View Full Version : Another weight loss thread
Lemni Skate
05-10-2009, 13:40
I lost 50 pounds last year dieting and backpacking. I was unemployed and got out almost every day.
Now I've put pretty much all of that weight back on. I need to lose weight again and I plan to do a lot of backpacking this summer, but my question is this. Do I have to do two solid months of backpacking or will I be okay with 3 days on the trail, 3 days off?
I hate dieting because it tends to cause me to "bonk" on my hikes.
kayak karl
05-10-2009, 13:59
I lost 50 pounds last year dieting and backpacking. I was unemployed and got out almost every day.
Now I've put pretty much all of that weight back on. I need to lose weight again and I plan to do a lot of backpacking this summer, but my question is this. Do I have to do two solid months of backpacking or will I be okay with 3 days on the trail, 3 days off?
I hate dieting because it tends to cause me to "bonk" on my hikes.
i've never hiked TO lose weight. i try NOT to lose weight hiking.
this is a good read, HEFT on WHEELS, by Mike Magnuson. its about biking, but works for hiking. its about him doing a 180 in his life.
Pedaling Fool
05-10-2009, 14:29
If there's one thing a 6 month hike will teach you, it's that we Americans eat way too much food.
Your body doesn't need near as much food as we shove into it. While hiking I figure I burn at least 5K calories per day, that's just calories burned during my hike, that does not include calories burned sitting around -- don't forget, we are still burning calories during sleep.
I would eat some oatmeal in the morning, a few of bars/handfuls of something during the day and for dinner I would eat a bowl of rice with all my dehydrated stuff thrown in (assorted veges and jerky). I've never added up the calories, but I pretty sure I generally eat more at home, while not being near as active.
You just got to stop eating so much. I'm not lecturing, because I'm a big eater and have a problem with stuffing my face, just like anyone else.
Why not try walking or some other form of exercise on the days you don't hike...you could walk 2 1/2 miles in the morning and 2 1/2 miles in the evening and you'd get 5 miles a day in.
kayak karl
05-11-2009, 06:52
If there's one thing a 6 month hike will teach you, it's that we Americans eat way too much food.
Your body doesn't need near as much food as we shove into it. While hiking I figure I burn at least 5K calories per day, that's just calories burned during my hike, that does not include calories burned sitting around -- don't forget, we are still burning calories during sleep.
I would eat some oatmeal in the morning, a few of bars/handfuls of something during the day and for dinner I would eat a bowl of rice with all my dehydrated stuff thrown in (assorted veges and jerky). I've never added up the calories, but I pretty sure I generally eat more at home, while not being near as active.
You just got to stop eating so much. I'm not lecturing, because I'm a big eater and have a problem with stuffing my face, just like anyone else.
i ate twice as much on my hike then i do at home. don't get your point.
oh, and i still lose too much weight.
If you hike three days on and three days off versus not hiking at all and taking 7 days off then yes it will help you loose weight. You will be burning more calories in a day. If you are "bonking" during your hikes you are either not getting the proper carbohydrate/protein/fat break down which is also referred to as your "macrosplit" or you are not getting enough calories...
I have been semi-successful at losing weight in the past few months. I'm still learning stuff like how much is water and how much is real weight. Also, how much carbs are burned and how much fat is burned and how much protien is needed. It's very complicated, but its also very interesting. Having a very precise and consistent set of scales is really helpful. I use Wii Fit, which gives me a daily graph of my weight and BMI, and is precise and consistent to +- 0.1 pounds. I don't really use it for anything else anymore, but now and then the games and exercises are fun too.
My baseline diet is basically 80g protien, 100g carbs, 10g fats, plus some healthy 'cheating' to take advantage of healthy meals and healthy food when they present themselves in front of me. Like I'm not going to turn down a roast beast dinner at my mother-in-law's or if my wife makes something special. I'll just skip the gravy and potatoes, and focus on the meat and vegetables. Plus I can fast for a 24 period after a 'big kill' like that. For my own meals in between I go with simple healthy choices like oats, skim milk, egg-whites, blueberries, grapefruit, lemons, carrots, spinach. I can go all day on just tea or coffee with lots of skim milk, and water flavoured with lemon. If I am exercising slow, like walking, I know I am mostly burning fat and shouldn't need extra food. If I am running I may need to top up my carbs. A litre of skim milk and a banana should be enough to refuel after even a 2 hour run.
It's mostly a matter of consistency. I haven't been consistent enough in my diet or my exercise. I have been stuck on 210 for a couple of weeks now. It's not that I am doing anything wrong really. I just need to conjure up the will to break through and not slack off on the diet and exercise. I can lose 0.5 pounds a day, but to average even 0.2 pounds a day takes consistency. Don't be afraid to dive into a 'big kill' when it presents itself, but you gotta be sure and go out the next day and pay for it with a good long walk or run.
I've been a little too worried about losing muscle mass. Don't use that as an excuse not to burn fat. Your body will maintain the muscle you need if you are exercising and eating right. A little strength training or speed work or hill work goes a long way.
take-a-knee
05-11-2009, 10:40
Go to www.crossfit.com and spend some time reading the FAQ section. If you have a local Crossfit affiliate and can afford it, start training with them. Get "Mastering the Zone" by Dr. Barry Sears and implement it's strategies and your fat boy days will be gone, not to mention your health will markedly improve.
JAK
If you are eating what you say you are than you are only consuming 810 calories a day. This is not enough for even basic bodily functions.....
I wasn't clear enough that that is only my baseline. I do some regular healthy 'cheating' on top of that, as opportunities present themselves, as they always do when you share a household with a beautiful wife that cooks like a pro and a beautiful daughter that eats like a bird.
If I eat my baseline, which I rarely do more than 2 days in a row, I might lose 0.5 pounds per day, maybe 1 pound/day depending on exercise. but I have only been averaging 0.2 pounds per day, so I would guess I have been averaging 1800-2000 calories per day. The 810 is the minimum. It is enough for basic bodily functions, but only for a few days at a time. People can fast for a day or even a week, as long as they don't do it forever. You don't have to eat the same amount every day.
Thanks for the clarification. I got worried there.
I think the first step is to get a really accurate set of scales, like +-0.1 pounds, and consistent from day to day, and to weigh yourself every morning after you get up and pee. Then you can learn exactly how much weight your body burns each day.
The second step could be many things, but one idea would be to be very disciplined about what you eat and how much you exercise for 10 days. It doesn't have to be extreme, but it should be measurable and consistent. Then you learn something about yourself. After that you can keep an eye on what you eat and how much you exercise a little more loosely, as long as you continue to weight yourself each and every day.
If I go up 4 pounds in one day, I can usually figure out why. It usually involves a big meal, and some of that weight is water that goes with it, so I can take corrective action over the next 3-4 days to make up for it. I thing 1 big healthy meal once a week is alot better than some seriously unhealthy binging on junk food. Everyone is different, but losing 0.4 to 0.6 pounds per day for 6 days, and then gaining a net pound once a week, for a total of 2 pounds per week is a pretty good target. If I only lose half that I'm still happy. If I get out for a long hike on a weekend I can lose an extra bonus pound.
Also, if I go up 4 pounds in one day, some of that might also be because I was a little low on water the morning before. I think my 'water level' can be within a 2 pound range without being dehydrated or overhydrated. I try and drink enough during the day, and particularly at night to avoid overeating, but even after giving the body all night and a morning pee to find itself, I think the level is still a 2 pound range. It must depend on salts and stuff also, and how much stuff is still in your intestines, and also where your carbohydrate stores are at, as something like 50% water is stored within the glycogen. So +- 1000 kcal of glycogen stores represents about +- 1 pound of body weight, independant of your otherwise hydration level.
So even if you watch things closely, and have a good set of scales, and hydrate and weight yourself consistently, you still need to watch the trend over several days to get a real sense of what's going on from one day to the next.
It's tempting to just go out on the weekend and burn it up for a net 2 pound weightloss, and that is an excellent thing to do now and then, but your day to day diet and exercise and lifestyle is just as important in the long run. I think a more extreme exercise weekend might be a good way to break through psycological barriers, but I haven't been able to do anything like that yet since I've starting tracking things more closely. In theory I'm sure it works, and a 30 mile weekend hike is an awesome thing to do regardless. Just saying I haven't got around to trying it yet since I started this recent weight loss regime.
I think the first step is to put your scale away. So you can focus on whats really important which is proper nutrition. I would try and keep track of what you eat for a week without doing anything different than what you normaly do. I would also record your exercise for that week. That way you can get an accurate measure of calories in and calories out... That is a starting point and only a small part of the puzzle. If you dont know this than the scale can be misrepresentative.
I lost 50 pounds last year dieting and backpacking. I was unemployed and got out almost every day.
Now I've put pretty much all of that weight back on. I need to lose weight again and I plan to do a lot of backpacking this summer, but my question is this. Do I have to do two solid months of backpacking or will I be okay with 3 days on the trail, 3 days off?
I hate dieting because it tends to cause me to "bonk" on my hikes.Getting back to the original post. I'm curious by what is meant by 3 days on 3 days off trail in terms of impact on dieting and weight loss. Can you still lose alot of weight 3 days on and 3 days off? I would say yeah, totally. Even if you can only hike on weekends you can lose a boatload of weight. If you do it right I would say you could lose as much as 1 pound per week through normal dieting, plus another 1 pound/week through weekday walking or exercise, plus another 2 pounds on long weekend hikes.
The tricky thing is how much to eat when preparing for and especially for recovering from your weekend hikes, so you can continue on with your weekday walking/execise and your next weekend hike. It might be helpful to keep in mind that your glycogen stores is probably 2000 kcal at most, and you never want to bottom out completely, and when hiking you shouldn't have to dip as deeply into the reserves as you would when running. The other thing is protien reserves, which is in the form of muscle. This is less clear, but I think its easiest to increase your protien by just keeping it more or less proportional to your carbohydrate intake, but perhaps a little something extra at the end of your big weekend. Fats I think can remain limited, so you will burn body fat rather than food fat. You still need some fats, I am not sure how much, but I would say 20g per day is enough.
I think a good balanced diet for weightloss is like...
100g carbs, 60g protien, 10g fats, 10g fibre as a daily minimum
then additional food as needed in the ratio of 100:10:5:5 carbs:protien:fat:fibre
So for your normal weekday, including say 1 hour of walking...
perhaps 200g carbs, 70g protien, 15g fats, 15g fibre = ~1200 kcal/day
Then for your weekend hikes with perhaps 8-12 hours per day...
perhaps 500g carbs, 100g protien, 30g fats, 30g fibre = ~2500 kcal/day
Now that 2500 kcal/day may not seem like much,
but the idea is that you are burning an additional 3000kcal/day in body fat.
Still a good idea to bring along an additional 500ml of honey. If you get delayed, or hit some tough hills and start to bonk, you can tap into that. At the end of the week how much fat you actually do burn depends on alot, and might not be near close to 4 pounds, especially if you are worried about losing too much muscle, or if you are slower at recovering for the next week, but losing even 2 pounds/week can add up to alot of weigh after a few short weeks, even if you don't get out every weekend.
I think its important not to kid yourself though, into eating more than you really need. Keep the protien ratio up, but you gotta be a little mean and hungry if you want to be buring alot of fat. Don't be afraid to lose a little muscle along with it, as long as your exercising. If you are overweight you probably have some muscle where you don't need it, and if you are exercising you will gain it back where you do need it. Remember you want to be more like a wild rabbit, and less like a beef cow.
I think the first step is to put your scale away. So you can focus on whats really important which is proper nutrition. I would try and keep track of what you eat for a week without doing anything different than what you normaly do. I would also record your exercise for that week. That way you can get an accurate measure of calories in and calories out... That is a starting point and only a small part of the puzzle. If you dont know this than the scale can be misrepresentative.I'm not sure I understand the logic. If you want to get healthy or fit or whatever, the scale may be irrelevant, as there can be other methods of determining progress.
But the purpose here is to lose weight. The best measure of whether or not you are succeeding at losing weight is to weigh yourself, no?
I think the first step is to put your scale away. So you can focus on whats really important which is proper nutrition. I would try and keep track of what you eat for a week without doing anything different than what you normaly do. I would also record your exercise for that week. That way you can get an accurate measure of calories in and calories out... That is a starting point and only a small part of the puzzle. If you dont know this than the scale can be misrepresentative.You gotta eat the right foods, for sure, but without scales you are probably going to continue to overeat, even if its all the right stuff, and even if you are exercising well. Scales work, as long as they are precise and consistent. It takes a few days, but they really tell you alot, especially if you lack the discipline to be consistent in you diet and exercise from one day to the next.
Precise and accurate scales are the first step.
But yeah, proper nutrition and exercise is the zeroeth step.
They say the waist-line measurement is more important. I don't disagree with that, but it isn't as easy to measure yourself as precisely or consistently from one day to the next. Depends too much on how you hold your breath and how tight you pull the tape. Scales today can be +- 0.1 pounds, which is +-0.05% of 200 pounds. You waist-line measurement would have to be +- about 0.02 inches to give the same feedback.
I think a weekly waistline measurement is a really good idea though.
I say to put the scale away because its important to understand the basic concepts of weight loss and nutrition before you start weighing your self. Yes the objective is to loose weight but I just like to recommend people understand the principles on which weight loss is based on such as fats proteins carb, their relationships to each other. Calorie surplus's and deficits, metabolism and basically how the body works. Knowing these things makes it more likely that a person will be able to maintain long term results. Its like taking a reading on a map before you know where you are and where you want to be. Maybe not the best analogy but i think it illustrates a point.
However if you insist on weighing yourself i would do it only once a week like on monday mornings when you first wake up because sodium intake can drastically effect water weight which can cause large fluctuations in daily weight. This is why most pros dont recommend using weight as your primary measurement of weight loss(ironic huh) instead they recommend body measurement such as chest, waist, thigh, bicep.
There is definitley more than one way to do it thats just my way and I am in no way a professional....yet.
Yeah I would agree with that. Knowledge is key.
That's what I meant when I said precise scales are the first thing,
but knowledge of proper diet and exercise come right before that. ;)
You see you need both because you can study about diet and exercise for years and years, but at the end of the day, you're going to want to learn directly from your own body, and your going to want a really precise set of scales in order to do that. You can read about how many calories are burned by such and such a person doing this activity or that, but if you want to know how much calories you will burn and how much weight you will lose by eating the foods that you have eaten and doing the activities that you have done, you are going to want to weigh yourself. Be you own scientist, is what I'm saying.
Same with sleeping bags and such. Bring a thermometer. Test yourself in different
conditions. Then you know what actually works for you, and that is real knowledge.
I'm borrowing an old thread to post this link to a VT Hiker's weight loss spa
http://www.ajc.com/travel/lose-112987.html?cxntlid=sldr_hm
brian039
08-11-2009, 21:29
I asked a registered dietician this same question today and she had no clue. There's just not a lot known about proper nutrition when you're burning 5k cal/day.
I asked a registered dietician this same question today and she had no clue. There's just not a lot known about proper nutrition when you're burning 5k cal/day.
Here you go...
http://www.traditionaltx.us/images/PEMMICAN.pdf
I lost 50 pounds last year dieting and backpacking. I was unemployed and got out almost every day.
Now I've put pretty much all of that weight back on. I need to lose weight again and I plan to do a lot of backpacking this summer, but my question is this. Do I have to do two solid months of backpacking or will I be okay with 3 days on the trail, 3 days off?
I hate dieting because it tends to cause me to "bonk" on my hikes.It is good to take rest days between strenuous exercise, whatever it may be, to allow the body to recover and thus benefit from the exercise. This is not the problem. What is the problem, as other's have said, is the uncontrolled intake of foods, especially the wrong ones. We all must learn to eat in a way that will give us the energy we need, but will also prevent us from gaining unwanted pounds, especially if that poundage primarily consists of fat storage. If in good health, don't underestimate the benefits of strength training. The more muscle you have, the more calories you can burn. Couple this with eating right and aerobic activities such as hiking, and the weight will come off.
MikenSalem
08-11-2009, 22:49
The average male uses 12 calories per pound of body weight to maintain that body weight, thats the resting usage. Any physical activity is an additional amount of calories used. One pound of fat = 3500 calories. You can only deny yourself a limited amount of calories after that you must exercise the calories off. When you have used 3500 calories more than what you need to maintain your current weight you will have lost a pound. The best weight management regime is to eat in moderation, do away with empty calories like soda, breads, fatty meats and eat huge amounts of fresh vegetables to fill yourself. Exercise is the key to loosing large amounts of weight and lifestyle changes of physical activity and better eating habits break the diet yo-yo.
The statistics run that over 80% of people who loose weight gain it back within one year, even if the loss involves surgery. If you change your eating and activity habits then the weight will come off. The limitations imposed by deadlines do not create healthy weight loss lifestyle changes do.
FTR I lost 87 pounds in 12 weeks in 2004 I kept it off because I studied my eating habits and changed them and increased my physical activity. The diet was a doctor supervised 500k a day fast then I spent the next year in the company of diet nazi's reprogramming my eating habits. Life is good, hiking is more fun than eating.. grandkids too!!
Get a bike. Everyone that gains the weight back after they've tried so hard to lose it gains it back because they lost it doing something they didn't enjoy doing. Not saying that we shouldn't learn to do things that we don't want to do. It's also better to do right than look right......right?
i've never hiked TO lose weight. i try NOT to lose weight hiking.
this is a good read, HEFT on WHEELS, by Mike Magnuson. its about biking, but works for hiking. its about him doing a 180 in his life.
Yes, Heft On Wheels, is good read. Have to go through the whole story to get the whole lesson. Pretty quick read though.
Get a bike. Everyone that gains the weight back after they've tried so hard to lose it gains it back because they lost it doing something they didn't enjoy doing. Not saying that we shouldn't learn to do things that we don't want to do. It's also better to do right than look right......right?This is very true! However that "something" is usually their food deprivation. Most people who attempt to lose weight do so by switching to a diet mode, they chose only foods that they deem as healthful, and eliminate foods that are deemed unhealthful, such as fatty foods. This will work for awhile, however inevitably most people will over restrict themselves, the mind will rebel, and they will begin to eat as they originally had and eventually all the lost weight will return. Permanent weight lose(long-term) success requires the person to adapt to an eating strategy that is healthful, but at the same time never lets that individual feel deprived. If the individual begins to feel chronic deprivation, the "diet" will fail, as most do, resulting in the weight returning. This is the "something" they didn't enjoy doing. Not to downplay choosing physical exercise outlets, as this too is all important, as is "backsliding". If the person who is eating healthy begins to crave a piece of cake or ice-cream, etc... and they can't resist, then they need to have it, but then immediatly return to their healthful eating plan. This takes the pressure off and allows them to remain on course. Their "eating stratagy" must be something they can perform for the rest of their lives, this is why so many so called diets eventually fail.
Their "eating strategy" must be something they can perform for the rest of their lives, this is why so many so called diets eventually fail.
Even the mainstream is beginning to tout this:
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857-5,00.html
We knew semi-starvation didn't work back in 1945...it still doesn't:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minnesota_Starvation_Experiment
(semi-starvation was 1,800 calories, by the way)
So, to add to what DapperD says, it's about 80% diet; this one from ABC news:
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=3659148 (15 sec ad first)
T-Dubs