View Full Version : What Good are Hiking Poles?
Found this article on the web and thought you guys and gals would find it interesting.
What Good Are Hiking Poles?
Double hiking poles, held like ski poles, are becoming a common sight on the trail. Do they really make hiking easier?
Or, with their added weight, will they help you intensify your workout and burn more calories?
Researchers at Oklahoma State University tested these poles, not with vigorous arm swinging on a flat surface (which another study found increased exertion), but as a prop in walking uphill.
Twenty men were fitted with 33-lb (15 kg) frame backpacks, and walked uphill at 1 ½ mph at a gradually increasing grade for 5 minutes, then continued for 10 more minutes at a peak grade of 25 percent.
Whether they used hiking poles or not had no significant effect on their heart rate, breathing, oxygen consumption, or calories burned.
It did, however, affect the hikers' perceived exertion (RPE), which was lower when using hiking poles, especially towards the end of the 15-minute hike.
The stabilizing effect of the poles may have made the hiking seem more comfortable and therefore, easier, even though physiologically, exertion was the same.
Source: International Journal of Sports Medicine, July 2000; 21, 5, 356-359
Chenango
06-09-2009, 11:31
They definitely help my knees and have saved me from falling more than once.
take-a-knee
06-09-2009, 11:32
Found this article on the web and thought you guys and gals would find it interesting.
What Good Are Hiking Poles?
Double hiking poles, held like ski poles, are becoming a common sight on the trail. Do they really make hiking easier?
Or, with their added weight, will they help you intensify your workout and burn more calories?
Researchers at Oklahoma State University tested these poles, not with vigorous arm swinging on a flat surface (which another study found increased exertion), but as a prop in walking uphill.
Twenty men were fitted with 33-lb (15 kg) frame backpacks, and walked uphill at 1 ½ mph at a gradually increasing grade for 5 minutes, then continued for 10 more minutes at a peak grade of 25 percent.
Whether they used hiking poles or not had no significant effect on their heart rate, breathing, oxygen consumption, or calories burned.
It did, however, affect the hikers' perceived exertion (RPE), which was lower when using hiking poles, especially towards the end of the 15-minute hike.
The stabilizing effect of the poles may have made the hiking seem more comfortable and therefore, easier, even though physiologically, exertion was the same.
Source: International Journal of Sports Medicine, July 2000; 21, 5, 356-359
Did they make any 12-16inch step ups wearing a pack with out poles? Did they do any stream crossings?
They are definitely fashion. They are sometimes functional, but usually not.
There is a road race in town here that will have a Nordic Walking division this year. It has replaced the Cigar Walking division from a few years back. I suppose that's a good thing right. :rolleyes:
Alligator
06-09-2009, 11:44
The purpose of this study was to compare load carriage energy expenditure with and without using hiking poles. Twenty male volunteers aged 20 - 48 yr (Mean = 29.8 yr) completed two randomly ordered submaximal treadmill trials with poles (E) and without poles (C). Poles and load (15 kg backpack) were fitted for each subject according to the manufacturers' suggestions. Heart rates (HR), minute ventilation (VE), oxygen consumption (O2), caloric expenditure (Kcal), and rating of perceived exertion (RPE) were recorded at the end of each minute. Two trials separated by one week consisted of a constant treadmill speed of 1.5 mph and 1 min at 10 % grade, 2 min at 15 % grade, 2 min at 20 % grade, and 10 min. at 25% grade. Mean HR (E = 144.8 ± 24.4 b × min-1; C = 144.0 ± 25.7 b × min-1) and mean VE (E = 51.4 ± 15.8 L × min-1; C = 50.8 ± 17.0 L × min-1), V˙O2 (E = 26.9 ± 6.1 ml × kg-1 × min-1; C = 27.4 ± 6.6 ml × kg-1 × min-1), and Kcal (E = 10.6 ± 2.9 Kcal × min-1; C = 10.8 ± 3.1 Kcal × min-1) were not significantly different between the two conditions. RPE (E = 13.28 ± 1.2; C = 14.56 ± 1.2) was significantly lower (P < 0.05) with hiking poles. Analysis of paired time points yielded no significant differences in HR, V˙O2, VE, and Kcal, however, RPE means were significantly lower for 5 of the last 7 trial minutes with the use of poles. These results suggest that during load carriage on moderate grade, the weight and use of hiking poles does not increase energy expenditure but may provide reduced perceptions of physical exertion.
Alligator
06-09-2009, 11:46
A treadmill was used and they only went up.
Jayboflavin04
06-09-2009, 11:49
I think it is a cool study, but all laboratory and no real life scenario in there. It would be nice to see a long term study/stats on poles vs no-poles with hiking related injuries and distance ect.
garlic08
06-09-2009, 11:56
Right. Let's extrapolate a 2000 mile trail hike from a 15 minute treadmill study, and just climbing like Alligator pointed out. And who is participating in the study? Experienced hikers who know how to use the poles? And could you imagine using poles on a treadmill? I'm not sure I could. I don't use mine on smooth surfaces. I imagine the poles were just going along for the ride, or worse.
Cabin Fever
06-09-2009, 11:57
I think it is a cool study, but all laboratory and no real life scenario in there. It would be nice to see a long term study/stats on poles vs no-poles with hiking related injuries and distance ect.
Difficult to quantify because of different pain thresholds and subjectivity, but many people use them because of the reduced impact on knees. That's the reason for me. My knees are considerably less sore after a trip when using poles.
Alligator
06-09-2009, 11:59
I'm guessing the measurement equipment may be bulky and heavy.
They should have at least worked in a downhill by putting the treadmill onto a ramp, so that it was starting out reading zero but had an actual downhill slope. The study used only men as well.
vamelungeon
06-09-2009, 12:00
Not sure how you would use poles on a treadmill???? Mine have helped me keep from busting my a** on steep hills a couple of times where the footing wasn't solid. I can't see how that translates to a treadmill.
Found this article on the web and thought you guys and gals would find it interesting.
What Good Are Hiking Poles?
Double hiking poles, held like ski poles, are becoming a common sight on the trail. Do they really make hiking easier?
Or, with their added weight, will they help you intensify your workout and burn more calories?
Researchers at Oklahoma State University tested these poles, not with vigorous arm swinging on a flat surface (which another study found increased exertion), but as a prop in walking uphill.
Twenty men were fitted with 33-lb (15 kg) frame backpacks, and walked uphill at 1 ½ mph at a gradually increasing grade for 5 minutes, then continued for 10 more minutes at a peak grade of 25 percent.
Whether they used hiking poles or not had no significant effect on their heart rate, breathing, oxygen consumption, or calories burned.
It did, however, affect the hikers' perceived exertion (RPE), which was lower when using hiking poles, especially towards the end of the 15-minute hike.
The stabilizing effect of the poles may have made the hiking seem more comfortable and therefore, easier, even though physiologically, exertion was the same.
Source: International Journal of Sports Medicine, July 2000; 21, 5, 356-359
This isn't rocket science. It isn't possible to reduce the workload required to move X pounds up a hill. It is possible, however, to spread that workload from just the legs to the legs and arms / shoulders. To say that using hiking poles might reduce the required O2 consumption is just not feasible science and just because they didn't make any measurable difference in workload doesn't mean that you don't gain a measurable advantage from their use. The reduction in leg fatigue by sharing the workload leads to a greater average hiking speed over the course of a day and even more so over many days. And, as has been pointed out, they add a measurable level of safety to creek crossings and movement over technichal terrain.
This isn't rocket science. It isn't possible to reduce the workload required to move X pounds up a hill. It is possible, however, to spread that workload from just the legs to the legs and arms / shoulders. To say that using hiking poles might reduce the required O2 consumption is just not feasible science and just because they didn't make any measurable difference in workload doesn't mean that you don't gain a measurable advantage from their use. The reduction in leg fatigue by sharing the workload leads to a greater average hiking speed over the course of a day and even more so over many days. And, as has been pointed out, they add a measurable level of safety to creek crossings and movement over technichal terrain.
Well Put!:D
garlic08
06-09-2009, 12:14
This isn't rocket science. It isn't possible to reduce the workload required to move X pounds up a hill. It is possible, however, to spread that workload from just the legs to the legs and arms / shoulders. To say that using hiking poles might reduce the required O2 consumption is just not feasible science....
Good point. It's not like the poles could add energy to the system. But would you agree that it is slightly significant that adding the weight of the poles and adding the movement of the arms did not increase the work?
Lone Wolf
06-09-2009, 12:15
They are definitely fashion. They are sometimes functional, but usually not.
ditto.......
Alligator
06-09-2009, 12:17
This isn't rocket science. It isn't possible to reduce the workload required to move X pounds up a hill. It is possible, however, to spread that workload from just the legs to the legs and arms / shoulders. To say that using hiking poles might reduce the required O2 consumption is just not feasible science and just because they didn't make any measurable difference in workload doesn't mean that you don't gain a measurable advantage from their use. The reduction in leg fatigue by sharing the workload leads to a greater average hiking speed over the course of a day and even more so over many days. And, as has been pointed out, they add a measurable level of safety to creek crossings and movement over technichal terrain.I don't think that second sentence is necessarily true. There is a certain minimum amount of energy needed to move from A to B, but if the engines differ in efficiency that total requirement would differ.
ChinMusic
06-09-2009, 12:31
I don't think that second sentence is necessarily true. There is a certain minimum amount of energy needed to move from A to B, but if the engines differ in efficiency that total requirement would differ.
I agree here. BUT, I would think it would depend on terrain as to which method is more efficient.
On a smooth track I would think the poles would ADD to the energy level used.
On an uneven track I would think the poles would decrease the energy level used by taking pressure off the stabilizer muscles (improving balance and need to brace).
But energy level is not the key thing for me. Not falling on my *** is numero uno.
wrongway_08
06-09-2009, 12:33
waste of time study. You dont need a degree to figure out that the poles themselves are not going to do any of the work for you. They do however spread the weight, making you more likely to be able to hike longer.
All of these studies are done to justify people selling them to people that don't need them. Like most trends and mass marketing, they are over reaching. Besides, my wooden hiking staff just looks way cooler, and bears respect that. They have excellent taste in such matters.
ChinMusic, good point on the poles reducing the amount of work the stability muscles in your body need to do. Arguably if they decreased this type of work enough they could actually reduce the amount of energy your body uses while ascending and descending or on uneven terrain.
Jayboflavin04
06-09-2009, 12:42
not telling but asking? If a person (any activity) were to reach a target heart rate and max respiration(for their height weight and muscle mass). Would it matter if they were sprinting/or walking up a 20% grade with thirty pound on their back at 1.5 mph. Wouldnt it take the same amount of energy to supply the muscles mass with that energy. Isnt the point of poles to reduce load stress on joints not to give the "hiker" a magical energy boost, or less caloric consumption. The hiking poles dont give the hiker "extra gears" to reduce energy consumption.
Alligator
06-09-2009, 12:45
All of these studies are done to justify people selling them to people that don't need them. Like most trends and mass marketing, they are over reaching. Besides, my wooden hiking staff just looks way cooler, and bears respect that. They have excellent taste in such matters.That's just plain disrespectful JAK to researchers who simply have an interest in studying exercise. You have your unique interests, they have theirs.
Those are certainly plausible ideas Chinmusic. My opinion as well is that there may be some stability component that changes the amount of energy used. How much and is it significant:-??
Not meant to be disrespectful to the researchers, as long as they remain objective and scientific. Some of the papers are interesting, don't get me wrong. There wouldn't be so many papers on this if they weren't so damned trendy.
I read one paper that said they used the same energy uphill, but more energy downhill.
I agree its not really about the energy, but that is an interesting aspect of it.
I read another paper that said that 15% is the most efficient slope for ascending, and 10% is the most efficient slope for descending, and so 12% is the ideal slope for switchbacks all else being equal. Interestingly most traditional trails have switchbacks with about that slope more or less. Interesting stuff.
But I think alot of research is funded for the wrong reasons, even if it is still done right.
Article referencing an old study on slopes.
http://biomechanics.bio.uci.edu/_html/nh_biomech/hill_climb/climb.htm
And they make great tarp tent poles
Alaskanhkr23
06-09-2009, 14:33
i used to make fun of them untill i tried them out and WOW ur pace gets a little faster,balance is improved and it takes alot of weight of ur knee's
Cookerhiker
06-09-2009, 14:36
OK, let's stipulate that the study itself is honest, methodologically sound, & conducted in good faith. But the starting point is questionable. Why study the impact of poles uphill when so many hikers - as some posters have already noted - use the poles primarily to abate the stress on their knees when hiking downhill? Personally, I like them and feel they help on both ascents and descents but it's the latter where the benefit really exists. I only started using poles 5 years ago and doubt I could have finished the Trail without them especially some of those descents in Maine like Avery Peak.
Terraducky
06-09-2009, 14:44
Poles give me better stability when navigating thru rocky terrain. They have saved me from many a tumble! My husband uses one hiking staff and swears that's the way to go. Nobody has mentioned the other purposes of poles, my favorite being waving webs out of the trail so I don't end up wearing spiders!
Gear To Go Outfitter
06-09-2009, 15:24
Effects of hiking downhill using trekking poles while carrying external loads
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=17218900
"CONCLUSION: A reduction in the forces, moments, and power around the joint, with the use of poles, will help reduce the loading on the joints of the lower extremity."
if you're putting pressure on your poles it's taken pressure off you legs so you're spreading some of the work away from your legs so they don't fatigue as quickly, that's what i care about. And wacking the spider and inch worm webs out of the way.
FlyPaper
06-09-2009, 15:32
As someone who has had knee problems that required surgery on both knees and later hiked the AT, I say poles definitely help, especially going downhill.
I hope taxpayer money wasn't wasted on this study.
Interesting study.
I usually hike with 2, last trip I took only one. Long run it was easier on level ground with just one, up hill I think I missed the 2nd one, it was WAY NOTICABLE on the down hills. My knees may never recover.
I'll never hike without 2 again.
Trekking poles transfer some of the work/stress that the legs/knees/feet usually get, to the arms and other upper torso muscles.
I have been using mine not only when I go hiking but every day when I walk (3 miles) at home. Within a few months I lost 20 lbs above my waist, and have kept it off for over a year now. Most middle age guys fight to keep the upper body weight off. Here's a way to win that fight! Or if you prefer, remain barrel-chested and sit around and dream up marketing jokes about trekking poles! :) :p
brooklynkayak
06-09-2009, 18:25
They are definitely fashion. They are sometimes functional, but usually not.
It makes a huge difference for some, some only use them when ascending, descending or fording, some don't need them at all, at least till they get older and the joints start deteriorating.
For me, it is the one thing that allows me to backpack. Until discovering them I was limited to two mile hikes.
MintakaCat
06-09-2009, 18:41
Here’s an interesting experiment:
Find a ten story building and climb the stairs without using the handrails.
Then climb the stairs without using the handrails.
At that point you will know if using your hands makes a difference.
Is that a fair test? :-?
MintakaCat
06-09-2009, 18:42
Correction:
Here’s an interesting experiment:
Find a ten story building and climb the stairs without using the handrails.
Then climb the stairs using the handrails.
At that point you will know if using your hands makes a difference.
Is that a fair test? :-?
Correction:
Here’s an interesting experiment:
Find a ten story building and climb the stairs without using the handrails.
Then climb the stairs using the handrails.
At that point you will know if using your hands makes a difference.
Is that a fair test? :-?
On a similar note, go into any gym in the country and watch the people on the treadmills. As soon as most people get fatigued they grap the handrails for support. I've grabbed ahold just to see what it does for my heart rate and it ALWAYS drops. Now, the mechanics of hiking poles don't exactly reflect this experiment, but the principle of shared workload is the same, leading to decreased muscle fatigue.
As was mentioned earlier it is significant that carrying aproximately 8 ounces in the hands (the hiking poles) did NOT increase oxygen demand during the test. Since they had no effect on oxygen demand and yet the user was carrying more weight there was obviously a performance enhancing effect.
Since they are performance enhancing, maybe the use of hiking poles should be ruled out by the ATC as an unfair advantage during a thru hike attempt. Then we would all be on an even playing field and the time wasted during the mandatory monthly argument over their use could be spent actually hiking. ;)
A better test would be to climb and descend the stairs without handrails,
then climb and descend the stairs with hiking sticks.
Also try a treadmill with hiking sticks, on various slopes.
Personally, no thanks. I would rather just pack lighter.
But I do like a wooden hiking staff from a sapling when I hike with my daughter.
well i carried a hiking staff for awhile, but after doing close to 100 miles with 1 pole i noticed my right knee started hurting pretty bad. after i got off the trail i started to think of reasons why my 1 knee hurt and the other didn't. i deduced that i had a dominant hand/arm and that i tended to subconsciously carry the staff in that hand more often than not. i have no doubt this ended up impacting 1 knee in a negative way. it surely increased the amount of stress on that joint and my knee still hurts a bit. i'll be going out to get 2 poles shortly. ymmv
I switch the hiking staff back and forth a little, but my knees are pretty strong anyways. I really only carry it with my daughter because she likes them and its something we can make together and it might be handy if we surprised a bear. I'm still thinking a small child might be less tempting if there is a large person with a big stick. I like a hiking staff same height as I am. Weighs about 2 pounds from a maple sapling once it dries out. Scraping off some inner bark makes cool patterns.
If I did have bad knees I would go with 2 hiking sticks, and lose more weight, and carry less weight. I wouldn't carry 2 hiking sticks in order to be able to carry more weight. As it is I am planning on losing even more weight before I turn 50 as a preventative measure. I think less weight is the best measure against bad knees, and hiking sticks are more of a treatment after the fact. For younger folks without bad knees I think the best case for them is to give your arms some exercise. I think they actually use more energy when used in this way, but if that is what you are after its a good thing. Good training for cross country skiing also.
Part of the justification for carrying a hiking staff when hiking with my daughter is for the extra exercise. I have to slow down a little with her anyway, and it gives me something to lean on if she decides to doddle and I have to wait, and it gives me a way to keep time if I have to slow down to her pace. No, I don't beat her with it, but it is an option. ;)
Blue Jay
06-10-2009, 10:33
well i carried a hiking staff for awhile, but after doing close to 100 miles with 1 pole i noticed my right knee started hurting pretty bad. after i got off the trail i started to think of reasons why my 1 knee hurt and the other didn't. i deduced that i had a dominant hand/arm and that i tended to subconsciously carry the staff in that hand more often than not. i have no doubt this ended up impacting 1 knee in a negative way. it surely increased the amount of stress on that joint and my knee still hurts a bit. i'll be going out to get 2 poles shortly. ymmv
This is a very good idea as then both knees will hurt the same amount.:eek:
Blue Jay
06-10-2009, 10:38
I wouldn't carry 2 hiking sticks in order to be able to carry more weight. As it is I am planning on losing even more weight before I turn 50 as a preventative measure. I think less weight is the best measure against bad knees, and hiking sticks are more of a treatment after the fact.
Unfortunately many people do use poles to carry more weight and to do more miles than they should. You are exactly correct that less weight (or miles) is a good (possibly only) preventative measure. The hiking stick treatment clearly does not work as I have yet to hear of it "curing" painful knees only allowing continued abuse of them.
Hey BJ, I'm starting to get used to you defying tests, testimonies, and logic with your unsupportable claims. Based on your prognosis, I've been using trekking poles long enough that I shouldn't be able to walk? Didn't seem to notice the 'abuse from pole use' this past weekend where I did 20 miles Sat/Sun. As a matter of fact, I could swear that they helped. Must have run into about 150 hikers on the Roan Mtn to 19E stretch, and all but about 6 were using trekking poles - young and old alike. One thru hiker said he was about ready to quit due to his knee pain but picked up some poles in Hot Springs and is now going strong. I guess marketing would account for that? :)
Much like the map and compass discussion....
Some say yes..
Some say no..
A good bunch of people call each other "poo poo" heads.
:sun
Hey BJ, I'm starting to get used to you defying tests, testimonies, and logic with your unsupportable claims. Based on your prognosis, I've been using trekking poles long enough that I shouldn't be able to walk? Didn't seem to notice the 'abuse from pole use' this past weekend where I did 20 miles Sat/Sun. As a matter of fact, I could swear that they helped. Must have run into about 150 hikers on the Roan Mtn to 19E stretch, and all but about 6 were using trekking poles - young and old alike. One thru hiker said he was about ready to quit due to his knee pain but picked up some poles in Hot Springs and is now going strong. I guess marketing would account for that? :)To be fair he wasn't saying that the hiking sticks caused the abuse. He was saying that the extra weight and miles caused the abuse. People that are worried about their knees should be more concerned about reducing body weight and gear weight. That's all we are saying. Hiking sticks help, but they shouldn't stop you from reducing body weight and gear weight if you are really worried about your knees or already have knee problems. Make sense?
It is odd that outfitters are all about selling hiking sticks,
but not so inclined to get people to reduce their body weight or gear weight.
that's why we hyoh there's trips I keep my pack wt under 30 lbs and walk 15+ miles each day, then there's those trips where I'm taking my time, take the fishing pole, and a few extras, but walk much slower and enjoy my surroundings, I like the poles for heading down the mountain, I heard this quote on tv last week and it went something like this "you choose to go up a mountain, but you have no choice in coming down"
Unfortunately many people do use poles to carry more weight and to do more miles than they should. You are exactly correct that less weight (or miles) is a good (possibly only) preventative measure. The hiking stick treatment clearly does not work as I have yet to hear of it "curing" painful knees only allowing continued abuse of them.
Well, now you've heard of it. :)
It is odd that outfitters are all about selling hiking sticks,
but not so inclined to get people to reduce their body weight or gear weight.
It's the same reason most doctors won't tell their patients that they are fat. They end up losing business because people, by and large (no pun intended), don't want to hear the truth. It's why people are so quick to jump on silly fad diets that let them eat whatever they want as long as they purchase and use X amount of Y product every day. Instant gratification...;)
I use a single hiking pole, Tried two, but I'm uncomfortable without having a free hand in case I fall. I think it makes downhills more stable and helps me get into a rhythm when I walk. I could easily go without it, but its become habit.
Rockhound
06-10-2009, 15:26
I use a single hiking pole, Tried two, but I'm uncomfortable without having a free hand in case I fall. I think it makes downhills more stable and helps me get into a rhythm when I walk. I could easily go without it, but its become habit.
sounds like you really love your pole.:rolleyes:
:),I'm a bit attached. Gets a little embarrassing in public.
sounds like you really love your pole.:rolleyes:
sounds like you really love your pole.:rolleyes:
Hmm....if there was a campfire, and a few beers, the comment I'd make to that statement would not be fit for this website....
sounds like you really love your pole.:rolleyes:
It's not commonly known, but snakes have TWO poles and they seem to get around very well with no complaint of knee pain. :D
Blue Jay
06-10-2009, 16:35
To be fair he wasn't saying that the hiking sticks caused the abuse. He was saying that the extra weight and miles caused the abuse.
I've tried countless ways and times to get Summit to make this connection. Somehow I do not think it's going to happen, but I'll keep trying. Look at it this way Summit, polls are a version of pain killer abuse. With poles and/or pain killers you can overuse your knees to the point of damage. Crutches are crutches, keep using them and sooner or later you will not be able to stop.
I've tried countless ways and times to get Summit to make this connection. Somehow I do not think it's going to happen, but I'll keep trying. Look at it this way Summit, polls are a version of pain killer abuse. With poles and/or pain killers you can overuse your knees to the point of damage. Crutches are crutches, keep using them and sooner or later you will not be able to stop.
So, now Lance Armstrong can't get around without his bicycle?
Blue Jay
06-10-2009, 16:41
Hey BJ, I'm starting to get used to you defying tests, testimonies, and logic with your unsupportable claims. Based on your prognosis, I've been using trekking poles long enough that I shouldn't be able to walk?
No, you'll have permanently painful knees which is exactly what you've admitted to having. Tests by pole manufacturers and testimonies by people with damaged knees are exactly what supports for my claims.
OK..gentlemen..you all made your point in umpteenth posts. How many ways can you all give vague, anecdotal evidence??
Let me sum it up again:
Some like 'em
Some don't.
Most of you call each other poo-poo heads. :sun
Or..here's a photo that should sum it up:
http://dequalss.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg
OK..gentlemen..you all made your point in umpteenth posts. How many ways can you all give vague, anecdotal evidence??
Let me sum it up again:
Some like 'em
Some don't.
Most of you call each other poo-poo heads. :sun
Or..here's a photo that should sum it up:
http://dequalss.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg
I think those guys are beating that horse because he wouldn't listen to the message they wanted to share. ;)
Blue Jay
06-10-2009, 16:45
So, now Lance Armstrong can't get around without his bicycle?
I just watched the Tour of Spain and surprisingly not one rider was using poles. Other than the fishing channel I've never seen any athlete in any sport using them, must have been airbrushed out.
I just watched the Tour of Spain and surprisingly not one rider was using poles. Other than the fishing channel I've never seen any athlete in any sport using them, must have been airbrushed out.
Guess you missed your own point about using a crutch for locomotion...
Lone Wolf
06-10-2009, 16:46
the pro-stick users feel guilty spending so much $$$ for the sticks that they force themselves into believing they're needed
I just watched the Tour of Spain and surprisingly not one rider was using poles. Other than the fishing channel I've never seen any athlete in any sport using them, must have been airbrushed out.
Also, the Tour of Spain doesn't happen until September...
Ladytrekker
06-10-2009, 16:48
I am a klutz they keep me from busting my butt.
Lone Wolf
06-10-2009, 16:48
So, now Lance Armstrong can't get around without his bicycle?
most of his peers can't get around without some kinda drug enhance their performance
Ladytrekker
06-10-2009, 16:54
most of his peers can't get around without some kinda drug enhance their performance
Thats a GOOD ONE!
most of his peers can't get around without some kinda drug enhance their performance
Aha, so you admit that hiking poles are performance enhancing? ;)
Lone Wolf
06-10-2009, 18:32
Aha, so you admit that hiking poles are performance enhancing? ;)
no. i admit they're crutches
No, you'll have permanently painful knees which is exactly what you've admitted to having. Tests by pole manufacturers and testimonies by people with damaged knees are exactly what supports for my claims.I beg your pardon! Must have me mixed up with someone else. My knees are fine and I've never said anything about having painful knees other than normal, reasonable hiking fatigue.
Tests reported and linked here and elsewhere are ALWAYS by non-manufacturers. They are by experienced outdoor enthusiasts and medical professionals. Testimonies I've been privy to have been mostly by perfectly healthy, non-leg-damaged hikers - most of them half our age.
I'm sure your claims sound nice to you but they just don't play out as substantiated arguments.
I agree that body and equipment weight reduction should be top priority, but trekking poles are beneficial to all who learn how to use them correctly. Problem is, many don't.
And I will state again for the ump-teenth time, in regards to 'Mags' type comments, I have no problem with anyone who just says "I don't like or want to use poles." Definitely HYOH. I will continue to be a voice when folks claim they don't work and are dangerous for anyone to use. That's bad advice posted on a site where beginners come to get good advice. To be silent to comments like that lends creedence to their claims. In the three hikes I've done so far this year, over 90% of the hikers I've encountered are using them, loving them, and praising their benefits.
:banana:banana:banana
You tell 'em Summit. :D
Airborne3325
06-10-2009, 21:28
After 15 years of inactivity, I am trying to lose weight and get back into good shape by taking up backpacking. I have been watching this site a lot over the past couple of months trying learn what is 'right' and works for the most number of people. HYOH seems to be the best advice-----experiment with gear and tactics and learn on your own after careful research.
This last week I got on the trail for a planned 5 day hike through the North GA Mtns that ended midway through day two due to a buddy blowing out his knee. It ended up being short on miles and time, but I learned a lot and plan on applying that knowledge next time.
I was sceptical about the poles, didnt think they were worth it but got a cheap set at Sportman's Guide for around $20. They were worth every penny to me. Balance, stability when a foot slips and a great psycological confidence builder on a rough trail. Try the poles and see what you think for yourself. If $$$ is an issue, look for a strong straight stick and carve it down to your suitability. What have you got to lose by trying?
kayak karl
06-10-2009, 21:36
to each his own, but it the winter a must for me. going down rocks in 12" of snow i need them to know where to step. other wise id be in a crevice. dont hike in spring or summer, so don't know their use there.
ChinMusic
06-10-2009, 21:36
After 15 years of inactivity, I am trying to lose weight and get back into good shape by taking up backpacking. I have been watching this site a lot over the past couple of months trying learn what is 'right' and works for the most number of people. HYOH seems to be the best advice-----experiment with gear and tactics and learn on your own after careful research.
This is where the anti-pole folks have lost all credibility. It is not enough for then to decide that poles are not right for THEM. They have to deride the use of poles in general and belittle those that use them as sheeple.
Why? No idea. Maybe there is an Anti-pole Cult......:D
the pro-stick users feel guilty spending so much $$$ for the sticks that they force themselves into believing they're needed
lol i heard a couple thrus tell a story about you 2 weeks ago
Lone Wolf
06-10-2009, 23:49
well share it with us
There is no anti-pole cult. There isn't a pro-pole cult either.
There is just alot of people that sell and buy alot of stuff people don't really need.
Hiking staffs are useful sometimes, and are incredibly easy to make. Hiking sticks are needed by some people, but anyone that can't see that they are being over-marketed is an idiot. Full stop. Did I mention that they are showing up in road races now. I **** you not.
MintakaCat
06-11-2009, 08:06
but anyone that can't see that they are being over-marketed is an idiot.
I guess I don't understand why that's such a big deal. I mean, in the end doesn’t the consumer ultimately have the last say as to what is over marketed and what is not?
I guess I don't understand why that's such a big deal. I mean, in the end doesn’t the consumer ultimately have the last say as to what is over marketed and what is not?In our society, which has so obviously gone way overboard in consumer marketing and spending, it is neccessary to remind everyone what total idiots we have become.
There is no anti-pole cult. There isn't a pro-pole cult either.
There is just alot of people that sell and buy alot of stuff people don't really need.
Hiking staffs are useful sometimes, and are incredibly easy to make. Hiking sticks are needed by some people, but anyone that can't see that they are being over-marketed is an idiot. Full stop. Did I mention that they are showing up in road races now. I **** you not.
If I was coordinated enough to use them, I'd run with them because there is an advantage. I **** you not.
Hey look, 37,818 Leki Poles:
http://www.fallingrain.com/world/PL/39/Leki.html
If I was coordinated enough to use them, I'd run with them because there is an advantage. I **** you not.You **** me not not.
MintakaCat
06-11-2009, 08:35
In our society, which has so obviously gone way overboard in consumer marketing and spending, it is neccessary to remind everyone what total idiots we have become.
So, who determines what is the proper level of marketing and the proper level of consumer spending in order to avoid being called an "idiot?"
Just asking. :D
I think we will always be idiots. I know I am. Ya gotta be vigilant, that's the thing.
Here is the test I use.
If marketing and sales people don't find me really annoying, I am probably being an idiot. ;)
Alligator
06-11-2009, 08:57
JAK you continue to paint with a broad brush. There's a a significant number of people who have provided testimonial that poles benefit them. You can be cynical about it but there's no need to claim that they are all idiots. Make your arguments without the name calling.
Well to be fair, I have called myself an idiot now also. If we can't face up to the fact that we are wasteful consumers, regardless of our testimonials, we really are a lost society. Lets all try and be citizens again, not hapless consumers.
As I said, hiking staff have their uses from time to time, and hiking sticks are neccessary for some people, but lets not kid ourselves. There is alot of overmarketing and overconsuming out there.
MintakaCat
06-11-2009, 09:01
I think we will always be idiots. I know I am. Ya gotta be vigilant, that's the thing.
LOL, I guess my point is this. I have a few pieces of gear that I no longer use. At the time I bought them someone said that I was crazy to buy that stuff. I later found out that they were correct. However, if to do over again, I would still buy the gear. Why? Because, at times, I would rather learn for myself what is good and what is not.
I don’t people are idiots, I think they just want the freedom to figure it out on their own. It’s not that you’re wrong, it’s just they want to hike their own hike.
Alligator
06-11-2009, 09:02
Well to be fair, I have called myself an idiot now also. If we can't face up to the fact that we are wasteful consumers, regardless of our testimonials, we really are a lost society. Lets all try and be citizens again, not hapless consumers.
As I said, hiking staff have their uses from time to time, and hiking sticks are neccessary for some people, but lets not kid ourselves. There is alot of overmarketing and overconsuming out there.OK, start by recycling your soapbox:D.
I wish there was a more polite way to make the point, but we are up against some pretty potent marketing forces, and consumer weakness, myself included. Lets not try and be too proud about. We are wasteful consumers, and we should all try and be more informed and more objective. If we have to crack a few egos now and then to make an omelete, it is still forth it to shake more people loose and hear the voices of desent.
OK, start by recycling your soapbox:D.How about I lend it to you.
Step up.
Alligator
06-11-2009, 09:15
How about I lend it to you.
Step up.It's not my position here to lecture people on their spending habits, nor on how to hike, nor what's the "right" choice on gear. I do provide my experience and my opinion but I'm not going to tell people they have to do it my way.
This "debate" is as contentious as the "boots vs trail runners". There is no one definitive answer. What works for you, what doesn't?
You don't have to buy the latest carbon fiber hiking poles. A straight stick from the trail works just as well, as does a bamboo cane pole. Too heavy??? MAN UP!
I think I spent around $50 on my poles from Sierra Trading Post (NFI) and I figure since I made my own stove the money I spent was less than what I would have spent on a stove. As for the benefit vs. cost ratio, PRICELESS! I hike faster, farther, with more comfort and safety than I ever did without. If it somehow makes people feel better to deny themselves a beneficial product and then whine about it's uselessness, more power to them.
I'm out.
It's not my position here to lecture people on their spending habits, nor on how to hike, nor what's the "right" choice on gear. I do provide my experience and my opinion but I'm not going to tell people they have to do it my way.It my position to get people to think for themselves, not with the herd.
I think I spent around $50 on my poles from Sierra Trading Post (NFI) and I figure since I made my own stove the money I spent was less than what I would have spent on a stove. As for the benefit vs. cost ratio, PRICELESS! I hike faster, farther, with more comfort and safety than I ever did without. If it somehow makes people feel better to deny themselves a beneficial product and then whine about it's uselessness, more power to them.
I'm out.O wonder! How many goodly creatures are there here! How beauteous mankind is! O brave new world! That has such people in't!
brooklynkayak
06-11-2009, 11:41
No, you'll have permanently painful knees which is exactly what you've admitted to having. Tests by pole manufacturers and testimonies by people with damaged knees are exactly what supports for my claims.
I'm sure he's just pulling our legs:)
mister krabs
06-11-2009, 11:55
My anecdotal story.
I was hiking through ups and downs with my buddy, he had poles and I didn't. My knees were killing me on the downs. In the late morning, he handed me one of his poles and said, "try this." I did, and the knee pain eased not to long thereafter. This has been my experience after as well. For me, no poles means possible knee pains on downhills, poles means no knee pain. Your grain of salt - I was a hockey goalie growing up and in college, and my knee cartilage is somewhat deteriorated because of it.
Flush2wice
06-11-2009, 13:38
The benifits are that it reduces the pain in my neck, increases my self esteem, and makes me feel important.
6433
I find a pole or pair of poles help me most on downhill, I am about 50/50 on 1 or a pair
superman
06-11-2009, 14:19
The benifits are that it reduces the pain in my neck, increases my self esteem, and makes me feel important.
6433
Yes, and I can put my bumper stickers on them. One of them says "if you can read this you're following to close." The other one says "bomb Hanoi.":D
There is definitley a lot of marketing out there for products that dont provide the user any significant benefit. For me however, poles stabilize me and help to more evenly distribute my bodys work by putting it into my upper body. I like them and I think they look cool. Not to mention they grip better on the terrain than a stick does.
You don't have to buy the latest carbon fiber hiking poles. A straight stick from the trail works just as well, as does a bamboo cane pole. Too heavy??? MAN UP!
I use ski poles that came from next to the dumpster. Free.
Not only am I cheap dirt bagger, I'm not man enough either.
I'd say wood staffs would put hair on my chest..but I'm a hairy dago anyway...
Jayboflavin04
06-12-2009, 00:54
I use ski poles that came from next to the dumpster. Free.
Not only am I cheap dirt bagger, I'm not man enough either.
I'd say wood staffs would put hair on my chest..but I'm a hairy dago anyway...
Poo-Poo Head!!!!!j/k....I wanted to at least see someone called a Poo Poo Head in this thread.
There is definitley a lot of marketing out there for products that dont provide the user any significant benefit. For me however, poles stabilize me and help to more evenly distribute my bodys work by putting it into my upper body. I like them and I think they look cool. Not to mention they grip better on the terrain than a stick does.Good answer. Best answer yet in the pro sticks column.
I think the best case for hiking sticks for most people is that they give your arms more exercise. I think for just hiking, the leg muscles alone are sufficiently adaptable and better adapted for long term endurance, but for folks that either want to work their arms for strength and endurance also, or have arms that are already developed for strength and endurance, like marathon paddlers, or cross-country skiiers, I think double sticks make sense. They also make sense for people that are elderly or overweight or injured and perhaps can't develop leg strength and endurance quick enough. In terms of pure hiking performance however, it is debateable if the improve performance for people already well adapted for hiking and trail running. Probably depends on the terrain. On some downhills it might allow some crazy adventure racers to push the limits a bit harder. Not sure.
I don't think people with bad knees or concerned about bad knees should use them to enable them to carry more weight however. People with bad knees or concerned about bad knees should use them, but more importantly they should be reducing gear weight and body weight. Those two things are more important than whether you carrying two sticks or one sticks or no sticks. My knees and ankles aren't great, but I want them to last a long time. I am reducing my body weight from 225 to be 170 beyond age 50, and try and keep my skin out weight under 30 in winter, 20 in Spring/Fall, 10 in Summer unless with my daughter. In winter I ski, with 2 poles of course, so I am not adverse to poles. When with my daughter I hike with one. I have a friend who used to be a very competive rower and skiier that swears by these so called Nordic Hiking Sticks and thinks they are for everybody. I don't think they are neccessary if you reduce gear and body weight, unless you already have bad knees, especially around here where there are so many trees to grab onto on our switchbacks. I really don't see why fit people insist on using them even when not overweight or carrying gear or injured, unless it is purely for additional exercise without the impact of running. It just seems reaching to think that we are so well adapted as bipeds, that we need to turn ourselves into quadrupeds all the time. Some of the time maybe, but all of the time makes no sense. When I hiking with my daughter I carry a hiking staff. If I am crossing a stream or on an icy path I might stop and make one. Most of the time, I find a hatchet more useful, and i don't always carry it either.
I saw a couple coming down the switchback at Little Salmon River on my last trip out 3 weeks ago. They were young and fit, but carrying way too much gear for the Fundy Footpath. They had typical hiking sticks and backpacks and probably a tent and stove and too much clothing and food. I would guess she had 30 pounds and he had 40 pounds or more. Typical setup even for experienced hikers, but first time hikers on the Fundy footpath. They were clearly in pain and struggling. They said as much but didn't have to. the hiking sticks probably helped them some, but not enough. They had bailed up the access road when got to the top of the switchback and hiked back down for my return to Big Salmon river. They would have been at least 3 more days. They were averaging about 1km/hr. I've been there. I've done that.
Use 'em if you got 'em I guess, for the stability and additional exercise,
but if really worried about knees and ankles, reduce your body weight and gear weight.
flemdawg1
06-12-2009, 19:33
What marketing? I watched the NBA Fianls last night. Not one hiking pole commercial.
Poo-Poo Head!!!!!j/k....I wanted to at least see someone called a Poo Poo Head in this thread.
I readily admit to being a poo poo head. My skin color is currently a light brownish/olive anyway and I have a shaved head. :D
Lemni Skate
06-12-2009, 21:21
Poles seemed to help me immensely when I used them, but I have carpal tunnel problems and my hands go numb when I try to use them. I tried them again recently after some advice, but to know avail. Numb hands in about two hours.
What marketing? I watched the NBA Fianls last night. Not one hiking pole commercial.Just as I suspected . . . another myth BUSTED! :p :D
Big Dawg
06-12-2009, 21:56
They are definitely fashion.
They are definitely not fashion for me. They saved me from a few face plants this past week on the trail. A mountain goat once told me... "four legs are better than two when scaling mountains".;)
brian2o0o
06-12-2009, 22:02
I prolly couldn't find a good use for my hiking poles either if I only walked for 15min...
Lemni Skate
If you are holding the poles by the handles, try using the strap.
http://www.alpkit.com/support/products/how-to-use-trekking-poles/ (http://www.alpkit.com/support/products/how-to-use-trekking-poles/)
Franco
Lemni Skate
If you are holding the poles by the handles, try using the strap.
http://www.alpkit.com/support/products/how-to-use-trekking-poles/ (http://www.alpkit.com/support/products/how-to-use-trekking-poles/)
FrancoGood link . . . I like the 'Moses figure.' Now there's a professional staff guy for sure! :D
From the website above:
"It is important to remember the limitations of your trekking poles, especially when the terrain gets tricky. Very often it is best to pack the poles away which allows you to use your hands to better advantage."
Lemni Skate
If you are holding the poles by the handles, try using the strap.
http://www.alpkit.com/support/products/how-to-use-trekking-poles/ (http://www.alpkit.com/support/products/how-to-use-trekking-poles/)
Franco
Blue Jay
06-13-2009, 16:50
In the three hikes I've done so far this year, over 90% of the hikers I've encountered are using them, loving them, and praising their benefits.
For me it's way over 90%. Very rarely do I ever see a hiker without poles. "If everybody is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -George S. Patton
People now buy poles before they even set foot on a trail and LOVING THEM, PRAISING THEIR BENEFITS and are absolutely convinced you cannot walk without them. What I'm saying is the emperer has no clothes.
For me it's way over 90%. Very rarely do I ever see a hiker without poles. "If everybody is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -George S. Patton
People now buy poles before they even set foot on a trail and LOVING THEM, PRAISING THEIR BENEFITS and are absolutely convinced you cannot walk without them. What I'm saying is the emperer has no clothes.Translation of all the hog wash . . . 90+% of all the hikers are wrong . . . one person is right? Give me a break Blue Jay. Don't like trekking poles? Great! That's your prerogative. Just give up trying to convince the vast majority they are brain-washed victims of marketing and trekking poles are hazardous to your health and all the other hog wash you've come up with. Too many people truly experiencing the benefits for that to fly!
vamelungeon
06-13-2009, 18:36
For me it's way over 90%. Very rarely do I ever see a hiker without poles. "If everybody is thinking alike, then someone isn't thinking." -George S. Patton
People now buy poles before they even set foot on a trail and LOVING THEM, PRAISING THEIR BENEFITS and are absolutely convinced you cannot walk without them. What I'm saying is the emperer has no clothes.
All the hikers I've seen are carrying their stuff in backpacks too...I guess we're all idiots for that too, or MAYBE it's because they work.
I've never seen an ad for poles, BTW.
People now buy poles before they even set foot on a trail and LOVING THEM, PRAISING THEIR BENEFITS and are absolutely convinced you cannot walk without them.Well, I'm on the other side of the coin. I hiked 34 years without them. It only took a few miles to convince me that they were definitely working in my legs, knees, and feet's favor. And no matter what 'trash talk' you come up with, it will not influence what my body is telling me when I hike with trekking poles.
Blue Jay
06-15-2009, 09:14
Just give up trying to convince the vast majority they are brain-washed victims of marketing and trekking poles are hazardous to your health and all the other hog wash you've come up with. Too many people truly experiencing the benefits for that to fly!
You live in misunderstanding. I am not speaking to the vast brain-washed victims, it's waaay to late for you. I'm speaking to those who are new and not yet convinced you have to use crutches to walk.
humunuku
06-15-2009, 12:20
They are definitely fashion. They are sometimes functional, but usually not.
There is a road race in town here that will have a Nordic Walking division this year. It has replaced the Cigar Walking division from a few years back. I suppose that's a good thing right. :rolleyes:
Actually, it is fashion to call them fashion (it the old school image or some queer thing like that). Poles are functional for going up hill, down hill, help a lot in crossing deep creek and very slippery ones, and they are the supports for my tent. If I hike without my poles, my one knee will hurt by the end of the day. They are not fashion. Use them if you like them, don't if you don't, but don't put wrong ideas in peoples head.
Plodderman
06-15-2009, 15:55
Interesting but I just use a hiking stick made of sassafras. A friend gave it to me and I treat it like an old friend. I do notice many hikers using the two pole system.
boarstone
06-15-2009, 19:33
Tested on a treadmill!...no frigg'n wonder!
Lone Wolf
06-15-2009, 20:17
I do notice many hikers using the two pole system.
using poles is a "system"? :-?
Jayboflavin04
06-15-2009, 21:49
Hold on wait....The horse is getting up....NAH it is still dead keep beating away.
Trekking Poles Get Thumbs-Up In Study"
L.A. Times From the Los Angeles Times, 3/13/07:
"Trekking Poles Get Thumbs-Up In Study"
"That hiker wielding trekking poles like kendo sticks might be onto something.
"Although researchers have found that using trekking poles while hiking on downward slopes eases stress on the lower body, there's been little study of the effects of using trekking poles while wearing a backpack.
"Now, investigators at Western Illinois University in Macomb, Ill., and Willamette University in Salem, Ore., have found that using poles while hiking downhill appears to ease muscle activity and strain on the knees and ankles, even when hiking with a heavy pack.
" 'The poles were effective accross the board, with or without the pack,' says lead author Michael Bohne, and assistant professor of biomechanics at Western Illinois.
"Fifteen male hikers recruited from a Salem hiking club were studied while walking down a specifically designed ramp with embedded sensors ro detect impact. In separate trials, they walked with and without poles while wearing either no pack, a light pack (15 percent of body weight) or a heavy pack (30 percent of body weight).
"According to mathematical models used by the investigators, use of trekking poles resulted in a significant decrease in pressure to the ankle and knee joints, suggesting that they could, in the long run, reduce pain and overuse injuries."
People are now using them walking on level ground, even when they aren't overweight, or wearing packs, or elderly. In our upcoming marathon by the sea they have added a 21k Nordic Walking event as a 'demonstration sport', whatever that means.
I suppose if it gets people out walking, that's a good thing right.
Still makes me sad.
using poles is a "system"? :-?Properly? I would say yes. Using and adjusting the straps correctly, adjusting the pole length correcly, uphill and downhill have different techniques of pole placement for maximum benefit . . . with all that I'd say yes they are a system. Use one instead of two and you pretty much lose everything beneficial.
I just use one, and carry it horizontally most of the time.
Back in the day, we used wood hiking sticks, which we called "staffs". They were a status symbol of sorts. My Montana beaver-chewed aspen staff always garnered respect. But that was back in the day... Today, Chinese people make us shiny metal poles, for about $100.
I tried a "staff" back in the early '70s but after a short spell decided I preferred full arms swing instead - hiked that way for about 33 years. Then I decided to see what all the hype was regarding trekking poles. The benefits I experienced are not the result of slick marketing or imagined . . . they are real. My legs, knees, and feet take less of a beating and my upper body (arms, shoulders, and chest) gets the workout it needs.
Trekking poles, properly adjusted to length and straps used properly, gets your whole body in the game . . . not just your legs, knees, and feet. On rugged terrain, four-wheel drive is better than two! ;)
hopefulhiker
06-26-2009, 07:18
I wondered about using poles before I started but decided to try threm.. I used them the whole hike and would not do it without them now.. They really helped my knees on the downhill. I did not use the straps except when one would fall on the ground and I would scoop it up through the strap with the other pole.
When conditions allow, I like to use my poles in 'crop spray mode'. There is also the game-torture where you try to guess how far a leaf will remain attached to a pole point.
I use a pair. Like 'em. More fun than a stick and easier to travel with.
I'm a klutz... I can usually walk and chew gum without falling, but when backpacking with a full pack over rocky terrain, I need the poles to keep from doing a face plant. And I agree, they help take some load off the knees on downhills.