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ridgewalker777
06-09-2004, 16:41
Numerous scientific studies have shown how bad hydrogenated oils are for the health--arteriosclerosis, and free radical damage are likely especially when the body is under a lot of stress, through hiking. Food producers love the stuff because it never goes bad--try leaving margarine outside--see if any critters have any interest in nibbling it--I doubt it, the elements would not break it down like any natural fat...Please folks try to avoid this "plastic" fat--butter is better, even lard is better. It's in a lot more foods than you'd think. A quick internet search will clue you in on how bad it is...

PKH
06-09-2004, 17:09
Agreed! This is one of the true poisons of our modern North American diet. All of this is a reaction to our irrational fear of fat. Generally the big enemy ( at least in Canada and America, is sugar, sugar, and more sugar. Of course, this is somwhat irrelevant to a hard core throughhiker's diet. What ever gets you through the week is great.

Cheers (in moderation of course)

PKH

Groucho
06-09-2004, 17:29
Numerous scientific studies have shown how bad hydrogenated oils are for the health--arteriosclerosis, and free radical damage are likely especially when the body is under a lot of stress, through hiking. Food producers love the stuff because it never goes bad--try leaving margarine outside--see if any critters have any interest in nibbling it--I doubt it, the elements would not break it down like any natural fat...Please folks try to avoid this "plastic" fat--butter is better, even lard is better. It's in a lot more foods than you'd think. A quick internet search will clue you in on how bad it is...

Strange. Back a couple decades ago, people were up in arms about "vegetable lards", palm oil, coconut oil, etc. Manufacturers started using hydrogenated vegetable oil (Crisco type stuff) instead; at least, the use increased. The problem with hydrogenated vegetable oils is that it has the fluidity of a saturated fat. The trans C-C bond lies flat in a triglyceride, giving it a higher melting point, like a saturated fat. Check out Crisco at room temp. Supposedly, this stuff is also hard to metabolize.

This stuff is ubiquitous in today's foods; check out Snicker bar ingredients. Smart Balance margarine is advertised as having no trans fatty acids. I don't think all the evidence is in on how bad this stuff is, but I'd avoid it whenever possible. Luckily I only like Snickers when I'm hiking.

stieg
06-09-2004, 18:36
If I remember correctly, it's only the partially hydrogenated oils that are bad. This is according to Protien Power (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553574752/102-6037735-4746540?v=glance).

I don't remember the exact details, but I do remember that part. I could look it up when I get home.

Groucho
06-09-2004, 19:06
If I remember correctly, it's only the partially hydrogenated oils that are bad. This is according to Protien Power (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0553574752/102-6037735-4746540?v=glance).

I don't remember the exact details, but I do remember that part. I could look it up when I get home.

Yes and no. The completely hydrogenated fats do not contain trans double bonds (I should have typed C=C instead of C-C). The cis configuration of the fatty acid chain has a kink in it, thus increasing its fluidity. The trans bond does not. This is evidently not the only problem with trans fat; the body is not able to handle so much of it. Note that completely hydrogenated fats are not recommended in large amounts.

At this site (http://www.mycustompak.com/healthNotes/Food_Guide/trans_fats.htm):

"Trans fats are produced through hydrogenation, a chemical process by which hydrogen is added to unsaturated fatty acids. Hydrogenation converts the unsaturated bonds in the oil into saturated bonds, creating a solid, spreadable fat with increased shelf life. Hydrogenation gets rid of some double bonds, but incompletely transforms others. These double bonds are transformed from the natural “cis” configuration to the “trans” configuration. Research indicates that eating trans fats is associated with an increased risk for heart disease."

I am not a diet faddist, but I take this seriously; I started eating butter instead of margarine. Like it better anyway.

grrickar
06-09-2004, 19:24
Smart Balance is all I use. If you read Men's Health magazine they laud the fact it has no trans-fats, and is made with a blend of natural oils. I know one of the oils is olive oil, which has been studied quite a bit on it's benefits.

smokymtnsteve
06-09-2004, 19:34
organic extra-virgin olive oil for me

organic canola for the pancakes

grrickar
06-09-2004, 23:43
...is high fructose corn syrup. It is a staple of many foods, and is a cheap sweetener that the industry happened upon several years ago. Now that scientists have studied it, they are finding some interesting things like the fact that it tricks your body into thinking you really have not eaten much, so when consuming things with this as the main ingredient you tend to over eat because you do not feel full. Look at non-diet sodas and jucies, and you will find that most list this as one of the main ingredients. My daughter is 4, and finding juices without this added is not easy. Odd since you would think apple juice, etc would be naturally sweet enough as it were. Best to avoid the stuff as much as possible.
http://www.menshealth.com/features/mensconf/docs/doc31.html

stieg
06-09-2004, 23:56
My daughter is 4, and finding juices without this added is not easy. Odd since you would think apple juice, etc would be naturally sweet enough as it were. Best to avoid the stuff as much as possible.
http://www.menshealth.com/features/mensconf/docs/doc31.html

All sugars are bad, especially in quantities typically consumed in this country. Even honey, fructose, etc. All "natural" fruit juices contain so much sugar (frutcose in this case) that they are nearly identical to a coke (even though the coke is High Fructose Corn Syrup, it's still sugar to your body and brain). Fruit juices just aren't good for you, even kids. Too much concentrated sugar. Think of fruit juice as mainlining a dozen apples at once (but without the beneficial fiber) and you get the picture.

I'm hypoglycemic, so I have to be extra careful. By reading labels on everything, I have learned that nearly every commercial food in this country has sugar in it. Bad, bad, bad.

Texas Dreamer
06-10-2004, 09:22
Myself as a case study:
Last August I stopped eating refined sugars almost entirely. At first it was ALL refined sugars, then I had to find a happy medium in order to keep going with it, and so I don't worry so much about say, ketchup. During this time I have lost over 40lbs--with no other significant changes to my diet. I haven't stopped eating fruit, but I haven't had any juice--it's just too hard (and expensive) to find without added sugars.
Kind of opens the eyes, huh?

ridgewalker777
06-10-2004, 15:20
I really appreciate the additional scientific replies to this thread. I was dreading the typical "hike your hike" and I'll hike mine...I was talking with Mr. Cochrane of "Beyond a Century" in Greenville, Maine yesterday--they carry hundreds of fitness and high-performance products--and he singled out sugar in most all forms as a major physical stressor. I guess I'll have to go light on raisins and apple cider which I consume too much of. Most of the AYCE breakfasts use lots of shortening to fry their pancakes, etc. When a body needs replentishing through rest and easier to digest foods, it shouldn't be overloaded...

tarbubble
06-10-2004, 22:53
i've been trying to cut the partially hydrogenated oils out of our household diet and it's extremely difficult. we parked ourselves in the cracker aisle one night (no low-carb diets for us, thank you) and read the ingredients on every single style - not one of them was trans-fat free. so now i buy crackers at the local vegan/health food store, because none of the brands they carry uses the P.H. oils.

if you have a Trader Joe's near you, they carry a lot of non-sweetened juices. my favorite is a blend of carrot and tropical juices. they also have wonderful fruit leathers with no sweeteners added. i consume WAY too much sugar, i know it's a huge problem i have. i have stopped ordering sodas when i go out to eat, and for me that's a big step forward. since i started drinking skim milk and stopped drinking soda every day i dropped around 15 pounds. i know sugar keeps me from feeling my best, but it's a really tough thing to quit. my husband also has some very early indicators of possible future diabetes, so just to be on the safe side i need to help him cut the sugars out as well.

and yeah, i despise high fructose corn syrup. it's in too many things, and that always makes me suspicious. that's also why Mexican orange soda tastes soooo much better than American orange soda - in Mexico they use real sugar. ohhh, i'll have to fight the temptation to pick up a bottle of Jarritos at the market tonight...

Happy
06-11-2004, 00:13
EVERONE should read the "South Beach Diet" Book and adhere to it's principles!!!

pvtmorriscsa
06-11-2004, 02:04
Howdy All,

If the concern is to lose weight, than exercise more, and take in fewer calories. Pretty simple really.
As for fat being good or fat being bad. The proponents of both schools of thought remind me of the same people that said there would be massive starvation in the US by 1990 or that there be an ice age by the year 2000.
Makes me wonder if they really know what they are talking about.

Groucho
06-11-2004, 07:40
...is high fructose corn syrup. It is a staple of many foods, and is a cheap sweetener that the industry happened upon several years ago. Now that scientists have studied it, they are finding some interesting things like the fact that it tricks your body into thinking you really have not eaten much, so when consuming things with this as the main ingredient you tend to over eat because you do not feel full. Look at non-diet sodas and jucies, and you will find that most list this as one of the main ingredients. My daughter is 4, and finding juices without this added is not easy. Odd since you would think apple juice, etc would be naturally sweet enough as it were. Best to avoid the stuff as much as possible.
http://www.menshealth.com/features/mensconf/docs/doc31.html


What is bound fructose?

ridgewalker777
06-26-2004, 13:12
I hiked thru the Whites the last few days and found hydrogenated oils to be ubiquitous. I asked for butter for my bread and was served the "yellow death". The peanut butters in the huts and lodges are hydrogenated the non-dairy creamer is full of the stuff. I hate to sound like a shrill chicken little, but how is it that an environmentally-dedicated group that spends much of its extra income on enjoying the outdoors, is not concerned about substances science has found causes impairment and damage to health? Let's keep dropping notes to the businesses that rely on our money to function.

Frosty
06-26-2004, 14:42
I hiked thru the Whites the last few days and found hydrogenated oils ... I asked for butter for my bread and was served the "yellow death"...peanut butter in the huts and lodges are hydrogenated the non-dairy creamer is full of the stuff.

how is it that an environmentally-dedicated group that spends much of its extra income on enjoying the outdoors, is not concerned about substances science has found causes impairment and damage to health? How is it? How about because the AMC charter has nothing to do with your heath, or the whales, or imported Japanese steel, or quack doctors, or Janet Jackson's boob, or any other thing people get over-excited about. Whether you eat butter or margine will have little effect on the environment of the north woods, and is not the AMC's problem. (God, I don't believe I'm defending the AMC!)

So you don't like non-dairy creamer in the high huts. What do you want? Fresh cream? This will help the environment how? Having them run generators for more refrigeration? If you don't like nondairy creamers, drink your coffee black. For that matter, eat a piece of bread WITHOUT butter or margerine. You're in the woods, not in your favorite yuppie restaurant.

The main anti-environmental thing the AMC does is not sering you nondairy creamer, but rescuing people, tearing up the woods with litters, sleds and helicopters. If you eat too much sugar and fat, and have a heart attack in the woods, have the decency to crawl off the trail and die rather than using your cell phone to call for help. Your decomposing body will do more for the enviroment than forcing the AMC to stock all your favorite foodstuffs.

End of rant,

Pencil Pusher
06-27-2004, 00:42
Okely dokely...

A few years back I remember some health nut warning us of, "...sugar, salt and saturated fat." The big three. Holy hell, try walking into a grocery store and not buying these three on a consistent basis. It's like 2/3 of the store is filled with this crap.

I wish I had better will power, I'm not much good at staying away from sugar. Chocolate especially.

MisterSweetie
06-27-2004, 01:21
I wish I had better will power....Honestly, my problem is not will power. The main problem I have is actually knowing what to fix!! I guess that sounds silly, but it's true. The second problem is finding the time to be able to fix what I know I should eat. I really wish I had a personal dietitian.

judgeh
06-27-2004, 06:27
I've gone to my nutritionist on and off for the past six years. She's been a great help. With her advice, plus exercise, my total weight loss so far is 85 pounds (includes an eating relapse three years ago when my knee collapsed and had to be replaced).

As I see it, the greatest values of a nutritionist are these: to get you to honestly face up to what you're consuming, to read labels and to eat as few prepared foods as possible. This is all commonsense stuff, but when you pay someone to tell you, it seems to stick in the old noggin. When I go off the nutritional standard, I have her voice in my mind telling me I've screwed up.

The "one day at a time" philosophy also seems to help! It's not a "diet". It's the rest of my life. I'm 6' 3", weigh 219 and feeling stronger every day. At the age of 52, that's way cool! :D

Frosty
06-27-2004, 07:26
The "one day at a time" philosophy also seems to help! It's not a "diet". It's the rest of my life.This is the path to success IMO. In treating it as a "diet" you give yourself the message that this stuff is okay, but not right now. Someday you'll go back to eating it and you will yearn for the stuff.

Treating it as a lifestyle change, you say to yourself, "This is something that is not good for me and I shouldn't be eating it."

When you lose something forever, whether it be a wrecked car or wrecked knee or something more serious, you grieve, rail at the unfairness of it, and eventually get over it and get on with your life without it.

I think you have the right idea. If I could just practice what I preach, so would I.