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sharky
05-17-2009, 20:38
In mid to late August I'm planning a 5-7 day backpacking trip through the Presidentials. I've never been and I'd like to hit as many of the summits as I can but I'm up for 7-10 miles a day. I've heard great things about the Franconia Range, but I'm open to ideas and all advice.

I'm also looking for a good safe place to leave my car. I've been told about a place called Hikers Welcome near Moosilauke that could help me there and use them as a shuttle since I'm going alone. Does anyone have a number I could reach them at?

Chaco Taco
05-17-2009, 20:40
In mid to late August I'm planning a 5-7 day backpacking trip through the Presidentials. I've never been and I'd like to hit as many of the summits as I can but I'm up for 7-10 miles a day. I've heard great things about the Franconia Range, but I'm open to ideas and all advice.

I'm also looking for a good safe place to leave my car. I've been told about a place called Hikers Welcome near Moosilauke that could help me there and use them as a shuttle since I'm going alone. Does anyone have a number I could reach them at?
603-989-5154

Its awesome!!! Dont do big miles go nice and slow. As Phat Chapp puts it, "Its the Whip cream and cherry of the AT"

sharky
05-17-2009, 20:43
Is 7-10 miles too much? I'm 24 and in decent shape and willing to put my body through a little hell. I know the area can be dangerous, I'm pretty experienced for my age.

Chaco Taco
05-17-2009, 20:46
May want to push for longer days. Are you doing Glencliffe to Pinkham Notch (80 miles)??

Chaco Taco
05-17-2009, 20:47
You have daylight on your side. The big 3 climbs will take time, just get an early start and take your time.

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 20:49
Your car would be pretty safe if you left it at Pinkham Notch and took the AMC shuttle to your starting point. The parking there is free, too. The hostel at Glencliff is great (a stay there just before or just after your hike would be recommended), but it's a bit of a drive to the Prezzies.

No, 7-10 miles is perfect to shoot for.

Blissful
05-17-2009, 20:49
You'll do fine. You're young. :)

Another option is to go to the AMC web site and check out their shuttle service. You can park your car in secure areas there and get shuttled for a fee. They shuttle all around that area specifically as Glenciliff and the other shuttle is a little more out of the way. The Glencliff Hiker Hostel shuttle would be good if you plan to do the Kinsman / Moosilauke area. But check on rates and compare.

sharky
05-17-2009, 20:50
I haven't decided yet I'm still looking at maps. Is the AMC the best source for maps? I heard there was a 5 day, 40 mile horse shoe shaped trail that covers a lot of peaks. Is mid August a good time to go?

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 20:51
Oh, and info on the AMC shuttle can be found here: www.outdoors.org (http://www.outdoors.org)

Blissful
05-17-2009, 20:51
mid August is a great time but you can get sleet up there. And bad winds. We did. Just watch the weather reports.

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 20:58
Mid-August is a good time, but you could get some wet, foul weather. Be prepared.

I did a peak-bagging trip last fall -- I hit 13 peaks in 5 days. Started at Franconia Notch and followed the AT to Washington, then headed straight down from there to Pinkham. Had I not encountered bad weather, I could have bagged a few more peaks before heading down. Still, it was a great hike! I recommend it.

You're probably thinking of the Presidential Traverse. You don't need 5 days to do it, though. More like 1-3 days. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Presidential_Traverse

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 20:59
Blissful, I think we're reading each other's minds!

sharky
05-17-2009, 20:59
I have four section maps from the AMC. I have Crawford Notch-Sandwich Range, Moosilauke-Kinsman, Carter Range-Evans Notch, and North Country-Mahoosuc. I refuse to do the hut system for reasons beyond the fact that I can't afford it.

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 21:02
You can easily get around the hut system. No need to stay in them at all.

There are better maps out there. I have this one and love it:
http://www.mapadventures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=12

sharky
05-17-2009, 21:05
Pokey, what was the mileage on your trip? that sounds perfect for me. Did you like the Franconia area? I have given myself a lot of time to get info and possibly a smaller lighter pack, but given the fact that the weather could be very foul that time of year I'm starting to think my Osprey Aether 75 would do just fine.

Snowleopard
05-17-2009, 21:09
One alternative to AMC huts are the Randolph Mountain Club shelters are quite nice and cost $7 to $12. They're near/below Mts. Adams, Jefferson, Madison.

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 21:10
Franconia Ridge is awesome! The nice part about starting there, at least for me, was I could make sure I caught it on a clear day. Amazing views.

I did about 8-12 miles a day, including side trips to some of the peaks not on my regular route.

sharky
05-17-2009, 21:20
I was told about the tent sites which are what I would prefer since I hate mice at $8-$12/night?

Pokey, at Franconia is there a safe place for your car there? I'm curious what your total mileage was just point to point? I'm paranoid about a safe place to leave my car since I'm alone and a friend of mine just had their car broken into last weekend in Mt Rogers.

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 21:33
Yes, I've left a car at Franconia without any problems. I do like Pinkham's, though, because you can park practically right in front of the visitor center. And on the hike I did, it was nice to end at my car.

There are places to camp without paying the fee. Look for spots in flat areas below tree line starting a mile or two before the pay sites. In some places, there are spots exactly 1/4 mile away from the huts (can't camp within 1/4 mile of them). You'll be able to figure it out...but do bring cash to pay for sites, just in case.

weary
05-17-2009, 21:40
Don't stick to the AT. It bypasses several interesting peaks in the Presidentials. Read the maps carefully. You'll see that it by passes several higher and more scenic peaks. There is no need to stay at the huts as several have mentioned. But I recommend staying at two or three if you can afford it.I would stay, for instance, at Madison Springs, and Lake of the Clouds. But then I'm almost 60 years beyond 24.

sharky
05-17-2009, 21:44
I'm staying on the AT, so are there no shelter areas there? That just seems weird to me. Just so I have a number, what was your total mileage? Its easier than me with a string and a map trying to figure it out. Was there plenty of trees to pitch a bear rope?

sharky
05-17-2009, 21:47
I'd like to stick to the AT because my navigational skills are sub-par and this probably isnt the area to test those raw skills.

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 21:48
I can't recall the total mileage on the trip I did. 50 miles, maybe? It was within the range of what you're planning to do.

There are shelters, they just charge you to use them. The Ethan Pond shelter, for example. But about two miles before the shelter, there are several nice, legal FREE campsites. Do tread lightly, though, as this whole area is heavily used.

Yes, there are plenty of trees for bear bagging. You cannot camp above treeline, so...

Pokey2006
05-17-2009, 21:49
I'd like to stick to the AT because my navigational skills are sub-par and this probably isnt the area to test those raw skills.

I think he might have been talking about some of the side trails you can take to bag peaks along the way. They're not far off the AT; in some cases, you can still see the AT from the side trails. Get the other map I gave you the link for -- it more clearly shows those side trails.

Chaco Taco
05-17-2009, 22:21
The side trails up Adams and Eisenhower and the rest are great. The Presidentials are amazing if you have the weather in your favor.

Bearpaw
05-17-2009, 22:26
I'd like to stick to the AT because my navigational skills are sub-par and this probably isnt the area to test those raw skills.

If your nav skills are weak, you should probably hike somewhere other than the Presidentials until they are stronger. In many areas, white blazes are few and far between, and poorly maintained even then. Many of the signs neglect to mention the AT, instead calling it by local AMC names. When a storm and fog rolls in, cutting visibility to maybe 50 feet (or less), it's no time to realize you can't orient your map with a compass and are unsure which direction to head.

It's not bushwhacking, but the Whites probably require more nav skill than any other place on the AT.

sharky
05-18-2009, 00:52
I can navigate relatively well with a good map. If the maps aren't accurate then I'm screwed. I know how to orient a map in the correct cardinal direction and look where I'm going from there out.

Bearpaw
05-18-2009, 09:24
I can navigate relatively well with a good map. If the maps aren't accurate then I'm screwed. I know how to orient a map in the correct cardinal direction and look where I'm going from there out.

You should be fine then. Just be sure to check your map at intersections, because the AT is not always listed on signs.

sharky
05-18-2009, 09:39
Are the AMC maps the best to get?

Homer&Marje
05-18-2009, 10:12
I always suggest the Pemi Loop. You get to hit a lot of good summits and great trails.

Summit list includes Bond, Bondcliff, Guyot, South Twin, Garfield, Lincoln, Lafayette, Little Haystack, Flume and Liberty. Easy side trips to Galehead, West Bond and maybe others. Start off In Lincoln Woods Parking Lot and end up there again in 5-7 days. About 36 miles but they are hard miles.

Can't beat it in my opinion for convenience and peak bagging the Whites.

http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/7/8/4/6/53340009.jpg

jarenoldss
05-18-2009, 10:34
As someone said above I would do some of the Pemi loop as well. It can get busy around lafayette during the summer but so do the presidentials. I would strongly recommend doing the Bonds, the greatest hike I have ever done.

Phoenix7
05-18-2009, 11:19
If you're going to park your car at some of the trail heads, you might want to get a parking sticker for your car. I get mine every year at exit 23 on I93. Take the exit East and there is a White Mountains headquarters within 20 yards off the Interstate.

buff_jeff
05-18-2009, 12:38
While we're on it, does anyone know when the new maps for the Whites and Vermont are coming out?

buff_jeff
05-18-2009, 13:36
I just looked it up:

Back-orders for the 11th edition [Vermont and New Hampshire] (in progress) can be taken. New book has been printed, and the maps are at the printer, expected mid-June. We hope to start shipping back-orders June 15.

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 16:38
Are the AMC maps the best to get?

Personally, I'd go with the Map Adventures one in the link I posted. It covers both Franconia and the Prezzies, plus the Carters and some of the Sandwich Range, so you only need to buy one map instead of two or more. On the back of the map it has a zoom-in of the Presidential ridge, which is helpful considering the sheer numbers of trails there.

Whatever you do, DON'T get the ATC maps. They're the worst I've seen for this area.

Peaks
05-18-2009, 17:29
I just looked it up:

Back-orders for the 11th edition [Vermont and New Hampshire] (in progress) can be taken. New book has been printed, and the maps are at the printer, expected mid-June. We hope to start shipping back-orders June 15.

I've had a promise on those new maps for about 6 months now.

Homer&Marje
05-18-2009, 17:40
Got National Geographic Topo. Not thrilled with it but it works. And it does print out good quality maps....once you've spent painstaking hours making them:D

emerald
05-18-2009, 18:20
Whatever you do, DON'T get the ATC maps. They're the worst I've seen for this area.

You might do your audience and ATC a greater service were you to explain what you see as the shortcomings of this particular map set.

It would be reasonable to expect they're being replaced by improved maps. Anyone who has seen the new ATC maps care to make a comparison with the older maps or AMC maps or those provided by others?

When I read what some people post, I wonder how I could have suceeded with such inferior equipment. Maybe gear is not so so important after all?

Bearpaw
05-18-2009, 18:38
You might do your audience and ATC a greater service were you to explain what you see as the shortcomings of this particular map set.

The biggest issue with many ATC maps is they provide very little information on other trails in the area. This was especially true of the Whites when I hiked there 10 years ago. There were a number of trails not on the ATC map, and of those that were shown, most were not named. This is information that would have been very helpful, particularly if one needed to get down below treeline quickly due to severe weather.

Blissful
05-18-2009, 18:56
I used AMC maps myself that came with a White Mtn hiking guide I purchased several years ago. Drawback is the paper they were printed on, but they showed all the trails in the region (which I believe is important for bailout purposes as Bearpaw said). But a compass is good to have in this region also.

In good weather the Whites are spectacular. In bad weather you will be highly challenged for certain. Been there in both...

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 18:59
What Bearpaw said.

The ATC maps are fine if you're staying on the AT. I like the elevation profiles...for that one trail. Thing is, there are SEVERAL trails in the Whites. The ATC maps show very, very few of these other trails.

The map I linked to includes pretty much all of the hiking trails in the White Mtns. It also gives a clearer view of the topo lines and various landmarks, plus notes the mileage of each trail from point A to point B.

For someone with iffy navigational skills, wanting to do some peakbagging and possible off-AT hiking in the Whites, trying to use the ATC map would not be something I would recommend.

sharky
05-18-2009, 19:29
Pokey, was the link you said the map was really good the mapadventures.com link? That looks like a really good map. Do they really give the mileage so I don't have to spend time with a string figuring the whole thing out on my own?

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 19:51
Yes, that's the one I'm talking about. I love the mileage feature. Of course, you still have to do the math to add up the miles of all the different sections you're doing, as it gives mileage in sections. But it is handy.

Yes, that map I linked to is really good. I have a bunch of different White Mtns. maps, and that one is my personal fav.

BostonAndy
05-18-2009, 20:02
What stores carry those maps?

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 20:09
Hmmm. Good question. I honestly don't even remember where I got mine. Sometimes you can find really good maps in odd places, like convenience stores and gas stations, once you're actually in the area.

sharky
05-18-2009, 20:28
Pokey you and another ridgerunner friend of mine have sold me on doing the Franconia Range. Where is a good place to leave my car and/or get a shuttle in that area? I wouldnt know where to begin navigating from where I'm coming from. I did the AAA trip tracker from me to rt 25 and it said 507 miles. Where would I go to to start at Franconia?

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 20:37
Go to Pinkham Notch and take the AMC shuttle to Franconia. Then hike to your car. If something happens and you can't make it all the way, you can always get another shuttle back to your car. The shuttle makes stops in Crawford Notch.

Or did you want to do the Pemi Loop? In which case, drive up I-93 to the Kancamangus Highway, park and do a loop hike.

Franconia Ridge is awesome -- you'll love it. Just check the weather before heading out.

sharky
05-18-2009, 20:54
I have no idea where the Pemi Loop is or what it is. Is the AMC shuttle info in the map link you gave me? What town would I check out for the weather?

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 20:59
AMC shuttle: http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lodging-shuttle.cfm

The visitor's center at Pinkham Notch will post the weather report, including weather for the "high summits."

sheri
05-18-2009, 21:35
The ideal forum where you will detailed expert advice is the Mt. Washington Observatory forums!! Go to: www.mountwashington.org (http://www.mountwashington.org) -- Find the forums in the banner -- Click forums - click White Mountain Hikes. The people on this forum are just awesome and so eager to help. This forum is a "must" for you!
sheri

Tinker
05-18-2009, 21:42
I have no idea where the Pemi Loop is or what it is. Is the AMC shuttle info in the map link you gave me? What town would I check out for the weather?

The Pemigewasset loop probably includes the Bonds and Bondcliff. I'm not sure that there's an official loop. I've done a couple in the Pemi.
Here's a direct link to AMC Pinkham Notch weather forcasts:
http://www.outdoors.org/recreation/tripplanner/go/pinkham-washington-weather.cfm

sharky
05-18-2009, 22:33
Thanks pokey for the map advice. I just ordered it so I'll make sure to give you crap if I can't make sense of it. This sounds like the clear easy solution to my map problems...think it is?

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 22:37
Ha ha! Yes, by all means, post on here to let us know what you think of the map!

Between that map, the info in this thread, and the links everyone has shared, I think you'll have more than enough to go on.

It'll be a great hike -- enjoy!

sharky
05-18-2009, 22:46
Now I just need to figure out which is the best route to take to get there from the south driving up there. Also I definitely need to get a lighter stove from my MSR Dragonfly, which I love but its heavy!

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 23:02
www.mapquest.com (http://www.mapquest.com)

sharky
05-18-2009, 23:43
Mapquest is evil. They have sent me to roads that don't exist. Whats the main drag that I should be shooting for in Franconia?

Pokey2006
05-18-2009, 23:56
I-93 is the main highway into NH. Mapquest and any roadmap will show you the way -- it's all on main highways.

Homer&Marje
05-19-2009, 06:08
The Pemigewasset loop probably includes the Bonds and Bondcliff. I'm not sure that there's an official loop. I've done a couple in the Pemi.
Here's a direct link to AMC Pinkham Notch weather forcasts:
http://www.outdoors.org/recreation/tripplanner/go/pinkham-washington-weather.cfm


It might not be official but all of the rangers know it as the Pemi Loop.

Starts in Lincoln woods parking lot you take the wilderness trail in past franconia falls, take a left onto Bondcliff Trail up and over the bonds to Guyot, over the Twinway on South Twin and then over to Garfield Ridge, Franconia Ridge and back down the Oseo Trail to link up with the wilderness trail again and out.

I have a great map of it. I'll try and get a good digital photo that can be printed. I am moving though...and can't find my old maps.....can't believe I thought I might not need them...that doesn't sound like me..

Homer&Marje
05-19-2009, 12:25
Here's the pics and another link to them.

Just follow the circle:D
http://picasaweb.google.com/HomerAndMarje/PemigewassetWilderness#5337566881842994338

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ldP-jp9aBzY/ShLb0vYLp9I/AAAAAAAABaM/VNQRX-LO0WY/s400/SDC11060.JPG

http://lh6.ggpht.com/_ldP-jp9aBzY/ShLYzrTp9ZI/AAAAAAAABZo/Q_uwKxzAJgo/s512/SDC11065.JPG

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ldP-jp9aBzY/ShLYzU_wnzI/AAAAAAAABZk/I1FoClGveeo/s512/SDC11064.JPG

---------------------------------->> Lincoln Woods Parking Lot
---------------------------------->> Right Off I-93 somewhere right here:D

Tom Murphy
05-19-2009, 12:50
http://www.davidalbeck.com/hiking/pemiloop.html

sharky
05-20-2009, 00:18
What was the mileage on that loop?

Pokey2006
05-20-2009, 01:05
It's only about 30 miles or so. It's really a weekend hike, not a 5-7 day thing like you're looking for.

Though, you could stretch it out if you wanted to. When you get your new map, you'll be able to take a look and plot something out.

sharky
05-20-2009, 01:18
How come Franconia was not listed on that diagram of the AMC shuttle service? Is it called something different?

Pokey2006
05-20-2009, 01:25
Yeah, Liberty Spring is what you're looking for.

Pokey2006
05-20-2009, 01:29
Looks like the shuttle you want leaves Pinkham at 10 a.m., gets to the trailhead just before 2 p.m. That basically means a short day up to the Liberty Springs campsite, and the next day, go from there.

Homer&Marje
05-20-2009, 05:45
Way easier just to park at Lincoln Woods Parking lot and do the loop. For extra hiking there are plenty of things to do. Going up to Thirteen Falls and doing the Owls Head loop and Galehead is a nice hike. Liberty spring trail and Flume Side Trail makes a nice loop to add miles if that's what you want.

Otherwise....the straight loop...either way you go....is what Pokey said about 32 miles....add in Galehead Mtn, West Bond, and Owls Head loop your up to 40+. I do the straight loop in 5 days and have a great time. Short hard miles every day....lots of enjoying the sites cause there's lots of em.

sharky
05-20-2009, 22:23
What is the bear rope situation up there? Is it everyone for themselves? Will I need a canister? I would love it if they had the pulley system that is in the southern appalachians.

Homer&Marje
05-21-2009, 06:28
What is the bear rope situation up there? Is it everyone for themselves? Will I need a canister? I would love it if they had the pulley system that is in the southern appalachians.

You should bear bag up till around 4000' at least. And critter bag it above that. The bears are less of a worry than red squirrels, mice, and other little guys that can knaw through your bag.

There might be better info but I've heard black bears in the Whites live below 4k generally.

amac
05-22-2009, 08:38
There are better maps out there. I have this one and love it:
http://www.mapadventures.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=1&products_id=12

Based on the recommendations of the MapAdventures maps, in this thread, I ordered a set Monday of this week. They arrived yesterday (Thursday). They look like GREAT maps. The maps illustrate beautifully all the terrain and loads of trails. The trails are coke-can red so they are much easier to see than the dashed-line on USGS topo maps. This will make it very easy to plan my own routes or modify while enroute..

Thanks for the recommendation!

Tom Murphy
05-22-2009, 10:42
Yeah Those Are Great Maps !

sharky
05-22-2009, 22:57
I'm an experienced backpacker especially for my age, but I've never been in the Whites. It's been recommended to me that I don't do this as a solo trip.

Is there anyone willing to meet up with me and do this hike with me?

sharky
05-22-2009, 23:39
Pokey this map is awesome! When I get some real time to plan things out I will decide on my route....the hardest part of this is deciding where to go!

Pokey2006
05-23-2009, 00:37
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, I love that map too!

I hike alone in the Whites all the time. As long as you're an experienced hiker otherwise, and you pay attention to the weather, you'll be fine.

sharky
05-23-2009, 00:56
Paying attention to the weather? I used to spend a lot of time out in the southwest and could see storms coming hours away, is that the type of thing you mean?

Pokey2006
05-23-2009, 01:02
Well, weather can come on suddenly in the Whites, but that's not unlike other mountainous regions. Here, though, you can get caught above treeline, and it can be cold.

Again, it's not unlike other mountainous regions. Don't listen to all the hype and doomsday prophets who think every hike in the Whites is a life or death struggle. Just use common sense and always be prepared to head downhill quickly if the weather turns on you suddenly.

Tinker
05-23-2009, 09:37
Is 7-10 miles too much? I'm 24 and in decent shape and willing to put my body through a little hell. I know the area can be dangerous, I'm pretty experienced for my age.

Biggest dangers are trailhead vandals and theives and theives on the trails. If you leave your tent set up and unattended, don't leave anything of value in it.
Bears have been an increasing problem in the Whites. There are a number of shelters and tentsites with bear boxes now. Contact the AMC to find out which ones have them and where bears might be a problem. The practice of having a "wash pit" where people clean their pots and pans tends to attract animals, especially if folks, for whatever reason, dump large quantities of uneaten food there.

Snowleopard
05-23-2009, 15:30
Paying attention to the weather? I used to spend a lot of time out in the southwest and could see storms coming hours away, is that the type of thing you mean?
That is probably NOT what's meant. You often can't see storms coming here. Weather can change very quickly. Weather above tree line can be much worse than in the valleys. Sometimes weather a little bit below treeline is much better than a little bit above treeline.
Just be prepared and you'll be fine. In the summer (June, July, August) the worst that you're likely to get is cold, heavy rain, strong winds. Bring rain gear and enough warm clothes that you don't get hypothermia in a cold windy rain and you'll be fine. The best you'll get will be perfect days with 100 mile visibility.
In the winter (Nov - April) go with someone experienced with the Whites in winter.

sharky
05-23-2009, 21:25
What is the difference between sites that are labeled "tent site and :campsite"? This probably seems like a stupid question, but I just need to make sure.

buckwheat
05-24-2009, 10:48
Are the AMC maps the best to get?

There are very good AMC maps of the White Mountains available at the Pinkham Notch Visitor's Center. A wide selection - from pocket sized quickie's to the complete $29.99 waterproof/laminated set. And everything in between.

I paid $9.95 for a "waterproof" but not laminated 1:42240 scale map showing both Crawford Notch State Park/Dry River Wildnerness; centering on Mt. Washington and showing the Pinkham Notch area. It's a very good map showing all trail names and distances between intersections. Inset blows up the Mt. Washington peak trail system (many, many trails there).

I have good map reading skills, but compass experience, and I would not hesitate to hike the area (in decent weather) using this one map.

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41cqAFLmeiL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

The name of the map was : AMC White Mountains Trail Map - Presidential Range. You can get it online at Amazon.com here

http://www.amazon.com/Presidential-Range-White-Mountains-Hampshire/dp/1934028002

Cheers,
Buckwheat

sharky
05-24-2009, 19:20
Are the tent sites one tent per site?

celt
05-24-2009, 22:58
What is the bear rope situation up there? Is it everyone for themselves? Will I need a canister? I would love it if they had the pulley system that is in the southern appalachians.

13 Falls Campsite in the Franconia Brook valley has a bear-box for food storage. Bears definitely roam at this elevation so proper food storage is smart. Cooking away from any tenting area is also a good idea and is very strongly encouraged by the 13 Falls caretaker.

The AMC campsites along the ridge don't have boxes but they are generally above the elevation bears like to roam. Finding trees for proper food hanging is difficult along the ridge but making due with what you can find isn't a bad idea. It might at least keep your bag from smaller scavengers.

celt
05-24-2009, 23:15
Are the tent sites one tent per site?

Not necessarily. It will depend on how busy the site is. An 8' x 10' single platform generally holds one two man tent but a 10' x 16' double can accomodate two tents. If its busy the caretaker may ask people to share to concentrate use at the site.


What is the difference between sites that are labeled "tent site and :campsite"? This probably seems like a stupid question, but I just need to make sure.

A "campsite" will have platforms for tents and a shelter. A "tentsite" will have only platforms or in the case of 13 Falls, earthen tent pads.

A list of the AMC tentsite and campsites and their "amenities" can be found here:

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/campsites/campsites-profile.cfm

sharky
05-25-2009, 19:25
A major oversite of mine was planning and realizing that I will need to be in a hut one night after spending a night at Nauman. That looks to be Lake of The Clouds Hut, but I checked the reservations for the time I'm going to be there in early August and its booked. Is there a way to bargain a space with them? My only other option that day is to go from Nauman to Pinkham Notch and that seems like a recipe for disaster.

sharky
05-26-2009, 11:22
What is the weather like in early September?

Homer&Marje
05-26-2009, 17:15
What is the weather like in early September?

Gorgeous up there in early september. Think I have some pictures posted in my gallery of the early leaf change this year. 60's-70's + during the day mostly dropping sometimes to 20 or teens overnight. Overall perfect weather in my book. At elevation those numbers can drastically be different though...and snow is not out of the question at all. More than a dusting to a few inches is probably unlikely though.

johnnybgood
05-26-2009, 18:56
Going to New Hampshire in mid June and wanted to do some day hiking near Jefferson , any suggestions ?

Is the AMC website best for ordering maps and general hiking trails books ?

Homer&Marje
05-26-2009, 20:01
Going to New Hampshire in mid June and wanted to do some day hiking near Jefferson , any suggestions ?

Is the AMC website best for ordering maps and general hiking trails books ?

AMC White Mountain Guide is probably your best trail guide....then get a White Mountain Topo Map...National Geographic (The yellow ones) or any local topo...you could go to USGS and get specific locations for like $6 a sector.....don't know that the range is on that map...but it's the best deal if you know where your going and can use a map and compass and fill in your trail with red marker:D

celt
05-26-2009, 20:11
A major oversite of mine was planning and realizing that I will need to be in a hut one night after spending a night at Nauman. That looks to be Lake of The Clouds Hut, but I checked the reservations for the time I'm going to be there in early August and its booked. Is there a way to bargain a space with them? My only other option that day is to go from Nauman to Pinkham Notch and that seems like a recipe for disaster.

Have you considered The Perch Shelter? The Perch is 10.3 miles north of the Nauman Tentsites (5.5 miles north of Lakes Of The Clouds) and then 0.9 mile off the A.T. down the Israel Ridge Path. The shelter is a bit farther from the A.T. (and 950' lower) then most shelters but its a lot closer than Pinkham Notch. Two other alternatives closer than Pinkham are the Valley Way Tentsites, 11.8 miles from Nauman + 0.6 mile down the Valley Way Trail and about 900' lower; The Osgood Tentsite is on the A.T. 14.8 miles north of Nauman.

The Perch is maintained by the Randolph Mountain Club (RMC) and they also have two enclosed cabins in the vicinity of Mt. Adams.

RMC Perch web-page: http://www.randolphmountainclub.org/sheltersinfo/theperch.html

rickb
05-26-2009, 20:14
A major oversite of mine was planning and realizing that I will need to be in a hut one night after spending a night at Nauman. That looks to be Lake of The Clouds Hut, but I checked the reservations for the time I'm going to be there in early August and its booked. Is there a way to bargain a space with them? My only other option that day is to go from Nauman to Pinkham Notch and that seems like a recipe for disaster.

Walk from Nauman to the Perch (RMC Site). Not so tough.

sharky
05-26-2009, 21:59
What about from the Perch to Pinkham? It looks like an interesting navigation trick with all those other trails mixed in. I'm assuming there is also a charge to stay at the Perch?

celt
05-26-2009, 22:20
What about from the Perch to Pinkham? It looks like an interesting navigation trick with all those other trails mixed in. I'm assuming there is also a charge to stay at the Perch?

Its 9.3 miles from the A.T.s Junction with the Israel Ridge Path to Pinkham Notch. The trail junctions in the presidentials are generally well signed and the A.T.s White Blazes are there to send you down the right trail, if you pay attention.

The Perch costs $7. Its all on the RMC website.

sharky
05-26-2009, 22:56
Is there a place at Pinkham to crash? I'm coming from 12 hours away and don't plan on doing too much of the drive home immediately after finishing.

Tinker
05-26-2009, 22:57
A major oversite of mine was planning and realizing that I will need to be in a hut one night after spending a night at Nauman. That looks to be Lake of The Clouds Hut, but I checked the reservations for the time I'm going to be there in early August and its booked. Is there a way to bargain a space with them? My only other option that day is to go from Nauman to Pinkham Notch and that seems like a recipe for disaster.
In the fall of '07 I hiked up the Dry River Wilderness drainage to the Lakes of the Clouds hut. Two possibilities present themselves here, though you'll have to do the internet homework on your own.
1) Stay in the refuge room at the Lakes of the Clouds. A very small, dark, mouse infested hovel on the back of the hut, it has bunk space for six, I think.
2) Take a sharp right at the Lakes Hut and descend into the Dry River drainage. There are tentsites (not in the book as of 2007) that we passed on our way to the Lakes Hut. It would require some steep descent and a steep climb the next day to get back to the hut, but would be closer than the Perch, Crag Camp, or Gray Knob (all RMC facilities).
If you manage to make it all the way to Madison Hut, you can descend Valley Way Trail to the Valley Way Campsite (make sure it's open this year, it's been closed on and off for several years).

celt
05-26-2009, 23:37
Is there a place at Pinkham to crash? I'm coming from 12 hours away and don't plan on doing too much of the drive home immediately after finishing.

Joe Dodge Lodge is at Pinkham Notch.

http://www.outdoors.org/lodging/lodges/pnvc/index.cfm

There are many other places to stay to the south between Pinkham and North Conway or to the north in Gorham.

Tinker
05-26-2009, 23:42
Is there a place at Pinkham to crash? I'm coming from 12 hours away and don't plan on doing too much of the drive home immediately after finishing.

http://www.campsnh.com/dollycopp.htm Save some money.:)

celt
05-26-2009, 23:46
The Valley Way tentsite has been re-opened for a few years now.

sharky
05-26-2009, 23:54
If its mouse infested then its automatically out the window. Either way I go I still want to summit Mt Washington.

Has anyone ever walked down the summit road?

Pokey2006
05-27-2009, 02:37
I wouldn't want to walk down the auto road. There are other routes down that would be much more enjoyable.

You can stay in the Dungeon at Lakes of the Clouds. Not the nicest accomodations ever, but if you MUST stay at the hut, it'll work.

Sept. is often the best time to hike in the Whites.

sharky
05-27-2009, 09:50
The Dungeon is out! I'm leaning towards either the Osgood Tentsites or Valley Way. Whats the best route from there and still summit Washington and then down to Pinkham? Or would it be best to hit Washington coming from Nauman the previous day?

sharky
05-27-2009, 11:53
Is the Willey Range Trail a safer yet longer alternative route to Mt Webster compared to the Webster Cliff Trail? I've heard horror stories of the Webster Cliff Trail. This would be on my way to Nauman.

Do the caretakers at shelters have access to weather reports to areas ahead?

celt
05-28-2009, 20:34
I'm leaning towards either the Osgood Tentsites or Valley Way. Whats the best route from there and still summit Washington and then down to Pinkham? Or would it be best to hit Washington coming from Nauman the previous day?

Definitely go over Mt Washington on the day you hike from Nauman to Valley Way/Osgood, you go right over Mt. W if you follow the A.T. The A.T.'s local trail names are Webster Cliff Trail, Crawford Path, Gulfside Trail & The Osgood Trail.


Is the Willey Range Trail a safer yet longer alternative route to Mt Webster compared to the Webster Cliff Trail? I've heard horror stories of the Webster Cliff Trail. This would be on my way to Nauman.

The Willey Range has a steep climb from the Ethan Pond Trail (A.T.) to Mt. Willey. It might be shorter than the tough climb from Rt 302 up the Webster Cliff Trail but its steeper in places (it uses ladders). The Willey Range Trail is enjoyable and your idea isn't a bad one but I think the many great view points along the stretch of the Webster Cliff after the tough climb make it worth while.


Do the caretakers at shelters have access to weather reports to areas ahead

The AMC's backcountry caretakers and Hut croo should all post weather forecasts each morning. The Mount Washington Observatory meteorologists broadcast the weather each morning at 7:00 and it will include weather for the summits and valleys and a long term forecast. The Huts post a complete forecast with lots of extra data, the campsites version is a synopsis. Its worth dropping in at the front desk of a hut during the day to check it out the complete version.

Rambler
05-28-2009, 20:57
Celt might have some local knowledge about this book store:

http://www.mountainwanderer.com/

celt
05-28-2009, 22:24
Celt might have some local knowledge about this book store:

http://www.mountainwanderer.com/

Yes, excellent small bookstore. Specializing in maps, guidebooks & everything outdoors in the White Mountains (and greater New England too). The guy behind the counter is frequently owner Steve Smith who has authored many books on hiking in NH and co-edited the last two editions of the AMC White Mountain Guide. His personal knowledge of hiking in the White Mountains is arguably second to none.

sharky
05-29-2009, 06:41
Whats the safest trail to get down to Pinkham from Twin Valley tentsite?

celt
05-29-2009, 20:15
Whats the safest trail to get down to Pinkham from the Valley Way tentsite?

Safest? Probably hiking down the Valley Way to Appalachia Trail-head and then the AMC shuttle to Pinkham.

But seriously, returning to Madison Hut via Valley Way and following the A.T. (Osgood Trail, Osgood Cutoff, Madison Gulf Trail [lower] & Old Jackson Road) is probably the easiest hiking route to Pinkham. Other routes may look more direct on a map (Madison Gulf Tr. [upper]) or look easier because they avoid climbing Madison (Parapet Tr.) but these trails cross more rugged terrain offer no time advantages.

Do you have a map of the Presidential Range?

Tin Man
05-29-2009, 20:23
Safest? Probably hiking down the Valley Way to Appalachia Trail-head and then the AMC shuttle to Pinkham.

But seriously, returning to Madison Hut via Valley Way and following the A.T. (Osgood Trail, Osgood Cutoff, Madison Gulf Trail [lower] & Old Jackson Road) is probably the easiest hiking route to Pinkham. Other routes may look more direct on a map (Madison Gulf Tr. [upper]) or look easier because they avoid climbing Madison (Parapet Tr.) but these trails cross more rugged terrain offer no time advantages.

Do you have a map of the Presidential Range?

Celt, How does the Madison Gulf Tr upper compare with the the Osgood Trail. We took the MGT last year, thinking we would save daylight, but wow, that trail was more like descending a vertical cliff.

celt
05-29-2009, 21:10
Celt, How does the Madison Gulf Tr upper compare with the the Osgood Trail. We took the MGT last year, thinking we would save daylight, but wow, that trail was more like descending a vertical cliff.

Osgood seems to go down-down-down (or up-up-up) without end (nearly 3000' vertical from Mt. Madison to the Osgood Tentsite) but it doesn't have the ultra steep "head wall" like MGT. Its occasionally noted by north bound thru-hikers as a particularly tough descent because of it long, consistent descent particularly with a large pack. Osgood's consistent grade is what makes it the "easiest" trail from the Great Gulf to the ridge of the Northern Prezies. The other trails from the Great Gulf are all noted for being steep, rough, wild and beautiful. The Great Gulf is one of most spectacular places to hike in NH.


I thought you might be intersted in the first sentence of the AMC's White Mountain Guide's description of the Madison Gulf Tr. (maybe you're already familar with it):

"Caution: The section of this trail on the headwall of Madison Gulf is one of the most difficult in the White Mountains, going over several ledge outcrops, bouldery areas, and a chimney with loose rock."

Tin Man
05-29-2009, 21:17
Osgood seems to go down-down-down (or up-up-up) without end (nearly 3000' vertical from Mt. Madison to the Osgood Tentsite) but it doesn't have the ultra steep "head wall" like MGT. Its occasionally noted by north bound thru-hikers as a particularly tough descent because of it long, consistent descent particularly with a large pack. Osgood's consistent grade is what makes it the "easiest" trail from the Great Gulf to the ridge of the Northern Prezies. The other trails from the Great Gulf are all noted for being steep, rough, wild and beautiful. The Great Gulf is one of most spectacular places to hike in NH.


I thought you might be intersted in the first sentence of the AMC's White Mountain Guide's description of the Madison Gulf Tr. (maybe you're already familar with it):

"Caution: The section of this trail on the headwall of Madison Gulf is one of the most difficult in the White Mountains, going over several ledge outcrops, bouldery areas, and a chimney with loose rock."

Wish we had the guide with us. Last minute decisions based on looking at a map and thinking the profile lines couldn't be that bad ... well, turned out to be interesting to say the least. The next morning we ran into a guy who told us the MGT was his favorite trail in the Whites. Ah, right...once was enough for me.

sharky
05-29-2009, 22:50
I have a great map thanks to pokey. Is there a way to avoid the MGT altogether? I looked at Old Jackson Road and thought it looked tame enough. What I'm really hoping for is that when we stop by Lake of The Clouds and offer to do a few hours worth of work in exchange for a stay that we get lucky, but I'm not counting on it.

Tin Man
05-29-2009, 23:42
I have a great map thanks to pokey. Is there a way to avoid the MGT altogether? I looked at Old Jackson Road and thought it looked tame enough. What I'm really hoping for is that when we stop by Lake of The Clouds and offer to do a few hours worth of work in exchange for a stay that we get lucky, but I'm not counting on it.

Just take the Osgood Trail to the lower MGT and you will be fine. The lower trail is very easy - it's the upper MGT that would make an extreme skier happy.

celt
05-30-2009, 01:32
What I'm really hoping for is that when we stop by Lake of The Clouds and offer to do a few hours worth of work in exchange for a stay that we get lucky, but I'm not counting on it.

Do you know the work-for-stay is for thru hikers? Usually, Lakes in particular is strict about this policy because of the high demand at the popular hut.

And I'll second Tin Man and say don't worry about the lower portion of the MGT, its well below the difficult section.

sharky
05-30-2009, 08:10
I'm well aware that the work-for-stay is for thru hikers but since most of them will be gone through that area by mid september, I feel like its worth stopping in to ask.

celt
05-30-2009, 10:33
I'm well aware that the work-for-stay is for thru hikers but since most of them will be gone through that area by mid september, I feel like its worth stopping in to ask.

That might be the best week to ask. The croo will be closing up the hut on September 12th and there might be more work than usual.

sharky
05-30-2009, 12:20
Ah crap I'm scheduled to get there on the 13th or 14th I think.

sharky
06-04-2009, 06:33
What is the Great Gulf Trail like? I also entertained the thought of staying the last night at the Hermit Lake Shelter since its just off Tuckerman Ravine Trail.