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Doc
06-28-2004, 13:07
Recently came back from Pearisburg and stayed at the Rendevous Motel at the trail crossing. Because of an unfortunate encounter with an irate hiker, Brenda is no longer accepting mail drops. Seems as though she was almost assaulted in some sort of scuffle and had to call the police. When I rolled in late in the day she was still wound about the whole ordeal and took all packages back to the post office. I assume she has not changed her mind about this, so keep this in mind if you had planned to use her place as a drop. She still does shuttles and has some rooms available.

Doc

Jack Tarlin
06-28-2004, 15:11
Too bad. Great place to stay; Brenda has been a friend to hikers for many years.

Incidentally, I'm aware of the incident and met this particular hiker in Hot Springs. He was decidedly unpleasant then; doesn't seem like the intervening weeks have improved him any. Can't WAIT to talk to the S.O.B. if and when he arrives in Harper's Ferry; I'm curious if this is how he treats women back home.

Sure hope he isn't planning on staying at any hostels for the next 1200 miles cuz he's in for a rather big surprise.

aaronthebugbuffet
06-30-2004, 23:03
what's this guy's name?

Frosty
07-01-2004, 09:03
no message

MOWGLI
07-01-2004, 09:34
Frosty, it's not the end of the world. There are plenty of places to resupply in Pearisburg. The only scenario I can envision that would be really problematic, is if someone is expecting some meds in a mail drop. If they have managed to make it 600+ miles to Pearisburg, I'm sure they can figure out how to get what they need. There is a huge Wal-Mart right next to the hostel in town.

This kind of situation will occur more frequently in the future if we as a community do not get our act together. I saw some disgusting behavior by a few indiividuals in 2000, and have heard of similar incidents every year since. Drunken rowdy behavior (assault), open drug use, belligerance to service providers, sneaking people into motel rooms (theft), expecting to be treated "special" because you are a thru-hiker, and the list goes on....

When you see someone doing something that has the potential to negatively impact hikers that will follow in your footsteps, IMO you have an obligation to speak up. Remember, we are guests in the communities that we pass through.

When I visit a town, I smile, say hello, engage in conversation, address people respectfully (yes Sir, no Ma'am), and am mindful that I am a visitor. I don't expect everyone to do as I do, but common courtesy should be the rule.

Little Bear

SGT Rock
07-01-2004, 09:44
I bet the service provider at the hotel didn't quit just because of one incident, probably had a few run ins. The thing is, that no one requires them to do this for hikers, sounds more like someone trying to be nice, and you see what you get sometimes when you try to be nice to someone. Apparently she still does shuttles - so she can take hikers to the post office, but messing around with mail just to get heartache about it isn't worth it. Personally if I were running a hostel or hotel, I wouldn't accept packages or pick them up for others either - just too many ways for trouble to happen from either the hiker (like in this case) or possibly the Postal Service for mail tampering in case anyone was to ever lodge a complaint to them about it.

The Old Fhart
07-01-2004, 09:54
We don't have all the facts but it sounds like the Rendevous Motel took the packages to the post office in Pearisburg, not send them back to the return address. That would mean the hikers would have to get the mile (aprox.) from the motel to the P.O. which would be an inconvenience. I'm not sure what the P.O. would say to this and whether they would hold them 30 days or what. I'll be looking for more updates here.

Any incident like this causes grief for every one involved. I know that would not make me happy if I found my package not there thru no fault of my own and depending on the number of packages involved you are going to have some unhappy hikers talking about this up and down the trail. I also understand the motel's reaction and it isn't the first hiker related problem they have had. In 1998 police had to break up a fight between some hikers and at least one arrest was made. In any group there are a few who screw it up for the rest. It is too bad this happened but maybe it will be corrected in time.

smokymtnsteve
07-01-2004, 09:58
you run a motel or Campground or other business and deal with the public you run into a drunken or problematic person/customer from time to time. you must learn to deal with them. it is notthat hard...you ask them to leave and if they don't you call 911 and arrangements will be made...you do this to protect your other customers ..including other hikers who are your customers.

Most hikers are great folks and Rendevous motel as frosty has pointed out has profitted from hiker bussiness over the years. Hikers in good fatith have mailed thier personal belongings and entrusted this business with them since Rendevous Motel has agreeded to accept these packages. so the mangement has broken thier "promise" to other of thier customers because of the Actions of this individual. I agrre with Frosty. if this business doesn't want to accept mail for hikers anymore then very well..but to send back packages of folks that are completely innocent of any "wrong doing" and that had made plans according to this providers offer is pretty bad. I hope this business is taken out of the ALDHA companion and wingfoot's book for the next printing.

Lone Wolf
07-01-2004, 10:08
"Return to sender..." Good tune. Good lesson, don't do maildrops. It's hassle free. :)

Frosty
07-01-2004, 10:27
"Return to sender..." Good tune. Yeah. "No such number, no such zone."

Are you old enough to remember postal zones?

smokymtnsteve
07-01-2004, 12:22
Yeah. "No such number, no such zone."

Are you old enough to remember postal zones?

is Lone Wolf saying that this was a LOVERS SPAT?


and will hikers keep COMING BACK?

Jack Tarlin
07-01-2004, 12:22
Frosty....

Your words of admonition would carry a great deal more weigt if you'd contacted the Rendezvous for their version of events....or if you got your facts straight, neither of which you bothered to do.

The Hotel didn't send any parcels home. It removed them to the Post office where if hikers treated employess the way this particular SOB treated the motel proprietor, they'd be up on Federal charges.

Your argument that Trail businesses need to put up with this nonsense because they're a for-profit business is ridiculous. Nobody should have to put up with this sort of behavior.

By the way, I stareted this post by mentioning you don't know the facts of the case. The dispute arose over problems with a hiker attempting to pick up his mail; his unhappiness and displeasure deteriorated until the proprietor felt physiacally threatened and was forced to call the police for assistance. There is NEVER an excuse for a hiker to act this way, and for you to suggest that it's part of doing business, or that it happens to every hiker business sooner or later is insulting and absurd.

Also, it should be pointed out that half the people that send mail parcels to the Rendezvous don't even stay there, so this service is not done merely for profit; it is instead, a courtesy extended to hundreds of hikers over the years, many of whom never spent a dime at the place.....and this is the thanks the motel gets.

Lastly, you wax indignant about how transferring the other maildrop parcels elsewhere was "unforgiveable." Again, ridiculous. What was unforgiveable was what this guy did to someone who's only crime was trying to appease a hiker who wasn't worth the trouble.

What was inexcusable and unforgiveable, Frosty, was this guy's behavior, which triggered the hotel's policy change. But to evidently be more angry with the motel than with the jerk who caused the problem in the first placemakes it very clear that your priorities are out of whack.

Your anger is mis-placed and your complaint against the motel proprietor is uncalled for.

smokymtnsteve
07-01-2004, 12:33
Oh yea ////lets support punishing a group of people due to the actions of an individual...if this individual threatened the motel operator to the point that the post office would have had him on federal charges then the motel operator would and should be able to press charges and have this individual dealt with...why hold it agianst innocnet other hikers who have nothing to do with it..isn't that called Profiling...

a change of policy is the motels priviledge...but not ethically retro active ..I always call ahead and ask the business if they will accept maildrops if they say yes and agree they should honor thier word not change the way they would treat me or you due to the actions of a complete stranger.

isn't that called Profiling...

MOWGLI
07-01-2004, 12:37
Also, it should be pointed out that half the people that send mail parcels to the Rendezvous don't even stay there, so this service is not done merely for profit; it is instead, a courtesy extended to hundreds of hikers over the years, many of whom never spent a dime at the place.....and this is the thanks the motel gets.



Thanks Jack. IMO, if you send a package to a motel or hostel along the trail (instead of a local post office) you should be prepared to stay there. If for some reason you can't, you should offer the business some compensation for holding your parcel.

Doc
07-01-2004, 14:08
To clarify further, Brenda simply took the parcels to the local PO where they will be held until the hikers pick them up. They were not sent back.

Brenda was clearly traumatized by this hiker, as most of us would have been. She may have over-reacted from our perpective, but we were not threatened with attack. How many of us would pick up a hitch-hiker in the afternoon if during the morning we picked up a guy, as is our habit, and then were threatened with physical attack. I think that I would re-think my acts of kindness and admit that some might pose a real threat. I would certainly be very shy about heading back out and picking up another hiker for some time, if ever. This basically seems to be what happened to Brenda-very understandable.

Doc

Blue Jay
07-01-2004, 14:29
Over the years I have frankly become amazed any service provider accepts hiker "business". For every Uncle Johnny, I've seen hundreds of cheapskate, ungrateful hikers treating local service providers badly, sometimes due to alcohol, sometimes just because they feel intitled to special treatment because they are the almighty thru. Even on this forum there is always someone who derides a service provider for either causing their own victimization or for their reaction to it. On another thread someone complained about a $35 cost of a 33 mile shuttle. Talk to any of our valued friends in trail towns and they can talk all night about the ungrateful wretches that haunt the trail. I agree with Baltimore Jack on this one. This person is more than completely justified in her actions. Staighten up boys and girls or it's going to be a long way between resupply. Self policing would help, please pubicize this "hiker's" name.

smokymtnsteve
07-01-2004, 14:40
am certainly unaware of all the facts in this incident but if this "hiker" threatened this motel operator...why were not charges pressed against the the person doing the threatening? certainly if "he" (I am assuming it was a male, but one never knows) threatened someone he should have been charged and identified so as to protect the rest of the trail community and service providers..rather than penalizing others who had nothing to do with it.

Frosty
07-01-2004, 14:54
no message

Tim Rich
07-01-2004, 14:54
To clarify further, Brenda simply took the parcels to the local PO where they will be held until the hikers pick them up. They were not sent back.

Brenda was clearly traumatized by this hiker, as most of us would have been. She may have over-reacted from our perpective, but we were not threatened with attack. How many of us would pick up a hitch-hiker in the afternoon if during the morning we picked up a guy, as is our habit, and then were threatened with physical attack. I think that I would re-think my acts of kindness and admit that some might pose a real threat. I would certainly be very shy about heading back out and picking up another hiker for some time, if ever. This basically seems to be what happened to Brenda-very understandable.

Doc

I think Doc makes a good point. When a well-discussed incident occurred last year of a hiker was being attacked by another hiker, the victim stopped hiking because she no longer felt safe. This was in spite of the attacker being removed from the trail. The motel owner apparently feels the same way. It's unfortunate that future hikers won't have the benefit of her hiker-related services, but it's her choice to offer them.

A-Train
07-01-2004, 15:21
Blue Jays comment about it being a long distance between resupplys is pretty untrue though I assume you were exagerating. Wades Supermarket is ON THE AT. Screw the maildrops like wolf said. Grocery shop and dont waste ur time going into that place.

Altho I do appreciate motels/businesses offering the service, especially for those who do not make lodging accomadations.

MOWGLI
07-01-2004, 15:32
A-Train, I believe what Blue Jay meant was, if we don't behave, we won't be welcome in establishhments along the trail. I have seen & heard enough to know that if we are not careful, that could indeed be true.

One example... I used to live near Vernon, NJ. In 2001, Bride & Groom and a bunch of other hikers drank alcohol in the Vernon Church Hostel. They also did not pick up after themselves and according to the caretakeer, they "trashed" the place. The hostel nearly closed as a result. In fact, the caretaker went up to the Wawayanda Shelter and named all the hikers (in the register) who trashed the place. It was a very serious situation.

So... if we don't take care to be respectful, others will make decisions that we won't like.

chomp
07-01-2004, 15:47
Over the years I have frankly become amazed any service provider accepts hiker "business". For every Uncle Johnny, I've seen hundreds of cheapskate, ungrateful hikers treating local service providers badly, sometimes due to alcohol, sometimes just because they feel intitled to special treatment because they are the almighty thru. Even on this forum there is always someone who derides a service provider for either causing their own victimization or for their reaction to it. On another thread someone complained about a $35 cost of a 33 mile shuttle.
Wow, Blue Jay, you can't even keep your complains to one thread on this one, huh? Frankly, its people like you that cause most of the problems. And if you are wondering what I mean by "people like you", I'll provide a definition: Someone thinking that their opinion is the "correct" one all of the time, and belittling those with a different opinion for being wrong, or "cheapskate, ungrateful."

Sorry to bring up a topic from another thread, but our "friend" Blue Jay decided to attack me so I feel compelled to reply. If I buy something online, I expect to get the goods for the agree upon price. If I don't get the goods, or I get overcharged, I would be upset. If I arranged a shuttle and, according to the service provider, I should have paid $30, I don't expect to have to pay $35 and suck it up with a smile. If you are running a business and treating it like a business, then act like a reputable business. Gull Pond is no Kincora. If you want to stay there, fine, but that is my opinion.

As for the topic of this thread - I do think that the action taken was a little excessive.. but understandable. She was not getting paid to hold the packages, nor had she entered into a contract or anything like that with the hikers to hold the packages. Yes, she had told people that they would hold packages for free.. but things change. If you make a reservation at a place that burns down, do you still expect to get a room? While this isnt quite that extreme, its close. Being put in a threatning situtation just because you hold packages for hikers... as a courtesy.. well, I can understand her reaction.

I just hope that every hiker that goes through there now will be extra nice. Its takes a lot of good people to offset the one a-hole.

Mags
07-01-2004, 16:24
We can debate if a business is obligated to hold packages or not..BUT, the real problem is that another business is less hiker friendly because of that "One hiker out of ten" who caused a problem. As more hikers go on the AT (and other trails) , the "one hiker out of ten" increases in numbers. More hikers = more idiots. Most hikers are good people. All it takes is one idiot to ruin it for all.

Leave no trace in town as well as in the woods. Say "Please" and "Thank you". Realize that many businesses along the trail help us out of courtesy and are not obligated to go out of their way. Tip the waitstaff well at the restaraunt. Try not to leave a mess behind in your hotel room. If a church hostel says no alcohol and no pets...then don't bring pets or alcohol into the hostel. You get the idea.

All little things...but all things that can a long way to helping out the reputation of our community.

Jack Tarlin
07-01-2004, 19:01
Some good posts here....Mags, Chomp, hey , even Blue Jay!!

Ahh, then we get to Frosty. You still seem to think the Motel was vindictivie and unfair to "innocent" folks by changing their maildrop policy.

Earth to Frosty. In this life, we pay for our screwups. In some cases, we pay for other people's.

Case in point and example: Last year, when we we all arrived in Hanover looking forward to a good place to stay and rest before heading into the White Mountains; we discovered that the ONE remaining Dartmouth residence Hall that still took in hikers (the others having long since closed their doors do to abuse and assholic hikers) had just decided hours before that they were no longer taking in thru-hikers. The reason: A hiker had gotten stupidly drunk, picked a fight with one of his student hosts, and before getting restrained, had to practically be knocked out with an iron skillet. The reaction? Hikers were informed the next morning, that with great reluctance, the residence hall was closed to hikers, effectively IMMEDIATELY. And fifteen hikers found themselves on the pavement.

What this meant was that there was no longer an affordable place for hikers to stay in town. What it meant was that hundreds of hikers badly needing a place for R&R either before entering, or having just finished the White Mountains, could no longer count on a great place to stay while they enjoyed the great Trail town of Hanover. What this effectively meant was that a lot of folks who'd planned some badly needed down time in Hanover didn't get it, all because of one thoughtless idiot.

That's what happened. But there are no doubt people who think the dorm was being punitive and unfair. (Still there Frosty?) Well, try this on for size: Should the dorm have stayed open even after one of its residents was assaulted? Should they still have kept their doors open to a dozen strangers every night even after oner of them had repaid the house by attacking one of its residents? Should the house have said "Gosh, this was one bad apple! How un-Christain to punish others based on the ill-considered behavior of just one!!"

Well, this is NOT what the house did. And nor whould it have. Instead, their reaction was fair, proper, and expected. They realized they were getting taken advantage of and abruptly decided that courtesy and kindness to hikers wasn't worth the trouble.

And you know the funny thing, Frosty? None, and I mean NONE of the dozens of hikers I discussed this with held it againnst the students or the dorm. Instead, they quite rightly blamed the hiker for f******things up for hundreds of other folks whon eeded that place. Nobody blamed the dorm, Frosty, nobody trotted out your peace and love, goo-goo "can't we all get along" twaddle about how it'd be unfair to punish everyone cuz of the actions of one idiot. On the contrary, the hikers realized that the hospitality of Panarchy House was a privilege and not a right, and that staying there was not something to be taken for granted. The privilege of being a guest there was horribly abused; therefore the privilege ended. Period. The fact that many folks had to suffer because of the actions of one was NEVER debated,and for good reason: Nobody disputed how horrible the incident was, and nobody disputed that the dormitory's reaction to it was entirely understandable and justified. Ane EVERYONE who got to Hanover last August or September realized this, and NOBODY held it against the dorm.

(Gee....how do I know this? Cuz I got to town right after it happened, and ended up taking eight zero days, and put up a lot of folks at my place. Not ONE of the folks I talked to blamed the house for its actions, or said they were being unfair...not ONE said the house was negligent in its promises to thru-hikers as far as providing lodging. There was a tacit understanding on the part of all the hikers that the house was blameless and that their new policy was entirely justified).

In short, Frosty, your anger is misdirected and you're still blaming the wrong person. Bottom line is that when hikers screw up in Trail towns, other people suffer. It ain't fun and maybe it's unfair, but that's the way it is: Service providers are under no obligation to perform favors and to grant kindnesses to people who treat them like crap. And eventually, they get tired of it.

Moral of story: Treat people right and behave like an adult, especially towards folks who are doing you favors. And if you see someone screwing up or acting badly, then intervene. All too often, bad behavior is witnessed by other hikers who are too gutless to intervene before things get out of hand.

But what you don't do is blame the service provider for over-reacting. The reaction here was understandable, normal, and probably overdue.

Pencil Pusher
07-01-2004, 19:46
I was going to use some names from a few threads here, but Tim Rich summed it up well, sans names. I agree with her decision to end the mail service.

Frosty
07-01-2004, 22:05
no message

Jack Tarlin
07-01-2004, 22:27
Geez, lemme get this straight, Frosty: You don't care about this one way or another, but you cared enough to be one of the first folks to chime in on this thread......and the first to take the motel and its owners to task.

You don't want to pass moral judgements but in your own words, the actions of the motel owners was a "deplorable" over-reaction, one so grave that not once, but twice, you deemed it "unforgiveable."

Sure sounds like moral judgment to me.

To repeat what I said previously: You passed quick judgment on a matter whose details you had no firsthand knowledge of, and in so doing, you said harsh and unkind things about great folks who've run a fine place, and have bent over backwards for years to help thru-hikers. The fact that these folks are known to me personally is irrelevant, tho it is to be expected that one gets upset when hearing that someone you know, like, and respect has been harassed and assaulted in her own workplace and home.

In closing: The Rendezvous Motel and its proprietor did absolutely nothing wrong here, and for folks to do anything but roundly condemn the hiker responsible for the problem is simply wrong.

This guy is lucky his name isn't being publicized all over the Trail, and luckier still that the Rendezvous didn't, for whatever reasons, pursue legal action.

And that's that.

Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 01:29
Frosty sounded like he was trying to end it amicably.

Jaybird
07-02-2004, 07:51
Doc:



Thanks for the report about the Rendezvous Motel & the TRAIL NEWS!


i plan to end my 2005 section-hike in Pearisburg,VA & appreciate the news &
the general feeling of those owners/operators of motels, hostels, & area accomodations toward hikers.

We have to remember...whether we like it or not...we are "ambassadors" to the rest of the world....


If ONE of us hikers....acts up...does something stupid...it reflects on us ALL!

Jack Lincoln
07-02-2004, 08:40
Frosty is absolutely correct and, you, Jack Tarlin, are totally wrong in, essentially, attempting to trash Frosty when he had nothing whatsoever to do with the incident. He was merely stating his opinion. Like you do so often, Jack!

Furthermore, any business establishment on the trail is there to generate revenue for the owner. Therefore, it their responsibility to provide for the security of their customers, the property of the customer if they accept it and
implied service in keeping with their position as a business in their particular community.

Jack, of course, as usual, attempts to take posters here to task, as if, somehow, they were responsible for each and every happening of negative trail behavior. Of course, he never got drunk and played the fool! Ha!

So, Jack, your belief in upholding all of the laws of the land should stand you in quite good stead; perhaps the victim, (your interpretation), might have been well withing their rights to have pressed charges. They did not!

How bad was it then?

gravityman
07-02-2004, 10:20
Furthermore, any business establishment on the trail is there to generate revenue for the owner. Therefore, it their responsibility to provide for the security of their customers, the property of the customer if they accept it and
implied service in keeping with their position as a business in their particular community.



I for one APPECIATE the buisnesses on the trail, and don't take them for granted. If you feel otherwise, according to your own philospophy, vote with your dollars if you don't like what a trail buisness is doing. What I find VERY accommidating is that most hotels offer a hiker rate. I think that this is above and beyond the call of duty. But maybe it is just good buisness sense.

I doubt that the Rendevouz actions or future refusal of mail drops will effect their buisness one bit. But you can always stay at the hostel if you don't want to stay at the hotel!

Of course DON"T FORGET TO LEAVE A DONATION. When we stayed there Bill was lamenting about how few people actually leave one... There's another sure way to get trail hostels to shut down!

Gravity Man

Lone Wolf
07-02-2004, 10:23
The Place in Damascus is notorious for getting stiffed.

MOWGLI
07-02-2004, 10:30
The Place in Damascus is notorious for getting stiffed.

When I stayed at the church hostel in Pearisburg, the caretaker opened the money box to find payment for less than half of the headcount who had stayed there the night before. He cussed and fumed a bit, and seemed to indicate that this wasn't the first tiime that had happened.

What a shame. Are there really people out there who are so cheap that they wouldn't place $5 or $8 in a kitty in exchange for some hospitality out of the elements?

Little Bear

Frosty
07-02-2004, 10:45
no message

Jester2000
07-02-2004, 19:07
A-Train, I believe what Blue Jay meant was, if we don't behave, we won't be welcome in establishhments along the trail. I have seen & heard enough to know that if we are not careful, that could indeed be true.

One example... I used to live near Vernon, NJ. In 2001, Bride & Groom and a bunch of other hikers drank alcohol in the Vernon Church Hostel. They also did not pick up after themselves and according to the caretakeer, they "trashed" the place. The hostel nearly closed as a result. In fact, the caretaker went up to the Wawayanda Shelter and named all the hikers (in the register) who trashed the place. It was a very serious situation.

So... if we don't take care to be respectful, others will make decisions that we won't like.

Actually (just to clarify), this happened in 2000, and I was with the first group of hikers to arrive after the group that included Bride and Groom. We were horrified at their behavior which included (according to the pastor) DOWNLOADING PORN. IN A CHURCH.

The group I was with took a zero and cleaned the entire undercroft of the church, including kitchen, bathrooms, and deck, but by far the best thing I saw was Burly mowing the lawn (don't see many hikers doing that).

Now, I'm no saint. And frankly, I wanted to take a zero day. But we all figured we wanted to do something to balance out the bad behavior of others.

As for the role of alcohol in all of this, I can tell Jack Lincoln (and others) that I have certainly, on occasion, gotten drunk and played the fool. But I have never done so when it was made clear to me that drinking was unacceptable (as in Kincora), or when (as in a church) such things should be obvious.

So you CAN drink and have hostel owners like you. So maybe the question is less about drinking and more about maturity and respect.

Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 19:45
We were horrified at their behavior which included (according to the pastor) DOWNLOADING PORN. IN A CHURCH.

That must be one high tech church to have internet access inside it!

MOWGLI
07-02-2004, 19:51
Actually (just to clarify), this happened in 2000, and I was with the first group of hikers to arrive after the group that included Bride and Groom. We were horrified at their behavior which included (according to the pastor) DOWNLOADING PORN. IN A CHURCH.



Thanks for the clarification Jester. You have refreshed my memory. I finished on August 21, and my first trip back to the AT was to the Wawayanda Shelter. I lived about 10 minutes from the trailhead at the time.

While there I read an entry from the hostel caretaker about the incident. It listed something like 6-8 names from that group. While it may seem like I'm singling out B & G, they are the only names I remember. I wish I recall all the names of the folks involved (real & otherwise) 'cause I'd post 'em here without hesitation.

Concerning alcohol, I have no problem with folks enjoying an adult beverage. It''s how you handle yourself around other folks after you drink.

Jack Tarlin
07-02-2004, 20:06
How delightful to hear again from Mr. Lincoln.

A few quick comment about his post: A Trail business is under no obligation to continue doing favors for hikers after performing similar favors gets them disrespected, insulted, and assaulted. You evidently didn't read my last post, Mr. Lincoln. Check out what happened in Hanover last summer: As I said before, nobody was surprised, and nobody was angry at the Dartmouth house that closed their doors: In short, their kindness, hospitality, and thoughtfulness was repaid by an incredibly ugly scene that reflected poorly on the whole hiking community.....why on earth should they have been expected to still cater to hikers after this? And why on earth should the Rendezvous have been expected to do the same after what happened there?

Lincoln also mentions that charges were dropped and legal action was not followed thru after the Pearisburg incident. He seems to think this minimizes the incident. Really? I dunno what the end result was. I don't know all the details. For all I know, legal matters were deferred or dropped as a favor to the hiker. But the bottom line is Mr. Lincoln doesn't know either. He hasn't talked to anyone in Pearisburg, as I have, or talked to other hikers who were in town at the time, as I have. In short, he doesn't know what he's talking about. So he should give it a rest.

Lastly, I have no intention of debating this matter further, at least not with Lincoln. He made a point of lecturing me about my posts, and what I include in them. I can't help but notice that in his seven posts to Whiteblaze since gracing us with his presence since late April, four of them were either about me, or directed at me.

I'm sorry he has nothing else to talk about or nothing more useful to contribute here than whining about me.

But if all Jack Lincoln can find to talk about is Jack Tarlin, well he really needs to find a new hobby.

Lugnut
07-02-2004, 23:55
Jack, don't your legs ever get tired from jumping down the throats of those who disagree with you? :rolleyes:

Blue Jay
07-03-2004, 07:16
Jack, don't your legs ever get tired from jumping down the throats of those who disagree with you? :rolleyes:

You must not read this forum very often as Jack lets a great deal slide off his back without comment. We disagree on a great many things but one area we are in complete agreement is defending the wonderful people along the trail that make the AT the great place it truly is.

Lugnut
07-03-2004, 10:34
BlueJay, I do read this forum almost every day and have since it first started. My post was mostly tounge in cheek and I agree that Jack's post are almost always helpful and well though out. He is a valuable and important member of this forum. However, having said that: In my opinion suspending maildrops during hiking season after being listed as accepting them is both spiteful and petty. Whatever this idiot did to piss Brenda off should have been dealt with on an individual basis, not taken out on innocent hikers following. Bob Peoples or Gary Poteat wouldn't react in this shoot from the hip manner. Even the "despised" Uncle Johnny wouldn't have done this, but I'd bet that if he had the same people supporting this action would have used it as another example of how UJ is screwing over everyone.
I'm not supporting UJ or slamming Brenda - it just seems that it depends on who your friends are that determines what side of the fence you're posting from.

smokymtnsteve
07-03-2004, 11:36
"Now a promise made is a debt unpaid, and the trail has its own stern code."

Robert Service "Cremation of Sam McGee"

MOWGLI
07-03-2004, 11:54
The fact that some folks on this thread think that some sort of travesty has been foisted upon the poor hiking community strikes me as an overraction. It also leads me to conclude some of the following things;

Some of you clearly overestimate the importance of maildrop resupply along the AT.

Some of you clearly underestimate the resourcefulness of the long distance hiker.

Some of you don't realize that due to the fact that it's July, this will have a minimal impact on the hiking community.

Some of you are more worried about a hiker being inconvenienced than a service provider being treated rudely or even abusively by a member of our community, the hiking community.

It's that last one that really has me concerned. I see it over & over again on the trail and in these threads. HYOH, if it feels good do it, and on & on.

Folks, I have no doubt that this is only going to get worse in the years to come. The days of politeness and manners appears to be long gone. I sincerely hope that I am proved wrong.

Little Bear

smokymtnsteve
07-03-2004, 12:27
<<<Some of you clearly overestimate the importance of maildrop resupply along the AT.>>

Overestimate??? how funny! the types food that I eat are NOT available in most of the towns that the AT traverses. Fair trade organic peruvian coffee is Not generally available. also my book of the mile club which several hikers this year are participating in, is dependent upon the mails.


<<Some of you clearly underestimate the resourcefulness of the long distance hiker.>>

maybe we have overestimated the behavior of long-distance hikers...sounds like this bad behavior is SO COMMON, unlike the availibility of orgainc food.

maybe we should assume that most long distance hikers are bad and not deserving of civilization. mostly drunken bums.


<<<Some of you are more worried about a hiker being inconvenienced than a service provider being treated rudely or even abusively by a member of our community, the hiking community>>

I'm concerned that a supossedly threatening person is allowed to continue to travel and not be dealt with. A function of government should be to protect citizens from harmful persons...why were not legal measures brought against this supposed offender???..rather than allowing them to "get away" with this...self policing...is not allowed legally...but this person who was threatened could press charges and help the Hiking community (of which services providers are a member of) rather than "punish" innocent other hikers/customers, and allowing a threatening person to "get away", an oppoutunity and obligation to help "clean up" and "protect" was missed.

smokymtnsteve
07-04-2004, 10:23
see jack jump..it going to be a long one ;)

Jack Tarlin
07-04-2004, 10:57
Gee, first the Rendezvous' behavior was "deplorable" and "unforgiveable." Now we've moved on to decribing it as "spiteful and petty." Someone has even gone so far as to compare the level of hospitality and the treatment of hikers there as being worse than a certain well-known establishment in Erwin, which is such a ridiculous comparison that it merits no comment.

I'm disappointed to see Lugnut and others still have the energy to carp about the Motel's actions while having virtually nothing to say about the behavior that caused those actions to take place.

So let's try it again: Brenda's reward for years of doing favors for hikers, many of whom were not even her customers, was to be villified, abused, and mis-treated at her place of business-----which is also her home. She quite rightly felt that rather than risk a repeat of this episode, it was better to shift hiker mail to the Post Office, several minutes walk away. It should be pointed out that very few motels along the Trail accept hiker mail, and even fewer offer this service to non-guests, so it's not like she was revoking a service that is universal or always expected; on the contrary, she was revoking a PRIVILEGE, not a right, and she had excellent reasons for doing so, chiefly among them her desire that similar incidents not be inflicted again on herself, her staff, or her family.

A hiker screwed up, and messed things up for other hikers. Anger and condemnation should be directed sqarely at the person responsible, and NOT the service provider.

"Spiteful" and "petty"? Lugnut, give me a break. Compared to the words I'd use to describe the miserable wretch responsible for this situation, your words of admonition are pretty tame.

While tame, tho, they're still unwarranted. This thread isn't really about what a Service provider did in response to a shameful provocation: It is instead about the arrogance of some in the hiking community, who somehow feel that they're special and entitled---they come to believe that when strangers do them favors or kindnesses, that they somehow deserve it, and that these favors are some sort of inalienable right because they're thru-hikers. They act like petulant whiny children when these perceived thru-hiker "rights" are suspended or revoked. In fact, they feel so special that they're outraged when this occurs.

Nonsense.

I find it remarkable that there are still folks here who find the Motel's actions to be more objectionable than the ones that initiated their new policy. It was a HIKER that created this situation, and not a capricious flighty action on the part on an un-caring business owner. If a motel owner had been bitten by a thoughtless hiker's dog, and then re-acted by banning dogs from his business, would people be clamoring about the unfairness of it, that innocents would suffer, and that the owner was petty and spiteful? Hell, no.
They'd say the motel owner was justified in his actions, that the dog owner was entirely at fault, that the policy change was understandable, and that the hiker was glad he didn't end up with a court summons or a dead dog. In any case, it'd be apparent that it was a HIKER problem, and not a service provider problem.

I'm sorry more folks can't see this, but it is attitudes like this that have caused many Trail businesses to shut their doors or discourage hiker patronage, and it is behavior like this---and the acceptance of it---that will encourage more businesses and hostels to shutter their doors to us in the future.

Lone Wolf
07-04-2004, 11:15
MOWGLI16's post says it all. Tough s**t steve that you can't get your Peruvian hippy coffee. Drink Folgers. Celebrate self-reliance.

smokymtnsteve
07-04-2004, 11:18
MOWGLI16's post says it all. Tough s**t steve that you can't get your Peruvian hippy coffee. Drink Folgers. Celebrate self-reliance.

YIKES>>Folgers..no way. only fair trade organic for me!

perhaps you underestimate the resourcefulness of hippy organic hikers :D

Frosty
07-04-2004, 12:27
I sure do like this site better than the "other site." Here people usually aren't required to think any certain way, and are free to have their own opinion.

Sometimes this works better than other times, but it's nice to see no one banned for forming their own opinion, even when discussion gets wild.

Nice to have this forum. Thanks, Attroll

Lugnut
07-04-2004, 14:51
Jack, I have no problem with Brenda terminating the maildrops. I think she has just cause. My point is the timing. If you have yourself listed in WF's book or the Companion as accepting maildrops then you should honor that comitment. She has the option (and will no doubt take it) of having the information changed in next years guides.
I had little to say about the actions of the hiker that started this because no one has said what that action was. I did refer to him (again assuming since no one has said male or female) as an idiot. Pearisburg has a police force and the Rendezvous has a phone. The whole thing may have been just an over-reaction. Who knows!
Lastly, I didn't compare the level of service at the Rendezvous to "that hostel in Erwin", I only said that had that proprietor done this same thing there would be a different reaction from some posters.
I've stayed at Brenda's twice and had her shuttle me three times so far. She has always treated me very fairly and I would still recommend that hikers stop there. And you might learn some new words. :D

MOWGLI
07-04-2004, 16:22
YIKES>>Folgers..no way. only fair trade organic for me!

perhaps you underestimate the resourcefulness of hippy organic hikers :D

Steve, having hosted 2 coffee farmers in my home for a month in '99, I know a thing or two about coffee. The farmers were from a small town in the mountains of Costa Rica known as Monteverde. The place is paradise on earth! Here's a link to the roaster in the U.S. that distributes Monteverde coffee;

http://www.coffeetraders.com/monte.html

Few agreements between producers & distributors of coffee yield as many results for the farmers AND the environment as this one. It's also great coffee! I should know. I sold a few hundred pounds of it every year for a bunch of years. The profits were donated back to the Finca La Bella farm where my friends, the coffee farmers live. The UPS guy loved me! He said his truck smelled great for a week after each delievry of freshly roasted coffee.

Here's more info about the the project that the coffee sales benefit;

http://www.fcun.org/sanluis/

If any of you are thinking about traveling to Costa Rica, Monteverde has some amazing hiking opportunities. I wish I could afford to go back again - tomorrow.

Little Bear

P.S - as addicted to coffee as I am (big time!) I don't drink a drop of it on the trail. Only in towns.

smokymtnsteve
07-04-2004, 22:43
P.S - as addicted to coffee as I am (big time!) I don't drink a drop of it on the trail. Only in towns.

well I enjoy my coffee when I'm hiking..so much so that I carry a titanium french coffee press..why don't you drink coffee on the trail ??? you seem to really like it.

there ain't nothing like a whole grain pancake with cranberries covered in honey and then an big cup of good coffee in the morning. it is hard to find organic whole grain mixes in stores along the trail.

Pencil Pusher
07-04-2004, 22:57
I didn't believe it until I googled 'titanium french coffee press': http://www.rei.com/online/store/ProductDisplay?storeId=8000&catalogId=40000008000&productId=47781010&parent_category_rn=4500495
Foo foo coffee drinkers unite:p

smokymtnsteve
07-04-2004, 23:15
that's the one I have the 3-cup model...and if i'm going to carry a french press then I don't want run of the mill coffee ..I want to carry REAL GOOD coffee..it weighs the same as poor/average quality coffee. ain't nothing like a good cup of coffee in the cool morning. sometimes I make a pot at lunch too esp if it has been a cold rainy day.


I am not a thru hiker but did travel 500 miles (2 months) NOBO this spring, i carried
coffee press
2 pots w lid
frying pan
coffee cup
2 spoons
spatula
and enough fuel to make hot meals 3x a day plus Hot soymilk flavored with a herb tea bag/honey every night.

Pencil Pusher
07-04-2004, 23:20
No wonder the women love you:banana

Noggin
07-05-2004, 00:22
What are a couple of good sites to order organic coffee online, by the pound? (no multipound minimum orders)

Pencil Pusher
07-05-2004, 00:40
http://www.100%purecolumbiancoke.com

They sell organic coffee dirt cheap. All the dogs agree this stuff smells great! For some reason, they prefer to sell by the kilo.

MOWGLI
07-05-2004, 10:44
well I enjoy my coffee when I'm hiking..so much so that I carry a titanium french coffee press..why don't you drink coffee on the trail ??? you seem to really like it.



I suppose I still fall into the trap of making miles when I backpack. I prefer to get in 12-14 mile days, and so my morning routines are kept pretty minimal. I usually don't cook for breakfast.

I do yearn to get out and hike some areas in a slower more deliberate manner. One area I hope to expore in the fall is the Fires Creek Rim Trail in SW North Carolina. http://sherpaguides.com/north_carolina/mountains/snowbird_mountains/fires_creek.html

Maybe I'll carry some coffee with me along that trail and do the entire 26 miles over 4 days. That'll give me plenty of time to cook breakfast and explore all the side trails and overlooks I want.

If anyone interested in joining me, email me at jhunter@americanhiking.org.

I'll be back in the office on July 12 and will respond then.

Jeffrey Hunter

MOWGLI
07-05-2004, 10:50
What are a couple of good sites to order organic coffee online, by the pound? (no multipound minimum orders)

Noggin, I know you directed your question to SMS, but let me respond with my fave.

Monteverde Dark Roast
http://www.coffeetraders.com/AB1038043BStore/product1.asp?SID=17&Product_ID=484

I don't think Montana Coffee Traders has a multi pound minimum. If you do buy lots of coffee, do not put it in the freezer. It is better to store your coffee in glass jars. Quart sized mason jars work real well.

smokymtnsteve
07-05-2004, 11:42
I make breakfast and coffee and hot lunch and sstill make 15 mile days.

good breakfast and cup of couple cups of coffee will get ya going

smokymtnsteve
07-05-2004, 12:03
I buy my coffee from either Dekalb farmer's Market or from a local roaster

Jack Tarlin
07-05-2004, 18:47
Lugnut---

Hey, you're right; I'd love to learn some new words. But as long as people still don't get it, I'm forced to repeat myself and use some of the same ones....maybe the 9th time I say 'em, they'll get it. So let's try it one last time:

A service provider who is maltreated, abused, and dis-respected to the point where they feel they are in physical danger is under NO obligation to continue doing favors for hikers. Period. Oh...wait a minute.....she was listed in Wingfoot's book! Then it's all written in stone! How dare she deviate from the hiker bible!

Ridiculous. According to you, regardless of what happened to her while she was attempting to help a hiker, she's under an obligation to keep putting up with whatever bull**** that comes her way, cuz after all, she's listed in a hiker guidebook.

Hey! Earth to Lugnut: There's LOTS of things printed in the Handbook that ain't correct or true; the Hanover page alone contains several significant errors, so just cuz something appears in print in a book that was sent to the publisher in late fall doesn't necessarily mean that everything in the book will be 100% accurate the better part of a year later. And wise hikers realize this: Businesses come and go; prices change; accomodations change, and absolutely, policies and services are subject to change. Things change, and this motel holding deciding to hold hiker mail as a favor to hikers is one of them.

Lug, this argument is absurd. The really surprising thing is that hikers are still welcome there AT ALL, never mind their mail.

And lastly, Lug, your posts still don't make a whole lotta sense....you start out by explaining why you don't hold Brenda' feelings against her (Gosh! how magnanimous of you!) ...then you go on to state (yet again) why you feel she was wrong.

Tell you what, Lug: I'll start posting with new words when you start posting things that are consistent and sensible.

Geez, enough already.

smokymtnsteve
07-05-2004, 20:20
back in 1978 I used to live and work with some of these guys...they grow coffee now since moving to the Andes ...


http://www.andescoffee.net/CatalogStore.html

mdionne
07-05-2004, 20:39
ahhhh pearisburg! that was what this post was originally about right? the real place to stay is at papa squat's memorial shelter. dubbed by papa himself in '02. :clap

Lugnut
07-05-2004, 23:52
Jack, In matters concerning knowledge of the trail I will defer to you 100% of the time. If I knew only a portion of what you do I'd probably write a book. This subject, however, falls within the realm of opinion and I am as entitled to mine as anyone. I wish you would read my posts objectively and not construe them into something I didn't really say.
Anyway, it doesn't look like either of us is likely to change our minds, so lets just agree to disagree and call a truce. Fair enough? :)

Jack Tarlin
07-07-2004, 11:54
Consider it done!

Flash Hand
08-21-2004, 05:06
Good topic worth of reading.



So, after reading those, and made me wonder. There list goes on.

If it was thru hikers that caused the problem, and in the future, all thru hikers were denied the service.... Then I guess I will dress up, looking like a traveler, not in thru-hikers form, and thrashed the same place, would all travelers in the future denied the service?

I have seen A LOT of non hikers problem outside the Appalachian Trail, and nobody was denied the service after that.

Its too bad that they denied "HIKERS" after one or two hikers caused the problem.

Flash Hand :jump

Rendezvous_Motel
10-08-2004, 20:33
Consider it done!
Thank you for your kind words about me, The Rendezvous Motel and the place I call home. This is not only my home, it is a home for those who pass through. All the years you and others behind you that knows the Motel, Knows the Southern Hospitality that goes along with it. The behavior of the hiker in mention didn't only assult me (physicality) if it hadn't been for Cheryl (employee*** life line to the business when I'm not available)
stepping inbetween the two of us he would have really been in a world of trouble. That morning I had taken a hiker to Wind Rock came back and then one to Bland. I arrived back home by 9:30am to have my world rocked by this belligerent hiker. Cheryl stepped in and tryed to calm this man down and to no avail, I was then forced to call the police. I did give the man his mail drop and letters before the law arrived.(set them out on the side porch) That wasn't good enough he retalliated with sending the police back down here to search for more mail. Then he sent them down here again to threaten me with the postal inspector and what he felt he was entitled to. Well this took up the rest of my morning and into the afternoon. I went to the insurance office to see if I was to file a claim.(because of this threat) then to the post office to see what kind of sanctions would be on his claim. Post Master told me not to worry with it. He had been there and was unrulley.Said he had 300.00 dollars of supply in the box and didn't put insurance on it. His loss and not my gain. I have received many mail drops and never not once have I been called a theif or been treated like that. Jack as you remember the times if I were to busy to drive hikers up the hill into town I would give them the keys to MY vechile and they would drive themselves. To sum it up I will lift the sanctions on the mail drops and begin to receive mail for the hikers of 2005. The ones that came UPS I held so they wouldn't be sent home. The Post Office in Pearisburg has agreed to hold all packages for the hikers knowing the circumstances and didn't do a return to sender. Now I hope this clears up some negitive views that is out there. I enjoyed seeing you and your friend on your way to ALDHA today. Thanks again for you respect and acts of kindness. We Love The Notorious Baltimore Jack...Pearisburg Virginia.....Signing Off till next time:>

Youngblood
10-09-2004, 11:01
...Said he had 300.00 dollars of supply in the box and didn't put insurance on it...>

Thanks for the post, it helps clear things up to get a first hand account. I'm choosing to only talk about the value issue, not because the rest isn't important, but only because I want to make this one point.

Be careful how you have things of value sent to you. If you are using maildrops you can use the post office or private businesses that will accept and hold them for you. Private businesses are often more convenient because of being open on weekends and later in the day. However, they don't offer the security that the post office does and should not be expected to... and you should take that into consideration when you plan maildrops that you absolutely must get.

Youngblood

beatbox
10-19-2004, 14:08
Just a quick note on Trail Policing.

I know who this hiker was and I met him in the Smokies, Damascus and again Glencliff. He is old and stubborn and readilly admitted it. Furthermore he had received appropiate response from hikers up and down the trail. While I believe what he did to be completely wrong, he was a different man when I met him in Glencliffe. The was he was treated in response to this incident (and sadly, others) was finally starting to help him see his own pride and anger issues. The point is this - What he did was WRONG, but the response of other hikers to him was right. Because of how he was reacted too hikers may have helped prevent him from making a bad name for hikers further up the trail. Further more numerous hikers warned hostels of this man ahead of time from there on out. So I send a way to go out there to every one who told this man what they truly thought and defended our image as hikers. Sorry to write so much, Beatbox ttt.

Magic City
10-19-2004, 16:12
You might not like profiling, but it's human nature.

When kids come into my cafe, they seldom buy anything, are often disruptive, and tend to leave a mess. Paying customers are sometimes put off by them.

But the kids who come in here are local, so I can easily pick and choose the ones who are not disruptive, noisy slobs, and discourage those who are. Some of those who are disruptive and noisy are nevertheless amusing, so I might choose to put up with them. Some kids become less disruptive and noisy over time, and learn not to leave a mess.

I know these kids, and they can come to know me, so we can make adjustments in the way that we treat one another over time.

But the chances are that a thru-hiker is going to come through here only once, and seldom more than once a year, so we rarely get to know one another as individuals, with some notable exceptions.

What is left is profiling, as I have nothing else to go on. I could call it discretion, if I wanted to be politically correct.

So far, my experiences with thru-hikers completing their hike here in Millinocket has been overwhelmingly positive. There was one guy who bought coffee and food across the street and brought it over here to use my Internet connection for free, but he was the exception.

Very few of the hikers who have come in here have spent much in the way of money, so it can't realistically be said that I'm dependent upon them for a living.

For that, I have to turn to the locals who will hopefully be coming in for coffee throughout the year, long after the Baxter Park authorities have shut Mount Katahdin down for the winter.

Some of the locals have been turned off by hikers, but they don't run screaming from the cafe when a hiker comes into the room.

When the hiker is respectful and civil and willing to talk, the locals take an interest. Believe it or not, most people in Millinocket would never think of walking home from Georgia.

Through the profiles that I have done in my online newspaper, and getting to know (at least to some extent) some of the hikers who come into the cafe, the locals come to see you as people worthy of respect, and perhaps even admiration, rather than as someone who doesn't look like he's had a bath in the past few months, and is to be avoided.

But unless or until we come to know a person, it is human nature to profile him according to past experiences, if there have been some, or by mere appearance, otherwise. It might not be fair, but it's what we do.

In time, there will be enough positive experiences to smother the occasional negative that might come around, but you can't just tell someone that profiling is wrong and expect that to settle anything.

zephyr1034
10-24-2004, 21:29
This has been an interesting thread, since I live in Pearisburg. I've been here since June 2003. I try to take a short hike every day, and my usual afternoon walk is a short stretch of the AT between Route 100 and the 460 bridge. That's the section that includes the Pearis Cemetery.

Whether you like the Rendezvous or not, you've gotta love that name! Sometimes I call it the 'vous for short.

About a year ago, I met a really strange guy on my daily walk. He came off the bridge southbound with a grocery bag from Wade's. A little later, I saw him sitting on the ground under a tree drinking beer, in 45 degree weather. He launched into a long tale about how the Pearisburg police were persecuting him and locking him up. He'd have gone on all day with his tale of woe if I'd stuck around.

A day or so later, I found a note in a waterproof bag attached to a tree. It "warned" hikers about the Pearisburg police, and was probably from this same guy.

I can do shuttles BTW since I'm retired. My number is 540-021-1184. I live up the hill from Wal Mart.

Tom