View Full Version : Single Wall Tents Work Well ?
I currently use a SD Lightning tent, but want something lighter and easier to keep the inside dry when it's raining (but still spider proof). How do the tarptent style single wall tents work in humid areas like MD & VA ? I'm planning section hikes there in the springtime (night time temps below the dew point). Will I have to wipe down the walls every few hours to prevent the condensation from raining on me inside the tent ?
Thanks.
Depends upon how well ventilated the tent is.
Don't fall into the trap of using the tent to stay warm when it gets cool outside, the tent's purpose is to shelter you from rain, mosquitos etc. and use your sleeping mat, bag and clothing layers to stay warm.
That bieng said I use a Lunar Duo and do get some condensation on the walls in the morning but never had to wipe down even in Florida (80% humidity)
I have a single wall tent, and it worked great once I figured out how to properly set it up.
rainmakerat92
04-25-2009, 09:16
Will I have to wipe down the walls every few hours to prevent the condensation from raining on me inside the tent ?
Normally, it's not quite that bad. It depends on ventilation, humidity and wind/breeze. Some nights, I get no noticeable condensation, but usually there is at least a little. However, the only time I've had to wipe down the inside of the tent is when it is raining outside.
stranger
04-25-2009, 09:33
You will have condensation on any tent, single or double wall, just with a single wall the moisture is inside with you and your sleeping bag. I've used about 7 different single wall tents over the years, and I would say that condensation will occur 90% of the time. Where I've had the least condensation has been New Zealand where the wind has been the strongest.
I've never had condensation to the point where it was dripping down on my bag. Condensation occurs when the temperature on either side of the fabric changes, so with any shelter it's always going to be cooler outside the shelter than inside, so condensation occurs.
Tarptents are decent products, well thought out, I've always felt their construction could be better personally.
garlic08
04-25-2009, 11:24
I used a Tarptent in that area last year and had no problems. Site selection is at least as important as ventilation, I think. I stayed away from dewy areas (low areas around water) whenever possible, preferring the higher, breezy ridges. Wake up dry, then prepare to be soaked when you walk through the dewy grass.
One advantage of the single wall tent is that it will dry completely in minutes in sun and wind.
Worst case dewy morning, it won't rain down on you, but you might want to wipe it down with a kerchief before you start moving around inside. When I do that, I use the fresh distilled water to take a quick sponge bath.
I'd mention that spiders or other insects will not cross open ground. If you clear back the leaves and brush or whatever your sleeping on you'll be less likely to encounter these things.
Tarptent rainbow is good. If you dont stake down the vestibule, you can have an entire side of the tent open to the breeze, or to breathe, and when it rains you can stake it down.
just used my rainbow for the first time like the above poster mentioned, the entire front wall is mesh, zero condensation. It's a great tent. 2lbs and tons of useable space. Even if it's raining there is a "porch" option if you've got trekking poles that would allow you to keep some air moving and not get wet unless it's windblown rain.
I think site selection is a little more important with these tents if you want to prevent the condensation, which way to face the door/tent and stuff like that. Just keep a sham-wow or something like that in the tent with you.
Blissful
04-25-2009, 22:50
I had no trouble at all with my tarptent last week in spring weahter. But take a small pack towel anyway to wipe down the inside if you need to. And before I sit up in the tent and there is condensation, I put on my rain jacket so my hat and clothng doesn't get wet brushing against the sides until I pack out.
generoll
04-26-2009, 07:48
ditto what they said. plan on having condensation and plan on wiping the tent down in the morning. when pitched in high winds I've had either light rain or snow fall off inside, depending on the temperature. the walls just shake the stuff loose. still worth the trade off in weight when I'm the one carrying.
I have a single wall tent - the BD Firstlight. It's a TENT with a floor, not a tarptent that pitches on bare ground. I've used it in all weather conditions, including snow and driving rains and have never had condensation problems. It can be colder, because I leave the window vent and part of the door vent open in inclement weathers in order to prevent any condensation from forming. But I love it - it's easy to set up and take down, it dries in a snap, and takes up less room in the pack.
bigcranky
04-27-2009, 12:27
I have a single wall tent - the BD Firstlight. It's a TENT with a floor, not a tarptent that pitches on bare ground.
What, it floats in the air or something?
Tarptents have a floor. They have bug netting. They have doors and vestibules and all that other stuff. (Yes, okay one can order a Tarptent without a floor if one wishes to do so. Your choice. Most people don't.)
Tarptents have significantly more ventilation than a tent like the Firstlight. That is an advantage in the summer, and a disadvantage in the winter. That's why the Firstlight is sold as a four-season climbing tent (http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/firstlight.php) (which usually means it's a one-season tent -- winter -- unless one is climbing serious mountains.) Having used that sort of tent on occasion, I would not recommend a climbing "assault tent" for three-season hiking on the AT. Your mileage may vary, of course.
I'm still trying to understand this hatred for Tarptents. The only practical difference between a Double Rainbow and, say, a Hubba Hubba, is that the rain fly is attached to the Double Rainbow, and it's a separate piece of the Hubba Hubba. So it's possible to pitch the H-H without the fly to get bug protection when it's not raining. That's great. Other than that, they both have 2 doors, 2 vestibules, complete bug netting, a floor, complete rain protection for three-season hiking. They both require stakes for a complete pitch. They both get soaked with condensation under the right conditions.
Oh, the other practical difference is that the packaged weight of the H-H is 4 pounds 11 ounces, and the packaged weight of the D-R is 2 pounds 8 ounces.
take-a-knee
04-27-2009, 12:35
I agree Cranky, the only thing better than a tarptent for three season hiking is a hammock.
I think he may have meant a tarp tent (like a floorless GoLite, etc...) as opposed to tarptent. As for the single wall tents, I am becoming more fond of my Double Rainbow every time I use it. Be sure to do a good job of seam sealing, maybe add a couple strips of silicone to the floor so the pad doesn't slide around, and keep something to wipe the condensation in the morning. As for the condensation, it is usually no worse that I would get with my SD Clip Flashlight on a damp night. And the Tarptent ventilates much better than anything I've used in it's size range before.
Thanks for the replies. To clarify: by Tarptent, I was thinking of the Henry Shires Cloudburst (or Squall 2) or SMD Lunar Duo (will be for 2 people). They all have floors and full bug netting but don't have netting between the fly and the occupants - so any condensation that drips will hit the sleeping bags rather than running down the netting.
When I go out in the MD area during the spring with the SD lightning (or family camping with a SD Meteor Light), the inner fly has big drops of condensation all over the inside even when I guy out the fly to get maximum ventilation. However, they roll down the mesh, and don't rain on the occupants, or get the sleeping bags wet.
ps: I tried using the Meteor Light without the fly ONCE in the Spring when I was sure it wouldn't rain. It turns out that the dew settled right through the mesh and soaked the sleeping bags about half way through (Marmot down bag & Sierra Designs poloarguard 3D bag). Both were plenty warm even when damp, but a pain to dry out at breaks, etc.
I'm just off the trail and I carried a new Tarptent Double Rainbow (Springer-Hot Springs), but did not have to use it in very heavy rain. However, a couple that I met did use one in a big storm and said the water came right through the fabric and drenched their down bags. They returned the DR and bought a Hubba Hubba from Mountain Crossings. I saw them in the Smokies. They warned me that "if you use a Tarptent you better hope that it doesn't rain."
We survived some mild rains in our DR, but we spent the massive downpours in shelters. In cold weather we had a lot of condensation inside the tarptent, but no other problems.
Tipi Walter
04-27-2009, 17:28
You will have condensation on any tent, single or double wall, just with a single wall the moisture is inside with you and your sleeping bag. I've used about 7 different single wall tents over the years, and I would say that condensation will occur 90% of the time. Where I've had the least condensation has been New Zealand where the wind has been the strongest.
I've never had condensation to the point where it was dripping down on my bag. Condensation occurs when the temperature on either side of the fabric changes, so with any shelter it's always going to be cooler outside the shelter than inside, so condensation occurs.
Tarptents are decent products, well thought out, I've always felt their construction could be better personally.
Stranger: Do any of your single walls have the wicking inner wall lining like on the Biblers and Integral Designs? I have a MK3 single wall and think it's a pretty bombproof tent and wonder about the moisture in the inner wall getting the foot of my sleeping bag wet. It did on one winter rainy trip and was just wondering how it works longterm.
What, it floats in the air or something?
Tarptents have a floor. They have bug netting. They have doors and vestibules and all that other stuff. (Yes, okay one can order a Tarptent without a floor if one wishes to do so. Your choice. Most people don't.)
Tarptents have significantly more ventilation than a tent like the Firstlight. That is an advantage in the summer, and a disadvantage in the winter. That's why the Firstlight is sold as a four-season climbing tent (http://www.blackdiamondequipment.com/gear/firstlight.php) (which usually means it's a one-season tent -- winter -- unless one is climbing serious mountains.) Having used that sort of tent on occasion, I would not recommend a climbing "assault tent" for three-season hiking on the AT. Your mileage may vary, of course.
I'm still trying to understand this hatred for Tarptents.
I don't know if it's a hatred, but many people recommend the Tarptents and yet get a bit defensive when any criticisms are made. Tarptent customers must be a loyal group and probably not too comfortable with individual users pointing out any possible flaws in the tents. In fact, no tent is perfect and every tent has its weaknesses and foibles.
bigcranky
04-27-2009, 19:59
I don't know if it's a hatred, but many people recommend the Tarptents and yet get a bit defensive when any criticisms are made.
It depends on the criticism. Saying "I have a real TENT that has a floor, not some Tarptent!" is not a valid criticism -- Tarptents have floors, too. Saying "you'd better hope it doesn't rain" if you use a Tarptent goes directly against my own experience with silnylon in all forms -- in Tarptents, tarps, etc. I've been in some serious downpours in three different Tarptents, and two different silnylon tarps. I never had rain coming through the fabric. (Nor have I had rain coming in through the floor. I only had that experience in a "real TENT.")
Condensation is a different story. Sure, a double wall tent can keep your bag from touching the wet side walls. The two questions are, (1) is this a serious problem, and (2) whether it's worth carrying significantly more weight. For me, under 3+ season conditions on the Southern AT, it's not. Others will make different choices.
I'm just off the trail and I carried a new Tarptent Double Rainbow (Springer-Hot Springs), but did not have to use it in very heavy rain. However, a couple that I met did use one in a big storm and said the water came right through the fabric and drenched their down bags. They returned the DR and bought a Hubba Hubba from Mountain Crossings. I saw them in the Smokies. They warned me that "if you use a Tarptent you better hope that it doesn't rain."
We survived some mild rains in our DR, but we spent the massive downpours in shelters. In cold weather we had a lot of condensation inside the tarptent, but no other problems.
I read their journal a few weeks ago and it seems to me I remember a mention that they didn't seam seal the tent. There are WAY too many satisfied customers and the tech with respect to materials has been around for a while now. I am headed to GSMNP next week for a 6 day trip with my Double Rainbow and rain is forecast, I'll report back afterward.
stranger
04-28-2009, 08:18
I used Garuda for a while once, which was later bought by Dana Design, and that used the wicking idea, it seemed to work ok.
Although condensation will occur in any tent, the Tarptent designs (by Henry Shires) are designed well in the fact that the bathtub floor is smaller than the width of the fly, so water can drip outside - the MSR Fling is another good example of this.
I dislike condensation like the next person, but I've never had issues with getting my bag wet due to condensation, no more so than a double wall tent.
I agree Tarptent users seem to respond to criticism harshly, and as good as Tarptents are, the construction is poor for the price in my opinion, I had more than one problem with mine and had to send it back to get re-stitched. Put a Tarptent next to something by MSR or Big Agnes, there is no match in quality what so ever. Saying that, Tarptents are made "well enough" in my view, perhaps I'm just used to the long standing "overbuilt" construction of major brands.
I will agree that MSR, SD, the old Moss brand, and many others are constructed with better seams. Some of that comes from using heavier fabric which is easier to work with and provides a much tougher final product. My Tarptent (and the SMD models I've looked at) does seem to be constructed "well enough" however and as long as I avoid 12" of wet snow or 70 mph winds, I tend to think it will allow me many years of use.
I'd mention that spiders or other insects will not cross open ground. If you clear back the leaves and brush or whatever your sleeping on you'll be less likely to encounter these things.
I never heard that. You mean if you clear down to the dirt around where you sleep, the bugs won't bug you, really?
I read their journal a few weeks ago and it seems to me I remember a mention that they didn't seam seal the tent. There are WAY too many satisfied customers and the tech with respect to materials has been around for a while now. I am headed to GSMNP next week for a 6 day trip with my Double Rainbow and rain is forecast, I'll report back afterward.
That could easily be... I spent a week carefully seam sealing mine. Somebody in an hurry might skip the job, or underdo.
Having said that, the particular storm that soaked the couple was a real woozey, not just "rain". We had just got to the Standing Indian Shelter when it cut loose. It probably rained 3 inches in a hour or so. Absolutely buckets. I'm glad I was under a roof.
I currently use a SD Lightning tent, but want something lighter and easier to keep the inside dry when it's raining (but still spider proof). How do the tarptent style single wall tents work in humid areas like MD & VA ? I'm planning section hikes there in the springtime (night time temps below the dew point). Will I have to wipe down the walls every few hours to prevent the condensation from raining on me inside the tent ?
Thanks.
The only conditions which are pretty much guaranteed problematic are High humidity coupled with no wind, hot bodies inside, cool air outside and heavy rain. You will have condensation and it will get knocked off onto you by the raindrops. You can mop it off once in a while with a bandanna to minimize this. Again, this is a rare situation. Frost, of course, can be a problem in a single walled tent just as it is on the underside of a double walled tent and more especially, in the vestibule area.
Carry one of those "shammy" cloths with you to wipe down the condensation. Easy to wring out and re-use.
Second choice: carry a half dozen of those blue shop towels they sell on a roll in auto parts stores, Walmart, etc. They wring out well too and dry in a minute once the sun comes out.
I never heard that. You mean if you clear down to the dirt around where you sleep, the bugs won't bug you, really?
I may be the only one to have seen spiders, ants, wasps, and ticks crawling on bare dirt.
If I didn't have a shelter with a floor, I think I'd spray the heck out of a piece of Tyvek with Permethrin for use as a ground cloth. That way spiders and ticks would die after crawling over it. I doubt it would have much effect on snakes, skunks, rats, etc. :-?
Ratchet-SectionHiker
05-06-2009, 20:25
We just purchased a SMD Lunar Duo and love it. We ordered it a bit late for our trip and it was supposed to be delivered on Thursday afternoon. Long story short I picked it up at the post office on Saturday morning and headed for the trail. We did not seam seal it or even have the chance to set it up before we left! Between me and my wife we had it up in less than 15 minutes and that was our first time setting up anykind of ultralight shelter. This will be MUCH faster next time. With the vestibule guyed out on one side, and allowed to drape down on the other, we had NO condensation with a 2-3hr rain storm in the middle of the night. Remember, inside the tent were me, my wife, and two 60 lb dogs. So without the seam sealing and without being staked out entirely there were almost no problems with condensation or rain leaking. The only water problem we had was during the hardest part of the rain, the water started to run under the tent and soaked through under my wife's pad. Next weekend we are using a tyvek ground cloth to help prevent this. Packed it up in the rain and hiked out. We returned home and strung it out in the basement and it was completely dry and ready to pack within 2-3 hours. We were near pearisburg, Va (angels rest) with night temps in the 60's and we were in moderately light woods with a decent breeze coming across the upper side of the ridge. Hope this helps!http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=33433&original=1&c=
garlic08
05-06-2009, 21:22
Silnylon floors do not keep out standing water, for sure. I learned the hard way to pitch on high dry ground. That's easy to do on the AT. Leaf duff is excellent--soft and well-drained.
The Tyvek sheet will not necessarily cure the problem, either. Site selection is most important. Good luck on your next trip.
I'm just off the trail and I carried a new Tarptent Double Rainbow (Springer-Hot Springs), but did not have to use it in very heavy rain. However, a couple that I met did use one in a big storm and said the water came right through the fabric and drenched their down bags. They returned the DR and bought a Hubba Hubba from Mountain Crossings. I saw them in the Smokies. They warned me that "if you use a Tarptent you better hope that it doesn't rain."
My wife and I are currently using a Tarptent Rainshadow 2 on our AT thru hike. We also carry down bags. With over 530 miles behind us, we've been through numerous hard and continuous all night rains - all without a problem. I have to assume that the DR mentioned above was not seam sealed properly.
gonewalkabout
05-06-2009, 22:42
I currently use a SD Lightning tent, but want something lighter and easier to keep the inside dry when it's raining (but still spider proof). How do the tarptent style single wall tents work in humid areas like MD & VA ? I'm planning section hikes there in the springtime (night time temps below the dew point). Will I have to wipe down the walls every few hours to prevent the condensation from raining on me inside the tent ?
Thanks.
I have two SD Lightnings i.e. if you are refering to the orignal single wall tent. They work great until about 70 F unless you are in a dry climate like out west. I like my Contrail from traptent. Much more roomy and if vented stays dry. So far I used it for about 20 nights onmy NOBO since March 3rd. No complaints, I love it. Only 26 oz.
Thanks for all the advise so far. The SD Lightning I have is the current double wall version (1 door, mesh starts about 12-15" inches up from the bottom).
Hilleberg the tent maker makes a single wall (rajd) tent that has high enough ceiling in it that you can sit up inside and a very roomy shelter. Very easy set up. Drawback is that in a high wind situation it could be a problem. But as far as condensation I havent had that problem with it at all. Even when the walls did get condensation you are not close to them in it. Weight is only 2.2 lbs. It is however rather expensive.