Hiking with Diabetes

[Treker45]

A big surprize to me was I was just diagnoised with type 2 diabetes 2 weeks ago. I have been getting all the information I can on this and have a question on hiking and maintaing your sugar levels. I showed the Dr my hiking foods, dehydrated, and he seemed happy with it, but are there food list by hikers for dealing with this?

Any information would be appreciated as I still plan to continue hiking as I have been.

[DaleTr]

I suddenly was diagnosed with type II also apoprox 6 months ago. Its been a little spooky. The occasional numbness and dizziness. I am finding that exercise is my best friend. I do ensure I carry extra food as all the hiking definitely lowers my blood sugar numbers. I sometimes feel awkward telling someone that I am hiking with that if I look disoriented, etc to please ask me to eat some food. I visit doctor next week and also will share my hiking diet and see if he has recommendations.

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

A big surprize to me was I was just diagnoised with type 2 diabetes 2 weeks ago. I have been getting all the information I can on this and have a question on hiking and maintaing your sugar levels. I showed the Dr my hiking foods, dehydrated, and he seemed happy with it, but are there food list by hikers for dealing with this?

Any information would be appreciated as I still plan to continue hiking as I have been.

My condolances. I've been dealing with Diabetes for 25+ years now and it is no joke. :( They will tell you "You can live an almost normal life!" but that darn word "almost" grows bigger all the time. It preys on your mind. When I am having a bad day at work, etc. and I have this fantasy of running away to a cabin in the woods the fantasy bubble pops with "Oh, I still need insulin!" I went through denial, anger etc. for a while and finally I am at "acceptance". Try to work towards "acceptance" quickly. It will not be easy but once you are there it won't prey one your mind as much and drag you down as badly.

Here are some do's and don't while hiking:

DON'T: Denial. "I am hiking so my blood sugar will not climb." Wrong. It will not be as bad, exercize is good for it, but it it will not go away. There were times in my "denial" phase where I would not take my shots while hiking. I would have to get up 4 or 5 times a night to pee because my blood sugar was so high. Denial is your enemy.

DO: Carry your blood sugar test kit with you and test your sugar levels any time you feel you are not "right". Be aware of your body's signs. Lethargic, excessive urination, high sugar. Nervousness, cold sweats, shakes, and (if really bad) irrational behaviour, low blood sugar. Low sugar is a common problem with hikers. Your doctor will prescribe a method for lowering your blood sugar. It may be pills, shots or an insulin pump. You will need external insulin at two seperate times. When you eat to balance out your sugar intake and ALSO you need a constant "slow drip" all the time. This is called the basal rate. The problem is that while hiking you are burning sugar faster and this slow drip is ofter too much hence you burn off too MUCH sugar and have a low sugar reaction. I can't speak for pills since I never have had them prescribed for me but with injection therapy you will use two types of insulin. Long acting for the basal rate "Slow drip" and short lasting, fast acting insulin for meal times. Since once you have injected your long acting there is no way to "turn it off" the only way to offset a low sugar condition is to eat something with a lot of sugar. (Emergency glucose tablets, orange juice or my favorite, snicker's bars :)). With an insulin pump it is easy to turn it back. You can program a lower, temporary basal rate while hiking. This brings me to my next "Do".

DO: ALWAYS carry emergency glucose tablets (or an equivilant). If you go hypoglycemic (low sugar) and have no way to counter it miles from the trailhead you will be in SERIOUS trouble.

DON'T: Let this condition keep you inside. This would be a crying shame.

Remember this, with whatever blood sugar control method your doctor prescribes, you are essentially trying to control an automatic system for maintaining correct blood sugar levels manually. You WILL get it wrong from time to time. It is inevitable. That is why you should test your sugar ANY time you have any doubt and compensate based on the reading with a shot of fasting acting insulin (high sugar) or a glucose tablet (low sugar). Your doctor will give you the numbers for how much. It may sound difficult now however after a time this "balancing act" will become second nature to you.

Good luck,

BL

[Desert Reprobate]

Also, cuts and abrasions on the lower extremities seem to take forever to heal.

[Old Grouse]

You didn't mention whether you are required to test daily or to take insulin, carefully watch your diet or intake, etc. All I need to do is take a pill twice a day and eat at more-or-less regular times. I like to chew the occasional handful of raw almonds while I hike. It seems to even things out.

[mudhead]

I sometimes feel awkward telling someone that I am hiking with that if I look disoriented, etc to please ask me to eat some food.

No need for feeling awkward. I get goofy if I need water and/or salt.

I know a guy that becomes crabby when he needs crackers. He scowls, tells me to ****, then eats. What friends are for...

[mbanja]

If I start speaking in tongues - tell me to eat a snickers bar.

Here's an easy couple ways I've found to manage it:

Most endocrinologists that I've talked to recommend the same thing - an extra 30g carbohydrate before two hours of exercise.

Also, and this cannot be understated - test at least every two-three hours while hiking even if you think you don't need to. I've felt low and been high and vice versa depending on what time of year and the terrain I've been hiking.

The foods you eat may spike your bs through the roof at night if you cut down on basal pills or insulin. This has always been a problem for me. I use less than half of the basal insulin that I normally need and barely any of my short-acting mealtime insulin. At night (after I gobble down a half pound of elbow macaroni) I have to make sure I've taken enough to cover it.

Simple carbs will help with quick energy. I love fruit leather and snickers. Complex cards and protein will get you through the long haul. You gotta have a good combination of both, otherwise your BS will look like the elevation profile on your trail map.

[TD55]

One thing I have learned for sure, everyones metabolism is different and what works for one person may not work for another. Each person has to find a balance between types of food, amounts of food, exercise (hiking pace) and medication(s). This requires lots of testing, sometimes five or six times a day until you find your "balance". I could say what has worked for me, but there isn't much purpose to that since it may or may not work for another person.
One thing I did find extremely helpful is a book called Diabetes- Fight it with the Blood Type Diet by Dr. Peter J. D'Adamo. When I keep to the foods listed as OK for my blood type and avoid the ones not listed for my blood type my sugar levels are much easier to control.

[HikerRanky]

I was diagnosed with prediabetes the Tuesday before Thanksgiving 2008, and have been successful in controlling mine with diet and keeping an close watch on my glucose level. I hike with my testing kit and carry a decent food supply with me.

When I first got the diagnosis, I started doing a lot of online research. A couple of the best places I found to help me was http://www.rainforesttreks.com/diabetes.asp. The gentleman that has that site is a Type I diabetic but gives a good amount of information on diabetes and nutrition.

The second site is http://diabetic.friendsinhighplaces.org/. This site is for diabetics of all types and really gives me inspiration that I can do anything.

Randy

[man2th]

heres what i carry for my hypoglycemic episodes, the small tubes of cake icing. its a quick fix till i can get a real meal in me....and i know it sux but check your blood glucose often.

[NoGaHiker]

Type 2 here for over 5 years. Test, Test, Test. I found a "balance" by keeping close tabs with testing and paying attention to what I ate, how much, how often and the time/distance I had covered. I have gotten where I can tell when I am getting hypoglycemic by my energy level and can just about keep it dead on by nibbling on gorp, snickers, etc about every hour and eating complex carbs at mealtime. It is kind of like putting gas in the car. When it gets low, I can't go. One other thing, some meters do not give readings in colder weather. So, if you rely closely on your meter, be careful when out in the cold.

[TunesKnits]

I don't have diabetes, but if I were hiking with a friend who did, I would want to know. And I would want to know what to do in case of emergency. Also, if someone came upon you while you were alone and not thinking clearly or feeling well, it would be helpful if you had a med card in an easy to see/obvious spot, or bracelet so they would know. You could put one of those med bracelet tags on a zipper pull on a pocket where you have a med card and emergency food. I think the cake icing is a great idea or one of those Gu or Gel Food packages, kept only for that emergency need. You would not have to shout it to the world, but doing a little prep for your friends seems reasonable. Good Luck! Glad you are going to keep hiking.

Tunes (who does have food allergies requiring hiking with an epi pen and Celiac disease which makes eating on trail challenging...)

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

I don't have diabetes, but if I were hiking with a friend who did, I would want to know. And I would want to know what to do in case of emergency. Also, if someone came upon you while you were alone and not thinking clearly or feeling well, it would be helpful if you had a med card in an easy to see/obvious spot, or bracelet so they would know. You could put one of those med bracelet tags on a zipper pull on a pocket where you have a med card and emergency food. I think the cake icing is a great idea or one of those Gu or Gel Food packages, kept only for that emergency need. You would not have to shout it to the world, but doing a little prep for your friends seems reasonable. Good Luck! Glad you are going to keep hiking.

Tunes (who does have food allergies requiring hiking with an epi pen and Celiac disease which makes eating on trail challenging...)


Trouble is there are two situations that might occur that would cause an unconscious diabetic. Very low sugar and very high sugar. You treat high sugar with insulin, low with sweets. Use the wrong treatment and you stand a chance of killing the diabetic. I would be very hesitant allowing a novice to treat me.

The trick to hiking with diabetes is to be AWARE of yourself. Constantly think about how you are feeling and confirm by using your test kit. Being diagnosed with diabetes does not mean the end of hiking. You just have to learn to be more aware of your body and what it is trying to tell you. If you remain vigelent there is no reason why you should get yourwelf into an emergency situation.

BL

[Lillianp]

Trouble is there are two situations that might occur that would cause an unconscious diabetic. Very low sugar and very high sugar. You treat high sugar with insulin, low with sweets. Use the wrong treatment and you stand a chance of killing the diabetic. I would be very hesitant allowing a novice to treat me.



BL

Well, I guess I'm not technically a novice, as I've been trained and certified as a First Responder, but one of the things we learned was that since our training isn't as in depth as say a paramedic's or a doctor's, that if we couldn't tell the difference between low blood sugar and high, to always give sweets or glucose or something, as it takes longer for the high blood sugar to become as dangerous as low blood sugar does in a short period of time.
For us, giving sugar would either dramatically help the person or it would not harm them as MUCH as not giving sugar to a low blood-sugar person.
...Not saying this is a perfect solution, nor would I necessarily recommend it, but that is what I was taught four years ago.

[take-a-knee]

Well, I guess I'm not technically a novice, as I've been trained and certified as a First Responder, but one of the things we learned was that since our training isn't as in depth as say a paramedic's or a doctor's, that if we couldn't tell the difference between low blood sugar and high, to always give sweets or glucose or something, as it takes longer for the high blood sugar to become as dangerous as low blood sugar does in a short period of time.
For us, giving sugar would either dramatically help the person or it would not harm them as MUCH as not giving sugar to a low blood-sugar person.
...Not saying this is a perfect solution, nor would I necessarily recommend it, but that is what I was taught four years ago.

What you were taught is correct. Pushing some D50 (dextrose)on someone in a diabetic coma won't really screw them up more than they already are, but it'll wake someone in insulin shock wide awake.

There is quite a bit of confusion in this thread about the difference between Type I and Type II diabetes. The former is caused because your pancreas isn't making enough (or any) insulin. The latter is caused by prolonged consumption of refined carbohydrates, the body's cells down regulate insulin receptors and it simply doesn't work any more to allow glucose to enter the cells, or your pancreas can make enough insulin for a 200# body and you now weigh 400#.

Type I- high blood sugar, low insulin

Type II- high blood sugar, high insulin

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

Well, I guess I'm not technically a novice, as I've been trained and certified as a First Responder, but one of the things we learned was that since our training isn't as in depth as say a paramedic's or a doctor's, that if we couldn't tell the difference between low blood sugar and high, to always give sweets or glucose or something, as it takes longer for the high blood sugar to become as dangerous as low blood sugar does in a short period of time.
For us, giving sugar would either dramatically help the person or it would not harm them as MUCH as not giving sugar to a low blood-sugar person.
...Not saying this is a perfect solution, nor would I necessarily recommend it, but that is what I was taught four years ago.

Interesting. Still learning new things after all these years. Thank you for that tidbit. I'm curiuous though, since diabetes is so common anymore why are not a glucose test kits part of yout "kit"?

BL

[Treker45]

Thanks for all the info, I am still working through the acceptance stage I guess still. I met with a dietitian and he was great explained a lot on carbs and such. I met with my hiking partners this weekend for our annual hike planning meeting and I informed everyone in case someone would be concerned about hiking with me. Intresting reaction.........the others talked about high blood pressure and other ailments, so I didn't feel so bad. I lost some weight and am on the "pill" and my numbers have dropped. I think I will have more of a concern of low sugar levels while hiking and am carrying tablets and a meter to be sure.

I don't plan on giving up hiking that woudl kill me for sure!

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

Thanks for all the info, I am still working through the acceptance stage I guess still. I met with a dietitian and he was great explained a lot on carbs and such. I met with my hiking partners this weekend for our annual hike planning meeting and I informed everyone in case someone would be concerned about hiking with me. Intresting reaction.........the others talked about high blood pressure and other ailments, so I didn't feel so bad. I lost some weight and am on the "pill" and my numbers have dropped. I think I will have more of a concern of low sugar levels while hiking and am carrying tablets and a meter to be sure.

I don't plan on giving up hiking that woudl kill me for sure!

There you go! And remember, you can always tell everyone that you are extra sweet! :)

[LaurieAnn]

Hey guys... I was diagnosed in late January. I was pergnant at the time (miscarried) and went straight on Lantus and NovoRapid. By the end of April, with some dietary changes and weightloss, I managed to get off the NovoRapid and onto Glucophage but I still take the Lantus (albeit a small dose of between 10 and 15 units a night). \

In less than two weeks I go on my first wilderness trip since being diagnosed. My endocronologist suggested that I cut the Lantus back considerably the nights before I hike.

So... my questions for those of you using a basal insulin.... are...

How do you keep it from getting to warm/cold or spoiling?

Did you find that during hikes you had to discontinue taking the basal insulin?

[mbanja]

I have to cut my lantus in half and i use almost no novolog except for the huge carb depthcharge dinner. Your experience will vary of course. I take 26 units of Lantus every night. On the trail I take about 13-15 depending on how many hours I'll be hiking (usually high teens mileage over 9 hours).

Your insulin is fine at room temp for about a month. If you really want to get creative you could just put it in an empty pill bottle (protection from breaking) and stow it with your platy or camelbak. It would cool it down a couple degrees, but it's really not necessary for section hiking.

Gonna catch heck for this one, but chances are that if you increase your exercise regimen, and don't freak your system out you may well be off insulin and pills in a while. Type II is reversable for many people, but as Type I- I may be just jealous and speaking out of place. Diabetes is incredibly individual, it would be really great get a major hospital to put together a grant to fund a whole bunch of diabetic thru-hikers just to measure changes in insulin intake. Not gonna happen....

[LaurieAnn]

I am on something called Lantus Solostar - which won't fit in a pill bottle. I really hate the disposable "pens" (that's the tree hugging planet saving part of me). I do like that it seems to be a very level basal insulin without peaks. I have a cooling system (gel filled bag) so maybe I should take that?

I have to agree with your comments and you won't catch heck from me. I have to say that I am very fortunate that this is not Type I. I am certainly able to deal with things much easier than the average Type I because I can lessen my need for injected insulin and go into a remission of sorts.

You are right about it being individual. I find even day to day it changes for me - weightloss, activity, stress and all seem to cause variances... even hydration/dehydration seem to affect the numbers.

In a few short months I've gone from taking 10 to 15 units of NovoRapid per meal plus 30 units of Lantus to the glucophage and 1/2 the Lantus. I've brought my A1C at being diagnosed from 17.5% to 5.2% just with some small lifestyle changes (like not meal skipping and such). My goal is to be off all meds within a year. My doc can't promise that it is something that can happen but I think it is a possibility. He was extremely surprised that my numbers came down so low so fast (just about 3 months) but I wasn't about to mess around with this. I have a little boy and husband who need me to be healthy... and we also have a family history of heart disease... which was why I was trying to shed the weight in the first place.

I'm not going to sugar coat it... my diabetes result was from a combination of family history (paternal Grandfather was an early patient of Dr. Best) and obesity. About 13 years ago I weighed in at over 365 pounds. I took up backpacking and paddling as part of a major lifestyle overhaul. I have lost 168 pounds (I'm six feet tall) but I did it slowly over the years. My doctor was surprised that I wasn't diabetic long before this. I've accepted that I was part of the reason I ended up here.

In a way, by discussing this, we are doing our own study and learning by experience which works for each individual. The trip I am about to embark on is a paddling trip with some hiking on portages and a good day hike or two planned in the mix. This will be leading up to some more strenuous backpacking later in the season. I'm being paranoid - but I just wanted to start back into it slowly because I am a little afraid.

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

So... my questions for those of you using a basal insulin.... are...

How do you keep it from getting to warm/cold or spoiling?

Did you find that during hikes you had to discontinue taking the basal insulin?

Modern insulins are OK at room temp for some time. Just try to prevent leaving your pack in the sun with your insulin inside and you will be fine.

Do NOT eliminate your basal insulin. That would be a serious mistake. (Don't ask how I know this. :eek:) Remember your basal rate is what you body needs to just function. It has nothing to do with food intake. That is an entirely different issue. Think of there being two seperate plans, one for normal function (basal) and one for carb intake.

Remember you are trying to control a normally automatic function manually. Your prescribed basal rate tries to fit to your normal daily life. When you are hiking and not snacking this is not the norm. You will be burning more sugar than usual and the normal basal rate will be too high.

First time you hike, try reducing your basal rate to 50%. After a couple hours of hiking, check your sugar levels. If they are creaping up, you reduced basal too much. Down, you didnt reduce it enough. Keep at this and eventually you will find the correct rate for your body as you hike.

Take care,
BL

[LaurieAnn]

Thanks Buzz.... I was really having a difficult time wrapping my head around the basal end of things. Your explanation is a big help.

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

Thanks Buzz.... I was really having a difficult time wrapping my head around the basal end of things. Your explanation is a big help.

Glad I was able to help some. :)

[BooBoo]

I'm hypoglycemic like my father and I have lots of diabetics on my moms side of the family. Here's my two cents: I don't know a lot about insulin dosage but I have learned a bit about diet..

Avoid white flour as much as possible. Go for Whole Wheat Pasta. Get the litte dried sauce packets and top it off with some parm cheese as an alternative to Liptons.... Don't even think about Ramen Noodles....

When hiking I like to start the day with Grape Nuts.Peanut butter,peanuts and nuts in general will help to bring you BS up slowly and will help to keep it from spiking. There seems to be some evidence that a diet rich in beans.nuts and legumes will help to stabilize BS. You might want to ask for a referal to a Nutrionist or Dietician.

[TOW]

Also, cuts and abrasions on the lower extremities seem to take forever to heal.and bug bites too.....

[Marta]

It's not quite hiking, but right now the Race Across America is going on. There are a couple of teams of diabetics: a Type I team and a Type II team. In the video archives, there's a brief interview with the support crew. They mention that the riders are monitoring their blood sugar.

As of right now, Team Type I is either about to win, or has already won, the 8-Man team division.

http://www.raceacrossamerica.org/raam/rcrankraamteam.php?s_N_Year_ID=2

PS--There's also a team composed of four men >75 years old. Those guys rock! One of them is 85 years old.

[Sleeps_With_Skunks]

I have insulin resistance (hyperinsulinemia). My body makes too much insulin. They caught it about 7 years ago. I'm on 1500 mg of glucophage a day.

I have found some things to help me in hiking. I make sure my meals are filling and balanced. Walgreens makes a test kit that is the size of a film canister...the meter is in the lid and the test strips are inside and I add lancets to the container to do my sticks. I put a piece of paper into my container to split the inside in half...used stuff on one side and unused on the other makes for easy carrying.

One summer I underestimated the weather and caught caught in high heat and sweat out my sugars. Since then I carry GU gels with me. They taste better than the glucose tabs, they are thin enough to swallow like a liquid unlike some of the other sport gels, and they work as fast as fruit juice. One GU to get up hills, 3 gu's on hot climbing days and if I start to snap at Bearpaw.

My doctor said hiking is fine, but recogonize the signs that my sugars are low and test at least 3 times a day if it was hot out or I was really exerting my self.

[Treker45]

I did a long weekend of hiking in Shenandoah and felt real good during my hiking. I did watch my sugar levels but was able to keep my levels in the low 100's (135) while eating trail mix between meals. The weight loss and more exercise seemed to help out.

A question though, I get lower readings for my nightly "after eating levels" then for my nightly "fasting level" in the morning. Is that the norm?

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

I did a long weekend of hiking in Shenandoah and felt real good during my hiking. I did watch my sugar levels but was able to keep my levels in the low 100's (135) while eating trail mix between meals. The weight loss and more exercise seemed to help out.

A question though, I get lower readings for my nightly "after eating levels" then for my nightly "fasting level" in the morning. Is that the norm?

It probably just means you need some adjustments to your dosage. It's a never ending process. My personal insulin requirements go up in the winter since I am less active. Just keep on monitoring yourself and discuss any changes to your dose with your doctor first.

BL

[Jack Tarlin]

I advise some of you guys to contact my friend Bfitz, who posts here a lot, who is not only very informative on this subject, but who is also always ready to help folks out and answer their questions.

[mweinstone]

hikeing with fasting hypoglycemea was just a matter of eating enough and often. but as an adult hiker, and with fasting turned to reactive hypo, its now a matter of not eating the wrong things. bfitz showed me a few things about my bodys over production of insulin i never would have learned. he knows this topic thru. i used to think when my sugar dropped to eat proteen. because it was sugar that caused the drop how could more help?! but bfitz exsplained how . and i learned the math from him. how 4 grams of glucose raises my sugar 20 points and so on. and he knows carbs . all the lables lie. some are rated low glyceemic foods but only due to portion. bfitz again. when im older ill need to take insulin. im glad i have my bfitz. hes the sopurce for this disece.

[Les Rust]

I am new to Whiteblaze, although I've been hiking the Smokies and Southern Appalachians since a boy. I am also somewhat new to being Type II diabetic. I, too, have had that question about morning, fasting readings being higher than when I went to bed. My internist said that it is probably due to our daily cycle in which the body starts to raise its energy in anticipation of the activities of the day. It is not uncommon at all for me to have my medications (still pills at the moment) and then be reading quite a bit lower at lunch time. I have not had any trouble to this point with my blood sugar while hiking; it tends to run high which is what I normally expect. I am interested in this thread and in continuing to learn how others are hiking and handling this condition.

[LaurieAnn]

Well... I'm back. It seemed like I was going too low the first day or so... I started (as Buzz suggested) with a half dose... it was just about right but I had increase it as one of our party became injured and we had to stay put for a few days. It all worked out great though.

Thanks to all for the advice. I really appreciated it.

[superman]

I'm diabetic now but I've contolled it with diet and exercise. I don't take any medication yet. When I hiked the AT in 2000 I ate everything and had no diet limitations. I'm thinking of re-hiking the AT next year and I'm concerned about my diet. I seem to have worked out a diet that works for me at home but I have no idea what will happen on a thru hike. Due to the regular high exercise level will I be able to eat everything again? If I eat the way I do at home it won't be enough to power a hike?:-?

[TD55]

I'm diabetic now but I've contolled it with diet and exercise. I don't take any medication yet. When I hiked the AT in 2000 I ate everything and had no diet limitations. I'm thinking of re-hiking the AT next year and I'm concerned about my diet. I seem to have worked out a diet that works for me at home but I have no idea what will happen on a thru hike. Due to the regular high exercise level will I be able to eat everything again? If I eat the way I do at home it won't be enough to power a hike?:-?
You will have to do your adapting, balancing, figurin' out by testing a bunch as you go all over again. At least I always have to. It's something you have to stay on top of from day to day. You reallly can't tell how your system will react until you put it to the test. The difficulty for me is the rationing of grub and saying no when the level is high. You want to lighten your food weight and eat, but the tester says no.

[superman]

You will have to do your adapting, balancing, figurin' out by testing a bunch as you go all over again. At least I always have to. It's something you have to stay on top of from day to day. You reallly can't tell how your system will react until you put it to the test. The difficulty for me is the rationing of grub and saying no when the level is high. You want to lighten your food weight and eat, but the tester says no.


Crap, I had fantasies about all you can eat buffets, big snicker bars, alcohol on town stops. Son of a Biscuit, Everything is Real:(

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

Well... I'm back. It seemed like I was going too low the first day or so... I started (as Buzz suggested) with a half dose... it was just about right but I had increase it as one of our party became injured and we had to stay put for a few days. It all worked out great though.

Thanks to all for the advice. I really appreciated it.

Cool. :) I hesitated giving advice like that because everyone's diabetes is so different. I'm glad I was able to help out!

BL

[LaurieAnn]

The big thing was that it gave me a starting point Buzz. Being fairly new to all this I had no idea where to start and the doctor was so vague. I noticed that on the hotter days I needed less too. Interesting how it all works.

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

The big thing was that it gave me a starting point Buzz. Being fairly new to all this I had no idea where to start and the doctor was so vague. I noticed that on the hotter days I needed less too. Interesting how it all works.

Yes, it definately is a moving target. Once you get a good setup for your condition do not think you have it nailed down. Mine changes bassed on how active I am, time of the year (less active in winter) and probably the phases of the moon and amount of solar wind striking the earth. (Sometimes it changes and I have no idea why.) The best thing to do it learn the check yourself frequently and learn to make small adjustments based upon what your readings say.

Good luck with your doctor too. I finally was convinced to go to a specialist and I learned more from her in one visit than I had learned in the previous 25 years from all my other doctors. I'm not trying to imply that your doctor will be bad, just be open to any other sources if they present themselves to you.

BL

[mweinstone]

bfitz taught me that the liver releases sugar when the levels drop to low in an effort to save you. and its not only bad, it can cause high readings when you know your plumetting. its just auto canabalistic sugaring thats taken place. little things like this give the person with sugar disorders or insulin if you will, a better understanding . i hover in the 60's and rarely get to 90. it causes brain damage to be low or high all the time. when im at fourtys and fiftys i eat glucose pills. when hikeing my sugar stays at perfect 90 unless i eat hikeing foods witch i do sometimes and then pass out. i eat spirulinna and whole foods to deal.

[LaurieAnn]

Yes, it definately is a moving target. Once you get a good setup for your condition do not think you have it nailed down. Mine changes bassed on how active I am, time of the year (less active in winter) and probably the phases of the moon and amount of solar wind striking the earth. (Sometimes it changes and I have no idea why.) The best thing to do it learn the check yourself frequently and learn to make small adjustments based upon what your readings say.

Good luck with your doctor too. I finally was convinced to go to a specialist and I learned more from her in one visit than I had learned in the previous 25 years from all my other doctors. I'm not trying to imply that your doctor will be bad, just be open to any other sources if they present themselves to you.

BL

I'm finding that it is most definitely a moving target and being a woman (hormones) plays a role in that too. I'm fortunate that I went straight to a specialist in diabetes/internal medicine and he's been wonderful. I also found the book, Think Like a Pancreas, a great resource.

I generally have been able to keep my levels between 60 and 140 consistently - so far so good. It is very rare that I go above 140 but it has happened once or twice.

[mweinstone]

in my opinion a raw green foods diet can cure all but the worst cases. cure!the rage of diabetees is only due to a sociaty of sugar junkeys. junkeys i tell you!

[alalskaman]

This is a good thing to discuss...the numbers of people with diabetes are growing all the time. So much depends on what kind of diabetes you have, and how you control it. Insulin users vs oral meds vs diet/exercise, require different approaches. FWIW here's my experience. I was diagnosed 43 years ago..since I was young and not fat, they thought I was T1 and put me on insulin. Later, they found I responded to oral meds, so changed diagnosis to T2.
For many years I took various iterations of sulfonylurea pills, goosing up my insulin production and enabling me to burn carbs for energy. Unfortunately they also caused very frequent low sugar episodes. My hiking strategy at the time, for many years, was to carry lots of carb-rich stuff, like dried fruit, pilot biscuits, candy, etc. It mostly worked ok., tho had to stop and feed the hypo demon every 40 minutes or so.
Finally got tired of this routine, both on the trail and at home. Read some lowcarb books, and decided if I can't properly metabolize sugar and carbs, maybe I shouldn't base my diet on them.
So I cut out all grains, potatoes, pasta, fruit, whatever spiked my bg's. For 6 years now, meals are a protein source, (meat, fish, poultry) and some low glycemic vegetable (broccoli, cauliflower, green beans etc) and plenty of fat.I had to stop taking the pills. Post meal readings used to be 200 to 300, now rarely top 100. No more hypos, either, never going below 75 even if I skip breakfast and don't eat until 6. Last A1c was 5.1, down from 8.3 in the pill/sugar days. Needless to say I am happy and feel better than I did in my 30's.
Question is, what about hiking? Well, it is different now...without the pills I cannot grab a handful of dried apricots and get a burst of energy. I just go up to 400 and feel like lying down beside the trail and passing out. So I try to eat pretty much the way I do at home, subject to the fresh food limitation. Spam and pouched salmon or tuna, cheese, nuts, olive oil, home-dehydrated vegetables, that sort of thing. And I go slowly. Without usable glucose reserves in liver or muscles, I can only do the slow-turnover of fats.
Still, it works. The other day I did one of the same hikes I did in the pill days, and did the whole 14 miles with only one lunch stop. I could recognize all the logs/rocks where I used to have to stop and fuel up.
Don't know if my peculiar approach would be palatable to anybody else, but I like it.

[LaurieAnn]

My concern with the high protein - high fat diet is heart disease. What are your thoughts on this alalskaman?

[superman]

This is a good thing to discuss...the numbers of people with diabetes are growing all the time. So much depends on what kind of diabetes you have, and how you control it. Insulin users vs oral meds vs diet/exercise, require different approaches. FWIW here's my experience. I was diagnosed 43 years ago..since I was young and not fat, they thought I was T1 and put me on insulin. Later, they found I responded to oral meds, so changed diagnosis to T2.
For many years I took various iterations of sulfonylurea pills, goosing up my insulin production and enabling me to burn carbs for energy. Unfortunately they also caused very frequent low sugar episodes. My hiking strategy at the time, for many years, was to carry lots of carb-rich stuff, like dried fruit, pilot biscuits, candy, etc. It mostly worked ok., tho had to stop and feed the hypo demon every 40 minutes or so.
Finally got tired of this routine, both on the trail and at home. Read some lowcarb books, and decided if I can't properly metabolize sugar and carbs, maybe I shouldn't base my diet on them.
So I cut out all grains, potatoes, pasta, fruit, whatever spiked my bg's. For 6 years now, meals are a protein source, (meat, fish, poultry) and some low glycemic vegetable (broccoli, cauliflower, green beans etc) and plenty of fat.I had to stop taking the pills. Post meal readings used to be 200 to 300, now rarely top 100. No more hypos, either, never going below 75 even if I skip breakfast and don't eat until 6. Last A1c was 5.1, down from 8.3 in the pill/sugar days. Needless to say I am happy and feel better than I did in my 30's.
Question is, what about hiking? Well, it is different now...without the pills I cannot grab a handful of dried apricots and get a burst of energy. I just go up to 400 and feel like lying down beside the trail and passing out. So I try to eat pretty much the way I do at home, subject to the fresh food limitation. Spam and pouched salmon or tuna, cheese, nuts, olive oil, home-dehydrated vegetables, that sort of thing. And I go slowly. Without usable glucose reserves in liver or muscles, I can only do the slow-turnover of fats.
Still, it works. The other day I did one of the same hikes I did in the pill days, and did the whole 14 miles with only one lunch stop. I could recognize all the logs/rocks where I used to have to stop and fuel up.
Don't know if my peculiar approach would be palatable to anybody else, but I like it.

I'm on the same diet that you are and it seems to be working while I'm at home. Since I'm new at it I'm still trying to figure it out. I haven't hiked since being diagnosed with diabetes. It seems a bit scary to do what I used to take for granted.

[Buzz_Lightfoot]

My concern with the high protein - high fat diet is heart disease. What are your thoughts on this alalskaman?

Take low-dose aspirin daily. My doctor has put me on this to "protect your heart".

BL

[LaurieAnn]

If only protecting one's heart was that easy. I've seen what heart disease can do.... father, sister, brother and two nephews. It scares me a great deal. That said, I will look into this high protein bit a little more - high protein doesn't have to be high fat.

I know I am asking a lot here... but would you mind sharing a list of what you eat in a typical day with me (privately if that suits you better). I'm fairly new to the diabetes thing and am quite interested in alternatives.

[HikerRanky]

If only protecting one's heart was that easy. I've seen what heart disease can do.... father, sister, brother and two nephews. It scares me a great deal. That said, I will look into this high protein bit a little more - high protein doesn't have to be high fat.

I know I am asking a lot here... but would you mind sharing a list of what you eat in a typical day with me (privately if that suits you better). I'm fairly new to the diabetes thing and am quite interested in alternatives.

A typical day of hiking finds me eating a breakfast of stone ground oatmeal with cinnamon mixed in with a small packet of honey and some raisins for good measure...

Lunch finds me eating a whole wheat whole grain tortilla with SmartBalance peanut butter spread on it and some homemade GORP (raisins, peanuts, banana chips, almonds, and a couple of cashews). I will also eat some dehydrated apple slices.

Dinner usually finds me eating the tortillas again with a packet of this (http://www.minimus.biz/detail.aspx?ID=8798) on there. Make up a small whole grain brown rice with broccoli, cauliflower and green beans in a FBC type arrangement. Season with some olive oil...

Eating like this keeps my BG down in the 95 - 105 range on my meter....

Hope this helps!

Randy

[alalskaman]

Laurie Anne - with your family history I can see why you are concerned. Your diet decision has to be made by you. Bear in mind, though, that many many studies show an improvement in the lipid profile on various lowcarb regimes. Certainly the goes up, and the triglycerides down..some cardiologists consider these markers more important than ldl.

Also, don't forget that high blood sugars, both as in A1C averages and postprandial spikes, are powerful risk factors for heart attack.

In my own case, when I was on the ultra healty Ornish diet, my HDL was 15 (dangerously low by most reckoning) and my triglycerides were around 400. Now after 7 years of "no bread no rice no pasta no corn no grains no potatoes etc" my HDL is 61 and triglycerides 75.

The ldl is high though...when my wife's cardiologist heard the way I eat, he was "absolutely, uniquivically" convinced that I absolutely HAD to have advanced artery disease. So much so that he put me on his waiting list for angiography, stenting and "probably" a bypass. Just to be sure, he did a "Stress MIBI." Which if you don't know, involves an injection of radioactive material which accumulates in the heart muscle and makes it scannable. Then a resting picture and a treadmill stress test and another picture. In my case, my max heart rate was far above their prediction, and there was NO sign of any obstruction, blood starved heart muscle, previous infarctions, whatever. Completely normal. Boy was he p.......d.

Still, the family history issue is significant. In my own case, maybe I only get away with this because NOBODY on either side of my family has ever had a heart attack. So I frankly worry more about cancer and alzheimers than about heart issues. I'd rather fall over on a trail somewhere than drool in a diaper. Not to be morbid. But I just was, wasn't I. Sorry.

We diabetics are in a way fortunate - our disease is not the worst chronic condition one can get...but in many ways we are kind of screwed...control our bg's rigorously and we may hurt our lipids...take lots of meds, have hypos and maybe side effects. But here we all are, muddling along. Could be worse.

[LaurieAnn]

Laurie Anne - with your family history I can see why you are concerned. Your diet decision has to be made by you. Bear in mind, though, that many many studies show an improvement in the lipid profile on various lowcarb regimes. Certainly the goes up, and the triglycerides down..some cardiologists consider these markers more important than ldl.

Also, don't forget that high blood sugars, both as in A1C averages and postprandial spikes, are powerful risk factors for heart attack.

In my own case, when I was on the ultra healty Ornish diet, my HDL was 15 (dangerously low by most reckoning) and my triglycerides were around 400. Now after 7 years of "no bread no rice no pasta no corn no grains no potatoes etc" my HDL is 61 and triglycerides 75.

The ldl is high though...when my wife's cardiologist heard the way I eat, he was "absolutely, uniquivically" convinced that I absolutely HAD to have advanced artery disease. So much so that he put me on his waiting list for angiography, stenting and "probably" a bypass. Just to be sure, he did a "Stress MIBI." Which if you don't know, involves an injection of radioactive material which accumulates in the heart muscle and makes it scannable. Then a resting picture and a treadmill stress test and another picture. In my case, my max heart rate was far above their prediction, and there was NO sign of any obstruction, blood starved heart muscle, previous infarctions, whatever. Completely normal. Boy was he p.......d.

Still, the family history issue is significant. In my own case, maybe I only get away with this because NOBODY on either side of my family has ever had a heart attack. So I frankly worry more about cancer and alzheimers than about heart issues. I'd rather fall over on a trail somewhere than drool in a diaper. Not to be morbid. But I just was, wasn't I. Sorry.

We diabetics are in a way fortunate - our disease is not the worst chronic condition one can get...but in many ways we are kind of screwed...control our bg's rigorously and we may hurt our lipids...take lots of meds, have hypos and maybe side effects. But here we all are, muddling along. Could be worse.

Ah yes... the radioactive dye. My sister sweelend up and had a severe allergic reaction to that. Once we knew she was going to be okay we gave her a big teasing about the swelling.

I will say one thing... there are things that I can eat on occasion that I thought I would never be able to have. Like the occasional bit of dark chocolate... but it's about just having a tiny bit and working it into what I have set as a daily carb limit.

I actually ignored the diabetes education centre nurses because I found they were pretty clueless. They wanted me to eat 16 servings of carb a day and that wasn't including carb from most veggies... just corn, parsnips, potatoes and sweet potatoes had to be counted. It seemed way too high to me so I modified the amounts.

At the time I was dealing with the education centre my A1C was over 17% and within a few months doing things on my own I brought it down to about 5.2%. The stupid nutritionist there couldn't tell me about lentils, quinoa, or the other low glycemic carbs that our family eats. So I fired the education centre and am learning this on my own. I figure 5.2% is a good number... that said, I was on bolus then and now I am on the glucophage so maybe that will change. I go for my next A1C in early November.