View Full Version : Connecticut and campfires
grizzly mattams
05-19-2009, 23:17
I know the rules state no campfires in any CT camp sites on the AT but does that really hold up? Haven't done any overnight yet in CT AT but wondered if hikers still made campfires when appropriate conditions are present.
I passed thru Caesar Brook Campsite recently and saw a pretty substantial rock fire pit that looked like it had been used often and recently but that the only place I recall a fire pit.
You will find that at all or most CT sites. I did not nor have I seen anyone making the fires but obviously it happens.
I passed thru Caesar Brook Campsite recently and saw a pretty substantial rock fire pit that looked like it had been used often and recently but that the only place I recall a fire pit.
The ridgerunners will dismantle it as soon as they find it.
No fires are allowed on the AT in Connecticut.
If you absolutely must have a fire, please consider hiking somewhere where they're legal.
grizzly mattams
05-20-2009, 09:02
I don't have a need for a fire just was just curious. Headlamp and a gas stove is all I need. Also not a fan of collecting fire wood after 10 mile hike.
They usally have a fire ban in Colorado and it does kinda suck. Because that is the time to sit around and talk bull with your buddies after a long day of hitting the trail. G-Man has this lantern that screws on to a fuel canister that we all sit around. Its actually pretty cool little lantern. Weighs about 6 ounces.
When I did CT I wanted so bad to have a fire but followed the rules and didn't, same with NJ.
When I did CT I wanted so bad to have a fire but followed the rules and didn't, same with NJ.
Good job! Throw that dog a bone.
Its just sometime to dangerous to have a fire. Plus there are some idiots who think they have to build a fire that the space shuttle can see.
wild dogs
05-26-2009, 17:18
I maintain a section of trail in Salisbury Ct. The AT is clearly marked "No Fires Only Stoves". Several of the shelters have posted inside why no fires are allowed in Connecticut. I am not going to list all of them here. The section of trail that goes thru the northwestern part of the state gets used by by a lot of hikers and campers. The Connecticut AMC chapter - which I belong - makes every effort to keep the area as natural looking as possible so everyone can enjoy it for years to come. Campfires typically make camping areas look over used and trashy. I have not seen the remains of a camp fire that did not contain trash. The area surrounding the fire ring generally contains litter. From what I understand the primary reason for no fires is the concern that a forest fire could be started.
The times that I caught people making a fire , I told them that fires were not allowed. They generally give a dumb look. I think to myself that the turons can't read , just don't care or have no clue what leave no trace means. There were a few times when when I have been short with fire makers - sorry - sometimes it's hard to be nice after doing hard trail work then finding people leaving a mess for me to clean up like their personal janitor. When a maintainer finds evidence of a campfire the following is suggested to discourage more campfires and keep the area natural looking: Remove burnt rocks and place them charred side down in the woods. Better to put in water where they cannot be seen , Remove all burned and un-burned trash from coals. Pack out and dispose of properly ,
bury cold coals or put in stream in not too visable location. Yes a lot of work.
...bury cold coals or put in stream in not too visable location.
Thank you for all you do especially your efforts to educate people as to the rationale for prohibiting fires.
I've got to ask one question though. Just who's recommending disposing of and concealing coals in streams?
Lemni Skate
05-26-2009, 17:41
First of all...I enjoy campfires...I like sitting around and talking trail.
Second of all...I never make them when backpacking...I hate gathering wood and pretty much can't start one without a flame thrower and a 5 gallon can of gasoline.
Third of all...I really wouldn't put the coals in a stream.
Fourth of all...Obey the rules, people. CT doesn't have the hundreds of thousands of square miles of back country that some states have. We need to preserve it, and if that's what needs to be done then I'm all for it.
Pedaling Fool
05-26-2009, 17:46
...Campfires typically make camping areas look over used and trashy. I have not seen the remains of a camp fire that did not contain trash. The area surrounding the fire ring generally contains litter. From what I understand the primary reason for no fires is the concern that a forest fire could be started...
One could say the same thing about shelters; I've never seen a shelter that did not contain trash, not to mention the rodents it attracts.
As for the fire prevention angle, is this a statewide ban of campers building fires, or just a statewide ban on the AT thru Connecticut?
Pedaling Fool
05-26-2009, 17:49
...Fourth of all...Obey the rules, people. CT doesn't have the hundreds of thousands of square miles of back country that some states have. We need to preserve it, and if that's what needs to be done then I'm all for it.
What does that have to do with a fire ban in Ct? DID YOU KNOW fires are made with dead trees. Maybe that's why you have a problem starting a fire.:D
I hope the post above related to shelters is intended to encourage people to pick up after themselves.
Shelters don't attract rodents. Food smells, scraps and crumbs left behind by hikers draw them. Anyone who hikes off-season knows it's so. When the hikers are gone, they quickly move on to where they can find food to eat.
Can someone post the exact language of the rule or a readable image of the sign mentioned? A link to the land management agency's website where this rule is published would be a handy thing to have now and for future reference.
The Snowman
05-26-2009, 18:22
fire ban is state wide in Conn. the law was however modified to allow campfires at devoloped campgrounds both public and private. the AT does not fall under the exception
Alaskanhkr23
05-26-2009, 18:23
Ct is nice and all but no campfires? thats stupid.Me and my friends have campfires all the time noone bothers us
An AMC member who undermines the efforts of AMC-Connecticut Chapter is just what WhiteBlaze needs.:( It's bad enough you disregard the prohibition, but you want to post telling everyone about it too!
What do you think the effect of your actions will be imagining for a moment we have a significant number of people following this thread? The potential audience is everyone in the world!
Alaskanhkr23
05-26-2009, 22:43
Me and my buddies have permits to have a fire pit in his back yard
Alaskanhkr23
05-26-2009, 22:45
When it come's to non-permited on the trails NO i do not Make or condone Fire's or Fire pits i will take them apart,But like i said Me and my Buddies have Permits to BUrn for our Yards Due to our Towns Fire Dept.Thank you-
I know the rules state no campfires in any CT camp sites on the AT but does that really hold up? Haven't done any overnight yet in CT AT but wondered if hikers still made campfires when appropriate conditions are present.
I passed thru Caesar Brook Campsite recently and saw a pretty substantial rock fire pit that looked like it had been used often and recently but that the only place I recall a fire pit.
Yeah, I've seen it too. Idiots break rules because they're too selfish to see far enough ahead to realize that they'll ruin the experience for others.
Ct is nice and all but no campfires? thats stupid.Me and my friends have campfires all the time noone bothers us
That's only because you haven't been caught.....yet.
Btw: It's my friends and I -
My friends have campfires,
I have campfires.
Me doesn't have campfires.
English isn't really that difficult.;)
Alaskanhkr23
05-27-2009, 10:23
tinker english is difficult for me you should know that
Alaskanhkr23
05-27-2009, 10:24
AND tinker read my other post,because then you will know ,I DO NOT LIGHT FIRES ON PROHIBITED AREAS,WHAT IS WITH SOME OF YOU PEOPLE
Alaskanhkr23
05-27-2009, 10:25
Tinker your just mad because your hammock fell down LOL J/K
Tankerhoosen
06-29-2009, 13:41
Actually you dont need a permit for a small fire pit, as long as it is contained either by a rock ring or one fo those metal ones you can buy. (this is not on the AT of course)
Property owners with an open burning permit might want to refer to the link below before kindling a fire.
http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2222&q=320740&depNav_GID=1631
Soon Man
07-09-2010, 19:10
fire ban is state wide in Conn. the law was however modified to allow campfires at devoloped campgrounds both public and private. the AT does not fall under the exception
This is true. Car camped a month ago at Macedonia Brook State Park near Kent, CT and about 3-5 miles from AT. My son and I had fires in the fire ring both nights.
SonrisaJo
07-09-2010, 19:46
It really seemed like the endless NO CAMPFIRES signs in Connecticut provoked the firebuilding spirit in the southbounders last year. I saw more fires in CT than the rest of ME-WV combined. I am not condoning it, but I swear the signs are what inspired them.
No, the spark came from somewhere between the ears of those who built the alleged fires and was fueled by a childish contempt for authority.
Ironbelly
07-09-2010, 20:32
Not trying to incite any kind of riot or hate here but... Other than the signs posted on the AT itself that say no fires, where is this in the written law? because this is a cut and paste from the law, I just looked it up.
---------Backpackers are requested to use backpacking stoves for cooking. If open fires must be used, please build only in established fire rings and be sure fires are fully extinguished before leaving campsites.---------
It says "established" fire ring. Now I am no lawyer, but the way I interpret that is that if I go to shelter X and a fire ring is already there then I can build a fire to cook on. I however could not assemble a fire ring if one was not already present. Then it only says please, and not shall not, or only etc.
Is there another location that this is written other than some random website? i.e. from an official source goverment, dep, etc.
Ironbelly
07-09-2010, 20:46
I just searched all of the CT general statutes, environmental regulations and acts for : fire, camp fire, campfire, open fire, open burning, wood stoves, bonfire, backpacking, hiking, camping and combinations of those.
The only thing that showed up was about having fires in landfills and what was allowed to be burned and what wasn't
A question for this debate; are woodburning stoves permited on the AT in CT simular to the "paint can" type?
Ironbelly
07-09-2010, 21:37
I use a small coffee can style wood gas stove on the AT in CT, along with many of the other trails in CT. No where in the letter of the law do I see them banned. And they are much better for the environment than other petro based stoves.
The ridgerunners will dismantle it as soon as they find it.
No fires are allowed on the AT in Connecticut.
If you absolutely must have a fire, please consider hiking somewhere where they're legal.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4SE1AEd2NqM
Ironbelly
07-10-2010, 07:18
JAK, I obviously know that was already posted because I read them all. Back to the question at hand. Other than the posts in this forum and the random signs of the trail. Where is this LEGALY written. A post here is not a legaly binding document nor is a sign on the trail. Is this in a state statute somewhere etc?
I don't build fires on the AT, so put away the pitch forks! I am just curious, because I have done quite a bit of searching and I can't find anything anywhere that is a legal document/official source. And no offense to the AMC and ridgerunners but your signs arn't legal documents. So is it a courtesy that there are no fires allowed? Or is it actually law?
To understand more about local A.T. management plans and how policy (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/site/c.mqLTIYOwGlF/b.4805659/k.DD0E/Policies.htm) is formulated, click on the link to visit ATC's website where there is more information than most people would care to read. Reading the first few paragraphs should dispel the notion formulating a plan is an arbitrary process based upon the whims of A.T. maintaining club board members.
Connecticut regulates open burning in a number of ways and specifies how this is to be accomplished in its general statutes (http://www.ct.gov/dep/cwp/view.asp?a=2684&Q=321772&depNav_GID=1619). Many of the policies related to open burning are at the discretion of local officials and the more important no doubt are written down and adopted as ordinances.
Not all of the policies which apply to A.T. visitors are enforceable laws, regulations, rules or ordinances.
The continued existence of the A.T. depends heavily upon its users respecting adopted policies whether codified or not since resources for enforcement are limited.
The concept of a carrying capacity does apply to the A.T. and fire rings are one of the most obvious and objectionable traces left behind. Eliminating or at least reducing them is no doubt one of several reasons campfires are limited to designated campsites in some other locations.
Many areas along the A.T. are not readily accessible to firefighters and it may be best to encourage those who wish to kindle campfires to use public or private campgrounds. Even where campfires are permitted elsewhere on the A.T., it is sometimes impossible for hikers to determine when local fire officials have declared a burning prohibition.
To conserve the A.T., it is necessary to encourage its use. People who do not experience it directly are not apt to value it or seek to perpetuate it. It can be many things to many people, but it cannot be all things to everyone and local residents upon which the A.T. depends for support do not all think alike, but their wishes should be respected even when we do not agree with them.
Ironbelly
07-12-2010, 06:54
Thank you for your responce Emerald.
CT does not have a general burning prohibition contrary to popular belief. The only law and state statue governing burning is regarding landfill burning, landowner brush burning, and debris bonfires.
The statue also states that a permit must be obtained from the local fire marshall for any fire large than a 3ft radius.
I however did find the answer I was looking for on the link you posted. And of course it wont let me post it. Basically the ATC documents state that each chapter/club should determine their own polices regarding camp fires, and whether they will establish a ban on all campfires, campfires only in designated areas, bans only during high fire risk etc. And said that these should be based on the effort of a fire fighting detachment being able to reach the area for fire fighting needs if there was a fire.
So, that makes sense. It would be quite hard for a fire department to access the areas in CT, and probally anywhere on the AT for that matter.
So bottom line is that it is indeed not a law/regulation from a legal stand point. But is a policy set in effect by the ATC individual chapters, and should be followed for the safety of the trail. Trying to keep honest people honest in hoping they will follow the posted policy. But sadly nothing can be done if they do not.
Information, education and respect for others can often accomplish what the long arm of the law and its enforcement cannot.
When I did CT I wanted so bad to have a fire but followed the rules and didn't, same with NJ.
It's interesting that NY is sandwiched between CT and NJ AND NY allows fires. It is also interesting that I have found many fire pits in NJ and I saw no trash or issue with them. It would seem CT cleans up quickly after a fire ring is created. I really don't see what the problem is with fire rings, but whatever, CT and NJ are relatively shorter hikes.
Thank you for all you do especially your efforts to educate people as to the rationale for prohibiting fires.
I've got to ask one question though. Just who's recommending disposing of and concealing coals in streams?
Actually, rafting companies in Alaska will build a large cooking fire on a sheet of steel and dump it in the river claiming it is the mostly environmentally friendly way of disposing the ashes AND they are required to as part of their permits to use the rivers.