View Full Version : Good Lightweight 85L or so pack
I know Lightweight and 85L dont go together, BUT I really need a pack that size and I would like a light one. I will be holding about 20-30 lbs of gear plus food and water. This is not for a AT trip or anything. I am a Boy Scout leader and I will be using the pack for Scouting backpack trips and a lot of backpacking trips just with me and my son. BUT being a Scout leader means I am usually bring some extra things to make it easier on younger kids.
Any suggestions ?
Thanks,
J
Let me add, right now I am using a High Sierra Long Trail 90 pack.
Thanks,
J
That's an interesting question. There hasn't been much development into lighter packs for very heavy loads, but there should be, especially for applications like you describe, Boy Scout Leaders, or Dad's with lots of kids. 2 pounds off a 6 pound pack for carrying 60 pounds is more important than 2 pounds off a 3 pound pack for carrying 20 pounds.
For 30 pounds of food, and say up to another 20 in food and water, I think a pack could be as light as 5% of that, so 2.5 pounds, and still be comfortable. With higher volume it gets a little more difficult, so perhaps 3 pounds. The other thing that makes a pack neccessarily heavier is if you don't want to be too fussy about what you are carrying and how you are carrying it. Stuff like pots and pans and cans of spam with corners jutting out everywhere, or if there is alot of stuff you want to jam in really hard and compress the snot out of using your pack as a compression sack. That makes a pack needlessly heavy, but it can be useful. That sort of abuse can destroy even an 8 pound pack if you do it right. :)
Anyhow, I am not sure a 85 litre beast exists that is much under 6 pounds,
but in theory you should be able to build one for 3 pounds, with comfort, and still have some flexibility in not knowing what you need to toss in it. The extra volume and external frame helps. Using a big 72"x28"x0.375" closed cell foam pad as a pack liner and sleeping pad would also allow the pack to be lighter and stronger and easier to pack, even at the expense of taking up 750ci of pack volume.
I think the old model Kelty White Cloud could be reduced to be as light as 3 pounds, but I think it was only 6500ci, and less than that when reduced to 3 pounds.
I think if you are willing to have something custom made, you could save 3 pounds,
which would be more than worth it, I think, if you had to carry 50-60 pounds.
YOu are really not going to find anything lightweight in that volume. I used to Boy Scout camp and hike with a Lowe Alpine Contour IV which was (I believe) 85L+15L? It was huge.
Something to think about it helping the kids pack the proper equipment BEFORE the trip, to prevent having to carry the scouts equipment. That would be the place that I would start. Levi's and canned food take up a lot of weight and space.
That is true, the biggest gains are in reducing what scouts, and scout leaders, need to bring. Even once that was done however, I think there is still a need for such a pack for such and application. The extra volume is always needed for such an application, if only to make it easier and faster to pack, but also for odds and ends that ALWAYS show up, even with the most disciplined gaggle of geese. Even if you limit the load to under 30 pounds, there is still an application of super high volume even at that load.
Super big packs exist, whether they are needed or not. It would be nice if there was a light one. UL and Light packs have expanded up to 4500ci with packs like the Pinnacle. They need to keep going, for applications such as this. Even if we took the more moderately light ULA line as an example, that could be scaled up to perhaps 4 pounds for a 8500ci pack. DIY or custom built, I think 3 pounds is doable and worth doing.
Not so much for older scouts, but for cubs and younger scouts, or Dad's with lots of younger kids, I think the need exists for such a pack. That assumes two things. One, that you want to do high miles with young kids, like I do with my daughter. Two, that you don't believe that growing kids should carry as much weight as they usually do. My 10 year old daughter is about 48" tall and about 50 pounds, I limit her to under 8 pounds, which basically means I carry everything, and we do up to 20km a day. In her guide unit they don't do hikes like that, but they could. If they did, it would help if adults could carry more. This makes sense for hike with kids in the 6-12 year old range. They shouldn't be carrying that much, and they really don't need all that much either, but it would help if adults could carry more and there was a light pack to do it with.
Logistically, it would also be easier when hiking with younger kids if we got away from this model that kids should all be self-sufficient and packed like adults. Even adults shouldn't be packed like most adults, but kids especially. It would be nice to see Scouts develop a different hiking model for cubs and brownies, to get them out hiking longer hikes sooner, rather than what amounts to alot of needless gear and aborted attempts that end up as car camping, at best.
We should look to nomadic and other cultures that hike naturally with their kids. At what age do the kids start carrying pack? I think we would find that kids go through three stages. First they are small enough to be easily carried, and like to sleep while doing so. This is for good reason. Then, they grow longer legs, but still rather frail bodies, so they have little trouble keeping up by carrying themselves, but still require little food, though they still can't carry extra weight. Then in the third stage, they can start carrying some of the share of the weight, but still not as much as once fully grown. The lines between these stages are somewhat fuzzy, but parallel with their natural mental and physical and social development, for natural reasons. Packs on 4-10 year olds make very little sense, generally speaking, especially when the goal is to get them outside, walking.
mister krabs
05-05-2009, 12:52
perhaps the golite odyssey might suit you? 5500ci 3 1/2 lbs, relatively cheap.
I think the point was that he has a need for something bigger, in terms of volume. This makes sense to me, especially for a taller adult, hiking with lots of younger kids. As with UL packs under 4500ci, you should be able to have more volume without adding much weight. A pack could be as light as 5% of weight carried, and more volume is often useful even when the stuff carried isn't particularly heavy. Faster and easier more verastile to pack, and less strain on the pack if nothing is overcompressed.
Why not DIY or custom build?
bigcranky
05-05-2009, 13:07
Osprey still makes the Aether 85, which is just under 5 pounds. Not bad for a large-volume pack.
I got mixed up in my last couple of posts and started thinking 8500ci rather than 85 litre, so the GoLite Odyssey is within range at at 5500ci, 90 litre, and lighter than most big commercial packs at only 3.5 pounds. Sorry mister krabs.
http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5260&s=1
90 litre is actually closer to 6000ci than 5500ci, but I don't have a calculator.
I presume the volume is somewhere in between 5500ci and 90 litre.
I know Lightweight and 85L dont go together, BUT I really need a pack that size and I would like a light one. I will be holding about 20-30 lbs of gear plus food and water. This is not for a AT trip or anything. I am a Boy Scout leader and I will be using the pack for Scouting backpack trips and a lot of backpacking trips just with me and my son. BUT being a Scout leader means I am usually bring some extra things to make it easier on younger kids.
Any suggestions ?
Thanks,
J
I'm a leader in my sons troop. I just don't get the Boy Scout ways of backpacking; always carrying a lot of useless heavy stuff.
Osprey still makes the Aether 85, which is just under 5 pounds. Not bad for a large-volume pack.
This is the one I have been looking at.
I'm a leader in my sons troop. I just don't get the Boy Scout ways of backpacking; always carrying a lot of useless heavy stuff.
Why, because we tell the boys whats right and what wrong then we let them learn from experience, and try to help them on the way. That is how a boy led troop works.
mister krabs
05-05-2009, 15:06
I got mixed up in my last couple of posts and started thinking 8500ci rather than 85 litre, so the GoLite Odyssey is within range at at 5500ci, 90 litre, and lighter than most big commercial packs at only 3.5 pounds. Sorry mister krabs.
http://www.golite.com/Product/proddetail.aspx?p=PA5260&s=1
90 litre is actually closer to 6000ci than 5500ci, but I don't have a calculator.
I presume the volume is somewhere in between 5500ci and 90 litre.
perhaps they miscalculated, I got the specs from them.
3 lbs. 8 oz. | 1.59 kg
Volume: 5500 in3 | 90 liters
$200.00
mister krabs
05-05-2009, 15:13
Why, because we tell the boys whats right and what wrong then we let them learn from experience, and try to help them on the way. That is how a boy led troop works.
My version,
"You want to bring that? Well, OK, but you're carrying it! You might want to think about a lighter alternative like..."
Then I bring spares that we really *will* need.
Course my boy is still in cubs, but the same principle applies already. My boy knows that carrying more than what you have to sucks. He got the picture when we went hiking with his "uncle skillet" who carrys a 9" cast iron pan and his son who carried 6 pocketknives and a couple lbs of steel shot for his slingshot. :D
I was a scout and a scout leader for a short time, and I completely agree with the above statements. But, with some good pre-planning, a lot of the larger weight items can be taken care of. There is often a lot of redundancy with larger items (cooking items, including food, equipment such as giant gerber tools, shovels, etc) that could be culled out at the meeting pre trip.
I also know that it is true that parents will often add extra items to packs. A good way to stop that from happening is to have the scouts bring the packs to a meeting, do a shakedown and then keep the packs from going home. This was a method that was used when I was a scout in a scout run troop.
But back to the original subject, that golite pack looks like a good alternative that you are looking for. But if you are intending to pick up for other people, you may want to consider the idea that a pack with beefier suspension may feel better in the long run for you (an expedition pack for example). When I went to Philmont the last time, I ended up carrying another leaders PACK strapped to mine due to a physical ailment in the last two days of the trip. I was thanking myself that I brought a large enough pack that had a great suspension system that allowed me to do that. Tipping the scales at 80lbs (without food because we were finishing that day), I was glad I had a well padded hip belt instead of the one on my Aether 70.
Although, no one was discussing this situation (more of a family trip, or with younger scouts), I feel for the research you are trying to do, I am just giving alternatives that are available.
skinewmexico
05-05-2009, 17:27
I use my Golite Pinnacle for the situation you describe, but it's pretty unpleasant when it gets loaded up. Better to put your foot down about un-needed equipment the boys are carrying.
Why, because we tell the boys whats right and what wrong then we let them learn from experience, and try to help them on the way. That is how a boy led troop works.
My point was we are not helping. Most BS troops teach bring a lot of heavy useless gear. And I almost forgot, ankle high boots.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-05-2009, 17:36
The Teton Fox 75+10 weighs 5.5 pounds. It is also sold under a bunch of other names including Dueter. I put a review up a couple of weeks back
My point was we are not helping. Most BS troops teach bring a lot of heavy useless gear. And I almost forgot, ankle high boots.
Unfortunately for me I am only a Assistant Scout Master so I dont get to make many of the decisions, but thats another LONG story. My pack was 26 lbs total before food and water for an overnight trip.
The Scout master, who made many of the decision on our first backpacking trip had a 45 lb pack before food and water.
The boys actually paired up and shared cooking items, but many of them carried canned foods such as canned spaghetti and ravioli and meat balls.
I wore trail runners but many people actually did wear heavy leather boots for a two day trip of 5 miles a day.
J
Jayboflavin04
05-06-2009, 11:09
JAK....I am gonna start calling you "Spock"...you are always breaking things down logically....makes me laugh! Not bashin your balls just sayin.
My opinion is that canned food is like a batting donut. Once you eat the food, your pack is almost 2-4 pounds lighter. That makes the second day a BLAST :D
JAK....I am gonna start calling you "Spock"...you are always breaking things down logically....makes me laugh! Not bashin your balls just sayin.Nowhere am I so desperately needed as among a shipload of illogical humans.