If THAT'S your thing, why the AT?

[Jester2000]

I've noticed on a number of threads that many people complain about the social scene on the AT, or mention how much they dislike shelters, overcrowding on the trail, feeds, etc.

Often they'll mention that they go to the woods to get away from that sort of thing, that part of their motivation for hiking has to do with a desire to get away from society.

If that's the case, why hike the AT during the traditional hiking season? With so many underused trails to hike and explore, it seems strange to me that someone who seeks solitude would step foot on the AT when they know it's a heavily used trail, and then complain about the fact that it's a heavily used trail.

So I guess I'm wondering, if that's your thing, why the AT? Feel free, as well (if you know some), to list trails where people CAN find all of the solitude they desire. Thanks!

[Bearpaw]

I've noticed on a number of threads that many people complain about the social scene on the AT, or mention how much they dislike shelters, overcrowding on the trail, feeds, etc.

Often they'll mention that they go to the woods to get away from that sort of thing, that part of their motivation for hiking has to do with a desire to get away from society.

If that's the case, why hike the AT during the traditional hiking season? With so many underused trails to hike and explore, it seems strange to me that someone who seeks solitude would step foot on the AT when they know it's a heavily used trail, and then complain about the fact that it's a heavily used trail.

So I guess I'm wondering, if that's your thing, why the AT? Feel free, as well (if you know some), to list trails where people CAN find all of the solitude they desire. Thanks!

Honestly, I think it goes to publicity. SO MANY people have heard of the AT.

But in the southeast, how many have heard of the Benton MacKaye Trail, or Foothills Trail, or Sheltowee Trace, or Cumberland Trail, or Bartram Trail, or Pinhoti Trail or Duncan Ridge Trail or John Muir Trail (YES, there is a JMT in two sections in TN!)?

If you don't really look for alternatives, they're not as easy to find as you might think. Most folks, who've never heard of them, will go with the easy access to information on the more crowded AT.

[mister krabs]

Just in my area, Foothills Trail, BMT, DRT, Chattooga river trail, Bartram trail, Cohutta wilderness trails and more. No shelters, lots of solitude.

[traildust]

The Sheltowee Trace is what the A.T. was in the beginning. Only two shelters in over 200 miles and water is on you. No signs and privies. You want isolation, hit "The Trace".

But I would venture a guess that most all trails, especially on the weekends and those connected trails to parks and campgrounds are just as social and filled. We continue to grow as a population and urban encrochment continues at a record pace.
Let me fall of the soapbox.

[Pootz]

You will find that there are some that complain about everything on this site, just ignore them.

I just spent a week on the tuscarora trail. Starts at Mile 21 in in SNP on the AT and ends on the AT near the Darlington Shelter in PA. Great trail, and you will find lots of peace a solitude. Only saw 2 other hikers, and they were past AT thru hikers that I met in 2006. "

It's a small world but I would not want to paint it" STEVEN WRIGHT

[JAK]

surely there must be lots of solitude still to be found on the AT
you might have to avoid the certain places, certain times, but that can be fun to do

sometimes the best solitude is found places that are normally crowded, sometimes deserted

that can be part of the fun and beauty

[Alligator]

I generally time my hikes on the AT so that the bubble is not in my hiking area and find plenty of solitude. One can always camp away from shelters as well and not worry about people. There are even times at shelters were I only meet the people while fetching water, as I usually camp at a distance if others are there. I also tend to arrive late so many times I'll just cook at my campsite rather than at the picnic table. I always check to see if someone is sleeping inside at like 6-7 o'clock. I prefer my chair anyway, so it's a good excuse to be anti-social.

[Skyline]

Random thoughts:

The AT is generally well maintained, better than many other long distance trails I've been on or have researched. That would attract some folks.

The AT is within a day's drive or less for about 2/3 of the US population.

The AT is the best known trail on the planet, and there is abundant information about nearly every inch of it easily accessible. Hikers wanting to know lots of details in advance of their hikes will be attracted to the AT for this reason. Info about many other trails, which do afford more solitude, is just not that easy to come by.

Not wanting to sleep in crowded, filthy, rodent-infested shelters may not be, for some folks, the same as wanting to avoid the social scene all together.

The amenities found close to shelters (water source, sometimes a privy, bear pole or pulley, picnic table, fire rings, and pre-used tentsites) are attractive to some who don't mind being around people at all...they just don't get a good night's sleep right inside a shelter.

For those who want to avoid large groups, hiker feeds, hostels, etc. it's certainly possible on most of the AT except at heavily-visited tourist spots. But I agree there are better chances to avoid these things outside of the traditional NOBO prime time.

[Skyline]

Some of the long distance trails (well, depending on how you define long distance) that indeed offer solitude much of the time are:

The Foothills Trail (NC/SC)
The Laurel Highlands Trail (PA)
The North Country Trail in PA, OH, NY (and probably other states it goes through)
The Finger Lakes Trail (NY)

Also, many of the side trails in SNP are known for their hidden away camping spots, streams, proximity to waterfalls and historical sites, etc. Most afford excellent solitude. You can put together a pretty good itinerary by starting at the southern Park boundary at Rockfish Gap and hiking north starting on the AT. Go as far as your time permits, even all the way to the northern Park boundary or beyond. You can leave the AT at 1-20some locations to take in side loops, and rejoin the AT further north for awhile before leaving it again (repeating this scenario as desired). For an average-speed hiker doing 8-15 miles per day this can become a two-to-three week adventure. The backcountry rules in SNP are not nearly as stringent as the Smokies, so that opens up a lot of campsite possibilities.

[garlic08]

Great question. I'm one of those who avoids shelters and hostels and is somewhat vocal about it.

Just because I don't enjoy the shelters and hostels and, to some extent, most of the trail towns, doesn't mean I didn't love the AT as a footpath. It's a world-class trail and a national treasure. Almost every mile of it is intrinsically valuable, unlike the Western trails where the only conceivable reason to hike some sections is to achieve a thru hike. The AT is mostly pure fun, and there's comparatively little risk. As mentioned above, resupply difficulty is nearly negligible. And there's good water every day. The shelters, privies, feeds, hostels, etc. are very easy to ignore.

The fact that there is a continuous protected trail easement, with a wonderfully maintained footpath, through the rugged ridges of the Southern Appalachians, remains a wonder to me.

Being a confirmed Western hiker, I did not expect to ever hike the AT. But the Triple Crown beckoned, and it's hard to ignore that call. (Someone said, "You can hike one trail, or you can hike all three trails, but you can't hike just two trails.") I certainly didn't expect to enjoy the AT as much as I did.

[mudhead]

Lack of National Forest in Maine.

[max patch]

Given the purpose of the trail...

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/LMPG_4ATexper.pdf

...if someone needs to leave its the individuals who insist on creating a party atmosphere on the trail who should "go someplace else."

[ZEKE #2]

Much to my surprise, I really enjoyed the people/social scene that I met on the trail. I had planned my route to take advantage of the solitude, but soon changed my route to include the characters that I met along the way.
Only at the very beginning in April and after Trail Days in May were the shelters really crowded. And even then I looked at it as an opportunity to meet new people. Each day I hiked, I was alone on the trail; that is except for the birds and bears.
I now have a trail family.

[JokerJersey]

My thing is I hate people. Not individuals, but people as a whole. Single person encounters can be amazing and even small groups aren't bad. It's when you get above that when I start to have trouble. Invariably someone will say or do something wrong, offend someone, blatently break the rules, litter, smoke herb in front of others like it isn't a problem, be inconsiderate of others personal space or feelings, or any number of other things. Then when someone goes to correct them or calls them out on it, you immediately divide the group into for/against instead of being able to have a rational conversation with "most" individuals.

If it's a single person encounter, the dynamic is completely different then when mob rule applies. Most people in a single person encounter aren't really out to piss off the only other person there, but when the group dynamic comes into play, then you need to start worrying about things like ego, saving face, and other social attachments that often times don't come into it when speaking with someone one-on-one.

Society is what bothers me and the miniscule dynamics that accompany it. I have very rarely had issues when dealing with another human being in a single or small group environment, but have often times had issues with those same individuals when the larger group dynamic comes into play.

As for the AT, I'm going NOBO. I know I'm going to run into groups of people. I'm not forced to stay with them, stay in shelters, or do any of the things that others might choose to do. My town stops will be limited to resupply, maybe a motel stay, laundry, a shower, and perhaps dinner...then out again the next morning. I'm not looking to head out to the local tavern, pour back half a keg of beer, get loud, rowdy, and wake up the next morning hung-over, trying to figure out why my underwear are on backwards and why I have the word "Dingus" on my forehead in black permanent marker.

I'm looking forward to meeting the "individuals" on the trail, but plan on avoiding as much of the "social" group aspect of it as possible. My reasons for choosing the AT is location, the fact that it is well maintained, resupply is easy, it's probably the "easiest" of the long trails, and it passes through some of the country that I hold near and dear to my heart. After that, who knows where I may go next.

[Frosty]

If you don't really look for alternatives, they're not as easy to findNo agrument with this :D

[mweinstone]

if you hate parts of the at scene at its peak, dosnt that sort of intail you actually love the trail and can really be bothered by misuse of it by others? isnt possesion part of it. dont you have to think of the at as your own to care at all? and isnt our trail so hard up for dollars and volenteers and such that its great anyone even complains cause it means they used our trail once at least. and if their exsperiences are negetive and they blab about it, dosnt that spread not only information about our trail but gives challenge to some to prove it wrong. i feel every step by every person or dog on the at is a step twords protecting and ensuring the future of , my trail. so negetive is better than no comments and less use.

[mweinstone]

and bushwacking the winds is what you want for solitude. and a day in the pines on one of many trails other than of course such simular to the at trails as batsto, will provide the hiker with the sureity of being the only soul to have walked their that day. not running into hikers is easy. pick the dead zones like the benten mckey instead of the springer to neels section of at. not running into great hikers that become friends of a sort i need is why i stopped solo bushwacking in my 20's.and tolorating and or informing misusers is our duty as lovers of the trail. and its easy when you speak with love and the authority of a hiker who is hiking properly , respecting the wilds and others. as for the un tameables, we got 911. how hard is it to share? not very.

[Darwin again]

... Most people in a single person encounter aren't really out to piss off the only other person there, but when the group dynamic comes into play, then you need to start worrying about things like ego, saving face, and other social attachments that often times don't come into it when speaking with someone one-on-one.

So I see you've never been hiking with my dad.
But seriously, this can be a generational, cultural or class problem, with a member of one group feeling they've been disrespected or slighted somehow by a member of another group. Some people bring those group values with them because they've internalized them, not realizing or perhaps not caring that other people do things differently.


My reasons for choosing the AT is location, the fact that it is well maintained, resupply is easy, it's probably the "easiest" of the long trails, and it passes through some of the country that I hold near and dear to my heart.

Dude.
"easiest" ?
Bwah-hahahahaha!

Is it better to suffer alone or share your experiences with fellow travelers? I like both. I can be alone in a room full of people or in the midst of a big city. It's all in your mind...

[modiyooch]

I hiked 25 AT miles in maine two weekends ago and didn't see a sole. I get plenty of solitude on the trail even when it's busier. I too, enjoy the solitude, but also enjoy the sporadic encounters along the way. What I like the most is not having to adhere to a time schedule. I also don't typically stay at shelters. I'm asleep by dark. I hike many trails, but primarily hike the AT to complete a lifetime goal.

[Mags]

Just because I don't enjoy the shelters and hostels and, to some extent, most of the trail towns, doesn't mean I didn't love the AT as a footpath. It's a world-class trail and a national treasure.


Garlic summed it up quite well.

The only .02 I'll add that it is possible to have a nice compromise at night for social vs. solitude. Have your dinner at the shelters and converse with your fellow travelers for a little bit.

After dinner? Stroll, at most, .25 down the trail. Put up your shelter and sleep peacefully.

The shelters are a convenience. They aren't necessary for the AT experience IMO. When it is cold, rainy and you have it to yourself..they can be nice. Otherwise? I'd rather avoid the crowded sleeping arrangements.

The AT is beautiful in many ways. There just happens to be many ways to enjoy it, too.

As for solitude back east..the Cohos Trail comes to mind along with the Benton MacKaye Trail and the northern portion of the Long Trail.

re: "Easiest"

In some ways, the AT is the easiest of the big three trails. Logistics are super easy. There is a lot of help along the way if you need it. And there is a boat load of planning info if a hiker chooses to take advantage of it. That does not mean it is the "easy". (Which is why the author put it, quite correctly, in quotes). Other than northern New England (which still has THE toughest trails physically I've ever hiked), the grades aren't as bad as people make them to be IMO. The constant rain can be a PITA of course.

I think the AT has this hard reputation because many of the people hiking the AT are new to long distance hiking, aren't in shape, and carry fairly heavy loads. Just my opinion after hiking the BMT 11 yrs after I thru-hiked the AT. I found the BMT (which is supposed to be steeper than the nearby AT) to be not as hard as I remembered my own AT thru-hike to be. Of course, opinions are like something else: WE ALL HAVE ONE AND THEY ALL STINK. ;)

[CaseyB]

You will find that there are some that complain about everything on this site, just ignore them.

I just spent a week on the tuscarora trail. Starts at Mile 21 in in SNP on the AT and ends on the AT near the Darlington Shelter in PA. Great trail, and you will find lots of peace a solitude. Only saw 2 other hikers, and they were past AT thru hikers that I met in 2006. "

It's a small world but I would not want to paint it" STEVEN WRIGHT

What's that other trail called that shoots off the AT north of Pearisburg?

[OldStormcrow]

My hiking on the southern 1/3 of the AT has been almost exclusivly in the dead of winter and solo. At one time I could go through the entire Smokies and never see anything but mice if it was in February or something like that. Now, even if it's -14 degrees, every shelter in the back country is full to capacity. I've always wondered what the Smokies would look like in the summer....

[Lone Wolf]

What's that other trail called that shoots off the AT north of Pearisburg?

tuscarora.......

[CaseyB]

Nevermind, found it: Allegheny Trail
http://www.aldha.org/alleghen.htm

[Skyline]

tuscarora.......


Actually, it's the Allegheny Trail. The Tuscarora Trail's southern terminus meets the AT near Hogback Mt. in the SNP, and its northern terminus meets the AT near Duncannon PA.

Both trails provide much solitude (I have more experience with the TT), but neither is maintained nearly as well as the AT.

[JokerJersey]

re: "Easiest"

In some ways, the AT is the easiest of the big three trails. Logistics are super easy. There is a lot of help along the way if you need it. And there is a boat load of planning info if a hiker chooses to take advantage of it.

That's what I was getting at when I said "easiest". I fully recognize the physical difficulty of it, but in truth, that was the same thing as boot camp. It's a mental game. Your body will adapt if you give it the time to do so. Again, just like boot camp. We didn't start out with The Crucible, we ended with it. The early hikes and runs were a couple of miles, even if they felt a LOT longer. I went from doing a 26 minute, 3 mile run when I joined to an 19 min, 3 mile for my final PFT...and that was only 2.5 months of training.

The fact that you can resupply every few days, have little problems in the way of logistics, and are close to bail out points almost every step of the way is what makes it the "easiest" in my mind. Granted, this is only from research alone, but from what I've researched, I'd say the AT, followed by the PCT, followed by the CDT would be the order of "easiest" to "hardest".

[garlic08]

I'll also back up Joker J on the "easiest" quote. I'm one of the few people alive who hiked the AT after hiking the PCT and CDT. I thought it was the overall "easiest" of the three, for all the reasons Mags mentioned. I made my highest mile per day pace on the AT, though that wasn't my goal. I had the most fun on the AT, and that definitely was my goal.

I agree that the AT is a great intro to long distance hiking, better than the other two long trails. As my friend Pickle metaphorically puts it, the AT is a bachelor's degree, the PCT a masters, and the CDT a doctorate in hiking.

[Jester2000]

I just spent a week on the tuscarora trail. Starts at Mile 21 in in SNP on the AT and ends on the AT near the Darlington Shelter in PA. Great trail, and you will find lots of peace a solitude. Only saw 2 other hikers, and they were past AT thru hikers that I met in 2006.

I just saw guidebooks for this trail in my store. Looks great! And close!




Given the purpose of the trail...

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BD25B4747-42A3-4302-8D48-EF35C0B0D9F1%7D/LMPG_4ATexper.pdf

...if someone needs to leave its the individuals who insist on creating a party atmosphere on the trail who should "go someplace else."

I'm not suggesting that ANYONE "needs" to leave the trail, nor did I mention any sort of "party atmosphere." I'm also not suggesting that the things being complained about are necessarily destructive or bad for the Trail, just that these things are not what certain people are looking for when they leave "civilization" for a bit.

My question kind of revolved around folks who are on the AT often enough to complain about the things I actually did mention in my thread starter, when there ARE alternatives. Why not find a trail (or a season on the AT) that serves the individual's purpose?

Talking about the "purpose" of the AT is all well and good, but I'm talking about the reality. The purpose of an automobile is transportation, which doesn't explain why people buy the cars they do (but that $50,000 BMW does suit the individual purpose of the person buying it, no matter how ridiculous I think it is to spend that kind of money on what I see as transportation).


That's what I was getting at when I said "easiest". I fully recognize the physical difficulty of it, but in truth, that was the same thing as boot camp. It's a mental game. Your body will adapt if you give it the time to do so. Again, just like boot camp. We didn't start out with The Crucible, we ended with it. The early hikes and runs were a couple of miles, even if they felt a LOT longer. I went from doing a 26 minute, 3 mile run when I joined to an 19 min, 3 mile for my final PFT...and that was only 2.5 months of training.

The fact that you can resupply every few days, have little problems in the way of logistics, and are close to bail out points almost every step of the way is what makes it the "easiest" in my mind. Granted, this is only from research alone, but from what I've researched, I'd say the AT, followed by the PCT, followed by the CDT would be the order of "easiest" to "hardest".

Joker -- I suspect that you have the right mindset and will do fine.

Everyone -- good comments, and great mentions of other trails!

[max patch]

I'm not suggesting that ANYONE "needs" to leave the trail, nor did I mention any sort of "party atmosphere." I'm also not suggesting that the things being complained about are necessarily destructive or bad for the Trail, just that these things are not what certain people are looking for when they leave "civilization" for a bit.

My question kind of revolved around folks who are on the AT often enough to complain about the things I actually did mention in my thread starter, when there ARE alternatives. Why not find a trail (or a season on the AT) that serves the individual's purpose?

Talking about the "purpose" of the AT is all well and good, but I'm talking about the reality. The purpose of an automobile is transportation, which doesn't explain why people buy the cars they do (but that $50,000 BMW does suit the individual purpose of the person buying it, no matter how ridiculous I think it is to spend that kind of money on what I see as transportation).






I know exactly what you meant and what your agenda is.

[Fiddleback]

Great question. I'm one of those who avoids shelters and hostels and is somewhat vocal about it.

Just because I don't enjoy the shelters and hostels and, to some extent, most of the trail towns, doesn't mean I didn't love the AT as a footpath. It's a world-class trail and a national treasure. Almost every mile of it is intrinsically valuable, unlike the Western trails where the only conceivable reason to hike some sections is to achieve a thru hike. The AT is mostly pure fun, and there's comparatively little risk. As mentioned above, resupply difficulty is nearly negligible. And there's good water every day. The shelters, privies, feeds, hostels, etc. are very easy to ignore.

The fact that there is a continuous protected trail easement, with a wonderfully maintained footpath, through the rugged ridges of the Southern Appalachians, remains a wonder to me.

Being a confirmed Western hiker, I did not expect to ever hike the AT. But the Triple Crown beckoned, and it's hard to ignore that call. (Someone said, "You can hike one trail, or you can hike all three trails, but you can't hike just two trails.") I certainly didn't expect to enjoy the AT as much as I did.

My first backpacking experiences (the early 60's) were in the MD/VA/WV/PA region around and on the AT. My Lady and I later were pretty active in the same area in the early 80's. I love the hardwood forests of the Atlantic Seaboard! But during that time, while we often were on the AT, we intentionally were trying to 'get away' and to avoid seeing people and being seen. Consequently, we didn't do long stretches on the AT (I don't ever remember seeing a shelter...). We found back then that if we got two miles or more away from the parking area we could pretty much be alone.

But that was then. I think backpacking was more popular then but I think the AT is more popular now. I wonder if I'd still be as successful in trying to 'get away.':-?

FB

[kayak karl]

good point. i don't like hiking with others that much. a couple of days is ok. thats why i will only hike off-season.

[fiddlehead]

When it comes to hiking: There's a time for partying, and a time for wilderness experience, and a time for variety.

There's lots of trails out there. (or, as i'm doing now, just creating my own, and this is turning out to be the most fun of all)

[Jim Adams]

actually I don't mind other hikers as most of the time I get to hike all day alone but get to "visit" and have the social interaction in the evening. camp under my tarp not far from the shelters because of the water, privies, bear cables etc. or in a shelter in really bad weather (why get my equipment wet?) I absolutely love almost all aspects of the AT.
what don't I like?......people who whine about all the things that they don't like about the AT.....just stay home!

geek

[10-K]

What always facinates me is that I can hike all day and only see a few people and then I'll start getting my hopes up that I'll have the shelter all to myself and when I get there more often than not it's packed.

It's like people materialize out of nowhere.

[stranger]

I struggle with the hordes of nobo hikers during peak thru-hiker season, but I'm also aware that I'm often one of those hikers. It's silly to be heading north from Springer Mountain the first week of April and complain about all the people on the trail, after all, you are part of the problem!

I can't speak for others, but the reason why I continue to hike along the AT is because it's been a part of my life since I was a kid. I was raised on it, I first got hypothermia on it, saw my first snake on it, fell in my first flooded creek along it, etc... I love the AT, and to be honest I love alot of the things along the trail that make it so well trodden.

I love the dinky trail towns, the $35 hotel rooms, the AYCE Shoneys, I like the people along the trail, I like the "crowd" in general, the "scene" if you will. The AT is a social trail, and it's those people that often make each hike different from one year to the next. I like the fact that it's almost impossible to get lost or lose the trail, I like how creeks are bridged and how close you are to civilization if anything goes wrong.

For me, long distance hiking is not about challenges. I have enough challenges being a union organizer and living in different countries, hiking is my escape, my vacation, my "other life". Along the AT, I don't need to think about much other than "10 or 12 miles before lunch" or "camp at this creek or the next one", that's a pretty simple existence.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of packed shelters and hostels. But the reality of the AT is that if you avoid shelters and hostels, you will not see that many people even during thru-hiker season. We know that these locations are going to be packed with hikers, so if that's the case, why would you still aim for shelters or hostels if you do not welcome hordes of hikers?

The bottom line is that alot of people like the AT, and if you build 250 shelters along the AT you can expect people to rely on them, and if you offer cheap accomodation in trail towns you can also expect the vast majority of hikers to use those facilities as well.

If you want to avoid the crowds, sleep in your tent between shelters or stay in a motel when you go to town, it's not exactly hard.

Or go hike another trail...

[The Old Fhart]

“I went to the woods because I wanted to live deliberately, I wanted to live deep and suck out all the marrow of life, To put to rout all that was not life and not when I had come to die Discover that I had not lived.”

[Doctari]

I have been hiking the southern part of the AT off & on for about 11 years, usually during "Peak thru hiker season". ONE time have I found a shelter full. Never have I felt the trail itself was crowded, usually going all day & seeing maybe 4 people ON the trail itself. I think the most I have met in one day was last trip I was passed by 12 scouts going SOB while I was NOBO, I saw one other person before them, none after till I got to the shelter, so 13 people in an 8 hr hike. I saw the people for a total of 2 min. There were about 5 people at the shelter: after eating dinner, I went about 1/2 mile up trail & camped. No problems with crowds.

Like at traildays: you can do the party scene or not! It's all up to you.
Don't like the shelter scene? Don't stay in them!
Don't like hiking with crowds, walk slower or faster or take a break for lunch or even a day off.

My plan for if I do a thru is to do the BMT to avoid the busy south end of the AT. I figure by the time I get to the far end of the Smokies, the "Party crowd" will have thinned out & I can hike in peace. I'll also likely be ready for some human contact by then so, , , , ,

[Pony]

My hiking on the southern 1/3 of the AT has been almost exclusivly in the dead of winter and solo. At one time I could go through the entire Smokies and never see anything but mice if it was in February or something like that. Now, even if it's -14 degrees, every shelter in the back country is full to capacity. I've always wondered what the Smokies would look like in the summer....

Really? I spent four nights in the Smokies last May, and twice my hiking partner and I had the shelter to ourselves. Although we saw lots of people in the Smokies, I would say over half of them were day hikers, especially around Newfound Gap.

As far as solitude versus people on the trail, I enjoy hiking by myself but then meeting up with people at the end of the day to chat with. That's not to say I haven't hiked past shelters, even though I was ready to call it a day, because the company looked undesireable. I like the fact that on the AT you can choose to be around people if you like or be by yourself if that's your thing

[Tin Man]

Lots of good responses here. Avoid what you don't like, enjoy the rest. People are mostly fine. "Crowds" are limited to thru-hiker bubble and high usage road access areas, like on some peaks - a brief encounter at most.

Bears only eat tasty hikers... penguins are harmless... and shelters suck... oh my. :D

[Walessp]

I might add to the lists here both of the following: the Allegheny Trail (VA/WV) which generally parallels the AT to the west (departing from the AT just north of Blacksburg) and the Mountains to Sea Trail (MST) which starts at Clingman's Dome and runs (with roadwalks to Nags Head NC on the coast. Both have a few shelters.

[Wolf - 23000]

Jester,
For me, I liked being on the AT. I’ve hiked it in all four seasons including in weather that I wouldn’t see a sole hiking the entire trip. Hiking on the AT was like coming home. I have hike out long distance trail but most long distance trails are little more than a couple weeks of hiking or long stretches of flat land that I hate. I liked being out for months and months of hiking (I miss it everyday).
In the summer time, there are a lot of people that I view as little more than a weekend warrior. I’ll explain. I don’t care how far someone has hiked or how fast they are traveling. To me that doesn’t make you a good or bad hiker. What I don’t like is when I run into hikers that have very little interest in hiking. They care more about getting to the next town to party it up than just being out there. Or gear heads that just want to ask the same questions acting like they never backpacked before. Or sissy hikers that complain about everything; “It raining outside so I can’t hike”, “You need to make room for me in the shelter because it is raining out”, “I have a blister on my foot” – we have all seen it. Or hikers that lie about what they have hiked. That is the stuff that I don’t like. I know not all hikers are like that but a lot of them are.
So why not hike other trails, well I have but I still like coming home to the AT. I miss being on the trail to much to go around avoiding it doing busy hiking season. And when I run into hikers that I don’t care for, I simple move on. I can’t stop anyone from hiking the AT but I don’t have to hike with them if I choose not to.
Wolf

[Jester2000]

I know exactly what you meant and what your agenda is.

Really? Out of curiosity, what is my "agenda?" I wasn't aware I had one. And I'm pretty sure I said exactly what I meant, which I find to be less confusing for everyone.

[Tin Man]

Really? Out of curiosity, what is my "agenda?" I wasn't aware I had one. And I'm pretty sure I said exactly what I meant, which I find to be less confusing for everyone.

ooo, jester, tell it like it is ... cool :cool:

[Chaco Taco]

Right now in the south, the number of people out hiking is lower because of the moisture. We had Laurel Falls all to ourselves yesterday and it was awesome.
I am one of those that tends to complain about the shelter life, Im tired of the crowds and tend to avoid them all together if I can. I would like to explore some of the less traveled trails in this area especially. We have a pocket of trails all around us here in Asheville besides the AT.

[Pootz]

[quote=Jester2000;852610]I just saw guidebooks for this trail in my store. Looks great! And close!

Make sure you get the most updated guidebooks for the Tuscarora Trail. Their are 2 books for the trail North end and south End. Their is an 2008 edition out for one of them. The store near me was still selling the 1997 book.

[Nean]

Really? Out of curiosity, what is my "agenda?" I wasn't aware I had one. And I'm pretty sure I said exactly what I meant, which I find to be less confusing for everyone.

I'm pretty sure he meant vagenda -and we all know ya got one 'cause - well, it WAS confusing. Damn you Jester! :confused:

I've done most my hiking out west and really enjoy what those trails have to offer.:sunLike my friend Wolf, I love the lifestyle, living on the trail for months..... year after year......., regardless of which one it is. LW would honor us as TRASH which does of course, in classic LW style, stir the clueless. The AT is what you make it but there are just more choices to be made than you have out west. :-? Yes. the trail has its specific faults. What I really don't like about the AT are all the beautiful women that are out there.:mad: No, I love the AT because it is just so much fun!:banana Hope to do it again someday. :eek: Soon! :)

[Kanati]

[quote=Bearpaw;852383]Honestly, I think it goes to publicity. SO MANY people have heard of the AT.

But in the southeast, how many have heard of the Benton MacKaye Trail, or Foothills Trail, or Sheltowee Trace, or Cumberland Trail, or Bartram Trail, or Pinhoti Trail or Duncan Ridge Trail or John Muir Trail (YES, there is a JMT in two sections in TN!)?


Or what about the Chunky Gal Trail ???

[Jester2000]

[QUOTE=Pootz;857055Make sure you get the most updated guidebooks for the Tuscarora Trail. Their are 2 books for the trail North end and south End. Their is an 2008 edition out for one of them. The store near me was still selling the 1997 book.[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Oh, and for everyone who saw my post about not having an agenda, I realized that I was wrong. I do have an agenda: Annoying and Confusing the Humorless. You would think I would have noticed that written on the Billville shirts . . .

[Tin Man]

Thanks! Oh, and for everyone who saw my post about not having an agenda, I realized that I was wrong. I do have an agenda: Annoying and Confusing the Humorless. You would think I would have noticed that written on the Billville shirts . . .

isn't that in the wb usage agreement? could have swore i saw it there, but i could be wrong... maybe it is one of those unwritten rules :-?

[Bearpaw]

[quote=Bearpaw;852383]Honestly, I think it goes to publicity. SO MANY people have heard of the AT.

But in the southeast, how many have heard of the Benton MacKaye Trail, or Foothills Trail, or Sheltowee Trace, or Cumberland Trail, or Bartram Trail, or Pinhoti Trail or Duncan Ridge Trail or John Muir Trail (YES, there is a JMT in two sections in TN!)?


Or what about the Chunky Gal Trail ???

We had to change that to the "Voluptuous Lady Pathway". Too many complaints.

[prain4u]

There is an old saying that goes something like this:

"Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose."'

I think that most things are permissible on the AT--including partying, religious behavior, hiking with dogs, hiking naked, etc. HOWEVER, people have no right to "impose" their behavior (or the the results of their behavior) upon others. It is a simple matter of courtesy and respect for others.

You have a right to hold a party at a shelter--but remember that others have a right to get some sleep (and not be confronted by rowdy drunks) at that same shelter.

You can hike naked--but remember that other people have a right to hike that same trail with their kids and not encounter naked individuals.

You can hike with your dog--but remember that other people have a right to not be bothered by your dog.

You have a right to practice your religion while on the trail-but remember that other people have a right to hike in a relatively "religion-free" setting.

Today, so many people are concerned about their own "rights". Perhaps we should be more concerned about our "responsibilities"--especially our responsibilities toward our fellow hikers. When possible, our personal "rights" should be willingly, AND VOLUNTARILY, yielded whenever exercising our rights will significantly diminish someone else's hiking experience. We should do this--not because we "have" to--but because we respect our fellow hikers and because we respect their right to have a good experience on the AT. The AT is not my (or your) personal trail. Therefore, we need to learn to share it.

Remember, "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose!"

[Cannibal]

Today, so many people are concerned about their own "rights". Perhaps we should be more concerned about our "responsibilities"--especially our responsibilities toward our fellow hikers. When possible, our personal "rights" should be willingly, AND VOLUNTARILY, yielded whenever exercising our rights will significantly diminish someone else's hiking experience. We should do this--not because we "have" to--but because we respect our fellow hikers and because we respect their right to have a good experience on the AT. The AT is not my (or your) personal trail. Therefore, we need to learn to share it.

Remember, "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose!"
Very well said.:cool:

[Johnny Swank]

Just hike SOBO if you're looking for solitude. You'll have the trail to yourself during the week once you get past NH.

[Marta]

Just hike SOBO if you're looking for solitude. You'll have the trail to yourself during the week once you get past NH.

...And since 75-80% of the NOBOs have been weeded out by NH, even when you're crossing paths with them, the hoards are not too overwhelming.

[Jester2000]

There is an old saying that goes something like this:

"Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose."'

I think that most things are permissible on the AT--including partying, religious behavior, hiking with dogs, hiking naked, etc. HOWEVER, people have no right to "impose" their behavior (or the the results of their behavior) upon others. It is a simple matter of courtesy and respect for others.

You have a right to hold a party at a shelter--but remember that others have a right to get some sleep (and not be confronted by rowdy drunks) at that same shelter.

You can hike naked--but remember that other people have a right to hike that same trail with their kids and not encounter naked individuals.

You can hike with your dog--but remember that other people have a right to not be bothered by your dog.

You have a right to practice your religion while on the trail-but remember that other people have a right to hike in a relatively "religion-free" setting.

Today, so many people are concerned about their own "rights". Perhaps we should be more concerned about our "responsibilities"--especially our responsibilities toward our fellow hikers. When possible, our personal "rights" should be willingly, AND VOLUNTARILY, yielded whenever exercising our rights will significantly diminish someone else's hiking experience. We should do this--not because we "have" to--but because we respect our fellow hikers and because we respect their right to have a good experience on the AT. The AT is not my (or your) personal trail. Therefore, we need to learn to share it.

Remember, "Your right to swing your fist ends at my nose!"

Before I get on with the rest of my post, I want to say that I agree with you completely. That said, this is the second time I've gone back and read my original post because I thought maybe I HAD mentioned partying somewhere. Perhaps my use of the phrase "social scene" implied partying, but that wasn't my intent.

I think your line: "we need to learn to share it" went more to the heart of what I was asking about -- people who seek solitude (NOT sharing) and then complain about not finding it on a trail that is well known (in certain places and at certain times) for not offering a solitary experience.

I appreciate the responses of everyone who realized that I was genuinely curious and interested in the answers, and recognized that I was not trying to provoke pointless argument.

Though the above poster was a bit off the track I was thinking of, the world (and the trail) would be a better place if everyone were guided by his words (or John Stuart Mill's, as the case may be).

Thanks!

[WalkSoftly33]

So I see you've never been hiking with my dad.
But seriously, this can be a generational, cultural or class problem, with a member of one group feeling they've been disrespected or slighted somehow by a member of another group. Some people bring those group values with them because they've internalized them, not realizing or perhaps not caring that other people do things differently.



Dude.
"easiest" ?
Bwah-hahahahaha!

Is it better to suffer alone or share your experiences with fellow travelers? I like both. I can be alone in a room full of people or in the midst of a big city. It's all in your mind...

...A great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude... (Emerson)


- Walk Softly and carry a big spirit.

[Helios]

Peace is not found in the absence of chaos, but in the ability to cope with it.

That being said.... I find solitude when I get up to raid the fridge in the middle of the night, but if someone wants to join me and start a party I won't complain!

Oh, I hope to find both solitude and friendship during my upcoming thru hike. It's a world famous 2,000+ miles long trail...what else would I expect?

[Jester2000]

I was just reading over this resurrected thread and was struck by the good, thoughtful responses and quality trail recommendations. Almost everyone took my initial response as it was meant -- an actual inquiry rather than a veiled attack.

I AM planning on a hike on the recommended Tuscarora Trail, because even I enjoy a bit of solitude now and again.

I suspect that Joe Cross' attitude will serve him well on the trail.

[mweinstone]

long in the future when the trail is inside a really long museum, filled with tourests with tours playing on headsets as they zip over the trail in high speed speeders,..and with only hard core weirdos still hiking its blazes within a glass tubeway,... ill be cookin bacon in there till they shut off the air conditioning and close it down.

[Cookerhiker]

I was just reading over this resurrected thread and was struck by the good, thoughtful responses and quality trail recommendations. Almost everyone took my initial response as it was meant -- an actual inquiry rather than a veiled attack.

I AM planning on a hike on the recommended Tuscarora Trail, because even I enjoy a bit of solitude now and again.

I suspect that Joe Cross' attitude will serve him well on the trail.

Give us a report on the Tuscarora Trail when completed. It's on my short list. I guess I should have hiked it when I lived much closer.

At this point, I'm 80% sure I'm attempting a thruhike of the Sheltowee in April.

[berkshirebirder]

...A footpath for those who seek fellowship with the wilderness.

It's almost 2200 miles long. There's plenty of time and space for everyone to find what they're looking for: solitude, friendship, wilderness, civilization, effort, relaxation, defeat, success. Suggesting a certain type of hiker go elsewhere doesn't seem in the nature or spirit of the Trail.

[wudhipy]

If I'm not too far off shelters are mandatory only in the GSMNP....:-?

[Jester2000]

It's almost 2200 miles long. There's plenty of time and space for everyone to find what they're looking for: solitude, friendship, wilderness, civilization, effort, relaxation, defeat, success. Suggesting a certain type of hiker go elsewhere doesn't seem in the nature or spirit of the Trail.

Not the intent of the thread.

[Tinker]

Why? Exercise and friendship are the two attractions besides good ol' Ma Nature.
I carry a personal shelter which I use almost every night. I visit shelters when I want company and stay away when I don't.

[Jester2000]

So to recap this thread (which, by the way, is an older thread recently resurrected) for those who don't read entire threads:

The original intent of the original post was to get insight into those who complain about overcrowding on the AT, and yet continue to hike on the AT. And complain about it.

This thread was not about partying or shelters (although shelters tend to factor into complaints about overcrowding), and it was not meant to suggest that "if you don't like it, go hike elsewhere." It was an attempt to understand why people desiring solitude choose to hike on the AT, in particular the people who choose to do so in hiking season. Because if you're seeking solitude, it kind of seems like you're setting yourself up for unhappiness by leaving Springer on, say, April 1st.

Some of the confusion about the intent of this thread probably revolves around the request that people mention other trails that do allow for solitude.

But I'm not sorry I put that bit in, because it led to a lot of good suggestions on trails I want to look into.

As I mentioned today, almost all of the people who previously posted here posted good thoughts revolving around the actual question I posed.

People who want to know what I was asking can read the first post. There's nothing to read into. I post what I mean. If I was trying to say "go hike elsewhere," I wouldn't have implied it. I would have come right out and said it. I didn't.

[RGB]

given the purpose of the trail...

http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7bd25b4747-42a3-4302-8d48-ef35c0b0d9f1%7d/lmpg_4atexper.pdf

...if someone needs to leave its the individuals who insist on creating a party atmosphere on the trail who should "go someplace else."

agree agree agree agree

[ki0eh]

There is an opportunity for solitude in long distance hiking not much further than the A.T. from many of us. It's called Great Eastern Trail (http://www.greateasterntrail.net/) - some components (such as the Allegheny and Tuscarora Trails) were already mentioned. If you hike it while it's still invisible you can become one of those respected old hikers from way back when.

[fiddlehead]

Feel free, as well (if you know some), to list trails where people CAN find all of the solitude they desire. Thanks!

Ok, I've never seen a trail that is used less than the one I've been working on here.
I'm in my 3rd year of trailblazing this thing and have been out more than 55 days now.
The only people I've seen are the ones who came with me (none have gone more than once), and illegal immigrants working the rubber tree farms.

So, if you want a remote trail, come over to Phuket, Thailand. I'll show you one that has virtually no one on it. (complete with monkey attacks, killer wasps, elephants and cobras)

In the states, go to AZ or NM, and find a wilderness area on the state map.
Go into this wilderness area with a GPS or 7 1/2 minute quad map and you'll be surprised to find good hiking in there. I always did anyway.

[Jester2000]

Ok, I've never seen a trail that is used less than the one I've been working on here.
I'm in my 3rd year of trailblazing this thing and have been out more than 55 days now.
The only people I've seen are the ones who came with me (none have gone more than once), and illegal immigrants working the rubber tree farms.

So, if you want a remote trail, come over to Phuket, Thailand. I'll show you one that has virtually no one on it. (complete with monkey attacks, killer wasps, elephants and cobras)

In the states, go to AZ or NM, and find a wilderness area on the state map.
Go into this wilderness area with a GPS or 7 1/2 minute quad map and you'll be surprised to find good hiking in there. I always did anyway.

I used to love to go to Organ Pipe National Monument and just walk off into the desert. There were parking spaces about a mile apart from one another. You'd go to the ranger station, pick one, and tell them on their map what grids you planned to be in (I guess so they could find yer body if you didn't show up again). You could wander off into the desert, and then check in with them again when you were heading home. I understand that due to concerns over illegal immigrants (and drug-runners), only camping at the official sites is now approved. Sad.

As for your trail, I think the monkey attack thread has frightened me off. But maybe not. I'd go in your company. Solitude plus one.

[prain4u]

People often debate whether the AT is (or should be) a "social" trail or a "solitary" trail. In my opinion, it is not a matter of picking "either/or". The AT is actually "Both/And". It is BOTH a social trail AND a solitary place where one can escape from the more hectic aspects of modern civilization.

From its VERY BEGINNING, the AT has always had somewhat of a "split personality". The Appalachian Trail was envisioned as both "a community" and a place to "escape" from the negative aspects of community living.

The "Father" of the Appalachian Trail, Benton MacKaye, began the "split personality" of the AT back in 1921 when he published his now famous essay in which he set forth the concept of building an Appalachian Trail. MacKaye envisioned the "development of the outdoor community life - as an offset and relief from the various shackles of commercial civilization". (The AT was envisioned as a place to BOTH develop community AND a place to escape from civilization).


When he wrote his article, World War I and the worldwide influenza epidemic had only recently ended. Read more of what MacKaye wrote (I have underlined certain things for emphasis):

"Something has been going on these past few strenuous years which, in the din of war and general upheaval, has been somewhat lost from the public mind. It is the slow quiet development of the recreational camp. It is something neither urban nor rural. It escapes the hecticness of the one, and the loneliness of the other. And it escapes also the common curse of both - the high powered tension of the economic scramble...."

The AT was supposed to be a place to both escape from the "hecticness" of community living and a place to develop a sense of community living. ("Both/And" not "either/or")

People on WhiteBlaze have recently been debating whether modern "technology" should have a prominent place on the trail--or whether people choose to come to the AT in order to escape from such luxuries and to "rough it". Again, Benton MacKaye addressed this "split personality" back in 1921:

"The ability to cope with nature directly - unshielded by the weakening wall of civilization - is one of the admitted needs of modern times....Not that we want to return to the plights of our Paleolithic ancestors. We want the strength of progress without its puniness. We want its conveniences without its fopperies."

Is the AT a place for modern technology or is it a place to "escape" and "rough it"? MacKaye said it is "both/and"".

Life in (and around) the AT shelters is the one place where some of the greatest philosophical and practical "battles" of trail life take place. We have so much "conflict" because we view shelters as a place to fiercely defend our concept of the AT as being "either/or".

--Either a "social" trail or a "solitary" trail
--Either high-tech or low-tech
--Either dogs or no dogs
--Either alcohol or no alcohol
--Either religion or no religion
--Either Liberal or Conservative
--Either meat-eater or vegan
--Either ultralight or a heavy pack

We have conflicts because we choose to focus upon enforcing "either/or" instead of cooperatively trying to achieve "both/and".

Benton McKaye wrote the following regarding the ideal of what life should be like in an AT "camp" (shelter area). He states:

"The camp community is a sanctuary and a refuge from the scramble of every-day worldly commercial life. It is in essence a retreat from profit. Cooperation replaces antagonism, trust replaces suspicion, emulation replaces competition.

So it was in the beginning--may it be both now and forever.

The above words from Benton MacKaye should be posted prominently in every shelter along the AT.

++++++++++++++++++++

For those who are curious about such things, Benton MacKaye's entire article is reprinted here: (Note--it has two parts. So, remember to "click" the link to the second part of the article)

http://www.fred.net/kathy/at/mackaye.html

[Blue Jay]

I do have an agenda: Annoying and Confusing the Humorless. You would think I would have noticed that written on the Billville shirts . . .

That in a nutshell is exactly why this site is sooooo great.

[Blue Jay]

The original intent of the original post was to get insight into those who complain about overcrowding on the AT, and yet continue to hike on the AT. And complain about it.

I have really really enjoyed this thread even though none of the people who complain all the time have in fact answered the question. It's one I have often wondered about and yet never asked. Almost all of the things that annoy people about the AT, I enjoy. The crowds, the shelters, the celbots, even the dogs if they don't try to bite me. I even enjoy the complaining.