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Rockhound
06-04-2009, 11:43
Bouncing around the woods for the past week. Saw the ponies, Laurel falls....having a great time with one exception. Staying at the place. I did not mind that there is no stove, no fridge, no towels, no mattresses, no soap, no shampoo, etc.... but perhaps there should be a caretaker. Night 1 while trying to go to sleep the Soccer mom generation was still up making lots of noise without any consideration for those trying to sleep. It did not help that the wooden floors and openness of the building just amplifies the noise.at 11:45 someone came downstairs and politely asked them to keep it down as others were trying to sleep. Of course this did not work. At about 12:30 I spoke up and said, "Don't take this the wrong way but it's tomorrow. Shut the @#%$ up. This seemed to work. Night 2 it started all over again I wound up taking my sleeping bag on the porch. Still too noisy I wound up pitching my tent. The noise finally died down around 1:30 or 1:45. Just a complete lack of respect for anyone else. Of those making the noise, a few had been there well past the 2 day max and some even joked about their friends getting kicked out a few nights prior for drinking on the property. I'd also be very surprised if even 1/2 of them made the suggested $4 donation per night. I surley appreciate the Place being there but after this experience I feel they should either shut it down or get an on property caretaker. Am I just getting old or am i justified in how I feel?

kanga
06-04-2009, 11:47
you're getting old. but you're still justified. it's amazing to me how many completely disrepectful people are out there.

jersey joe
06-04-2009, 11:59
Probably a combination of both...people certainly should be more polite but if you really value a good nights sleep, there is nothing stopping you from paying for a night in a hotel. Try earplugs next time?!?

Tin Man
06-04-2009, 12:00
you're getting old. but you're still justified. it's amazing to me how many completely disrepectful people are out there.

different habbits breed different perpectives on respect. what can you expect when whiners whine about others whining about their late night partying or earlying morning cooking/packing?

simple solution... tent away from others... always

kanga
06-04-2009, 12:05
different habbits breed different perpectives on respect. what can you expect when whiners whine about others whining about their late night partying or earlying morning cooking/packing?

simple solution... tent away from others... always
i would say that lack of discipline breeds lack of respect.

mudhead
06-04-2009, 12:15
I wish I had been there for you. 3AM is a good rollout. Not that I would startle them for you.

I avoid people, as they don't care for the crack of dawn gene.

emerald
06-04-2009, 13:00
I'm seeing quite a few replies I can't agree with here. I don't know whether or not quiet hours are posted, but they should be and they ought to be respected. It shouldn't require a caretaker to remind guests of what ought to be common sense.

If I'm not mistaken, The Place is provided for hikers and bikers to rest and get a good night's sleep before continuing with their journeys. A substantial proportion if not a majority of such people are early to bed and early to rise types.

This notion that such people should be expected to accommodate those who want to stay up all night by wearing earplugs, tenting or renting a room is nonsense and if y'all don't realize it, I'm posting to call it to your attention.

mikec
06-04-2009, 13:08
That's the one complaint that I have about hostels. They are loud at night. I had this problem at Kincora as well as The Place. One solution is ear plugs. I don't hit the trail without them.

beakerman
06-04-2009, 13:20
I have a foot in both camps on this one. Being a night owl myself I find it difficult to settle in when others are already down for the night. however i am very quiet. Most of the time i'm just sitting and reading or if there's a fire I'm just zoning out. Sure I get up to take care of business but only as much as needed.

So yeah I agree you should not be expected to accomodate folks like me too much--I'm the outsider--I'm the one staying up late you are trying to sleep. So I should tone it down but that does not mean call it a night--I am an adult and should not have my bedtime dictated to me by others.

You on the other hand are an adult also and have been out inthe world. You should know how people generally behave. You can have folks like me that are very respectful and you won't even know we are there or folks like the group you encountered that have no respect for anyone or anything. You should expect it. That does not mean you should avoid hostels or shelters but should be prepared to deal with others. Ear plugs only weigh a few grams and you know you will need them if you are staying in a group environment.

Oh and yes ther should be a proper caretaker and if rules are posted they should be enforced. If I don't like the rules then I should move on...you too...no quiet time posted then you're likely to have folks up all night like you just described and you should consider moving on...

Jeff
06-04-2009, 13:20
Rockhound,

How do you and Curtis handle these issues at Standing Bear?

Blissful
06-04-2009, 13:46
That's the problem with hostels. Part of the territory.

emerald
06-04-2009, 13:50
So I should tone it down

Correct. I wasn't aware there are two camps. This thread is about respect. People who want to talk all night should take it elsewhere, not the people who are trying to get some sleep.

Anyone who has hiked from Springer Mountain to Damascus should know what's considered to be acceptable behavior among hikers. Why do some act as though the standards of behavior no longer apply once they reach town?

Quiet hours shouldn't need to be posted, but posting hours eliminates disagreement as to what they ought to be. Once posted, quiet hours are a matter of fact and volume.

beakerman
06-04-2009, 14:30
Emerald

Let me make that 100% clear...there are two camps: early to bed early to rise/quiet lovers and those late night people. I like quiet and late night so I have a foot in both camps.

Same goes for the reactions to the situation you found yourself in: they should have been quiet, within reason, especially after being told. However you should have expected it because from what you wrote you were complaining about floors creaking and such. So you should probably carry some ear plugs just so folks can go to the head without waking you.

Why should my buddies and I be deprived the right to talk quietly amongst ourselves just because you are a light sleeper? You should out of respect for others take some precautions for your particular situation--that's all I'm trying to say.

And in the situation you described I might have done the same thing as you if they were talking loudly--especially after someone said something already.

As you said it's about respect and unfortunately most folks don't know it is a two way street.

Tin Man
06-04-2009, 14:41
i would say that lack of discipline breeds lack of respect.

more like... prevalent permissive peckerhead parenting breeds bumsuck bastids with big boneheads

Tin Man
06-04-2009, 14:44
This notion that such people should be expected to accommodate those who want to stay up all night by wearing earplugs, tenting or renting a room is BS and if y'all don't realize it, I'm posting to call it to your attention.

I call BS to thinking you can control other people at hostels, shelters, etc. I sleep in my tent because I like my privacy. Sleep in the hostels and shelters if you like, but don't whine when people don't behave the way you expect or think they should.

emerald
06-04-2009, 14:55
Why should my buddies and I be deprived the right to talk quietly amongst ourselves just because you are a light sleeper? You said it's about respect and unfortunately most folks don't know it is a two way street.

You seem to assume I was at The Place on the night or nights the thread starter mentioned. I wasn't and haven't stayed there in many years. You might address your comments to rockhound.

I made some general comments about such situations and this notion of tolerance some here have. One cannot have it both ways. It doesn't work at a hostel any more than a shelter. I wonder whether you think it's acceptable to talk within earshot of others at shelters at the same hour people were talking audibly at The Place. There need to be rules which are agreed upon whether posted or not when people share such close quarters.

Never did I indicate what your bedtime ought to be or whether or not you ought to be able to talk. When I was a boy and camped, we learned this concept. I don't understand why people seem to have such a hard time with it today.

Tin Man
06-04-2009, 14:57
When I was a boy and camped, we learned this concept. I don't understand why people seem to have such a hard time with it today.

simple... permissive parenting

emerald
06-04-2009, 15:08
I call BS to thinking you can control other people at hostels, shelters, etc. I sleep in my tent because I like my privacy. Sleep in the hostels and shelters if you like, but don't whine when people don't behave the way you expect or think they should.

If rules are posted and guests don't comply with them, the owners of the facility have a right to ask those guests to leave.

If the only recourse guests who are deprived of sleep have is to start threads about water under the bridge, then I don't call it whining even if it can't reverse the effects of permissive parenting. Instead, these threads might be viewed as an effort to change the way people think about parenting and thus avoid additional sleepless nights.

Tin Man
06-04-2009, 15:18
If rules are posted and guests don't comply with them, the owners of the facility have a right to ask those guests to leave.

Agreed.


If the only recourse guests who are respecting rules have is to start threads about water under the bridge, then I don't call it whining even if it can't change what happened.

post facto whining is still whining. and rockhound is a friend who actually knows that people are going to be disrepectful. i suspect he was testing the waters at the place to see what all the whining was about. :D

i ain't fighting you, i'm just saying if you tent alone you have a much better shot of having things the way you like them rather than if you stay in a shared facility with people who come from many different backgrounds and ways of thinking and doing. simple.

emerald
06-04-2009, 15:45
I'm going back to work so y'all can get to the bottom of this issue.;)

OldStormcrow
06-04-2009, 15:46
That's the problem with hostels. Part of the territory.
While I would not attempt to defend those that make too much late night noise at hostels, partying or not, I think I can safely say that my snoring is of a much higher volume than almost any late night crowd. I've woken up the next morning in completely empty cabins that were full when I went to sleep the night before, strolled outside and was met by many sleepy and angry faces. For that reason and oh so many others I prefer to tent camp.

Mags
06-04-2009, 17:27
If rules are posted and guests don't comply with them, the owners of the facility have a right to ask those guests to leave.



Quiet time and silent time are two different ideas. Does The Place say silent time or quiet time?

I think it is perfectly reasonable to talk quietly and still be courteous to other guests; esp if the talkers in question are in a different part of the hostel as the OP suggested. Raucous partying is another ball of wax. I say this statement as an early riser.

beakerman
06-04-2009, 18:22
Quiet time and silent time are two different ideas. Does The Place say silent time or quiet time?

I think it is perfectly reasonable to talk quietly and still be courteous to other guests; esp if the talkers in question are in a different part of the hostel as the OP suggested. Raucous partying is another ball of wax. I say this statement as an early riser.

That's my point. If even that level of "noise" is too much for an individual then perhaps they should realize that they are in or are going to be in a communal facility and noise is going to happen thus they should plan accordingly.

It's the sleepers responsibility too...if someone walking across the floor to take a leak is going to wake them up then they have the problem not the person trying to releave themselves.

This does not give me carte blanche to throw a party but it does leave me room to enjoy my evening too....

Emerald: yes I did somehow swap you an rockhound...sorry for the confusion but the points still stand regardless of my identity confusion.

mrc237
06-04-2009, 18:43
Trail "war stories" are never told nor heard quietly!

mrc237
06-04-2009, 18:45
While I would not attempt to defend those that make too much late night noise at hostels, partying or not, I think I can safely say that my snoring is of a much higher volume than almost any late night crowd. I've woken up the next morning in completely empty cabins that were full when I went to sleep the night before, strolled outside and was met by many sleepy and angry faces. For that reason and oh so many others I prefer to tent camp.

I'm like you thats why I carry EXTRA earplugs for those around me.

generoll
06-04-2009, 19:07
it seems that the basic feeling is that places like "The Place" should be left to the party crowd and those seeking peace and quiet should go away.

Mags
06-04-2009, 19:21
it seems that the basic feeling is that places like "The Place" should be left to the party crowd and those seeking peace and quiet should go away.

Nah..just that like most of life there is a middle ground.

I know it is shocking on this website, but most people in real life can meet each other in the middle. :)

I wouldn't want a kegger going on in a community hostel esp. after quiet hours.

OTOH, if people are talking quietly in a different room from the sleeping quarters, I'm not gonna get my panties in a twist.

...and that's about all I can say without repeating myself. :)

Surplusman
06-04-2009, 21:47
"Recognize reailty and make it work for you. If you don't, it will automatically work against you." In this case, just assume that hostels are going to be full of folks with late nite/early morning mouth diarrhea. Pitch your tent or hammock and get a good night's sleep.

Sly
06-04-2009, 22:35
Unless I have heart burn, I seldom have problems sleeping.

Lone Wolf
06-04-2009, 22:36
most hostels suck. especially The Place cuz there's no babysitter there. thru-hikers have proven year after year that they can't be trusted to do the right thing. they're inconsiderate and slobs

Tinker
06-04-2009, 22:45
If I stayed at a public place I'd probably wake everyone up with my snoring. I can only imagine my neighbors at Trail Days. I went to bed long before they did. They didn't keep me awake, I hope I didn't keep them awake :D.

Lugnut
06-04-2009, 22:51
simple... permissive parenting


We have a winner!

Pokey2006
06-04-2009, 22:58
When I stayed at the Place, I was woken up by people talking VERY LOUDLY at 6 in the morning. Not whispering to each other or talking quietly -- they were practically shouting back and forth, laughing, etc. So it's not about partying late at night, it really is about respect. If people are trying to sleep, go into another room to talk quietly, or keep it to a whisper, whether it's 12:30 a.m., or 6 a.m. Anyone with an ounce of respect should know that automatically.

Tin Man
06-04-2009, 23:05
When I stayed at the Place, I was woken up by people talking VERY LOUDLY at 6 in the morning. Not whispering to each other or talking quietly -- they were practically shouting back and forth, laughing, etc. So it's not about partying late at night, it really is about respect. If people are trying to sleep, go into another room to talk quietly, or keep it to a whisper, whether it's 12:30 a.m., or 6 a.m. Anyone with an ounce of respect should know that automatically.

yep, but they don't, probably never will. fighting it or whining about it ain't gonna change it either.

i really don't understand the commune experience. the last time i slept with a bunch of strangers was the last time.

Lugnut
06-04-2009, 23:13
the last time i slept with a bunch of strangers was the last time.

Paid admission? :D

Tin Man
06-04-2009, 23:20
Paid admission? :D

they pay me to stay out :cool:

River Runner
06-05-2009, 02:16
I thought The Place was awesome, especially considering they only asked for a tiny donation for a warm dry place to spend the night, and a warm shower. If they hired a caretaker, I imagine the cost would have to go up considerably.

I think it is what it is. Those who are particular might be better served by going elsewhere.

On the other hand, I do think it's common courtesy to quiet down at a reasonable hour. That might not be 'hiker midnight' of 9 pm, but most campgrounds etc. designate a time around 10 pm, which seems reasonable. And as Pokey pointed out, quiet time should also apply in the morning until a reasonable hour, usually around 7 am. Unfortunately common courtesy seems to be becoming more uncommon...

Pokey2006
06-05-2009, 02:41
7 a.m. is so not a reasonable hour!

I think if people are sleeping, be courteous, regardless of the hour.

mudhead
06-05-2009, 07:47
7 a.m. is so not a reasonable hour!

I think if people are sleeping, be courteous, regardless of the hour.

Sweet Jeepers. Lunch time! I suppose people like to sleep on their vacation.

Courteous yes.

Quiet yes.

Sad that people miss the best part of the day, yes.

Blue Jay
06-05-2009, 08:28
You go to a hikers Grand Central Station and expect it to be quiet???? It's like the staying in a shelter and being upset at the mice. Even I want to scream WAKE UP at you.:banana

Blue Jay
06-05-2009, 08:30
We have a winner!

No, we have a whinner.:eek:

superman
06-05-2009, 08:36
most hostels suck. especially The Place cuz there's no babysitter there. thru-hikers have proven year after year that they can't be trusted to do the right thing. they're inconsiderate and slobs


That's why I go to motels. It's worth the money to me to not have to deal with the children of the trail...no matter what their age is.

mudhead
06-05-2009, 09:02
Superman's feeling corny today.

Flush2wice
06-05-2009, 10:29
next time stay here:

6370

rambunny
06-05-2009, 12:31
Rambunny here at Happy Hiker Hollow-We post the facts-not rules-Quiet hours (TV low, quiet voices) after 9:30. Alot of our guests say they appreciate it. I for one wanted sleep when i hit town. We've had wonderful guests ,they have suggested we not call ourselves a Hostel,because they get beds and sleep!

vamelungeon
06-05-2009, 13:10
Any time I've had to sleep in any type of communal living space- barracks, dormitory, or whatever- there's ALWAYS one or two that have no respect for anyone else. The guy that plays his stereo loud at 3 am, the bunch that laugh and yell and scream while others are sleeping, you can count on them being there. They are the same kind of people who jump lines that others have waited in for hours and park in handicapped spaces even though nothing is wrong with them. To expect these people to act in any other way is ridiculous, but it took me years to understand this. The bottom line is there are A-holes everywhere that don't care about anything except themselves and they aren't going to change for you or me.

Rockhound
06-05-2009, 18:43
Rockhound,

How do you and Curtis handle these issues at Standing Bear?
Standing Bear is a Unique place. I can not say that there have never been any "incidents", but on the whole it does seem to take care of itself to a degree. It has the space. The cabin would be recommended for those who who prize a good nights rest most highly. The bunkhouse sleeps 14. It has a wood stove, 4 walls, and mattresses. A good nights rest is nearly certain provided you can deal with snorers. It is just outside the fire pit area where good times will be sure to be had until as late as late as the present company dictates, There are no set quiet hours. On occasion of course there are those that might might need special accommodations to suit there desire to revel and others desire to sleep. Those can and have been arranged in the past and I'm sure will be again in the future. Perhaps the most discerning choice would be to tent in the back yard, depending upon the weather of course. You can partake in all the revelry you wish and retire to a beautiful night under the stars. Rather than cram all the hikers into a confined space, Standing Bear provides enough room to give everybody their own space. Conversely I think it provides hikers of different backgrounds and ideologies to gain a closer understanding of one an other without offending one another. Nothing is forced, nothing is demanded, nothing is expected. As many of you have may have guessed by now, I have had a few cocktails. Those of you that know me know I'm really not this deep. I love love life and think that everybody else should too. If you disagree with me, piss off. I still love you anyway. That's all for now.

Wise Old Owl
06-05-2009, 22:29
most hostels suck. especially The Place cuz there's no babysitter there. thru-hikers have proven year after year that they can't be trusted to do the right thing. they're inconsiderate and slobs

Can't argue with that... Wow we can agree on something! How ever its a hostel thing not a thouh hiker thing. I found both newbee Boy Scouts and Middle School Students at Hostels are the same way.:cool:

Lone Wolf
06-06-2009, 06:18
Can't argue with that... Wow we can agree on something! How ever its a hostel thing not a thouh hiker thing. I found both newbee Boy Scouts and Middle School Students at Hostels are the same way.:cool:

church/school groups, scouts and bikers don't trash the place or disregard the rules like thru-hikers do. this is a fact

Rockhound
06-06-2009, 08:13
gotta agree with LW there. There were at least 3 bikers there, maybe a few more upstairs. They were only interested in getting a good nights rest and moving on. Kinda the whole point of the hostel no? One of them got driven outside around midnight also. Gives us hikers a bad name. On another note, a hiker had left his wallet in the bathroom and it disappeared. At that point I heard one of the bikers say, "We better make sure to keep our stuff close here". So their impression of hikers is that they are thieves as well as disrespectful, inconsiderate A-holes. Sad part is that it is true. A small percentage I'm sure, but still true.

Jeff
06-06-2009, 12:06
The bad apples must drop out before Vermont. We had no problems with noise or theft. However, we have a No Alcohol policy. Too bad, because most drinkers are completely responsible. The few who go overboard make life miserable for everyone else.

Christus Cowboy
06-06-2009, 21:57
............The bottom line is there are A-holes everywhere that don't care about anything except themselves and they aren't going to change for you or me.

Just curious here..... could the reason why such inconsiderate individuals are "everywhere" is because there's a consistent absence of meaningful consequences?

emerald
06-06-2009, 23:27
The bad apples must drop out before Vermont.

Miles and money weed out many NOBOs; mountains weed out many SOBOs. Any remaining bad apples are turned into Woodchuck Draft Cider.


Just curious, are inconsiderate individuals "everywhere" because of a consistent absence of meaningful consequences?

Years ago, when completion weren't as high as they are today, inconsiderate campers never made it out of Georgia, because hikers slept in shelters. Hikers didn't put up with nonsense then and weren't tenting or hammocking.

Snorers left the trail due to low mileage production brought on by insomnia and dust created by hikers who slept well.;)

vamelungeon
06-06-2009, 23:38
Just curious here..... could the reason why such inconsiderate individuals are "everywhere" is because there's a consistent absence of meaningful consequences?

No. Adults don't need consequences, they do things because they should. Immature, self-centered people have to have the boundaries defined for them. An adult thinks "People are sleeping, maybe I should try to be quiet." The type of people we are discussing don't consider others in their reasoning, if there is any reasoning in their heads. They just do what feels good to them at the time, and are often surprised to learn they've had a negative impact on anyone else, mainly because they DON'T consider other people.

Most people are adults, thank God. It's that other 5% that often makes an otherwise pleasurable experience unbearable.

double d
06-07-2009, 10:51
No. Adults don't need consequences, they do things because they should. Immature, self-centered people have to have the boundaries defined for them. An adult thinks "People are sleeping, maybe I should try to be quiet." The type of people we are discussing don't consider others in their reasoning, if there is any reasoning in their heads. They just do what feels good to them at the time, and are often surprised to learn they've had a negative impact on anyone else, mainly because they DON'T consider other people.

Most people are adults, thank God. It's that other 5% that often makes an otherwise pleasurable experience unbearable.

Very well written! Many people feel that rules and even the law doesn't apply to them and when the rules are enforced, they decide they need to confront others and agrue endlessly. What a waste of time and emotions for everyone but those who do not follow the common sense of treating others as you wish to be treated.

Lybarger
06-07-2009, 11:55
The Place should hire a caretaker or shut down for the thruhiker season. Too many idiots ruin it for the good guys. Charge $15, hire someone and things would quickly change.

Lone Wolf
07-05-2010, 21:28
church/school groups, scouts and bikers don't trash the place or disregard the rules like thru-hikers do. this is a fact

more so this year

RGB
07-05-2010, 21:37
I had a similar experience with a rowdy bunch of scouts that I've already posted on here. My only wish is that a representative of The Place subscribes to WB to see all of the complaints. Because I couldn't find one in the building or at the church the next day.

Blue Jay
07-06-2010, 19:09
My only wish is that a representative of The Place subscribes to WB to see all of the complaints.

Why so that The Place can be closed down? This kind of Whining has shut down hiker services over the years over the entire lenght of the trail. If you don't like the services provided, quite cheaply I might add, please please go somewhere else and shut up.

RGB
07-07-2010, 01:08
Why so that The Place can be closed down? This kind of Whining has shut down hiker services over the years over the entire lenght of the trail. If you don't like the services provided, quite cheaply I might add, please please go somewhere else and shut up.

I think you could've been a little more civil with that. Your age isn't posted so who am I to judge?

I am very grateful for The Place, I can't stress that enough, especially for their very low price. I hardly think if someone read my comment or others like it they would stop going to The Place. I also find it hard to believe that if a representative of The Place read it, they would think "well that's all she wrote. There's too many complaints of noise, so it's time to close down." The logical thing to do would be to address the issue somehow that would bring the greatest amount of good to the greatest amount of people.

It wouldn't cost anything to post quiet hours. If they are not respected and there are complaints, then the offender could be banned. Word would get around that the rules are taken seriously, and people would be quiet. So the Place doesn't have to raise their price, and everyone can get some sleep.

Jack Tarlin
07-07-2010, 11:30
Posting quiet hours would be about as effective as their posting of other rules.....i.e. it'd be ignored.

Without an on-site caretaker, people will do whatever they please, and expecting people to be courteous or respectful is expecting a lot.

Until hikers police each other and correct or admonish folks who are behaving improperly (and hikers simply won't do this), then nothing is gonna change, either at the Place or at other hostels.

People truly concerned about this have one real expedient: They can stay elsewhere, which is probably not such a bad idea.

Query to Walking Dude: At hostels where caretakers or owners simply aren't present, how on earth is anyone going to be corrected or banned? :-?