View Full Version : Tarptent Rainbow
Speakeasy
05-26-2009, 19:22
Hi - Looking for any experience or impressions regarding the Rainbow Tarptent. I'm thinkinig of switching out from a Eureka Spitfire...
Thank You:cool:
Speakeasy
bigcranky
05-26-2009, 20:02
I have a Double Rainbow. I like it. Easy to set up, good ventilation, decent room for two and very spacious for one. It's not the lightest choice for a solo shelter (my tarp is much lighter), but the rain and bug protection is good.
FamilyGuy
05-26-2009, 20:16
I like it but it is a bit fiddly to put up. Single walled, you can expect some condensation in the right circumstances, and I find the bathtub floor tension a bit finicky. Having said that, it is very large inside. So far I am happy (but I have several tents:D)
I found it finicky to set up as well, especially keeping it taut. Weak in heavy winds, and you will get splash in during a hard rain. As FG said, condensation will be a real issue under specific circumstances... It is lite, but ultimately I have gone back to a double wall tent... A reliable shelter is worth the extra weigt for me...
Big Dawg
05-26-2009, 20:58
You can't go wrong w/ any Tarptent from Henry Shires. I own the Double Rainbow & love it.
Big Dawg
05-26-2009, 21:02
BTW, you can make the Rainbow & D.Rainbow a double wall by adding the mesh attachment to the ceiling. I assume Henry still sells that attachment.
I have the Double Rainbow. I have used it on 9 or 10 nights now and only experienced condensation once, and everything was wet that morning. I have also used it during a very heavy thunderstorm at 4,500 feet on Gregory bald. There was a fine misting which others have noticed as well, but not enough for concern and it was a dry refuge from the storm. Overall I'd give mine 9 stars out of 10, but I've never been in love with any tent enough to give it a 10...:)
Splash in during heavy rain from poor set up would be my only concern. Pick a good tent site and you should not have any problems.
I've owned the Rainbow for three years now and have spent at least 60 nights in it. I like it and would recommend it. You will need to seal it and instructions are included. Mine started leaking along the pole sleeve recently. I called Henry and he offered a suggestion for a quick fix and if that didn't work I could return it, that was after using it for two years. Apparently if you're not careful and allow the poles to separate and snap back together while in the pole sleeve they can nick the sleeve and allow leaks. Seam sealing the sleeve solved the problem. I've used the Rainbow in heavy rains and wind with no problems. You need to pitch it tightly and keep the sides down close to the ground in heavy rain and wind. Also you can raise the sides of the floor to the bathtub position for rain and lower for maximum ventilation.
The Will
05-27-2009, 01:58
I would be concerned if I were to encounter heavy winds.
There is A LOT of space inside. You can fit two regular width Therma-a-rests side by side in the single Rainbow.
FamilyGuy
05-27-2009, 10:51
I would be concerned if I were to encounter heavy winds.
There is A LOT of space inside. You can fit two regular width Therma-a-rests side by side in the single Rainbow.
I would second that. In fact, I have found the Hubba more wind worthy surprisingly (it must have to do with the end poles and how they angle out at about 45 degrees). However, one can set up trekking poles vertically at the front and back (there are grommets there) that can add to stability.
I should have also mentioned that it needs to be big inside because the vestibule is really quite small. I only put my boots in there and my pack goes inside.
RichardD
05-27-2009, 11:31
Contrary to a few of the posts here I find the Rainbow to be extremely easy and fast to set up.
I have used it for three years, about 25 weeks total. It does stand up well to strong winds, the worst I camped in was on Snow Mesa on the Co trail I don't know in mph what the winds were but they were strong with hail. In strong storms a little spray comes in but nothing to be concerned about. I can compare it directly to the Eureka Zeuss which I also used. It is every bit as storm worthy as the Eureka.
People I have hiked with used Hilleberg and Black Diamond tents and I can say that the Rainbow performed just as well as these tents in the adverse weather that we experienced. The Rainbow was faster to erect than any of these tents and almost as fast as the Eureka Zeus (which in my experience is the fastest tent out there to errect).
I carry a tent sponge and wipe off the condensation from the inside of the tent before getting up. Condensation on the whole is easy to manage.
I have been very satisfied with mine, I have switched to a hammock this year and I hope I end up just as pleased with it.
Ive owned a Shires Rainbow for three years now. It has sheltered me over Vermont's LT twice, the JMT, and most recently a snowy 105 mile AT section hike from Davenport Gap to Erwin. Overall it has been a good tent. It's strong points are its light weight, roominess inside inside to accomodate a pack and boots (in this regard it is much larger than the Hubba), and ease of setup. Inside roof condensation has occured at times but has not been a major problem. The tent has stood up to strong winds admirably.
On the negative side, the mesh directly above the bathtub floor will let in splash during a wind/rain event. In cooler temps wind coming in thru the mesh will chill you down. Over time if stored in low humidity the grommet strap used to secure the hub pole will shrink to the point the hub pole needs to be shortened (or Henry will put an adjustable buckle on it free of charge).
I am considering a Double Rainbow because it would offer more dry area in the middle away from splash. Plus it is only 7 ounces more than the Rainbow.
FamilyGuy
05-27-2009, 12:45
People I have hiked with used Hilleberg and Black Diamond tents and I can say that the Rainbow performed just as well as these tents in the adverse weather that we experienced.
I own several tents - including a Hilleberg Akto. There is not way in heck that a Rainbow will stand up to the same conditions as the Akto. No chance in.....
FamilyGuy
05-27-2009, 12:47
It's strong points are its light weight, roominess inside inside to accomodate a pack and boots (in this regard it is much larger than the Hubba), and ease of setup.
I agree with most of your points except that the vestibule is 1/2 the size of a Hubba. So realistically, although you get less room inside with the Hubba, you don't have to bring your pack in with you. In bug free consitions, opening the door on both will net you the same overall covered space.
The Hubba can be set up in 45 seconds. Seriously. Don't get me wrong, I like the Rainbow, but it is not perfect.
I own several tents - including a Hilleberg Akto. There is not way in heck that a Rainbow will stand up to the same conditions as the Akto. No chance in.....
Agreed... There is one particular bluff on Grand Manan Island that I camp on often, and is known for high wind gusts of 80kms/h or more... I've had my double wall tents completely flatten out on me and then spring back up once the wind eases. That same spot, the tarptent double rainbow first completely flattened and then started flapping in the wind like a sheet on a clothes line... I had to exit the tent to re-erect it and secure it, and repeat all night long... Never again...
skinewmexico
05-27-2009, 16:10
Are you guys who have trouble with the Rainbow in the wind using trekking poles, and the secondary guy-out lines?
RichardD
05-27-2009, 16:39
My post said that in the conditions that "we experienced" the Rainbow stood up just as well as my hiking friends Hilleberg and Black Diamond. This included rather heavy thunderstorms with hail. I would not expect the Rainbow to do as well as these other tents in winter storms nor did I say it would.
FamilyGuy
05-27-2009, 17:57
My post said that in the conditions that "we experienced" the Rainbow stood up just as well as my hiking friends Hilleberg and Black Diamond. This included rather heavy thunderstorms with hail. I would not expect the Rainbow to do as well as these other tents in winter storms nor did I say it would.
Thanks for the clarification.
Speakeasy
05-27-2009, 18:14
Thank you for all the good info. By the way, does anyone have any input as to how it compares to the Contrail?
Thank You
Speakeasy,
(the hiker formerly known as Nrvana)
RichardD
05-27-2009, 19:47
Yes, I have both. I purchased a Contrail for my sister a couple of years ago but I have used it also.
The Contrail is of course lighter. I found it harder to get in and out of the Contrail and in order to sit up I would have to scoot back from my sleeping postion. (The roofline slopes from high at the entrance to low at the foot. ) I found it to be a little more fussy to set up.
For me the additional weight of the Rainbow over the Contrail is worth the extra luxury. The Contrail is still a good tent and I found it to be quite storm worthy. The Rainbow - more so.
The Rainbow is my favorite tent. I think it has the best ratio of room (both horizontal and vertical), lightweight, takes up small footprint (important in forested areas).
Matteroo
05-28-2009, 04:37
we have a double rainbow and contrail, and used a squall II for the AT. The Squall II is my favorite - easy to get taught/setup..room, etc. But it was borrowed from a friend so not ours to keep.
contrail fine, lighweight, good for one person -- seemed most finicky to setup of the three tents - especially the "peg legs" at the foot box, etc.. bucket had it fail her in a heavy rain (probably could have been setup better-wouldn't blanketly blame the tent).
double rainbow = nicer than the squall II in that it has two doors and two vestibules. Seems a bit more difficult to setup (Squall was very easy for one person to do) and get taught. The center arch poll seems to do a very shallow S shape once I tighten everything up - probably effects nothing but i am obsessive about symmetry and getting it perfect and i could do that on the squall II.
squall II and double rainbow.. DR has had more condensation but i should stress the DR has only been used in the pacific nw, squall II in appalachians. Also if you keep both vestibule flaps wrapped on double rainbow, mesh of door kind of slants up, so even if a slight rain occured, you'd want to bring both flaps down, not the case on the Squall II.
Also Squall II rear area where the hoop pole and single stake went, you could use that area to store your boots really well!
honestly if I had to go back I think I'd get the squall II, instead of DR..but DR is a pretty good tent still, i get gear to use it and 90% of stuff works great, 5% of the remaining stuff can frequently be modified to work pretty great, and the final 5% is just screwed up like someone forgot to do product testing or it was designed by someone who lives in a cubicle and spends their free time there too.
FamilyGuy
05-28-2009, 10:17
I wish Henry would get rid of the rear struts on the Contrail and configure a small hooped pole.
bigcranky
05-28-2009, 10:29
I wish Henry would get rid of the rear struts on the Contrail and configure a small hooped pole.
You are describing the original solo shelter, the Virga. You might be able to find one for sale used somewhere.
Used my Rainbow on trail for the first time last weekend. Jury is still out because I have been using a 1/4Dome for years and I still love it and there were a couple of operator error (I hope) things with the Rainbow.
Not much room vestibule wise but I usually drag everything inside anyway. For this, the tent had plenty of room. I did not experience condensation and we were at the Big South Fork tick reservation in TN.
I'm not too sure about the venting mesh around the bottom. Seems like that could be friggin' breezy in really cold weather. And in a heavy rain I can't help but feel it would splash in. But too, it may be why I did not have moisture.
The second night faired worse. It started raining and while I had no apparent leaks (I followed the seam sealing routine suggested including the ridgepole line) the guy outs and the elastic tub loop both slipped off the stake causing that corner of the tent to collapse and lay against not only the floor but my sleeping bag as well. I had the stake buried pretty deep but probably rolled over at some point and kicked the tent causing all this.
Even so, I still didn't end up with a flood, just water on the floor. I use a BA sleep system so only the pocket for the pad got wet. And a spot on top where the tent wall had laid.
I mopped up the water with a bandana and no real harm was done.
I think I may end up agreeing with a post here that says a little extra weight is worth the stability and comfort.
Freestanding is the cat's meow! The 1/4Dome I NEVER staked out. Never had a leak. Two poles through the dead end sleeves and I'm ready to sleep.
The Rainbow can be freestanding but that whole thing of using the trekkinpoles is a huge PITA! Still working on that too though. Practice...practice.....
I think I may end up agreeing with a post here that says a little extra weight is worth the stability and comfort.
Freestanding is the cat's meow! The 1/4Dome I NEVER staked out. Never had a leak. Two poles through the dead end sleeves and I'm ready to sleep.
The Rainbow can be freestanding but that whole thing of using the trekkinpoles is a huge PITA! Still working on that too though. Practice...practice.....
For gearheads, a Rainbow would likely be a great tent, as they enjoy continually tweaking, adjusting and playing with their gear... For folks who just want to quickly set up camp and then forget about it to focus on reading, journaling, cooking, or just the solitude, the rainbow is a PITA.
Like you, I prefer a simple pole/sleeve or pole/clip setup and seperate fly, all quickly erects and provides a stable freestanding shelter that requires no fuss, or adjustment.
Still to this day my favorite and most used shelter is my old REI Sierra Dome... Very quick and easy to set up, reasonably lite, and has never once failed me... So the GFs Double Rainbow has found it's place at the back of the gear closet... Like I said, for ease of use, and reliable protection, I'll happily carry an extra pound.
FamilyGuy
05-28-2009, 10:54
You are describing the original solo shelter, the Virga. You might be able to find one for sale used somewhere.
Thanks a bunch!
I have the original Squall and the Rainbow. If your joints are sore or you're not very flexible, it's not the easiest thing to exit/enter the Squall because the front pole is right in the center. I've only been in it twice during what you could call a heavy, heavy downpour, and it sagged quite a bit both times. I was too lazy to get out and retension the thing. A little bit of misting, too, when the rain was really pounding down.
The Rainbow has a lot more usable space. I can set up in it to pack gear, get dressed, etc. Easy to enter/exit, too. Haven't been in it during a serious downpour so I can't speak to the spray coming from the mesh. I had an issue with condensation, but that was when it was below freezing. All in all, I like the Rainbow better, but if I was still young and had pain-free knees, I'd probably use the Squall just to save the weight and also the ease of set up.
I have pics of both my tents on my gallery page.
UCONNMike
05-28-2009, 16:45
I bought my Tarptent Rainbow 2 years ago, and have only really used it a dozen times or so (I have a few over tents or I just sleep out in the open or in a lean-to). I love the space inside, I'm 6'4" so where I am sitting up or laying down there is plenty of room for me to maneuver around. I love the light weight aspect of it, and that is can become a free standing tent using trekking poles. As someone said earlier there is alot of adjusting that you need to do in order to get it just right, but the basic set-up is very fast. I have not been in a rain storm while inside the tent so I can't speak to the splash factor, but in all honesty I'd have to believe there would be a significant amount of water that pops in unless you have your bath-tub real tightened up.
What are some tips to making that bathtub floor really pop up? mine just seems to angle upwards, and doesn't look anything like it does in the picture on Henry's site.
While I know people will say i'm nuts for saying I love this tent I'd recommend it, even though i'm not confident in it's ability to keep out water...I don't care, it's a really cool tent, I'm a real gear guy and I love the adjustments, the uniqueness, along with its feather weight, size, and ease of set up.
Pic of my Rainbow in action (http://photos-d.ak.fbcdn.net/photos-ak-sf2p/v192/210/66/9009216/n9009216_36041907_2777.jpg)
Mike
If the floor is not sitting up and or has "waves" on it, that is a sure sign that it has not being set up correctly. A possible cause is that the elastic loop/shock cord attached to the bottom of each corner has not in place, see close up shot of the corner)
To keep the floor further up use the mid clip up points as in my shot (IE don't use the elastic)
Matteroo
Shallow "s" bend. That means you have put a bit too much tension on the guylines.
I too like a taut set up , so it is a fine balance between not enough and too much. A way out for you could be to use a thicker pole. I think that HS has some 9mm poles for it (not that I can find them on his web site...)
Eman
The 360 degree mesh has two effects. maximum air flow and reduced wind protection.
More protection results in more condensation.
"the guy outs and the elastic tub loop both slipped off the stake " , maybe you are not setting the peg in at an adequate angle, about 45 degrees.
Contrail.
If you find ingress/egress a bit difficult , try using two pole rather than one . Yes you do need to sit up towards the front, then just pull your knees in and swing around .
Tent set up.
For the ones that find setting up tents a bit of a challenge , a free standing dome design is obviously a better choice.
The other option is to practice, hopefully not making the same mistake every time.
(my grandma cooked pasta for more than 70 years, but always too soft)
Think of when you learned how to ride a bike. Looks pretty comical when you see (particularly an adult) doing it, but I doubt that anyone has ever managed just to sit on one and peddle away the first time.
But just like I could never do more than two faces of the Rubik cube whilst it can be done in under 11 sec (average time !) some will find tent erection more problematic then others.
Franco
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Rainbow%20mods/Rainbow-floor.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Rainbow%20mods/Rainbow-floor-3.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Rainbow%20mods/Rainbow-floor-2.jpg
Vestibule
see picture. That is a 60L pack.
Silnylon sagging/stretching
I set up the Rainbow about half an hour ago, its about 15c (59f) outside, still a bit humid.
In that time the fabric has relaxed completely, if I tension it now it would remain fully taut regardless of how humid/cold/wet it gets.
The point is that if you tighten the tent before you go to sleep , it is unlikely that you will need to do it again during the night.
However keep in mind that even dome tents made out of silnylon (the Soulo for example) will flap if not re-adjusted once the fabric relaxes.
Franco
( I am testing a new camera I bought for my wife....)
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Rainbow%20mods/Rainbow-60L-pack.jpg
FamilyGuy
05-28-2009, 21:49
I think that HS has some 9mm poles for it (not that I can find them on his web site...)
Yes - that is correct.:D
Tell you the truth, I'm not sure what happened. I figured the stake had simply pulled out of the ground but when I got up to fix the problem, both the guy out and elastic had come off the stake which I had to actually look for. It was still buried in the ground at the original angle with the hook still buried as well. I had done this in consideration of the hook possibly spinning and causing just this problem.
At the time, rather than stand in the rain and scratch my head, I said screw it, just refastened and went back to bed
I reckon I'll need to get it set up a few more times before I get that tight bathtub as in your photo. My mid point (as in near the door) is this longish piece of eleastic loop that really seems too long. I could find nothing shorter but I figured I'd just tie a knot in it. Maybe sew it a couple of times. Am I missing something there? Your picture, if it's the same spot, shows a shorter piece. My tent is still set up in my garage so I'll check that out.
I like the tent. Lightweight and plenty of space so I'm definitely willing to give it a further shot.
Thanks.
bigcranky
05-29-2009, 09:05
Tell you the truth, I'm not sure what happened. I figured the stake had simply pulled out of the ground but when I got up to fix the problem, both the guy out and elastic had come off the stake which I had to actually look for. It was still buried in the ground at the original angle with the hook still buried as well.
I have had the titanium hook stakes (http://www.rei.com/product/709915) turn around and release the guy line on both tarps and tarptents. PITA.
My Double Rainbow came with the peg (or nail) type stakes (http://www.rei.com/product/756438) instead of the titanium shepherd's crook stakes. The loop at the end of the guy line is small enough that it cannot slide over the top of the stake. The loop at the end of the elastic floor cord slips over the top of the stake and stays put. I like these stakes better than the old ones, and they don't seem to weigh any more.
I haven't had any trouble setting up my DR. I peg down all four corners, then slide the pole through the sleeve, then stake out the vestibules, then pull the elastic floor cords out and loop them over the corner stakes. Even in the rain, this keeps the inside pretty dry. I sometimes need to tweak the placement of a corner stake, but that's about it. Once it's set up, it's fine -- no need for continuous adjustment.
As for heavy wind, we had very strong and gusty winds on top of Springer in March. I used my hiking poles to support the main pole, but instead of using the little grommets I put the handle of the hiking pole up inside the vent area and stuck the sharp end in the ground just outside the door zipper. Worked very well.
Tarptents are colder than many double wall tents. All that ventilation lets in cold breezes in the winter. That's just the nature of the design. I came to Tarptents from using flat Tarps in the winter, so to me they are actually warmer than what I was using. But it's definitely something to keep in mind.
I bought the DR for trips with my wife. Then I used it on my solo section hike in March, and liked it. Not sure if it will replace my tarp/bivy combo for solo hikes in the future -- after all, it's more than a pound heavier. But the extra space and coverage is nice to have sometimes. It might turn out to be my winter shelter of choice. ("Winter" in a Southern A.T. context.)
crazypete
05-29-2009, 09:39
I have used the rainbow for this season only but I am extremely pleased with it. I have used it on cold nights and it is surprisingly warm when pitched low. I have used it in torrential downpours and I dont see and splashing up likewise...since I pitch it real low. You can use the little tabs on the outer loop sleeve and run the pole outside rather than through the sleeve and the tent sits a little lower.
For an ultralight tent plus with the massive headroom it offers, the small amount of misting is not an issue.
I think this is the perfect tent. Space inside is incredible! The last backpacking tent I had that had anywhere near this much room inside was my eureka zeus 2le, which was over 4 pounds.
crazypete
05-29-2009, 09:45
Here's a gallery of the rainbow in service for winter camping. She was pitched on top of 4 feet of snow. Kept me real warm that night.
Pitched "wrong" in low setting
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=238896&l=c93b452eb8&id=1521860751
Regular
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=239018&l=24c8aa4e88&id=1521860751
Look at that headroom!
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=238897&l=1b325164cc&id=1521860751
One of my favorite pictures ever
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=238914&l=bdc59e1ba7&id=1521860751
The gallery:
http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2016099&id=1521860751&l=db0bd591cc
BTW....we scattered all the wood when we left and we checked on it when we re-attempted isolation and that campsite is completely gone. There is NO TRACE.
Eman
" I had done this in consideration of the hook possibly spinning and causing just this problem."
Yes I can relate to that. It has happened to me and that is why I use those (shepherd's hook) pegs only in my backyard.
TT list the Rainbow as a 1+ tent. What that means is that if you let the floor down (don't hook it up) it will fit two standard mats (and it does).
That side connection is designed to give you three option on how high you want the floor if at all. See picture.
Again I recommend inserting the arch pole first so that you can push it into the sleeve downwards, that avoids bumping into the cross strut., then peg down the corners.
BTW , any tent that when set up does not look the same as on the website is not pitched correctly....
Pete
Nice shots. The first time I set the Rainbow up I put the pole inside (under) the fly because I could not find the sleeve opening ( my attention span is about 3 sec)
I have had a layer of ice on the inside of my Rainbow , most of the top, that I think has kept me warm...
Always a fine balance between warmth and condensation, I think that an extra pound of down is more effective than an extra pound of fabric. That is why I like the idea of the Scarp having the sides higher than the European equivalents so that you get a better air flow
Franco
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Tarptent%20Rainbow/Rainbow-floor-hook.jpg
FamilyGuy
05-29-2009, 20:53
In the winter, in my neck of the woods, a higher fly means snow in your vestibule.
I predict that fly will come down a bit in future iterations, but I could be wrong. As long as the inner can be ventilated to prevent condensation (on the inner), condensation on the outer is irrelevant. Especially since the Scarp permits a detaching of the inner from the outer. Why does this sound like medical school?
i saw a thru using a double rainbow last week (the only HS tarptent i saw, saw another guy using a SMD lunar solo). he jerry rigged it to set up on a tent platform at tumbling run (i think) shelter. that thing was a palace i must say!
take-a-knee
05-29-2009, 23:28
I wish Henry would get rid of the rear struts on the Contrail and configure a small hooped pole.
Like this?
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/Squall_Classic.html?id=GIomPRPh:174.131.18.144
i must say though it's gay that he doesn't seam seal the tarptent for you. it's just like thermarest charging you for the stuff sack. lamos
"I wish Henry would get rid of the rear struts on the Contrail and configure a small hooped pole."
The Virga had that, however because silnylon shrinks and the small arch required , even with pre-bent sections ,in the heat some managed to break it setting it up or dismantling it.
At the same time if you don't have the guylines attached to the pole itself (or the struts..) you cannot put on it the same tension I use on mine.
Less tension, less wind resistance.
Seam sealing.
Tarptent for a fee will seal the tent for you. Keep in mind that when you do it in your spare time, that is your spare time....
Six Moon Design also offer that service , Stephenson's will do it for $50 and add a two weeks delay to the delivery . They describe that as "$20 to seam seal plus $30 as punitive charge.
With the big ones, such as Black Diamond, you just have to do it yourself...
Franco
FamilyGuy
05-30-2009, 01:34
Like this?
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/Squall_Classic.html?id=GIomPRPh:174.131.18.144
Perfect....except the price.
FamilyGuy
05-30-2009, 01:38
Franco - I still think the struts are a weak point in the structure and which seem to give most users the most frustration. Although your modification at the rear might improve wind performance, then that implies a weakness in that area.;)
It depends a lot on your attitude and point of view.
For example I have several friends that are into cycling. They l buy a bike and then start fiddling with it . By the time they finished "upgrading" the various parts little more than the original frame is original.
None of them think that those bikes are "faulty" or "inferior" ...
As for tents, when i played with the Akto I could see a few things that I would have changed if I had one. That , from my point of view, does not mean that it is "weak" it just means that it can be adapted or improved to my taste.
In the last few days I purchased a GSI mug and a pair of Neos Overshoes.
Made a modification to the lid of the mug and made some insoles for the overshoes so that I can wear my runner as well as my boots.
Never for a moment i thought that either product was "faulty" ....
Some like to find solutions, others like to talk about problems, the choice is yours.
Franco
SMD, stephensons, and BD are lamos then as well. there's no point in saying "out tents will keep you dry and they are awesome blah blah blah. BUTTTTTT if you don't pay us extra for seam sealing then you might as well leave the tent at home and expect to get soaked
seriously. when you pay that much money for a piece of equipment it should be ready to roll right out of the box. it'd be like having to pay extra for leather seats on a BMW
FamilyGuy
05-30-2009, 10:50
It depends a lot on your attitude and point of view.
For example I have several friends that are into cycling. They l buy a bike and then start fiddling with it . By the time they finished "upgrading" the various parts little more than the original frame is original.
None of them think that those bikes are "faulty" or "inferior" ...
As for tents, when i played with the Akto I could see a few things that I would have changed if I had one. That , from my point of view, does not mean that it is "weak" it just means that it can be adapted or improved to my taste.
In the last few days I purchased a GSI mug and a pair of Neos Overshoes.
Made a modification to the lid of the mug and made some insoles for the overshoes so that I can wear my runner as well as my boots.
Never for a moment i thought that either product was "faulty" ....
Some like to find solutions, others like to talk about problems, the choice is yours.
Franco
If you are buying something that you are going to have to tinker with....extensively, then perhaps this 'something' was the wrong thing to buy. You should have bought something that was closer to the ideal for your circumstances. By the way, I don't think anyone used the term 'faulty' but I could be wrong.
On something like the Akto, for example, there are certain things I would like to see but as you mentioned in a previous post, should you tinker with the very successful and oft copied design, then you end up with the new Franco 5 lb Akto (that was your comment, not mine).
As far as bikes are concerned. Never would I think of tinkering with my Trek EX9. For my purposes, it is almost perfect. Plus to screw with a bike that cost that much is either stupid or anal. Perhaps your friends should have bought something closer to their needs from the start, which was my original point.
And yes - buying a tent that is waterproof should mean that it is waterproof. That would mean it comes with taped or sealed seams. You should not have to do it yourself. I don't find the experience particularily rewarding, bonding, or existential.:D
take-a-knee
05-30-2009, 11:27
Perfect....except the price.
FG, it is spinnaker, that is why it is pricey, did you notice the weight?
FamilyGuy
05-30-2009, 11:58
FG, it is spinnaker, that is why it is pricey, did you notice the weight?
Yes - insane weight! But I generally have to pass things by my wife first or it costs me in the long run....i.e. shoes, clothes, vacation, etc. Still, I prefer that design and the amount of room for the weight is outstanding. I like the no-stretch component as well.
that too is an awesome looking tent TAK
take-a-knee
05-30-2009, 16:01
Yes - insane weight! But I generally have to pass things by my wife first or it costs me in the long run....i.e. shoes, clothes, vacation, etc. Still, I prefer that design and the amount of room for the weight is outstanding. I like the no-stretch component as well.
Yes, I believe the GG Spinnaker version is wider than the original. Several here have complained about those little upright poles at the foot of the current design.
Speakeasy
05-30-2009, 19:38
i must say though it's gay that he doesn't seam seal the tarptent for you. it's just like thermarest charging you for the stuff sack. lamos
The 80's called. They'd like their lingo back:D
Take note that the $325 Squall Classic also needs to be seam sealed...
Perhaps to make some feel better I should suggest that HS lists The Rainbow at $249 , with a $25 discount for the ones that want to seam-seal it themselves...
In reality if everyone wanted their TT/SMD/BD/Bibler/GG and whatever other shelters need to be sealed by the customer done at the factory it would mean outsourcing to China or some other country with cheaper labour costs ( Estonia ?) or a lot more than a $20-30 surcharge.
This reminds me a bit of when we used to do Developing and Printing at a fix rate of $11.99 plus $3 for a film(house brand), the opposition used to charge $14.99 including a free film( same film as us, different house brand on it) . Some customers argued that the opposition had a better price...
Franco
If you are buying something that you are going to have to tinker with....extensively, then perhaps this 'something' was the wrong thing to buy. You should have bought something that was closer to the ideal for your circumstances. By the way, I don't think anyone used the term 'faulty' but I could be wrong.
On something like the Akto, for example, there are certain things I would like to see but as you mentioned in a previous post, should you tinker with the very successful and oft copied design, then you end up with the new Franco 5 lb Akto (that was your comment, not mine).
As far as bikes are concerned. Never would I think of tinkering with my Trek EX9. For my purposes, it is almost perfect. Plus to screw with a bike that cost that much is either stupid or anal. Perhaps your friends should have bought something closer to their needs from the start, which was my original point.
And yes - buying a tent that is waterproof should mean that it is waterproof. That would mean it comes with taped or sealed seams. You should not have to do it yourself. I don't find the experience particularily rewarding, bonding, or existential.:D
I take it you are not very good with your hands,and not much for thinking about how to improve things. Just follow blindly???:D
FamilyGuy
05-30-2009, 21:34
I take it you are not very good with your hands,and not much for thinking about how to improve things. Just follow blindly???:D
Who told you?
Who told you?
All in fun...:D
Take note that the $325 Squall Classic also needs to be seam sealed...
Franco
What is the "Squall Classic"? Do you mean the Hogback?
FamilyGuy
05-30-2009, 21:58
All in fun...:D
Better not have been that Franco fellow!
;)
Better not have been that Franco fellow!
;)
Nope...never heard of him ;)
John B
No I meant the Squall Classic, sold by Gossamer Gear, mentioned on post 41
Franco
my OES tarp came seam sealed. the seam seal was included in the tarp's weight and initial cost. THAT'S how things should be done honestly
If a bit of DIY is dishonest , I am not sure why Ikea is so successful. But I would suggest better you avoid them...
I know that it will sound strange to you, but I enjoy seam sealing my tents, and I did that before I bought my first Tarptent.
Both my Bibler and my Black Diamond (both made in China...) are a lot more expensive than any of the TT, still I had no problem whatsoever in doing the job myself. However I do realise that not everyone feels like that, that is life.
BTW, none of the manufactures I mentioned above (and there are more) engage in anything even remotely dishonest because they make it very clear that you need to do that yourself.
Franco
John B
No I meant the Squall Classic, sold by Gossamer Gear, mentioned on post 41
Franco
Gotcha. Not accustomed to seeing two companies with almost identical product names.
i didn't say it was dishonest. i said it was gay
FamilyGuy
05-31-2009, 11:06
Gotcha. Not accustomed to seeing two companies with almost identical product names.
GG actually comissioned the design back to Henry so it is Henry's original design, I believe.
but I enjoy seam sealing my tents,
Part of the cosmic deal with a new tent.
Not sure I would feel the same if I had as many tents as you!
i didn't say it was dishonest. i said it was gay
Gay...no.But for the money spent yes.It's called finish work like a trim carp would do.....you dont get $ till it's done right.
Wags
Maybe my problem is that I actually read and think about those comments, sometime...
"THAT'S how things should be done honestly"
Your above comment would suggest to me that in your mind the converse is also true.
(not a big deal, just different ways of looking at things)
John B
Of course the GG DSquall is an HS design, he "tweaked" that slightly so that it could be done using crinkly material.
That has offered some comic relief to me when I see positive comments on it from guys that otherwise love to rubbish Tarptent.
Family Guy
No I did not tell anyone that you are not good with your hands, in fact one could argue that you may be rather good with one... (insert as many smileys as required)
Mudhead
"Not sure I would feel the same if I had as many tents as you!"
If I had 10 (or so) children which one should I like less ?
( to improve the chances of survival for the human race I opted not to have any offspring's)
Franco
oh franco. you just can't take a single little criticism of your beloved tarptents. the sarcasm is in poor taste as well.
oh wags, I have a hard time picturing someone like Jack Stephenson (Warmlite.com) gay in any form , let that be lame,homosexual or even happy, and definitely I would not suggest to his face (or otherwise) that his business was not honest.
But indulge me, now that you know that the Gossamer Gear Squall Classic is a licensed Tarptent design and like all other shelters sold by Gossamer Gear needs to be seam sealed by the customer, do you still think that it is "awesome" or is it also lame ?
BTW, you can add Kifaru, Anti Gravity Gear and Mountain Laurel Design to the gay list.
How about going over to the Kifaru forum and tell those guys that they are buying a gay product from a less than honest manufacturer ?
Franco
i said the squall classic "looked" nice. i also said a few pages ago that the double rainbow was really big, or something to that effect. a little compliment for each
my OES tarp came seam sealed. the seam seal was included in the tarp's weight and initial cost.
so you buy from who you want to and think that's the way things are done. and i will do the same. i do not own any products by those companies you listed. and yes i think it is gay that those companies don't seal their "waterproof" structures, regardless of the machismo of the company owners.
thank you and have a nice day.
just curious franco. would you buy a rain jacket that wasn't sealed upon arrival?
ok so i have this buddy who buys cars, and then takes a whole bunch of parts out, and puts replacement parts in. b/c that's important to him
i bought my car and didn't put anything new into it. b/c it's a car ffs
is there a right way to do that?
you gotta get a grip on life
FamilyGuy
06-01-2009, 12:02
Hey guys - I think that this may have gotten a little out of hand. No need to berate each other. Both sides makes good points. I don't take offense to what Franco said because he has a great sense of humour. Anyone who likes Little Britain is okay with me (or was I the one who likes Little Britain). In any event, I think we have a standstill:
The TT's have to be seamsealed as do all silnylon products with a seam, and I do not find it particularly enjoyable, but some do. What is important is that both TT and 6 Moons will do that for you for a fee. Regardless of the additional fee, the products are reasonably priced and perform well. That, I think, we can all agree on.
(I still would prefer if they came seamsealed).
just curious franco. would you buy a rain jacket that wasn't sealed upon arrival?
I too have always found it curious that certain (usually) cottage industry tent company's don't seam seal their tents... I guess it's an easy out if there is a failure or leak... They can simply claim you didn't seam seal properly and they are off the hook..
Imagine hiring a contractor to build you a house and upon completion the contractor hands you the bill and tube of calking and say's, your gonna wanna waterproof all the doors and windows before it rains...
The only purpose of a shelter is protection from the elements... If you buy a tent that is not seam sealed you are missing out on the objective of the tent in the first place...
Odd... Especially considering the price of tarp tents... Yet I bought an REI Sierra Dome years ago, for less than half a double rainbow, that came seam sealed and after years of use, still does not leak... Makes you wonder...
I'm all for supporting home grown cottage industries, but they have to provide a product at least on par with the bigger company's outsourcing to China. Made in Canada/USA is useless if it's not a good product..
I've bought tents before that were factory taped, and they leaked. So what's worse, a small cottage manufacturer who tells you up front, this needs to be seam sealed or it will leak, or a major manufacturer who sells a tent as being sealed, and then places where they rushed end up leaking.
I don't know why, but i've got no problem seam sealing my own tent. and every tent i've ever owned i've sealed, because it gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. If the manufacturers are up front, then what's the big deal. If they sealed it for you, the prices would be higher because manufacturing time would be greater. Yes my time is worth money, but not so much that i can't take 30 or 45 minutes with a new tent sealing it as i learn the best way to set it up and basically ooggle my new dwelling.
I've bought tents before that were factory taped, and they leaked. So what's worse, a small cottage manufacturer who tells you up front, this needs to be seam sealed or it will leak, or a major manufacturer who sells a tent as being sealed, and then places where they rushed end up leaking.
I don't know why, but i've got no problem seam sealing my own tent. and every tent i've ever owned i've sealed, because it gives me that warm fuzzy feeling. If the manufacturers are up front, then what's the big deal. If they sealed it for you, the prices would be higher because manufacturing time would be greater. Yes my time is worth money, but not so much that i can't take 30 or 45 minutes with a new tent sealing it as i learn the best way to set it up and basically ooggle my new dwelling.
Your a gear guy right?
I guess that seems to be the difference, gear heads love to ooggle and touch there gear to no end...
Me on the other hand, could care less about a peice of gear as long as it does what I expect it to do... If I had a tent from a major manufacturer that leaked, especially right from the start, I'd simply send it back and request (demand) a new one... No fuss, no hassle... I built my own house already, if I buy a tent I'll let the manufacture build it and surely it will be complete and ready to use, since that's what I payed for...
Would you buy a car if they told you you had to put your own engine in it, especially when it is an equal price to many other cars that come with an engine?
An unsealed tent is simply some lightweight fabric stretched in the shape of a tent... It's not a tent until it protects you from the elements...
I'm starting a new company called DIY... I'm gonna sell everything from boots to packs to tents to stoves... Simply pick the item you want, punch in your credit card info, and within three days a box will arrive with all the materials necassary to make the product you purchased. You simply DIY... Oh yeah, and the cost will be the same as similar manufactured goods that come ready to use...
Anyone interested in buying shares? They'll be DIY as well, you'll recieve a shareholders package containing one blue crayon and a small piece of paper. Use the crayon to write the value you think your stock is worth on the peice of paper, and your now part of a growing enterprise...
Wow,feel like I am back in High School. This thread has gone very bad. What's that thing about a dead horse?
Wow,feel like I am back in High School. This thread has gone very bad. What's that thing about a dead horse?
Why, did your high school ship you home with a chalk board and books with a letter explaining to your parents that despite the fact that they pay state and community taxes, it will now be their responsibility to educate you?:D
Comparing this to a new car without an engine or a house that has not been weatherized is a bit silly. When you buy a car with an engine installed or a house that has been weatherized, YOU HAVE PAID FOR THOSE SERVICES. It is just in the total price. The bottom line is, if it means that much to someone to buy a tent that is seamsealed, pay for him to do it. Or buy another tent. I think we can all agree that HS is not thinking, "hmm, I think I'll half-ass this for my customers...." In the same way that some products are not sold fully assembled, he sells tents that are not seamsealed. In the end, you have the choice to either pay for the seamsealing, or pay for the value of the tent without the seamsealing. Just consider the lack of seamsealing to be a money-saving option if that makes more sense for you. It is still a nicely-priced tent even if you pay for the seamsealing.
so what is the value of a tent w/o a seam sealed fly then? to me, it's worth $0.
Why, did your high school ship you home with a chalk board and books with a letter explaining to your parents that despite the fact that they pay state and community taxes, it will now be their responsibility to educate you?:D
Dumb...the word of the day. :D Childish,the other word of the day.:D
Comparing this to a new car without an engine or a house that has not been weatherized is a bit silly. When you buy a car with an engine installed or a house that has been weatherized, YOU HAVE PAID FOR THOSE SERVICES. It is just in the total price. The bottom line is, if it means that much to someone to buy a tent that is seamsealed, pay for him to do it. Or buy another tent. I think we can all agree that HS is not thinking, "hmm, I think I'll half-ass this for my customers...." In the same way that some products are not sold fully assembled, he sells tents that are not seamsealed. In the end, you have the choice to either pay for the seamsealing, or pay for the value of the tent without the seamsealing. Just consider the lack of seamsealing to be a money-saving option if that makes more sense for you. It is still a nicely-priced tent even if you pay for the seamsealing.
Well said maddi,
Makes perfect sense to me.Some folks just like to bitch,obviously.
BTW,I just sealed a Squall II. It took all of 5 minutes and about 5 bucks. A small price to pay for a quality tent .
Dumb...the word of the day. :D Childish,the other word of the day.:D
Mama always said I was special!:D
Well said maddi,
Makes perfect sense to me.Some folks just like to bitch,obviously.
BTW,I just sealed a Squall II. It took all of 5 minutes and about 5 bucks. A small price to pay for a quality tent .
So if it takes little time or money, why then is it not done during manufacturing?
bigcranky
06-01-2009, 15:45
So if it takes little time or money, why then is it not done during manufacturing?
The actual seam sealing took me 15 or 20 minutes. First, though, I had to set up the tent in my garage, which took some time (can't put stakes in my concrete floor!), and then it had to stay set up for 24 hours or so to let the silicone cure.
That's no problem for a single tent, but imagine having to set up 30 or 50 or 100 of them indoors for 24-48 hours to cure.
Just give it up on the attacks, huh? You made your point, over and over again. You don't like the tarptent? Great -- don't buy one.
Oh, I have one already...
Oh, I have one already...
Oh,so you just enjoy bitching? Have any real world experience with HS tent? or just the tears?
funny how this thread went from me exposing a simple weakness of the tarptent (and yes, i consider an unsealed seam a weakness), franco defending his baby, a few people understood my point, and finally into an "attack daja" theme
bigcranky
06-01-2009, 19:40
funny how this thread went from me exposing a simple weakness of the tarptent (and yes, i consider an unsealed seam a weakness), franco defending his baby, a few people understood my point, and finally into an "attack daja" theme
Actually I was talking to you....
funny how this thread went from me exposing a simple weakness of the tarptent (and yes, i consider an unsealed seam a weakness), franco defending his baby, a few people understood my point, and finally into an "attack daja" theme
Wow! You sure know how to whine...:rolleyes:
so daja how's the DIY business going? i was thinking of opening a partner store. calling it "customizations". basically it's the same idea as your store, where i just send people materials and they have to put it together. but people can "customize" the product the way they like it through my store...
i hope this doesn't infringe on your copywrite status and business patents
So if it takes little time or money, why then is it not done during manufacturing?
Hey gang, can you all just calm down and let this thing die already? The truth is that there is no machine that can do seam-taping of silicone impregnated ripstop nylon. There are fabrics with silicone on one side and PU on the other and the PU side can be seam-taped, I think, but not the pure silicone fabrics. So...it has to be done by hand. If we had to set up each shelter in a well-ventilated location and seal each one we would simply not be in business. We don't have the inside space during the rainy/snowy winter months nor do we have the time, people, or space to set each one up outside and do the work when weather permits. It takes a few minutes to seal but several hours to dry and the space and logistics just isn't workable. We do offer relatively low price ($20) seam-sealing as a service if you want it. It is not true, for all the reasons above, that it makes business sense to just tack $20 onto the price of our products and include seam-sealing.
Given the seam-sealing situation, if you feel like the value proposition isn't worth it for one for our shelters, there are a whole lot of other choices from which to choose.
Henry Shires
Tarptent
It is not true, for all the reasons above, that it makes business sense to just tack $20 onto the price of our products and include seam-sealing.
Henry Shires
Tarptent
the reasons above were "it hurts my business"... sheesh
i still can't get over the concept of buying a shelter to protect me from weather and it coming to me and not being ready to protect me from weather. i guess you're right, there are other options out there
take-a-knee
06-01-2009, 21:49
the reasons above were "it hurts my business"... sheesh
i still can't get over the concept of buying a shelter to protect me from weather and it coming to me and not being ready to protect me from weather. i guess you're right, there are other options out there
Then avail yourself of those other options knucklehead! Git you one o' them good chinese taped shelters, made by some company owned by some non-hiking knuckleheads who figured out how to reduce their bottom line by moving to a country sans child-labor laws, workplace safety etc, etc. A tarptent is the brainchild of a long trail veteran, who employs other americans to produce a product the "outdoor industry" didn't think people wanted. You need to look in a mirror and bitch slap yourself.
fancyfeet
06-01-2009, 22:11
Hey gang, can you all just calm down and let this thing die already? The truth is that there is no machine that can do seam-taping of silicone impregnated ripstop nylon. There are fabrics with silicone on one side and PU on the other and the PU side can be seam-taped, I think, but not the pure silicone fabrics. So...it has to be done by hand. If we had to set up each shelter in a well-ventilated location and seal each one we would simply not be in business. We don't have the inside space during the rainy/snowy winter months nor do we have the time, people, or space to set each one up outside and do the work when weather permits. It takes a few minutes to seal but several hours to dry and the space and logistics just isn't workable. We do offer relatively low price ($20) seam-sealing as a service if you want it. It is not true, for all the reasons above, that it makes business sense to just tack $20 onto the price of our products and include seam-sealing.
Given the seam-sealing situation, if you feel like the value proposition isn't worth it for one for our shelters, there are a whole lot of other choices from which to choose.
Henry Shires
Tarptent
Hey, thanks for replying, Henry. I was wondering about that myself. Your answer makes sense to me. I'm seriously considering getting the Rainbow before my trip to Iceland this summer. I am wondering about the windworthiness - how does it hold up to serious wind? Iceland can get some wicked gusts that literally knock you down.
Oh,so you just enjoy bitching? Have any real world experience with HS tent? or just the tears?
As I said earlier, I've used it and have decided the only advantage to it over a conventional self standing double wall tent is that it is light weight... It requires persistence to get a taut pitch, it is flimsy in high winds (something that is common on the Atlantic coast), it has condensation issues under cool moist conditions (again common on the atlantic coast) and get splash in during heavy rain. (again common..)
The OP was requesting imput from those who have used them... That's what I provided.. It's light, but thats about it... It is the basic materials for a structure... Which leads to where this thread departed..
Hey gang, can you all just calm down and let this thing die already? The truth is that there is no machine that can do seam-taping of silicone impregnated ripstop nylon. There are fabrics with silicone on one side and PU on the other and the PU side can be seam-taped, I think, but not the pure silicone fabrics. So...it has to be done by hand. If we had to set up each shelter in a well-ventilated location and seal each one we would simply not be in business. We don't have the inside space during the rainy/snowy winter months nor do we have the time, people, or space to set each one up outside and do the work when weather permits. It takes a few minutes to seal but several hours to dry and the space and logistics just isn't workable. We do offer relatively low price ($20) seam-sealing as a service if you want it. It is not true, for all the reasons above, that it makes business sense to just tack $20 onto the price of our products and include seam-sealing.
Given the seam-sealing situation, if you feel like the value proposition isn't worth it for one for our shelters, there are a whole lot of other choices from which to choose.
Henry Shires
Tarptent
While I understand the logistics issues for not seam sealing your structure, I wonder, would I become an electrician if I didn't own a latter, or a painter without a paintbrush? You don't sell a structure, you sell the assembled components of a structure at the prices of a complete structure. Then expect the customer to complete the package by seam sealing it... Most people are not do it yourselfer's, which is why there is a market for you in the first place... So to expect them to complete the most essential component of the structure with no experience just seems like your leaving yourself open to many complaints of failures... Rarely, have I seen your average person do a good let alone quality seem seal job...
For what it is, it is an adaquate structure if seam sealed well, and it is light... But i'll happily carry an extra pound for a more predictable structure..
Then avail yourself of those other options knucklehead! Git you one o' them good chinese taped shelters, made by some company owned by some non-hiking knuckleheads who figured out how to reduce their bottom line by moving to a country sans child-labor laws, workplace safety etc, etc. A tarptent is the brainchild of a long trail veteran, who employs other americans to produce a product the "outdoor industry" didn't think people wanted. You need to look in a mirror and bitch slap yourself.
Is this not the foundation of the entire American/World economy? Perhaps we've been mislead to believe a myth all along.!.!:eek:
I commend Henry for his drive to turn his passion into a living. That kind of foritude should be the foundation of our economy and was at one time, so good on him. However, there is weakness and flaws in everything and the op was asking for opinions... You clearly believe in the product and it's great that it works for you... But don't limit other's opinions just because they don't jive with yours... Didn't you learn anything from the Bush years? And calling people knuckleheads on the internet is just poor class... Your clearly bright, don't detract from that..
Hey, thanks for replying, Henry. I was wondering about that myself. Your answer makes sense to me. I'm seriously considering getting the Rainbow before my trip to Iceland this summer. I am wondering about the windworthiness - how does it hold up to serious wind? Iceland can get some wicked gusts that literally knock you down.
I can tell you for certain it will not withstand winds above 70kms/hr which is roughly 40m/hr.. I expect you will experience winds well above this in iceland. Even my double wall free standing tents have difficulty in these conditions, but the difference is they will spring back up after the gusts... With the rainbow you will be forced to exit the tent and re set it... Not something you want to do in storm...
Enjoy your trip... I've always wanted to go to Iceland...
I can tell you for certain it will not withstand winds above 70kms/hr which is roughly 40m/hr..
That's probably true without extra support. The arch will certainly flex. The current version, however, has some extra support features--not sure which one you have--for wind which will extend usefulness into higher wind speeds. The arch sleeve now has pullouts to help stabilize the arch under wind load. For those you will need some extra cording and two stakes although you can also use a "V" cord from each pullout down to the corner stakes. The second feature, for trekking pole users, is the grommet at each end of the cross strut. Those grommets support vertical/near vertical trekking poles and add substantial arch support both vertically (for wind and snow) and horizontally (for wind). Lastly, the included Rainbow arch pole was (until a couple of weeks ago) Easton's lightest and most flexible aluminum tubing. We have now beefed up the tube to 0.340in/8.6mm and it's noticeably stiffer which, in turn, adds wind support. We also carry an even beefier 0.355in/9mm tube which is stiffer and more resilient still (and you can request it--same price).
-H
Then avail yourself of those other options knucklehead! Git you one o' them good chinese taped shelters, made by some company owned by some non-hiking knuckleheads who figured out how to reduce their bottom line by moving to a country sans child-labor laws, workplace safety etc, etc. A tarptent is the brainchild of a long trail veteran, who employs other americans to produce a product the "outdoor industry" didn't think people wanted. You need to look in a mirror and bitch slap yourself.
i'm currently underneath brian's spinnUL tarp. made in new york
i also wear nike's, made in hong kong. likely by slave labor.
this is the internet.
i can see opinions about the tarptents and how i feel about seam sealing are fine as long as they are aligned w/ other people's. heaven forbid i don't see things the same as you
I can't help myself. I want one.
campergrace
06-21-2009, 23:50
I need HELP!!! I have set up my Double Rainbow several times and it still isn't right! I can't seem to get the flooring taught. The bathtub floor is not a tub at all. I am afraid if it rains I will be feeling like I am in a bathtub. I sealed the tent once and I am waiting for it to cure. I will be adding a second coat. I sealed everything on the outside that had a stitch. Was that correct? One of the tension plastic things isn't holding tension. Has that happened to anyone else???? I am taking this tent on a 8 day trip soon and I am getting concerned!!! I am wondering if I shouldn't stake the flooring and then add the center pole?????
thanks,
Grace
fancyfeet
06-22-2009, 00:10
Grace, try sending a PM to Franco. I got a lot of helpful info about Tarptents from him.
brooklynkayak
06-22-2009, 07:16
I can't seem to get the flooring taught. The bathtub floor is not a tub at all. I am afraid if it rains I will be feeling like I am in a bathtub.
... I will be adding a second coat. I sealed everything on the outside that had a stitch. Was that correct? One of the tension plastic things isn't holding tension. Has that happened to anyone else???? I am taking this tent on a 8 day trip soon and I am getting concerned!!! I am wondering if I shouldn't stake the flooring and then add the center pole?????
Hi Grace
Spend some time with it, if you can. Set it up, tear it down, relax, study it and do it again, ...
You'll feel more confident if you do.
Regarding the bathtub,
Check out the way the floor attaches to the tarp, it may be twisted or you may not be staking it correctly.
It is always a good idea to pitch any shelter, bathtub or not, in an area that won't collect water. Many hikers don't use bathtub floors and don't have issues when they pitch correctly. Bathtub floors can leak from a tiny pinhole if you pitch your tent in a depression.
FamilyGuy
06-24-2009, 00:54
Hi Grace
Spend some time with it, if you can. Set it up, tear it down, relax, study it and do it again, ...
You'll feel more confident if you do.
Regarding the bathtub,
Check out the way the floor attaches to the tarp, it may be twisted or you may not be staking it correctly.
It is always a good idea to pitch any shelter, bathtub or not, in an area that won't collect water. Many hikers don't use bathtub floors and don't have issues when they pitch correctly. Bathtub floors can leak from a tiny pinhole if you pitch your tent in a depression.
Yes but the Bathtub floor protects from rain splash.
I spent a few days seam sealing my Rainbow according to directions. It wasn't fun and it still leaks in prolonged rain (about tablespoon pools in 3 different locations after an evening of moderate steady rain). I'm not sure what would happen in a gully washer.
Not sure what I'm going to do now, but I've soured on the aspect of seam sealing a shelter.
Hindsight being 20/20 and all I would have gladly paid someone to seal it because it is a very cool shelter.
I spent a few days seam sealing my Rainbow according to directions. It wasn't fun and it still leaks in prolonged rain (about tablespoon pools in 3 different locations after an evening of moderate steady rain). I'm not sure what would happen in a gully washer.
Not sure what I'm going to do now, but I've soured on the aspect of seam sealing a shelter.
Hindsight being 20/20 and all I would have gladly paid someone to seal it because it is a very cool shelter.
Tell us exactly what you used for seam sealing, how you prepared the mixture, and how and where you applied it to the tent. I'm pretty sure that we can correct whatever mistakes you've made.
I have the Squall and the Rainbow, seam sealed both, didn't find it to be problematic at all, and haven't had any leaks. If I can't help you, then I'm 100% certain that someone on here can. Lots of people with tons of experience are on WB, so don't give up just yet.
I spent a few days seam sealing my Rainbow according to directions. It wasn't fun and it still leaks in prolonged rain (about tablespoon pools in 3 different locations after an evening of moderate steady rain). I'm not sure what would happen in a gully washer.
Not sure what I'm going to do now, but I've soured on the aspect of seam sealing a shelter.
Hindsight being 20/20 and all I would have gladly paid someone to seal it because it is a very cool shelter.
Wow, a $250 leaky shelter... Lucky you...:( I have no doubt there are a number of good folks on here who can assist you in correcting the problem... But I am going to say it one more time, no quality structure should be shipped to a customer without being seem sealed... Not everyone is a DIYer...
And Grace I feel for you, my tarptent is a PITA to keep taught.... I guess just get used to tinkering with it often... No fun, but thats the cost of saving a pound...:o
Flame away weight weenies...
Ever notice that you don't ever see folks squabbling about hammocks like this? Maybe y'all should take a cue from the hanging crowd and get off the ground. You'd probably do a lot less fussing once you finally got comfortable and left the ground to the animals. :rolleyes:
And Grace I feel for you, my tarptent is a PITA to keep taught.... I guess just get used to tinkering with it often... No fun, but thats the cost of saving a pound...:o
Flame away weight weenies...
So. Do you wish to sell it and get a properly taped tent?
So. Do you wish to sell it and get a properly taped tent?
No, because first off it came with my gf, so technically it's not mine to sell, but more importantly, I use it as a teaching tool. Whenever, and this inevidably happens a couple a times a year when one of my hiking friends suggests they want to go lighter weight... I say sure, here try this TT, it will shave an easy pound off your current tent.. After the trip they always hand it back and say, no thanks, i'll stick to my old tent thanks.:-?
In fact, this exact scenario happened on our last outing on Grand Manan Island... My buddy was complaining because his gf wanted to come and the only 2 person tent he had weighted 8lbs... Since he normally hammock camps, he was frustrated to have to carry the extra weight... I offered up the TT, and after the first night of high winds and insane heavy rain coming in off the ocean he tucked it away and just used a tarp as a shelter for the remaining 3 nights... Said he'd rather get eaten alive by mosquito's than mess with that finicky f'ing tent again..
Well I'm going to take a stab at the seam sealing.
I used GE Silicone II (in a tube, available at Home Depot), paint thinner, and a 1" foam brush. I squirted a glob of it in a clean glass jelly jar, then added a tablespoon or so of paint thinner, closed the top, and shook it like hell. I found that to be easier than trying to stir the silicone until it dissolved. I added just enough paint thinner until the solution became just viscous -- about the consistency of honey.
Set up the tent and apply generously to the OUTSIDE seams. Anyplace that has stitching, I 'painted' it with seam sealer. Don't worry about it looking neat. On the inside, I painted stripes on the floor to keep the sleeping pad from sliding around.
The entire thing dried in 15-30 min. on a warm sunny day. And because I'm neurotic and had some leftover mixture, I 'repainted' the ridgeline of the tent.
That's all it took for me. Hope you have better luck if you decide to give it another go.
Tell us exactly what you used for seam sealing, how you prepared the mixture, and how and where you applied it to the tent. I'm pretty sure that we can correct whatever mistakes you've made.
I have the Squall and the Rainbow, seam sealed both, didn't find it to be problematic at all, and haven't had any leaks. If I can't help you, then I'm 100% certain that someone on here can. Lots of people with tons of experience are on WB, so don't give up just yet.
GE Silicone II in the tube (whatever it is that is sold on the tarptent website) + Mineral Spirits.
I used an aluminum can that I cut open and washed out. I squirted a couple of tbsp of the silicone then added a bit of mineral spirits.
I found that if I added too much mineral spirits initially it was difficult and took a long time to mix.
If I added just a big of mineral spirits initially it was much easier to "break down" the silicone. When I got it mixed I added more mineral spirits to the consistancy of olive oil or just a bit thicker as I was advised by the folks at tarptent.
I then took a small foam brush and hit every seam on the outside of the tent. After it dried I reapplied again.
I tested with sprinkler and it leaked.
I went over the ridge and strut again. It rained while it was up. The shelter leaked.
I emailed Henry. He said to hit the inside seams and again on the stut stiching on top, and under the vents. I did so. It rained while set up and it leaked again.
I went over the ridge and strut again and the vents and left for a trip w/out retesting. I saw no rain.
When I got home I set it up to clean. It rained and the shelter leaked again.
I emailed tarptent twice in the past week and have yet to receive a response.
I've added enough sealer and don't wish to add anymore and this point until I know where it is leaking from so their some feeling of efficacy while doing this. Problem is I have no idea where it leaks.
I get three puddles. Water appears to drip down the ridgeline until it hits the inside hook that corresponds to the outside guy out on the ridge. On both side of the tent I get drips coming from where that hook is attached.
I also get a drip from the back vent corner where water accumulates and drips on the floor.
It sounds like you did everything you were supposed to do. I have no other suggestions. Sorry. I've never had a problem with the two that I have, but I've heard from others that Henry is great for customer service. I'm sure he'll help you out.
It sounds like you did everything you were supposed to do. I have no other suggestions. Sorry. I've never had a problem with the two that I have, but I've heard from others that Henry is great for customer service. I'm sure he'll help you out.
I'm not sure what I'm going to do.
I like the rainbow. It is light and roomy. Big enough that I can squeeze one of my children in for a quick overnighter. I haven't had any problems with a taut pitch , not condensation the night I used it. Seemingly the perfect shelter for me, save one small problem. It won't keep out the rain!
I only have a few other nitpicks. With the addition of the vent on the front it is difficult to secure both sides of the vestibule up and out of the way. The tie outs on one side (the side that is staked) seem oddly located (too low) and no matter how diligent I am part of the door always falls down in front of the mesh impeding a full view out. Seems like a simple fix really on tarptents end, or maybe I don't understand.
The rain porch seems configured a little sloppily. I may have to take photos so you can see what I'm talking about. If you match the velcro up and pull the porch taut you end up with a huge gap between the rain porch insert and the door. I can eliminate part of the gap by arranging it so the velcro isn't matched up but there is still a gap there and the configuration isn't as secure. I like the concept, but I'm not sure how effective it could be. Maybe I need to experiment more.
I am disappointed enough that I contacted backcountrygear.com (a retailer that carries Tarptent products that I purchased from) and they agreed to take the tent back for a full refund (very cool of them) if I so chose.
I just don't know what else I would go with at this point in terms of a shelter. I guess I was hoping to hear from Tarptent to see if they had any suggestions but it has been a week and they have not responded to my emails.
It does take a long time to mix, and you meanwhile think it won't work.
I have had good luck on stuff sacks using a throw away natural bristle brush. $0.59.
Was hard for me to get coverage with a foam brush.
Devil's Advocate. Did you totally dry the stitching before reapplying sealer mix? I mean like boneariddesert dry?
Good luck. Keep the faith.
Devil's Advocate. Did you totally dry the stitching before reapplying sealer mix? I mean like boneariddesert dry?
Good luck. Keep the faith.
I had that shelter up for days in my yard allowing it to dry 24 hours between coats.
I invested significant time trying to do it right.
The Rainbow is tricky to do, when I did mine first I did the outside, after letting it dry I turned the tent inside out and did the inside, one side at a time laying it flat on the ground. It does not leak.
The trick (I think...) is to have the mix runny enough so that it penetrates the stitching rather than just coating them .
To mix the silicone I find it easier to start with the amount of pure silicone I can paint on in one go, add a bit of mineral spirits, mix and keep adding. It is a lot harder if you add the mineral spirit at once.
BTW, not that hard to miss completely one stitch line. When I did the Sublite Tyvek I (twice outside and once inside) totally forgot about the one that hold the zip.
The last time we discussed why several brands ship their tents not seam sealed at least one member that was eager to put his boot in ignored the fact that his beloved SMD shelter is also not shipped seam sealed( like all SMD shelters) , and yes we know that one guy that makes sil tarps does seal them but would not be able to do so if he sold hundreds of them every year.
The problem is that has to be done after the shelter is assembled and one at the time, just like you do at home.
By the way, a full coat for the Rainbow should not be much more than 1 oz (once the mineral spirit has evaporated)So about two ounces or so for the recommended (IMHO...) two coats
Franco
The Rainbow is tricky to do, when I did mine first I did the outside, after letting it dry I turned the tent inside out and did the inside, one side at a time laying it flat on the ground. It does not leak.
The trick (I think...) is to have the mix runny enough so that it penetrates the stitching rather than just coating them .
To mix the silicone I find it easier to start with the amount of pure silicone I can paint on in one go, add a bit of mineral spirits, mix and keep adding. It is a lot harder if you add the mineral spirit at once.
BTW, not that hard to miss completely one stitch line. When I did the Sublite Tyvek I (twice outside and once inside) totally forgot about the one that hold the zip.
By the way, a full coat for the Rainbow should not be much more than 1 oz (once the mineral spirit has evaporated)So about two ounces or so for the recommended (IMHO...) two coats
Franco
Franco,
That is exactly what I found while mixing the silicone.
I had a pretty runny mix. It was the consistancy of "olive oil" as recommended by tarptent.
I understand that additional coats don't add that much weight, but I have hit the ridgline and cross bar on several occasions. I don't see any benefit to continuing to haphazardly adding sealant when I don't know where the leak is for sure.
I have already invested considerable effort and time. I had the tent up for days. I would gladly hit it with some sealer again if I had some assurance it would stop the leaking. But it would be nothing more than a guess.
Then I have to spend time with a hose testing or even better wait for a good rain to see if it is weatherproof or not. If not, then back to the drawing board.
I really really like the tent. Its close to exactly what I want/need. I just would like it to be waterproof (and for an easier way to secure the vestibule door, and someone to explain the rain porch).
GoHawks
OK.
Lets start with the easy bit.
The tie outs on one side (the side that is staked) seem oddly located (too low) and no matter how diligent I am part of the door always falls down in front of the mesh impeding a full view out
keep in mind that the images on the TT site are of the same product you have. So as far as the set up is concerned, what you see there is what can be done.
To keep the fly door looking as it does in my pic you need to start from the bottom corner of the "door" and roll it tightly, keeping it in tension, towards the body. If you do that correctly it will stay like that.
The rain porch seems configured a little sloppily
Yes pictures would help, but again have a real close look at the pics on the TT site and see if there is anything different there from what you do.
Strangely enough my Rainbow does not have a rain porch. (it is an early version)
Drips
There are two stitch lines along the apex cross strut. one that holds the black sleeve and the other that holds the grey fabric. Both need to be done.
If that is not it, get one of the children to hold the hose directly above the shelter after you are inside completely sealed up and see if you can spot where the drips come from. No need to have much pressure on the hose.
The easiest way would be to have a tent nerd like me there...
Franco
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Tarptent%20Rainbow/Rainbow-folding-door.jpg
GoHawks
OK.
Lets start with the easy bit.
The tie outs on one side (the side that is staked) seem oddly located (too low) and no matter how diligent I am part of the door always falls down in front of the mesh impeding a full view out
keep in mind that the images on the TT site are of the same product you have. So as far as the set up is concerned, what you see there is what can be done.
To keep the fly door looking as it does in my pic you need to start from the bottom corner of the "door" and roll it tightly, keeping it in tension, towards the body. If you do that correctly it will stay like that.
The rain porch seems configured a little sloppily
Yes pictures would help, but again have a real close look at the pics on the TT site and see if there is anything different there from what you do.
Strangely enough my Rainbow does not have a rain porch. (it is an early version)
Drips
There are two stitch lines along the apex cross strut. one that holds the black sleeve and the other that holds the grey fabric. Both need to be done.
If that is not it, get one of the children to hold the hose directly above the shelter after you are inside completely sealed up and see if you can spot where the drips come from. No need to have much pressure on the hose.
The easiest way would be to have a tent nerd like me there...
Franco
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Tarptent%20Rainbow/Rainbow-folding-door.jpg
That side is no problem for me. Its the other side. The one that has the guyout that is staked.
The product on the intial Rainbow page is not the same product I have. The Rainbow in those photos does not have the apex vent in the front. I am unable to secure both side of the vesibule like in those photos of the Rainbow that is different from the one I have.
This one
http://www.tarptent.com/rainbowRev.html (http://www.tarptent.com/rainbowRev.html)
(08 update)
Franco
I just went and looked at mine (after all this conversation I put it up to get some measurements to determine if I wanted to go a different direction and left it up).
I noticed my Rainbow does not look the same as in the updated photos either. The vesibule in those pictures splits on the left side of the vent when looking at the tent. Mine splits on the right side of the vent. Maybe this accounts for the inability to roll up and secure that side of the vestibule????
Maybe it impacts the rain porch alignment with the other side??? I just know that things don't line up right and seem "off" when comparing the rain porch to what I see on the tarptent site.
Weird.
This one
http://www.tarptent.com/rainbowRev.html (http://www.tarptent.com/rainbowRev.html)
(08 update)
Franco
Right. And I don't see both sides of the vestiblue rolled up and secured in those pictures like the previous pictures of the early model.
You do have the other version. Maybe you should take some shots of your set up and send them to HS.
( I can't remember the difference in the rain porch of your version)
Franco
You do have the other version. Maybe you should take some shots of your set up and send them to HS.
( I can't remember the difference in the rain porch of your version)
Franco
My experience at this point is: a) HS is out and not returning emails, b) my emails are being routed to his spam box, c) for whatever reason he is simply not responding to my emails.
I'm hoping for a or b. I've sent 2 off in the past week and have yet to receive a response. I suppose I could call eh?
Here's a photo of what I mean by the vestibule door hanging down. This is actually secured okay, but other times even more fabric falls down in front of the tent.
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/jcampbell5252/002.jpg
Like this:
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/jcampbell5252/001.jpg
It was tough to get a great picture to illustrate the issue with the rain porch but I took a couple of photos with the help of my son to show the gap.
Matching up the velcro:
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/jcampbell5252/004.jpg
When pulled out for the porch I have a large gap that you can just make out on the right from your view:
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/jcampbell5252/005.jpg
A side shot:
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/jcampbell5252/008.jpg
I can minimize that gap by not lining up the velco tabs. If I line those up there is really quite a bit of loose fabric as you can see. If I offset the velcro when attaching the rain porch there is still a gap and the porch is not very secure in its attachment.
Hope that makes sense.
You can also see where my vesiblue splits on the right side of the vent if you are looking at it.
This is different from the photos on the website.
FamilyGuy
07-11-2009, 11:04
My experience at this point is: a) HS is out and not returning emails, b) my emails are being routed to his spam box, c) for whatever reason he is simply not responding to my emails.
I'm hoping for a or b. I've sent 2 off in the past week and have yet to receive a response. I suppose I could call eh?
I think he is in Seattle at Production. Maybe call the number instead?
I think he is in Seattle at Production. Maybe call the number instead?
I figured he was out based on most people's CS experience, so I didn't want to jump to any conclusions.
Gohawks
Yes Henry is busy at the Seattle factory. Of course when he gets back he will have "a few" E Mails waiting for him.
Vestibule door hanging down
I should have stated before that I had similar problems till I figured out how to fold those doors correctly. In some tents this is more crucial than others .
The first picture is closer to what it should be like but not that close either. Try holding the corner out (as far from the tent as it goes) so that the fabric is in tension . Then roll it inwards as tight as you can towards that tie point.
Rain Porch
The tips of your set up are too far from each other. You can see that the right door panel is pulled out at an angle from where the Velcro strips are, rather than continuing on a straight line.
One Velcro strip is deliberately longer than the other. Don't try to match the bottom of the two strips...
Try this . Hold the corner of the rain porch in full tension up and towards the other side as far as it goes. Now pull the right side of the door towards it holding the bottom of the Velcro strip. Now having the left side (rain curtain) in tension so that it looks flat (not wrinkled) move the right side under it so that the rain curtain overlaps the right side door panel. Now you have the correct angle to stake the poles out at. Once you know that it will be done automatically the next time.
Franco
Some pics stolen from the net...
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Tarptent%20Rainbow/Rainporch1.jpg
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Tarptent%20Rainbow/Rainporch2.jpg
Quickly tried to set up the rain porch. You know you are from Iowa when you use bailing twine. Nevermind the gigantic piece of plastic, I was cutting a groundsheet.
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/jcampbell5252/016.jpg
The next picture does not really show it but I still had a gap where I did yesterday. Not as pronounced but very much still there.
http://i707.photobucket.com/albums/ww76/jcampbell5252/017-1.jpg
That is better. Still needs some fine tuning..
Would be a lot easier if I were there but it looks like the poles are a bit higher than optimal and still a bit further from each other than they should.
The corners of the door panels are pointing up slightly (particularly the one on the right side) . The guyline from that corner to the poles should come out straight or slightly inwards, not outward as it is there.
Also move outwards the tips of the ridgepole (under the yellow sleeve) so that it forms more of an arch rather than a sort of inverted U shape.
Only about one inch each way, it sits better that way.
Franco
Now if you can tell me how to solve the Rubik cube, that will make my day. I can do one face already.
Purchased a double rainbow last month, set it up in back yard a couple of times before seam sealing with little or no problem. The only concern I have is splash ups on the end of tent in heavy rains and wind.
I returned mine.
After spending several hours spread out over several days attempting to seam seal the Rainbow I cut bait.
The final straw really was the lack of response from Tarptent in terms of customer service.
Cool shelter. I just couldn't keep water out of it and in the end there was nothing they (tarptent) could do evidently, and nothing I could do.
GoHawks
When you buy a Tarptent it is clearly stated that you need to seam seal them as you do with many other brands of shelters.
Admittendly the Rainbows are tricky to seal however most manage to do it. There are in fact other shelters that are sold as "waterproof/weatherproof" that need to be seam sealed but that is not made clear at the point of purchase.
For example this is a comment on the Tasmanian Forum from yesterday
Ideally they should supply all extreme series tents (Exped)with Silnet (like Macpac does with it's silicone flies) and alert the customer this needs doing. However I'm happy with how this problem was handled, but for all other Exped Extreme series tent owners I'd suggest buying a few tubes of Silnet if you haven't already (the Sirius II used just over 2 tubes!).
http://bushwalk-tasmania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2380 (http://bushwalk-tasmania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2380)
Again when some suggested that another maybe more carefull application should be done, you stated that you did not want to add more weight to it. 1 oz ?
I think that the main problem was that you were overwhelmed with all the new bits and tried to do every thing at once.
One day you will camp next to another Rainbow owner and see how really easy all of that is once you know (practice), just like riding a bike.
Franco
GoHawks
When you buy a Tarptent it is clearly stated that you need to seam seal them as you do with many other brands of shelters.
Admittendly the Rainbows are tricky to seal however most manage to do it. There are in fact other shelters that are sold as "waterproof/weatherproof" that need to be seam sealed but that is not made clear at the point of purchase.
For example this is a comment on the Tasmanian Forum from yesterday
Ideally they should supply all extreme series tents (Exped)with Silnet (like Macpac does with it's silicone flies) and alert the customer this needs doing. However I'm happy with how this problem was handled, but for all other Exped Extreme series tent owners I'd suggest buying a few tubes of Silnet if you haven't already (the Sirius II used just over 2 tubes!).
http://bushwalk-tasmania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2380 (http://bushwalk-tasmania.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2380)
Again when some suggested that another maybe more carefull application should be done, you stated that you did not want to add more weight to it. 1 oz ?
I think that the main problem was that you were overwhelmed with all the new bits and tried to do every thing at once.
One day you will camp next to another Rainbow owner and see how really easy all of that is once you know (practice), just like riding a bike.
Franco
Franco,
I was WELL aware of the need to seam seal a tarptent.
But I think you are right. I was simply overwhelmed by the tarptent. It was like being in the presence of Jesus Christ himself when I took it out of the box. I could do nothing but bow down and bask in the warm glow that emminated from the holy shelter. I heard trumpets sounding, I saw unicorns bounding. Not the pyramids of Egypt, not the Hanging Gardens of Babylon could compare with the almighty Tarptent Rainbow. ....Well maybe it was like sitting in front of Albert Einstein and trying to understand the Theory of Relativity. I mean that Albert he sure does know his physics, wow! He just lost me on that "speed of light squared" mumbo jumbo. Yes you are right. It was very overwhelming. I wish I could understand. Maybe, just maybe someday I can, but for now I am too much of a simpleton.
Now, back to reality.
I was concerned upon ordering that the Rainbow would be "finicky" in terms of set up. I never found that to be the case in terms of the basic set up. It was simple to set up and achieve a good pitch IMO.
I did find the rain porch a PITA but no biggie. I don't know if I would have used it. I just like to tinker with things like that.
Yes, I realize others have seam sealed w/out issue. Unfortunately I was unable to perform this task effectively even following the instructions provided by Tarptent.
Franco, please spare me the "Again when some suggested that another maybe more carefull application should be done, you stated that you did not want to add more weight to it. 1 oz ?" talk/BS, would ya?
I spent hours over days doing this. I went over some seams half a dozen times. I was unwilling to spend more time putting seam sealer when I had no clue if it would be effective. To do so at that point would have been foolish. Instead I waited to hear suggestions from Tarptent and never did receive a response. Therefore I sent the shelter back. Plain and simple.
When I grow up Franco I only hope to understand the Tarptent as well as you. Lofy goal, I know. But I aim high.
Hopefully then someday we can meet in that big giant Tarptent in the sky.
:rolleyes: