View Full Version : Missing Hiker in NH's White Mountains
Tom Murphy
04-27-2009, 14:32
http://www.wildlife.state.nh.us/Newsroom/News_2009/News_2009_Q2/search_SMason_missing_MA_teen_042709.html
CONTACT:
Lt. Robert Bryant: 603-271-3127
Liza Poinier: 603-271-3211
April 27, 2009
Search Ongoing for Teen Missing in White Mountains
CONCORD, N.H. - A search in New Hampshire's White Mountains has been ongoing since Sunday for a missing 17-year-old. Scott Mason of Halifax, Mass., left the Appalachian Mountain Club's Pinkham Notch Visitor Center at approximately 8:30 on Saturday morning, intending to do a 17-mile hike. Mason was hiking alone. His plans included hiking to the summits of Mount Washington and Mount Madison, then returning to the Pinkham Notch Visitor Center. Mason's plan was to complete the trip in one day. It is unknown what type of clothing and gear he is carrying.
The conditions in the high country currently include waist-deep snow with the potential for avalanches. Heavy rains overnight Sunday and Monday morning have added to the difficulty of the search, with resulting high water making stream crossings extremely difficult. The temperatures have been mild, remaining in the 40s overnight.
Currently the NH Fish and Game Department is coordinating the search. The U.S. Forest Service, Appalachian Mountain Club, Mountain Rescue Service and Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue are rendering additional assistance.
HikerRanky
04-27-2009, 14:51
Here's praying for a good result.....
Randy
hope they find the lad.ky
Blissful
04-27-2009, 15:11
Boy, I don't know. Hope he's okay. 17 too. Man oh man.
chrishowe11
04-27-2009, 15:13
he's pullin a chris mcandlas or what ever his name was...
hope your out there buddy
Alaskanhkr23
04-27-2009, 16:08
Oh yeah Christopher Mccandless all the way.Sorry to hear it though that som e kid may die.Prayers to his family,I know some people that hike that area its touph
Alaskanhkr23
04-27-2009, 16:21
I feel helpless i live by there well bout 3 hours away but that my old stompin ground for hiking
17 miles is a long strenous hike anytime in the Whites.
TJ aka Teej
04-28-2009, 08:34
NH TV reported the ME Forestry helo spotted tracks heading down Six Husbands. If that's him, he'll hit possibly uncrossable high water. No sleeping bag or tent - that's woefully unprepared.
the goat
04-28-2009, 09:05
No sleeping bag or tent - that's woefully unprepared.
i don't know a/b anyone else, but i've never carried a sleeping bag or tent on a day hike. never seen anyone else do it either, for that matter.
Tom Murphy
04-28-2009, 09:10
Still no word..this is the latest
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Search+for+teen+hiker+focuse s+on+Great+Gulf&articleId=6aece36e-82d4-4c13-bfb0-f85a1b9f25b2
Well first off, I sure hope they find this kid alive. I am not optimistic thought.
This is actually worse than what Chris Mccandles (sp?) tried to do.
Mid April in the Whites, heading up from PMC over summits of Madison and Washington facing waist deep snow or more and expecting to do it all in one day. What really bothers me is, far as I know, he had no gear for staying out over night. Sleeping bag, tent etc. Man that is REALLY rolling the dice even if you know what you are doing. The people who "know what they are doing" do NOT attempt a 17 mile hike in the presidentials in winter/spring conditions alone and without provisions for staying out over night. At the very least he should have had a sleeping bag and a tent.
David
Lone Wolf
04-28-2009, 09:17
whwere's the parents through all this? what were they thinkin'?
Tom Murphy
04-28-2009, 09:18
I agree that carring a sleeping bag on a spring day hike is overkill, but with all due respect, I don't think of this hike that Scott attempted as a day hike.
Scott was planning a 17 mile hike across the Northern Presidential Range..alone. He started late too - 8:30am.
There is still a lot of snow at the elevations he was going to. Waist deep, wet, slushy snow.
When I am day hiking solo in the winter, I always carry a sleeping bag and w/p bivy.
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 09:40
whwere's the parents through all this? what were they thinkin'?
Thats what Im saying
Sad. I don't know the area, but this is just sad. More kids need to have such spirit, but there is so much to learn. So much conflicting information. Its hard to learn without not knowing when you are making some big mistakes. Very dangerous time of the year for sure. Praying for him.
HikerRanky
04-28-2009, 10:22
i don't know a/b anyone else, but i've never carried a sleeping bag or tent on a day hike. never seen anyone else do it either, for that matter.
I do carry a sleeping bag and a shelter with me.... Seen the weather change too rapidly for my comfort...
Randy
Snowleopard
04-28-2009, 10:23
"took a thermal blanket" (Mylar space blanket??).
It's tough conditions, but warm. Apparently some places with 20' of melting snow. If he hasn't been injured and he's careful, he'll probably be OK. Rescuers are following tracks into the Great Gulf Wilderness (seems like lots of lost winter hikers end up there). River levels are very high from snow melt now. I hope he's OK.
Blissful
04-28-2009, 10:30
whwere's the parents through all this? what were they thinkin'?
Absolutely.
Unless this kid took off on his own without saying. And at this age, could very well be...
I was up there hiking that same day, he was ahead of us I am assuming judging by his and my departure times. He was aiming for a 17 mile day and we did a 14. But his itinerary involved much more elevation gain and loss than ours. Its so hard to say where he could have ended up given the option for escape routes. I am thinking he probably wandered down into the Great Gulf Wilderness via Six Husbands trail or Sphinx. There were a few times that day where I thought to myself, it would be really easy to just get over exhausted in these conditions. Slush, ice, deep snow in places and not to mention the sun reflecting off of the snow which I believe took it out of me the most. At times we only averaged a mile an hour, I carried 2 liters of water and that still didn't feel like it was enough. There is hope for this kid, its been warm and sunny for the most part. River crossings are horribly dangerous right now though. Spring time here is so decieving.
Blissful
04-28-2009, 10:40
Sphynx was bad even in the summer. We hit it with major flooding after a storm - a nightmare. Got hypothermic too.
Absolutely.
Unless this kid took off on his own without saying. And at this age, could very well be...
His parents knew all about it. Apparently, his mother just went through surgery while he planned this hike and their attention was more focused on that. Although, as his father says, he is an eagle scout and was confident in his ability. But I say if you're 17 and you're planning a hike like this in the spring, find someone to hike with! Eagle scout means nothing to me.
I was up there hiking that same day, he was ahead of us I am assuming judging by his and my departure times. He was aiming for a 17 mile day and we did a 14. But his itinerary involved much more elevation gain and loss than ours. Its so hard to say where he could have ended up given the option for escape routes. I am thinking he probably wandered down into the Great Gulf Wilderness via Six Husbands trail or Sphinx. There were a few times that day where I thought to myself, it would be really easy to just get over exhausted in these conditions. Slush, ice, deep snow in places and not to mention the sun reflecting off of the snow which I believe took it out of me the most. At times we only averaged a mile an hour, I carried 2 liters of water and that still didn't feel like it was enough. There is hope for this kid, its been warm and sunny for the most part. River crossings are horribly dangerous right now though. Spring time here is so decieving.That's a very informative and insightful post. Thanks Ryan.
I always have a small tarp and emergency blanket in my pack. I also never leave without an extra meal. You never know when a day-hike might turn in to an "uh-oh" situation.
Snowleopard
04-28-2009, 11:06
He's been found safe according to a Boston radio station.
I would also agree about what you said about Eagle Scout at 17 shouldn't go alone this time of year. It's tough though because it can be hard to get people to do stuff with you. But at that age it is great to have as much skills and training as you can, but 17 is still 17. You don't really know yourself and what you know and what you might not know for real until you make some big mistakes, as in this case. I'm still hopeful though. He could turn out to be one tough hombre.
I'm not worried about the lack of sleeping gear as I am about food and fatigue and making the right choices at blocked river crossings and so forth. Good reason to carry sleeping gear, to have options, but he might have good clothing layers also. There are trade-offs regarding weight and mobility, but its usually repeated mistakes on the trail that cause us the most harm when one thing starts to lead to another. Having the right partner along helps, but a willing partner is often not to be had. In the end all we ever have is our own judgement, and that sometimes comes at a price. This may well have been the wrong hike the wrong time of year for a solo hike at 17, but I don't know that. Can't believe everything you here. I just want to see more people like him, not one less. Here's hoping.
Snowleopard
04-28-2009, 11:10
http://www.wmur.com/news/19311072/detail.html
Not much detail here. He was found near Mt. Clay.
He's been found safe according to a Boston radio station.Hey. That's Great!
http://www.wmur.com/news/19311072/detail.html
Not much detail here. He was found near Mt. Clay.
His parents on clueless. He was lucky this time.
Sounds like he was better at surviving than everyone gave him credit for...
Well we don't really ever know do we?
Lot's of 17 year olds were out driving too fast on the weekend, and many older people also.
Sounds like he was better at surviving than everyone gave him credit for...
well, he IS an Eagle Scout... but, still lucky and he should think twice or six times before trying to pull a stunt like that again
He's been found safe according to a Boston radio station.
That's happy news :banana
Panzer
Sounds like he was better at surviving than everyone gave him credit for... ... and he is that much better now also.
Of course there is always the chance that it could have turned out differently.
In my way of thinking however, this may be part of the way real adventurers are created. People don't want to read that, perhaps because it might lead people astray, which is true, but nevertheless, that's the way it is. This guy made it, that is certain. Perhaps riskier than he thought it was. Now he knows better.
Cudos to all the searchers and rescuers.
I wonder if NH is going to charge him for the search. This certainly falls under "reckless negligence"
Thank goodness there's a happy ending to report. The young man apparently knew enough to make some of the right choices.
We all do things that we shouldn't and when we get away with them, we say "See I have the skill to handle it." In reality a big dose of luck also comes into play. If we didn't have that dose of luck, others would be talking about us and about how "unprepared" or ignorant we were for getting into the situation.
Hopefully the young man learned some very valuable lessons about his own mortality that will serve him well in the future, but I certainly will not condemn him for being foolhardy - we all are, usually every day - as JAK points out above.
What are the options for good communications in the Whites?
... so if you are in trouble you can assist in your rescue, and if only delayed, can call off a major search and rescue, which might be just as important. That's a major concern of mine. How do you keep people from searching for you should you make the call to hunker down, or turn back and take the longer safer way home?
I wonder if NH is going to charge him for the search. This certainly falls under "reckless negligence"We don't know that.
I wonder if NH is going to charge him for the search. This certainly falls under "reckless negligence"Correction.
I don't know that. You might.
What are the options for good communications in the Whites?
... so if you are in trouble you can assist in your rescue, and if only delayed, can call off a major search and rescue, which might be just as important. That's a major concern of mine. How do you keep people from searching for you should you make the call to hunker down, or turn back and take the longer safer way home?
Look at watch, look at map, decide about 1/3 of the way whether you are going to make it and if you starting thinking with a big head, definitely time to turn around. simple really.
If I had a dollar for everytime some fisherman said I shouldn't be out on the Bay of Fundy...
Well I guess I would still have only about $20 or $30, but still.
Not that they don't know the Bay better than I do. Just saying.
Correction.
I don't know that. You might.
I don't know. I'm just going off of what the members here are saying.
Look at watch, look at map, decide about 1/3 of the way whether you are going to make it and if you starting thinking with a big head, definitely time to turn around. simple really.I understand that part. My question was about communications. Sometimes it is tempting to take risks so that people don't worry or start a search and rescue. Good communications can help prevent that. What works in the Whites?
I understand that part. My question was about communications. Sometimes it is tempting to take risks so that people don't worry or start a search and rescue. Good communications can help prevent that. What works in the Whites?
what works is not getting into that position. pretty simple.
Also, on certain routes you can be 90% done and find out you have to go back, or sit tight for 2-3 days. Communications would be very handy in such circumstances. What works?
Chenango
04-28-2009, 11:37
The boy was smart enough to bring at least space blanket with him.
Two Speed
04-28-2009, 11:37
Sorry, Tin Man, you're arguing for applying common sense. Ain't gonna happen.
what works is not getting into that position. pretty simple.That is not always so simple.
Sorry, Tin Man, you're arguing for applying common sense. Ain't gonna happen.No he ain't really. He's just arguing for applying narrow minded thinking.
What communications works best in the Whites. Anyone?
That is not always so simple.
in this case it was. 17-miles in those conditions. only someone with a big ego thinks they can beat the mtn. actually, if you start thinking you can beat the mtn, time to re-think, the mtn. wins more than not
What communications works best in the Whites? Anyone?
OK. Forget that.
What communications works best on WhiteBlaze?
No he ain't really. He's just arguing for applying narrow minded thinking.
What communications works best in the Whites. Anyone?
narrow minded thinking is thinking you are better than the mtn and anyone else who has tried a stupid stunt
Lone Wolf
04-28-2009, 11:41
morse code and smoke signals
Two Speed
04-28-2009, 11:41
I dunno, how about communicating with your wristwatch, map and common sense. Oughta work.
OK. Forget that.
What communications works best on WhiteBlaze?
trolling...
I dunno, how about communicating with your wristwatch, map and common sense. Oughta work.
careful, you are starting to sound narrow minded. :rolleyes:
OK. Forget that.
What communications works best on WhiteBlaze?Thanks for the suggestions. lol
So he was found alive and in good condition this morning at 10:04 AM. What a good success story and a valuble lesson. I am happy for him and his family.
Back to the original topic, this young man survived and for that we should all be thankful. Without any real details about what happened we are all making some large assumptions about his possible lack of judgment. My family and I survived a 150 foot fall on an ice field in RMNP in '99. The story that goes with that is too long for this venue, but suffice to say I may some errors in judgment that were compounded by poor weather and altitude. The end result was nearly disastrous and we spent a long 24 hours getting out to a road.
It's easy to say what bad decisions this young man might have made from our armchairs. But we weren't there and cannot even guess what the details are. I can say from experience that small problems can become very big problems in a hurry and being human we are all susceptible.
morse code and smoke signals
Gomer Pyle said it best Hooty-hoo Hooty-hoo.
Sounds like their is little communication in such a remote area. Speaking as a parent of a 17 year old, I'm just happy for the end result of the young man.
Snowleopard
04-28-2009, 11:58
What communications works best in the Whites? Anyone?
Cell phones and ham radio probably work on the summits, but once you drop down nothing would be reliable. Satellite phones?? There's at least one ham radio operator on Whiteblaze who would probably know, but I forget his name.
--Walter
What communications works best in the Whites? Anyone?
call the park office before attempting something like this and listen to what they say. that would be best
he's pullin a chris mcandlas or what ever his name was...
hope your out there buddy
Mike Mason said his son took a thermal blanket before heading up the mountain. He also had snow shoes, an ice pick and metal spikes for his shoes. His mother said he likely didn't have a tent or a sleeping bag because he only planned to hike for one day.
No Alexander Supertramp here, on top of that an Eagle Scout.
Snowleopard
04-28-2009, 12:38
A little more info:
Scott Mason is an Eagle Scout and a high school junior. Rescuers said he was hiking along the ridgeline when he decided look for a shortcut.
"He came down this trail, the Six Husbands trail, and came across a river, and he just could not cross the river," said Maj. Tim Acerno of the Fish and Game Department. "He couldn't get back up."
The snow conditions hampered rescue efforts. Acerno said even veteran searchers couldn't make much progress.
"Even with snowshoes on, they're still breaking through the snow," he said. "It could be up to their waist. And when they do that, they have to roll out of it, try to get their other leg up, so it is slow moving there."
A helicopter from the Vermont National Guard also assisted in the search. Mason eventually found hiking his back up toward the ridgeline on Mount Clay.
http://www.wmur.com/news/19311072/detail.html
I'm really glad he's OK. The weather was warm but there was avalanche danger and stream crossings were dangerous. He lucked out on the weather. Low temp was 48F. and high wind gust was 78, balmy conditions for Mt. Washington.
http://www.mountwashington.org/weather/conditions.php
2011_thruhiker
04-28-2009, 12:53
He has been found alive and well on the presidential mountain range-well enough to continue the hike with his rescuers to the Mt. Washington observatory for a "snow cat" ride down the mountain.
Nice ending!! He has no idea how lucky he is!!!
Phoenixdadeadhead
04-28-2009, 13:14
Glad he found, so now I don't feel so bad when I give him a hard time. I know he isn't the first or the last to make a mistake on the trail. I am willing to bet every 1 of us here has been a bonehead once lol. I know a lot of people see no problem with lone hiking, but if I can help it, I always have a "Trail Dawg" (a friend) with me. In 96, or 97 forget which I was hiking Shasta, and it was in the 80's. Now I had never hiked shasta b4, but hell you could see there was snow on the top. Well the 3 of us get toward the top and it starts snowing. It is butt a55 cold and snowing. We stopped to take a break and I made some coffee, I don't know if the smell was hiker attracter or what, but b4 we got up there was close to a dozen of us, most of which had summer bags and next to no gear. None of these people were dumb, and they were all experienced. I guess what I am trying to say is, we each hopefully know our limits, and take the safety gear we feel we can safely survive with, but we all need a good "Trail Dawg"
Pokey2006
04-28-2009, 13:20
I wonder if NH is going to charge him for the search. This certainly falls under "reckless negligence"
This is why I disagree so strongly with NH's law. Who's to say what is negligence and what is just someone at home panicking? It's too subjective.
Sounded like, from what little I know, that the kid was still moving when they found him. Who's to say that, given a few more hours, he wouldn't have been able to hike out on his own?
Now, if he was sitting on top of the mountain in the snow, dehydrated, near death, crying and calling 911 for help, then I'd say, THAT's negligence. But my idea of negligence is obviously different from someone else's.
Phoenixdadeadhead
04-28-2009, 13:44
This is why I disagree so strongly with NH's law. Who's to say what is negligence and what is just someone at home panicking? It's too subjective.
Sounded like, from what little I know, that the kid was still moving when they found him. Who's to say that, given a few more hours, he wouldn't have been able to hike out on his own?
Now, if he was sitting on top of the mountain in the snow, dehydrated, near death, crying and calling 911 for help, then I'd say, THAT's negligence. But my idea of negligence is obviously different from someone else's.
I'm with you, but seriously if we start charging people on either side (the worry warts, or the overconfident hiker) I think we are asking for trouble. The people at home will wait longer to call, possibly killing people who could be saved, and although some hikers would file in depth reports of where they are going, many more just wouldn't tell any1 then. If the rescuers are sent on a wild goose chase every now and then, GREAT!!!!!!! No need for expensive training then. I think at least once a month, rescuers should go out and find some1, that way when 1 of us really need help because we lost footing and rolled down the mountain, these awesome men and women will have the skills and experience to find us in no time flat. But hey, that is just my opinion.
This is why I disagree so strongly with NH's law. Who's to say what is negligence and what is just someone at home panicking? It's too subjective.
Sounded like, from what little I know, that the kid was still moving when they found him. Who's to say that, given a few more hours, he wouldn't have been able to hike out on his own?
Now, if he was sitting on top of the mountain in the snow, dehydrated, near death, crying and calling 911 for help, then I'd say, THAT's negligence. But my idea of negligence is obviously different from someone else's.
I'm with you and this subject was hashed out long and angrily(just search it once, good stuff)... BUT, it does sound as if he was negligent as everyone is saying he shouldn't have attempted what he originally set out for.
I wonder if being a minor(although he's cutting it close) figures in...
I'm with you, but seriously if we start charging people on either side (the worry warts, or the overconfident hiker) I think we are asking for trouble. The people at home will wait longer to call, possibly killing people who could be saved, and although some hikers would file in depth reports of where they are going, many more just wouldn't tell any1 then. If the rescuers are sent on a wild goose chase every now and then, GREAT!!!!!!! No need for expensive training then. I think at least once a month, rescuers should go out and find some1, that way when 1 of us really need help because we lost footing and rolled down the mountain, these awesome men and women will have the skills and experience to find us in no time flat. But hey, that is just my opinion.
Those awesome men and women DO have the skills to find people up there in short amounts of time. The need to charge people for rescue services was born out of the fact that every time search and rescue is sent out, they put their own lives in danger to find those lost. I'm not saying everyone should be charged, and thats why they look into whether it was stupidity or negligence in the first place. I remember quite a few years ago alot of hikers calling for help when they really werent in any serious danger at all, just lost in a cloud on top of a mountain and started freaking out. When S and R is called out in cases like that, they are utilizing manpower and resources for no reason at all really. And what happens if they are out on one of those calls and a real emergency arises? Seriously people, it's not like they go around charging everyone they rescue, they really look at the circumstances and go from there.
Blissful
04-28-2009, 14:26
His parents knew all about it. Apparently, his mother just went through surgery while he planned this hike and their attention was more focused on that. Although, as his father says, he is an eagle scout and was confident in his ability. But I say if you're 17 and you're planning a hike like this in the spring, find someone to hike with! Eagle scout means nothing to me.
Wow that is just what my hubby (he's a scoutmaster) said to me when I told him - he said he bet this kid was an Eagle Scout and thought he could do it all (which being an Eagle doesn't mean you're ready for this kind of mountaineering by any stretch).
Oh, I just read he's been found! Wow so glad.
Phoenixdadeadhead
04-28-2009, 14:44
I have seen how circumstances are looked at, and it has nothing to do with the men and women who are out there doing the real work. For some reason we allowed the government to take common sense out of legal decisions, like the man being charged for jay walking when he was pushing 3 people out of the way of a speeding truck, or the women who was charged with declaring a false emergency, when she called 911 when a store stole 5 dollars from here, admitted it and then refused to give her her money back. Unfortunately, we have asked our government for iron clad laws, and mandatory sentencing, with no way to avoid charging someone we feel should not be charged, without setting a legal precedent, which then creates a legal loophole for others who deserve to be charged. Are there some morons that we wish we could just smack in the back of the head? Of course there are. Unfortunately, if an ADA, with no knowledge of hiking, or what really happened, takes the rescuers suggestion, and any and all outside pressure to either A. charge them, or B. let them go, and makes a decision based on what is best for their career. Want to punish Morons who make mistakes? Print a front page article, making them look like idiots, call Steven Colbert, and John Stewart, as well as any other news agency who will make these people wish they could just disappear and watch and laugh with the world at their expense.
HikerRanky
04-28-2009, 14:44
So glad to hear that this story has a good ending....
Randy
rlharris
04-28-2009, 14:46
What communications works best in the Whites? Anyone?
Mobile (cell) coverage is spotty. Gosh, I don't even have cell phone access anywhere in my town.
Amateur radio (2 meter transceiver) will work in more areas. I can access a repeater almost everywhere I hike. Well, maybe not in the deepest ravines. My transceiver is preprogrammed with the frequencies and PLs for all the repeaters in Grafton, Coos, and Carroll counties in New Hampshire. A couple of them are actively monitored by the area hams and we will respond to a call for assistance.
It is not that hard to get the entry level amateur radio license (technican). Canadians have reciprocal privileges in the US
Cell phones and ham radio probably work on the summits, but once you drop down nothing would be reliable. Satellite phones?? There's at least one ham radio operator on Whiteblaze who would probably know, but I forget his name.
--Walter
I know my cell phone worked on the Mt Washington summit last summer....
the goat
04-28-2009, 15:12
I do carry a sleeping bag and a shelter with me.... Seen the weather change too rapidly for my comfort...
Randy
you carry a big pack on day trips?
Homer&Marje
04-28-2009, 15:15
Was up by Moosilauke and Kinsmans ridge a few weeks ago doing a little snow shoeing and the streams and rivers were absolutely wild up there. We turned around many a times even at lower elevations due to not wanting to cross. Mind you we were out day hiking in jeans that day but.... 17 miles in one day in the Whites right now, especially that far north is a stretch. Don't think he should be charged by the state of New Hampshire, but it seems he laid his plans out and people let him go.... call it negligent on everyones part. Just too many miles for one day in those conditions.
The Old Fhart
04-28-2009, 15:27
Pokey2006-“This is why I disagree so strongly with NH's law. Who's to say what is negligence and what is just someone at home panicking? It's too subjective.”
It stops being subjective when someone goes out alone on a 17 mile day hike ill prepared, doesn’t return, and his parents call for a S&R. The S&R personnel in the Whites are some of the best to be found and several have Everest experience as well as knowing the Whites from decades of hiking. They make the decision based on experience and I’d hardly call that “too subjective”. The fact that Scott Mason was missing for 3 days also takes subjective out of this equation. Also for others to say:"...but it seems he laid his plans out and people let him go.... call it negligent on everyones part", isn't correct at all. There are no hiking police to prevent people from doing something dumb and I'm sure hikers would scream to high heaven if someone tried to stop them.
The weather and summit conditions are posted every morning at Pinkham before 7AM so when Scott Mason left there at 8:30AM he knew exactly what to expect, including the avalanche danger. Also leaving that late for a long strenuous hike shows poor judgment on Scott’s part. In the Whites this would still be considered a winter type hike and if you have a recommended group size of 4 to take turns breaking trail where there is deep unpacked snow you might be making far less than a mile per hour, alone it might be impossible. Many long winter trips start before 6AM.
Anyone familiar with the area knows the Great Gulf isn’t the place to be when there is lots of snowmelt. Being on the east side of the mountains it has a tendency to fill with snow and the sun doesn’t have a chance to melt it as fast as that on the westerly slopes. When we get several days of unusually high temperatures the snow starts to melt fast, causing problems for ill informed hikers. It isn’t unheard of for hikers to be trapped in the Great Gulf by high water and having to wait a day or so for it to drop so they could get out. I worked for the USFS years ago and spent 2 weeks working in the Great Gulf plus I have 4 winters working on for the Observatory on the summit and 45 years of hiking the area in all seasons so I consider my experience gives me some insight to comment on this incident. The fact that he walked out is great but it doesn’t change the fact that this was an extremely foolish plan for a hike. It is unfair to compare Scott to Alexander Supertramp because he had some mental issues where Scott is what most people would consider “just a dumb kid.” If you read the following I clipped from the news article you can see how many people his poor judgment put in harms way and the number of resources involved in this S&R. Whether he (or his parents) get charged for the S&R effort remains to be seen.
“Mason was found on the Sphinx Trail in the Great Gulf Wilderness, headed west back toward the summits of the Presidential Range. The search team will hike with Mason back to the summit of Mt. Washington, where he will then ride a Sno-Cat down the auto road. Because of where Mason was located and conditions on the ground, this is the only prudent exit from the mountain.
Conditions in the White Mountains became increasingly treacherous over the course of the search, because rain and rapid snowmelt made many small streams impassable. Search teams needed to use rope traverses to cross raging waters. Yesterday's search crews were exhausted, and additional personnel were sent out this morning.
The NH Fish and Game Department coordinated the search. Trained staff and volunteers from Mountain Rescue Service, Androscoggin Valley Search and Rescue, Pemigewasset Valley Search and Rescue and the Appalachian Mountain Club participated in the search. A Maine Forest Service helicopter conducted an aerial search on Monday afternoon, and a Vermont National Guard helicopter did an aerial search this morning.
Mason was missing for three days, having left the Appalachian Mountain Club's Pinkham Notch Visitor Center at about 8:30 on Saturday morning, intending to complete a 17-mile hike in one day. Mason was hiking alone. His plans included hiking to the summits of Mount Washington and Mount Madison, then returning to the Pinkham Notch Visitor Center.”
Homer&Marje
04-28-2009, 16:12
I meant negligent on himself, parents, and friends and himself. Not the Rangers or the rescuers. Didn't mean it to come out like that TOF
Homer&Marje
04-28-2009, 16:12
Edit last past....wait no...he can blame himself twice:D
It stops being subjective when someone goes out alone on a 17 mile day hike ill prepared, doesn’t return, and his parents call for a S&R. The S&R personnel in the Whites are some of the best to be found and several have Everest experience as well as knowing the Whites from decades of hiking. They make the decision based on experience and I’d hardly call that “too subjective”. The fact that Scott Mason was missing for 3 days also takes subjective out of this equation. Also for others to say:"...but it seems he laid his plans out and people let him go.... call it negligent on everyones part", isn't correct at all. There are no hiking police to prevent people from doing something dumb and I'm sure hikers would scream to high heaven if someone tried to stop them.
The weather and summit conditions are posted every morning at Pinkham before 7AM so when Scott Mason left there at 8:30AM he knew exactly what to expect, including the avalanche danger. Also leaving that late for a long strenuous hike shows poor judgment on Scott’s part. In the Whites this would still be considered a winter type hike and if you have a recommended group size of 4 to take turns breaking trail where there is deep unpacked snow you might be making far less than a mile per hour, alone it might be impossible. Many long winter trips start before 6AM.
Anyone familiar with the area knows the Great Gulf isn’t the place to be when there is lots of snowmelt. Being on the east side of the mountains it has a tendency to fill with snow and the sun doesn’t have a chance to melt it as fast as that on the westerly slopes. When we get several days of unusually high temperatures the snow starts to melt fast, causing problems for ill informed hikers. It isn’t unheard of for hikers to be trapped in the Great Gulf by high water and having to wait a day or so for it to drop so they could get out. I worked for the USFS years ago and spent 2 weeks working in the Great Gulf plus I have 4 winters working on for the Observatory on the summit and 45 years of hiking the area in all seasons so I consider my experience gives me some insight to comment on this incident. The fact that he walked out is great but it doesn’t change the fact that this was an extremely foolish plan for a hike. It is unfair to compare Scott to Alexander Supertramp because he had some mental issues where Scott is what most people would consider “just a dumb kid.” If you read the following I clipped from the news article you can see how many people his poor judgment put in harms way and the number of resources involved in this S&R. Whether he (or his parents) get charged for the S&R effort remains to be seen.
Very good post, we can all learn from this. You're experience is noted.
HikerRanky
04-28-2009, 16:35
you carry a big pack on day trips?
Not a big pack..... I've been carrying a GoLite Pinnacle with the following in it:
Warbonnet Blackbird hammock
OES SpinnUL MacCat Deluxe Tarp
REI 35 degree down bag
2 days worth of food
MSR Pocket Rocket
2l Platypus
Marmot Precip jacket
First aid kit
Maps and compass...
Randy
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 16:37
I have seen how circumstances are looked at, and it has nothing to do with the men and women who are out there doing the real work. For some reason we allowed the government to take common sense out of legal decisions, like the man being charged for jay walking when he was pushing 3 people out of the way of a speeding truck, or the women who was charged with declaring a false emergency, when she called 911 when a store stole 5 dollars from here, admitted it and then refused to give her her money back. Unfortunately, we have asked our government for iron clad laws, and mandatory sentencing, with no way to avoid charging someone we feel should not be charged, without setting a legal precedent, which then creates a legal loophole for others who deserve to be charged. Are there some morons that we wish we could just smack in the back of the head? Of course there are. Unfortunately, if an ADA, with no knowledge of hiking, or what really happened, takes the rescuers suggestion, and any and all outside pressure to either A. charge them, or B. let them go, and makes a decision based on what is best for their career. Want to punish Morons who make mistakes? Print a front page article, making them look like idiots, call Steven Colbert, and John Stewart, as well as any other news agency who will make these people wish they could just disappear and watch and laugh with the world at their expense.
Now, you were on a roll of making decent points that were actually relevant. Stop inserting the political garbage though! The kid was found! Take it somewhere else!:rolleyes:
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 16:41
Very good post, we can all learn from this. You're experience is noted.Excellent Point TOF
It stops being subjective when someone goes out alone on a 17 mile day hike ill prepared, doesn’t return, and his parents call for a S&R. The S&R personnel in the Whites are some of the best to be found and several have Everest experience as well as knowing the Whites from decades of hiking. They make the decision based on experience and I’d hardly call that “too subjective”. The fact that Scott Mason was missing for 3 days also takes subjective out of this equation. Also for others to say:"...but it seems he laid his plans out and people let him go.... call it negligent on everyones part", isn't correct at all. There are no hiking police to prevent people from doing something dumb and I'm sure hikers would scream to high heaven if someone tried to stop them.
The weather and summit conditions are posted every morning at Pinkham before 7AM so when Scott Mason left there at 8:30AM he knew exactly what to expect, including the avalanche danger. Also leaving that late for a long strenuous hike shows poor judgment on Scott’s part. In the Whites this would still be considered a winter type hike and if you have a recommended group size of 4 to take turns breaking trail where there is deep unpacked snow you might be making far less than a mile per hour, alone it might be impossible. Many long winter trips start before 6AM.
Anyone familiar with the area knows the Great Gulf isn’t the place to be when there is lots of snowmelt. Being on the east side of the mountains it has a tendency to fill with snow and the sun doesn’t have a chance to melt it as fast as that on the westerly slopes. When we get several days of unusually high temperatures the snow starts to melt fast, causing problems for ill informed hikers. It isn’t unheard of for hikers to be trapped in the Great Gulf by high water and having to wait a day or so for it to drop so they could get out. I worked for the USFS years ago and spent 2 weeks working in the Great Gulf plus I have 4 winters working on for the Observatory on the summit and 45 years of hiking the area in all seasons so I consider my experience gives me some insight to comment on this incident. The fact that he walked out is great but it doesn’t change the fact that this was an extremely foolish plan for a hike. It is unfair to compare Scott to Alexander Supertramp because he had some mental issues where Scott is what most people would consider “just a dumb kid.” If you read the following I clipped from the news article you can see how many people his poor judgment put in harms way and the number of resources involved in this S&R. Whether he (or his parents) get charged for the S&R effort remains to be seen.
Thanks for sharing Old Fhart. The part I put in bold echoes what I was getting at earlier, lots of others put in harms way and lots of resources used. Yes, it remains to be seen if there is a charge. Agree with it or not, there are valid reasons why there is a charge at times.
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 16:48
Thanks for sharing Old Fhart. The part I put in bold echoes what I was getting at earlier, lots of others put in harms way and lots of resources used. Yes, it remains to be seen if there is a charge. Agree with it or not, there are valid reasons why there is a charge at times.
:sunYou are so smart:bse
:sunYou are so smart:bse
I know! :p :D
Now, you were on a roll of making decent points that were actually relevant. Stop inserting the political garbage though! The kid was found! Take it somewhere else!:rolleyes:It was kinda funny that he refered to The Colbert Report and The Daily Show as news agencies. :p
Thanks for the excellent info on communications in the Whites. I use a cell phone on my hikes up here, primarily to leave a daily message at home, to avoid unneccessary worry and especially unneccessary S&R, and to allow more flexibility should my situation change. I don't depend on the cell phone to work wherever I might happen to break a leg, but I don't mind paying to leave a daily message or twice daily update when things change. Coverage along the Fundy Footpath is hit and miss. Analog works best, usually through towers in Nova Scotia on the other side of the Bay. Our 'peaks' are alot shorter and closer together though. Sounds like that sort of plan might not work so well in the Whites. Sounds like HAM is a good option. Can it be used to leave daily messages, or do you always need someone on the other end? I suppose satelitte is the future. Makes for a shrinking world though.
I would like to hear the full story though, without people getting all judgemental.
you carry a big pack on day trips?A pack big enough to carry what it takes to survive the night hunkered down.
There is a big difference between coastal VA and White Mtns in NH. Not trying to be a wise guy, but there is a lot of snow left up north.
You have to be up there on a bad day to understand. You need to be able to spend an night immobilized. Space blanket is fine. Bivy. Sleeping pad with poncho. Something to keep your body off the snow at night and be warm. Fire starter is good.
May I *unlurk* and say that this is a good thread... I like the conversation going on.
Also, glad the kid was found.
be honest with ya it happens,next he will think about his trip.ky
Isn't there a bit of a trade-off between being able to stay on top and being able to get down quickly? I don't know. I think it must depend on the mountain, and also on a persons knowledge and fitness. What is the best system for one guy may be different than the next. In theory, for anyone there is a range of solutions, until the challenge is so extreme for that individual that there is only one solution, or sometimes two, bimodal.
That fellow that flew the Atlantic did it with a single engine plane because he said an engine failure would be twice as likely with two engines, and just as fatal. Why does that name escape me. Spirit of St. Louis. Baby was kidnapped years later. Dang had to google it. Charles Lindberg of course. I'm getting way to google dependant.
rlharris
04-28-2009, 17:46
Thanks for the excellent info on communications in the Whites. I use a cell phone on my hikes up here, primarily to leave a daily message at home, to avoid unneccessary worry and especially unneccessary S&R, and to allow more flexibility should my situation change. I don't depend on the cell phone to work wherever I might happen to break a leg, but I don't mind paying to leave a daily message or twice daily update when things change. Coverage along the Fundy Footpath is hit and miss. Analog works best, usually through towers in Nova Scotia on the other side of the Bay. Our 'peaks' are alot shorter and closer together though. Sounds like that sort of plan might not work so well in the Whites. Sounds like HAM is a good option. Can it be used to leave daily messages, or do you always need someone on the other end? I suppose satelitte is the future. Makes for a shrinking world though.
Yes, one needs someone on the other end. "Broadcasting", e.g going on the air and saying "It's me, I'm here" is not allowed. However, here are a scenario that works for me.
Before I leave the van, I put out a call on one of the repeaters (the one on Canon Mtn being my first choice). Sometimes it is to a specific other ham I suspect will be listening. Other times it will be a general call. Someone usually responds. I tell them I am at the trailhead and leaving for the hike. I give them a ETA for some location along the trail at which I should be able to reach the repeater. When I get to that point, I put out my call again. This procedure is repeated as required until I get to the summit and then complete the hike out. If for some reason, I cannot or do not check in, someone knows my last known location and the time of the contact.
If I were to get into difficulty, I could always put out an emergency call at any time. Since other hams are usually monitoring the repeaters, one of them would respond. Listeners (not licensed hams, cannot legally respond) often are also on frequency and in the case of real emergency relay the information to authorities.
We (local hams) love to make contact with hikers/hams passing through the area.
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 17:47
be honest with ya it happens,next he will think about his trip.ky
This is exactly the same attitude that lead to this incident. Hikers young and old dont take this area seriously it seems! They dont say Washington has the craziest weather on Earth for nothing!
I don't agree. I don't think people should be so damned judgemental.
It always distorts the truth, what little there is of it.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1986154~Teen_hiker_lost_for_3_nights_in_NH_is_foun d_safe.html
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 17:52
Expand on why you dont agree:-?
Well, when you said "This is exactly the same attitude that lead to this incident."
We don't really know that. That may be true, and it may be wise, and it may be well intended, but it might also be distorting the truth, what little we know of it. I think it is always better to just try and find the truth and state the truth without being too judgemental about it. But there I go being judgemental.
I could just as well say that people that overgeneralize about incidents such as this is exactly the same attitude that lead to this incident. Is such wisdom really wise, if it isn't helpful. The truth is always helpful, but finding it is always difficult to impossible. There's the rub.
Common wisdom is the Bay of Fundy is 40F year round, and if you fall in you will die within 20 minutes, or something to that effect. The truth is alot more complicated, but I think it is better to seek the truth than to follow such common wisdom. Common wisdom kills just as often as it saves. It is no less fickle and no more caring than the truth. The truth is overcomplicated. Common wisdom is oversimplified. People need to try and find their own limited and flawed partial truths, somewhere in between the too extremes. I don't think people should ever go with the dumbed down wisdom people consider fit to print and safe for human consumption. People always need to dig deeper, and learn for themselves.
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 18:11
Well, when you said "This is exactly the same attitude that lead to this incident."
We don't really know that. That may be true, and it may be wise, and it may be well intended, but it might also be distorting the truth, what little we know of it. I think it is always better to just try and find the truth and state the truth without being too judgemental about it. But there I go being judgemental.
I hear ya, good point. I was more responding to the poster. I agree that the truth, we may never know. The point being that respect must be given to this area and to the position that these kind of hikes can put other peoples lives in danger.
Yeah I agree with you on that. It can be overdone though, which is the point I was trying to make.
Interesting article about what the conditions were like. Very tricky time of year.
Just another limited and distorted glimpse of the truth of course.
http://www.examiner.com/a-1986154~Te...ound_safe.html
I prefer to poke my nose out into less exciting places closer to home.
Things get interesting enough. Interesting to hear about places like the Whites though.
I've driven through a few times. It's daunting, for sure, to say the least.
Sorry. Here it is...
http://www.examiner.com/a-1986154~Teen_hiker_lost_for_3_nights_in_NH_is_foun d_safe.html
Snowleopard
04-28-2009, 19:14
From WMUR TV: Apparently he planned on hiking the AT from Pinkham Notch over Mt. Washington, Clay, Jefferson, etc. When it became too difficult, instead of retracing his steps back to Mt. Washington and Pinkham Notch, he went down the Six Husband's trail into the Great Gulf. There he kept getting blocked by streams. Eventually he made his way back up toward the ridge top where he was found.
His mistakes:
--Underestimating Mt. Washington, but everybody underestimates Mt. Washington.
--Going into the Great Gulf. This happens to many lost hikers, because that's where the prevailing winds blow you to. Winds Sat were gusting above 70.
--Not understanding the difficulties posed by the combination of deep soft snow and high streams from the snow melt. Post holing on snowshoes is probably not fun.
--Not getting enough pretrip info; he could have read trip reports on viewsfromthetop.com and gotten a pretty good idea of the difficulties of going into the Great Gulf.
What he did right:
--Not trying to cross dangerous streams.
--Not getting avalanched, whether by luck or knowledge.
--Staying warm at night with a fire.
--Presumably, keeping his head.
--Figuring out that the right thing to do under the conditions was to go UP. I suspect he figured that out pretty early, but easier said than done.
Lessons for thru hikers:
--The Presidential Range can have worse conditions than you can imagine, even in summer. (current conditions 36F, wind 66 gusts to 77; record wind for April, 231 mph)
On the whole, I think he did pretty good. He got sunburned and he hurt his leg. I hope to meet him on the trail someday.
--Walter
Desert Reprobate
04-28-2009, 19:32
I don't know what gear or clothing the kid had. I do know that when I was that age my parents couldn't tell you what kind of gear I was carrying on any specific hike. He made some mistakes, as we all have. The important thing is he survived to learn from them. I'm glad he's ok.
I don't know what gear or clothing the kid had. I do know that when I was that age my parents couldn't tell you what kind of gear I was carrying on any specific hike. He made some mistakes, as we all have. The important thing is he survived to learn from them. I'm glad he's ok.
Exactly.
A lot more parents die from eating too many potato chips their children do from making a mistake or two out in the woods.
Things worked out. No need to lay blame.
I don't know what gear or clothing the kid had. I do know that when I was that age my parents couldn't tell you what kind of gear I was carrying on any specific hike. He made some mistakes, as we all have. The important thing is he survived to learn from them. I'm glad he's ok.
let's hope he recognized the trip was a mistake and learned never to repeat it
Chaco Taco
04-28-2009, 21:17
let's hope he recognized the trip was a mistake and learned never to repeat it
So if he thruhikes does he skip it????:p
So if he thruhikes does he skip it????:p
at this time of year, 17 mile slack planned in one day, you bet :)
Desert Reprobate
04-28-2009, 21:36
I can remember more than a few " Holy Crap. That could have gone bad" situations.
Feral Bill
04-28-2009, 23:13
I can remember more than a few " Holy Crap. That could have gone bad" situations.
Same here. I've done stuff so stupid I won't even talk about it. Good luck is a good thing. I hope I'm smarter now.
Glad he survived. Us teenagers believe we are invincible.
Good to see the hiker was found safe:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090428/ap_on_re_us/us_missing_hiker
TJ aka Teej
04-29-2009, 05:44
He's lucky his "dayhike" didn't end differently.
Homer&Marje
04-29-2009, 06:04
I've never underestimated the Whites, yet. But I've been on the cusp of it a few times. 80 F in August could mean 25 F on Franconia Ridge all the way to Washington. Not to mention snow if the weather comes in, seen it.
Rivers and streams can rise in those mountains, especially this time of year, extremely fast. Feet per hour vs. inches per hour on water level is a big difference.
I will do a winter or Spring hike....but the kid just underestimated the terrain and overestimated his capabilities. He might be world class for all we know, but he just got his ass beat by the Whites. Remember, Mt. Washington has killed more people than Mt. Everest
"Scott Mason, a 17-year-old from Halifax, Mass., was spotted by searchers Tuesday morning making his way to the summit of Mount Washington, the Northeast's highest mountain. He was about a 45-minute hike from the weather observatory and its crew atop the mountain, officials said."
Sounds like he would have been just fine without the rescue. While I'm not necessarily condoning what the young man did, I would not have done it myself, I do not believe what he did was negligent. He obviously was prepared to stay out if necessary (yep a big dose of luck too, could have had much worse weather), and had the skill to get himself out when he realized he had screwed up. I will hope that he is not charged for this rescue, if the facts are, indeed, as they are reported here.
Do not construe this to be any criticism of the rescue crews, or the decision to start a rescue operation - this was perfectly correct to start looking - he was 3-days overdue.
I'm not opposed to charging something substantial (full cost seems extreme to me) for unnecessary rescue operations, or posssibly even for blatent recklessness. I do not believe the facts in this case qualify as either.
Keep in mind, at least one other person who has commented on this thread, himself was in the same area, on the same day, doing a hike only 4 miles shorter than this young man attempted. Yes, he used some better judgement, stayed lower and was with a group, but these are the type judgement calls all of us make quite frequently. We base our decisions on our past experience. This young man just got a huge dose of experience this weekend. It should be left at that - plus he has to go home and deal with his folks!!! :D
Just my $0.02 worth.
kayak karl
04-29-2009, 10:14
Glad he survived. Us teenagers believe we are invincible.
so true. i think ALL of us at 17 on this thread took chances without thinking about the consequences.:) some of us are married because of that or at the least lost a muscle car:D. just the nature of the beast:eek:
Homer&Marje
04-29-2009, 10:24
"Scott Mason, a 17-year-old from Halifax, Mass., was spotted by searchers Tuesday morning making his way to the summit of Mount Washington, the Northeast's highest mountain. He was about a 45-minute hike from the weather observatory and its crew atop the mountain, officials said."
Sounds like he would have been just fine without the rescue. While I'm not necessarily condoning what the young man did, I would not have done it myself, I do not believe what he did was negligent. He obviously was prepared to stay out if necessary (yep a big dose of luck too, could have had much worse weather), and had the skill to get himself out when he realized he had screwed up. I will hope that he is not charged for this rescue, if the facts are, indeed, as they are reported here.
Do not construe this to be any criticism of the rescue crews, or the decision to start a rescue operation - this was perfectly correct to start looking - he was 3-days overdue.
I'm not opposed to charging something substantial (full cost seems extreme to me) for unnecessary rescue operations, or posssibly even for blatent recklessness. I do not believe the facts in this case qualify as either.
Keep in mind, at least one other person who has commented on this thread, himself was in the same area, on the same day, doing a hike only 4 miles shorter than this young man attempted. Yes, he used some better judgement, stayed lower and was with a group, but these are the type judgement calls all of us make quite frequently. We base our decisions on our past experience. This young man just got a huge dose of experience this weekend. It should be left at that - plus he has to go home and deal with his folks!!! :D
Just my $0.02 worth.
Wish I had said all that. Best post yet pointing out how paying for the S&R should be judged.
Wish I had said all that. Best post yet pointing out how paying for the S&R should be judged.
It is always judged, not everyone that is rescued up there has to pay.
Snowleopard
04-30-2009, 10:21
Here is some more info from the Boston Globe.
Scott Mason, of Halifax, Mass., headed up the popular mountain for a long day hike on Saturday, but decided to take a shortcut down after spraining his ankle.
He chose a route he had discussed with the staff at the Appalachian Mountain Club lodge where he began his hike.
"They had information that it was clear at the time," he said in a telephone interview Wednesday.
But that emergency route led him into unexpected trouble: rising water and deep snow caused by unseasonably warm weather.
"When I got down there, the rivers were much more rapid than should have been," he said. He decided instead to cross earlier than he had planned, putting him in an area of no trails.
Wearing plastic bags inside his boots to keep his feet dry, he began trying to find a way out. Mason said even though he was stranded, he wasn't lost because he had hiked the area before and recognized the landmarks.
He sank several times into mountain runoff that was hidden beneath waist-deep snow.
"The runoff was about 2 1/2 feet deep and probably running 30 mph," he said. "The guides confirmed I could have gotten sucked in if I had fallen all the way in, and I would have been gone."
Saturday and Sunday nights, Mason crawled beneath snow-covered pine trees and hunkered down in a bivvy sack, a waterproof sleeping bag shell. To keep warm, he started fires with a hand sanitzer gel.
"You can put it right on what you are burning, and even on the snow you can make a fire," he said. "I was able to make a fire just because I ripped down some big evergreen branches."
By Sunday afternoon, his snow-covered route down still blocked by raging runoff, Mason decided he had to go back up the mountain.
On Monday, he tried signaling a helicopter, waving his hiking poles and reflective bivvy sack. But the crew was focused below his level, more concerned that he might have tried to take a trail across a river and been swept away.
"It was a little disappointing," he said.
He found a large crevice in a rock that night that was partially protected from the wind, built a higher windscreen with rocks and slept until well after daylight Tuesday, when he resumed his slow trek toward the summit to reach the weather observatory.
"I was going to hike to the observatory and kind of knock on their door and try to get some hot cocoa and a ride down," he said.
That's when he and a search team spotted each other.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2009/04/30/stranded_nh_hiker_brings_lesson_home_for_scouts/http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2009/04/30/stranded_nh_hiker_brings_lesson_home_for_scouts/
There is also a video at that URL.
"They [AMC staff] had information that it was clear at the time," This is likely a misunderstanding either by Scott, AMC staff or the reporter. The ridge tops were likely pretty clear, but not the Great Gulf. Conditions below the ridge seem to have been worse than I would have imagined. I would have expected soft deep snow, but to be honest the fast moving streams under deep snow would have caught me by surprise.
What he did -- drop below treeline when you run into trouble -- is usually the right thing to do, but not necessarily at this time of year. If the temperatures had been normal for April, maybe his 'shortcut' would have worked, but I don't think it would have been easy. Any opinions from anybody up there more familiar with 'normal' conditions.
I'm glad it turned out well, and I hope to run into him on the trails someday.
--Walter
jersey joe
04-30-2009, 10:41
I will hope that he is not charged for this rescue, if the facts are, indeed, as they are reported here.
Based on what I have read thusfar, I don't believe Scott should be charged for the S&R.
leeki pole
04-30-2009, 10:45
Back when I was 35 and bulletproof, I dayhiked a 25 mile loop in Cave Creek in Arizona. I had nothing but a light daypack with lunch and 2 liters of water and a map. I was the only car in the parking lot. Once I got out about 14 miles, I got to thinking that this is really stupid. I've got a wife and two kids, nobody knows where I am. Since then, I carry a bag, tarp, stove, two days of food, map and compass, first aid kit and cell phone and always leave my itinerary with somebody even on a short dayhike.
Chaco Taco
04-30-2009, 12:01
Here is some more info from the Boston Globe.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2009/04/30/stranded_nh_hiker_brings_lesson_home_for_scouts/http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2009/04/30/stranded_nh_hiker_brings_lesson_home_for_scouts/
There is also a video at that URL.
"They [AMC staff] had information that it was clear at the time," This is likely a misunderstanding either by Scott, AMC staff or the reporter. The ridge tops were likely pretty clear, but not the Great Gulf. Conditions below the ridge seem to have been worse than I would have imagined. I would have expected soft deep snow, but to be honest the fast moving streams under deep snow would have caught me by surprise.
What he did -- drop below treeline when you run into trouble -- is usually the right thing to do, but not necessarily at this time of year. If the temperatures had been normal for April, maybe his 'shortcut' would have worked, but I don't think it would have been easy. Any opinions from anybody up there more familiar with 'normal' conditions.
I'm glad it turned out well, and I hope to run into him on the trails someday.
--Walter
Great article. This kid sounds like he has a good head on his shoulder.
The Old Fhart
04-30-2009, 14:30
"They [AMC staff] had information that it was clear at the time," This is likely a misunderstanding either by Scott, AMC staff or the reporter. The ridge tops were likely pretty clear, but not the Great Gulf. Conditions below the ridge seem to have been worse than I would have imagined. I would have expected soft deep snow, but to be honest the fast moving streams under deep snow would have caught me by surprise...."The AMC at Pinkham was reporting avalanche danger and there was an avalanche in Tuckerman's Ravine on 4-25-09 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RW_ekQSiPTA), just days before Scott went on his hike. The snow won't be out of the protected eastern slopes until about late June and skiers will be in Tuckerman's on week-ends until the snow leaves. Carter Notch has ice in caves between the huge boulders that could last most of the summer. It would appear that there was a huge misunderstanding about the conditions in the mountains and this photo taken by the Mount Washington Observatory today clearly shows how the eastern side of the mountains, even up to above treeline, is still covered with lots of snow. http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=6185&d=1241115852
I have been on lower trails in May where there was still 2-3 feet of packed snow and ice on the trails while the woods on either side of the trail were clear.
Snowleopard
04-30-2009, 17:22
Hey, 'The Old Fhart', thanks for the info and nice picture. --Walter
chrishowe11
04-30-2009, 21:00
i got cell service on the top of jefferson with AT&T
Alaskanhkr23
05-01-2009, 11:47
IM sorry to say but if he had no tent,sleeping,bag and no survival training it doesent look good,I took a one month survival course in northern maine,just in case bad things happen ,JACK MOUNTAIN SURViVAL,And that still doesent prepaire u for alot of things
IM sorry to say but if he had no tent,sleeping,bag and no survival training it doesent look good,I took a one month survival course in northern maine,just in case bad things happen ,JACK MOUNTAIN SURViVAL,And that still doesent prepaire u for alot of things
what doesnt look good?? he was found, actually on his way to the observatory atop washington to get himself out. he did have a bivy with him as per one of the articles and had some training of some survival skills if you read the article.
Alaskanhkr23
05-01-2009, 11:52
oh wow then thats me not reading HA!! good for him
Alaskanhkr23
05-01-2009, 11:53
WOW i feel stupid now,see what not read doese
Homer&Marje
05-01-2009, 13:22
WOW i feel stupid now,see what not read doese
Makes grammar and spelling impossible?:D
Do it all the time....but usually I come in with a comment that has been asked by a moderator just prior not to be brought up.....call it timing :rolleyes: