View Full Version : Sign of the times - State Parks Closing to save taxes
Wise Old Owl
06-01-2009, 21:19
Just announced today on the drive by media - 35 Pennsyslvania State parks will be closed at the busiest time of the year. Layoffs for park & state employees. This will affect the tourism revenue for the state as well. Appears Govenor Rendell is following ideas from the Govenator.
http://www.state.pa.us/papower/cwp/view.asp?A=11&Q=465111
http://www.mercurynews.com/ci_12481195?source=most_viewed
Shall we post a link to an old thread started when we went down this path before?:rolleyes:
Keep in mind, State Game Lands are not likely to be affected, nor is NPS corridor. As for the remainder of the AT, I don't expect much impact, but am interested to see what comes of this decision.
Desert Reprobate
06-01-2009, 21:34
Arnie is an idiot. We should have voted for the stripper. The parks would be self sustaining if they would stop stealing the money.
Three of the 4 State Park properties (Caledonia, Pine Grove Furnace, Ibberson Conservation Area) along the A.T. are not on the current hit list. Although Swatara State Park (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/swatara.aspx) is on the hit list there don't seem to be any facilities to close at this Park. I suppose it's possible that the A.T. parking area near the junction of PA 443 and PA 72 might be blocked off, but I don't know whether this is in State Park or NPS jurisdiction.
The current hit list includes eight of the nine state parks along Mid State Trail (http://www.hike-mst.org) - including Little Pine and Poe Paddy that I've seen others on here mention. Also Colonel Denning State Park on the Tuscarora Trail is on the current hit list.
shelterbuilder
06-01-2009, 21:45
Three of the 4 State Park properties (Caledonia, Pine Grove Furnace, Ibberson Conservation Area) along the A.T. are not on the current hit list. Although Swatara State Park (http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/parks/swatara.aspx) is on the hit list there don't seem to be any facilities to close at this Park. I suppose it's possible that the A.T. parking area near the junction of PA 443 and PA 72 might be blocked off, but I don't know whether this is in State Park or NPS jurisdiction.
The current hit list includes eight of the nine state parks along Mid State Trail (http://www.hike-mst.org) - including Little Pine and Poe Paddy that I've seen others on here mention. Also Colonel Denning State Park on the Tuscarora Trail is on the current hit list.
FWIW, I've heard (yes, hearsay) that the closings will not affect hikers going through any of these areas, but there will not be any facilities provided, and that may include parking areas.
It would be nice if they'd finish building Swatara State Park BEFORE they start closing it!:rolleyes:
Wise Old Owl
06-01-2009, 21:48
Shall we post a link to an old thread started when we went down this path before?:rolleyes:
Keep in mind, State Game Lands are not likely to be affected, nor is NPS corridor. As for the remainder of the AT, I don't expect much impact, but am interested to see what comes of this decision.
Actually please do. - But this is now. It defys logic and I understand has little to do with the AT. But I saw the relevance as I frequent parks though out the year to go hiking and mountain biking as well as doing the AT.
ShakeyLeggs
06-01-2009, 21:56
In truth the parks are not closing as in locking the gates. They just will not be staffed and no facilities will be provided.
It would be nice if they'd finish building Swatara State Park BEFORE they start closing it!:rolleyes:
That's exactly what they're doing at Poe Valley - the closure for renovations would end just about the time that the closure for staffing would start. :D
Actually please do. - But this is now.
AT hikers may have to blue blaze Pennsylvania this year. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25811)
Wise Old Owl
06-01-2009, 22:33
Thanks for bringing that up-now I understand!
Tennessee Viking
06-01-2009, 22:41
Tennessee tried to do that about 15 years ago. Citizens and groups filed law suits saying it was unconstitutional to close down the parks completely. They ended up just cutting park ranger positions and adding fees.
AT hikers may have to blue blaze Pennsylvania this year. (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=25811)
That thread started out being about a temporary universal closure (which still may happen), unlike the permanent targeted closure now under discussion.
Also, since that thread's closed, it's difficult now to add to it.
Possibly a good thing too. Things truly have changed on WB since two years ago. I think it's been at least a couple of months since I saw the word "internegator." :D
Tennessee tried to do that about 15 years ago. Citizens and groups filed law suits saying it was unconstitutional to close down the parks completely. They ended up just cutting park ranger positions and adding fees.
Yep, I'd go ape stool on them too. Parks cost alot more money than I think people think realize sometimes but on the same token the appropriations are not handled well either.
Where is this "hit list"??
Trough Creek?? Shawnee?? I'll cry!
Where is this "hit list"??
Try searching DCNR's website. I don't have time now. You might find a press release.
fiddlehead
06-02-2009, 08:12
I think this will end up making the AT more crowded this summer.
If the state parks are closed, folks looking for some outdoor adventure will head for the trail. (IMO)
jersey joe
06-02-2009, 10:01
I'm really not certain what cutting funding changes all that much. The woods are always "open". So what if they close a few bathrooms when times are tough.
Blowdown will not be chainsawed in some areas. That's the only effect i could see.
jersey joe
06-02-2009, 10:15
Blowdown will not be chainsawed in some areas. That's the only effect i could see.
In 02' when I hiked through the smokies, they were leaving blowdowns for the most part. To be honest, I kinda liked it, it made for some interesting hiking hopping over all the dead pines.
Where is this "hit list"??
This is from my latest e-mail, from the ATC (http://www.wildasaphoutfitters.com/asaph_trail_club) (no, not THAT ATC...)
I received this email from a member of a trail club in the State College area. I thought all of you would be interested in this info if you don't a;ready have it. Liz
35 to 40 state parks may be closed; names released
By ROSCOE BARNES III Staff writer
HARRISBURG - The Pennsylvania Department of Conservation and Natural Resources on Wednesday released a list of nearly 50 state parks from which 35 to 40 could be closed as a result of the Senate's budget cuts.
In addition to park closings, park offices, including the DCNR offices, could see a cut in personnel, according to the Chris Novak, DCNR spokesperson.
DCNR released the list as part of a response to state Sen. Mary Jo White, who had inquired about the closings, among other things. White, a Republican, represents the 21st Senatorial District and serves as chair of the Senate Environmental Resources and Energy Committee.
Some of the area parks that made the list include Whipples Dam, Trough Creek, Samuel S. Lewis, Big Springs, Colonel Denning, Greenwood Furnace, Warriors Path, Fowlers Hollow and Penn-Roosevelt.
Area parks such as Caledonia, Mont Alto, James Buchanan and Cowans Gap did not make the list.
A number of the parks were notified of their status on Tuesday. Novak confirmed Tuesday that "internal notifications" were made by DCNR.
White had asked DCNR: "Please identify the 35 parks that will close should Senate Bill 850 be enacted."
In response, Acting Secretary John Quigley wrote:
"During our initial evaluation of the effects of the bill, we examined our entire operation in the Bureau of State Parks (including central office staffing levels that would also be reduced in response to SB 850). The criteria we looked at are the budget of each park, attendance, income generation, cost per visitor ratio, services offered, and geographic location and proximity to other parks with similar services.
"Through that analysis, we identified 50 parks that we felt needed further study and prioritization depending on final budget numbers. The appropriation provided in SB 850 would require closing 35-40 parks."
Once the parks are closed, they will still be accessible in certain areas by visitors such as hikers. The parks' campgrounds, swimming facilities, restrooms, roads and parking lots will not be available to use. They will be locked or posted.
According to DCNR, there also will be no public services such as maintenance of facilities (built or natural), no resource management, environmental education or law enforcement on the sites.
DCNR further notes: "If the Governor's budget is enacted, we would reduce some management services within the central and regional offices and substantially reduce park level services to minimal levels at five to six parks."
The senator also asked about the parks charging fees as a way to generate revenue and help prevent closings. In its reply, DCNR said the state parks have always offered free access to the public for day use activities.
"However, in response to past inquiries, DCNR has evaluated the fee concept on a number of occasions and has come to the same conclusion: Our parks are ill designed to collect fees.
"Although the implementation of entrance fees could generate revenue at a few locations, the amount of revenue generated after the associated costs are deducted would be minimal at best."
The hit list Pennsylvania State Parks identified for possible closure
Parks '08 attendance
Bendigo 35,669
Elk 20,958
Kinzua Bridge 44,433
Blue Knob 431,738
Clear Creek 136,702
Colonel Denning 61,864
Fowlers Hollow 30,325
Big Spring Delaware Canal
(Black Eddy ONLY) 521,080
Ralph Stover 200,077
Evansburg 661,143
Greenwood Furnace 199,607
Penn Roosevelt 37,637
Whipple Dam 102,528
Kettle Creek 97,179
Ole Bull 82,444
Linn Run 195,950
Laurel Summit 23,223
Laurel Mountain 43,229
Little Pine 107,680
Hyner Run 63,350
Hyner View 36,070
Upper Pine Bottom 1,085
Memorial Lake 155,599
Swatara 64,639
M K Goddard 209,570
Mt Pisgah 64,076
Oil Creek 124,364
RB Winter 138,103
McCalls Dam 2,446
Sand Bridge 17,513
Ravensburg 30,413
Reeds Gap 64,450
Poe Paddy 38,135
Poe Valley 1,523
Ryerson Station 44,230
Sizerville 103,677
Tobyhanna 203,611
Gouldsboro 89,289
Big Pocono 112,591
Yellow Creek 203,053
White Clay 68,040
Norristown
Warriors Path 38,017
Trough Creek 61,252
Prompton 13,750
Salt Spring 30,682
Archbald Pothole 38,205
Sam Lewis 117,357
Erie Bluffs
Hit list is up, the AT is not affected. Any other discussion will ultimately delve into the economy and politics. Thread closed, however I'll stick for a bit for informational purposes.