tangle guylines-lightweight solution

[MedicineMan]

had a thought the other night at work. I was tired of pulling out my tarp and finding a tangled mess of guylines. The MacCat is an excellent tarp but with 6 lines total it can created a knotty situation.
When to Walmart and bought 4 or 6 lb 100yard fishing line.
Removed the line.
Drilled holes for the guylines and ridgelines.
Ran the lines through:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3863/password/0/sort/1/cat/500/page/1

Each spool after skeletalizing weighs between 10 and 14 grams so I've added close to 1 3/4 oz. to the pack weight but its nice not to have to untangle the worms before hanging the tarp.

[jlb2012]

why not just butterfly the lines? Yeah I know it takes a little longer in the morning but still you save weight.

[Youngblood]

Medicine Man,

I use a little different technique and have had some success with it. Basically I spool the cords around my hand and begin the stuffing process while one ridgeline is still attached to a tree. The ridgeline cords are stuffed independently from any other cords. The side cords are spooled & stuffed in complementary pairs and are tucked into sections of the tarp as I stuff the tarp into its stuff sack. This keeps the cord clutter limited to pairs of cord and they USUALLY fall out without being tangled. It all goes in the stuff sack pretty quickly without too much hassle. It deploys very easily; you open the stuff sack, grab a ridgeline, tie it off and then the tarp slides out of the stuff sack when you carry it to the second support, with the remaining ridgeline being the last thing that comes out of the stuff sack. Hopefully, the side cords fall out untangled.

I use the same technique with my Speer Hammock. It is MUCH EASIER if you use an oversized stuff sack, otherwise you are 'fighting with the stuff sack' more than you are 'putting your stuff into the stuff sack'.

Youngblood

[Frosty]

why not just butterfly the lines? Yeah I know it takes a little longer in the morning but still you save weight.My thought, also. Or just let them tangle. Untangle them when you put up the tarp. It only takes a few seconds. It seems like the solution (adding weight) is worse than the problem (an extra minute to set up tarp).

[rgarling]

Another thing that can help is to use some snakeskins for the tarp. If you have the tarp hanging on the ridgeline, take the cords at each end, pull the corners up to the ridgeline and tie with an overhand slip knot. Then pull the snakeskins from each end over the tarp towards the middle. this leaves the two middle cords exposed which can be used to wrap around the snakeskined tarp.

[peter_pan]

I lay the ridgeline cords into the roll up prior to use of the Python skins, Side cord I wrap around three fingers until about 3 feet of cord remains, then I wrap tightly aroud the wraps and finish with a slip knot tuck. Takes 10 seconds a cord, never produces knots. deploys witha tug on the slip knot. Weighs nothing extra.

[MedicineMan]

and at TLB where I got this response from
hikerfan4sure:

http://www.exped.com/exped/web/exped_homepage.nsf/WWW-All/F95E130CBC195C7DC1256B20003EFC1B?OpenDocument

scroll down a bit to find the little pouches, brilliant idea, anybody need any fishing line spools?

[SGT Rock]

now that is a good idea.

[Youngblood]

The little sack will work and is clever, but you have to 'bundle' AND 'unbundle' each cord seperately. In principle, I think it works a lot like what is shown on Oware's web site, near the bottom on this link under Atlernate Methods, steps 5-7:
http://www.owareusa.com/tarps.html , but you don't need the little sacks. (I think this is also what Hog On Ice mentioned in post #2.)

Youngblood

[jlb2012]

The little sack will work and is clever, but you have to 'bundle' AND 'unbundle' each cord seperately. In principle, I think it works a lot like what is shown on Oware's web site, near the bottom on this link under Atlernate Methods, steps 5-7:
http://www.owareusa.com/tarps.html , but you don't need the little sacks. (I think this is also what Hog On Ice mentioned in post #2.)

Youngblood

what I was talking about was to wind each line into a butterfly - a technique used in weaving, knitting and other fiber arts to keep lines from tangling - see link for an example from weaving - look to step 5 on the page : example of how to tie a butterfly (http://www.ashford.co.nz/wframes.htm)

[tlbj6142]

Atlernate Methods, steps 5-7: http://www.owareusa.com/tarps.html , but you don't need the little sacks.I saw that once before but couldn't figure out what the heck was going on in the last two pics. I just figured it out. And tested it on my mouse here at work.

[Youngblood]

Yellow Jacket,

I had the same problem and couldn't figure it out the first time I saw it. Hearing you say it took you a while makes me feel a little better. Here is how I think it works. After you wrap some of the cord around the middle of the bobbin you formed with the cord wrapped around your hand, you now have two loops of cord. You pull some of the remaining line through one loop and then over the second loop. It should now hold the bobbin of cord in place very well. I think it's pretty clever.

Youngblood

[tlbj6142]

You pull some of the remaining line through one loop and then over the second loop. It should now hold the bobbin of cord in place very well.The first few times I looked at the pics I didn't notice the cord being pass thru one of the loops. I just thought it was a piece of cord lying under the larger bundle. Once I figured that trick out, the last pic made sense.
I think it's pretty clever.It certainly is. I'm going to try it this weekend when I pack up after car camping at Lakeside, OH with the family.

[Rambler]

For "tangle free" guylines Ed Speer uses Spectra Pulse, 1/16"
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearch?keyword=spectra%20pulse%20line&advanced=YES&searchDeptId=2 Comes in spools of 125' or buy it per foot from Ed`Speer.

[MedicineMan]

glad this turned into a good info share instead of bashing something....anyway lots of good thoughts and me too in trying the 'butterfly'..in my pic the pinkish looking cord is speer anti-tangle, it still gets in a gobbledygook if left in a big pile....
I think next i will try to make the little bags 'exped' style...i'm thinking maybe a pair of baby socks to pattern the size after?

[tlbj6142]

For "tangle free" guylines Ed Speer uses Spectra Pulse, 1/16"
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/SiteSearch?keyword=spectra%20pulse%20line&advanced=YES&searchDeptId=2 Comes in spools of 125' or buy it per foot from Ed`Speer.Knots are knots. While I'm sure spectra cord doesn't tangle as easily as non-sliperry cord, it can still get knots in it. Also most spectra stuff is very difficult to use as it doens't typically hold a taunt hitch very well.

[Youngblood]

Yellow Jacket,

I believe you are right about the slipperyness of unsleeved spectra cord and that it won't hold a taut line hitch. I recall reading something to that effect by someone who recommends and sells spectra cord for tarps. However both the pulse line cord that Ed Speer recommends/sells and Kelty's TripTease line have a polyester sleeve that holds a taut line hitch very well. I think they are less prone to tangle than the typical nylon cord and the primary reason is that they are stiffer and don't wrap around everything quite as easily. Unlike nylon cord they also exhibit very little stretch, which is something I greatly appreciate when I am trying to keep my tarp taut.

Youngblood