altitude????

[PUNKINPUSS11]

is there anything u can do besides getting acclimated to the altitude? Due 2 time constraints we might only be able 2 camp in yosemite for 2 days...

[take-a-knee]

The drug Diamox is supposed to help, also Viagra. You could always take Procrit like all the pro endurance athletes do. The best thing is just to get up to altitude and take it easy for a while, and be in stud shape before you go.

[leeki pole]

Altitude kicked my butt in Sequoia, I have run marathons but I didn't know if I was going to make it down the mountain. I was shaking so bad I couldn't get the top off my Gatorade bottle. I made the stupid mistake of trying to do much too soon, a day off the plane. I live at 360' and after the first day at altitude I went to Yosemite and Kings Canyon and had no problems. Two days, well some folks acclimate well, but not me. Take it easy and slow.

[PUNKINPUSS11]

if i was 2 camp 2 days in yosemite would that be sufficient?

[jersey joe]

The altitude is certainly something to be concerned about. Combined with the dry air out west, I also had some trouble with nose bleeds.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

if i was 2 camp 2 days in yosemite would that be sufficient?

Yosemite where?

Yosemite Valley - no (nor will you get a camp site now if you don't have it already reserved)

Tuolumne Meadows - ok - almost 9000 feet and you can do some mild hiking right around the campground (which has 150 walk-in sites). Do a first hike up Lembert Dome (90 mins round trip), then hop on the shuttle to Tioga Pass and go as high as you feel on Mount Dana. If you make it to the top, you get a fantastic view of Mono Lake and Yosemite, plus you should be ready for anything)

[Snowleopard]

Do you have 2 days to acclimate, then beginning a longer trip at high altitude?
2 days at 9000', take it easy the first few days and stay well hydrated. Sleep as low as you can and go higher during the day.

Or, is your whole trip is two days?
If it's two days total, then sleeping higher than 4000' but lower than 9000' would be better for me. 9000' from sea level the first few nights would probably give me headaches. Stay well hydrated.

Physical conditioning doesn't make much difference for acclimating to altitude. It's an individual thing; some people acclimate better than others. Almost everyone going to high altitude from sea level will be sick if they go up too fast. How high is too high depends on the person.

For over 10-12K': If you start having severe headache and nausea consider going down. If anyone in your party starts being confused, stumbling, not being coherent, or respiratory symptoms (severe coughing, wheezing, noises in the lung) go down to lower altitude immediately. If I understand the terrain around Yosemite, this is all unlikely.

[Marta]

Taking it easy is the best advice. If you don't get the sickness started, you'll be fine, but if you overexert, you won't know until you're feeling crappy, and then you'll have a couple of bad days.

The two people close to me who have had bouts of altitude sickness were in excellent shape. They flew to northern New Mexico and hit the ground running--literally. While the rest of us were poking along slowly, gasping for air, my son and an adult friend were running around like maniacs. (We adults were hiking, the kids were doing technical climbing.) By that evening the two guys were both laid low. The next day they were good for nothing. By day three they were okay again, but more cautious than they had been.

[Dogwood]

Take it easy, particularly if you have not acclimated, drink plenty of water, and oxygenate(I like that word) your system. Diamox can help. Never took Procrit. In a pinch I'll purchase some Cell Food at a healthfood store to help with the oxygenation.

Altitude sickness usually begins to be noticed above 8000 ft. but can be felt by some below this elev. Plenty of places in the Yosemite, Seqouia/Kings Canyon Nat. Parks below 8000 ft elev. so depends a bit upon where you are heading. I've witnessed experienced high altitude climbers, mountaineers, and peak baggers in great physical condition, and with no prior experience with altitude sickness, get altitude sickness. I'm a hiker that has only been up to about 19,000 ft, but if I wanted a more informed answer I would seek out the advice of those I just mentioned or visit some of the climbing websites. They are sure to have lots of answers for you.

[take-a-knee]

Taking it easy is the best advice. If you don't get the sickness started, you'll be fine, but if you overexert, you won't know until you're feeling crappy, and then you'll have a couple of bad days.

The two people close to me who have had bouts of altitude sickness were in excellent shape. They flew to northern New Mexico and hit the ground running--literally. While the rest of us were poking along slowly, gasping for air, my son and an adult friend were running around like maniacs. (We adults were hiking, the kids were doing technical climbing.) By that evening the two guys were both laid low. The next day they were good for nothing. By day three they were okay again, but more cautious than they had been.

Being fit doesn't prevent altitude sickness but it does lessen it's likelyhood, unless you "abuse" it. Until your body raises it's level of red-blood cells (hematocrit) as a result of continual exposure to decreased PP of oxygen (hypoxia) as a result of the kidney's response of synthesizing more erythropoetin (hormone, the drug Procrit is biochemically the same). All this occurs faster in young,well nourished (Zone/Paleo dieters) who Crossfit (lots and lots of cellular mitochondria), but it doesn't happen instantly.

You can get altitude sickness below 10,000ft. Many years ago a female Air Force Academy cadet was on a field training exercise in the CO mountains below 10,000. She became quite ill and was told to rest, no one suspected altitude sickness. By the time someone figured out she was gravely ill and needed to be medevaced out, she was dead. This isn't common, but it can happen.

[Dogwood]

Take A knee, how and where do you get Diamox and Procrit?

[take-a-knee]

Take A knee, how and where do you get Diamox and Procrit?

Prescription only, an MD who knows you will give you Diamox, I seriously doubt any MD would give you a scrip for Procrit, since it could be a health risk if you took too much (by raising your hematocrit too high, causing blot clots and heart problems due to your blood becoming too thick). Procrit is used for cancer patients on chemo to boost RBC production, this is why endurance athletes illegally use this stuff, it works. I would never take it myself, just give yourself a few days to adjust to the altitude like Marta said, take the diamox as prescribed. Climbers use the "climb high, sleep low" approach. Get as high as you can but sleep in the pass to avoid problems.

[Phreak]

I had no issue with altitude on my JMT hike. We started at Horseshoe Meadow and hiked NOBO. I was at 10k on the first day with no issues. I did a 5 mile trail run the first night to test the lungs and felt fine.

[take-a-knee]

I had no issue with altitude on my JMT hike. We started at Horseshoe Meadow and hiked NOBO. I was at 10k on the first day with no issues. I did a 5 mile trail run the first night to test the lungs and felt fine.

Phreak is proving my point, how fast can you do the 12.4mi Coosa Backcountry Trail Phreak? Something under four hours?

[fiddlehead]

"Climb high, sleep low" is a good rule in acclimating.
Try to plan your trip so that you don't sleep at the higher elevations. (practically impossible for a SOBO JMT hike though)

If i were you, i'd spend those two nights at Tuloumme instead of camp 2 and take the bus down to the valley for your start. (Fishmonger's advice is the good with some day hikes higher and sleep around Tulolumme)

Headaches will probably occur. They are the first sign. I often get them above 12,000 feet the first day or two. Then they go away.
Go slow those first few hiking days. Maybe plan an extra day between your start and Tuollume (have i really spelled that differently 3 times now???)

My friend "Wall" (of PCT fame as a speed hiker, and someone i met on the AT on our thru in '95) just summited McKinley yesterday. He did it 10 days sooner than planned cause he felt good and the weather cooperated. (now he is coming over here to run the Phuket marathon. (sea level) i imagine he will do pretty good)

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

why is it impossible not to sleep low when going SOBO?

just wondering, since I never really paid attention to where I camp - it usually is where I make it to with 60 mins daylight remaining.

[Phreak]

Phreak is proving my point, how fast can you do the 12.4mi Coosa Backcountry Trail Phreak? Something under four hours?
A little over 3 hours.

[mrc237]

Did the JMT NB in '04 and climbed up Whitney with alot of hikers that were day hiking to the summit and back I think 22 miles. Though they were only carrying daypacks I thought it was too challanging for me. I camped at the second site at about 9-10,000'. Right before the climb with 96(?) switchbacks. Had zero problems breathing etc. could be that I had hiked there from Campo. Went back in 05' to contiue the PCTand started at Toullomne and had so many problems with the altitude that I aborted the hike so getting in altitude shape is probably the key. Good Luck!

[fiddlehead]

why is it impossible not to sleep low when going SOBO?

just wondering, since I never really paid attention to where I camp - it usually is where I make it to with 60 mins daylight remaining.

Because, in the beginning (when the OP is trying to get acclimated) you start out at the trails's lowest elevation and start climbing.
I'm sure you know this. NOt sure why you don't understand my answer.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

Because, in the beginning (when the OP is trying to get acclimated) you start out at the trails's lowest elevation and start climbing.
I'm sure you know this. NOt sure why you don't understand my answer.

And when you start at the southern end, you don't start climbing? Why would SOBO be special in that respect?

I still don't get it, unless you consider Sunrise Creek or Tuolumne Meadows a "high" place.

I've been altitude sick at 3500 feet in Corsica once, but never in the Sierras. All has to do with how you prepare and how long you give your body to respond to the thinner air. In Corsica I made all the mistakes you can make regarding acclimation (lack of sleep, sunburn, dehydrated, lack of food, fast climb) and was doing this at 1200 meters on day one:
http://didnt.doit.wisc.edu/puke_smiley.gif

At Tuolumne Meadows, you have hundreds of unfit people camp every night, driving up from sea level in their RVs or Priuses, and they all look like they are handling the 8800 feet just fine (probably because they sit and breath and don't have to move). Still, even if you walk up from the valley, by the time you get to 9000 feet, you should be in decent shape for that elevation. It takes the average JMT hiker at least 3 days to get from Yos Valley to Donohue Pass, where altitude is for real. Plus, they usually have one or two days at medium elevation prior to the hike to get started with acclimation.

Hiking north-south is the perfect gradual climb with each pass bursting slightly higher than the last - you get the low valleys, low passes first. After Donohue, you hang really low for a few days before you get the next 12,000 foot pass at Muir, and you don't feel that one any longer. Anything after Muir is usually a breeze. Basically, over 8 JMT hikes, I never noticed the elevation. Breathing harder on Whitney and Forester maybe, but there's no way around that when your body needs oxygen during excercise.

If you start in the south, you get the killer Portal-Whitney climb on day 1, with the heaviest pack you will carry on the entire hike. Even starting at Horseshoe Meadows to avoid that climb and come in gradually from the other side is harder than starting in the north. Horseshoe Meadows is over 10k feet and you have the highest passes first on your schedule.

Back in the 80s, people hiked the Muir mostly South-North, probably because the only information source that was widely know was Winnett's Guide book (at least that is all I could find) and it only mentions the north-south route as a footnote.

With more information about the trail available these days, the SOBO direction seems to attract a lot more people (even though there's that "you will get sunburn in your face argument I keep hearing). Last year, I think 80% of the JMT traffic was southbound, which explains why even in mid July, we didn't meet a single person for over 24 hours over 15 miles between Palisade Creek and the bottom of Upper Basin south of Mather. In the late 80s we ran into at least 20 hikers northbound per day. We probably had more "fastpackers" pass us southbound last year than we met coming north.

But to get back on sleeping high/low: sure, you gotta sleep higher than you start out when you begin in Yos. Valley, but you probably won't even sleep as high as you start out at the southern end of the trail. After that, you make the call where to set up camp.

[Dogwood]

I'm a bit confused about Fiddlehead's and Helmuth.Fishmonger's statements. Going southbound on the, JMT starting at Happy Isles TH in Yosemite Valley, enables one to start at a lower elev. and then gradually acclimate to the higher elevations of the highest passes and 14,000 ft. + Mt. Whitney at the southern terminus of the JMT. Also, allows a JMT thru-hiker to not have to haul a full heavy pack all the way up the Mt. Whitney portal trail at the very beginning of a thru-hike when many hikers are at their least fittest. Maybe, that's what each one of you are saying and I'm just having brain fog.

[Helmuth.Fishmonger]

I'm a bit confused about Fiddlehead's and Helmuth.Fishmonger's statements. Going southbound on the, JMT starting at Happy Isles TH in Yosemite Valley, enables one to start at a lower elev. and then gradually acclimate to the higher elevations of the highest passes and 14,000 ft. + Mt. Whitney at the southern terminus of the JMT. Also, allows a JMT thru-hiker to not have to haul a full heavy pack all the way up the Mt. Whitney portal trail at the very beginning of a thru-hike when many hikers are at their least fittest. Maybe, that's what each one of you are saying and I'm just having brain fog.

isn't that what I have been saying? duh