View Full Version : REI shopper detained by Armored Truck guards, arrested for photographing an open ATM.
http://iamshane.com/2009/05/09/of-atms-iphones-and-911/
While the kid sounds like a tool :
(header: Designer. Typophile. Rails/Rubyist. Still Vegan. Still Straightedge. And, Baby, I’m An Anarchist.)
...his detention by Armed Loomis Armored Car personnel was illegal. They are in no sense of the word police officers or any form of law enforcement, they are bodyguards for sacks of cash and nothing more. The illegality was the threat of physical intervention ("Don’t try to leave. I will tackle you.") and I'm upset by REI's handling of the situation.
REI's Loss Prevention was involved in this matter, the management could have mitigated this better, perhaps explaining that photography in a Private Business isn't permitted and deescalating the situation better than ending up in the arrest of a kid taking a picture. He now has a wrongful arrest suit on his hands.
This is enough to convince me to boycott REI until they apologize, pay compensation and agree not to pull this kind of crap again. Until then, I will be shopping at nearby Campmor, Efingers, Cabelas and EMS instead.
From what I've read, the kid will probably be acquitted. Sounds like a case of gung-ho guards.
Was he even arrested? Sounds as if he was detained for the purpose of identifying and doing the paperwork for trespass.
The only fly in the ointment was, at the time of the picture taking, he was standing on private property. So, some of his rights may be negated. But, I am no lawyer.
Sounds like the guards and REI staff succumbed to paranoia.
Somewhere on the net is a book that describes the legalities of photographers. I think its on amazon. Its happened before, it will happen again.
I never did like REI. They suck.
Wow, lets all over react and trash a company over one guys blog on the web. I don't have any great love for REI, but I am not going to change my opinion about a store just because some dude blogged about them. Sounds like both parties could have handled the situation differently and the outcome would have saved everyone a lot of time!
Sorry, my sympathies are with the folks who have to work with large amounts of cash. They have to be very, very careful. There are far more people shot at while working at low-paying jobs than there are folks manhandled by security guards. No comparison in the pain and suffering.
People shouldn't take photos of people and post them on the internet without asking.
End of story.
Mrs Baggins
05-12-2009, 12:09
Sorry, my sympathies are with the folks who have to work with large amounts of cash. They have to be very, very careful. There are far more people shot at while working at low-paying jobs than there are folks manhandled by security guards. No comparison in the pain and suffering.
I have to agree. There was just a story in the news about ATMs being rigged to steal $500,000 from bank customers. What exactly is photogenic about an open ATM? Nothing. But the possibility of detailed interior pics of how one works? Priceless.
paperwork for trespass
He wasn't trespassing, he was in fact told by the store's LP to stay, then was served with a warning to not come on the property again.
Wow, lets all over react and trash a company over one guys blog on the web. I don't have any great love for REI, but I am not going to change my opinion about a store just because some dude blogged about them. Sounds like both parties could have handled the situation differently and the outcome would have saved everyone a lot of time!
No over reacting from me. I never did like REI and have always thought they sucked.
He wasn't trespassing, he was in fact told by the store's LP to stay, then was served with a warning to not come on the property again.
I took this qoute from the guys blog;
He took me out of the cell and took off the cuffs, had me sign a “You have been trespassed by REI and can’t go back for a year” form then Officer Abed walked me out the door. And that was that.
So, Trespass, Warning, I am not going to argue about it.
i don't give a **** either way
drastic_quench
05-12-2009, 12:30
Sorry, my sympathies are with the folks who have to work with large amounts of cash. They have to be very, very careful. There are far more people shot at while working at low-paying jobs than there are folks manhandled by security guards. No comparison in the pain and suffering.
Shot with iPhones?
drastic_quench
05-12-2009, 12:33
What exactly is photogenic about an open ATM?
So people with cameras should only shoot what someone else deems photogenic?
Nothing. But the possibility of detailed interior pics of how one works? Priceless.
No, they're not. That's the kids whole point: that better schematics and photos can be LEGALLY found via a simple Google search.
Seems to me REI has nothing to do with this, it wasn't their ATM.
From an attorney -
He was arrested. In basically every situation, if you are in cuffs, you are arrested - while there may be some situations where that is not the case, any time you are put in cuffs, put in the back of a squad car, and driven to the station, are under arrest. In fact, from the moment he was detained, it could qualify as an arrest, even if no one touched him, if he was told he could not go anywhere.
Plus, the arrest was illegal. Clearly, it was not a felony. I would be shocked if it was a misdemeanor - i.e., surely he did not do anything illegal. Perhaps he violated store policy, Loomis policy, whatnot. But not the law. Generally speaking, a police officer cannot arrest an individual without a warrant for a non-felony crime that the officer does not witness or come upon the scene immediately (hot pursuit). Of course, there are going to be some exceptions under interesting factual scenarios, but it doesn't look like that happened here.
And there was no right to arrest him based on what he said to the officers under the transcript as he gave it. Unless it was a threat, which it wasn't, no crime.
vamelungeon
05-12-2009, 12:47
The guy didn't break any law, so whether the Loomis guys like it or not, they had no right to do ANYTHING, nor did the police have any right to arrest him. I think the guy was a jerk, but that's not illegal.
From an attorney -
He was arrested. In basically every situation, if you are in cuffs, you are arrested - while there may be some situations where that is not the case, any time you are put in cuffs, put in the back of a squad car, and driven to the station, are under arrest. In fact, from the moment he was detained, it could qualify as an arrest, even if no one touched him, if he was told he could not go anywhere.
Plus, the arrest was illegal. Clearly, it was not a felony. I would be shocked if it was a misdemeanor - i.e., surely he did not do anything illegal. Perhaps he violated store policy, Loomis policy, whatnot. But not the law. Generally speaking, a police officer cannot arrest an individual without a warrant for a non-felony crime that the officer does not witness or come upon the scene immediately (hot pursuit). Of course, there are going to be some exceptions under interesting factual scenarios, but it doesn't look like that happened here.
And there was no right to arrest him based on what he said to the officers under the transcript as he gave it. Unless it was a threat, which it wasn't, no crime.
Interesting, so it sounds like they put him in handcuffs when he would not produce ID for the police ( my interpretation ). Does one have to produce ID on demand from a police officer? I always assumed you did. And how would you file the paperwork for trespass unless you had the person produce ID? It sounds like it could have been handled better by all parties.
Interesting, so it sounds like they put him in handcuffs when he would not produce ID for the police ( my interpretation ). Does one have to produce ID on demand from a police officer? I always assumed you did. And how would you file the paperwork for trespass unless you had the person produce ID? It sounds like it could have been handled better by all parties.
Not a Washington lawyer by any means, so no expertise on their law. It could be argued that htis was a civil infraction - but it could not be criminal trespass, as REI is a public store - he would have to be given notice that he was not allowed to be there and an opportunity to leave, and in this case, he was detained.
Under RCWA 7.80.050 (Washington Code), he could arguably have been stopped for a civil infraction. Upon receiving notice of this civil infraction, then an individual must produce identification. However, to be given notice (and thus be required to produce ID), the civil infraction must still occur in the officer's presence. But even then, arrest is not appropriate: With a civil infraction, an officer may briefly detain a person only long enough to check his or her identification and to issue a notice. State v. Day, 130 Wash. App. 622 (2005).
If he committed a crime in the officer's presence, he could be required to produce ID. Some states (i.e., Nevada - see Hiibel v. Sixth Judicial District Court of Nevada (US Supreme Court case)) have laws that allow an officer to demand ID when the officer has reasonable suspicion to believe that crime is afoot.
By the way - none of that is legal advice! :)
Seems to me REI has nothing to do with this, it wasn't their ATM.
It was on their property, they decided to serve him with a trespass warning and I'm willing to believe the LP Agents and Management did nothing to deescalate the incident, in fact to exacerbate the problem.
I remember having debates 20 or 30 years ago about how if we were not careful the authoritys would be able to demand our "documents" on demand for no reason, just like they did in the Soviet Union.
Halt. Let me zee your paperz.
le loupe
05-12-2009, 13:54
I remember having debates 20 or 30 years ago about how if we were not careful the authoritys would be able to demand our "documents" on demand for no reason, just like they did in the Soviet Union.
You must produce a Driver's License only when stopped in a vehicle.
During any other stop or questioning by police, no ID is required. It is sufficient that you identify yourself verbally. Answers are required to be truthful.
You may refuse to answer any questions but that may make things more difficult.
(from information provided by the ACLU)
D'Artagnan
05-12-2009, 14:06
Well at least they didn't shoot him...
Well at least they didn't shoot him...
Yeah I guess things are lookin up.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-12-2009, 21:06
Seems to me REI has nothing to do with this, it wasn't their ATM.
REI hit him with trespassing, which tells me to stay the heck out of their stores who knows who they will say is trespassing next. I would Email REI but I can not seem to be able to find their contact email. If anyone knows it hit me up I would like to inform them they have lost my business until they apologize publicly.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-12-2009, 21:07
Well at least they didn't shoot him...Or tazer him "DOn't Taze me Bro"
You must produce a Driver's License only when stopped in a vehicle.
During any other stop or questioning by police, no ID is required. It is sufficient that you identify yourself verbally. Answers are required to be truthful.
You may refuse to answer any questions but that may make things more difficult.
(from information provided by the ACLU)
Very wrong. Try it and then tell us how tight the cuff's were. You are required to show ID. But an officer must have probable cause to "check you out" in the first place.
So people with cameras should only shoot what someone else deems photogenic?
No, they're not. That's the kids whole point: that better schematics and photos can be LEGALLY found via a simple Google search.
Can you prove that?
Can you prove that?
http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g40/237840/237840_1155900321_large.jpg
le loupe
05-12-2009, 21:50
Very wrong. Try it and then tell us how tight the cuff's were. You are required to show ID. But an officer must have probable cause to "check you out" in the first place.
I stand by my post- you are not required to show ID- however you must identify yourself.
Just 'cause you say it ain't so doesn't mean I'm wrong. Bring something better than what I have to the table
http://www.aclu.org/FilesPDFs/dwb%20bust%20card7_04.pdf
take-a-knee
05-12-2009, 21:57
This never would've happened in Atlanta, the guard would have been concerned about looking down the barrel of a Glock if he came at someone with a pair of cuffs. It could happen in good ol' Jersey 'cause they've allowed their politicians to neuter them.
"An armed society, is a polite society." Robert Heinlein
I have refused to show ID or give up my name without a just reason.
le loupe
05-12-2009, 22:28
This never would've happened in Atlanta, the guard would have been concerned about looking down the barrel of a Glock if he came at someone with a pair of cuffs. It could happen in good ol' Jersey 'cause they've allowed their politicians to neuter them.
"An armed society, is a polite society." Robert Heinlein
it happened long before I had anything to neuter...
kolokolo
05-12-2009, 22:33
What a curious thread. It has nothing to do with hiking or camping, but seems to stoke some people's deep-seated suspicion toward the authorities.
take-a-knee
05-12-2009, 22:41
it happened long before I had anything to neuter...
That's true, point taken, but you could still move. I KNOW I would. California gun laws are the reason there are more active shooters per capita in Arizona than any other state.
le loupe
05-12-2009, 22:43
That's true, point taken, but you could still move. I KNOW I would. California gun laws are the reason there are more active shooters per capita in Arizona than any other state.
wife says NO- so maybe I have allowed myself to be neutered:-?
What a curious thread. It has nothing to do with hiking or camping, but seems to stoke some people's deep-seated suspicion toward the authorities.
It is about hiking and camping. The incident occured at REI. Lots of hikers and campers spend thier money there. They sell outdoor gear and clothing.
The guy (as shown in his blog) seemed to be a jerk, and was trying to act tough.
How should he have acted? Meek and humble?
How should he have acted? Meek and humble?
Standing up for yourself= acting like a jerk these days
Feral Bill
05-12-2009, 23:29
The guy had a part in creating a disturbance in the store. REI told him not to return. I expect he can fix this with a well worded letter or even a polite phone call. If he is a member, so much the better.
REI really had no part in this except for it happening on their (or should I, as a member, say our) premises.
If the incident unfolded as described, (a big if)this person did nothing either wrong or illegal. The armed guards threat to tackle him, on the other hand, would be an assault. The arrest seems totally bogus. Big fun for the lawyers, I think.
Incidently, Washington issues concealed carried permits without problems. That didn't stop these guards.
Standing up for yourself= acting like a jerk these days
Oh my! We are agreeing on something.
Oh my! We are agreeing on something.
It's the start of an unparalled era of cooperation!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-12-2009, 23:39
I don't know how truthful the officer was being, but while I was thumbing a ride in FL a trooper stopped and asked if I had my ID, for which I replied "am I breaking any laws?" He informed me I was not and that I did not have to show him an ID, but I did have to tell him who I was, and that he had the right to confirm my identity for which I would need to accompany him to the police station. We went back and forth for a bit, and I guess he decided he had better things to do, because my ID was in my car. I carry plastic on my hikes but leave my Identification as well as my wallet safe in my vehicle.
wife says NO- so maybe I have allowed myself to be neutered:-?
www.dontfixit.org (http://www.dontfixit.org)
:eek:
California gun laws are the reason there are more active shooters per capita in Arizona than any other state.
I don't get the connection. :-?
http://features.cgsociety.org/newgallerycrits/g40/237840/237840_1155900321_large.jpg
Thats a drawing.
Thats a drawing.
It's a rendered model.
How should he have acted? Meek and humble?
I did not take the picture to threaten the safety of the two Loomis fake cops with their bulletproof vests, hip side pistols and very fragile egos.
He obviously went into the situation with him wanting to cause a scene and to stand up for the constitution in the small confines of a REI store.
It probably wasn't the two employees fault, they were probably just trying to follow protocol, and do their jobs.
The REI security people that had been called in by now wanted the same thing. I told them plainly that I’m not in the habit of giving my ID to people just because they want it, especially fake cops who put money in box and get to play at being real cops.
He's obviously trying to get a reaction from them, and he did get it. It's interesting that he's whining about it on his blog now that he got the reaction that he wanted.
And anyway, if he's so worried about the US Constitution, how about he trys defending laws that give property owners rights about what happens on their property. Because he is, after all on REI property (or so I assume given the blog and report)
At the end of the day, the situation has ended, he's got the outcome that he wanted (whether he admits it or not) so I don't see what's gone wrong here.
He's obviously trying to get a reaction from them, and he did get it. It's interesting that he's whining about it on his blog now that he got the reaction that he wanted.
He didn't instigate anything. he took a picture with his cell. It's not illegal, and there are no rules against pictures in REI.
And anyway, if he's so worried about the US Constitution, how about he trys defending laws that give property owners rights about what happens on their property. Because he is, after all on REI property (or so I assume given the blog and report)
And REI can have any rule they want, and they may ask anyone they wish to leave, to leave. What you don't get to do is to restrain and detain someone who has broken no law, even if there was a rule against what he did, which there isn't.
At the end of the day, the situation has ended, he's got the outcome that he wanted (whether he admits it or not) so I don't see what's gone wrong here.
When you are restrained and detained when you've broken no law, there will be nobody left to see what's gone wrong.
take-a-knee
05-13-2009, 07:39
I don't get the connection. :-?
That figures.
Sounds plausible to me. We have all these supposed "rights" but coming from a guy working for a law enforcement department, they can pretty much always make up a reason to detain you.
Very wrong. Try it and then tell us how tight the cuff's were. You are required to show ID. But an officer must have probable cause to "check you out" in the first place.
It is a state-by-state law - some states do not hvae laws where you have to identify yourself, and in those situations, you could not be legally required to do so.
And, if a law is in place, an officer does not have to have probable cause, only reasonable suspicion, which is a much lower threshold, to require you to produce ID/identify yourself.
YoungMoose
05-13-2009, 09:56
that person is stupid for doing that
Which person? And why aren't you in school?
Which person? And why aren't you in school?
My little brother has late start today. I dunno about outwardboundbackpack, but that could be why.
Or he could be posting in class. Why do you care? Don't you have some kids on your lawn you could threaten or a pension check to cash or something?
How about a comment from someone who worked on an armored car for 2 years. I had multiple attempted robberies on me when I was working on ATMs, I had someone try to run me off the road in the truck, I had people try to climb into the truck behind me, I had people try to grab my weapon when I was opening the door to a store. I was even attacked by a mentally ill person working on an ATM in the lobby of a psych hospital. Having an attempt on your life atleast once a week at work will make you cautious. When someone is videoing or photographing me on the job I assumed they were staking out the area to rob me in the future. People would gladly kill me for the money I was carrying. The guard did what he felt needed to be done. The kid with the phone was inconvenienced at most. The risk the guard takes is him or a co-worker being killed in a future robbery because of the photos. Yes, the internet has the ATMs laid out for you. But there are many different layouts, models, and designs of them. The photos of that exact ATM would allow someone to stidy it and find out what component is what and assist in a robbery. From the outside you can't always tell what exact model of ATM it is. With the photos you can.
Just figured it would be nice for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to say something on this site for once.
How about a comment from someone who worked on an armored car for 2 years. I had multiple attempted robberies on me when I was working on ATMs, I had someone try to run me off the road in the truck, I had people try to climb into the truck behind me, I had people try to grab my weapon when I was opening the door to a store. I was even attacked by a mentally ill person working on an ATM in the lobby of a psych hospital. Having an attempt on your life atleast once a week at work will make you cautious. When someone is videoing or photographing me on the job I assumed they were staking out the area to rob me in the future. People would gladly kill me for the money I was carrying. The guard did what he felt needed to be done. The kid with the phone was inconvenienced at most. The risk the guard takes is him or a co-worker being killed in a future robbery because of the photos. Yes, the internet has the ATMs laid out for you. But there are many different layouts, models, and designs of them. The photos of that exact ATM would allow someone to stidy it and find out what component is what and assist in a robbery. From the outside you can't always tell what exact model of ATM it is. With the photos you can.
Just figured it would be nice for someone who actually knows what they are talking about to say something on this site for once.
It doesn't sound like you know what you are talking about. And BTW, getting arrested and hauled off to the jail is more than a inconvenience. Just because you and other security gaurds were or are poorly trained and psychologicly unfit for the job doesn't give you the excuse to screw up.
HikerRanky
05-13-2009, 14:27
With all due respect to everyone, all we know is 1 side of the story.... Unless the people that are involved in this step forward and offer their side of it, we here on WB will not know exactly what happened.
Why don't we all just chalk this up to "We weren't there, and something bad appears to have happened here" and leave it at that.
Randy
While the kid sounds like a tool :
He is a tool because he doesn't eat animals or use drugs? lmao
le loupe
05-13-2009, 15:38
With all due respect to everyone, all we know is 1 side of the story.... Unless the people that are involved in this step forward and offer their side of it, we here on WB will not know exactly what happened.
Why don't we all just chalk this up to "We weren't there, and something bad appears to have happened here" and leave it at that.
Randy
Where's the fun in that?:D
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-13-2009, 15:59
Too bad REI nor Loomis will make a statement. Guess they have something to hide.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-13-2009, 15:59
whoops I mean will not make a statement lol
With all due respect to everyone, all we know is 1 side of the story.... Unless the people that are involved in this step forward and offer their side of it, we here on WB will not know exactly what happened.
Why don't we all just chalk this up to "We weren't there, and something bad appears to have happened here" and leave it at that.
Randy
Good post.
This guy puts out his version of this "incident" without any evidence other than his "word". He also has posted:
"The other thing sounds really lame saying it out loud in front of other people, but… If you want to help me financially, I design and make shirts (http://theresistancearmy.com/) with my friend (Bookis). We sell them for $15 each (http://theresistancearmy.com/). That would help me out quite a bit. (Sorry for the commercial break.)"
And:
"It would be remiss of me to not point out (to the thousands of visitors I’m getting) that I make and sell shirts with my friend (Bookis). They are available at The Resistance Army (http://theresistancearmy.com/&source=atm_update_post_text_link&site=shane_blog&person=veganstraightedge). They are $15 each."
Hope all you that support him also buy a shirt. Just think how he could have worked you up if he had claimed it was in a WalMart.
:-?Wait a minute. Nufaid, after the mod suggested everyone be careful about posting on a subject and individuals before we had more info (post #61) you complimented him on a good post (post #66). On post #67, MADE 13 MINUTES LATER YOU SLAM AND BEGIN TO DEMONIZE THE VICTIM.
Just sayin....:-?
Put this thread alongside the Damascus turned bad thread. Same song, second verse.
Jerk does something stupid, gets treated like a jerk, then cries about it to anyone who will listen, but only tells half the story (somehow leaving out the fact that he is a jerk) to stir others up.
What did the guy allegedly do that makes him a jerk? What is stupid about seeing what might be a cool photo and taking the photo.
Wow, lets all over react and trash a company over one guys blog on the web. I don't have any great love for REI, but I am not going to change my opinion about a store just because some dude blogged about them. Sounds like both parties could have handled the situation differently and the outcome would have saved everyone a lot of time!
Agreed he was a punk with no respect for authority and pictures himself a guru on society....fact is people DO "case" ATMs to steal from ( and before i get jumped on about it, these thieves work in TEAMS so while he might not have been one of the actual robbers ( doubt hed be smart enough) he still could have been in on it as innocent as he "looked" .. thats part of thier job casing.. they have an image that isnt questioned...that looks innocent in all ways)..thats undeniable reality...these guards didnt know this prideful " im better than you" little prick, it was his whole attitude that escalated the whole thing, Think about it theres a reason that they carry guns and wear vests as part of thier job..are they cops....no...but they do face that real danger of being robbed and its thier job to protect what they are assigned to...over zealous..POSSIBLY but between a egotistical social defunct anarchist and a pair of regular joes working hard trying to do thier jobs, i wonder who i will side with and boycotting REI cuase of this stupid punks blog...is stupid
Kudos to the guards for actualy getting this punk thrown into a cell for a little while..would have paid money to watch that
:-?Wait a minute. Nufaid, after the mod suggested everyone be careful about posting on a subject and individuals before we had more info (post #61) you complimented him on a good post (post #66). On post #67, MADE 13 MINUTES LATER YOU SLAM AND BEGIN TO DEMONIZE THE VICTIM.
Just sayin....:-?
I just quoted what the "victim" posted on his blog.
RITBlake
05-13-2009, 17:23
Guards on a power trip.......blow right by them son.
RITBlake
05-13-2009, 17:28
I just read the kid's blog. He's 100% right. I like when people take a stand.
Put this thread alongside the Damascus turned bad thread. Same song, second verse.
Jerk does something stupid, gets treated like a jerk, then cries about it to anyone who will listen, but only tells half the story (somehow leaving out the fact that he is a jerk) to stir others up.
He didn't do anything stupid, and he didn't start it. The ATM tech started it when he threatened to tackle him.
I just read the kid's blog. He's 100% right. I like when people take a stand.
Hope you bought a shirt.
Hope you bought a shirt.
as opposed to REI and loomis, who arn't commercial interests? :p
WB needs a "What Not To Read" forum where mods could move this and many threads to . . . so far the 14 year old wins the mature response award! :p
as opposed to REI and loomis, who arn't commercial interests? :p
Shane and Bookis don't need to rob an ATM as long as they can stir up fellow anarchists and/or the gullible to buy their shirts.
Shane and Bookis don't need to rob an ATM as long as they can stir up fellow anarchists and/or the gullible to buy their shirts.
And they don't need to commit a crime to be arrested either.
I wouldn't have given them my ID either. If you think he should have, why not make it a law then?
WB needs a "What Not To Read" forum where mods could move this and many threads to . . . so far the 14 year old wins the mature response award! :p
I didn't know HikerRandy was 14. His picture makes him look older.
And they don't need to commit a crime to be arrested either.
I wouldn't have given them my ID either. If you think he should have, why not make it a law then?
And who's really the anarchist in this situation?
Maybe it would be helpful for hikers to know what other stuff not marked out by a sign that they can not take pic's of, I mean besides ATM machines. Also, it may be helpful if we know which security guys can detain us. Is it just Loomis? Can, say a guard from the ACME security firm, or, let's say Billy's Safe and Sure Econo Security Co. handcuff us too? Lastly, we should all be informed about which outfitters might want to ban us if we take pic's inside thier store. Oh, never mind, we already covered that.
HikerRanky
05-13-2009, 18:32
I didn't know HikerRandy was 14. His picture makes him look older.
Trust me he is older, but thanks!
Maybe it would be helpful for hikers to know what other stuff not marked out by a sign that they can not take pic's of, I mean besides ATM machines. Also, it may be helpful if we know which security guys can detain us. Is it just Loomis? Can, say a guard from the ACME security firm, or, let's say Billy's Safe and Sure Econo Security Co. handcuff us too? Lastly, we should all be informed about which outfitters might want to ban us if we take pic's inside thier store. Oh, never mind, we already covered that.
here's a newer article with more information.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/snap-judgment/Content?oid=1540903
Skidsteer
05-13-2009, 21:05
here's a newer article with more information.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/snap-judgment/Content?oid=1540903
Kara Stone, general manager at REI's Eastlake store, says the incident was "super unfortunate" and claims Becker was not banned from the store at the request of REI staff, although SPD records indicate otherwise. "Shane is welcome to come into our store," she says.
An employee named Frank who answered the phone at Loomis's office would not comment on the incident or whether Loomis has any company policies about photography of staff members.
:D
You just can't make up stuff like this. "Super unfortunate" and a Loomis guy named Frank. Oh my gosh.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-13-2009, 21:07
So let's get this straight for those of you who will not read that article the Seattle police have now filed a complaint against the officers on his behalf. Also REI says they did not request him to be banned but again the police say REI did. So for the Nay sayers who say he must have deserved this apparently the law does not agree with you.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-13-2009, 22:00
Know what is ironic? Not only can you find pictures online, but How it's made showed how they build them lol. I think though if I were going to rob one I would do the same as everyone who has ever robbed one with the exception of the idiots in philly and just yank the thing out with a truck and a chain and then cut it open in a garage. Just so this never happens again I have an idea, why don't we ask our government to order us all to have our driver's liscense tatooed on our forheads? LMAO
.......why don't we ask our government to order us all to have our driver's liscense tatooed on our forheads? Because you look silly enough on your own*. :eek::p:D
*This is a joke, I'm only kidding.
le loupe
05-13-2009, 22:25
here's a newer article with more information.
http://www.thestranger.com/seattle/snap-judgment/Content?oid=1540903
OMG! did they show a photo of an opened ATM in that story?
I love it. The man has been vindicated.
Doug Klunder, Privacy Project director at the Seattle branch of the American Civil Liberties Union, says cases like Becker's are becoming more frequent. "These come up all the time, and the ultimate answer ends up being yes [the photographer] had the right to take the photo and should not have been arrested and detained. It would be really nice if officers would start realizing that [before making an arrest]
rather than going through this rigmarole."
Ya, he has been vindicated, but he is of the wrong political party and religion, so the demonizers and name callers and haters will never admit that the guy is a freedom fighter of sorts. People with his attitude and willingness to stand up and fight for thier rights help keep all of us free. That won't make a difference to the brainwahed sheeple. They will always be willing to sit in the back of the bus and ready to lynch the ones who demand to sit in the front.
ACLU to the rescue.... again!
ACLU to the rescue.... again!
High five!:D
Winter of '87 nam vets were fighting to put a memorial on Federal Hill in Baltimore. They scheduled a press meeting on the Hill to state thier feelings. I figured it was an oppurtunity to display Mother and Brother. Me, Mother and Brother got there many hours early and clalimed our spot. Cold, windy and snow. Stood in it for five hours before the vet group showed up. When the TV crew showed up they ignored me, Mother and Brother, other than to use us as a back drop for thier news story. Everybody left and once again it was just me, Mother and Brother. I was just getting ready to pack up when a group of Europeans showed up. They had seen me from the other side of the harbor and came over to meet me. Told me they recognized Mother and Brother and wanted to meet a real American. They were from Ukraine, still under the rule of Soviets.
I don't much care about ACLU. I just know that I respect people who are willing to defend and/or fight for something.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-14-2009, 00:58
Winter of '87 nam vets were fighting to put a memorial on Federal Hill in Baltimore. They scheduled a press meeting on the Hill to state thier feelings. I figured it was an oppurtunity to display Mother and Brother. Me, Mother and Brother got there many hours early and clalimed our spot. Cold, windy and snow. Stood in it for five hours before the vet group showed up. When the TV crew showed up they ignored me, Mother and Brother, other than to use us as a back drop for thier news story. Everybody left and once again it was just me, Mother and Brother. I was just getting ready to pack up when a group of Europeans showed up. They had seen me from the other side of the harbor and came over to meet me. Told me they recognized Mother and Brother and wanted to meet a real American. They were from Ukraine, still under the rule of Soviets.
I don't much care about ACLU. I just know that I respect people who are willing to defend and/or fight for something.Sometimes I feel alone, I am glad to see I am not.
ACLU to the rescue.... again!
Yea, well, sometimes.... these are the people who defended NAMBLA. :p
Yea, well, sometimes.... these are the people who defended NAMBLA. :p
Ahhh, the stereotypical NAMBLA cannard...
That case wasn't about NAMBLA's right to produce the material that they produce. That right was already secured long before this case ever came up.
It was about a guy who kidnapped a child and murdered him/sexually assaulted him and the guy had NAMBLA materials in his car. NAMBLA was being sued pretty much by association. The family wanted to hold NAMBLA accountable.
The legal precedent that would have been set would have far reaching effects... it could have possibly destroyed the entertainment industry for one thing.
Put it this way, if someone watched, say, Terminator 2 and then went on a shooting spree then the producers/actors of that movie could have been held liable. Say you listened to some NWA and then went and shot a cop then those rappers could be held liable. That's the precedent that was being fought, NOT the right to distribute the crap that NAMBLA distributes.
Put it this way, if someone watched, say, Terminator 2 and then went on a shooting spree then the producers/actors of that movie could have been held liable. Say you listened to some NWA and then went and shot a cop then those rappers could be held liable. That's the precedent that was being fought, NOT the right to distribute the crap that NAMBLA distributes.
Yea, I know. Just wasn't what I had in mind when I donated. :)
Yea, I know. Just wasn't what I had in mind when I donated. :)
That happens a lot with ACLU cases. You have to peel back the layers most times to get a firm handle on what their case is.
It's why they get a lot of the poorly informed, emotional, knee-jerk opposition that they get.
He is a tool because he doesn't eat animals or use drugs? lmao
and this...
(Just like when I was in Vancouver, BC with Fall Out Boy, I got to see the stage being constructed)
Homer&Marje
05-14-2009, 07:23
Yea, I know. Just wasn't what I had in mind when I donated. :)
Wait...did you donate to ACLU or NAMBLA:D:-?
Wait...did you donate to ACLU or NAMBLA:D:-?
http://www.amiga.org/uploads/smil402e47bbe7f0f.gif
RITBlake
05-14-2009, 10:18
Hope you bought a shirt.
No I didn't.
Feral Bill
05-14-2009, 11:41
Winter of '87 nam vets were fighting to put a memorial on Federal Hill in Baltimore. They scheduled a press meeting on the Hill to state thier feelings. I figured it was an oppurtunity to display Mother and Brother. Me, Mother and Brother got there many hours early and clalimed our spot. Cold, windy and snow. Stood in it for five hours before the vet group showed up. When the TV crew showed up they ignored me, Mother and Brother, other than to use us as a back drop for thier news story. Everybody left and once again it was just me, Mother and Brother. I was just getting ready to pack up when a group of Europeans showed up. They had seen me from the other side of the harbor and came over to meet me. Told me they recognized Mother and Brother and wanted to meet a real American. They were from Ukraine, still under the rule of Soviets.
I don't much care about ACLU. I just know that I respect people who are willing to defend and/or fight for something.
I can't fathom what you are trying to say. Explain please.
I can't fathom what you are trying to say. Explain please.
Mother and Brother are flags. American and POW/MIA.
I just know that I respect people who are willing to defend and/or fight for something.
....
Mother and Brother are flags. American and POW/MIA.
NAMBLA fights for the right to touch little boys.
NAMBLA fights for the right to touch little boys.
You have no clue about what respect means. It has nothing to do with agreeing with someone. It has nothing to do with wether you like them or not. The fact is, you should respect your enemys.
Got it. You respect Nambla.
I find my enemies are usually those that merit the least respect.
Got it. You respect Nambla.
I find my enemies are usually those that merit the least respect.
Nobody respects NAMBLA, we respect the damage they can do:rolleyes: In other words, they aren't to be taken lightly.
Now you got it.
Got it. You respect Nambla.
I find my enemies are usually those that merit the least respect.
Nambla would be on my enemy list. If I were around you when you were a little boy my respect for the enemy may have prevented you from being touched by an adult.
Alligator
05-14-2009, 13:17
You folks want to get back to the REI focus of this thread or is this one done?
You folks want to get back to the REI focus of this thread or is this one done?
rei sucks. (how's that?)
warraghiyagey
05-14-2009, 15:14
agreed. . . does that help?
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-14-2009, 15:28
Help's in my book too bad I can't find their contact email so I can express my disappointment in their actions. Although it is a whole lot more fun doing that with restaurants, they give ya lots of free goodies lol
Homer&Marje
05-14-2009, 17:04
rei sucks. (how's that?)
Knew we could agree on something:D