Near-AT residents who hate hikers

[minnesotasmith]

I read most of a circa-2001 book today about a thru-hike, called "Walking Home" by Kelly Winters. She claimed that the stretch of the Appalachian Trail between Elk Park, NC to Hampton, TN is NOT a good place for hikers, especially thru-hikers. Supposedly, smart hikers should not camp, approach locals (or even be seen by them if avoidable), hike solo there, go to nearby small towns, hitchhike, etc., in that stretch. She gave some examples of relatively recent incidents along that section of the trail that back this up:

1) Someone stretched thin, nearly invisible monofilament line at eye level across the Trail with fishhooks dangling from it.

2) White blazes marking the trail are commonly destroyed to the point of nondiscernability along that section.

3) A shelter there was repeatedly the subject of major arson until those who build shelters got the point that a shelter for hikers was NOT wanted there by locals, and that this would keep happening until the attempt to have a shelter there was abandoned, as it indeed was.

4) She also alluded to an incident where an ATV was parked across the Trail, and when a pair of hikers mildly commented to the "good-ole-boys" near it that motor vehicles were not supposed to be on the Appalachian Trail, the answer was "So, what are you gonna do about it?", with shots fired (no hits).

Comments, please.

[Lone Wolf]

All that stuff happened 12-14 years ago. There are no problems now.

[minnesotasmith]

You are saying that there are good-quality shelters at normal intervals, hikers receive the normal degree of welcome in trail towns, there are at least the average frequency of trail angels, etc., along that stretch now?

BTW, where IS that section, exactly? I have a pretty good strip map of the AT(purchased at the shop at Amicalola for four bucks about a month ago), and I can't exactly place that area.

[steve hiker]

I wish them rednecks would come back. That area's getting too overrun by outsiders.

[Skyline]

The A.T. has been relocated since all those things happened. The only remaining problem seems to be vehicle vandalism at the trailhead parking lot on Rt. 19E--especially for those leaving a vehicle there long-term. But it's not the only trailhead with such a history.

[Lone Wolf]

The section is between TN. 19E and Walnut Mtn. Road, a distance of about 9 miles or so. You cross over 3 roads. There is a new relo in the area so it may be a few miles longer.

[minnesotasmith]

North of it is Laurel Fork Gorge, and south is Roan Knob.

1) Is that the correct location, and

2) Is Walnut Mtn. Rd north or south of 19E? (Is the spot where 19E crosses the AT the northern or southern end of that stretch referred to by Miss Winters?)

[Lone Wolf]

1) Yes
2) Walnut Mtn. Rd. is N of 19E, 19E is at the southern end of the section.

[Mini-Mosey]

She was also pursued by two locals; she managed to outrun them.

[Jack Tarlin]

Lone Wolf is 100% correct here...all of this stuff happened eons ago, yet is still repeated and passed on. The Trailhead at 19E is a lousy place to leave a car; other than this, there's nothing inherently unsafe or unfriendly about this section.

[Brushy Sage]

The people along there were very friendly toward me two yrs ago when I hiked through and spent time in town.

[SGT Rock]

I found the people in that area very friendly. I think other than the trailhead being at a location where there happen to be some yahoos that have found hiker's cars an easy target, the area is fine. Lets face it, there are soemthing like three hostels within a day or two of hiking from that spot including Kincora which is probably about the friendliest hostel I have ever been too. I have actually conversed with an author (I will not divulge the name) that writes novels about the area near there and it's ihabitants, and there is a bit of missunderstanding about the AT being a government trail built and maintained by the park service and the fact that a lot of the land was taking by the government sometimes against the owners' concent does not help. Add to the fact the history of that area and the misunderstandings that can arouse between cultures of hikers versus locals, I thik that sometimes there can be misunderstandings.

I read that account in "Walking Home" and as I read it I thought about it from the other people's sides (I happen to be a southern male) and I see some locals out checking out the trail and seeing this little girl with a pack that ain't a mountain raised beating them getting up a trail that by their thinking they should be able to get up much faster. they would have their pride wounded by that and attempt to catch her and pass her, but I doubt seriously they really ment her any harm.

[minnesotasmith]

So, is there any section of the Trail that currently has a reputation for having some residents who have a dislike for hikers that they harass hikers?

[Lone Wolf]

No there is not.

[minnesotasmith]

;) I take it there is no equivalent in real life on the AT for how the movie "Deliverance" was for canoers? The latter involved some urban guys going out into the Georgia woods; not a coincidence IMO...:-? :D

A line from that movie: "Well, I'll say one thing for the system - the system did produce the air-mattress. Or as it's better known among we camping types the instant broad.":D

[Miss Janet]

As I have questioned before...
Was she so concerned for her safety that she went straight to the police and reported her narrow escape from 2 crazed hill billies?? Was she thinking of the other female hikers that were an hour, a day, a week behind her... that might be slower than her? Wow, did she really outrun these two... still wearing her pack?
I find myself defending the area and people around 19e... I have never had a problem in many years of doing business in that area. But, I do not let anyone park there over night... I don't let hikers park at MOST trailheads. It is just not a good idea if there is a safer option.

[minnesotasmith]

"Was she thinking of the other female hikers that were an hour, a day, a week behind her... that might be slower than her?"

No mention of doing so was in that section of her book. The authoress was something of a navel-gazer, e.g., often overly concerned with "me" and "what am I feeling right now". Agreed, she probably should have reported it. OTOH, to try to be charitable, she may not have thought that it would do any good (imagine a jury composed of those rednecks' relatives); she was likely a bit unsettled and not thinking too clearly; and, all of us understand being viscerally reluctant to get off the Trail avoidably.

"Wow, did she really outrun these two... still wearing her pack?"

Actually, I wouldn't necessarily rule that out, with the likely difference between her condition and those of her pursuers. (They weren't at a job working hard; they may well have been idlers.) Most Americans hardly walk at all these days; less than 2 miles a week on average, is it? By the time she reached Route 19E, she was, what, around the TN/VA state line, so she had hiked hundreds of miles, getting in shape all the way. Likewise, she had probably shed some pack weight by then, as many people do. Her pictures in the book showed her to not be significantly (if at all) overweight, either. I find her account of that incident to be at least plausible.

[stranger]

I hiked through Tennessee in 1995 with a bunch of other thru-hikers and I remember reading in Wingfoot's book about this section of trail, and at that time the information was dated. We didn't pay it much mind.

We camped in that area, stayed at Apple House Shelter, and went into Elk Park for hamburgers...no problems and easy hitch. It's amazing how stories never end.

[Tater]

Was she so concerned for her safety that she went straight to the police and reported her narrow escape from 2 crazed hill billies??
Actually it was 3 guys. That aside, I really think this is off the mark. Put yourself in the shoes of a woman from Wisconsin who has just avoided being assaulted on an isolated stretch of the AT. Is she going to double back to the same road crossing where the guys she just outran are probably catching their breath? "Hey guys, mind giving me a ride into town to the Sheriff's Office? I want to make a report."

Even if she got back into town (or waited until the next town), is she going to wait around (weeks, months?) to file charges and utimately testify against these good old boys whose family members are on the jury? And what charge, illegal chasing? They didn't actually catch or touch her, and she didn't see a weapon in sight.

[torch]

And what charge, illegal chasing? They didn't actually catch or touch her, and she didn't see a weapon in sight.
That's what I like about our justice system. It rewards failure. Punishment only if you actually complete your crime. "Oh, so you TRIED to assult her, but she out-ran you. Well, you're free to go, better luck next time." I mean, why does attempted murder carry less penatly than actual murder? It the attempted murderer better left in society because he wasn't well practiced enough to succeed?

[Pencil Pusher]

That's what I like about our justice system. It rewards failure. Punishment only if you actually complete your crime. "Oh, so you TRIED to assult her, but she out-ran you. Well, you're free to go, better luck next time." I mean, why does attempted murder carry less penatly than actual murder? It the attempted murderer better left in society because he wasn't well practiced enough to succeed?Yeah well, tell me what state you live in and I'll send you a link with a quote showing the law says otherwise. As for this book, not to stir up a hornet's nest, but everyday life doesn't sell well for books and tv. Sometimes the storytellers need to spice things up a bit.

Here you go, 'criminal attempt' on a silver platter. God I hate searching for some of these laws in the various states...http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=getObject&objName=mcl-750-92&highlight= As for which laws it is applicable to, here is the search engine for your state (have at it): http://www.michiganlegislature.org/mileg.asp?page=ChapterIndex

Dang, I quoted that? Aye carumba, well you already addressed 'attempt', sorry.

[smokymtnsteve]

Sometimes the storytellers need to spice things up a bit.

I attend the National Storytelling Convention in Jonesboro, TN every october...and I can tell you that ALL my stories are completely true stories and campfire stories

[Pencil Pusher]

I attend the National Storytelling Convention in Jonesboro, TN every october...and I can tell you that ALL my stories are completely true stories and campfire stories
Now supposing you wanted to put some of those stories into a book. If this book is just for you or your family, they are fine as is. If you want the book to appeal to a bigger audience (the public), then you'll sell the book and the stories within. But to sell a single story to a large audience, as the case might be for this national convention, well it better be a good story and not run-of-the-mill.;)

[Tater]

As for this book, not to stir up a hornet's nest, but everyday life doesn't sell well for books and tv. Sometimes the storytellers need to spice things up a bit.
So you're saying she made it up?

[Pencil Pusher]

So you're saying she made it up?So you're saying you're a lawyer? (they're good at this game)
Look at what I typed, that is what I said. Don't go putting words in my mouth.

[Mini-Mosey]

Kelly Winters is "Amazin' Grace" who has posted here on whiteblaze. She seems like quite a nice woman; she had the decency to e-mail me a couple of times when I emailed her about her book and about receiving an email from her which was mistakenly sent to me.

[minnesotasmith]

She gives the impression of being above-average in intelligence, a fairly good observer, reasonably skilled with written English, and she did hike most of the AT. That said, she is overly inclined towards self-pity, is a bit of a "wail-and-flail/inclined to panic" type when under acute stress, handles her romantic relationships inadroitly, and quit the AT short of Katahdin, even without an injury or professing money shortage, when Katahdin was her goal. There are plenty of other hikers I would prefer to emulate over her.

[geoffrey morris]

:clap Hi everybody,
I just wanted to say a few things about the section of the AT that goes from US19e to walnut mnt.. First ,Wolf is correct these "bad" things happened over 15 years ago.I live next to the trail, very close to 19e and I know most of the locals in this area. These people are very friendly and I wouldn't be too worried about them. As for parking on 19e, there hasn't been any problems for several years.However, I don't recommend that people park there. I offer parking at my place which is very close to the trail.Please feel free to park at our place anytime.Call me at 423-772-3425 or e-mail me at [email protected]. ([email protected]. Nobody) Nobody wants to worry about there vehicle while thier hiking.
One other thing I wanted to talk about is the trash problem near 19e on Bear branch rd. There is a man who throws his trash on the trail everyday and I clean it up every other day.Well his days of doing this are numbered.Score one for the trail. The USFS and I have videoed him in the act twice and plan to get him on video a few more times. This guy could get up to 6 months in jail and a fine of $5000 for each offence.When he goes to trial everybody on this site should e-mail the judge and push for the maximum punishment. It's rare to even get a conviction in cases like this, but this one is rock solid.HEY STREAMWEAVER, I GOT HIM ON VIDEO.YOU BELEIVE ME NOW??REMEMBER?? YOU ACTED LIKE I WAS WRONG TO SUSPECT THIS GUY.LET'S HEAR WHAT YOU'VE GOT TO SAY NOW???:bse For the rest of you all who don't know, ol' Streamweaver treated me like I was stupid and in the wrong for thinking that I knew who it was that was trashing the trail.Well I was right and have the proof now!!! I'll keep everbody posted as to the outcome of all this.
Your friend,

Geoffrey Morris

[SGT Rock]

Good work.

[geoffrey morris]

Thanks SGT Rock.Glad to see that someone noticed.Did I mention the idea about e-mailing the judge in this case so as to pressure him to hand down the maximum punishment?When I find out who the judge will be I will post the contact info. A friend of mine seems to think that pressuring the judge might back fire on us, the judge might take offence being told how to do his job.What do all of you think??:-? Geoffrey Morris

[SGT Rock]

Maybe a letter with more of thankfull concern, nothing pushy. Something pushy would make me mad too.

Something along the lines of thanking him for his time and effort to help raise the standards American's are now trying to show in stewardship of our national lands by deciding how best to deal with someone that has intentionally made it his cause to violate federal, state, and local laws in an attempt to be unhospitable to the visitors of the state by dumping trash along the prettiest part of the county exactly where the most impact could be felt. Anyway, that is probably too preachy, but something like that.

[smokymtnsteve]

I think that we should e-mail the judge and tell him to give the man a break...
Teach the man Leave NO TRACE bakcountry wilderness ethics...maybe require him to attend a week end hike along with a LNT class get him to be a trail maintainer or have the judge sentence him to work with BobPeoples every tues for a Year Bob can fix anything few days with a Bob and this guy will be an AT advocate. take him out and show him the Good time hiking...make friends with him...make him like Us the trail community...WE ARE THE GOOD GUYS.

This might be a real hillbilly jist liek me http://www.trailjournals.com/photos.cfm?id=50621

and weins don't take too kindly to having our cousins Lawed and locked up ...that's when we start feuding ( and throwing more trash)...cause next time he'll be "slick as a snake" and belive me you won"t film him again after court day...but if you make friends with him you have a chance to change him..

If your pa shoots my pa
There's a custom on this hill
My son 'll shoot your son
Cause we told 'im that he will
My brother will attest
That he's killed your very best
No love is ever lost after bad blood is spilled
( song by dan gore www.elephantrock.com ways that are dark)


but the next time after the LNT class and hike and maybe working with BOB ...if that don't work then we will need to have a PUBLIC HANGING for this rascal :D

[Lone Wolf]

How about I come down and meet ya Mr. Morris and you can show me where this boy dumps the trash and I'll set up a LW ambush, catch him red handed and open up a can of whoopass on him. I'll disable his truck too.

[smokymtnsteve]

How about I come down and meet ya Mr. Morris and you can show me where this boy dumps the trash and I'll set up a LW ambush, catch him red handed and open up a can of whoopass on him. I'll disable his truck too.

Right after the Leave NO Trace Class. :D

and BTW...how do you know he has a truck??? :banana

[Lone Wolf]

LNT is a joke and don't all litterin redneks have trucks?

[smokymtnsteve]

usually an old ford pick-up

[geoffrey morris]

Hi all,
Love the comments.There great keep 'um comming. The only thing that will make this guy happy is total abolishment of the AT. I'm sure if we moved the trail he would go out of his way to trash it.:) Don't get me wrong Steve I understand your way of thinking and it's all good,But if you knew this guy you'd see that he is an old hateful ass. He hates you,me all of us,but would act like your best friend.
Wolf, I did catch him red handed, he just doesn't know yet and the USFS also got his ass on film. I'd love to see the look on his face when the serve him the citations, which he can't just go pay the fine for. He must appear in federal court.Cool huh?
G Morris

[Groucho]

Posted by Geoffrey Morris:

"HI J.joe ,Moon,Wolf,SGT Rock,
I hope that by spreading the word around,maybe something will be done.I think sometime this spring I will stake out the trash spot with a video cam.This guy works nights and trashes the trail at night. I watched him as he left for work yesterday,the dumbass put the trash in his truck-in the cab of his truck."

[geoffrey morris]

Yes it's a old ford pick up, blue body , fender from another truck and a white tail gate from somewhere.Wolf you can call me Geoff.:D G.M.

[geoffrey morris]

Groucho, I didn't understand your last post?? Oh ,this guy trashes the trail in the middle too. 3:20 on the dot daily

[Groucho]

Groucho, I didn't understand your last post?? Oh ,this guy trashes the trail in the middle too. 3:20 on the dot daily

Not sure if there is anything to understand. Just posted part of your earlier post that showed that he did have a pickup. :-? :banana :)

[Pencil Pusher]

Yeah so maybe this old guy just needs to get laid. Then maybe he won't be so hateful. Otherwise, if you have enough time (and it sounds like you do), use LW or a BB gun to do some behavior conditioning.

[smokymtnsteve]

how'd I know??...I know hillbillies I is one.

and this ole boy sounds likea real one too...we might have us here what us highlanders call a Belail...


From the chapter "Back of Beyond," of Horace Kephart's book "OUR SOUTHERN HIGHLANDERS" this song is taken from the story of Kephart's encounter with a local, a pig he names Belial. Kephart had studied Dante while in Florence, Italy, and takes this name (Belial) from one of Dante's devils. Kep ruins Belial's tail with his "naildriver" of a rifle, and then "Exit Belial! It was equivalent to a broken heart. "He emigrated, or committed suicide, I know not which, but the Smoky Mountains knew him no more."


Kephart, Kephart, Belial's in the briar
Coming through the laurel, eyes on the fire
Kephart, Kephart, aim your rifle well
That pig would cross a rotten log
Over the flames of hell

He baked a pone in an open pit at the ending of the day
Pepper pie, would keep the pigs at bay
But one old boar they called Belial
That greedy pig was first to find the pepper on the plate,
Mouth on fire, his heart then turned to hate


AFTER feeding belial the cornbread with hot pepper belial got meaner and more aggressive Ole Kep knew belial was real proud of his tail..(kinda like lone wolf is real proud of his new harley :D ) so ole kep shot his tail but not all the way off..kep ws a crack shot and just nicked belial's tail and broke it so for the rest of his life belial had to go with the broken tail....so he left and never came back...you have shoot(this time film) you have broken his tail...maybe sentencce this guy to LNT classes and then make him visit local schools and give LNT classes to the kids.. make him show his broken tail.

[geoffrey morris]

It's out of my hands know, the US district attorney in our area wants to fry his ass.

[geoffrey morris]

:p I'm sure he needs to get laid.His wife left him a few years ago. Maybe he'll meet a real nice cell mate late this year.:D

[geoffrey morris]

Hey guys don't get me wrong.I'm all for live and let live.I just finally got tired of the mountain of trash. I wouldn't even invite friends up because of the embarassment.It makes all who live up this road seem like trashy folks who don't give a damn.Well that's not how I was raised. Being from NYC as a kid,I understand the value of the wilderness.It's a shame that folk like this guy don't value the land,they need it taken away from them.That's kinda how this whole hiker hater mentality started.The USFS wanted to enforce the national scenic trails act,went about aquiring land for the AT and people didn't like it.So here we are and round and round we go.Did you all know that the trail once went down the raod in front of this guys house?Before it was relocated.

[SGT Rock]

Well you gotta understand how mountain people think. The history of that particular part of TN and NC is very interesting that residents often fought both sides in the Civil War because they don't like any government telling them what to do.

[Pencil Pusher]

That sounds about right, Steve. Take away a guy's Harley and make him drive a Vesper scooter... that's sucking in the pride for sure!;) How about it, LW? If you did something wrong and that was the court's judgement, would that be a significant punishment?

[Lone Wolf]

I don't break laws.

[Pencil Pusher]

That wasn't the question.

[Lone Wolf]

Do you ride the bus or take your lunch to school?

[Pencil Pusher]

I don't break laws.

[smokymtnsteve]

. Being from NYC as a kid,I understand the value of the wilderness.It's a shame that folk like this guy don't value the land,they need it taken away from them..


New York City...you might understand the value of wilderness but you shore don't understand Southern Highlanders.

Need it taken away from them???...you do understand that IT HAS been taken away from them..that is part of the ongoing problem.

Oh now is this ole boy gonna be pissed...and don't kind yoreself...they ain't a locking nobody up for throwing some garbage. they might fine him and give him probation but that will be the extent of it...unless he is already on probation and they add a probabtion/parole violation..

don't git me wrong..I ain't defending what this boy has done..I jists know about hillbillies...cause I ain't from NYC...I'm from hillbilly territory. LORD HELP YOU SON...

[Brushy Sage]

Lots of the law enforcement people, judges included, are from around those parts, and understand the social structures -- as is true in other areas as well.

[geoffrey morris]

Hi all,
Steve(who is from Atlanta,not what I'd call the country), I said as a kid(from birth to 2 years old) and spent summers there as a teen.A little back ground for you about me. I've lived in a lot of different places as a kid.Never had a place that I would call home until I came to Roan mnt.And have been in tennessee for more than 20 years now. I understand southern mentality very well. I deal with it every day.You think that I don't but you don't know me.
As far as the land issue,You don't know **** about it. We(my family) were forced to sell a scenic easement to the USFS(for your beloved trail) or have our farm taken by right of eminent domain. You are the one who does not understand the value of the land.Have you ever had your livelyhood threatened by uncle Sam?Didn't think so! I don't mean to have an attitude ,sorry. You just think because someone is from the north( as a child )that they can't possible understand they way people in the south think or feel. Trust me when I say that I know how people feel in regard to the land acquisition issue. I'v felt the hatered towards the government and the trail, but I have learned to deal with it. In fact I've grown to support the trail and the idea of preserving a place where we all can enjoy the outdoors.
Let me say a thing or two about this ass who trashes the trail everyday.He hates you,me,the government,the trail and everyone that uses it. To give you an idea of the kind of scum that these people are,I once saw this man's son dump old fuel he drained from his dirt bike into the creek and then throw the container in the creek as well.What a way to raise your kid huh?Would you do such a thing?I don't know you but get the feeling that you wouldn't.
Get this, one day I went down to clean the trail and found a large trash bag filled with nothing but used toilet paper.Yea, with real **** on it.This guy went out of his way to save up his **** wipes untill he had a trash bag full and then tossed it on the trail for all of us to see.How long does it take to fill a trash bag up with used toilet paper?You know, one day he saw me cleaning up his handy work, well it must of pissed him off because he started putting used insulin needles in the trash bags, I guess hoping that it would keep me from picking the stuff up.Nice huh?
Steve I'd like to think that we're on the same side in this matter.Maybe taking his land and putting him in jail is too extreme.What would you like to see done about it?It's went on for years now and I'm tired of it.Imagine a mini land fill call the AT(AT meaning Always Trashed in this case), that's how bad it was at one time.

[Doc]

Glad that something is going to finally happen the the guy flipping his trash all around the road crossing. Last year when I came through it was clear that the trash was an act of hatred and not simply good ol boys tossing empties out the window. This person was clearly trying to make a statement and it got through. I certainly did not feel safe in that place and kept moving. At the time I assumed that it was an act by most of the local community. I'm glad to find that it seems to be mostly one guy who sounds to be pretty primitive.

Doc

[Lone Wolf]

you've been deleted minnesota.

[minnesotasmith]

I take it, then, that you believe that if the cops do nothing but fine the guy fifty bucks one time (refusing to ever hold him any more responsible), that he gets away with it? That he can drop human fecal wastes and used hypodermic needles on the Trail (maybe graduating to setting up booby traps for hikers), and that's just too bad for us? I will predict that this guy will go on to doing more extreme stuff before he is stopped, if the current bit of legal trouble doesn't make a real point of clipping his wings, so to speak.

[Noggin]

you've been deleted minnesota.
Did someone give L. Wolf the forum controls? I hate censoring posts. What did minnesota say?

[minnesotasmith]

I posted some ideas on how someone might well take revenge against this Trail-wrecker, if the LEOs don't reign him in. LW got mad at me because my list included some traditional things people often do to other people's domestic animals when they don't quite want to physically hurt another human, but feel they need to make a point that won't be ignored.

[Lone Wolf]

Noggin, I don't control a thing on this board. Minnesota was talking about poisoning/torturing the guys animals and such.

[Rocalousas]

Minnesota was talking about poisoning/torturing the guys animals and such.
Gross. Whatever this guy did, leave his innocent animals alone.

[geoffrey morris]

I wanted to reply to some posts about the treatment of animals. Let it be know that I have always been an animal lover and no matter what this litterer does I would never target his animals. What can I do?
What do we do if the law doesn't teach this guy a powerful lesson?I would never post threats in a forum, kinda stupid don't ya' think? Plus it sorta' limits the things that one might do for real. I really hope that the judge will hand down the maximum punishment.Soon, I will post the contact info for the US district attorney that we the people will need in order to make our combined voice heard.Maybe if thousands of people express their desire to see this guy punished to the max. we will see some results.
One other thing before I go. I was cleaning the trail today and the trash-ass drove by.As he was about to toss a can or something he saw me on the trail picking up his crap, he threw whatever it was in his lap and waved with a suprised and ill look. I hope it was a cup of boiling hot piss that scalded his balls. Wouldn't that be cool:D ??

[Pencil Pusher]

Hey Geoff, post some pics of this dude. You should have plenty laying around, right?

[geoffrey morris]

Hi pencil pusher,:-?
All I have is some video. No photos. The USFS also has video and maybe photos. It might be possible to post some photos of him, but I'm not sure that it's a good idea.Maybe after he goes to trial.This investigation isn't complete and I don't want to cause any problems for the LEO and her case. I have some photos of the trash that I took about a year ago. I'll see what I can do. It's not like in the movies where you see pictures plastered all around the room. It's more like I take this *******'s trash to the dump once a week, not to metion that I have to pick it up of the trail everyday. I get the feeling that you think that I'm obsessed with all this mess. I just want to see the trash and those responsible put in it's place,don't you?Maybe you don't understand how bad the trash really is? If I let it pile up for several days, it's enough to fill a large trash can. I wished I would have saved all his trash so I could dump it in his yard. I might have to do something like that after he is charged. Do you have any suggestions as to what should be done about all this mess?What would you do differently??

[Hikerhead]

It's out of my hands know, the US district attorney in our area wants to fry his ass.

Whatever came of this situation?

[Slimer]

Well, well..........MS has revealed to us his "traditional" methods of "revenge". I can't believe that this fact-spewing, spreadsheeting moron could ever do such a thing much less post it for all to see. Your post says wonders about yourself. Give yourself a big pat on the back!

[magic_game03]

I'm just replying to the original post:

THAT AREA IS STILL NOT SAFE!!! I DONT CARE WHAT LW OR BJ SAYS!!!

in numbers most hikers are ok but keep your eyes peeled. just a couple of weeks ago i found numerious bags of fresh trash and razor blades. most of the locals are cool after 20 years of bad blood, but just around 19E is bad. Bob says there is a motion sensor camera hidden there to prosecute the A-holes but it doesn't stop them.

[swift]

I went through this area on 4/29/03 and wrote about it in my journal under that date. There is a cemetary and when you get to it the trail makes a left. If you happened to be looking to the right as I was, someone had painted an additional set of whiteblazes that took you uphill on a pointless 2 mile loop. Once on the loop the blaze back to the AT was not visible. It wasn't until the 3rd time I passed the same fallen tree over the same creek that I realized what was happening, started back-tracking and ran into another thru-hiker who also got suckered. Upon closer inspection of the whiteblazes we noticed the paint was very fresh and that the blazes were not at all the same size. Luckily right about the time it was getting dark someone drove up on an ATV and led us back to the Trail.

The following day another thru-hiker named (A Boy Named)Sue walked into the shelter we were at and told us of his experience the previous night: He got to the loop area right at dark and decided to pitch camp in the field there. Around 9 o'clock a 4WD truck pulled to within 30 feet of his tent with their brights on the tent. Sue got out of the tent to see what was going on and several men got out of the truck but stayed behind the lights of the vehicle so he couldn't see them. One guy kept asking him repeatedly (6 or 7 times he said) if he was alone and he averted answering the question by asking them what was going on and what it is they wanted. None of the other men said anything and the one guy who was talking was apparently very drunk and slurring his words heavily. After a few minutes of this the men got back into the truck and drove away. 15 minutes later the truck returned, circled Sue's tent a few times and then parked in the same spot and turned off the lights. Sue was scared to death and stayed in his tent. After half an hour the truck started up and drove away. Sue packed his stuff in the dark and hiked out of there.

[Lone Wolf]

Why doesn't cool stuff like that happen to me? :D

[Tater]

Just what you'd expect to happen in them mountains to a boy named Sue.

[The Solemates]

Just what you'd expect to happen in them mountains to a boy named Sue.

heard that...

[Mouse]

Last summer I saw several spots with what looked like a trail of sloppy oversized white blazes. But gradually it looked more and more likely that they were actually boundary markers for the Trail corridor, NOT a false trail. Confusing, but probably not malicious.

[Lion King]

The area directly after Apple Orchard shelter is a wreck..the stream there is full of thigns from Washers and dryers to trash to diapers...seems it is just a dumping ground.



Lots of old school folk there lost their lands to government takeovers or what have you, from what I heard...maybe not exactly right, but everyone has a story.



My experiance through there has been good.

From locals who gave me a ride into Roan, to the PO, waited on me and took me back to the trail after taking me to lunch. To the Guy who owns the New Beer Wash...I hadnt heard of his place in 2003 and was headed to the hotel in Elk Park to get out of the rain...and even though he had a hiker place that was offering cheap places I told him I had called ahead and told the cheap hotel in E. Prk I was coming...he took me the whole way in, gave me a coke and an orange, dropped off more trail magic at the trail and gave me a card and welcomed me anytime I was around.



The thing is this, you can find trouble anywhere if you look hard enough, you can find good folks by just opening your eyes.

LK

[Freeze]

Besides all the trash on the trail at 19E, no problems. I did leave in a hurry though. those who dumped their trash there might not be too friendly towards hickers. But then again. don't know. I did not stick around to find out.

[Mountain Dew]

WELCOME to WhiteBlaze SWIFT. I not only remember those fake white blazes I was only a day behind you in that area and guessed which way to go after a long pause to check my information. I know quit a few hikers who went the wrong way and did the loop on the fake blazes.

:welcome

[Rocks 'n Roots]

I used to maintain the New York Long Path in New York. That trail used private property in the connector sections in the suburbs. Some of those sections had cable TV tower roads or woods roads leading into them where we would periodically find giant piles of construction debris from home renovation jobs. The contractors were looking to save dumping fees. One day in the Nyack section I found an entire deck, walls, and innards from a removed section of house lying right in the middle of the Long Path. When you come upon debris like this it becomes your problem. Try maintaining in New York if you don't like trashers!


In another town park section 5 miles south we used to come across wrecked cars in the woods that drunk kids had abandoned after joy-riding at night. The ranger told me the state prevented their removal because they were still technically private property. Their rotting batteries and smashed glass served as trailside attractions...


Being further away from the Roan trasher, I also agree a lighter penalty might serve the long-run better. A high penalty would mean a condo or ski tower built right on the Trail would be OK while trash that will eventually stop would be slammed...

[c.coyle]

Last summer I saw several spots with what looked like a trail of sloppy oversized white blazes. But gradually it looked more and more likely that they were actually boundary markers for the Trail corridor, NOT a false trail. Confusing, but probably not malicious.

If you were in Pa., those were State Gamelands blazes:

Pa. Gamelands Blazes (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2873/size/big/sort/1/cat/500)

[Lion King]

If you were in Pa., those were State Gamelands blazes:

Pa. Gamelands Blazes (http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/2873/size/big/sort/1/cat/500)
HAHAHAH!

Been there...1998 walked in big ass circle right before Caldonia STate Park...said 'screw this' after about an hour of frustration and bushwached into the direction of teh sound of cars...came out only about 2 miles from where the trail crosses.