop. On a nice night I did not even set up a shelter, just slept on my top of my pad so I could watch the stars. I had to relocate one night and set up a tent when the mosquitoes came out.

Dogwood
10-15-2009, 01:29
Can someone provide some insight into some practical issues having to do with sleeping in shelters? First off - I am guessing that sleeping bags would be positioned perpendicular to the shelter opening with head against back wall and feet towards opening on shelter. Is that the case? Also if there is driving rain which is coming into outer edge of shelter floor, does everyone usually have some tarp with them to keep feet end of bags from getting drenched?

Mostly, when it's quite cold, everyone lays very closely snuggling with each other in the center of the shelter. As long as someone isn't wet and very cold they are often invited to also snuggle. After awhile people start touching one another. The down starts to fly. It's disgusting, but in a good way.