Biggest Weight Savers

[Former Admin]

Which general bacpacking items do you feel can be swapped out (changed) to save the most weight.

[SGT Rock]

Normally mentioned are shelter, sleeping system, backpack - the big three. There is a fourth that can be your kitchen.

Example 1, Shelter: SD Clip flashlight tent, admittedly one of the best and lightest weight = 58 ounces. Replace with a 6'x8' tarp, tyvek ground cloth, 6 stakes, and some triptease cord = 19 ounce. If you need bug protection add a 7 ounce net. Savings are 32 ounces.

Example 2, sleeping system. North face Blue Kazoo 20 degree bag and Thermarest Ultralight pad = 66 ounces. Western Mountaineering Ultralight and Mt Washington trimmed to 2/3 length (use your pack under your feet) = 34.5 ounces. Savings are 31.5 ounces.

Example 3, Backpack. Gregory Shasta with a pack cover = 94 ounces. Replace with a sil-nylon Moonbow gearskin and sil-nylon cover = 20.6 ounces. Savings are 73.4 ounces.

Example 4, cooking system. This really depends on where you already carry. Wisperlight international with 11 ounce fuel bottle (full), insulated cup, utensils, and 1.5 liter MSR blacklite pot (including lid and lifter) = 51 ounces. Homemade alcohol stove, 12 ounce soda bottle full with alcohol, lemonade jar with cozy, one lexan spoon, Snow Peak 720ml pot with lid and cozy = 19.6 ounces. Savings are 30.4 ounces.

All the above changes in your pack would drop 164.3 ounces or 10.25 pounds. There are a lot of other things like reducing what you carry or how much you carry of some items, but I think these are the biggest places to save.

[Former Admin]

LMAO

I love how you use my gear as an example LOL:D

Im considering a new pack and sleeping bag. No way am I getting rid of my thermarest.

I only used the Whisperlite till Walasi and the went with a pepsi can stove so my kitchens miminal now. On a short trips I don't think I'd mind the Whisperlite, however anything longer than a few days its alcohol.

The tent decision im weighing back and forth. Since i'll be hiking in February, i'll probably use it to start.

[chris]

Going back to the AT in February? I'd probably bring a bivy and plan to stay in the shelters. How full were they when you went through last year?

[ez-does-it]

Chris asks how full were the shelters in Feb.Answer the shelters weren't to full due to the time I left which was Feb. 12 th how ever I would not plan on staying at any of the shelters just because you want to due to the fact that at any time of the year you can and might find that the shelters will be full.My advice is to always be prepared and have a good shelter with you to use,Never-Never go out hiking with out good shelter protection(tent/tarp/poncho) etc.:
Can you tell I don't like staying in the shelters.This is just a post to say always be prepared.;) Nothing personal Chris so please don't take it that way.;) :p

[chris]

Well, there was nothing personal or Anti-Chris in your post, so there is nothing to take offence over. Some people like shelters and others do not. Unless you are prepared (mentally, physically, etc) to spend a night outdoors without shelter in potentially bad weather or to keep hiking until you reach a shelter with space, you should carry some sort of tent/tarp/hammock/bivy/etc on your back.

[SGT Rock]

I can tell you spending a couple of nights wrapped in a poncho and a sleeping bag covered in snow will make a beliver out of you. 1987 - Bavarian Alps - Hohenfels, Bavaria, FRG.

Have a plan.

[MedicineMan]

just wanted to again mention again the silnyl tube tent Moonbow gear made for me....12oz of instant shelter, works with poles or trees, has mesh insert for one end for bugs, other end has cord to completely close off, is 10 feet long so plenty of room for gear and you, has side tabs to pull out for more room, uses 4 stakes or 6 with side pulls or none at all if you use your gear to spread it out on the ground....untested, have only set it up in the living room to seam seal it, but have used plastic tube tents in the woods before..differing from the plastic tube tent, the silnyl has a strong ridgeline seam running into the top tie outs..it may flap more in the wind but for instant shelter at 12oz it is hard to beat.

[RagingHampster]

Man, how do you guys do it? I have to have a tent. Psychologically I need it for a sense of security as well. Bibler's i-Tent at 4lbs. 2.5oz is pretty light. I'd rather carry 10 extra pounds of full-featured gear, than go ultra-lite.

I do agree with not staying in shelters though. Between the smell and noise I'd rather sleep in a tent (even in winter). I also have equal feelings about outhouses. Absolutely gross. I'll take a nice off-trail tree to lean against.

Personally, I would love a collapsible toilet seat, y'know, a directors chair with a hole in the middle... :D

I'm thinkning of getting a Bibler Eldorado. Identical to the i-Tent, but a bit-bigger and only 1oz more. My only winter tent is my behemoth 11lb TNF VE-25. I split it up between me and my hiking partner(s), but it takes a long time to set-up, and the eldorado would be 4 season as well.

[The Weasel]

Once you realize that tent is 3-1/2 pounds heavier than my shelter, and that you're tired and doing shorter mileage than you wished, you'll not only know HOW we do it, but WHY.

The Weasel

[chris]

Hampster,

Having used a few Bibler products in the past, I can say they do work very well. They are about the toughest tents made and very light. However, I think they are probably overkill along the AT during the prime hiking season. These are full one mountaineering tents, afterall. I would be wary of taking one into the sweltering heat and humidity of the summer in the East, since the ToddTex singlewall material just doesn't ventillate like a doublewall tent. I think a thruhiker named Twoscoops carried one this year on his hike. He has a spot at trailjournals.com.

[SGT Rock]

I think you are right it is psychological. Honestly, a few microns of tent fabric are really not much protection if you think about it, and what they really actually protect you from could be accomplished by a tarp and a bug net.

Maybe spending some time in a desert would be a good exercise, then you find out how worthless a tent usually is - sleep on the ground and look at the stars and enjoyit. After a while you get used to open spaces and resent a tent. Then a poncho/tarp rig seems like a decent compromise.

[hikerltwt]

I ordered some seconds silnylon from OWF and my cousin works at a small sewing factory and she hooked me up with a lady that does side jobs from the factory. I had her make me a poncho eight foot wide and nine foot long with six tie out loops attached three per side and on the oppisite sides there are three snaps per side to close for poncho duty. I have tie out loops on the ridge line seam and use a bit of triptease to secure the tarp to hiking poles tree ect. The tarp weighs thirteen ounces after seam sealing the stiching! I then had a three foot wide by seven foot long tent with six inch bathtub floor style walls made. The bug netting goes up at a pyramid shape to three and a half feet high and the door is sealed via hook and loop fastners. I had three loops attached along the ridge line and to raise the tent under the tarp I simply run triptease from pole to pole and lift to desired height then tie it off. The tent weighs about twelve and one half ounces after seam sealing! The sewing work cost me eighty dollars and the materials about fifty. The woman also made me a ground cloth thirty inches wide by six and one half feet long out of the leftover silnylon that I use when bugs aren't a problem! Very versitile shelter light weight relatively cheap and doubles as raingear for weather too harsh for my Montaine Featherlight set!

[Streamweaver]

Sounds like a nice set up!! Got any pics ????
Streamweaver

[Footslogger]

Damn Top ...I think you and I did some time in the same wilderness, albeit a few years apart. You mentioned "Hohenfels". We did maneuvers in Baumholder and Vielsek back in the late 60's. Gives me the shivers just thinking about those nights in the back of a deuce and a half wrapped in a wool blanket covered with a poncho.

[DebW]

Excuse me for asking this, but what do you do when it's really pouring, you have your poncho tarp set up and all your gear under it, and then you need to visit the outhouse or the woods? Do you pack up all your gear again before putting on the poncho to move? Or just use a pee bottle? I know one has to make sacrifices to go ultralight, but...

[SGT Rock]

Just aim outside the tarp and go from inside. The rain does the flushing.:eek:

[hikerltwt]

In response to streamweaver yes I have some pictures if you'd like some sent you can e-mail me at [email protected] and tell me where to send them and in reply to Debw.........I simply run out and pee pee or If it is cold and such I deploy my umbrella and happily squirt/squat in style!

[hikerltwt]

Debw the beauty of a tarp setup is you deploy and crawl under and cook unpack and generally take it easy! In the morning you pack up gear under the tarp out of the rain and then slip your head through the hood and roll. You can even untie the cordage after you are in the poncho! It's wonderful I'd never go back to a tent. A couple of years ago I got caught in about thirty inches of snow that fell over night in the Mount Rodgers Recreation Area and the sil nylon held up great! All I had to do was tap the tarp periodicallly and as the snow fell I had the added benifit of it sealing in the sides from wind. At eight foot by nine foot there is plenty of room under for a single person and all gear. Try it you will love it . Wit triptease and titanium stakes you can have a complete shelter for under two pounds during bug season and barely over one pound during bugfree seasons and it doubles as raingear. All hail silnylon!

[RagingHampster]

8' x 9' Poncho? You must be awfully tall!

I'm definetly thankful for those here who have encouraged others to try a lightweight approach. I have shed a whole buncha pounds off my pack, and I'm not done yet. While I'm not a poncho/shelter convert yet, I use an alcohol stove now, and have a two pound tent setup (being made now by DLG) saving me multiple pounds over my previous "Lightweight" tent. I've also replaced/made the majority of my remaining gear.

Still can't seem to ditch my therm-a-glutton though :)

[SGT Rock]

If you switched to a hammock you would learn how much the therma rest sucks :D

[RagingHampster]

I slept in a hammock once, and woke up feeling like crap. I can't sleep with my back curved like that. May have something to do with my emergency lipid reserve (bear gut). I'm 6'1 225lbs. I'm afraid I would pull the trees down.

I've flirted with the idea of a sil-nylon tarp with a bugscreen guylines, groundcloth and titanium stakes, but thats pretty much what my Dancing Lightgear Tent is that I ordered. Nonetheless it does weigh 2 pounds (with pegs stuffsack etc) and I'll probably end up slowly going towards an even more minimal shelter as I grow accustomed to it.

My pack is essentially a Moonbow gearskin with a built in aluminum oval (and two cross bars) for support & to let your back breathe by holding your gear slightly off your back. I'm still making it, but it should be in the 1.5-2lb range.

My 800fill down blanket I'm making that velcros to my therm-a-glutton should also be between 1.5-2lbs.

Therm-a-glutton weighs 3lb 7oz.

My goal was to get my Pack/Shelter/Sleep System under 10lbs. My old setup weighed around 15-16lbs I'm currently on course to land somewhere between 8 and 9.5lbs. Finding a 2lb alternative to the Therm-a-Glutton would put me between 6.5 and 8lbs, but I need a wide and long pad, with enough height oomph to support my moose frame.

***EDIT***

LOL! Nunatak stole my idea (well kinda).

http://www.nunatakusa.com/Sleeping_Bag_Catabatic.htm

Mine will accomodate my 25"x77"x2.5" pad though, and one side will open up via a long strip of velcro.

I'm still looking for a pad replacement...

[SGT Rock]

I'm not saying your wrong about how you slept, but maybe you didn't use a good hammock or string it right. After years of sleeping on flat surfaces for most people, getting a hammock right takes some learning. I'm reading Ed Speer's book and some of the stuff it took me a while to learn he explains very well.

[Bandana Man]

I'm curious about hammocks and would like more info from users. Hammocks sound like a great way to lose pounds from the pack. Is it difficult to get used to sleeping in a curved position? I wonder if the size of the sleeper has anything to do with sleeping comfort. In other words, based on the prior two posts -- do smaller people find hammocks more comfortable than larger people? And, I love to sleep on my side. Can that be done in a hammock? Thanks in advance.

[Footslogger]

Hey Bandana ...I'm 5'10" and 175. I had similar concerns as you regarding the sleeping position in a hammock. Granted, you can't sleep absolutely flat on your stomach. But if you lay at an angle accross the hammock you can get "almost" flat and definitely comfortable enough for a good night's sleep. And yes, sleeping on your side is totally possible in fact that is how I tend to sleep in mine.

[Redbeard]

I'm a sliver under 6' and 220lbs, I have no problems sleeping in my A-sym, I do have to make sure it is strung tightly though. I keep my back slightly raised by putting my head close to one end, or I can scooch to the other end and keep my feet raised, but if you stay in the middle you will be flat.

[hikerltwt]

RH I am six three so not really tall and the poncho fits great! As for ditching the thermarest ..........It took me a while too. I started with a standard then went to an ultralight and I was using blue foam for frame sheet for my pack and carrying the ultralight too for a while. I used the ultralight sometimes untill I became convinced that I'd be able to find a comfterable enough camp site to use the foam. After a time I got better at recognizing the proper place/time to pitch for the night and was rarely using the thermarest. It was gradual and learning to recognize want from need! In the winter I still carry a MT Washington Pad as well as the blue foam if I am expexting sleeping on snow.

[Squirrel]

I have met many ultralighters and most don't try to save much weight (besides omitting a pad) on the sleep system. That is the LAST place most will cut. I tried to meet in the middle. I like to sleep out in the open so I did not want a down bag that will stay wet. I decided on a synthetic instead-so I gained a pound. I go light and stay comfortable, I just did not cut at my sleep system. BTW, I do not use a pad.

-Squirrel

[TedB]

I'll second what Squirrel says. When it comes to cutting weight I like to push myself. However, with the sleeping bag (or system) I hold back. Why?

Hypothermia is a distinct danger in backpacking. Therefore a good sleeping bag can be an important piece of safety gear. When it comes to staying warm, it is the most weight effective piece of gear.

For cutting weight, another area I might suggest taking a look at is your clothing. Add the weight of everything you are wearing plus everything in your pack. Your clothing system, taken as a unit, can be one of the heaviest things that you carry.

[ganj]

Believe it or not, the human head weighs around 8lbs.

[TedB]

"Believe it or not, the human head weighs around 8lbs."

hmm... I won't ask why you have a human head in your pack. However, I respect someone who practices Leave No Trace!

[The Weasel]

Most people think a backpacking hammock is like a backyard hammock, and that's why they aren't comfy. The trick is to not sleep parallel with the sides of the hammock, but, as Jim Hennessey demonstrates, at abouta 30 to 45 degree angle ACROSS the hammock. This results in a near-flat splay for the hammock, and is very comfortable. Basically, in the HHammock, you put your head back against the screen seam, and your feet on the other side's screen seam.

The Weasel