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RevoRunner
05-09-2009, 22:02
I had a chance to stay on top of Mt. Sterling last night close to the tower. It was very windy but not as cold as I expected. Anyhow, a couple of hikers that camped in the next site over had their packs (they were tied together) drug down the trail. The bear (which probably smelled the gatoraid that once was in the bottle) bit into the bottle and was able to puncture the nalgene (pretty impressive).

At the horse tie up stand there were gas cans (probably full of water) and several bags of cement. The bear tore into bags drug them around the woods and punctured through the plastic gas cans.

We hiked out with the other hikers and reported the incident.

I wonder how much bear activity goes on at each site? This was my second trip to the Smokies and the second incident with wild animals.

Be safe out there.

Manwich
05-09-2009, 22:14
Thanks for letting us know, we'll get right on it...


http://funnypicturesabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/catchbearanimals-1.jpg

Egads
05-09-2009, 22:20
Thanks for letting us know, we'll get right on it...


http://funnypicturesabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/catchbearanimals-1.jpg

I'm LMAO Totem

beakerman
05-10-2009, 04:28
Thanks for letting us know, we'll get right on it...


http://funnypicturesabout.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/catchbearanimals-1.jpg
nope not funny. When I was a youngster in college I was just about this close:|| to being mauled by a black bear and through no fault of my own I just happened to step out from the green briar at exactly the wrong time between mom and cub. We had the old Mexican stand off for about a minute--seemed some where between an hour and a lifetime--I had to clean out my shorts afterwards...I still can't stand the sght of a bear. I'm lucky to be here really but any way have fun while you can!! honestly I can't stand bear to this day it;s the only land animal I fear--not even the IRS or FBI at my door rattle me as much as a bear on TV.....it sucks.

fancyfeet
05-10-2009, 04:44
Bears like plastic. When I was on trail crew in the Smokies, a bear got some of our water bottles and shin guards.

Wheeler
05-10-2009, 04:44
The IRS might have cleaned your shorts for you

Rockhound
05-10-2009, 07:34
So youy were between a mom and her cubs and you were not attacked? so I guess that helps to dispell the "getting between a black bear and her cubs" myth. Yes this holds true for grizzlies but not for black bears. they are just interested in your food. That motherly instinct is absent in black bears. Also, I have heard of many hikers carrying bear spray on the AT. Can someone anyone provide an example of bearspray being used on a bear on the AT? Anyone?

toothpick
05-10-2009, 08:21
If it was up to the IRS you wouldn't have any shorts to crap in in the first place. Given the choice I prefer the bear.

SlowLightTrek
05-10-2009, 10:02
So youy were between a mom and her cubs and you were not attacked? so I guess that helps to dispell the "getting between a black bear and her cubs" myth. Yes this holds true for grizzlies but not for black bears. they are just interested in your food. That motherly instinct is absent in black bears. Also, I have heard of many hikers carrying bear spray on the AT. Can someone anyone provide an example of bearspray being used on a bear on the AT? Anyone?

I have this. Its 10% pepper concentrate whereas the stuff you buy at the outfitter is 1-2% pepper concentrate. It also has tear gas with it. Its only good for 10-12 ft. It's alot lighter than the outfitters too. It weighs 2.3 oz. I also read a study that 50% of the people who used guns to deter a bear were attacked whereas 0% of people who used pepper spray to deter a bear were attacked.

SlowLightTrek
05-10-2009, 10:02
forgot the link here it is http://www.mace.com/index.php/product/index/id/20

vamelungeon
05-10-2009, 10:06
I have this. Its 10% pepper concentrate whereas the stuff you buy at the outfitter is 1-2% pepper concentrate. It also has tear gas with it. Its only good for 10-12 ft. It's alot lighter than the outfitters too. It weighs 2.3 oz. I also read a study that 50% of the people who used guns to deter a bear were attacked whereas 0% of people who used pepper spray to deter a bear were attacked.
I'd like to see that study.

vamelungeon
05-10-2009, 10:12
I have this. Its 10% pepper concentrate whereas the stuff you buy at the outfitter is 1-2% pepper concentrate. It also has tear gas with it. Its only good for 10-12 ft. It's alot lighter than the outfitters too. It weighs 2.3 oz. I also read a study that 50% of the people who used guns to deter a bear were attacked whereas 0% of people who used pepper spray to deter a bear were attacked.

http://www.absc.usgs.gov/research/brownbears/pepperspray/pepperspray.htm

About half way down the page there is a comparison between pepper spray and firearms on Alaskan brown bears.

RevoRunner
05-10-2009, 10:28
The guys I helped search for their packs... they told me a story about a group they ran into at site 37. One of the hikers sprayed himself with bearspray thinking it would act like bug spray.

bwhahahahaha!

Blue Jay
05-10-2009, 10:52
So youy were between a mom and her cubs and you were not attacked? so I guess that helps to dispell the "getting between a black bear and her cubs" myth.

It would be great if that myth was dispelled, but people just flat out love to be scared. If there were no bears they would find something else. Funny thing but no one is scared of the real danger, investment bankers or "advisors". Give up your life working and they take the money. I'll take bears anytime.

Snowleopard
05-10-2009, 11:58
... so I guess that helps to dispell the "getting between a black bear and her cubs" myth. Yes this holds true for grizzlies but not for black bears. they are just interested in your food. That motherly instinct is absent in black bears. ...
"myth"?? Yes and no. The state wildlife people here routinely weigh and tag bear cubs. They gave a slide show here and it does look like this is not a certain recipe for attack of the "myth". On the other hand, it's not a stupid thing to do, if you can avoid it. Black bears do have a 'motherly instinct'. At the very least, it makes the encounter stressful for the bears. At worst, animals are not completely predictable.

Snowleopard
05-10-2009, 12:00
...it's not a stupid thing to do, if you can avoid it.
TYPO: that should read 'It IS a stupid thing to do, if you can avoid it.

Alaskanhkr23
05-10-2009, 12:14
Bear's are no joke specially black bears they are more likly to attack than grizzlies,i've shot a Sow Unfortuntly with my four sixty as it charged the second time,I walked between its two cubs by acciedent ,the first charge was bluff and the secong well i didnt take that chance and unloaded 6 shots into its chest and then had to call the state police.I am still sad about that to this day

sliderule
05-11-2009, 12:16
That motherly instinct is absent in black bears.

On most occasions when I have encountered a sow with cubs, mom orders the youngsters up a tree at the first sign of pending danger.

Alaskanhkr23
05-11-2009, 12:18
I don't mind bears but i really dont wanna be raided or mauled,i always have bear spray

Snowleopard
05-11-2009, 14:23
On most occasions when I have encountered a sow with cubs, mom orders the youngsters up a tree at the first sign of pending danger.
That's exactly what the State Wildlife slides showed.
AlaskanHiker: Bear spray is definitely overkill on the AT and in the East. Bear canisters are required in parts of the Adirondacks. Maybe in parts of eastern Canada bear spray makes sense. [JAK or other Canadians care to comment?]

Pokey2006
05-11-2009, 14:33
So what if it's overkill, or no one's ever needed to use it? If it brings peace of mind, why not just carry it? Not like it weighs very much.

le loupe
05-11-2009, 15:15
So what if it's overkill, or no one's ever needed to use it? If it brings peace of mind, why not just carry it? Not like it weighs very much.

some might say the same about a pocket .380...

OldStormcrow
05-11-2009, 15:48
some might say the same about a pocket .380...
Hmmmm....a pocket .380 and black bears? Sounds like a bad plan to me.....

Engine
05-11-2009, 19:33
I just got back from GSMNP today and Camp 10 below Russel Field is closed after a bear tore apart a tent to get at food stored inside and the bear is going to be euthanized according to park rangers I spoke with (a lesson for those who sleep with their food, as in this case it will cost the bear his life). Also, there have been problems with bears at Russell field and Maggies Ridge the past few nights. The bear at Russel field, which may be the same culprit who got the tent at site #10 down the trail, was said to be quite aggressive. The park service is considering closing the shelter according to Gray Beard, the trail runner I spoke with. In answer to the OP, I would say these problems are becoming very common. We saw 3 bears in 2 days on the Hanna Mountain trail in the west end of the park. We also heard one sniffing around camp late during the night while at Gregory bald, so they are out in force right now.

mooseboy
05-11-2009, 23:27
after a bear tore apart a tent to get at food stored inside

That explains it all. Until people learn how to properly store food in bear country...

Reid
05-11-2009, 23:58
Bear's are no joke specially black bears they are more likly to attack than grizzlies,i've shot a Sow Unfortuntly with my four sixty as it charged the second time,I walked between its two cubs by acciedent ,the first charge was bluff and the secong well i didnt take that chance and unloaded 6 shots into its chest and then had to call the state police.I am still sad about that to this day

Black bears aren't nearly as aggressive as brown and griz's in my opinion.

JAK
05-12-2009, 00:07
New Brunswick no, at least not in the south. We have a bear for every 2 square miles but relatively few sitings and zero fatalities in recorded history. There was a fatality up the the Gaspe, and a few more in Quebec and Ontario. It seems they get more dangerous in areas that have wolves, but its a bit more complicated than that.

I carry a big stick when hiking with my daughter in remote areas. I think children are more naturally at risk even here. There are no fatalities, but not alot of small children hike in remote areas with just their dad. I think carrying a big stick sends more of a natural message than carrying bear spray, though I agree bear spray probably makes more sense what an encounter occurs. I've thought about bearspray, but carrying a big stick is a little more natural of a habit to form.

I'm not sure I would hike alone with my daughter in some of the worst bear country in Ontario and Quebec, which includes some of their major Provincial Parks. With a few other adults maybe. I just don't know that area though. Around here though, the bears are very well behaved. Might change of course, depending on circumstances, like impact on habitat, and how hunting is carried out. Not sure. You always have to be more careful with small children. I woundn't use bearspray retailers as a source of information on bears though.

good information here
http://www.mnr.gov.on.ca/en/Business/Bearwise/index.html

and here
http://www.unbf.ca/forestry/centers/cwru/soe/bear1.htm

JAK
05-12-2009, 00:18
I keep the smells down also, and hang food when with my daughter. Also when with my daughter we use a tent. The idea is that they can't see a small child through the tent. Also, I think bears must understand in some way that large people are protective of small people, but only if you act protective. I don't think bears understang guns or bearspray, but I think they do understand keeping children close, and keeping them with you in a tent. Whatever helps you feel confident and protective and more alert is probably a good thing though. I don't think they see all that well really, and I don't really know how they think, but it seems natural to me to be protective around children in ways that bears might understand, should you ever encounter them. They are definitely out there, that's for sure. Maybe I smell more protective when I carry my stick and sleep with my hatchet. I don't know. I just know I don't want to be standing with my thumb up my ass looking around for a stick. Alone that would be fine, but not with my daughter.

Pedaling Fool
05-12-2009, 06:33
...(a lesson for those who sleep with their food, as in this case it will cost the bear his life)...
It'll only cost him his eye if he does it to my tent.

Engine
05-12-2009, 07:13
It'll only cost him his eye if he does it to my tent.

I bet it would cost you a pair of undies as well. :)

MoodyBluer
05-12-2009, 17:26
It'll only cost him his eye if he does it to my tent.


I've seen others on WB exhibit this type of bravado (mainly LW) re: bears in the tent, and I still find it amusing...short of having a gun or a sword, who's big and bad enuf to stop a bear from taking what it wants?

I understand what LW and others are saying about sleeping with your food and such (I've done it a few times), but as we've seen already this season with bears, why take the chance?...hang your food.

Pedaling Fool
05-12-2009, 17:43
I've seen others on WB exhibit this type of bravado (mainly LW) re: bears in the tent, and I still find it amusing...short of having a gun or a sword, who's big and bad enuf to stop a bear from taking what it wants?

I understand what LW and others are saying about sleeping with your food and such (I've done it a few times), but as we've seen already this season with bears, why take the chance?...hang your food.
Isn't "bravado", just an understanding of black bears. What happens when a bear that has lost it's fear of humans shows aggression towards a human that is sitting down to a meal? I understand there is some risk, but I accept it.

I'm simply drawing a line. I've been there when people got hanging food snatched from them by racoons.

You want to hang your food, fine, but I prefer to keep mine in my tent and will continue to keep it in my tent.

JAK
05-12-2009, 17:57
I think the most important thing when hiking alone is to keep the smells down, whether you hang your food or not. Bears are weary of humans, even if they know they can rip us apart. I think its common just common decency not to tease the heck out of them with food smells whether you hang the food or not. With small children I think you should hang the food and keep all the children in a tent with adults. When hiking alone I think individual human safety is relatively less important. The essential thing then is not to attract bears to trails and campsites, where children might be on a later date. I don't think food with an adult in a tent is any more attractive to a bear than food up in a tree. It might be easier to keep the smells down in your bag in a tent. With kids though, I would say hang the food away from kids for sure, and have an adult in the tent. Small children might attract bears, so the tent and the adult makes them less attractive. hanging the kids in a tree is probably not the way to go.

JAK
05-12-2009, 18:01
You gotta know your bear country though.
If I don't know a place I would hang my food, even when hiking alone.

Pedaling Fool
05-12-2009, 18:48
I was cooking dinner one night, somewhere in New York when a very curious bear (which had a tag on it's ear) started getting a little too close for my comfort. He was obviously attracted to my dinner, I could see him put his snout in the air to take a whiff. As he got closer I yelled and banged some stuff together, didn't phase him. I eventually threw some rocks at him and he got the message. I slept with my food that night, but I'll admit I was a little weary, but I had a plan...:D

JAK
05-12-2009, 18:58
It's important to have a plan, if only to help you sleep. My plan is a hatchet. It works. I sleep. :D

waywardfool
05-12-2009, 22:22
Bear's are no joke specially black bears they are more likly to attack than grizzlies,i've shot a Sow Unfortuntly with my four sixty as it charged the second time,I walked between its two cubs by acciedent ,the first charge was bluff and the secong well i didnt take that chance and unloaded 6 shots into its chest and then had to call the state police.I am still sad about that to this day

Not to bust on you, but.... I've wondered about your tales of you and your 460 in other posts. The S&W X-frame 460 holds 5 rounds, not six. Get your facts right. [/slapdown]

World-Wide
05-12-2009, 22:50
Not to bust on you, but.... I've wondered about your tales of you and your 460 in other posts. The S&W X-frame 460 holds 5 rounds, not six. Get your facts right. [/slapdown]

Good call.....;)

jaywalke
05-13-2009, 01:04
Not to bust on you, but.... I've wondered about your tales of you and your 460 in other posts. The S&W X-frame 460 holds 5 rounds, not six. Get your facts right. [/slapdown]

Regardless of the number of rounds, unloading six from a revolver into a charging bear's chest? Bears charge with their heads bobbing up and down, and if you are on the bad end of it there are perhaps a few inches of moving target at which to shoot. I've never shot a .460, but I'd hate to have to put even three .44 magnum rounds into something smaller than a dinner plate rushing toward me.

I've shot IPSC competitions with a .40 S&W. I could do it there, maybe, if I knew it was coming. My brother is a state trooper with several practical handgunning trophies, and I wouldn't bet on him to win that series.

This sounds like movie shooting to me, which doesn't really hold up in the light of day.

zoidfu
05-13-2009, 01:12
Whatever happened to keeping your mouth shut? Why narc on the bear that stole your stuff fair and square? You are, afterall, in his house.

Engine
05-13-2009, 09:26
Whatever happened to keeping your mouth shut? Why narc on the bear that stole your stuff fair and square? You are, afterall, in his house.

Actually, the guy whos tent was destroyed in GSMNP tried not to report it since he was in violation of park policy by storing food in his tent (with cable and pulley hanging system 30 feet away). The only reason anyone found out is a ranger happened by the next morning and noticed the damage. We shouldn't blame the bears, which is I think what you are saying. They just do what come naturally, which is forage for easy grub. Those of us who make it easy to get to our food are at fault though when a grand old bear is going to die...

JAK
05-13-2009, 09:52
I think dangling smelly food is as bad as sleeping with smelly food. Both attract bears to trails and campsites. I would say you should definitely never store any food in an unoccupied tent, but in places away from established camp sites where people dangle smelly food having a big adult in a tent or under a tarp with food that is well packed so as not to be too tempting is enough of a deterent, usually. It can also be an effective way of detecting problem bears in a region without risking women and children. ;)

sliderule
05-13-2009, 10:11
Not to bust on you, but.... I've wondered about your tales of you and your 460 in other posts. The S&W X-frame 460 holds 5 rounds, not six.

What he doesn't tell us is how many shots it took him to get six hits!!! Or that the last five hits were on a dead bear!!!

sheepdog
05-13-2009, 10:28
So what if it's overkill, or no one's ever needed to use it? If it brings peace of mind, why not just carry it? Not like it weighs very much.
Zacktly,
It is also multi purpose. It works great on nasty dogs and nastier hikers.

sheepdog
05-13-2009, 10:30
Hmmmm....a pocket .380 and black bears? Sounds like a bad plan to me.....
shoot the bear 5 times and yourself once????

Engine
05-13-2009, 11:23
shoot the bear 5 times and yourself once????

Yeah, always save that last round for yourself. :)

mts4602
05-14-2009, 16:06
I don't understand all this talk about women and children. What does having an adult in a tent have anything to do with whether or not a bear would attack a tent? The bear can't see through the tent. It doesn't know whether there is a child in there or some huge guy.

As far as whether or not people hang their food. My opinion is it's up to you. I think it's stupid since as this thread demonstates, bears are known to attack tents in which they smell food. Yes, hanging your food may cause your food to be taken, but most likely that's not going to happen and at least your not dead in that case.

All I know is, if a friend of mine is sleeping in my tent or very close to it, they are going to hang their food. I'm not going to be killed b/c some idiot kept his food in the tent. That's why for me personally, sleeping in shelters is a little scary b/c you can't control what all these other people are doing and you have to sleep with them.

For those who think they will be able to defend themselves in the event a bear attacks their tent, they are crazy. Good luck with that one. The thing is though, it's all about odds. You probably are never going to have a problem if you keep food in your tent, but it only takes one time.

One solution could be to just make bear canisters mandatory like out west. This would virtually solve the problem. I'm sure many people would be pretty pissed about it though including myself. They do provide a great sense of security though. Plus they work.

1azarus
05-14-2009, 16:12
I think dangling smelly food is as bad as sleeping with smelly food. Both attract bears to trails and campsites. I would say you should definitely never store any food in an unoccupied tent, but in places away from established camp sites where people dangle smelly food having a big adult in a tent or under a tarp with food that is well packed so as not to be too tempting is enough of a deterent, usually. It can also be an effective way of detecting problem bears in a region without risking women and children. ;)

interesting point about the unoccupied part... i assume no one was in the tent...

Engine
05-14-2009, 18:34
interesting point about the unoccupied part... i assume no one was in the tent...

The ranger didn't say, but that was my assumption as well.

vamelungeon
05-14-2009, 18:47
A bear can tell if there is a person in the tent with the food. If a bear is willing to attack you in your tent to take your food, do you think he won't attack you on the trail to get it out of your pack? If a bear will do that, hanging is just a feel good exercise.

Kanati
05-14-2009, 20:55
I could be wrong about the details of this story, but I read in a young guys journal in late 2007 where he was asleep in his tent and using his food bag for a pillow, when a bear took a swipe thru the tent wall trying for the food and put a gash in the poor fellows head that took about 30 stitches to close. My memory tells me it happened on the AT in Vermont. Someone had told him there were no bears in VT and he made the mistake of listening to him.

Later in his hike, which was a SOBO I think, about NY state he was forced to leave the trail because he ran out of money. One of his friends back home, whereever that was, put on a benefit to raise money for him and he raised enough for him to hike to about the VA/TN state line someplace where he again ran out of money and was forced to leave the trail.

Does anyone else know of this incident. It was a very funny account of himself that he gave.

sliderule
05-14-2009, 23:26
I'm not going to be killed b/c some idiot kept his food in the tent.

Don't bet on it. If a bear has learned to associate tents with food, your good habits might not be enough to avoid problems. The "idiot" that taught the bear the lesson about food in tents could be long gone when your tent gets ripped apart.

Engine
05-15-2009, 06:58
Don't bet on it. If a bear has learned to associate tents with food, your good habits might not be enough to avoid problems. The "idiot" that taught the bear the lesson about food in tents could be long gone when your tent gets ripped apart.

Thanks for that point. This is what too many people forget when it comes to bear problems, we all can be effected by dumb moves made long before we arrive. Also, keep in mind that cubs learn by observing a sow so they can easily grow up and engage in the same behavior eventually.

TIDE-HSV
05-17-2009, 08:39
That association a bear learns is never unlearned. A big boar stole my wife's pack at Sheep Pen Gap (#13) back in the mid-90s. The food was hung (he couldn't jump high enough, but later learned how to chew through ropes), and the pack was empty. Several Ziploks fell out and none had ever had food in them or been in contact with food. He bit every one, just to be sure...

randyg45
05-17-2009, 13:35
some might say the same about a pocket .380...
There are those who think that nothing bad can ever happen to them,
and those who think, evidently, that nothing bad ever happens at all

sliderule
05-17-2009, 13:42
There are those who think that nothing bad can ever happen to them,
and those who think, evidently, that nothing bad ever happens at all

And a lot of those people carry guns. But how many gun-toters also carry first aid kits?

randyg45
05-17-2009, 14:07
And a lot of those people carry guns. But how many gun-toters also carry first aid kits?
No, none of those people carry guns.
Ibuprofin, Tylenol 3, needle, bandaids, neosporin, ace bandage.... NAA Black Widow .22 Magnum.... UDAP