View Full Version : muskrat conflict
shrunkenhead
06-04-2009, 13:48
Last tuesday, May 26, Our group had an unfortuate conflict with
some self-identified through hikers, resulting in yelling and cursing.
Our group, 12-15 year old boys and dads (age 45-55) were travelling south, a group of 4 self identifed thru hiker came about 4:30pm after we, being the only one at the site had settled in and began fixing for dinner.
This one twenty-ish woman with painted red hair and a nose stud demanded we remove our things from the shelter because they needed it. We depend on staying in the shelters and are not prepared to sleep outside. She says the shelters are built only for the thruhiker. She asked for immediate compliance because the shelters, she claims are for thru hikers. We asked her to settle down, set up camp and we'd gather together our people in a short while. I thought we could work something out, but she wanted unconditional surrender, and her friend started demanding names and addresses then began loud cursing. They left in a huff after a while.
How can issues like this be resolved without conflict? There was nothing posted at the site and that shelter is so small. Also, we later heard she made the same statements the night before at plum orchard. (she had told us she'd hiked twenty miles that day, even though pulm is less then 8 miles) We wonder how much longer they will remain on the trail, depending only on staying in shelters. (ie: any further sightings of the painted red haired girl?)
:confused:
Ridge Rat
06-04-2009, 13:58
I deal with it the old fashioned way. I either let them have it if they are cool and dont demand it just out of respect. Or. if they're rude I let them know to keep steppin
Snowleopard
06-04-2009, 14:01
I'm sorry you had such a poor experience with these people. It sounds like someone (not you) needs some anger management.
Where was this? There are places along the AT in the south where thru-hikers have priority at shelters and places where everyone needs to make reservations (I'm not sure where, the Smokies and Shenandoah?? anyone here know?).
Also, sometimes the shelters are completely filled, so it's a good idea for everyone to carry a stand by shelter -- a couple of cheap blue poly tarps from the hardware store would do.
Both parties are in error.
No thru-hiker should be demanding shelter space. Sorry..that's rude and wrong.
But, this line from you raised my very thick eyebrows:
We depend on staying in the shelters and are not prepared to sleep outside.
I am not 100% sure what you mean by this, but it sounds like you weren't carrying any shelter?
No hiker(s) should depend upon sleeping in shelters. A party of many people esp.
Also gives another reason to not sleep in shelters. I never had anyone come up to my tarp/tent/whatever and demand I make space for them. ;)
Just my .02.
max patch
06-04-2009, 14:13
She was wrong in addition to being an azz. Shelters are first come, first served. One person can't come first and "save" for others. Everyone should bring shelter of some type -- tent, tarp, bivy, whatever -- even if planning to stay in the shelters.
Your comment is exhibit A of why I tent out.
MintakaCat
06-04-2009, 14:20
I suggest not being so dependant on shelters. There is no way to control who goes on the trail, but you can control where you sleep with a tent/hammock setup. Doesn't mean you wouldn't have had a problem with this group, but it does reduce the odds.
Carrying your own form of shelter makes you much more flexible and thus reduce the chance of an unpleasant situation.
Cabin Fever
06-04-2009, 14:21
I cannot remember her name nor would I mention it to avoid false accusations, but this sounds like a girl from Hard Core that cussed like a sailor. Painted red hair and a stud in her nose narrows down the possibilities pretty fast.
I would have told that bitch to fk off!:Dnicely considering I hate rude thru hikers with that attitude:eek:ky
Desert Reprobate
06-04-2009, 14:27
You just tell her that the thru-hiker only shelter is another 2 miles up the trail.
Cabin Fever
06-04-2009, 14:31
There is no such thing as a thru hiker only shelter. If they rely on the shelters instead of carrying their own, that is their fault and they should bear the burden of cowboy camping.
At the same time, Boy Scouts should not overrun shelters with their large groups. One Boy Scout troop can instantly fill up a shelter. The only exception off the top of my head is Overmountain Shelter which could sleep a small town.
MoodyBluer
06-04-2009, 15:40
There is no such thing as a thru hiker only shelter. If they rely on the shelters instead of carrying their own, that is their fault and they should bear the burden of cowboy camping.
At the same time, Boy Scouts should not overrun shelters with their large groups. One Boy Scout troop can instantly fill up a shelter. The only exception off the top of my head is Overmountain Shelter which could sleep a small town.
I think Desert Reprobate was foolin'...hoping they would take up the lie and then leave in search of said non-existent shelter. :)
Desert Reprobate
06-04-2009, 15:43
I think Desert Reprobate was foolin'...hoping they would take up the lie and then leave in search of said non-existent shelter. :)
If you read it on the internet, it must be true.
Oh man I had a similar experience.
On 5/26, Me and a group of three friends were hiking northbound and at the end of the day we came to a shelter where a bunch of kids and their dads were taking up a shelter. We asked them to leave but my girlfriend started cursing them off and demanded they leave. We ended up huffing off and stealth camped for the night.
OldStormcrow
06-04-2009, 15:51
I'm sorry I missed that little conflict. I would have loved to inform this youngster of the error of her ways, all the while being sure to push her buttons and rattle her cage as much as possible. First come, first served, unless you've got a broken leg or having a baby in the snow or something like that.....
Oh man I had a similar experience.
On 5/26, Me and a group of three friends were hiking northbound and at the end of the day we came to a shelter where a bunch of kids and their dads were taking up a shelter. We asked them to leave but my girlfriend started cursing them off and demanded they leave. We ended up huffing off and stealth camped for the night.my only question to you mr. totem what gives you or your girlfriend the right to say anything:cool: who made you the AT king and queen?besides that your lucky it wasnt a bunch of hiker/bikers at the shelter:rolleyes:ky
Seriously though, Many atime have I hiked 15 miles to a shelter and was greeted by 10-12 scouts who just hiked a whole mile (uphill!!! mind you) from the road to sleep in "the woods" for the night.
I feel the rule is 1st-come-1st-served to capacity. 6 people can't claim ownership of a shelter that can fit 8. I will show generousity to those who have arrived after my group if they've hiked further than i... but if my group fills the shelter and we went 17 miles, then a group of scouts shows up from the road 900' away...
"oh, you guys don't have tents? that's unfortunate."
kyhipo (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=5852) - I was joking. It's the converse of his story.
Slo-go'en
06-04-2009, 15:58
Althought the group of thru-hikers in question did not handle the situation in a very diplomatic way, they were justified to be irrate at you.
First off, your group was way too large. 12 scouts plus adults was likely at least 15 or 16 people. Maximum group size is suppost to be limited to 10 total. If you want to take a group bigger thatn 10 out in the woods, go someplace other than the AT! (and even a group of 10 can be a burden on most shelters and camping locations on the AT)
Second, what if you showed up and there was already another group there or 4-5 thru-hikers in the shelter? Not having any tents of your own, you'd have to risk sleeping in the rain.
OldStormcrow
06-04-2009, 16:03
I REALLY do hate large groups at shelters, Boy Scouts, llama trekkers, women's empowerment groups, whatever. In almost every encounter I have had with such groups, the next morning I find Ramen noodles washed out in the spring, little white "flowers" sprouting around the back of the shelter, shampoo suds in the spring, a tinfoil-filled smouldering fire, etc. There are large group campsites and horse campsites that are better designed to absorb that kind of impact......but not the AT.
Slo-go'en
06-04-2009, 16:05
Opps, guess he didn't specify his group size. I read 12-15 year olds as 12, 15 year old kids. Even so, I suspect the group was large.
Phoenixdadeadhead
06-04-2009, 16:06
kyhipo (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/member.php?u=5852) - I was joking. It's the converse of his story.
You know you aren't allowed to Joke on whiteblaze, too many people have no sense of humor.
BTW for the SOH challenged that was a joke
You know you aren't allowed to Joke on whiteblaze, too many people have no sense of humor.
BTW for the SOH challenged that was a jokereally funny aint it:rolleyes:ky
Hikerhead
06-04-2009, 18:13
We depend on staying in the shelters and are not prepared to sleep outside.
It's not real clear but I think the OP meant to say that the above is what the girl in question said to them. I could be wrong. :eek:
But I would told them too bad, keep on hiking.
CrumbSnatcher
06-04-2009, 18:24
But I would told them too bad, keep on hiking.
i would of told them a little more than that!
Phoenixdadeadhead
06-04-2009, 18:36
I would have scooted over and made room for them, but to be honest they never would have needed to ask since I would have been moving my junk as soon as I heard them coming lol. Not saying the offer was never made. I wasn't there so I have no idea how things went down.
Blissful
06-04-2009, 19:37
We depend on staying in the shelters and are not prepared to sleep outside. :confused:
Well that is the first mistake hiking the trail. One should always be prepared to tent and not rely on the shelter system.
Just goes to show, there are jackasses who hike as well as those who drive around in cars and pickup trucks.
fiddlehead
06-04-2009, 20:33
I think this troll is getting a lot of action.
Somewhere in Georgia we came across a group of ROTC kids that had tents set up inside the shelter.
Lone Wolf
06-16-2009, 16:39
Last tuesday, May 26, Our group had an unfortuate conflict with
some self-identified through hikers, resulting in yelling and cursing.
Our group, 12-15 year old boys and dads (age 45-55) were travelling south, a group of 4 self identifed thru hiker came about 4:30pm after we, being the only one at the site had settled in and began fixing for dinner.
This one twenty-ish woman with painted red hair and a nose stud demanded we remove our things from the shelter because they needed it. We depend on staying in the shelters and are not prepared to sleep outside. She says the shelters are built only for the thruhiker. She asked for immediate compliance because the shelters, she claims are for thru hikers. We asked her to settle down, set up camp and we'd gather together our people in a short while. I thought we could work something out, but she wanted unconditional surrender, and her friend started demanding names and addresses then began loud cursing. They left in a huff after a while.
How can issues like this be resolved without conflict? There was nothing posted at the site and that shelter is so small. Also, we later heard she made the same statements the night before at plum orchard. (she had told us she'd hiked twenty miles that day, even though pulm is less then 8 miles) We wonder how much longer they will remain on the trail, depending only on staying in shelters. (ie: any further sightings of the painted red haired girl?)
:confused:
shelters are first come, first served. period. thru-hiker wannabes have absolutely no rights to any shelter. i'd a cussed the little bitch out. but that's just me
Lone Wolf
06-16-2009, 16:42
There are places along the AT in the south where thru-hikers have priority at shelters
BS. NO hiker regardless of label has a priority at a shelter
Big Dawg
06-16-2009, 20:00
I despise elitist thru hikers.
workboot
06-16-2009, 20:24
I would have told that bitch to fk off!:Dnicely considering I hate rude thru hikers with that attitude:eek:ky
I hear ya...cept I wouldn't done it nicely :D ...perhaps it's a KY thing ;)
kolokolo
06-16-2009, 21:03
I think that large groups, be they Boy Scouts or any other organization, need to be especially aware of overwhelming other groups that are on the trail. In terms of noise alone, a group of 10 or 12 can be heard a long way off, and can monopolize whatever facilities are available. I speak from experience, being a troop leader who has lead BSA groups on a number of such trips. I think that any group of scouts, out of common courtesy, should plan not to rely on shelters on a hike. To not even be equipped to sleep outdoors is inexcusable.
Equally inexcusable was the woman's demand that they vacate, but everyone knows that Scouts are Friendly, Courteous, and Kind.
Be Prepared!
Many Walks
06-16-2009, 23:46
Last tuesday, May 26, Our group had an unfortuate conflict with
some self-identified through hikers, resulting in yelling and cursing.
Our group, 12-15 year old boys and dads (age 45-55) were travelling south, a group of 4 self identifed thru hiker came about 4:30pm after we, being the only one at the site had settled in and began fixing for dinner.
This one twenty-ish woman with painted red hair and a nose stud demanded we remove our things from the shelter because they needed it. We depend on staying in the shelters and are not prepared to sleep outside. She says the shelters are built only for the thruhiker. She asked for immediate compliance because the shelters, she claims are for thru hikers. We asked her to settle down, set up camp and we'd gather together our people in a short while. I thought we could work something out, but she wanted unconditional surrender, and her friend started demanding names and addresses then began loud cursing. They left in a huff after a while.
How can issues like this be resolved without conflict? There was nothing posted at the site and that shelter is so small. Also, we later heard she made the same statements the night before at plum orchard. (she had told us she'd hiked twenty miles that day, even though pulm is less then 8 miles) We wonder how much longer they will remain on the trail, depending only on staying in shelters. (ie: any further sightings of the painted red haired girl?)
:confused:
Funny, the same thing happened on Blood Mountain, except it was 4 thru hikers in the shelter that got run out by a group of scouts that came in loud and belligerent demanding they get the shelter. Similar thing happened with a group of scouts in Mass. It's not just thru hikers that can be obnoxious!
bloodmountainman
06-17-2009, 06:44
Funny, the same thing happened on Blood Mountain, except it was 4 thru hikers in the shelter that got run out by a group of scouts that came in loud and belligerent demanding they get the shelter. Similar thing happened with a group of scouts in Mass. It's not just thru hikers that can be obnoxious!
Probably, the best thing that can happen at Blood Mt. shelter, is to "get run out". Obnoxious groups "deserve" a night in that cold, damp, mousebox!
buckwheat
06-17-2009, 07:08
BS. NO hiker regardless of label has a priority at a shelter
I can't wait till some punk tries to toss me out of a shelter.
:banana
if group size is such an issue for folks, why does the atc, aldha, and other large groups and websites encourage thru-hikers? ... or is 2,000 hikers starting in ga in the spring not a large group?
Funny, the same thing happened on Blood Mountain, except it was 4 thru hikers in the shelter that got run out by a group of scouts that came in loud and belligerent demanding they get the shelter. Similar thing happened with a group of scouts in Mass. It's not just thru hikers that can be obnoxious!I agree, some of the most obnoxious hikers I've ever come across are scouts and their leaders. It's things like this that drive me to avoid shelters like the plague. Like someone else stated, no one has ever come up to me and demand I give them room in my hammock or let them have the 2 trees that I'm hung from.
I agree, some of the most obnoxious hikers I've ever come across are scouts and their leaders. It's things like this that drive me to avoid shelters like the plague. Like someone else stated, no one has ever come up to me and demand I give them room in my hammock or let them have the 2 trees that I'm hung from.
and some of the nicest hikers i have ever lead are scouts and their leaders... :)
warraghiyagey
06-17-2009, 08:32
I agree, some of the most obnoxious hikers I've ever come across are scouts and their leaders. It's things like this that drive me to avoid shelters like the plague. Like someone else stated, no one has ever come up to me and demand I give them room in my hammock or let them have the 2 trees that I'm hung from.
Is there room for me in that hammock?:)
Is there room for me in that hammock?:)
maybe if you brought him biscuits... with sugar
Is there room for me in that hammock?:)Nope, but I bet VonFrick would fit well. :eek:
Lemni Skate
06-17-2009, 09:07
I honestly have never had an episode at a shelter where people were rude to one another. I never stay in them (but I camp near them) unless I think I'm going to be alone and the bugs are not out. I like sitting around and chatting. When I go with my two kids I feel like I'm always having to tell them to quiet down because they usually get a miracle burst of energy at a shelter and I feel like they could be driving people nuts.
When I see a group of scouts somewhere I move along unless I've always set up camp.
Don't get me wrong. I love scouts, but I know there's going to be more enthusiasm from them than my cynical old bones can handle.
Anyone demanding shelter space for any reason except a REAL emergency should be hung from a bear pole.
I believe shelter rules are generally this. First come...first served. Get your sleeping stuff down if you intend to claim a spot.
In the Smokeys you need to have reservations unless you a thru hiker and even then I think there's only two spots for thru hikers.
In Shenandoah you have to be a "Long distance hiker" at least three nights out in the "wildereness" in a row. So, in Shenandoah and the Smokeys thru-hikers would be within their rights to kick out someone who just hiked in from the road, but my problem with that is how do you know someone is really a thru-hiker?
Jim Adams
06-17-2009, 11:49
Although it really isn't wilderness it is labeled wilderness and if you are not able to spend the night within your own resources then you shouldn't be out there.
I have had Boy Scout groups act obnoxious and be rude at times and I have also had great times with them...either way they have just as much right to hike and camp on the AT as anyone else no matter what the size of their group...it is now and always was first come / first served.
The young lady in question should have been told to stop whining and hike!
geek
papa john
06-17-2009, 11:52
Tear 'em all down....that will put an end to that.
Tear 'em all down....that will put an end to that problem.
there is no problem, just whiners. and i agree, tear them down.
Why didn't you just tell the red haired studded nose girl that you were thru hikers?
Jack Tarlin
06-17-2009, 13:01
Sorry you had this experience, as it is not indicative of what all thru-hikers are like. Sounds to be that you just ran into a bad bunch.
As other posters have pointed out, nobody has an inherent "right" to shelter space, and this includes thru-hikers. Shelters are first-come, first served, until they're full up, period. And the fact that one isn't carrying a tent or other shelter doesn't give them any special rights or privileges when it comes to getting space in a Trail shelter. People that forego tents and tarps do so at their own risk.
That being said, groups of fifteen or sixteen shouldn't be staying at Trail shelters, either, and in fact, shouldn't be travelling anywhere on the A.T. in groups that large. At shelters, large groups tend to end up dominating the entire site, and groups of younger people are, by their nature, louder and more boisterous, and their presence and noise definitely has an impact on other folks. For all these reasons, bigger groups would probably do better to NOT plan on staying in or near Trail shelters, but instead, would do better to find larger group sites, or to tent well away from a shelter assuming space permits. Groups such as scouts and school/camp/church groups would also learn more outdoor skills this way, too, as opposed to depending on sleeping in a pre-existing structure like a shelter or cabin.
The thru-hikers in this incident were clearly way out of line and ones at fault here, but then again, if this group hadn't been so large, or hadn't moved into the shelter, none of this unpleasantness would have happened.
Plodderman
06-17-2009, 14:27
Have ran into some similar problems with large groups at Shelters even in the Smokies when I have had reservations. If it is first come first serve at other places then that works of me. Usually common sense rules but you know the old adage "You can not fix stupid" and if someone is going to act like that you just have to make the best of it.
Anyways it always helps to have a Plan B on the trail.
I've never had a "bad" shelter experience but I've had times when I was glad when morning came and I could leave because the chemistry between everyone was so bad.
vonfrick
06-17-2009, 15:38
Nope, but I bet VonFrick would fit well. :eek:
:p
but my problem with that is how do you know someone is really a thru-hiker?
that's easy, the smell