View Full Version : Dehydration
A few days ago I set off from the Delaware Water Gap heading north with the plan to just keep on walking... maybe until I got to Katahdyn. Anyway, by the end of the first day I was cramping in my legs as I climbed hills and could feel the effects of dehydration, that day I drank 3L of water and 1L of gatorade. The next day, in total, I drank 4-4.5L of water and .5L of gatorade. I urinated only twice that day and it was almost brown. I woke up the next morning, drank another liter and walked a few miles before calling to get picked up.
I'm thinking 4.5-5L of fluid is quite adequate. Any ideas?
nuun
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Alaskanhkr23
05-26-2009, 15:41
I'm sorry,but that doesen't sound like dehydration.4 4.5l's ? What was the temp,I was in vermont and it was hot and muggy , And i only drank 3 liters each day.
Alaskanhkr23
05-26-2009, 15:44
That sounds like your body wasn't processing any liguids or if it was just not fast enouph,when you got home did you urinate alot more? I know sometimes ill hike and drink alot of water only piss once or twice then a day later go every couple hours or so.tricky stuff
Balancing fluid intake verses need can be tricky, but it sounds like you may have had something going on. Were you sweating very heavily? That can allow much more fluid loss than people think. During my bicycle racing days here in humid Florida it was easy for me to sweat out an honest 2 liters an hour in the summer. A couple years ago, during the 6 Gap century in north Georgia I drank over 10 liters in 5 hours and still didn't pee for 3-4 hours after the event.
Hiking in rugged terrain when it's hot I will sweat just about as much if I am pushing it. Having said all of that, if your pee was dark brown and not getting any lighter after an evening of rest and rehydration you did the right thing by stopping the activity.
If it was brown, i would think that was poop.......
That was a joke... Sort of. But it sounds like you were sick (had an infection or virus) that was making you not process your liquids correctly.
Have you seen a doctor about this?
Jack Tarlin
05-26-2009, 16:29
In warm weather, you should be drinking 6-8 liters a day, not 4 or 5.
If your piss was dark brown, it's a clear indication that you weren't drinking enough, so the simple answer to your question is no, what you were drinking was NOT adequate.
Most hiker "fatigue" (i.e. chronic tiredness, aches, pains, etc.) is as much a product of continual dehydration as it is anything else.
The remedy is simple: Drink more, and the best thing to drink is plain water.
Drink more fluids (Gatorade diluted to 50% for me) and take Endurolytes (electrolyte replacement).
Blissful
05-26-2009, 18:36
With any long term hike, best to get cleared by the MD too before you begin. Get a complete physical. Can't hurt and might help.
Snowleopard
05-26-2009, 19:10
Ask a doctor what this means.
World-Wide
05-27-2009, 04:00
A few days ago I set off from the Delaware Water Gap heading north with the plan to just keep on walking... maybe until I got to Katahdyn. Anyway, by the end of the first day I was cramping in my legs as I climbed hills and could feel the effects of dehydration, that day I drank 3L of water and 1L of gatorade. The next day, in total, I drank 4-4.5L of water and .5L of gatorade. I urinated only twice that day and it was almost brown. I woke up the next morning, drank another liter and walked a few miles before calling to get picked up.
I'm thinking 4.5-5L of fluid is quite adequate. Any ideas?
If it wasn't dehydration, I hope you found out the cause. Whether I'm doing field exercises, 3-5 hot-day hikes here in Okinawa or just walking along the sea-wall on a humid day, I'm what would you'd call a "sweater!" When I know I'm heading out for a strenuous period of time (military exercise or hiking) I kick up my sodium intake (use table salt when I normally don't) and increase my potassium intake by preferably eating bananas, but not shy on taking potassium caps. Your concern focuses around the hot weather, since I sweat pretty good, I'm worried about sweating in cold weather and preventing hypothermia!! :(
6-8 litres a day? Seriously? :rolleyes:
To the OP, did you drink the water too fast, instead of spreading it out.
Can You Really Drink Too Much Water?
In a word, yes. Drinking too much water can lead to a condition known as water intoxication and to a related problem resulting from the dilution of sodium in the body, hyponatremia. Water intoxication is most commonly seen in infants under six months of age and sometimes in athletes. A baby can get water intoxication as a result of drinking several bottles of water a day or from drinking infant formula that has been diluted too much. Athletes can also suffer from water intoxication. Athletes sweat heavily, losing both water and electrolytes. Water intoxication and hyponatremia result when a dehydrated person drinks too much water without the accompanying electrolytes.
You are unlikely to suffer from water intoxication, even if you drink a lot of water, as long as you drink over time as opposed to intaking an enormous volume at one time. As a general guideline, most adults need about three quarts of fluid each day. Much of that water comes from food, so 8-12 eight ounce glasses a day is a common recommended intake.
http://chemistry.about.com/cs/5/f/blwaterintox.htm
Just one possible idea about what's going on.
fiddlehead
05-27-2009, 05:32
It's pretty simple really: Pee clear twice a day!
I have been dehydrated in races and it sucks and there's not much more you can do that day except drink drink drink and sleep.
magnesium pills, potassium and coconut water can help to but you're not going to get better in a few hours once dehydrated
I've had the same thing happen hiking in hot +90* temps. Endurolytes help me to feel better
How big a person are you? When I was hiking the JMT with a group of nurses, we discussed hydration a lot. We had been advised by a park ranger to consume six liters of water a day. That was just about right for me (female, 6', 175 lbs), but was way too much for Babysteps (female, 5', 110 lbs, or thereabouts). Extrapolating, I would guess that if you're over 175 lbs., you might need more than six liters.
How much were you sweating? As others have pointed out, you can easily double the amount of fluid you're losing if you're a heavy sweater. If your mouth is lacking spit, your fluid level is already down 5-10%.
How much had you had to drink BEFORE you started hiking? Because of the traveling involved in getting to a trailhead, it's easy to start a hike dehydrated. Again, as others have said, once you're dehydrated, it's hard to catch back up. Various members of my family have gotten so dehydrated that they've been given IVs, and are usually through their second liter of saline before they start feeling the need to pee. My point being, you can walk around feeling pretty close to okay even when you're way down on fluid.
A rule of thumb is that you should be peeing every couple of hours. If you're not, you're not drinking enough.
If you're dehydrated, muscle cramps are brutal. The few times I've had problems finding water sources, and have had to ration, I end up with calf soreness that persists for a number of days after the hike. Not fun.
If you've got the time and money to continue your hike, you might want to check in with a doctor, recover from your muscle cramps, and start off again. I use Cytomax powder in one of two liters of water a day; the rest is either plain water or tea without sugar.
Good luck!
Lemni Skate
05-27-2009, 06:57
Every body is different. I drink 8 L when backpacking all day...easy (especially when it's hot). I chug and chug and chug when I get to a spring and probably have 2 L put away within 2 hours of that and always carry 4. I rarely pass up a spring without filling up my tummy and my bottles.
About four or 5 years ago I collapsed on the trail in SNP on July 4. I was out for a day hike by several waterfalls and after I finished my water I knew I was in trouble. This was one of my first hikes and I had let people scare me so much about drinking untreated water that I walked along a stream and crossed tiny creeks emptying into the stream and never got a drink. I must have drank 15 Liters within an hour or two of getting off the trail (I did manage to get off under my own power by forcing myself to take 100 steps at a time).
I almost died from dehydration worrying about the POSSIBILITY of a water born illness.
If you're seriously dehydrated, drink ANYTHING you can and then worry about the intestinal distress when you're safely off the trail.
JokerJersey
05-27-2009, 07:42
I was clearing about 7-8 L of water a day plus 1 L of Gatorade on this last trip. Temps were around 80-85 degrees here in NJ, but I sweat hard.
Another question...did you drink alcohol the night before you left? Alcohol can really do a number on you in terms of hydration. Most "hangover" effects can readily be taken care of with a large glass of water before bed and another one when you wake up.
http://www.beverageinstitute.org/hydration/hydration_calculator.shtml
That's a neat little tool (not sure how accurate), that attempts to calculate how much you should be drinking a day. Only flaw I've found with it is that you can only set your activity to a max of 60 mins. They even have a caveat at the bottom that says if you are engaging in long sessions of exercise your intake level will vary dramatically.
Regardless, the number you get for a male, 21 years of age, weighing 175 lbs do only ONE hour of moderate hiking in 80 degree weather is 4.7L total hydration. They also take into account that you get 20% of your hydration needs from your food, so that means you need to actually drink 4L of water. Check it out if you want, just remember, you can only calculate up to an hour of hiking at a time.
Here's another page that can help you figure out your sweat rate, which is more accurate than relying on the calculator. It actually requires a bit of work on your part though, so be warned...there is no easy answer here.
http://www.beverageinstitute.org/hydration/Sweat_Rate.pdf
I think it depends on many factors, like how much you are carrying and how much work you body is doing, how much additional fluids are lost by sweating, how much food you are eating, and how much sodium you are consuming. If you run low on sodium your body will try and pee more, in order to maintain the balance. The converse of that is that if you consume too much sodium your body will pee less, but what it does pee and sweat will be saltier. At least I think that's how it works.
Anyhow, I just listen to my body. Remember you are doing something humans have done for tens of thousands of years. Have we been adding salt to our diet all that time? Probably yeah, but we really don't need all that much. Have we been luggin around 6-8 pounds of water everywhere we go? Usually not. Try and figure out and understand the science but listen to you body and keep it simple. Salt intake should be low if you are not sweating much and perhaps moderate if you are sweating more. Fluid intake varies. Drink when thirsty, or if in doubt. Store bought jerky and straight up Gatoraide probably has way too much sodium for most hiking. Homemade jerky you can add just the right amount for what you need, and use the jerky as you source of sodium when you need it. Or you could do the same with some sports drink, diluted down, or just drink that when needed and drink plain water most of the time.
I think the "Beverage Institute" tends to promote too much salt and too much fluid. Better to do your own independant research and make your own sports drinks or use homemade jerky as your source of sodium to match you hiking needs for your activity and climate.
JokerJersey
05-27-2009, 08:14
I think the "Beverage Institute" tends to promote too much salt and too much fluid. Better to do your own independant research and make your own sports drinks or use homemade jerky as your source of sodium to match you hiking needs for your activity and climate.
Yeah I agree, but it's just one of many places you can go for information. If nothing else, I hope it gives the OP a "jumping off" point to do a little more research into it on his own. The information is out there and you should never take one person's opinion as gospel.
I agree. I read there stuff and it is very good for the most part, but you have to take it with a grain of salt. ;)
That chart that is only valid for up to an hour of activity is rather suspect. It almost seems like they know its excessive, but for up to an hour it doesn't cause much harm. The problem is of course that they are part of the food and beverage industry, which is a HUGE industry not just because people need to eat and drink, but because people are naturally compelled to eat and drink excessively, particularly when it comes to salt and sugar.
In the natural environment, salt and sugar are limited, so our bodies naturally crave them. When they are made available in abundance, we have to be careful to limit our intake. We have to be especially careful to limit our intake when the "Beverage Institute" mixes academic research with consumer marketing in a strange brew to compell us to do otherwise. :)
A few days ago I set off from the Delaware Water Gap heading north with the plan to just keep on walking... maybe until I got to Katahdyn. Anyway, by the end of the first day I was cramping in my legs as I climbed hills and could feel the effects of dehydration, that day I drank 3L of water and 1L of gatorade. The next day, in total, I drank 4-4.5L of water and .5L of gatorade. I urinated only twice that day and it was almost brown. I woke up the next morning, drank another liter and walked a few miles before calling to get picked up.
I'm thinking 4.5-5L of fluid is quite adequate. Any ideas?Back to the OP. I think this seems like a moderate amount of fluid and salt intake, but it also depends on how much you might have been sweating, and how much and what sort of foods you might have been eating. Sometimes cramping is just muscle fatigue and glycogen depletion. Were you eating enough? Was there too much sodium in your other food, or none at all?
On the past weekend I did a long hike, like 40km mostly rugged over a 36 hour period after a 80km bike ride. After the bike ride I refueled with ice cream and buttermilk and skim milk. On the hike I ate little, but it included a litre of skim milk I bought after the ride which I consumed in the first 12 hours, then about 1.5 cups of dry 12 grain cereal, 0.5 cups of dry lentil soup mix, and I had 250ml which I saved to the end and only had about 50ml. I think I drank a total of about 5-6 litres of fluid with the food, but it wasn't that hot and I wasn't sweating much. Other than the dairy sources I don't think there was much sodium in the diet. The second night I was up to stay warm and wait the low tide and I started cramping some. I was actually peeing quite a bit I thought and I actually tasted it and it wasn't salty. Tasteless like warm water, but I've never really tasted pee before, though you can often just smell the salt in it even from a distance, or it often feels salty on the hands especially if you have a cut. Anyhow I thought I might be low on sodium, so I grabbed a 1/2 cup of water from the Bay of Fundy and mixed that with a litre of fresh water I had ready for when I woke up and I made plain honey tea with about 50ml of honey. That felt just fine and was all the fuel and fluid I needed for the 9km hike along the beach back to Big Salmon River, and about 3km more on the Fundy Trail Parkway while waiting for my wife. You gotta be careful, but it is amazing what little food and fluid you actually need when you are travelling light and your fat burning enzymes and working as they should. I think I burned about a pound of fat or so, maybe 1.5, looking back a few days now after all the smoke has cleared. I weight myself each day, but of course it fluctuates daily.
Hope that helps some. Probably not. Think is there are so many variables.
Best to be prepared to dehydration and salt depletion and glycogen depletion, but you don't have to over do the preventative action. Just listen to your body. Don't wait until you are dieing of thirst or cramping up like a yogic flier, just have some salty food or drink handy if you need it, and drink an extra litre of water now and then if in doubt. But personally I think this 500ml or 1 litre per water stuff is nonsense for hiking. Drink when thirsty, plus maybe twice a day drink an extra litre just to be sure. That's all I do.
Alligator
05-27-2009, 09:43
I drink 6-8 liters on hot days. One at breakfast, 4-5 while hiking, 1-2 in camp.
Side note on this topic, be aware that eating Clif bars and other power bar types will color your urine yellow. If you are absolutely sure you've drank enough it could be yellow from the vitamins.
JokerJersey
05-27-2009, 13:10
I drink 6-8 liters on hot days. One at breakfast, 4-5 while hiking, 1-2 in camp.
Side note on this topic, be aware that eating Clif bars and other power bar types will color your urine yellow. If you are absolutely sure you've drank enough it could be yellow from the vitamins.
If I remember correctly, it's the B vitamins that do that. More specifically, it's riboflavin (Vit. B2) that causes a bright yellow hue in urine.
Interesting.
I learned the other day that the iron from our old blood cells is what makes our poop black.... or maybe it was bilirubin???
I thought it was Bilirubin that had iron in it, but maybe not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilirubin
Hey, it might also be bilirubin that makes our pee yellow...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilirubin
"Normally, a tiny amount of bilirubin is excreted in the urine, accounting for the light yellow color."
I've definitely had darker yellow urine when talking multi-vitamins though.
I thought it was the binder matterial, but perhaps it was the B vitamins.
Probably alot of different sources for colour in urine.
Short Term
05-27-2009, 13:51
I dehydrated on the approach trail one hot July day a few years ago and swear I will never do that again. My signs were bright yellow pee, and I had stopped sweating - I knew I was in trouble. We made it to Springer Shelter and once I stopped moving the full body cramps started..and I mean full body, I could barely move without cramping, my face even cramped up. I thought I was dying, a Dr friend of mine told me I was lucky to be alive. Gatorade and water finally slowed the cramping. Now I drink 6 - 8 liters a day (regardless of the temp.), usually Nuun or some other electrolyte replacement drink, and then sleep with my hydration pack full of water next to me so I can drink during the night when I wake up. And a few days before a trip, I begin increasing my daily fluid intake...it works for me. No more cramps....or yellow pee!
Dehydration is a migraine trigger for me. That is enough to motivate me to stay hydrated.
daddytwosticks
05-27-2009, 15:14
JAK...did I read that correctly? You tasted your own pee?
JokerJersey
05-27-2009, 15:29
Nothing really wrong with that. It's sterile and is often recommended by survival experts to recycle your own urine in survival situations to stave off death by dehydration (though it is only a short term fix since eventually your own urine will become toxic as less and less water is filtered through with more and more impurities). Heck, some cultures looked upon it as a medicinal treatment. In fact, some still do.
Neat little bit about it here...
http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=5344349d-8fbc-446e-8ae5-03a924025f8c&chunkiid=161688
take-a-knee
05-27-2009, 16:03
Nothing really wrong with that. It's sterile and is often recommended by survival experts to recycle your own urine in survival situations to stave off death by dehydration (though it is only a short term fix since eventually your own urine will become toxic as less and less water is filtered through with more and more impurities). Heck, some cultures looked upon it as a medicinal treatment. In fact, some still do.
Neat little bit about it here...
http://healthlibrary.epnet.com/GetContent.aspx?token=5344349d-8fbc-446e-8ae5-03a924025f8c&chunkiid=161688
You cannot relieve dehydration by drinking urine, urine is a hypertonic solution, as such, it will increase dehydration. You can urinate into a vessel and add it to a solar still, this will remove the salts.
JokerJersey
05-27-2009, 21:41
You cannot relieve dehydration by drinking urine, urine is a hypertonic solution, as such, it will increase dehydration. You can urinate into a vessel and add it to a solar still, this will remove the salts.
You sorta need materials to make a solar still though, right? No knife, no plastic, no container...no solar still. I'm talking last ditch effort kind of thing here, not "Oh, I haven't had any water in the last two hours, I think I should drink my pee.". I agree that adding any kind of liquid to a solar still is the best pratice to follow, but you still need to know how to build one and have the materials on hand to do so. The kind of situation where I'd even think about doing it was one where 1 more day might mean the difference between finding water or dying. If you do it longer than that, you're screwed anyway, so what have you got to lose? Renal failure due to high toxin levels leading to death or renal failure due to lack of water intake.
Most literature will tell you that a healthy persons urine is 95% water and 5% waste products like nitrogen, potassium, and calcium. The Marine Corps told us not to do it, while noted survivalists have said its a last ditch attempt to stay alive and will work for 24-36 hours at most.
Personally, I'd recommend a couple of other things first, like collecting dew or locating water rich plants or mosses, before I'd attempt to drink my own urine.
Supplying some more information: I'm 5' 11'' 160lbs. was carrying a 31lb. pack. I was drinking about every 45 minutes or hour with anywhere from .25L to 1.5L in a "sitting", obviously bigger portions with food or at potable water sources. And although I did have a few clif-bar-like snacks I definitely had some of the symptoms of dehydration...no full body cramps though thank goodness.
The weather was sunny and about 85 degrees. I had the climb out of Delaware Water Gap but then mostly along ridges, a few climbs up or down here and there. I was only lightly sweating while hiking.
After I got back I steadily drank water for an hour or two and a few hours after that my urine began clearing up, still yellow, but not dark like while on the trail.
JAK...did I read that correctly? You tasted your own pee?You're the only one that picked up on that eh. lol
I was curious if I was low on salt. Turns out I was. Lived to tell the tale. :banana
For salt I grabbed a 1/2 cup of seawater from the Bay and added it to a litre of fresh water I had heated up and 50ml of honey. I couldn't remember how much salt that was, but 1/2 cup seemed right. Turns out about 1000mg of sodium per 0.1 litres of seawater, in most places, so about 1/2 cup is about right for a one day treatment. I've heard you shouldn't drink it straight but up to 0.1 litres straight every day won't harm you. Better to water it down though. The idea here is to replenish salt, so you can retain water, not to rehydrate. I didn't drink my urine for either purpose, but to figure out if I was low on salt because I seemed to be pissing more than I thought I should be, and cramping a little. Thought it might be low salt. I think it was becase my urine was clear and warm yet tasteless.
I'm guessing if people take too much salt while hiking, as many do, they will need more water. Similarly if they drink too much water, as many do, they might need more salt. I usually get enough from skim milk powder but I could only get fresh skim milk and finished that the night before. So as the rest of my food hadn't much food in it I was curious when I started peeing more than I thought I should and cramping a little. Might have had something to do with some wood sorrel I ate along the way on last 8km before camp, making me pee more, and the cramps were probably just sore muscles. The salt water didn't hurt though, as it was a moderate amount. Best to aim for the middle.
Supplying some more information: I'm 5' 11'' 160lbs. was carrying a 31lb. pack. I was drinking about every 45 minutes or hour with anywhere from .25L to 1.5L in a "sitting", obviously bigger portions with food or at potable water sources. And although I did have a few clif-bar-like snacks I definitely had some of the symptoms of dehydration...no full body cramps though thank goodness.
The weather was sunny and about 85 degrees. I had the climb out of Delaware Water Gap but then mostly along ridges, a few climbs up or down here and there. I was only lightly sweating while hiking.
After I got back I steadily drank water for an hour or two and a few hours after that my urine began clearing up, still yellow, but not dark like while on the trail.
An interesting thing my husband learned in a "training for bike racing" class is that body fat stores a lot of water. The thinner you are, the more prone to dehydration you are, because you don't have much fat tissue to store water.
JokerJersey
05-29-2009, 21:06
For salt I grabbed a 1/2 cup of seawater from the Bay and added it to a litre of fresh water I had heated up and 50ml of honey. I couldn't remember how much salt that was, but 1/2 cup seemed right. Turns out about 1000mg of sodium per 0.1 litres of seawater, in most places, so about 1/2 cup is about right for a one day treatment. I've heard you shouldn't drink it straight but up to 0.1 litres straight every day won't harm you. Better to water it down though. The idea here is to replenish salt, so you can retain water, not to rehydrate. I didn't drink my urine for either purpose, but to figure out if I was low on salt because I seemed to be pissing more than I thought I should be, and cramping a little. Thought it might be low salt. I think it was becase my urine was clear and warm yet tasteless.
I'm guessing if people take too much salt while hiking, as many do, they will need more water. Similarly if they drink too much water, as many do, they might need more salt. I usually get enough from skim milk powder but I could only get fresh skim milk and finished that the night before. So as the rest of my food hadn't much food in it I was curious when I started peeing more than I thought I should and cramping a little. Might have had something to do with some wood sorrel I ate along the way on last 8km before camp, making me pee more, and the cramps were probably just sore muscles. The salt water didn't hurt though, as it was a moderate amount. Best to aim for the middle.
Funny, when we did field ops in the Marines, they used to mix up this stuff called E-water (enhanced water), which was a mix of sodium, water, and some vitamins. Taste was a bit off from regular water and it made you have to pee something fierce (imagine the midnight pee X 30), but I never once wound up dehydrated from it. Makes me wonder what the ratio of water to additives was so I could make up an approximate substitute.
BitBucket
05-29-2009, 21:47
I've always heard that the body loses between 1/2 and 1 qt of water/electrolytes per hour while walking in 90+ temps and 2+ quarts of water/electrolytes per hour while running or hiking up hill...and it can only absorb about 1+ quarts per hour...
At those rates, you're automatically in deficit mode, so you need to make sure you're tanked up well before starting out and make sure you rehydrate well and continuously while running or hiking.
Wise Old Owl
05-29-2009, 21:57
You sorta need materials to make a solar still though, right? No knife, no plastic, no container...no solar still. I'm talking last ditch effort kind of thing here, not "Oh, I haven't had any water in the last two hours, I think I should drink my pee.". I agree that adding any kind of liquid to a solar still is the best pratice to follow, but you still need to know how to build one and have the materials on hand to do so. The kind of situation where I'd even think about doing it was one where 1 more day might mean the difference between finding water or dying. If you do it longer than that, you're screwed anyway, so what have you got to lose? Renal failure due to high toxin levels leading to death or renal failure due to lack of water intake.
Most literature will tell you that a healthy persons urine is 95% water and 5% waste products like nitrogen, potassium, and calcium. The Marine Corps told us not to do it, while noted survivalists have said its a last ditch attempt to stay alive and will work for 24-36 hours at most.
Personally, I'd recommend a couple of other things first, like collecting dew or locating water rich plants or mosses, before I'd attempt to drink my own urine.
You really need to know what you are doing and that is the least recommend by most books that I have read. I would rather squeeze elephant dung for a drink.
Besides drinking water, were you taking in salty snacks?
On a 15 mile hike in warm weather last summer, a woman on the hike was bonking out. She claimed she drank plenty of water and was eating enough.
Lo and behold, what she was eating were a selection of snacks from Whole Paycheck (Whole Foods) that are very healthy..but had no salt.
I suspected she had a mild case of hyponatremia.
I insisted she munch on some salty snacks, rest a bit..and lo and behold again, she felt great.
Here's what I wrote a while back. One backpacking doc gave me the thumbs up on it for what it is worth. I don't know if it applies to your situation..so take it with a grain of salt. ;)
The original thread:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=8528&highlight=hyponatremia
My post:
As always, the usual disclaimer: , I am not a professional medical person in any way, shape, or
form. I have little medical training (EMT-A course many moons ago). My only knowledge comes from reading
and personal experience. Consult a person who really knows what they are talking about (like OB..who **IS**
an MD! :D)
Having said that...
I would think this condition would not affect hikers as much as say runners, cyclists and other endurance
type atheletes who exert a lot of energy in a (relatively) short period of time. Most hiker's have a
diet that consists of eating food that is high in sodium for a good chunk of the day. Their body
probably has a good mix of water and salt to retain said water w/o "flooding" the body. One of my favorite
items to eat on hikes is chips. I crave them. Based on how many of my friends eagerly pass around my cache of
chips, I'd say they do too. :)
In my brief time in the long distance running world I have noticed that I **CRAVE** salt. I am sweating up a
storm. I want pretzels, chips and the oh-so-delcious chicken noodle soup. As with many activities, your
body tells you what it wants. I suspect with all that sweating, I am getting rid off too much salt in my
body. The soup esp. goes down like mana from heaven.
Many people new to long distance running make the mistake of taking in too much water and not enough
food. Have heard stories of people suffering from hyponatremia during events.
In the hiking world, I suspect hyponatremia may affect people doing extensive desert hiking (ala the
PCT) who are drinking too much water and not eating enough (due to heat, it is common for many people to
not feel like eating), and the fringe group of hikers who blur the line between running and hiking. They
are working up a huge sweat and may or may not be eating enough food to go with the water they are
drinking.
.......
To make this even more PCT related, guess eating those nice salty chips to go with all the water would
help a lot! I really think it is easy for desert trekkers to not feel like eating and drink too much
water.
Grab some Pringles in town. Easier to get for re-supply purposes than many of the so-called sports
drinks.
bluffhead
06-05-2009, 16:10
a good rule of thumbs that works for me is for every 3 quarts of water i drink one quart of salt water. cramps are caused by loss of sodium and electrolites, also the beggining of heat exhaustion. i drink over a gallon of h2o a day though.
pedialite works really good for hydration.
My distance-running/UF-playing son drinks pickle juice when he's involved in a multi-hour event in the heat.
When the temperature rises, salt RULES!
pattydivins
06-10-2009, 17:20
What capacity of water containers do you guys bring along?
My plan is to bring 3-4L my next trip.
What capacity of water containers do you guys bring along?
My plan is to bring 3-4L my next trip.
2 Gatorade-type bottles and a Nalgene canteen for when I dry camp. Standard setup I've been using for ~8 yrs now. Damn...time flies. :o
Here's some info, just as dehydration is serious water poisoning is just as fatal:
Water intoxication (also known as 'hyper-hydration' or water poisoning) is a potentially fatal disturbance in brain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brain) functions that results when the normal balance of electrolytes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electrolyte) in the body is pushed outside of safe limits by over-consumption of water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water).[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication#cite_note-0) Normal, healthy (both physically and nutritionally) individuals have little to worry about accidentally consuming too much water. Nearly all deaths related to water intoxication in normal individuals have resulted either from water drinking contests, in which individuals attempt to consume more than 10 liters (2.2 imp gal; 2.6 U.S. gal) of water over the course of just a few minutes, or long bouts of intensive exercise during which electrolytes are not properly replenished, yet massive amounts of fluid are still consumed.
Dehydration -Sports and other vigorous activities can cause excessive fluid loss from perspiration. This kind of dehydration increases the likelihood of "true" cramps. These cramps are more likely in warm weather and can be an early sign of heat stroke (http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=10110).
Sodium depletion has also been associated with cramps. Loss of sodium, the most abundant chemical constituent of body fluids outside the cell, is usually a function of dehydration.
Body fluid shifts: "True" cramps also may be experienced in other conditions that feature an unusual distribution of body fluids.
Low blood calcium, magnesium: Low blood levels of either calcium or magnesium directly increase the excitability of both the nerve endings and the muscles they stimulate.
Low potassium: Low potassium levels occasionally cause muscle cramps, although it is more common for low potassium to be associated with muscle weakness.
:-?
1. As a young, slender, presumably healthy guy your kidneys should be in pretty good shape, which means that they should be able to compensate for a pretty wide range of fluid intake. The fact that you had trouble on your first day makes me somewhat doubtful that this was a water-intake issue. Have you had any kidney disease in the past? The only thing that I can think of at your age that might cause kidney problems are either congenital defects or if you got diagnosed as a Type 1 diabetic at a young age. Does either of those things apply to you?
2. Did your calf muscles start cramping before or after you noticed the color change in your urine? If you were doing some pretty strenuous hiking it is possible that you pushed yourself into an kidney problem called acute tubular necrosis. There is an oxygen binding protein called myoglobin. It's like hemoglobin in the blood but it's in your muscles...it has a higher affinity for oxygen than hemoglobin and "drags" the O2 from the blood into the muscle so that energy production can occur in your muscle cells. If you were pushing yourself pretty hard for several hours, your muscle cells can "break" and release myoglobin into your bloodstream. Myoglobin, in high enough concentration is toxic to the renal tubule cells and can cause them to die. This is a well-known phenomenon among marathon runners. Myoglobin can also make your urine brown.
3. Regardless of whether or not the above is correct, go in and see your doc. He/she can run routine urine/blood tests to assess the functional status of your kidneys. Even if nothing is wrong, the peace of mind should be worth your time and money.
Petr