View Full Version : Bulk/Wholesale Freeze-dried foods
JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 11:42
Doing my research and planning for a 2011 NOBO has brought me to all sorts of websites that sell pre-packaged "backpacker" meals. I've tried a few of them and they were pretty decent. The only problem...expensive!
Then I had a thought about buying in bulk and repackaging the bulk items in single serving containers to be put into mail drops to avoid having to resupply as often in towns. I have a very solid support structure in place who are more than willing to spend the time, energy, and responsibility of doing weekly mail drops, so let's not get into that arguement.
The way it broke down was a single package of Mountain House foods was around $6. A can of the same stuff was $30 but had 8 servings in it. Net savings was around $20 a can vs. buying prepackaged. The only thing that would add to the cost is the price of a vacuum sealer and packaging. Since family members already have a vacuum unit, I would only be looking at the price of packaging. The best offer I saw was a 160-day supply of 3 meals/day for around $2k.
Simply, is buying/repacking bulk freeze-dried foods a feasible idea or should I spend the time to learn more about dehydrating my own foods? Has anyone tried it? How much does it inflate or reduce your budget?
You don't need to dehydrate the meals, but you can do better price wise (and nutrition) by making your own meals! Or by taking commercial meals and adding more things to them.
The components are worth buying (vegetables, fruits, etc). Eating the actual freeze dried meals for 4 to 6 months would be very tiring. Most of the meals are neither high in calories, fat and fiber. If you do go this route be sure to add more veggies and as well some oil the meals. A one serving of commercial freeze dried food (say Mountain House) is not a one serving at home ;-)
JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 12:57
No no, what I meant by dehydrating the meals was should I dehydrate my OWN meals (home-prepped stuff) OR should I go with bulk stuff and repackage, not should I dehydrate the pre-packaged stuff. I've already tried to pre-packaged stuff and know there is no reason at all to dehydrate something that is already dehydrated/freeze-dried. :D
I've seen a couple posts here about dehydrating things like pasta dinners, meat, jerky, etc. so I was thinking about going that route so I can pick and choose my own meals. The counter to that is buying in bulk and repackaging. I'm just trying to decide between the two. I don't mind dehydrating my own stuff, since time isn't really an issue, but if it winds up being the same price one way as opposed to the other, I'd rather save myself the time. :D
Frankly, on the subject of getting tired of eating the same things for days/weeks, I've already been through that and don't mind that much. The first 2 months I spent in Kuwait were 3 MRE's a day and there isn't much variety in those cases. I actually thought about going with MRE's since I'm very familiar in that department, but they are even MORE expensive.
Reason it all got down to this was more of a budgetary concern. Since I've seen most people say you should take $3-4k with you for a thru, I was trying to figure out how much of that is actually food expense and how much of it is doing things I'm not really interested in, like partying or drinking or whatever else.
But from what it seems like you are saying, I can spend far less on prepping my own but just supplementing them with the bulk stuff?
bigcranky
05-07-2009, 13:07
Quick thought experiment: you spend $2000 on freeze dried food, spend a month repackaging it, and break your leg on your first day on the Trail. (Happened to a friend of mine. The broken leg thing.)
On the question of make vs. buy, I am firmly in the camp of "make." It's fine to buy dried or freeze-dried ingredients in bulk, but I like to make my own meals. There are plenty of good hiking cookbooks out there, but Sarbar's is one of the best. Check out her freezer bag cooking web site (see link in her post above.) It's certainly possible to make and vacuum seal all your meals ahead of time, and have them shipped to Post Offices and hotels or hostels up the trail. That's a fairly traditional method of food resupply.
Good luck.
JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 13:20
Quick thought experiment: you spend $2000 on freeze dried food, spend a month repackaging it, and break your leg on your first day on the Trail. (Happened to a friend of mine. The broken leg thing.)
Well, you can apply that logic to just about anything. If I went out and spent $1k on gear just to hike the trail and then went out and broke a leg on day one, did I waste the $1k on gear? Of course not. If I buy something that has a 20-year shelf life and go out and break a leg on day 1, I'm sure it'll still be good once my leg heals. :D
Regardless, I'll be doing some more research on it. I'm firmly in the catagory of "measure twice, cut once" when it comes to planning. Maybe over the next year I can try doing a little of both of what I'm thinking of just to be able to have personally tested it, but it never hurts to ask.
RichardD
05-07-2009, 14:01
I prepared my own meals from bulk freeze dried ingredients for my two hikes last Summer and I am doing the same for this year. The result was that my pack was much lighter and I ate very well. I used a lot of vegetables and fruit in my meals. I used Sarbars book and "Backpacking Gourmet" as guides and used some vacuum sealed some freezer bag.
I found bulk freeze dried meat products and eggs at "Nitro Pack" and lots of freeze dried vegetables and fruits at Amazon under the name "Just tomatoes" etc. (substitute fruit or vegetable name). Many other ingredients such as milk powder, dried mushrooms, dried onions and a variety of spices and peppers at the supermarket. I was very pleased with the result and am in the process of preparing seven weeks of food for this Summer. Of course your job to prepare for six months is more daunting.
I found that several of my vacuum packs did not stand up to shipping and the rigors of being carried in my pack, about 15% of the packages lost their vacuum. This year I am double sealing to see if that helps.
I did not do a cost analysis to compare with complete freeze dried meals but I think the cost of preparing my own was a fraction of the cost of the complete meals. I also had meals that were more to my liking and they occupied much less space.
JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 14:26
Thanks RichardD, that's pretty much what I was looking for.
My parent are retired and my mother has already told me she would be more than happy not only to ship the stuff, but to help prep the vacuum packs ahead of time, so at least the work will be cut in half. Nice to have parents you not only love, but like as well, not to mention being supportive of the insane ideas I cook up.
Thanks for the heads up on the packaging not holding up. I'll do some trial runs this season and next to see if I can perfect a method before it really matters. If you find a solution, let me know and I'll make sure to do the same!
by day 2 you;ll be off schedule. just walk. don't plan too far ahead
lone wolf said it best.
JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 14:51
Thanks for the advice, I'll take it into account, though I'll continue to plan regardless. :D
PS: And buy some desiccant packets (like these http://www.packitgourmet.com/Silica-Gel-Desiccants-p309.html ) for tucking in your meals no matter which way you go. For meals you will be storing for months this will give you a lot of insurance for little cost :)
Combined with food vaccing it is a great system!
JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 15:05
PS: And buy some desiccant packets (like these http://www.packitgourmet.com/Silica-Gel-Desiccants-p309.html ) for tucking in your meals no matter which way you go. For meals you will be storing for months this will give you a lot of insurance for little cost :)
Combined with food vaccing it is a great system!
ROFL, I never even thought of that. Great little tip there! If I start pulling them out of all the computer parts I deal with now, I might actually be able to save enough to not have to buy any. :D
Blissful
05-07-2009, 15:21
ATC has a pretty good cookbook in their online bookstore that you can use to make your own dinners. We did that and I still use some of the recipes for my section hikes. It's good though if you have someone on the homrefront who can help make them up as you hike. In case you don't want certain ones anymore.
We got our dehydrator at a yard sale for $4.
bigcranky
05-07-2009, 15:56
I'm sorry if my response came off as negative. I didn't mean it that way. I was pointing out one advantage of buying food along the way -- that if one gets off the trail for any reason, one doesn't have a pile of food back home or waiting in post offices up the trail.
Other advantages of buying along the way include: (1) buying different food as your tastes change, (2) buying more (or less) food as your appetite changes, (3) buying more (or less) food as your hiking plans change -- you can pick up an extra few days of food and keep hiking if you like, (4) access to fresh food, fruits, veggies, stuff that hikers usually don't get, (5) meeting local people in towns along the trail, (6) not being tied down to picking up maildrops in a specific place on a specific day.
I've done it both ways, with maildrops and buying in local stores. For a shorter hike, like maybe a one-week section, I actually prefer a mail drop. I don't waste as much time trying to get to town, get to the store, figure out what I need, find it, repackage it, and get back to the trail. I've done all that work ahead of time, and it helps.
For a longer hike, I now prefer to buy along the way. I like the more relaxed approach, not being tied down to a schedule, being open to serendipity. Go with the flow and all that.... There has been so much development near the Trail in the last 20 years that it's fairly easy to find well-stocked grocery stores now.
If you have relatives who can help with the packaging and mailing process, that's great. It gives you a lot more flexibility in what you get, and how much of it, and when/where it arrives. And it cuts down on the time you spend in town dealing with food.
The whole thing is really your choice. If you can get out and do some longer section hikes and see what you like, great.
JokerJersey
05-07-2009, 16:45
I'm sorry if my response came off as negative. I didn't mean it that way. I was pointing out one advantage of buying food along the way -- that if one gets off the trail for any reason, one doesn't have a pile of food back home or waiting in post offices up the trail.
...snip...
The whole thing is really your choice. If you can get out and do some longer section hikes and see what you like, great.
Yeah, I figured that's how you meant it and I really didn't try to look at it negatively, hence the smiley at the end. Just seems funny that on one hand you have people telling you to spend time planning and others that say, just get your money together and go. I know I'll have to figure it out the hard way in the end, but every little scrap I can glean now is one less I'll have to learn on the trail.
I'm actually planning for about 12-15 2-6 day trips of anywhere from 20-40 miles this year to break in the gear and myself, then as much of two sections of the AT next year (PA and NJ) that I can cram in on my work schedule before I actually get out there. I'm sure the actual experience will help me better to plan for the thru in 2011, but like I said, every little crumb helps.
Plus, I never get mad at those who are dispensing advice. I asked the questions and I'm getting free answers....can't really beat that. So really, thank you for taking the time. :D
borntobeoutdoors
05-14-2009, 23:44
I prepared my own meals from bulk freeze dried ingredients for my two hikes last Summer and I am doing the same for this year. The result was that my pack was much lighter and I ate very well. I used a lot of vegetables and fruit in my meals. I used Sarbars book and "Backpacking Gourmet" as guides and used some vacuum sealed some freezer bag.
I found bulk freeze dried meat products and eggs at "Nitro Pack" and lots of freeze dried vegetables and fruits at Amazon under the name "Just tomatoes" etc. (substitute fruit or vegetable name). Many other ingredients such as milk powder, dried mushrooms, dried onions and a variety of spices and peppers at the supermarket. I was very pleased with the result and am in the process of preparing seven weeks of food for this Summer. Of course your job to prepare for six months is more daunting.
I found that several of my vacuum packs did not stand up to shipping and the rigors of being carried in my pack, about 15% of the packages lost their vacuum. This year I am double sealing to see if that helps.
I did not do a cost analysis to compare with complete freeze dried meals but I think the cost of preparing my own was a fraction of the cost of the complete meals. I also had meals that were more to my liking and they occupied much less space.
If the food is dehydrated, you need not worry if the package doesn't hold the vacuum. The food will hold up fine unless you are in extremely humid weather and even then unless it takes on a lot of moisture, you're fine.
I vacuum pack primarily to compress the package size down. I have had dehydrated food last for well over a year in a zip lock stored in a cool dry place.
There are four reasons why a bag may lose air.
1. A minute particle of food in the seal
2. A little wrinkle in the bag where the seal is.
3. Dried food, especially pasta often has an abrasive edge which can puncture the bag.
4. A defective bag.
Do the following to try to prevent the bag from taking on air:
1. Wipe any food reside from the top of the bag where the seal will be.
2. Pull the edges of the bag tight when the sealing process begins to insure there are no wrinkles.
3. Stop the vacuuming process before it pulls the bag too tight against any sharp edges. I have found that if I "massage" the food in the bag a little and spread it out a little rather then bunch the food together and seal, I get less instances of the bags losing their seal.
Hawk
I just recently started playing around with the dehydrator and am enjoying it. It irritated me to pay $9 for a package of Mary Jane's rice and beans, when I could make my own for a few cents. I figure I've paid back the cost of the dehydrator in ten nights of camping.
If you go the Mountain House route, buying #10 cans is slightly cheaper than buying the individual packs, but it's not as favorable as you might think. The "servings" listed on the cans are too small for someone who is hiking. When I'm hiking I want to have at least 500 calories per meal. The "servings" are as low as 200 or 250. So a can only holds half as many servings as you might think.
Mountain House has also cracked down on their distributors, limiting the discounts they can offer. (This may be an illegal, anti-competitive practice on their part.) I used to be able to get a 23% discount on MH products from ldpcampingfood.com. No more.
I still agree with Baltimore Jack: if cost is your main concern on a thru-hike, buying along the way is going to be the cheapest and easiest on you as the hiker.
But, while all the preparation might not be necessary, it can be an enjoyable way to pass the months between now and when you can leave on your hike. I would urge you to get out and backpack on every free weekend and holiday between now and then. Try out all those food systems before you build up a mega-stockpile of anything.
JokerJersey
05-17-2009, 19:17
But, while all the preparation might not be necessary, it can be an enjoyable way to pass the months between now and when you can leave on your hike. I would urge you to get out and backpack on every free weekend and holiday between now and then. Try out all those food systems before you build up a mega-stockpile of anything.
Yeah, I'm trying to get out as much as possible right now. So far, 3 of my next 4 weekends are filled with hiking/backpacking trips of at least 2 days/3 nights with average milage around 8-10 miles a day. Some of the locations I'm finding to go aren't quite where I want to be, since pitch pine and sand don't really compare to mountain valleys and deep hardwood forest hiking to me. Have been thinking about a dehydrator and have looked into a couple of the Nesco ones. Since we are working on a budget and need hydration bladders for our packs more right now, it's going to have to wait a few weeks before I can start really messing around with making my own stuff. :D
CampGirl
05-18-2009, 09:21
ROFL, I never even thought of that. Great little tip there! If I start pulling them out of all the computer parts I deal with now, I might actually be able to save enough to not have to buy any. :D
That sounds like a great idea, but it probably wouldn't actually work.
On the sillica gel, as soon as they're exposed to the air, they begin to absorb both oxygen and moisture. They can only take so much, so once they absorb all they can take, they're no good any more.
If you happen to come across clay desiccants, they can be reused. They just have clay in them so you can bake them once they've been used to dry them out again. They don't absorb oxygen, just moisture but they do actually work really well. I use these in a lot of my dehydrated food and I've been really happy with them.
lustreking
05-18-2009, 15:02
If you happen to come across clay desiccants, they can be reused. They just have clay in them so you can bake them once they've been used to dry them out again.
I was under the impression that you could do that with silica gel, too. Am I wrong?
CampGirl
05-21-2009, 14:13
I was under the impression that you could do that with silica gel, too. Am I wrong?
I’ve never heard that you can reuse the silica gel desiccants and the packages that we order don’t say that they can be reused (versus the clay desiccants which specifically say that they can be heated and reused). It might be fine to reuse them but since the manufacturer doesn’t give instructions on how to do it or say that it’s ok to heat the silica gel without causing any sort of damage, I don’t know that I would do it.
I've used www.justomatoes.com for fruits and veggies, you can buy in bulk there, cheaper to order directly from them (well it was a couple years ago)
Good Eats Dehydrating episodes:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xjsOIcx4tFA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTe4EZbeSkY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rIK4DVLHf7Y
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfI0NKl-Kq0