View Full Version : Does anybody here leave the stove home?
I was wondering if any of my fellow whiteblazers didn't cook food on the trail. If thats the case i'd love to see what a days food menu looks like.
Garlic didn't carry a stove on his thru. Post him for advice/suggestions.
garlic08
04-28-2009, 16:07
I haven't carried a stove on my last three long hikes. Favorite cookless foods are: homemade muesli (rolled oats, walnuts, raisins with powdered milk), tortillas, cheese, peanut butter, instant mashed potatoes, ramen noodles, crackers, fig newtons, bagels, cashews, fresh fruit and veggies, deli sandwiches, leftover pizza, etc. Sausage and jerky is good for meat eaters.
I don't think I save much weight (definitely a little), but I do save a lot of time and resupply hassle. I just read a post in a first aid thread about a scald burn--I've seen that, too, and I think stoveless is a little safer.
Im a veggie so this is great. Do you eat the ramen dry or soak it?
I have hiked many times without my stoves and well no big deal but I miss my hot coffee a got hot meal in winter hiking.ky
That is a good point about burns. Also cuts, if using a blade of some sort.
I don't mind so much doing without hot food. It is hot tea that I need most.
Actually its fire that I need the most. Tea is just an excuse. :D
I leave the stove behind on weekend hikes in warm weather
I sometimes leave the Kelly Kettle home on shorter day-hikes, but always bring a lighter and a metal mug. Don't always use it. Lemonaid powder is a great option because it works great both hot and cold.
I am still batting around the idea of a Great Divide Trail (Canada) hike in late July or so. (Depends on finances/if I find a job I actually like).
Anyway, just to KISS and avoid any fuel issues, I am probably going to go stoveless. Why? Basically for reasons Garlic stated. HEET is apparently hard to find in Canada and I'd rather not futz around with canisters, mailing them out, etc.
If you go stoveless you might still bring a lighter and a metal mug. Even if you eat all your meals cold, and besides the emergency uses, its nice to have the simple pleasure of cup of bark tea using 3 small rocks, a mug, and a lighter. That's the main thing for me. Of course I'm a total pyro, but I think everyone enjoys a little flame now and then.
Anyone have a better idea for short dayhikes than a metal mug. Something a little less bulky? A lighter takes up no space at all, but even a small mug is a pain in the ass. I would like something that fits in my pocket. Not a flask though. I need to make tea in it.
I was wondering about tinfoil, or something just a little thicker. Wrong thread, I know.
Im a veggie so this is great. Do you eat the ramen dry or soak it?
Soak for 15 to 30 minutes, drain and add whatever you want. Works well.
karoberts
04-28-2009, 18:52
I am a stoveless vegetarian.
Here is what a typical day might look like:
8 AM: honeybun
10 AM: candy bar
12 PM: pretzels, cheese, bagel with peanut butter, bag of m&ms
2 PM: almonds, fruit roll-up
4 PM: candy bar
6 PM: cheese and bagel with mustard, cookies, yogurt covered raisins
8 PM: pretzels
I expect to lose at least 10 lbs in the first two weeks of a long distance hike.
For a stoveless vegetarian meal, Fantastic Foods Hummus is awesome. Just add water and olive oil. yum!
garlic08
04-28-2009, 19:32
Soak for 15 to 30 minutes, drain and add whatever you want. Works well.
I've never tried soaking it. Good idea. I eat it like a big, 300 calorie cracker that only costs a few dimes.
That hummus is great, when you can find it, which is very rare (the Coop in Hanover was about the only place on the AT where I could).
One other advantage of going stoveless is that it seems easier to resupply from small markets and not doing mail drops. You might have to put up with hot dog buns and peanut butter for a day or two, but it keeps you on the trail and not waiting three days for the PO to open on Tuesday, July 5, for instance.
garlic08
04-28-2009, 19:37
I am a stoveless vegetarian.
Here is what a typical day might look like:
8 AM: honeybun
10 AM: candy bar
12 PM: pretzels, cheese, bagel with peanut butter, bag of m&ms
2 PM: almonds, fruit roll-up
4 PM: candy bar
6 PM: cheese and bagel with mustard, cookies, yogurt covered raisins
8 PM: pretzels
I expect to lose at least 10 lbs in the first two weeks of a long distance hike.
That's almost exactly my "meal" schedule--a few hundred calories every couple of hours. I can't handle the sweet stuff, but if you like sugar, it's a great way to satisfy the sweet tooth!
After you loose that weight, do you increase your intake, or does your metabolism kind of level off?
CrumbSnatcher
04-28-2009, 19:54
i always bounced it up ahead a couple months, when it cools off up north.
karoberts
04-28-2009, 20:30
After you loose that weight, do you increase your intake, or does your metabolism kind of level off?[/quote]
It just kind of levels off and I stop losing.
I am still batting around the idea of a Great Divide Trail (Canada) hike in late July or so. (Depends on finances/if I find a job I actually like).
Anyway, just to KISS and avoid any fuel issues, I am probably going to go stoveless. Why? Basically for reasons Garlic stated. HEET is apparently hard to find in Canada and I'd rather not futz around with canisters, mailing them out, etc.
Chafing fuel is available in Canada. Gel and liquid.
http://www.supplierlist.com/product_view/scientific/105821/100409/Magic_Flame_Chafing_Fuel_-_Gel.htm
.
Anyone have a better idea for short dayhikes than a metal mug. Something a little less bulky? A lighter takes up no space at all, but even a small mug is a pain in the ass. I would like something that fits in my pocket. Not a flask though. I need to make tea in it.
I was wondering about tinfoil, or something just a little thicker. Wrong thread, I know.
You could use a stainless steel bag/pouch.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-bags/=1ncn83
After you loose that weight, do you increase your intake, or does your metabolism kind of level off?
It just kind of levels off and I stop losing.[/quote]
Actually your metabolism doesn't "level off". What happens is your body weight drops until it reaches whatever weight your metabolism is at. More technically your maintenance weight is reached and you enter a range where you are neither in a caloric surplus or deficit.
just my 2 nutritional cents
karoberts
04-28-2009, 21:47
It just kind of levels off and I stop losing.
Actually your metabolism doesn't "level off". What happens is your body weight drops until it reaches whatever weight your metabolism is at. More technically your maintenance weight is reached and you enter a range where you are neither in a caloric surplus or deficit.
just my 2 nutritional cents[/quote]
That's good to know, thank you.
kayak karl
04-28-2009, 21:57
Trek, No-Name and Watchman left NOBO this year 1/1/09 with no stoves. don't know what they eat, but they're still out there.
take-a-knee
04-28-2009, 22:54
I ran into a WB'er named Lumbar on the BMT a couple of weeks ago, he had just finished the Pinhoti (and the FL Trail before that) . He said he only ate no cook foods.
A warm meal is such a pick me up sometimes though. I like the no cook meal idea but at the same time I enjoy cooking outdoors especially in the winter. Then again sometimes it is nothing but a hassle.
You could use a stainless steel bag/pouch.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#stainless-steel-bags/=1ncn83Thanks Zelph. One could go with a 4" or 6" width maybe, and cut the length down to whatever height you want. Slide into cargo pocket or back pocket in my shorts. Way cool.
It just kind of levels off and I stop losing.
Actually your metabolism doesn't "level off". What happens is your body weight drops until it reaches whatever weight your metabolism is at. More technically your maintenance weight is reached and you enter a range where you are neither in a caloric surplus or deficit.
just my 2 nutritional cents[/QUOTE]I've been curious about this also. I think it is highly correlated with surface area and with age, but other things must factor in some, even within a single individual. I'm not sure it is that easy to separate one's basal metabolism completely from your activities on top of that. Even if your not digesting food, or repairing muscles, there might be some hormones and stuff that come into play depending on what's going on with your life. Sometimes I slow down when I diet, but in other ways I seem to have more energy. Just starting to lose weight though so I am curious to see what my basal metabolism is like when I get down to where I want to be.
A warm meal is such a pick me up sometimes though. I like the no cook meal idea but at the same time I enjoy cooking outdoors especially in the winter. Then again sometimes it is nothing but a hassle.I think this summer I will try cold meals, but still a minimal system for making hot tea. Wouldn't have to be fast either. Tealight tin with a vegetable oil wick maybe. Maybe 15-30 minutes to heat up and steep 250ml to 500ml of Chai. Other foods and drinks could be mostly for eating cold, but some could also be served hot for a change on a cold rainy of foggy day.
Foods/Drinks that are good cold, but could also be heated:
Skim Milk Powder
Lemonaid Powder
Honey
Tea
Trail mix of mostly raisins, currants, almonds, and some oats.
(Enough oats so it is good served hot, but not so many that it can be eaten dry, along with lots to drink.)
Actually your metabolism doesn't "level off". What happens is your body weight drops until it reaches whatever weight your metabolism is at. More technically your maintenance weight is reached and you enter a range where you are neither in a caloric surplus or deficit.
just my 2 nutritional centsI've been curious about this also. I think it is highly correlated with surface area and with age, but other things must factor in some, even within a single individual. I'm not sure it is that easy to separate one's basal metabolism completely from your activities on top of that. Even if your not digesting food, or repairing muscles, there might be some hormones and stuff that come into play depending on what's going on with your life. Sometimes I slow down when I diet, but in other ways I seem to have more energy. Just starting to lose weight though so I am curious to see what my basal metabolism is like when I get down to where I want to be.[/quote]
Well your BMR or Basal Metabolic Rate isn't correlated to your weight. By definition your BMR is the metabolic function of ones body needed to run the body while sleeping or in a coma. So this means beat your heart and function your organs and stuff. As your weight drops, holding all else constant your BMR will also drop. But typically when a person looses weight its due to an increased activity level compounded with a special diet of some sort. Take a look at Michael Phelps for example. His BMR during training would probably be around 3500 calories. This means he burns more in his sleep than most of us do in a day with excercise.... Also, person A has more muscle than person B than all else equal person A's BMR will be higher because the muscle has to be maintained by the body so it doesn't wither away. This is why diet alone can only reduce your bodyfat levels to a certain point for a guy thats around 10%. But we want six pack abs which means we need to increase our muscle mass so that our BMRs increase thus increasing the "temp of the fire" while sleeping.
Chew on that!!!
the goat
04-29-2009, 10:09
lots of granola, bagels, tuna, peanut butter, snickers, cheese, peperoni, bread, fritos, cliff/ protein bars. i'll never carry a stove on a long hike again.
Well your BMR or Basal Metabolic Rate isn't correlated to your weight. By definition your BMR is the metabolic function of ones body needed to run the body while sleeping or in a coma. So this means beat your heart and function your organs and stuff. As your weight drops, holding all else constant your BMR will also drop. But typically when a person looses weight its due to an increased activity level compounded with a special diet of some sort. Take a look at Michael Phelps for example. His BMR during training would probably be around 3500 calories. This means he burns more in his sleep than most of us do in a day with excercise.... Also, person A has more muscle than person B than all else equal person A's BMR will be higher because the muscle has to be maintained by the body so it doesn't wither away. This is why diet alone can only reduce your bodyfat levels to a certain point for a guy thats around 10%. But we want six pack abs which means we need to increase our muscle mass so that our BMRs increase thus increasing the "temp of the fire" while sleeping.
Chew on that!!! I was always somewhat dubious of it being correlated with weight also. I think surface area is a somewhat better measure than weight. All living cells require energy though, but some more than others. I would imagine fat cells use less than muscle cells, but bone uses very little also, I would think, and you have proportionally more bone as you get leaner. There is a correlation with weight, but I think surface area is better. For one think heat loss is related to surface area, though skin temperature can vary also. Like you say, lots of stuff going on.
On the subject of weight loss, how do you lose weight without losing muscle? Is working out to build muscle mass enough? Perhaps sometimes it isn't. The reason is that the body doesn't build muscle just to use the muscle. It also builds muscle as a means of storing protien. If you are dieting, even on a low fat and high protien diet, even if you are exercising, you might still lose some muscle mass. I'm kinda struggling with that now. I am dieting and walking and running my way back down to a good running weight. I would like to do it while maintaining and even gaining some strength and muscle mass, particularly in my legs. It appears to depend on how fast I want to get down. I'm going to start some weight training and speed work also. That might help. Cheers.
middle to middle
04-29-2009, 12:13
You guys are way tougher than I am.
Gray Blazer
04-29-2009, 12:16
I am a stoveless vegetarian.
Here is what a typical day might look like:
8 AM: honeybun
10 AM: candy bar
12 PM: pretzels, cheese, bagel with peanut butter, bag of m&ms
2 PM: almonds, fruit roll-up
4 PM: candy bar
6 PM: cheese and bagel with mustard, cookies, yogurt covered raisins
8 PM: pretzels
I expect to lose at least 10 lbs in the first two weeks of a long distance hike.
Now that was funny.
Gray Blazer
04-29-2009, 12:19
Did you ever read the ramen pack? It's supposed to be 2 servings.
I heard about a guy who only carried trail mix on his thru. It seems to me constipation would be an issue there.
Did you ever read the ramen pack? It's supposed to be 2 servings.
Odd, I never knew it was supposed to be two servings. But it is..
sheepdog
04-29-2009, 13:13
I knew a guy who added water to his supper meal at lunch time. He then put the packet between his back and his backpack. It was ready to eat at supper time. Not real hot but hydrated and edible.
You have to do strength training with the cardio. I do cardio 5 to 6 days a week, I also do weight lifting 3 to 4 days, along with 2 trainer appts a week that are for core strength/balance and as well include weights.
The strength training builds lean muscle.
When you look at long distance runners they are often very, very thin with wiry muscles - from all that running.
According to the scale I have lost 28 lbs since mid-January. Yet I look like I have lost more - the first two months I barely lost weight as I put on lean muscle - I had to hit a point where the scales tilted in my favor. I realized that if all I did was diet and do carido I would lose weight fast, but neither would I gain strength - and those lean muscles burn a lot more calories at rest ;-)
On the subject of weight loss, how do you lose weight without losing muscle? Is working out to build muscle mass enough? Perhaps sometimes it isn't. The reason is that the body doesn't build muscle just to use the muscle. It also builds muscle as a means of storing protien. If you are dieting, even on a low fat and high protien diet, even if you are exercising, you might still lose some muscle mass. I'm kinda struggling with that now. I am dieting and walking and running my way back down to a good running weight. I would like to do it while maintaining and even gaining some strength and muscle mass, particularly in my legs. It appears to depend on how fast I want to get down. I'm going to start some weight training and speed work also. That might help. Cheers.
I was always somewhat dubious of it being correlated with weight also. I think surface area is a somewhat better measure than weight. All living cells require energy though, but some more than others. I would imagine fat cells use less than muscle cells, but bone uses very little also, I would think, and you have proportionally more bone as you get leaner. There is a correlation with weight, but I think surface area is better. For one think heat loss is related to surface area, though skin temperature can vary also. Like you say, lots of stuff going on.
On the subject of weight loss, how do you lose weight without losing muscle? Is working out to build muscle mass enough? Perhaps sometimes it isn't. The reason is that the body doesn't build muscle just to use the muscle. It also builds muscle as a means of storing protien. If you are dieting, even on a low fat and high protien diet, even if you are exercising, you might still lose some muscle mass. I'm kinda struggling with that now. I am dieting and walking and running my way back down to a good running weight. I would like to do it while maintaining and even gaining some strength and muscle mass, particularly in my legs. It appears to depend on how fast I want to get down. I'm going to start some weight training and speed work also. That might help. Cheers.
You cant loose weight with out loosing muscle. The best you can hope for is only loosing a little and this would be with perfect nutrition, excercise, rest, and genetics. This is because the only way to loose weight is to be at a caloric deficit. The only way to build muscle or gain weight is to be at a caloric surplus. So its impossible to loose weight and gain muscle at the same time. This doesn't mean that you cant loose weight and get stronger and "look " like you have gained muscle via increased definition.....
Lol...oh yes you can do that. And to add muscle you do NOT have to eat more. You just have to eat wisely.
There is of course a difference between guys building massive muscles for show and building lean muscle that will fire up your body inside. Guys building muscle for show must increase their protein intake considerably to do it - though protein needn't be high in calories or fat. One can chug whey protein drinks all day - they are low in calories.
The problem about dieting and doing just cardio is eventually you will hit a wall where you cannot lose more weight. Strength training on the other hand will amp up your metabolism and help you have a higher metabolism. It also helps build bone density which is SO important as we age.
And "getting stronger" = muscles being used and built.
Lol...oh yes you can do that. And to add muscle you do NOT have to eat more. You just have to eat wisely.
There is of course a difference between guys building massive muscles for show and building lean muscle that will fire up your body inside. Guys building muscle for show must increase their protein intake considerably to do it - though protein needn't be high in calories or fat. One can chug whey protein drinks all day - they are low in calories.
The problem about dieting and doing just cardio is eventually you will hit a wall where you cannot lose more weight. Strength training on the other hand will amp up your metabolism and help you have a higher metabolism. It also helps build bone density which is SO important as we age.
And "getting stronger" = muscles being used and built.
Thats true you dont have to eat more per se but you do have to be in a caloric surplus.....which you may already be in. But now were playing symantics.
How can you build muscle and loose weight at the same time?
Getting stronger does not mean muscles are being built. As you loose body fat and excercise and eat right you will become healthy, feel better, and stronger. This does not mean you are building muscle but actually using more of the muscle that you have. Think of it like your muscles learning how they are supposed to work.
Thats true you dont have to eat more per se but you do have to be in a caloric surplus.....which you may already be in. But now were playing symantics.
How can you build muscle and loose weight at the same time?
Getting stronger does not mean muscles are being built. As you loose body fat and excercise and eat right you will become healthy, feel better, and stronger. This does not mean you are building muscle but actually using more of the muscle that you have. Think of it like your muscles learning how they are supposed to work.
Great discussion....
I've spent the last 20 years on the fitness treadmill, working out, running long distances, eating right, etc.
I've decided to go back to "normal", whatever that is.... There's getting in shape and there's staying in shape and staying in shape (for me) takes as much time as getting in shape - it's takes an enormous amount of time and attention to lifestyle to stay in peak condition year round.
I don't know if this makes sense or not but what I'm trying to say is that the body is always changing and it can be a real beast to make it do what you want it to do.
Jim Adams
05-09-2009, 00:47
Mr. Parkay did the AT, PCT, BMT, Pinhoti and several other hikes w/o a stove.
geek
I've never tried soaking it. Good idea. I eat it like a big, 300 calorie cracker that only costs a few dimes.
If you pour a tiny bit of olive oil on the ramen and then put it in a plastic bag with the spice packet and shake it up it will flavor it. You can also try spicing it with ranch dip powdered mix, taco or chlli mix, cheese powder, etc, etc.