View Full Version : Help me help my friend
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 10:01
My friend has been getting into outdoor activities like hiking and what not ever since I started preparing for my thru.
He is now (or was) looking into buying a sleeping bag and sleeping pad. I showed him a few good, low price range, "deal" I had found online. He doesn't want to spend a lot of money, baiscally wants to stay mid range.
He just told me he decided not to go with a sleeping bag but rather a wool blanket and a air mattress.....to me the idea of curling up with a wool blanket is not very appealing but just curious if anyone else does something similar....as far as wool goes that is. I know alot of people use quilts. Also wouldn't a wool blanket take forever to dry??? Would it breath as well as a synthetic of down??? I would think not...but I am usually wrong LOL
I also think that he will be diappointed witht he lack of warmth coming from an air mattress...
Any thoughts?
yeah, let him spend a few days carrying it and sleeping with it and then show him the campmor bags online. some people, like myself, just have to learn the hard way about some things.. ; )
ShakeyLeggs
06-11-2009, 10:06
HEAVY HEAVY
The warmth per weight factor would be a big deal breaker for me and is. The again i use a North Face Cats Meow bag.
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 10:09
Ok he is actually using and EMS self inflating pad...similar to a thermarest so thats better
My friend has been getting into outdoor activities like hiking and what not ever since I started preparing for my thru.
He is now (or was) looking into buying a sleeping bag and sleeping pad. I showed him a few good, low price range, "deal" I had found online. He doesn't want to spend a lot of money, baiscally wants to stay mid range.
He just told me he decided not to go with a sleeping bag but rather a wool blanket and a air mattress.....to me the idea of curling up with a wool blanket is not very appealing but just curious if anyone else does something similar....as far as wool goes that is. I know alot of people use quilts. Also wouldn't a wool blanket take forever to dry??? Would it breath as well as a synthetic of down??? I would think not...but I am usually wrong LOL
I also think that he will be diappointed witht he lack of warmth coming from an air mattress...
Any thoughts?I went a couple of weeks ago with 2 wool blankets and a poncho tarp. I didn't even bring a ground pad as I wanted to try just the second wool blanket, with the tarp under and over if neccessary. It worked fine for me, but I wouldn't recommend it. I would recommend he use a $10 blue foam pad, not an air mattress. It is lighter and warmer, and comfortable enough. If he goes with a wool blanket and clothing, he needs to make sure the wool blanket fits him when he is sleeping, and he should have some sort of light nylon shell to go over the wool blanket to hold the warm air in. Also, a light wool or fleece hat and necky or scarf is neccessary with a wool blanket or quilt without a hood. This setup won't save weight over even a cheap sleeping bag, but it is versatile in many ways, and competitive in weight down to 50F, and workable down to 40F. Below that he will have to sit up and make tea. He may not be into that sort of thing.
Summer is a good time to experiment with this sort of thing. It can be lots of fun and you learn alot. Just make sure you bring enough clothing to sit up and sit it out if you have to. Have a decent rain shell and ground pad. You can always grab a sun nap at noon, if the sun comes out. :)
bigcranky
06-11-2009, 10:29
The whole wool blanket thing sounds very adventuresome, like the old explorer or cowboy days. Maybe John Muir-ish. But those old explorers and cowboys kept the fire going all night long. Compared to a mid-range sleeping bag, a wool blanket is very heavy and not very warm. Probably okay as long as the temps don't get below 60 or so.
But hey, let him give it a try. At least it's not an expensive lesson.
If I was to buy just one good sleeping bag, it would be for Spring/Fall, not for summer. If it is a good one it might still be light enough for summer. If it is also a bit oversized it might be extendable into winter with a wool liner, but that might be pushing it, depending on where you winter. The nice thing about summer is the nights are short, so even a cold night is a short night. In winter some cold nights can last a week. ;)
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 10:33
Now he is considering a fleece balnket as well...seems like he is going in the right direction.
He said he tried a bunch of sleeping bags and they were all uncomfortable.
The whole wool blanket thing sounds very adventuresome, like the old explorer or cowboy days. Maybe John Muir-ish. But those old explorers and cowboys kept the fire going all night long. Compared to a mid-range sleeping bag, a wool blanket is very heavy and not very warm. Probably okay as long as the temps don't get below 60 or so.
But hey, let him give it a try. At least it's not an expensive lesson.You don't have to keep the fire going all night in summer, but it is good to have a small fire ready and pot of water handy for tea, just in case you do wake up cold. Actually very easy to do as low as 50F, and just as light as anything else for 60F. 60F? Must be nice. :)
Now he is considering a fleece balnket as well...seems like he is going in the right direction.
He said he tried a bunch of sleeping bags and they were all uncomfortable.Actually wool can be just as warm for its weight as fleece, but a combination of wool and fleece can be very good. The wool should go under the fleece, and there should be a light nylon shell over the fleece. The wool will absorb body moisture and recover 20% of your body heat this way, making it effectively 20% warmer. In summer it is easy to dry everything out the next day before doing it all again. Very comfy way to go down to 50F, even 40F, if you know what you are doing and work it all out. Of course at some point a sleeping bag or quilt will be lighter and warmer, but because there is only one shell, it can be comparable on weight with a cheap bag down to 50F. Its a good option for kids because kids bags don't come in all sizes, and you can tuck a couple of kids in homemade bedrolls under a bigger blanket or quilt with an adult or two. Below 40F you really start to notice cold air leaks, and you start needing more thickness so quilts and bags are lighter.
You would be surprised though, how light a single blanket and nylon shell can be, and still be warm, as long as you don't have leaks. It helps if the blanket is sized just right, and you add some buttons. Fleece is easier to make to size. Light wool blankets are harder to find. You should probably make a the nylon outer shell so that it is taped to you ground pad on one side and one end and part way up the other side, with enough room for you and the blankets. Kind of like a bivy, but just a wind layer really and to hold the blanket together and the heat in. Essentially its a bedroll you are after, not just a blanket. You definitely need special attention in the head and neck area, but you can waste alot of blanket there also. Wool hat and necky or scarf help alot.
For warmer weather, he'd be much better off with a military issue poncho liner (http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/products_details.asp?ST=2&SKU=AC182). He can probably find one used at a surplus store for 20-30 bucks. It will pack to less than half the size of wool and probably weigh less than a 1/3 for at least as much warmth.
With a sleeping bag or quilt you still need a ground pad, but with wool in summer I've debated if a ground sheet might be enough, so you can put more weight into the wool. Doing without the blue foam pad is tempting in summer because of its bulk. A wool blanket, though heavier, is warmer for the same bulk. I've sort of come to the conclusion that you might leave the pad behind to reduce bulk, but you would have to make up for it with a ground sheet and more blanket, thus more weight though a little less bulk, and maybe a little more versatility. A sitting pad at least is always a good thing. On day hikes I bring just a wool blanket now rather than a closed cell pad, but on overnights at least a small pad. I might make a summer quilt, but right now I'm having too much fun with bedrolls. My next $$$ bag will be for Fall/Winter/Spring, not for summer.
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 10:56
Ok NOW he is claiming that on my thru it will never get below 30 degrees...I think I need to end this conversation. LOL
brooklynkayak
06-11-2009, 11:00
He said he tried a bunch of sleeping bags and they were all uncomfortable.
Have him consider the Campmor(or other brands) rectangular down bag. Cheap, lots of space and he can use it like a quilt when unzipped.
That way he can have the comfort of a blanket when it's warm and zip it up when it gets cold out.
For warmer weather, he'd be much better off with a military issue poncho liner (http://www.armynavydeals.com/asp/products_details.asp?ST=2&SKU=AC182). He can probably find one used at a surplus store for 20-30 bucks. It will pack to less than half the size of wool and probably weigh less than a 1/3 for at least as much warmth.They have the wind shell built in also. Good way to go. Whatever you do its important to try it out and see where the air leaks are and how to make up for them. Some wool blankets can be very light, but are usually to small to make a long enough bedroll, and you might not want to either because really nice wool blankets are not something you want to cut up. Fleece is cheap and nearly as good though, so its better for messing around with unless you happen to have a cheap light but big enough wool blanket to cut to fit and add some buttons to. With a ground pad one layer of wool under and 2 layers over is a good way to go, and you need to flap the feet up, and have some extra for the chest and neck area. Using it a diamond rather than a square sometimes works better. It takes some experimenting. The poncho liner already has alot of that worked out, but for a fair comparison you really need a light wool bedroll, with efficient use of all the material, and no leaks, plus some sort of nylon wind shell to hold all the air in. You can end up with something reasonably light and very compact and versatile, and perhaps more robust than a summer sleeping bag, but still at least a pound heavier than even cheap alternatives. Still lots of fun though, and you learn alot. You can integrate it into you clothing also, like a wool cape, or wool poncho, or even a kilt. Once you get a system worked out it can be alot for fun, and quite fashionable, if you like doing stuff off the beaten path.
Ok NOW he is claiming that on my thru it will never get below 30 degrees...I think I need to end this conversation. LOLHe might be right on that, depending on when you go, but for 30F even I would want a sleeping bag or quilt. LOL
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 11:29
I am leaving July 1st and hoping to be in GAby November....I think will be mighty cold at times
World-Wide
06-11-2009, 11:37
I am leaving July 1st and hoping to be in GAby November....I think will be mighty cold at times
Is this thread about your friend's concerns or are you probing for answers for your preparations? :-? Good luck though! :)
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 11:38
No not my concerns....just threw that in there because I am having a side convo with my friend as this thread is maturing LOL
I am more direct about my concerns
World-Wide
06-11-2009, 11:40
No not my concerns....just threw that in there because I am having a side convo with my friend as this thread is maturing LOL
I am more direct about my concerns
Just asking!! :D:D:D:D
It always good to bring a thermometer so you can be more objective about your experiences and what works for you and what doesn't. Then depending on where you are going to be hiking its good to go by climate extremes for that month, rather than averages and weather forecasts. For myself that doesn't rule out messing around with blankets in summer, but late into the Fall if I want to mess around with such ideas I do it in my backyard. It is worthwhile messing around with such ideas though. You can learn alot.
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 11:46
Just asking!! :D:D:D:D
LOL...just answering LOL:sun
Just asking!! :D:D:D:D
wouldn't have had to if you'd actually read the thread:D:D:D
Snowleopard
06-11-2009, 12:06
See if he can find a cheap synthetic bed quilt with synthetic (not cotton) fabric on the outside. Cut it down to his size and sew up the cut edge (it can be really crude sewing). Or just have him try out a sleeping bag opened up as a quilt.
World-Wide
06-11-2009, 12:07
wouldn't have had to if you'd actually read the thread:D:D:D
Read the thread there Kanga, but thanks for pointing that out. Hikergirl's thread went off into 3 different directions in a short span of time so I thought I'd ask if she was beating around the bush? Way to look out for a damsel in distress though! :rolleyes:
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 12:20
Damsel in distress??? please!
lafuma +45 at rei.com
under $50, roomy and light
I was kind hoping this thread would lead to a discussion about bedrolls, how to make them, when not to use them, that sort of thing. They might be unconventional but they still work and have their uses. We can talk about quilts and sleeping bags in any thread.
It is worth comparing bedrolls to poncho liners to diy and bought quilts and bags though.
I think down to 60F even 50F, bedrolls are comparable, down to 50F even 40F quilts are often best, and below 40F sleeping bags really take over. If you camp all year round it can get expensive to have a bag for each season, but in summer it can be easy and fun to mess around with alternatives.
I don't see the point of this thread if its just to shoot down your friend's unconventional ideas without discussing their merits, especially if he doesn't even post.
I am not sure what you really wanted to hear.
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 13:37
No need to defend my friend
I am not attacking him...I was just wondering if me thinking a wool blanket was crazy....is crazy
for the money a used synthetic shipped for around 35$,no sewing or trying to ignore a 100 years of progress, what is the size, or height / weight of this person also pick 20F or 30F and I will dig up a good used bag, as would 10 other gear hogs on this site
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 14:06
5 ft 6 in...160lbs...approx
so that is a mens regular or long if you like to sleep on the stomach with pointed toes what temp?
hikergirl1120
06-11-2009, 14:23
something that goes down to like 20
pm if you are interested and I will check storage, I think the 20 F is a north face or EMS
brooklynkayak
06-11-2009, 19:07
Keep in mind that Grandma Gatewood always did her thru-hikes with a wool blanket.
Wool is amazingly warm even when soaking wet. I know 'cuz I roll my kayak all year round and my wool cap keeps my head warm in the winter.
kayak karl
06-11-2009, 20:30
If I was to buy just one good sleeping bag, it would be for Spring/Fall, not for summer. If it is a good one it might still be light enough for summer. If it is also a bit oversized it might be extendable into winter with a wool liner, but that might be pushing it, depending on where you winter. The nice thing about summer is the nights are short, so even a cold night is a short night. In winter some cold nights can last a week. ;)
JAK, do you always answer your own posts:D
when i was young we would pack anything it the woods to get away. backpacking is a different animal. let him learn on his own.
A life spent making mistakes is not only more honorable, but more useful than a life spent doing nothing.
George Bernard Shaw (http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/George_Bernard_Shaw/)
Irish dramatist & socialist (1856 - 1950)
Many Walks
06-11-2009, 23:47
I got my poncho liner like new from a local Military Surplus store for $15. I got it for summer use with a fleece blanket on a pad and it's great. Going down to 20 degrees I'm thinking he either needs a bag or will have to carry a lot more blankets (lots of weight) to keep warm.
flemdawg1
06-12-2009, 11:24
What's the weight of that poncho liner? Intringued.
LockJaww
06-12-2009, 11:33
Im also a fan of military poncho liners. Slept many a night wrapped up in one. Very light weight and can be compressed very small. Buy a used one if you " need it now". New ones need lots of mileage and several washings before they give up their crinkleness...Is that a word?
thunderson
06-12-2009, 13:45
When settlers arrived in North America the Native Americans traded for wool blankets because they were better than the hides they had been using. During WWII heavy wool and down bags replaced blankets. Although during combat the bags were often left behind due to weight and the soldiers made due with wool blankets. Usually 2 for every 3 men. In Winter.
The wool blanket idea isn't as crazy as it sounds. Obviously everyone is different but it is certainly possible with a few caveats:
1) Blanket must be good quality 100% wool and large enough, at least 60in by 80 in for the average user.
2) Obviously not a "light" option
3) As stated previously, the individual should in cold weather at least have a fire prepared so that when they wake in the coldest part of the night (and they will), they can sit it out.With proper preparations including the use of a lot of leaves for insulation, it's possible to make it into the lower 30's or even upper 20's.
Then again, I've personally slept comfortably in a 50 degree bag, surplus polypropylene, zrest , tarp set up in 35 degrees without use of leaves or fire. And the whole setup cost me less than 80 bucks.:rolleyes:
I wouldn't want to cut up a good wool blanket, but maybe with fleece by the yard, or if I wove my own wool blanket using a very thick yarn to make it thicker and weave faster, I think the think to do would be to figure out the exact dimension and make it so that it is tapered towards the foot, and above the shoulders also, and fold over and flap up and button or tie up in such a way as to use the material most efficiently. Might make a good liner for inside a Spring/Fall bag to extend it into the Winter also. For summer use, you would want a light nylon sheet or bivy over it.
It would be nice if even with a mummy shape it would still be useful as a robe or poncho. Another idea might be to combine the idea with a traditional type pack where the light nylon sheet and the wool blanket fold up into a pack with all your camp stuff and food inside. Some clothing worn loose could also be part of the sleep system though, like wool kilt or wool poncho or wool robe. A few straps and maybe some sort of a frame like this would complete the pack. Might be a fun thing to try. Heavier than a sleeping bag, but wouldn't need the pack weight and tent weight that goes into protecting most people sleeping bags. A primitive yet robust system, fun to try:
http://www.primitiveways.com/pack_frame.html
Simple backstrap loom:
http://www.manalagi.com/jamesplace/indonesia/fabric/bakstrap/index.html
But I am not exactly sure how you could get it to taper towards the feet.
I suppose another option might be to knit the whole damn thing like a giant tube sock. lol
Anyhow, the bulkiest wool yarn is about 85 yards per 4oz skien, and knits about 11stitches per 4", and would cover maybe at 1 oz per square foot if knit or woven loosely. 9 oz per square yard, 11 oz per square meter. I am 2 square metres in surface area, so maybe as little as 1.5 pounds if knit or woven with efficient use of material. 2 pounds might allow for a more practical fit and some folds on top. That would be a rather thin blanket for full coverage, but would be thicker than a medium sweater, and looser and lighter than most wool blankets or wool material in fabric stores. Fleece is about the same weight, but would not be as thick or warm once a nylon shell or bivy is considered over either to trap in the warm air. The nylon shell would add 2-3 ounces.
At the end of the day you would have a 2-3 pound bedroll, which with 2-3 pounds of clothing, not counting shoes and rain shells, might keep you warm down to 40F, comparable to a quality down sleeping bag that might only weigh 1.25 to 1.5 pounds.
So you are 1.5 pounds heavier, but it has some redeeming qualities.
Many Walks
06-13-2009, 00:45
What's the weight of that poncho liner? Intringued.
My Military Surplus Poncho Liner is 62" x 88", Nylon quilt pattern both sides w/ hem & tie outs, no head hole, polyester fill, 20 ozs. Big enough to cover two people. Nice for summer. Maybe just a little heavy, but for $15 I couldn't go wrong. Used them alot in Viet Nam and was like getting an old friend back.
vonfrick
06-13-2009, 09:46
When settlers arrived in North America the Native Americans traded for wool blankets because they were better than the hides they had been using.
unless you take the smallpox into consideration
thunderson
06-13-2009, 23:29
unless you take the smallpox into consideration
There's always a tradeoff with new gear:D
[quote=kayak karl;852679]JAK, do you always answer your own posts:D
does a bear **** in the woods?