View Full Version : Too much food
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 00:16
Ok so I have always been weird about food, and I try to take enough food for the entire hike, instead of counting on being able to resuply.
For my next hike I am hiking the southern 200 miles of the AT and I just weighed my food and it weighs 10 pounds without my Jerky, dried veggies, cheese for my pizza or granola bars, my pack weighs 13 to 15 without water or fuel. Not sure how close these weights are because I am using a house scale since I can not find my cheap ounce scale.
Should I trim 5 pounds of food or knowing that having that much food I will eat more and go through that 5 pounds in the first few days while my body gets back into hiking shape?
If you only have 10 lbs. for 200 miles you are going to get very hungry.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 00:39
I will resupply, but I like having the bare minimum for 200 and I could do it on what I have, I wont but I could lol.
I just weighed the pack on my Wii and it says 31 pounds, and I would still add 4 pounds of water a couple of pounds of fuel and some dry goods that I mentioned earlier. So I am looking at a 40 pound pack loaded. Not sure that is right though, I took out my heavy bag and packed my light bag instead, and most of my gear is very light weight, not ultra but light all the same, so maybe the food weighs more than 10. I know that my clothes only fill half a stuff sack and the rest of the main compartment is now food. I have Pizzas which would be awesome on the trail but one pack of 3 is a pound and I have 2.
Won't the pizzas thaw out? How are you going to bake them?
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 00:54
Won't the pizzas thaw out? How are you going to bake them?
They are dry and stored warm they are little pizzas 3 to a pack and I have taken them on short hikes you just put them on a rock next to the fire, but I just took them out along with a bunch of other stuff, 4 pounds 11 ounces total I removed. Should bring me down to 35 fully loaded on day 1
put them on a rock next to the fire
Good idea!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 01:03
Good idea!I am taking 4 betty crocker warm delight cakes, they only weigh 1 ounce a piece, but I have never tried to cook one on the trail b4. They are microwave cakes and only take 30 seconds to nuke so I think they will be really easy to cook as long as I dont get them to hot. Someone here told me to steam them in my lid pan on top of my pot, so that is what i will try first, on a bonus it will make my green tea and my cake at the same time lol
Why carry 2 pounds of fuel? Just resupply along the way.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 10:27
Why carry 2 pounds of fuel? Just resupply along the way.
First year using this stove, I checked it last night and it is 1.5 pounds, the extra 3/4 of a pound of fuel is probably overkill, but that is one area I am willing to add almost a pound, and while doing the shakedown 4 of us burned through a pound of fuel in one day, and that was not including breakfast. I am sure the kids wasted a lot of fuel so I never got an accurate measure of how much fuel I would go through per day with this system.
What's your daily mileage like?
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 12:57
7 to 11, but I get higher as time goes by. I plan on doing the southern 200 in less than 3 weeks, and I figure I will have a day or 2 of down time so I will need to average 11 miles a day.
7 to 11, but I get higher as time goes by. I plan on doing the southern 200 in less than 3 weeks, and I figure I will have a day or 2 of down time so I will need to average 11 miles a day.
Knowing your daily mileage and allowing 1.5/2.0 lbs of food per day should be helpful.
When you say you're hiking the southern 200 miles - is that starting at Springer? If so, you can start with a real light food bag. Knowing what I know now, I'd send a maildrop to NOC then I'd leave Springer with just enough to get enough to Mountain Crossings and leave there with enough to get to Hiawassee, get enough in Hiawassee to get to Franklin, pick up my mail drop at NOC and see if I couldn't get Jeff or Nancy to shuttle me in to Robbinsville at Fontana. I know this is going into town a lot and would be somewhat expensive compared to carrying food but if it's possible I'd rather buy food when I need it than carry it - that's just me.
Also, when I was in Franklin I was ready for an easy day so instead of taking a zero I got a shuttle up to Wayah Bald and slackpacked back into Franklin. That gave me some miles for the day (instead of a zero) and I got to start the next morning at Wayah Bald which saved me a long uphill climb and I was able to get to NOC that same day.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 13:40
I'm hiking south from CLingman's to Springer, and I hate maildrops lol, just too much depending on other people many of which can not even remember to get gas lol. I'm on a major budget too, I spent over 1000 to fix my truck and that was just parts, add to that, that I am a contractor and the three weeks I was waiting on parts I could not work really hurt. I have done multi weeks with ramen and oatmeal, and am planning on sticking to cheap food (lypton sides, oatmeal, mashed potatoes, dehydrated beef and veggies). I will try to have enough of the home dehydrated goods for the entire hike, and then just resupply my dry goods (rices and noodles) I have an extra 30 pounds floating around my waist and average losing a pound a day when I hike on Ramen and Oatmeal.
*10 lbs. +4.5 lbs + granola bars = 15 lbs
*7-11 miles per day
(for 3 weeks or 21 days and 200 miles = 9.5 miles per day average)
*15 lbs x 16 oz per lb. for 21 days is les than 12 oz.per day of food.
That comes to about 1200 calories per day.
Hope you are planning to loose some weight.
If you do not want to do maildrops carry the food you can not buy the whole way and resupply the rest at the many towns in between. Food weight is worth carrying if it is dry and has at leat 90 calories per ounce.
Would you leave for a car tip without enough gasoline? No. But you would stop along the way and fill up if you were low. Have a Great hike!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 14:11
*10 lbs. +4.5 lbs + granola bars = 15 lbs
*7-11 miles per day
(for 3 weeks or 21 days and 200 miles = 9.5 miles per day average)
*15 lbs x 16 oz per lb. for 21 days is les than 12 oz.per day of food.
That comes to about 1200 calories per day.
Hope you are planning to loose some weight.
If you do not want to do maildrops carry the food you can not buy the whole way and resupply the rest at the many towns in between. Food weight is worth carrying if it is dry and has at leat 90 calories per ounce.
Would you leave for a car tip without enough gasoline? No. But you would stop along the way and fill up if you were low. Have a Great hike!
Yep planning on losing at least 20 pounds, but I would prefer to lose more like 35. I quit smoking a year and a half ago and blew up to 200 from 165. I used to get all sorts of compliments about how nice my body was, and now I am chunky. I exercise on a regular basis and am still strong, and my clothes all still fit, but I am looking forward to losin weight. I lost 10 pounds in 10 days on my last section from Hot springs to Clingman's.
Yep planning on losing at least 20 pounds, but I would prefer to lose more like 35. I quit smoking a year and a half ago and blew up to 200 from 165. I used to get all sorts of compliments about how nice my body was, and now I am chunky. I exercise on a regular basis and am still strong, and my clothes all still fit, but I am looking forward to losin weight. I lost 10 pounds in 10 days on my last section from Hot springs to Clingman's.
Losing the weight isn't the problem - it's keeping it off after the hike that can be tough.
kayak karl
05-31-2009, 15:44
Losing the weight isn't the problem - it's keeping it off after the hike that can be tough.
your right, but losing a lb. a day is not healthy at all. it will cause other problems. just ask your doc, just saying.
johnnybgood
05-31-2009, 16:36
Have you calculated miles between resupply points and water sources?
Also Phoenix , you're gonna burn some serious calories > 6k every day so taking in calories @ 2 hour intervals between meals is important.
Have a blast , wish you the best , Phoenix
your right, but losing a lb. a day is not healthy at all. it will cause other problems. just ask your doc, just saying.
For sure... since most rapid, early weight loss is water there is a real risk of dehydration.
The only way to lose a pound of body weight is to burn 3500 more calories than you consume. To hike, and lose a pound a day (that is to say, on a consistent, daily basis have a 3500 calorie deficit), well... that's not a hike I'd like to be on. (but I wasn't invited anyway :) )
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 17:42
Feels Great!!!!!
Another great hike is 3 days without food, I am sure most of you will scoff, but you aren't even hungry after a day or say and by day 3 you feel amazing. It is funny when you do get to eat you fill up on nothing at all lol. I filled up on half a sandwhich and a few nabs lol
Feels Great!!!!!
Another great hike is 3 days without food, I am sure most of you will scoff, but you aren't even hungry after a day or say and by day 3 you feel amazing. It is funny when you do get to eat you fill up on nothing at all lol. I filled up on half a sandwhich and a few nabs lol
Then by all means... :)
(There's always insect larvae if you get in a pinch!)
daddytwosticks
05-31-2009, 18:00
I'm a section hiker and have not been out on the trail long enough for the infamous "hiker appetite" to kick in. With that said, I still constantly snack, between breakfast and dinner, on trail mix, granola bars, dreid fruit, etc. to keep up my energy. Cutting back on the calories while hiking long distances may ultimatly be good for your waistline, but will your adventure be enjoyable if you suffer from energy loss while climbing those big hills? Good luck and hope you have a good hike. :)
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 18:02
Then by all means... :)
(There's always insect larvae if you get in a pinch!)
Don't think I will ever do the bug thing for survival, they just taste so weird, but I would love to learn all the edible plants along the trail. My grandmother is born and raised in Asheville and she swears that almost every plant in the area is edible, she was also the one who taught me how to see the signs of coming rain in trees.
johnnybgood
05-31-2009, 18:07
You can eat berries and wild mushrooms...just need to know which ones.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 18:17
Do you know about the red berries you see along the trail? So far the only plants I am sure about are black berries blue berries, straw berries, apples, spruce, dandelions, onions, and cat tails
johnnybgood
05-31-2009, 18:34
Red Currant and Raspberries are both edible. Use your eyes and taste to determine if they're ripe for pickin'.
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 18:44
I know the ones I am thinking of aren't rasberries, but guess they could be Red Currant. What ever they are they grow along the trail and seem to bloom in late July early August. One of these days I will take the course and learn them all or I will find a Trail Dawg that knows them already
You can eat berries and wild mushrooms...just need to know which ones.
The mushrooms that grow out of cow patties are pretty good!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 19:29
The mushrooms that grow out of cow patties are pretty good!
Always have enjoyed cunbensis, also like Liberty caps
Always have enjoyed cunbensis, also like Liberty caps
sounds like fun at moments!!
Phoenixdadeadhead
05-31-2009, 22:20
sounds like fun at moments!!Yeppers lots of great times when I was living in Arcata California. That is a must visit for all, I stayed for about 5 months
How many miles per day are you planning on? Let's say you go 20miles/day. That's 10 days of food with no days off. That's 1 lb of food per day! OOH! Cutting it real close already. You will lose body wt. on those cals. and I don't care how much of your food wt. is fat calories! And, you are thinking you want to eliminate more food wt./cals? DON"T DO IT unless you plan on additional resupplying along the way or you plan on writing the latest starvation diet book. Consider, that this advice comes from an UL thru-hiker that takes great measures to get his food wt. down to about 22 oz/ day and maintain daily calorie consumption of around 3000- 3400 cals/day. And, I lose wt. on all my thru-hikes. Also, consider that you state you are going to hike yourself into shape so you may not be able to do 20 miles/day. Not enough food my friend! Unless you have a good reason to mule 10 days, OR MORE, of chow it may be wise to reconsider a resupply somewhere in those 200 miles!!!
Ok so I have always been weird about food, and I try to take enough food for the entire hike, instead of counting on being able to resuply.
For my next hike I am hiking the southern 200 miles of the AT and I just weighed my food and it weighs 10 pounds without my Jerky, dried veggies, cheese for my pizza or granola bars, my pack weighs 13 to 15 without water or fuel. Not sure how close these weights are because I am using a house scale since I can not find my cheap ounce scale.
Should I trim 5 pounds of food or knowing that having that much food I will eat more and go through that 5 pounds in the first few days while my body gets back into hiking shape?
One more thing. Food is food. Why are you separating certain foods from your overall food wt.? Don't get that!
Phoenixdadeadhead
06-01-2009, 01:05
One more thing. Food is food. Why are you separating certain foods from your overall food wt.? Don't get that!
Never said I wasn't going to resupply I just try to be prepared for if I am unable to resupply, and the reason the foods are seperated is I haven't made my bars or my dehydrated goods yet so I could only guess what they weigh. As for calories per day I normally go with just over 1000 a day, which I know for many people sounds extremely low, but I have made it on less and comfortably. Ity is a bit of a binge and purge though since I normally will end up scarfing down what ever i can get my hands on in every town i hit, which is the only time I feel crapy lol, but it all tastes so good. I am currently 200 pounds the lowest I have gotten is 137 other than when i was a kid of course. I will resupply at least 2 times maybe 3, but I want to take as much of the homemade stuff as posibly comfortable, and take enough of my starches (rice meals, oatmeal......) so that I do not run out between towns even if I get a multi day lay over.
Re: food.
As stated above: The average hiker uses (needs to carry?) at least1.5 - 2 Lbs per day. SO if you are average thats 5 to 6.6 days of food. I suspect you will need to resupply somewhere along the way.
Re: weight loss.
I lost about 20 Lbs in 20 days last year on the AT, which is way unhealthy I am sure. And as stated above, the hard part is keeping it off after your hike, I have managed to keep off 8 of the 20 for over a year. But I was always hungy for at least 5 months after getting home. Not "I sure could eat a candy bar now" type of hungry, but a "I could put a Golden Corral out of business today" type of hungry. :eek:
My weight loss was (mostly) unintentional, in part because I seriously loose my appetite when I hike. At least for the first few days, then my stomach is too small to eat much afer that.
Phoenixdadeadhead
06-01-2009, 10:39
Yeah I also lose my appetite or should I say I am too tired to eat lol.
OK Got a better picture now. If you hike the first 200 southern miles of the AT you will have several opportunites to hitch out to or arrive at resupply pts. Check out Jack Tarlin's resupply strategy posted here on WB or check out the thru-hiker companion for what's available.
1000 cals/day will not sustain you when you are not hiking and will certainly not sustain your body when you are hiking!!!
Here is a suggestion. Consider mailing out one or two resupply boxes with the foods that are hard to find or are homemade and supplement your trail grub with easier to find grocery store foods that you like. That system seems more logical to me than toting around day 10's hiking food for the previous 9 days before you eat it and when you also consider that you will probably be going into a town for resupplies anyway.
Never said I wasn't going to resupply I just try to be prepared for if I am unable to resupply, and the reason the foods are seperated is I haven't made my bars or my dehydrated goods yet so I could only guess what they weigh. As for calories per day I normally go with just over 1000 a day, which I know for many people sounds extremely low, but I have made it on less and comfortably. Ity is a bit of a binge and purge though since I normally will end up scarfing down what ever i can get my hands on in every town i hit, which is the only time I feel crapy lol, but it all tastes so good. I am currently 200 pounds the lowest I have gotten is 137 other than when i was a kid of course. I will resupply at least 2 times maybe 3, but I want to take as much of the homemade stuff as posibly comfortable, and take enough of my starches (rice meals, oatmeal......) so that I do not run out between towns even if I get a multi day lay over.
Ok so I have always been weird about food, and I try to take enough food for the entire hike, instead of counting on being able to resuply.
For my next hike I am hiking the southern 200 miles of the AT and I just weighed my food and it weighs 10 pounds without my Jerky, dried veggies, cheese for my pizza or granola bars, my pack weighs 13 to 15 without water or fuel. Not sure how close these weights are because I am using a house scale since I can not find my cheap ounce scale.
Should I trim 5 pounds of food or knowing that having that much food I will eat more and go through that 5 pounds in the first few days while my body gets back into hiking shape?
Source
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=31293
170 pound hiker carrying 30 pounds skin out, on average.
Hiking Energy Requirements for 200 pounds total weight on feet:
(not counting BMR, Camping Activities, or Digestion)
e.g. For 200#, (75 + 2.76 x 25) x 1.1 (factor for shoe & surface effects) = 158.4 kcal/mile
Springer - Neels Gap.....; 31.4 miles + 276'/mile = 158.4kcal/mi = 4874 kcal
Neels Gap - Hiawassee..; 36.1 miles + 328'/mile = 172.7kcal/mi = 6234 kcal
Hiawassee - Franklin.....; 40.0 miles + 242'/mile = 149.0kcal/mi = 5420 kcal
Franklin - Fontana........; 54.9 miles + 294'/mile = 163.4kcal/mi = 8971 kcal
Fontana - Gatlinburg.....; 42.1 miles + 340'/mile = 176.0kcal/mi = 7410 kcal
Total Hiking Energy Requirement = 32909 kcal for 204.5 miles
Basal Metabolic Rate, BMR = 170 pounds x 10 = 1700 kcal/day
Hiking Intensity Factor, HIT = 1.2
Daily Hiking Activity, DHA = 1700 x 1.2 = 2040 kcal/day
(HIT=DHA/BMR, typical range ~ 1.0 to 2.0 depending on fitness level and intentions.)
Total Hiking Days = 32909 / 2040 = 16.1 days
Total Daily Energy Requirements:
BMR = 1700 kcal
Hiking = 2040 kcal (using HIT = 1.2 )
Camping = 800 kcal (varies with camp time, activities, and climate)
Body Burn = 2000 kcal = (varies with how much flesh one is willing and able to part with)
Digestion = (1700+2040+800-2000)x 10% = 254 kcal
Total Daily Energy = 4800 kcal/day
Total Daily Body Energy = 2000 kcal/day
Total Daily Food Energy = 2800 kcal/day
Pounds of Food:
Total Daily Energy = 4800kcal : 45% fat, 40% carb, 15% protien
Fat = 4800x.45/9 = 240g, Carb = 4800x.4/4=480g, Protien = 4800x.15/4=180g
Total Daily Body Energy = 2000kcal : 96% fat, 4% protien
Fat = 2000x.96/9 = 213g, Protien = 2000x.04/4=20g
Daily Food = 37g Fat + 480g Carbs + 160g Protien = 677g
Add 5% for fibre = +34g = 711g
Add 10% of Carbs/Protien/fibre for residual moisture = 48+16+3= +67g = 778g
Daily Food = 778g/454g = 1.7 pounds/day
Total Food Weight = 16.1 days x 1.7 pounds/day = 27.4 pounds
Probably calls for 1-2 resupplies, so you could re-iterate, but you get the idea.
BobTheBuilder
06-03-2009, 11:04
I'm not trying to gross you out, but I have seen way too many idiots pee in the fire ring to put out the fire to ever eat anything cooked on a fire ring rock. I'm not trying to gross anybody out, just think you should know.
Total weight loss in the above example would be:
213g Fat + 21.3g water + 20g Protien + 60g water = 314.3g/day
314.3/454 = 0.7 pounds/day
0.7 pounds x 16.1 days = 11.1 pounds in 16 days
If you did carry it all without resupply:
Body Weight = 170 pounds start and 159.9 pounds finish = 165 pounds avg
Food Weight = 28.7 pounds start and 1.3 pounds finish = 15 pounds avg
That leaves 10 pounds skin out for clothing gear and water.
Adding 10 pounds would increase duration = 210/200 x 16.1 days = 16.9 days
The extra 0.8 days = 1.36 pounds food, so you would finish with none.
For the above hypothetical 170 pound hiker, losing 11.1 pounds along the way
it might be do-able in 17 days without resupply, with a baseload of 20 pounds skin out,
but the starting total skin out weight would be about 50 pounds plus water.
It would be fun to crunch the numbers again for a very lean and fit hiker, using a HIT factor of 2.0, but perhaps not willing to losing any body weight on the trip, or at least not much. Assuming 12% fat at start, maybe 2% loss would be OK, say 3 pounds of fat and 1 pound of muscle. A rough estimate would be 10 days, and 1700+3400+800-1100+480= 5280kcal food/day, but higher in fats, and only for 10 days.
Daily Food:
6400x.45/9=320g= 0.7-0.3 = 0.4 pounds Fats
6400x.40/4=640g= 1.4 pounds Carbs
6400x.15/4=240g= 0.53-0.03 = 0.5 pounds Protien
plus another 0.1 pounds fibre and 0.2 pounds moisture = 2.6 pounds food
Over 10 days that would be 26 pounds, so he is carrying about 3 pounds less food,
but he loses less body weight also, so it all more or less works out. In this case the fitter or more determined hiker with less body weight to lose carries just as much weight on average but does it in 10 days instead of 17 days.
If you walked all the resupplies you could figure out the optimum number of resupplies. You would be adding some distance, but reducing the weight carried considerably so you would be covering more miles per day. I'll leave that as an exercise for the student. ;)