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JDCool1
05-06-2009, 01:50
Isn't the AT listed as a national trail under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service? It that is so, it comes under the jurisdiction of the federal marshalls or the FBI. Question is where are they and why are they not investigating. I sent an email to the ATC questioning any action that may be taking place. No reply yet, plan a phone call tomorrow. I am a a member and would expect some knowledge of any investigation. This is a disturbing situation for sure. Rumors or not need to be check out.

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 07:21
Isn't the AT listed as a national trail under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service? It that is so, it comes under the jurisdiction of the federal marshalls or the FBI. Question is where are they and why are they not investigating. I sent an email to the ATC questioning any action that may be taking place. No reply yet, plan a phone call tomorrow. I am a a member and would expect some knowledge of any investigation. This is a disturbing situation for sure. Rumors or not need to be check out.
DO not call the ATC, they know about him and what is going on. They know about what happened in Hot Springs, but there is nothing they can really do. He isnt breaking any laws. Just cuz he is an a**hole to everyone doesnt mean anything. Until something "happens", he is free to do whatever he wants until he breaks the law. Point is, the ATC knows and unless you know where he is and have some type of information that is useful, you shouldnt call.

nufsaid
05-06-2009, 07:41
He looks to be about twice my size so I figure I can give him a vicious bite or something


Sounds like a plan. Hope you get the chance to try it out.

kanga
05-06-2009, 07:43
but if he hit that kiwi man, isn't that assault and therefore breaking the law?

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 07:52
but if he hit that kiwi man, isn't that assault and therefore breaking the law?

Charges were filed in Hot Springs for that. He will have to go to court to have that taken care of. Im not trying to block anyone from getting the guy off the trail, but its just that he will go before the judicial system and his court date is probably months away if he even has one. Now he is in VA and hasnt done anything that would warrant any charges. Innocent until proven guilty. I see what everyone is getting at, I called the ATC last week to see what is being done. They are only doing what they can.

kanga
05-06-2009, 07:57
Charges were filed in Hot Springs for that. He will have to go to court to have that taken care of. Im not trying to block anyone from getting the guy off the trail, but its just that he will go before the judicial system and his court date is probably months away if he even has one. Now he is in VA and hasnt done anything that would warrant any charges. Innocent until proven guilty. I see what everyone is getting at, I called the ATC last week to see what is being done. They are only doing what they can.

cool. have you heard anything why ranger todd can't do anything about the hot springs charge since it happened on the trail?

TD55
05-06-2009, 07:59
DO not call the ATC, they know about him and what is going on. They know about what happened in Hot Springs, but there is nothing they can really do. He isnt breaking any laws. Just cuz he is an a**hole to everyone doesnt mean anything. Until something "happens", he is free to do whatever he wants until he breaks the law. Point is, the ATC knows and unless you know where he is and have some type of information that is useful, you shouldnt call.

Sounds like BS. A foreign visitor was allegedly assaulted on the AT. The visitor should not be required to know all the details about reporting a crime to "proper" officials. He was in a NP. If officials have knowledge of this incident some kind of official investigation should be made. The ATC is not a law enforcement agency, however, they have a responsibility to take some kind of action. They have clout and pull and can apply pressure to NPS to investigate.
Not to be rude, but it is not anyones business wether someone calls the ATC to voice concern, report a crime or just spout off about something. Maybe the ATC needs a few pesky phone calls to put a fire under thier butts.

Lone Wolf
05-06-2009, 08:09
Charges were filed in Hot Springs for that. He will have to go to court to have that taken care of. Im not trying to block anyone from getting the guy off the trail, but its just that he will go before the judicial system and his court date is probably months away if he even has one.

you know this for a fact? did you talk to the police in hot springs? how will he show up in court if he's not aware of any charges against him? buncha BS this whole thing :rolleyes:

TD55
05-06-2009, 08:18
Charges were filed in Hot Springs for that. He will have to go to court to have that taken care of. Im not trying to block anyone from getting the guy off the trail, but its just that he will go before the judicial system and his court date is probably months away if he even has one. Now he is in VA and hasnt done anything that would warrant any charges. Innocent until proven guilty. I see what everyone is getting at, I called the ATC last week to see what is being done. They are only doing what they can.
Charges were filed???? That would be a major developement and mean a heck of alot to this discussion. To make such a statement of fact about this incident without real knowledge would be very irrisponsible.

zoidfu
05-06-2009, 08:19
Sounds like a plan. Hope you get the chance to try it out.

I'm thinking about screaming, "YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I'VE BEEN!!!!!!"(like Brad Pitt in fight club) before I strike.

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 08:40
Charges were filed in Hot Springs for that. He will have to go to court to have that taken care of. Im not trying to block anyone from getting the guy off the trail, but its just that he will go before the judicial system and his court date is probably months away if he even has one. Now he is in VA and hasnt done anything that would warrant any charges. Innocent until proven guilty. I see what everyone is getting at, I called the ATC last week to see what is being done. They are only doing what they can.

Don't you mean that a complaint was filed in Hot Springs? I'm not sure but I think there's a big difference between that and charges being filed against someone.

Bearpaw
05-06-2009, 08:46
I'm thinking about screaming, "YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I'VE BEEN!!!!!!"(like Brad Pitt in fight club) before I strike.

That only works if you're already bleeding profusely on the guy. :-?

MOWGLI
05-06-2009, 08:46
Not to be rude, but it is not anyones business wether someone calls the ATC to voice concern, report a crime or just spout off about something. Maybe the ATC needs a few pesky phone calls to put a fire under thier butts.

The ATC is not responsible for the conduct of hikers on the trail. And that's a good thing. Because the number of miscreants seems to be increasing each year.

kanga
05-06-2009, 08:52
The ATC is not responsible for the conduct of hikers on the trail. And that's a good thing. Because the number of miscreants seems to be increasing each year.

i think it's sad that some hikers are not responsible for their own conduct. just sayin'.

nufsaid
05-06-2009, 08:52
That only works if you're already bleeding profusely on the guy. :-?

So much the better. Don't try to talk him out of his plan.

MOWGLI
05-06-2009, 08:59
i think it's sad that some hikers are not responsible for their own conduct. just sayin'.

Agreed. But to call the ATC and complain about what some schmuck did on the trail... If laws were/are broken, that's a job for law enforcement. Not the ATC.

I know that you get it Kanga. That's universally acknowledged. ;)

kanga
05-06-2009, 09:07
Agreed. But to call the ATC and complain about what some schmuck did on the trail... If laws were/are broken, that's a job for law enforcement. Not the ATC.

I know that you get it Kanga. That's universally acknowledged. ;)

thank you. i just snorted my coffee..

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 09:28
you know this for a fact? did you talk to the police in hot springs? how will he show up in court if he's not aware of any charges against him? buncha BS this whole thing :rolleyes:

I wouldn't call an assault in from of six witnesses a bunch of BS.
This guy is a loaded gun and a bully.
And what goes around, comes around.
Always.

Lone Wolf
05-06-2009, 09:33
I wouldn't call an assault in from of six witnesses a bunch of BS.
This guy is a loaded gun and a bully.
And what goes around, comes around.
Always.

where are these witnesses? did they talk to LEOs or just post stuff on their journals? this alleged bully could have been easily caught between hot springs and damascus. obviously there's no warrants are charges

JJJ
05-06-2009, 09:42
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=270720

If as noted in the TJ, if Mr. Spike we're to physically assault his wife, and someone witnesses it, in Virginia, he could be turned in and charged regardless of whether the wife presses charges or not.
But if I saw someone hit their wife, I'm not sure I could wait for due process, and I'm a peaceful person.

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 09:56
where are these witnesses? did they talk to LEOs or just post stuff on their journals? this alleged bully could have been easily caught between hot springs and damascus. obviously there's no warrants are charges

I think at this point, in order to remove him from the AT, you need an arrest warrant issued by the court.

The police could have arrested him for probable cause if it was a felony, but I kind of doubt this would fall under that heading.

DAJA
05-06-2009, 09:58
I think at this point, in order to remove him from the AT, you need an arrest warrant issued by the court.

The police could have arrested him for probable cause if it was a felony, but I kind of doubt this would fall under that heading.


Since when is assault causing bodily harm not a felony..

Pedaling Fool
05-06-2009, 09:59
This whole thread is a lot of emotional ranting.

A lot of people don’t have a concept of how our legal system works. They seem to think that once someone is purported to have committed an offense that LE officials just come in and swoop the person away. This is not like a domestic violence calls where most or all the parties are present when the cops arrive.

If the authorities could just "get him off the trail", as many think they should, that would require a fundamental change in our legal system, primarily the concept of "innocent until proven guilty".

Cops can’t just arrest someone based on reports in online journals.

Question: What do you’ll want, cops on the trail with an on-trail phone system, with phones every mile for a quick response?

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 10:07
Since when is assault causing bodily harm not a felony..

I think it's considered a misdemeanor. Hey, I'm just saying that's the legal system, I didn't make the rules.

Post
05-06-2009, 10:10
The "kiwis" allegededly said "if I had punched him in the face he'd still be lying there" and ".. i want to have his arse kicked so will leave the justice that he deserves to come his way. If you guys dont get him I will when I return. and it wont be with a gun." Sounds like alot of testosterone poisoning and silly strutting and posturing going on there. Maybe that's what triggered the spat.

TD55
05-06-2009, 10:13
It's not all about getting the guy off the trail or having him arrested. It's about someone of authority getting to the bottom of the story about a person who is alleged to have committed an act of violence on a foreign visitor to a National Park and may not have understood all the jurisdictional and legal crap about reporting a crime. So NC can not do anything because the alleged dude hiked into another state and the other state can't do nothin cause the alleged crime took place in another state and the ATC says it ain't thier job and the NPS only has one ranger. Here at WB the advice is to not bother the ATC. Bureacracy is either really cool or it sucks, just depends on how you look at things.

Post
05-06-2009, 10:38
I found this photo on Trail Journals of Spike's message to the world:

http://www.trailgallery.com/photos/4267/tj4267_042809_154657_433112.jpgWhat IS that exactly? A huge piece of cloth? Cardboard? Or is it paint on the shelter wall? Floor? Sure looks awful smooth to be painted wood. Someone said it is four feet by five feet in size? I don't think I've ever seen a smooth white surface suitable for writing on that is that big in any shelter I've been in. Can someone elaborate on just what the deal is with this "message"?

kanga
05-06-2009, 10:40
looks like the shelter floor to me.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 10:41
If there is no legal remedy, then maybe the group needs to take action some kind of action, like posting fliers along the trail from Virginia northward? Peer pressure can be a powerful force.

What we do have is numerous people telling us that this person is a real problem and probably a danger to the people around him, possibly even to his hiking companion/wife. This is the kind of person who will operate with impunity (no fear) until somebody shuts him down, one way or another.

The fliers could include a picture and contain a warning about this dangerous person. Anybody with a computer could put them together in a few minutes, make copies, staple them to trees at trail heads and crossings. Perhaps they could also encourage the bully to turn himself in to police in hot Springs.

Just an idea and a good one at that.

wakapak
05-06-2009, 10:43
What IS that exactly? A huge piece of cloth? Cardboard? Or is it paint on the shelter wall? Floor? Sure looks awful smooth to be painted wood. Someone said it is four feet by five feet in size? I don't think I've ever seen a smooth white surface suitable for writing on that is that big in any shelter I've been in. Can someone elaborate on just what the deal is with this "message"?

thats on the shelter floor at Overmountain shelter. we saw it while out on a section a week or so ago. the same message was also written in the journal at the hostel at 19E.

Alligator
05-06-2009, 10:43
What IS that exactly? A huge piece of cloth? Cardboard? Or is it paint on the shelter wall? Floor? Sure looks awful smooth to be painted wood. Someone said it is four feet by five feet in size? I don't think I've ever seen a smooth white surface suitable for writing on that is that big in any shelter I've been in. Can someone elaborate on just what the deal is with this "message"?The shelter where it is allegedly written is as big as a barn.

vamelungeon
05-06-2009, 10:44
If you put out a flier about someone you had better make sure it has facts and not hearsay, which is all there is about this guy so far. I don't know if he made an unprovoked attack against someone or not, but I wouldn't want to go around smearing they guy's name without proof.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 10:58
If this story is false, there are lots of liars out hiking this year and they are all running a conspiracy against this guy. That is extremely unlikely. People don't just make this kind of thing up, then collude to tell the tale through various sources and in trail journals. Hikers don't fake injuries and get off the trail. Even if the punching incident wasn't entirely unprovoked, a physical attack is wrong and a law was broken, as was the trust the hiking community give to each other. Physically violent people are unacceptable anywhere, in bars, schools or on the trail or in the trail community. His claimed status as a former Marine is irrelevant before the law.

I consider him dangerous, just based on what I've read here.
I'll be on the lookout for him.

Fliers similar to wanted posters would be a good thing, if just as a warning to others. Truth is the ultimate defense against slander. If he's innocent, let him tell us that and let him do the honorable thing as any (alleged) United States Marine with even the smallest sense of honor would do: clear his name or stand up and be judged for his actions.

Fliers are a good idea. They might persuade him to do the right thing.

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 11:00
If this story is false, there are lots of liars out hiking this year and they are all running a conspiracy against this guy. That is extremely unlikely. People don't just make this kind of thing up, then collude to tell the tale through various sources and in trail journals. Hikers don't fake injuries and get off the trail. Even if the punching incident wasn't entirely unprovoked, a physical attack is wrong and a law was broken, as was the trust the hiking community give to each other. Physically violent people are unacceptable anywhere, in bars, schools or on the trail or in the trail community. His claimed status as a former Marine is irrelevant before the law.

I consider him dangerous, just based on what I've read here.
I'll be on the lookout for him.

Fliers similar to wanted posters would be a good thing, if just as a warning to others. Truth is the ultimate defense against slander. If he's innocent, let him tell us that and let him do the honorable thing as any (alleged) United States Marine with even the smallest sense of honor would do: clear his name or stand up and be judged for his actions.

Fliers are a good idea. They might persuade him to do the right thing.

IMHO you are asking for a heap of trouble

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 11:08
If this story is false, there are lots of liars out hiking this year and they are all running a conspiracy against this guy. That is extremely unlikely. People don't just make this kind of thing up, then collude to tell the tale through various sources and in trail journals. Hikers don't fake injuries and get off the trail. Even if the punching incident wasn't entirely unprovoked, a physical attack is wrong and a law was broken, as was the trust the hiking community give to each other. Physically violent people are unacceptable anywhere, in bars, schools or on the trail or in the trail community. His claimed status as a former Marine is irrelevant before the law.

I consider him dangerous, just based on what I've read here.
I'll be on the lookout for him.

Fliers similar to wanted posters would be a good thing, if just as a warning to others. Truth is the ultimate defense against slander. If he's innocent, let him tell us that and let him do the honorable thing as any (alleged) United States Marine with even the smallest sense of honor would do: clear his name or stand up and be judged for his actions.

Fliers are a good idea. They might persuade him to do the right thing.


The legal term for that is defamation. Be very careful about doing something like that. I would suggest you do a little research on the Internet to see what the legal system considers to be defamation.

kanga
05-06-2009, 11:17
what's wrong with the 'let's all just be aware of our surroundings when we're out hiking and leave the reporting to the people the situation happened to' approach?
that usually works.

Lone Wolf
05-06-2009, 11:19
this thread should be in hiking humor :)

DAJA
05-06-2009, 11:26
this thread should be in hiking humor :)

Yes your right of course, it's very funny that a visitor to your country was injured severly enough to have to return to his country for surgery. Even funnier that the person who caused the injury is simply allowed to walk way and brand every flat surface he can find with drum beating patriotic BS and entitlement and spread negitivity throughout those hiking around him... Oh yes it's a real knee slapper...

TD55
05-06-2009, 11:27
this thread should be in hiking humor :)
Don't know about that, but putting up fliers is a horrile idea.

vamelungeon
05-06-2009, 11:28
what's wrong with the 'let's all just be aware of our surroundings when we're out hiking and leave the reporting to the people the situation happened to' approach?
that usually works.
You got that right!

Lone Wolf
05-06-2009, 11:30
Yes your right of course, it's very funny that a visitor to your country was injured severly enough to have to return to his country for surgery. Even funnier that the person who caused the injury is simply allowed to walk way and brand every flat surface he can find with drum beating patriotic BS and entitlement and spread negitivity throughout those hiking around him... Oh yes it's a real knee slapper...

you don't know if he was injured at all. nobody knows anything. just typical internet gossip and speculation :)

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 11:31
If there was something anyone could do I think it would have been done by now. It is all heresay. I understand there have been eyewitness accounts. Let the LEO or whomever is handling this do what they need to do. This guy may be a bit intense and may be an ahole, but we do not know the whole story. You cant go around bashing people and puting up flyers just cuz he is an ahole. If it was a crime to be an ahole, most of us would have been hauled off the AT a long time ago.

Alligator
05-06-2009, 11:37
this thread should be in hiking humor :)I'm thinking maybe we need a PT Forum-Pitchforks and Torches:cool:.

There are three sides to every story, A, B and what really happened. While it is important to be aware of the incident and the individuals involved, all the facts have not been presented here. There could have been a precipitating action prior to the shoulder punch. I wasn't there, nor were any of those who have posted.

Gray Blazer
05-06-2009, 11:39
Don't know about that, but putting up fliers is a horrile idea.

Next thing you know they'll be puttin' up flyers about the guy puttin' up fliers.

There's my moronic 2 cents about this whole thing.

weary
05-06-2009, 11:46
Ward "Chip" Leonard really was not hard to deal ....he reacted to those that overreacted and was civil to those who acted civilly
That was my experience with Ward Leonard in 1991.

TD55
05-06-2009, 11:46
what's wrong with the 'let's all just be aware of our surroundings when we're out hiking and leave the reporting to the people the situation happened to' approach?
that usually works.
No it doesn't, not when you are talking about a person showing the signs that this person is showing and alleged to be showing. Some of us may recognize these signs and what they indicate and some may not.

Post
05-06-2009, 11:51
The shelter where it is allegedly written is as big as a barn.Yes, I know. The shelter actually IS a barn. :p I just don't recall the floor being painted white, but then it was 2006 when I was there, maybe I just don't remember.

In any case, wow, that is total vandalism. Do we have any proof that this "Spike" person is the one who defaced the shelter or is it just assumptions?

Bobbo
05-06-2009, 11:51
Some of the best reading on WB in a while.
This is like some crazy ass version of the telephone game. Makes for entertaining reading while at work.
I have not thru hiked the AT since 98, but I’ve spent plenty of time in the woods on the trail since then. In my experience in 98 and since then, there are always fights and drama occurring within the thru hiking community. There were several fights between thru hikers the year I hiked. If my memory serves me correctly, there was a pretty nasty one between some x military guy and a hiker named Happy Feet. Depending on whom you liked or who you hung out with – people took sides and talked smack and placed blame concerning the people involved. When you spend your entire day walking and socializing you tend to magnify the small amount of unusual behavior (drama) around you. It can get pretty clicky out there and people will take the side of their friends – “oh my god what a jerk! That was so uncool! Someone should teach that guy a lesson!) – sounds like high school.
There are jerks and bullies everywhere. Do like you would do in the real world – stay away from people you don’t like - just another reason to avoid shelters and sleep in a tent your lugging around anyway. If he has broken the law and the police or NPS (there jurisdiction) really wanted him, they would have done something about it already. The AT is not the “wilderness” it’s pretty easy to find anyone you want out there. (Except for legally blind hikers who wander off the trail.)
The rants, speculation and suggestions on this thread are priceless.

TD55
05-06-2009, 11:52
His written message is not hearsay or gossip. It is disturbing and says alot.

Alligator
05-06-2009, 11:57
Yes, I know. The shelter actually IS a barn. :p I just don't recall the floor being painted white, but then it was 2006 when I was there, maybe I just don't remember.

In any case, wow, that is total vandalism. Do we have any proof that this "Spike" person is the one who defaced the shelter or is it just assumptions?I don't remember a square that looked like that either but someone mentioned that maybe the socks were hanging, so it could be a piece of the wall.

No one has stated that they saw him write that.

MOWGLI
05-06-2009, 12:08
No it doesn't, not when you are talking about a person showing the signs that this person is showing and alleged to be showing. Some of us may recognize these signs and what they indicate and some may not.

If you don't already have a trail name, may I suggest Dr. Phil. :p

kanga
05-06-2009, 12:14
No it doesn't, not when you are talking about a person showing the signs that this person is showing and alleged to be showing. Some of us may recognize these signs and what they indicate and some may not.
go get him then, tiger!

Hooch
05-06-2009, 12:20
If you don't already have a trail name, may I suggest Dr. Phil. :pNow that's funny! :banana

TD55
05-06-2009, 12:23
If you don't already have a trail name, may I suggest Dr. Phil. :p
No you may not, but thanks for the compliment.

TD55
05-06-2009, 12:28
go get him then, tiger!
Why you call me tiger? Whats wrong with you.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 12:29
Next time you meet a bully on the trail who might or might not beat your butt or kill you, just be polite and play along. :rolleyes:
Just stay quiet like the sheeple you are.
Maybe pray.

Lots of people defending this guy here.
Says a lot.:D

kanga
05-06-2009, 12:32
Next time you meet a bully on the trail who might or might not beat your butt or kill you, just be polite and play along. :rolleyes:
Just stay quiet like the sheeple you are.
Maybe pray.

Lots of people defending this guy here.
Says a lot.:D


no, we have a superpower that allows us to not go off half-cocked about something that we know very little about.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 12:35
"Half cocked" is a good description for it.

Why don't some of these internet Marines go out and fix the problem?

Post
05-06-2009, 12:43
So, is there any proof that the man in the picture is the same man who assaulted the Kiwi guy, and also vandalized the shelter?

nufsaid
05-06-2009, 13:04
"Half cocked" is a good description for it.

Why don't some of these internet Marines go out and fix the problem?

Zoidfu has it covered.

generoll
05-06-2009, 13:05
Seems that a lot of people are encouraging someone else to go deal with this issue. Instead of standing on the sidelines and egging someone else on, if you feel this demands immediate action just go for it. As I said before, we'd be interested in hearing how it turns out.

HeartFire
05-06-2009, 13:21
This is also from Moseys TJ on 3/26 at Brown Fork Gap Shelter. Mosey told me 'the rest of the story'. He had been snoring and she nudged him to roll over, he had a fit and a half and got up intentionally making a lot of noise, banging pots and pans, yelling at his wife. I think it is the same guy, she did tell me he was prior military. I feel sorry for the guys wife, he sounds very abusive.

"One hiker had gotten up with his wife at 4 AM and proceeded to fix breakfast and pack up for four hours before leaving at 8. He also talked in a loud voice for the whole time, shined his light on everyone, and stomped around the shelter. What a jerk. When he finally left in the morning, we all voted that he was certifiable, and we hope our paths don't cross again. Everyone else in the shelter was real nice."

zoidfu
05-06-2009, 13:30
So much the better. Don't try to talk him out of his plan.

haha You know, I hope you don't fall down the stairs today or drive into a bridge abutment... that would be terrible.

vamelungeon
05-06-2009, 13:34
Next time you meet a bully on the trail who might or might not beat your butt or kill you, just be polite and play along. :rolleyes:
Just stay quiet like the sheeple you are.
Maybe pray.

Lots of people defending this guy here.
Says a lot.:D
I haven't seen anyone defending him, but I've seen several condemning him on hearsay.
If you were accused of something, I'm sure you would want PROOF instead a bunch of posts on the internet. People are unjustly accused of things all the time.
Everyone has their right to a fair hearing. It doesn't make people "sheeple" to insist upon it.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 13:39
Zoidfu has it covered.

roger that.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 14:39
Found this posted over at Trail Journals:
POPPIE wrote:



SPIKE
JUST AN UPDATE... I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE ATC AND NATIONAL PARK SERVICE RANGER. THEY ARE AWARE OF THIS GUY AND HE IS WANTED FOR QUESTIONING FOR SEVERAL INCIDENTS SOME OF WHICH WERE ON FEDERAL LAND. THE RANGER TOLD ME THEY ARE MOVING QUICKLY TO DEAL WITH HIM. FYI HE LEFT CHESTNUT KNOB SHELTER THE EVENING OF 5/5/09.

5/6/09 2:07 PM

superman
05-06-2009, 14:45
no, we have a superpower that allows us to not go off half-cocked about something that we know very little about.

Are you referring to me...I know very little about it.:)

Pedaling Fool
05-06-2009, 14:49
Found this posted over at Trail Journals:
POPPIE wrote:



SPIKE
JUST AN UPDATE... I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE ATC AND NATIONAL PARK SERVICE RANGER. THEY ARE AWARE OF THIS GUY AND HE IS WANTED FOR QUESTIONING FOR SEVERAL INCIDENTS SOME OF WHICH WERE ON FEDERAL LAND. THE RANGER TOLD ME THEY ARE MOVING QUICKLY TO DEAL WITH HIM. FYI HE LEFT CHESTNUT KNOB SHELTER THE EVENING OF 5/5/09.

5/6/09 2:07 PM
To be clear, I'm not sayin' this guy is innocent, just don't know.

However, what do you'll expect the authorities to do? So what if they question the guy, that ain't going to lead to nothing. They do not have the authority to get him off the trail, if they did we're all in trouble.

The above post is hearsay of hearsay.

Foyt20
05-06-2009, 14:53
As the trail turns................

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 15:01
They do not have the authority to get him off the trail, if they did we're all in trouble.

If the relevant law enforcement agencies decide to work together, they can and will take him off the trail for questioning and/or to face appropriate charges. For what? Possibly assault (in whatever degree the law provides) and vandalism.

This guy will be treated like problem bear.
Who knows what will happen next!?
Stay tuned!

Pedaling Fool
05-06-2009, 15:04
All the parties have dispersed, that is the primary reason why they can't do much.

Crazy Larry #1
05-06-2009, 15:14
I'm thinking about screaming, "YOU DON'T KNOW WHERE I'VE BEEN!!!!!!"(like Brad Pitt in fight club) before I strike.
Just tell him you were in the same platoon as he was a few years later.......he'll run fer sher!

hoz
05-06-2009, 15:21
Found this posted over at Trail Journals:
POPPIE wrote:

SPIKE
JUST AN UPDATE... I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE ATC AND NATIONAL PARK SERVICE RANGER. THEY ARE AWARE OF THIS GUY AND HE IS WANTED FOR QUESTIONING FOR SEVERAL INCIDENTS SOME OF WHICH WERE ON FEDERAL LAND. THE RANGER TOLD ME THEY ARE MOVING QUICKLY TO DEAL WITH HIM. FYI HE LEFT CHESTNUT KNOB SHELTER THE EVENING OF 5/5/09.

5/6/09 2:07 PM

And the noose tightens...They should have him by tonight.

Crazy Larry #1
05-06-2009, 15:28
If it was a crime to be an ahole, most of us would have been hauled off the AT a long time ago.Not me, I have always been an angel. Except for that one time right out of Monson that I had to kick that guys butt becuase he thought he could push me around because I was a white trash southerner as he put it. But other than that I was a total angel, except for that one time when I was in some bar in Pennsylvania somewhere and I got into another altercation because I was an AT hiker......got to stand up you know for the hiking community.......but other than that I was purely a sweet guy, in fact I still am, just ask Lone Wolf.....

Pedaling Fool
05-06-2009, 15:47
What really gets me about this is that everyone seems to think that law enforcement just simply arrests someone that commits a wrong and then the problem is solved. It doesn’t work that way.

If this guy really is guilty of committing an offense punishable by law than it’s the fault of the victim(s) and all witnesses that he got away – it’s not law enforcement’s bad. They failed in their civic responsibility to see that this guy (if guilty) was held responsible for his actions. The cops only have a small part in the process of holding someone accountable. The prosecutors have the biggest part to play in this process, which needs the victim and witnesses to participate, and they can’t just submit their trail journals.

Also some don’t seem to realize that we all accept a certain responsibility for our safety when we go into the wilderness (I know the AT is not a wilderness), but all terms are relative. In one sense it is a wilderness, because you can not make a call to 911 and expect a response like you get in town. If someone decides they want to beat you over the head with a log, then you got to be ready to protect yourself.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 16:36
What really gets me about this is that everyone seems to think that law enforcement just simply arrests someone that commits a wrong and then the problem is solved. It doesn’t work that way.

If this guy really is guilty of committing an offense punishable by law than it’s the fault of the victim(s) and all witnesses that he got away – it’s not law enforcement’s bad. They failed in their civic responsibility to see that this guy (if guilty) was held responsible for his actions. The cops only have a small part in the process of holding someone accountable. The prosecutors have the biggest part to play in this process, which needs the victim and witnesses to participate, and they can’t just submit their trail journals.

Also some don’t seem to realize that we all accept a certain responsibility for our safety when we go into the wilderness (I know the AT is not a wilderness), but all terms are relative. In one sense it is a wilderness, because you can not make a call to 911 and expect a response like you get in town. If someone decides they want to beat you over the head with a log, then you got to be ready to protect yourself.

Must be a graduate of the Intertubes School of Lawyering!
(It's right next door to the Barracks School of Lawyering)

I know a guy who was involved in an injury lawsuit and the opposing attorneys used his trailjournals journal against him in the litigation.
Where are your "rights" now?
Bwah-hahahahahaha!

Like the man said above, the noose tightens...

Pedaling Fool
05-06-2009, 17:38
Must be a graduate of the Intertubes School of Lawyering!
(It's right next door to the Barracks School of Lawyering)

I know a guy who was involved in an injury lawsuit and the opposing attorneys used his trailjournals journal against him in the litigation.
Where are your "rights" now?
Bwah-hahahahahaha!

Like the man said above, the noose tightens...
Personal attack, or at least you're mocking me, that's ok, but I do need to correct one thing: I never said trail journals can not be used as evidence. I did say, simply submitting a journal is not all one has to do to ensure someone is convicted - there's a little bit more to it.

Feel free to mock or attack me in a baseless manner, but don't take my words out of context.

traildust
05-06-2009, 18:11
surely there has got to be something more important to talk about. shoot me please.

Dovetail
05-06-2009, 18:25
Just shoot him and put everyone out of their misery. (KIDDING)
Sounds like his significant other needs to give him the boot and tell him to take a long hike on his own. Shun him.
Somebody needs to "bend his dog-tags" and send him on his way packing.

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 18:25
I don't remember a square that looked like that either but someone mentioned that maybe the socks were hanging, so it could be a piece of the wall.

No one has stated that they saw him write that.

Its the left side of the shelter at Overmountain. If you have been there, its like a raised deck platform. It is on the corner of it.

Darwin again
05-06-2009, 18:28
Its the left side of the shelter at Overmountain. If you have been there, its like a raised deck platform. It is on the corner of it.

And he signed it. :rolleyes:

TD55
05-06-2009, 18:41
surely there has got to be something more important to talk about. shoot me please.
Over 15,000 views in a week. The SPIKE SHOW is a hit. Someone should make a reality TV show. Next week, Spikster meets Zoidaman!!!

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 18:57
Over 15,000 views in a week. The SPIKE SHOW is a hit. Someone should make a reality TV show. Next week, Spikster meets Zoidaman!!!
Go Spike:D

Karrmer
05-06-2009, 19:30
If the relevant law enforcement agencies decide to work together, they can and will take him off the trail for questioning and/or to face appropriate charges. For what? Possibly assault (in whatever degree the law provides) and vandalism.

This guy will be treated like problem bear.
Who knows what will happen next!?
Stay tuned!

I work for a Sheriff's dept and I figured I'll just toss my opinion in here even though no one cares and it's probably been said before, but...

Him drawing on the ground is potentially technically "vandalism" but it is EXTREMELY minor at best. You could probably just wash that right off. It wasn't malicious. He'd most likely, at the very very worst, get a ticket to appear in court for drawing on the ground. Jails are generally very full and do not book on minor infractions and even misdemeanors (if they managed to get him for a misdemeanor for such a trivial thing.)

About him hitting the Kiwi guy:

I do not believe anyone has clarified what "notified" the authorities really means. Did they stay there until police arrived, make a formal written report for battery, and allow the police to document and take evidence on the injuries sustained, take witness reports, etc? If they just told them over the phone and then bailed, chances are the call was cleared with a notation basically saying that no victim was able to be contacted for a full report and consequently nothing will be happening.

Let's say a report WAS taken, though - it would potentially be a felony battery case, as he caused great bodily injury.

Now comes the issue of getting the agency that took the report to coordinate with the agency of jurisdiction where he is located. They have to convince the other agency that they should go out, spend their resources finding and arresting him and holding them in their jail for extradition on felony battery charges.

It just isn't as simple as it sounds.

Karrmer
05-06-2009, 19:31
Oh, and if for whatever reason they decided it wasn't a felony battery case - and was merely a misdemeanor - no agency would be likely to do anything from that point on because almost no one will arrest someone for an out of county/state misdemeanor warrant, and even fewer would extradite.

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 19:52
Oh, and if for whatever reason they decided it wasn't a felony battery case - and was merely a misdemeanor - no agency would be likely to do anything from that point on because almost no one will arrest someone for an out of county/state misdemeanor warrant, and even fewer would extradite.

Thanks Karrmer, I stand corrected, it just might be a felony. We'll have to see what charges, if any, they bring up on him.

I found some additional information felony battery:


Class I Felony Battery

If you cause substantial bodily harm with intent and without consent from the other person, you may face this felony battery charge. Class I felony battery carries a potential sentence of up tp 3 ½ years in prison and fines reaching $10,000.

Substantial bodily harm refers to any injury that causes stitches, staples, bone fracture, broken nose, loss of consciousness, a concussion, or loss of a tooth.

Karrmer
05-06-2009, 20:09
The exact definition can vary quite a bit from state to state so I am not sure what the law is where this happened, unless you just posted the exact one.

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 20:10
One other point to consider, the "intent" part of that might be hard to prove. Not knowing what went down between Spike and the Mad Kiwi, its hard to tell if it is a case of felony battery.

In other words, the state has to prove that Spike hit the Mad Kiwi with the intent to cause substantial bodily harm. It all comes down to what the witnesses say.

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 20:21
The exact definition can vary quite a bit from state to state so I am not sure what the law is where this happened, unless you just posted the exact one.

You're right, got the wrong state. Let try to find it for North Carolina.

Karrmer
05-06-2009, 20:34
One other point to consider, the "intent" part of that might be hard to prove. Not knowing what went down between Spike and the Mad Kiwi, its hard to tell if it is a case of felony battery.

In other words, the state has to prove that Spike hit the Mad Kiwi with the intent to cause substantial bodily harm. It all comes down to what the witnesses say.

Yeah, the more I think about it the more I'm pretty sure that'd be a misdemeanor battery case at best.

If the story is true that he punched the guy in the back of the arm, it'd be nearly impossible to claim in a report that the guy intended to cause great bodily harm. A freak accident caused his ligaments to get messed up a bit but other than that, I see nothing that would resemble a felony crime.

Considering that it was almost assuredly a misdemeanor, if it was officially reported at all, it makes sense that nothing is being done. Can't book or extradite on misdemeanors, pretty much nothing will happen.

That's the unfortunate law of the land.

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 20:53
I work for a Sheriff's dept and I figured I'll just toss my opinion in here even though no one cares and it's probably been said before, but...

Him drawing on the ground is potentially technically "vandalism" but it is EXTREMELY minor at best. You could probably just wash that right off. It wasn't malicious. He'd most likely, at the very very worst, get a ticket to appear in court for drawing on the ground. Jails are generally very full and do not book on minor infractions and even misdemeanors (if they managed to get him for a misdemeanor for such a trivial thing.)

About him hitting the Kiwi guy:

I do not believe anyone has clarified what "notified" the authorities really means. Did they stay there until police arrived, make a formal written report for battery, and allow the police to document and take evidence on the injuries sustained, take witness reports, etc? If they just told them over the phone and then bailed, chances are the call was cleared with a notation basically saying that no victim was able to be contacted for a full report and consequently nothing will be happening.

Let's say a report WAS taken, though - it would potentially be a felony battery case, as he caused great bodily injury.

Now comes the issue of getting the agency that took the report to coordinate with the agency of jurisdiction where he is located. They have to convince the other agency that they should go out, spend their resources finding and arresting him and holding them in their jail for extradition on felony battery charges.

It just isn't as simple as it sounds.

You are right. At one point I was up in arms about this. I had time to think about it and alot of it does not make sense to me. Thanks for the clarification.

Chaco Taco
05-06-2009, 20:58
One thing I do know from personal experience is that if he is causing problems with other hikers and is a "threat", park rangers or forest officials can remove him from the trail if a report is filed. We had an issue with someone last year making threats to people and having mental instability. The rangers in the Shenandoahs removed him and took him to question him. He was released within a day but that got him away from us and made ALOT of hikers feel alot more safe.

MintakaCat
05-06-2009, 21:23
Yeah, the more I think about it the more I'm pretty sure that'd be a misdemeanor battery case at best.

If the story is true that he punched the guy in the back of the arm, it'd be nearly impossible to claim in a report that the guy intended to cause great bodily harm. A freak accident caused his ligaments to get messed up a bit but other than that, I see nothing that would resemble a felony crime.

Considering that it was almost assuredly a misdemeanor, if it was officially reported at all, it makes sense that nothing is being done. Can't book or extradite on misdemeanors, pretty much nothing will happen.

That's the unfortunate law of the land.

Well, it might still be a case of felony battery. If the Mad Kiwi turned away to avoid a hit to the face.

Like I said, depends on what the witnesses say happened.

By the way, glad you're on the form.:welcome

zoidfu
05-07-2009, 00:20
Go Spike:D

Go hike yourself:D

Matteroo
05-07-2009, 04:33
yo i heard gatorgump put his butt on the springer plaque.
i have my pitch fork sharpened like a new pair of mountaineering crampons!

actually when we finally caught up to gatorgump in virginia i asked if i could shake his hand cause of the entertainment he provided me on whiteblaze watching so many people's panties in a bunch for days on end. plus his journal was hilarious :P

in a lot of ways.. this thread is so very similar!

Crazy Larry #1
05-07-2009, 06:14
yo i heard gatorgump put his butt on the springer plaque.
i have my pitch fork sharpened like a new pair of mountaineering crampons!

actually when we finally caught up to gatorgump in virginia i asked if i could shake his hand cause of the entertainment he provided me on whiteblaze watching so many people's panties in a bunch for days on end. plus his journal was hilarious :P

in a lot of ways.. this thread is so very similar!
I met Gatorgump here in Damascus, he certainly was a cool chap in my opinion. I asked him straight up about the plaque thing, he just grinned real big and we both had a good laugh.......:D

Newb
05-07-2009, 07:41
Some guy pushed some guy and a shoulder got hurt and had to be transported back to New Zealand. Now the shoulder pusher stalks the trail.

I just wanted to get back on topic.

generoll
05-07-2009, 08:23
It appears that the entry on TJ regarding Spike by Wendy has been removed. Any ideas why?

MileMonster
05-07-2009, 09:07
Here's a relatively interesting article on law enforcement on the AT in one of last year's AT Journeys (hope the crazy link works) -

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/Law%20Enforcement%20on%20the%20Trail%20AT%20Journe ys%20MayJune08.pdf

A note for future reference (hope you never really need it, though) - the article states that emergencies and incidents should be reported to local authorities via 911 AND a follow-up report to the ATC. Some posts on here argued that the ATC should not be notified, but apparently the ATC wants to be notified.

I was curious, since the AT is part of the National Scenic Trails system, whether the NPS has LE jurisdiction over the entire trail. This article doesn't really answer the question, but implies that they do not. The article says that the NPS Rangers have LE authority over NPS lands, but doesn't say that the whole AT are considered NPS lands. It does say that the AT passes through many jurisdictions and lands managed by local, state, and feds. That seems to imply that the NPS does not have jurisdiction over the whole. Anyone know?

Stay safe, folks.

MM.

Pedaling Fool
05-07-2009, 09:29
All I got to say is wow...and people complain about ridge runners, just wait till they put police/ranger stations on the AT. I guess this is what we get with a widely used trail system. Part of this can be blamed on "Trail Magic" which creates a party-like atmosphere.

Freedom is dangerous, I guess many don't want to accept the risks involved. You want safety on the trail, be careful of what you wish for.

truthisnature
05-07-2009, 09:47
Found this posted over at Trail Journals:
POPPIE wrote:



SPIKE
JUST AN UPDATE... I JUST GOT OFF THE PHONE WITH THE ATC AND NATIONAL PARK SERVICE RANGER. THEY ARE AWARE OF THIS GUY AND HE IS WANTED FOR QUESTIONING FOR SEVERAL INCIDENTS SOME OF WHICH WERE ON FEDERAL LAND. THE RANGER TOLD ME THEY ARE MOVING QUICKLY TO DEAL WITH HIM. FYI HE LEFT CHESTNUT KNOB SHELTER THE EVENING OF 5/5/09.

5/6/09 2:07 PM

Only 500 miles from my area.....I hope that either he takes some chill pills or leaves the trail. I don't want to have a run in with anyone that acts like an ass.

Alligator
05-07-2009, 09:54
Enough of the baiting folks.

Darwin again
05-07-2009, 09:58
All I got to say is wow...and people complain about ridge runners, just wait till they put police/ranger stations on the AT. I guess this is what we get with a widely used trail system. Part of this can be blamed on "Trail Magic" which creates a party-like atmosphere.

Freedom is dangerous, I guess many don't want to accept the risks involved. You want safety on the trail, be careful of what you wish for.

How about a law that makes it a crime to insult someone on the internet? (http://futurestorm.blogspot.com/2009/05/hr-1966-offend-someone-online-go-to.html)
http://futurestorm.blogspot.com/2009/05/hr-1966-offend-someone-online-go-to.html

How about two years in jail if you upset my delicate sensibilities?
Such a law would certainly put a crimp on most people on this site's style.
There are bigger fish to whine about than park rangers and police removing a bully from the Appalachian Trail, with which I have zero problem. The clowns in congress pull this kind of nonsense and you're whining about keeping people safe from a bully?
Priorities, dude, priorities.
Trail magic causes bullying? Get a grip...:rolleyes:

Chaco Taco
05-07-2009, 10:02
hahahahahahaha:datz:datz:bse:bse

"The reality is that if we do not stand up to this, the United States of America will quickly become overrun with politically-correct "commissars" who are eager to throw anyone who disagrees with them in jail for "hate crimes" and "thought crimes"."

JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 11:09
Big Brother is watching.

/tinfoilhat

modiyooch
05-07-2009, 11:19
If there is ever any resolution to this assault, will someone just start a new thread, please.

Darwin again
05-07-2009, 11:21
Big Brother is watching people like Spike.

modiyooch
05-07-2009, 11:30
Since I hike alone, I appreciate the heads up; speculation or not.
I truly believe that the "drifter" that I encounterd in the 90s was that crazy va guy, Hilton. It was the right time frame, and the same location. I had to book it to get away from him, and the next morning another hiker stopped and escorted us to the road because of him. He had spent the night with him in the shelter, and he said that we were the only thing the man talked about. I had my young son with me.

Pedaling Fool
05-07-2009, 11:32
...Trail magic causes bullying? Get a grip...:rolleyes:
I didn't say, "causes". But you have to wonder how many people are attracted to the AT because of the social aspect. This also applies to shelters. Don't want to get into a rant about shelters/trail magic, but a simple fact of life is, the more people you get in a given area the more ******** you will have and them more problems that are created.

Now what do we do? I guess the first step was employing ridge runners, but that seems not the remedy, so what's the next step (read the above article). Now it is possible that this is the end-of-the-line in the attempt to make the trail safer, I don't know, but things like this usually evolve.

I've seen many here bitch about ridge runners, rangers and cops. Yet we seem to want a bully removed from the trail the moment he creates a problem. Do they know what system would have to be created to get someone off the trail, right now!

So the question is, do you want a trail in which you are safe from ******** or a trail to get away from the pressures of society?

In other words, why do you hike?

modiyooch
05-07-2009, 11:42
yep, i like the trail magic, but i potentially got in trouble because of it. I don't usually linger at the roads, but I did this day because it was my first experience with trail magic. While I'm sitting there, some local redneck hunters come by because this is their highlight of the day. They were showing another guy the trail magic. The conversation caught me off guard, and the hunter actually told me that I was doing a very unsafe thing by hiking alone and he even referred to himself as a redneck. After the conversation, I realized that they knew I was alone, which direction I was headed, where my car was parked and since they were hunters; they new the area extremely well. I definately felt stupid and approached my last two miles for the trip with caution. Thankfully, I did not encounter the hunters again; but because I was so cautious and quiet; I did encounter my first granddaddy bear! I was no longer worried about the hunters.

Darwin again
05-07-2009, 11:48
I didn't say, "causes". But you have to wonder how many people are attracted to the AT because of the social aspect. This also applies to shelters. Don't want to get into a rant about shelters/trail magic, but a simple fact of life is, the more people you get in a given area the more ******** you will have and them more problems that are created.

Now what do we do? I guess the first step was employing ridge runners, but that seems not the remedy, so what's the next step (read the above article). Now it is possible that this is the end-of-the-line in the attempt to make the trail safer, I don't know, but things like this usually evolve.

I've seen many here bitch about ridge runners, rangers and cops. Yet we seem to want a bully removed from the trail the moment he creates a problem. Do they know what system would have to be created to get someone off the trail, right now!

So the question is, do you want a trail in which you are safe from ******** or a trail to get away from the pressures of society?

In other words, why do you hike?

Mostly, I hike to get away from people like you and spike.
I think the real question you should be asking is would I tolerate a Spike-like person hiking near me?

Uh no. He might not even know it was me who dropped the dime on him, either. People need to grow up and deal with bullies in a hard way, "bend their dog tags" and send them packing. Otherwise, they just get bolder and more dangerous.
Just my 2 cents.

Pedaling Fool
05-07-2009, 12:01
Mostly, I hike to get away from people like you and spike...
Yeah, I'm a bully:sun

DAJA
05-07-2009, 12:35
From Vegrant's trail journal dated April 30, 2009:

Ron and Merryll were talking about getting his shoulder fixed here in the states, but then his insurance company decided they wanted him back in New Zealand for the operation. Unfortunately that means I will not see them again until I go visit them at their home. I also had to email a US forest service ranger my version of the episode at Groundhog Creek shelter. This took about 45 minutes and 2 separate emails.

Ron and Merryll are the Mad Kiwis. So it does appear witness statements are being taken..

Darwin again
05-07-2009, 13:47
Yeah, I'm a bully:sun

If you insist.
But that's not what I meant.
Misinterpret to your heart's content.

weary
05-07-2009, 13:58
I know some on White Blaze disparage Newsweek. But this weeks edition sheds some new light on some of the "strange" folks we sometimes find on the trail.

Newsweek reports on a new movement of schizophrenics and manic depressive types. It's called "Mad Pride." Folks who revel in their differences and forego their medicines so as not to lose those moments of ecstasy.

The author suggests that "normal" folks should learn to listen to those who have "taken their suffering and created from it an all-too-rare thing: a community" of folks with "different minds."

So far the community counts 8,000 members. It's leader, Will Hall, after years in mental health hospitals, is described as "articulate, impassioned and unmedicated." He's currently seeking a masters in psychology at a psychoanalytic institute. in Oregon.

Weary

kanga
05-07-2009, 14:00
If you insist.
But that's not what I meant.
Misinterpret to your heart's content.
it is what you insinuated. it is how i took it as well. be careful with your words if you don't want to be taken wrong.

Chaco Taco
05-07-2009, 14:13
The Kiwi's have given a statement and are still in the states.

Newb
05-07-2009, 14:15
Freedom is dangerous, I guess many don't want to accept the risks involved. You want safety on the trail, be careful of what you wish for.

Was it Voltaire who said that, "Most men claim they want freedom, when what they crave is license." ?

Gray Blazer
05-07-2009, 15:01
I know some on White Blaze disparage Newsweek. But this weeks edition sheds some new light on some of the "strange" folks we sometimes find on the trail.

Newsweek reports on a new movement of schizophrenics and manic depressive types. It's called "Mad Pride." Folks who revel in their differences and forego their medicines so as not to lose those moments of ecstasy.

The author suggests that "normal" folks should learn to listen to those who have "taken their suffering and created from it an all-too-rare thing: a community" of folks with "different minds."

So far the community counts 8,000 members. It's leader, Will Hall, after years in mental health hospitals, is described as "articulate, impassioned and unmedicated." He's currently seeking a masters in psychology at a psychoanalytic institute. in Oregon.

Weary
Don't give your kids ritalin

Jester2000
05-07-2009, 18:24
Some posts on here argued that the ATC should not be notified, but apparently the ATC wants to be notified.

No one has suggested that the ATC shouldn't be notified and no one has suggested that the ATC doesn't want to be notified.

ATC wants to be notified concerning incidents on the trail by witnesses to the incidents. What was suggested was that random Whiteblazers NOT bombard ATC with questions about what they're going to do about the incident, as it adds nothing to what ATC knows.

I know there are some who would say that ATC needs to know how concerned everyone is, and that's fine. There are employees and volunteers at ATC who are Whiteblaze members; I'm sure they've seen this thread.

max patch
05-07-2009, 18:46
Don't give your kids ritalin

Give your kids ritalin if they need it.

Chaco Taco
05-07-2009, 18:47
Give your kids ritalin if they need it.

Drugs are bad mmmkay

Chaco Taco
05-07-2009, 18:48
No one has suggested that the ATC shouldn't be notified and no one has suggested that the ATC doesn't want to be notified.

ATC wants to be notified concerning incidents on the trail by witnesses to the incidents. What was suggested was that random Whiteblazers NOT bombard ATC with questions about what they're going to do about the incident, as it adds nothing to what ATC knows.

I know there are some who would say that ATC needs to know how concerned everyone is, and that's fine. There are employees and volunteers at ATC who are Whiteblaze members; I'm sure they've seen this thread.

Im def guilty of calling when this first came out and wish I hadnt. Im a bad bad monkey:(:( But seriously, I shouldnt have made that call.

max patch
05-07-2009, 18:51
Drugs are bad mmmkay

Not always.

Chaco Taco
05-07-2009, 18:52
Not always.

My opinion, always bad. But this has nothing to do with the topic at hand so we should have this discussion elsewhere.

John B
05-07-2009, 19:04
Was it Voltaire who said that, "Most men claim they want freedom, when what they crave is license." ?

That's an outstanding quote.

generoll
05-07-2009, 20:26
here's an interesting note from TJ.

"Fri - took a zero at johns hollow. Volunteer SAR dog team came by shelter and I reported our info, only the see picture of lost hiker who was not the one we saw earlier. Later, an ATC "Ridgerunner" and 3 (armed) park rangers came by."

modiyooch
05-07-2009, 20:28
Im def guilty of calling when this first came out and wish I hadnt. Im a bad bad monkey:(:( But seriously, I shouldnt have made that call.
bad monkey for calling, or for being overexcited? I think the call was ok. The website says to contact them if there is a problem.

Lone Wolf
05-07-2009, 20:33
Drugs are bad mmmkay

the morphine felt pretty sweet when i was heart attackin'

nufsaid
05-07-2009, 20:37
Give your kids ritalin if they need it.

But be aware that schools seem to like to recommend it to pacify boys that "are just being boys". A doped up kid is easier to "handle". No need to worry about how it affects learning or development.

MintakaCat
05-07-2009, 20:56
Give your kids ritalin if they need it.

I think Spike needs his ritalin:-?

nufsaid
05-07-2009, 21:10
I think Spike needs his ritalin:-?

Spike needs the vicious bite awaiting him in PA.

Dr O
05-07-2009, 21:26
And it might very well have been.
"Innocent until proven guilty."

corollary: "All crime is committed by innocent people."

River Runner
05-07-2009, 23:19
I didn't say, "causes". But you have to wonder how many people are attracted to the AT because of the social aspect. This also applies to shelters. Don't want to get into a rant about shelters/trail magic, but a simple fact of life is, the more people you get in a given area the more ******** you will have and them more problems that are created.

Now what do we do? I guess the first step was employing ridge runners, but that seems not the remedy, so what's the next step (read the above article). Now it is possible that this is the end-of-the-line in the attempt to make the trail safer, I don't know, but things like this usually evolve.

I've seen many here bitch about ridge runners, rangers and cops. Yet we seem to want a bully removed from the trail the moment he creates a problem. Do they know what system would have to be created to get someone off the trail, right now!

So the question is, do you want a trail in which you are safe from ******** or a trail to get away from the pressures of society?

In other words, why do you hike?

Seems like if you are only interested in 'social' aspects are partying there are easier places to go about that than on the AT, trail magic and all.

I do have to agree with your sentiment of keeping the trail a free place though. Thankfully it is generally a safe one too.

It's probably a whole lot likelier someone will get beat up in a bar than on a shelter on the AT.

bulldog49
05-08-2009, 09:13
here's an interesting note from TJ.

"Fri - took a zero at johns hollow. Volunteer SAR dog team came by shelter and I reported our info, only the see picture of lost hiker who was not the one we saw earlier. Later, an ATC "Ridgerunner" and 3 (armed) park rangers came by."

Who's journal is this from? What does this have to do with Spike? :confused:

Phoenix7
05-08-2009, 09:45
I wonder what Spike would think if he knew how many people are talking about him? 18,510 views at this point.

vamelungeon
05-08-2009, 10:43
corollary: "All crime is committed by innocent people."

You're joking, right? :rolleyes:

Jester2000
05-08-2009, 11:12
The website says to contact them if there is a problem.

Here's what the ATC site says about incident reporting, and their role in emergencies/crimainal activity:

"Report all incidents on the Appalachian Trail. Suspicious or illegal activity that does not require emergency response should be reported as soon as possible to local rangers or local law-enforcement. It also should be reported to ATC, which will share the information as appropriate with the NPS-A.T. Park Office and other agencies, law-enforcement officials, and Appalachian Trail clubs.

Reporting incidents or suspicious behavior helps the land-managing agencies, law-enforcement officials, ATC, and the Appalachian Trail clubs become aware of criminal activity, vandalism, resource and facility damage, and possible threats to hiker safety on the Trail. This helps to determine steps that may need to be taken to resolve a situation. A seemingly isolated incident may be linked to others—if they’re not reported, no one will make that connection."

So again, the ATC wants reports from witnesses and people with actual information, not from folks reading gossip online. There is a big difference, in my mind, between Chaco calling the ATC to make sure they're aware of the incident, and people who want to pester the ATC because they can't stand not knowing what's going on, or because they feel the need to "put a fire under their butts."

And before anyone jumps on me here, I'm not saying you don't have the right to call ATC about any little thing your heart desires. But I am saying that just because you have the right to do something, it doesn't mean you should. I suspect that the chances of any of us possessing helpful info in this matter are slim.

Chaco Taco
05-08-2009, 11:16
Here's what the ATC site says about incident reporting, and their role in emergencies/crimainal activity:

"Report all incidents on the Appalachian Trail. Suspicious or illegal activity that does not require emergency response should be reported as soon as possible to local rangers or local law-enforcement. It also should be reported to ATC, which will share the information as appropriate with the NPS-A.T. Park Office and other agencies, law-enforcement officials, and Appalachian Trail clubs.

Reporting incidents or suspicious behavior helps the land-managing agencies, law-enforcement officials, ATC, and the Appalachian Trail clubs become aware of criminal activity, vandalism, resource and facility damage, and possible threats to hiker safety on the Trail. This helps to determine steps that may need to be taken to resolve a situation. A seemingly isolated incident may be linked to others—if they’re not reported, no one will make that connection."

So again, the ATC wants reports from witnesses and people with actual information, not from folks reading gossip online. There is a big difference, in my mind, between Chaco calling the ATC to make sure they're aware of the incident, and people who want to pester the ATC because they can't stand not knowing what's going on, or because they feel the need to "put a fire under their butts."

And before anyone jumps on me here, I'm not saying you don't have the right to call ATC about any little thing your heart desires. But I am saying that just because you have the right to do something, it doesn't mean you should. I suspect that the chances of any of us possessing helpful info in this matter are slim.

Nice post Jester. :D

MOWGLI
05-08-2009, 11:23
Well said Jester. Thank you!

modiyooch
05-08-2009, 11:54
I wonder what Spike would think if he knew how many people are talking about him? 18,510 views at this point.
390 replies and at this point only a fraction is actually about him and the incident. it's hard for anyone to actually get the jest of the situation having to weed through all the other stuff.

bulldog49
05-08-2009, 12:06
You're joking, right? :rolleyes:


Someone commits a crime, they haven't yet been convicted.
You are innocent until proven guilty.

Hence, the crime was commited by an innocent person. :-?

Two Speed
05-08-2009, 12:19
From a legal perspective? Eh, maybe.

MintakaCat
05-08-2009, 13:09
From a legal perspective? Eh, maybe.

I think the term is:
“Presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law”

IMHO it doesn’t mean the person is innocent, rather it means the burden of proof is thus on the prosecution.

bulldog49
05-08-2009, 13:21
Originally Posted by vamelungeon
And it might very well have been.
"Innocent until proven guilty."



corollary: "All crime is committed by innocent people."

Look-up the word corollary. This is a tongue in check response to vamelungeon's statement.

Gray Blazer
05-08-2009, 13:21
I think the term is:
“Presumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law”

IMHO it doesn’t mean the person is innocent, rather it means the burden of proof is thus on the prosecution.
Yeah, otherwise you're guilty until proved innocent.

bulldog49
05-08-2009, 13:22
Meant tongue in cheek.

DAJA
05-08-2009, 13:27
I read on Vagrant's TJ that the Mad Kiwi's flew back to New Zealand yesterday, May 7, 2009.

Gumbi
05-08-2009, 13:39
From a legal perspective? Eh, maybe.

No, really! All you gotta do is go talk to some inmates in prison. They will all tell you that they are innocent. :D

Seriously, my pastor used to do a lot of ministry in the prisons, and he said that most of the inmates would tell him that they were innocent. They will tell you anything you want to hear.

mooseboy
05-08-2009, 18:01
This may have been noted here before, but this female thru-hiker's entry at trailjournals.com is one of several that refer to this guy, and not positively:


Before I left, I read the markered message on the shelter boards that were written by 'Spike', and wondered if this was the same guy that I had heard many stories about (and told to stay away from). He had hit another thru-hiker from New Zealand and knocked him to the ground at one of the shelters, and now this man had to have surgery on his shoulder and had to go home, unable to finish most of the hike. The message written on the boards talked about this person's military service and how we should all be thankful for those that have served, etc, and how he wanted to meet and shake the hands of other service members. I got a creepy feeling from this act of attention, and did not want to linger there any longer.I've also been following a couple of other thru-hiker's blogs, who have not mentioned Spike much, but were very well acquainted with the Mad Kiwis... and IMO, the Kiwis do not come off as the type to pick a fight, plus they're over 60.

And what's with the graffiti on the shelters? Leaving behind a message on a sign/in the registers is one thing, but according to the thrus this is full-on defacement...

I'm not going to post links because I don't want to get everyone up in arms again... they're easy to find if you know where to look, though.

No, I haven't posted in this forum till today, but I have been lurking, partly because I'm concerned about brushing up against this guy when I section N. Virginia/Shenandoah later this month...

mooseboy
05-08-2009, 18:11
OK, I just remembered someone posted the above TJ on the first page. The rest of my post still stands.

saimyoji
05-08-2009, 19:25
i just heard from a friend on the trail that some a hiker named Spike picked a fight with a guy who was passing out beers as trail magic and got his ass kicked...broken nose, broken elbow, and can't walk without support.....

...not sure if its the same guy.....

modiyooch
05-08-2009, 19:27
not too smart if he picked a fight with a gentleman passing out beer in sw va.

DapperD
05-08-2009, 19:30
Yeah, otherwise you're guilty until proved innocent. In some countries, I believe Japan may be one, this is the way it is. If charged with a crime ,you are considered guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Would assume it is this way to make it harder for criminals to be able to circumvent their crimes.

saimyoji
05-08-2009, 19:57
In some countries, I believe Japan may be one, this is the way it is. If charged with a crime ,you are considered guilty until you prove yourself innocent. Would assume it is this way to make it harder for criminals to be able to circumvent their crimes.

just cause you say you may be FOS doesn't make it okay to say something FOS.....

....Japan does retain the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, though under Japanese law, they can detain a suspect for up to 23 days, multiple times for the same inquisition, and treat that person as though they were a criminal: solitary, small cell, daylight conditions 24-7, minimal food/water, limited access to legal counsel....etc.

...BTW....Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Minnesota....all would have been better examples.

Desert Reprobate
05-08-2009, 20:06
No, really! All you gotta do is go talk to some inmates in prison. They will all tell you that they are innocent. :D

Yeah, I love it when an inmate comes into my office and I ask him what he's in for. Often they will answer "Allegedly....." I love to point out there is no alleged to it. They were convicted and are doing time.

DapperD
05-08-2009, 20:11
just cause you say you may be FOS doesn't make it okay to say something FOS.....

....Japan does retain the presumption of innocence until proven guilty, though under Japanese law, they can detain a suspect for up to 23 days, multiple times for the same inquisition, and treat that person as though they were a criminal: solitary, small cell, daylight conditions 24-7, minimal food/water, limited access to legal counsel....etc.

...BTW....Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Minnesota....all would have been better examples.Like I said, I thought Japan might be, just like you are not sure in your above post about Spike being the same person involved in a second supposed altercation. And don't have a clue what FOS means:eek:

saimyoji
05-08-2009, 20:25
Like I said, I thought Japan might be, just like you are not sure in your above post about Spike being the same person involved in a second supposed altercation. And don't have a clue what FOS means:eek:


no there's a difference.....you are an anti-asian racist who would rather see people like Spike protected by the law where I would rather see people like him dropped down inside a privy....

saimyoji
05-08-2009, 20:29
Like I said, I thought Japan might be, just like you are not sure in your above post about Spike being the same person involved in a second supposed altercation. And don't have a clue what FOS means:eek:


yes, i forgot.....my post doesn't make suppositions, merely offers a possible connection between the beatee and our disgustee...your post offers nothing but a dig on a country whose legal system you know nothing about.

sorry for the personal sounding attack...but......

Slimer
05-08-2009, 20:29
Racism???
Please point out this "racism"
Be very detailed and specific with your answer.

DapperD
05-08-2009, 20:29
no there's a difference.....you are an anti-asian racist who would rather see people like Spike protected by the law where I would rather see people like him dropped down inside a privy....I can tell you are in turmoil! Good luck to you!:-?

saimyoji
05-08-2009, 20:32
.... Spike being the same person involved in a second supposed altercation.

not supposed....

modiyooch
05-08-2009, 20:36
was he or not? can we get back to the topic ?

DapperD
05-08-2009, 20:40
no there's a difference.....you are an anti-asian racist who would rather see people like Spike protected by the law where I would rather see people like him dropped down inside a privy....And to finally prove you wrong , if I was an anti-asian racist, then why would I buy a brand new Japaneese SUV?:banana

saimyoji
05-08-2009, 20:48
And to finally prove you wrong , if I was an anti-asian racist, then why would I buy a brand new Japaneese SUV?:banana

because you also hate america.....



...off with his head.

DapperD
05-08-2009, 20:50
because you also hate america.....



...off with his head.Time to book your psychiatric appointment, and don't look at him/her as a psychiatrist but simply a "friend" you have to pay to talk to:banana

Chaco Taco
05-08-2009, 22:04
Geez guys enough of the pissing contest:rolleyes:

DapperD
05-08-2009, 23:16
no there's a difference.....you are an anti-asian racist who would rather see people like Spike protected by the law where I would rather see people like him dropped down inside a privy....Of coarse excepting the one youv'e chosen to spend the night down in:o

Bearpaw
05-08-2009, 23:20
Every body cool off and come back in the morning when I've re-opened the thread.

Thread is re-opened now.

Please try to keep discussions reasonably civil. Thanks.

Rockhound
05-09-2009, 08:00
i just heard from a friend on the trail that some a hiker named Spike picked a fight with a guy who was passing out beers as trail magic and got his ass kicked...broken nose, broken elbow, and can't walk without support.....

...not sure if its the same guy.....
Who got their assed kicked? Was it Spike or the beer guy?

curtisvowen
05-09-2009, 11:00
Ron called me a few days ago and I quizzed him on what happened at Groundhog Shelter.
Here's his reply as the events went down.
1. Shelter is full (Groundhog holds 6) but have 7 in there (there's a couple, knotted up).
2. Spike & female partner arrives....Spike is basically pissed at the situation (Ron's description)....the reason cause of a lack of bunk space.
3. Ron takes charge, let's Spike know that he can get out of the weather and cowboy camp on the ground, Ron directs everyone... "move your gear to make room".
4. In the mean time there is a camp fire outside of the shelter or was soon made after Spike arrives....don't know which but everyone has migrated to the camp fire.....because people are uneasy due to the abrasive attitude with Spike....
5. Ron realizes there is more gear in the way (his boots) and leaves the camp fire, enters the shelter and moves his boots.....as he is returning to the camp fire Spike assaults him.

I asked Ron the following questions:

Ron "during the relocation of gear etc., to make room for Spike & female partner did Spike get hit in the face with anyones gear"?.
Ron's reply is that he was not aware of that happening nor did he witness anything of that nature.

Ron "after leaving the fire and relocating your gear did you have any verbal conversations with Spike"....his answer was, NO.

This is all I know.

Post
05-09-2009, 11:59
Thanks for the info, but this post is really confusing.

There are bunks in the shelter?

If Spike was going to cowboy camp on the ground, why did anyone whose gear was in the shelter need to move their stuff?

If everyone was trying to be helpful and make room for Spike, why/how did Spike end up so pissed off that he (allegedly) assaulted someone?

Why did Ron (or anyone else) feel the need to "take charge" in the first place? Shifting gear around to make room in the shelter for a new arrival happens hundreds of time a day all along the AT, it doesn't require anyone to "take charge"...

Ron called me a few days ago and I quizzed him on what happened at Groundhog Shelter.
Here's his reply as the events went down.
1. Shelter is full (Groundhog holds 6) but have 7 in there (there's a couple, knotted up).
2. Spike & female partner arrives....Spike is basically pissed at the situation (Ron's description)....the reason cause of a lack of bunk space.
3. Ron takes charge, let's Spike know that he can get out of the weather and cowboy camp on the ground, Ron directs everyone... "move your gear to make room".
4. In the mean time there is a camp fire outside of the shelter or was soon made after Spike arrives....don't know which but everyone has migrated to the camp fire.....because people are uneasy due to the abrasive attitude with Spike....
5. Ron realizes there is more gear in the way (his boots) and leaves the camp fire, enters the shelter and moves his boots.....as he is returning to the camp fire Spike assaults him.

I asked Ron the following questions:

Ron "during the relocation of gear etc., to make room for Spike & female partner did Spike get hit in the face with anyones gear"?.
Ron's reply is that he was not aware of that happening nor did he witness anything of that nature.

Ron "after leaving the fire and relocating your gear did you have any verbal conversations with Spike"....his answer was, NO.

This is all I know.

Purple
05-09-2009, 13:02
i just heard from a friend on the trail that some a hiker named Spike picked a fight with a guy who was passing out beers as trail magic and got his ass kicked...broken nose, broken elbow, and can't walk without support.....

...not sure if its the same guy.....

If it wasn't Spike who got his ass kicked then maybe Spike and Zinkhan will cross paths. Wonder which one will win?? Gun verses sucker punch?
http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=219994&c=7

Gaiter
05-09-2009, 13:16
There are bunks in the shelter?

If Spike was going to cowboy camp on the ground, why did anyone whose gear was in the shelter need to move their stuff?

If everyone was trying to be helpful and make room for Spike, why/how did Spike end up so pissed off that he (allegedly) assaulted someone?

Why did Ron (or anyone else) feel the need to "take charge" in the first place? Shifting gear around to make room in the shelter for a new arrival happens hundreds of time a day all along the AT, it doesn't require anyone to "take charge"...

no bunks but it isn't that big
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/5/3/1/0/100_3514.jpg

who knows why spike was so pissed off.... its seems that has become his reputation

sounds like ron was just trying to be nice, if spikes been the pissant that he sounds like, good chance most people wouldn't have made room for him in a already full shelter

Purple
05-09-2009, 13:58
Ron called me a few days ago and I quizzed him on what happened at Groundhog Shelter.
Here's his reply as the events went down.
1. Shelter is full (Groundhog holds 6) but have 7 in there (there's a couple, knotted up).....
.

According to Jennifer & Greg Olsen there were 10 hikers in the shelter that night & snow on the ground .... The Olsen's(2) The Kiwi's(2) Vagrant, Atreyu, Sasasfras, Minnesota Smith, Spike & Little Engine
http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=268847
Wendy was not THERE - yet she is getting credit for most of the reporting. She has made changes in her journal, but apparently she got the info after the fact, but is hiking close to Spike & Little Engine, because she has made several other mentions of Spike.

I think curtisvowen meant "....the reason cause of a lack of bunk space." as a figure of speech. "Bunk space" meaning "a place to bunk down" or "lay your sleeping bag." Not an actual Bunk.

vamelungeon
05-09-2009, 14:00
If it wasn't Spike who got his ass kicked then maybe Spike and Zinkhan will cross paths. Wonder which one will win?? Gun verses sucker punch?
http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=219994&c=7

They just found a body near Zinkhan's jeep so it's likely he won't be able to play in this match.

Purple
05-09-2009, 14:10
They just found a body near Zinkhan's jeep so it's likely he won't be able to play in this match.

Do you have a link to this info? or just heard it on the news? DO they know if it is Zinkhan or someone else that he "disposed" of. Mo' Info Plez

Post
05-09-2009, 14:18
I think curtisvowen meant "....the reason cause of a lack of bunk space." as a figure of speech. "Bunk space" meaning "a place to bunk down" or "lay your sleeping bag." Not an actual Bunk.Okay, thanks. I've been to that shelter and definitely do not recall there being any bunks.

But this is still confusing...if Spike were going to cowboy camp on the ground, why was gear "in his way" inside the shelter? :confused:

vamelungeon
05-09-2009, 14:20
Do you have a link to this info? or just heard it on the news? DO they know if it is Zinkhan or someone else that he "disposed" of. Mo' Info Plez
It was the headline on both MSNBC and Fox websites a few minutes ago. No ID on the body yet, but I'd bet on it being Zinkhan. Maybe not but that's the simplest explanation.

vamelungeon
05-09-2009, 14:21
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/30658959/

modiyooch
05-09-2009, 14:22
Do you have a link to this info? or just heard it on the news? DO they know if it is Zinkhan or someone else that he "disposed" of. Mo' Info Plezhttp://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=219994&c=7 scroll down to the articles listed after this feature. I just read the article. they aren't saying much of anything yet. I bet it's him.

Post
05-09-2009, 14:24
Wendy was not THERE Who is Wendy?

Post
05-09-2009, 14:28
I bet it's him.
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/09/georgia.professor.shooting/index.html

From the article: "The body was concealed, the police statement said." :-?

modiyooch
05-09-2009, 14:28
Who is Wendy? well, if you read the 440 posts you would know that wendy is a thru hiker that has included spike in her journals. Just kidding about the "if you read" this thread has really gotten off topic and it's hard to get to the meat of it.

modiyooch
05-09-2009, 14:32
http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/09/georgia.professor.shooting/index.html

From the article: "The body was concealed, the police statement said." :-?
hopefully, naturally concealed by the bad weather that Atlanta has been having. We don't need any more homicides. let's break this thread out into it's proper thread.

Purple
05-09-2009, 14:56
http://www.accessnorthga.com/detail.php?n=219994&c=7 scroll down to the articles listed after this feature. I just read the article. they aren't saying much of anything yet. I bet it's him.

Let's hope it's Zinkhan (God may get me for saying that), but if it isn't then that might mean he is on a "killing spree" and MAYBE on the AT!

But getting back to Spike .... has anyone heard anymore about WHO he got into it with and where, not The Kiwi's - the lastest incident with the Trail Magic Guy. (how dare him mess with one of our angels :mad: Anyway, thats what I was searching the net for when I ran across the info on Zinkhan. I figured if Spike or The Trail Angel was that bad hurt, one of them might have went to the hospital and one might be in jail. Question is WHICH ONE????

Thats how all this supposition gets started. Someone posting just enough to peak your curiosity and then not giving the facts as to who, what, when and where. But I must admit Whiteblaze is better than any Soap that's on TV.

wakapak
05-09-2009, 17:42
Okay, thanks. I've been to that shelter and definitely do not recall there being any bunks.

But this is still confusing...if Spike were going to cowboy camp on the ground, why was gear "in his way" inside the shelter? :confused:

sounds like he was gonna cowboy camp on the ground under the overhang of the shelter, and people usually put their boots on the ground there, plus sometimes people put their backpacks there if they dont have anywhere to hang them in the shelter.

curtisvowen
05-09-2009, 19:24
POST,
look at the picture...you see any space for anything other then bodies? where's the gear going to go?
Duh, on the ground.

curtisvowen
05-09-2009, 19:25
Ron "taking charge" is just that...."hey guys we've new arrivals, let's make room".

Purple
05-09-2009, 19:59
I was going to post this on the new thread about Zinkhan but it seems "they" prefer to keep it in this threads so ....

Body concealed?! Sounds like someone else got to him before the cops did. Doesn't make sense otherwise. Even a crazy person isn't going to bury himself. What would be the purpose. They said the 2 guns were found "near" the body. Did not say a gun was found in his hand, which is where it would be if he shot himself. It's a muscle thing. Your muscle constrict upon death and what ever you are holding stays in your hand until it is pryed out.

More like he was trying to escape WITH someone and that person decided to take him out, before he took him/her out. Or he was found by someone who decided to take justice into their own hands.

Just found this latest update:

"Investigators also told Channel 2 Actions News reporter Anissa Centers that they found a couple of guns near Zinkhan's body, similar to weapons authorities said were used in the triple shooting.

Athens-Clarke County Police Chief Joseph Lumpkin said the body was found beneath the earth and hidden by dirt and brush. The GBI State Crime Laboratory confirmed positive identification Saturday evening"

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19416286/detail.html

How can someone commit suicide, place the guns(2) NEAR his body, not with it and then completely cover himself up with earth. SOMEONE took care of business!

Looks like they need to be looking for a second killer/vigilantee.

Chaco Taco
05-09-2009, 20:25
I was going to post this on the new thread about Zinkhan but it seems "they" prefer to keep it in this threads so ....

Body concealed?! Sounds like someone else got to him before the cops did. Doesn't make sense otherwise. Even a crazy person isn't going to bury himself. What would be the purpose. They said the 2 guns were found "near" the body. Did not say a gun was found in his hand, which is where it would be if he shot himself. It's a muscle thing. Your muscle constrict upon death and what ever you are holding stays in your hand until it is pryed out.

More like he was trying to escape WITH someone and that person decided to take him out, before he took him/her out. Or he was found by someone who decided to take justice into their own hands.

Just found this latest update:

"Investigators also told Channel 2 Actions News reporter Anissa Centers that they found a couple of guns near Zinkhan's body, similar to weapons authorities said were used in the triple shooting.

Athens-Clarke County Police Chief Joseph Lumpkin said the body was found beneath the earth and hidden by dirt and brush. The GBI State Crime Laboratory confirmed positive identification Saturday evening"

http://www.wsbtv.com/news/19416286/detail.html

How can someone commit suicide, place the guns(2) NEAR his body, not with it and then completely cover himself up with earth. SOMEONE took care of business!

Looks like they need to be looking for a second killer/vigilantee.

This discussion belongs in the UGA thread

Chaco Taco
05-09-2009, 20:27
Here is one of the multiple threads on the topic

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=50128

Purple
05-09-2009, 21:27
Thanks Chaco Taco - sorry

I am still wondering if there is any more news about Spike getting his ass kicked- how about it Saimyoji, you brought it up. Want to give us an update

Skidsteer
05-09-2009, 21:31
How can someone commit suicide, place the guns(2) NEAR his body, not with it and then completely cover himself up with earth. SOMEONE took care of business!

Sleeping pills.

I agree it sounds goofy though. The article never mentioned suicide.

Purple
05-09-2009, 22:20
"Fugitive murder suspect George Martin Zinkhan III dug his own grave and covered himself with debris before firing a single bullet into his head, investigators said Saturday."

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2009/05/09/body_found_near_zinkhan_car.html

George
05-09-2009, 23:09
you can shoot fataly and still have plenty of time to move around before blood loss will put you out

Chaco Taco
05-09-2009, 23:14
What does any of this have to do with the Assault on the AT near Hot Springs??

Purple
05-10-2009, 00:25
What does any of this have to do with the Assault on the AT near Hot Springs??

This WAS related to the AT because there was a full web page on the ATC web site with Zinkhan's picture warning hikers to lookout for him.
http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site...in_Zinkhan.htm (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site...in_Zinkhan.htm)

My mistake was mentioning that maybe Spike and Zinkhan should meet and take care of each others for us.

I still want to know about the report that Spike may have got his ass kicked by a a guy giving Trail Magic as reported by Saimyoji. I guess I'll go to TrailJournals and see what the hikers have to say about it. If I find anything I'll be back.

Sly
05-10-2009, 00:44
I am still wondering if there is any more news about Spike getting his ass kicked- how about it Saimyoji, you brought it up. Want to give us an update

I could be mistaken but I believe that the point of that post was you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

hoz
05-10-2009, 07:01
It's been a couple days and no Spike sightings or alleged altercations. Wonder if he has pulled out?

Lone Wolf
05-10-2009, 07:04
pulled out of what? he's probably just hikin' north like always

Bearpaw
05-10-2009, 10:24
I could be mistaken but I believe that the point of that post was you can't believe everything you read on the internet.

That's exactly the point.

LOTS of speculation. The only thing anyone has confirmed is that the Mad Kiwis are off the trail due to an injury, someone wrote graffiti in Overmountain Shelter, and ATC issued a statement of caution regarding the thru-hiker named Spike. The rest is speculation.

Post
05-10-2009, 11:20
ATC issued a statement of caution regarding the thru-hiker named Spike. I just looked around the ATC's site, could not find this. Can you post a link please? Thanks.

Bearpaw
05-10-2009, 19:46
I just looked around the ATC's site, could not find this. Can you post a link please? Thanks.

My apologies. It was the Roanoke ATC. Their president forwarded an e-mail to members on the subject. It is not a part of their main web page.

And the information from that e-mail may well be based on the same sort of speculation and gossip that has haunted this thread.

schnikel
05-17-2009, 19:35
Has there been any signs of Spike at Trail Days?

Chaco Taco
05-17-2009, 20:37
Has there been any signs of Spike at Trail Days?

I know that amongst the WBers we were around, the subject didnt even come up. As far as I know, no Spike

bonnermc
05-17-2009, 21:22
You didn't notice the feet at the upper edge of the photo...this is a big sign.

Yea but he wrote pretty much the same thing with a sharpy on the floor of the Mountaineer shelter. I didn't get a picture, but I am sure someone did.

traildust
05-18-2009, 11:36
I know that amongst the WBers we were around, the subject didnt even come up. As far as I know, no Spike

Just when your told this thread was closed..... look its back!!!!!!! No one wants to close this because it is the number one thread on this site for views. The public craves news of Spike.

Jack - Straw
05-18-2009, 11:47
Momma always said, nothin nice to say, don't say it.

Boy would he get off seeing close to 500 posts about him though...



Had to say that.

Newb
05-18-2009, 12:02
Maybe we should set up a Spike Twitter page.

Gray Blazer
05-18-2009, 12:12
This thread should be called An Assault on Your Senses.

modiyooch
05-18-2009, 12:14
what happened to wendy? she hasn't posted in her trail journal since 4/28

kanga
05-18-2009, 12:38
maybe spike assaulted her? (duh-duh-DUHHHHHH!)

Chaco Taco
05-18-2009, 19:06
Maybe Spike is imaginary:-?

Engine
05-18-2009, 19:26
Maybe Spike is imaginary:-?

Has anyone actually seen him, or is he an urban (or in this case, rural) legend?

Darwin again
05-18-2009, 19:31
I have information about spike but the mods won't let me post anymore.

Lone Wolf
05-18-2009, 20:12
Has anyone actually seen him, or is he an urban (or in this case, rural) legend?

i saw him at "The Place".

traildust
05-19-2009, 17:33
I have information about spike but the mods won't let me post anymore.

send it to me I will post it. Why would the moderators want to censor and restrict information? Afraid of being sued?

Chaco Taco
05-19-2009, 17:38
send it to me I will post it. Why would the moderators want to censor and restrict information? Afraid of being sued?
http://skins.hotbar.com/skins/mailskins/em/google_emoticons/emoti_26.gif

ed bell
05-19-2009, 18:57
send it to me I will post it. Why would the moderators want to censor and restrict information? Afraid of being sued?What Darwin is talking about has nothing to do with any information he may or may not have. He is free to submit any information he wants to. That's all I have to say about that.

Chaco Taco
05-19-2009, 20:43
I have exclusive video of the incident in question
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/EVA-Kirby/penguin_slap.gif

Engine
05-19-2009, 20:47
I have exclusive video of the incident in question
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/EVA-Kirby/penguin_slap.gif

Thanks Chaco, I just blew Sprite out my nose...Good stuff. :D

darkage
05-19-2009, 21:49
I have exclusive video of the incident in question
http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l127/EVA-Kirby/penguin_slap.gif

I couldn't stop LOL'ing for like 10 minutes .... heheh

fancyfeet
05-19-2009, 22:13
That's friggin' hilarious, Chaco! Brought tears to my eyes. :p

nufsaid
05-19-2009, 22:21
I have information about spike but the mods won't let me post anymore.

Then why can I see this post?

nufsaid
05-19-2009, 22:25
Thanks Chaco, I just blew Sprite out my nose...Good stuff. :D

Have to agree. A sucker punch to the back (shoulder). Got to give credit when credit is due.

ed bell
05-19-2009, 23:43
Then why can I see this post?Because there isn't one.

nufsaid
05-19-2009, 23:49
Because there isn't one.

Now I'm really confused. But that's OK.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

After receiving further information I am no longer confused. And stand by my original post.

modiyooch
05-20-2009, 07:41
do tell...

traildust
05-20-2009, 15:08
What Darwin is talking about has nothing to do with any information he may or may not have. He is free to submit any information he wants to. That's all I have to say about that.

Glad to see Darwin is free again to be a posting part of this forum. His grips and grievance aside, he sent me this info which I view as pretty straight forward and pertinent to the discussion.


"If Piker Spike is a real Marine and not a coward, he'll turn himself in to the police in Hot Springs and put the matter to rest."

The Spike information I came across completely by chance:

Trailphone.com audio journal entry at:
http://trailphone.net/hiker/200200/#map

Hiker named Boo Boo reporting from the NOC on 3/31/09, the most recent entry as of 19:16 hrs today.

This audio file is posted in a public forum is therefore available for anyone with Internet access.

===============================
Hope this gets this thread over the 28,000 number.

Chaco Taco
05-20-2009, 15:21
Glad to see Darwin is free again to be a posting part of this forum. His grips and grievance aside, he sent me this info which I view as pretty straight forward and pertinent to the discussion.


"If Piker Spike is a real Marine and not a coward, he'll turn himself in to the police in Hot Springs and put the matter to rest."

The Spike information I came across completely by chance:

Trailphone.com audio journal entry at:
http://trailphone.net/hiker/200200/#map

Hiker named Boo Boo reporting from the NOC on 3/31/09, the most recent entry as of 19:16 hrs today.

This audio file is posted in a public forum is therefore available for anyone with Internet access.

===============================
Hope this gets this thread over the 28,000 number.

This is not about Spike. It is about a guy named Walking Man.

traildust
05-20-2009, 15:56
thanks for the correction. you would know since you were there and getting engaged. how was the view from that tower?

A side note, this is an interesting way to document your hike. Audio files called in.

MOWGLI
05-20-2009, 16:06
Anyone else have any third or fourth hand misinformation that they can share?? Anyone?? :rolleyes:

Chaco Taco
05-20-2009, 16:11
Anyone else have any third or fourth hand misinformation that they can share?? Anyone?? :rolleyes:

I posted my video of the incident

Chaco Taco
05-20-2009, 16:12
thanks for the correction. you would know since you were there and getting engaged. how was the view from that tower?

A side note, this is an interesting way to document your hike. Audio files called in.

Its amazing how you drew the conclusion that this was a Spike incident when the name on the file was not given, merely speculation.

Pringles
05-20-2009, 16:19
Anyone else have any third or fourth hand misinformation that they can share?? Anyone?? :rolleyes:

I was at Doc's Knob Shelter about a week ago, and a forest service officer, complete with a sidearm, came in about an hour before sunset and asked me if I had seen Spike. I hadn't. He was going to go back to the last big turn and wait to see if Spike came along. He was going to stay at that turn for a few hours and wait. That's first hand... . :(

I don't think Spike came by during his "watch." Is that third or fourth hand? :)

Pringles

Chaco Taco
05-20-2009, 16:23
I was at Doc's Knob Shelter about a week ago, and a forest service officer, complete with a sidearm, came in about an hour before sunset and asked me if I had seen Spike. I hadn't. He was going to go back to the last big turn and wait to see if Spike came along. He was going to stay at that turn for a few hours and wait. That's first hand... . :(

I don't think Spike came by during his "watch." Is that third or fourth hand? :)

Pringles

Most everything on this thread is speculation.

zoidfu
05-20-2009, 16:45
Do you think spike is really law enforcement? Is he working a case undercover? How else do you explain his not being picked up yet?

Oh yeah, 9/11 was an inside job. Is this related?
Also, where was he on November 22, 1963?
Was he anywhere near Roswell, NM on July 7, 1947?
http://i131.photobucket.com/albums/p306/zoidfu2_bucket/6a00e553a9e7ec8834011168a2382f970c-.jpg

DaSchwartz
05-20-2009, 17:18
To me, this whole thread is opening up whiteblaze and it's owners to a major lawsuit should anything actually due to speculation on this thread. And yes, message board owners can be sued and forced to spend $1,000's to defend themselves in court. The owners of trailforums.com were smart to eliminate the thread on this nonsense the moment it started there.

zoidfu
05-20-2009, 17:22
To me, this whole thread is opening up whiteblaze and it's owners to a major lawsuit should anything actually due to speculation on this thread. And yes, message board owners can be sued and forced to spend $1,000's to defend themselves in court. The owners of trailforums.com were smart to eliminate the thread on this nonsense the moment it started there.

I'm worried about being "disappeared" now that I've exposed the truth and asked some tough questions.

MOWGLI
05-20-2009, 17:31
I'm worried about being "disappeared" now that I've exposed the truth and asked some tough questions.

Your worried. The rest of us are hopeful. ;)

Chaco Taco
05-20-2009, 17:34
To me, this whole thread is opening up whiteblaze and it's owners to a major lawsuit should anything actually due to speculation on this thread. And yes, message board owners can be sued and forced to spend $1,000's to defend themselves in court. The owners of trailforums.com were smart to eliminate the thread on this nonsense the moment it started there.
Lawsuit for what?

zoidfu
05-20-2009, 17:35
Your worried. The rest of us are hopeful. ;)
You won't get rid of me that easily:) Maybe next year I'll make it to trail days and you'll get to have an ol' fashioned burning at the stake.

zoidfu
05-20-2009, 17:35
Lawsuit for what?

For nothing. We're allowed to talk about stuff.

Rusticus
05-20-2009, 21:38
I was in rockfish gap outfitters today and heard from the ridgerunner, mike, that spike has been caught

Chaco Taco
05-20-2009, 22:07
I was in rockfish gap outfitters today and heard from the ridgerunner, mike, that spike has been caught

Caught for what?

Lone Wolf
05-20-2009, 22:08
I was in rockfish gap outfitters today and heard from the ridgerunner, mike, that spike has been caught

caught by who?

JokerJersey
05-20-2009, 22:48
Man, I'm confused...I'm not even sure who was supposed to have been seen by a guy who heard from a dude that lived next to some guy who saw on TV that some guy on the news knew a hiker who did something to someone...somewhere.

Chaco Taco
05-20-2009, 22:51
Dont worry ya'll i got this. I caught him and got him to the AT Police
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_Xr6rKvAJsfM/SbBtucHaFWI/AAAAAAAAARs/QMt1FObfm2c/s400/Choco+Taco.jpg

modiyooch
05-20-2009, 22:54
why don't you follow up your phone call to atc and get the details?