View Full Version : Footwear for wide forefoot, narrow heel?
Apparently I'm getting old. After always wearing regular width shoes I know am having a hard time finding a pair that is not tight across the forefoot, just across the ball of the foot. This seems to necessitate a wide width shoe, but the rest of my foot is not wide and I get heel slippage. I'm wearing a wide pair of NB trail runners and fooling around with different sock thicknesses and I really don't think I'm going to come up with a fit as good as I really need to have.
So the question is, anybody out there with a similar problem of wide forefoot and regular width heel? What works?
Now to really limit this discussion down and to likely eliminate every member of this forum, additionally I have high arches and supinate (stand on outside of my feet slightly). It is my understanding that this puts me in 1/2 of 1% of people with this type foot/stance and you can imagine how many shoe models are marketed at 1/2 of 1% of the market!!! Again if anyone is in this boat, let me know what works. The mechanics of this type of foot tend to result in a lot of weight being carried on only a few points, rather than distributed across the foot... for me a lot of weight is carried on the ball of my foot and this makes wearing regular hiking boots very painful as they just do not have enough cushion. Again if anyone is in this boat, and I suspect very few, if any of you are, I'd like to hear what works for you.
I do know that Asics makes a trail shoe called the Gel Eagle made for my type foot, but I've not run across it in my size ever at a store. I may have to mail order it and take a chance on the fit, but I really hate to do that. Right now I'm broke anyway and can live with the NB for the time being.
Thanks for any suggestions you might have.
gravityman
06-30-2004, 18:55
That's my wife's foot type! Watch out for Neuroma's (a nerve between the 2nd and 3rd toe (usually) that gets inflamed, scars, and is VERY painful thereafter. Orthotics with a metatarsal pad could be useful...
Anyway, the only two trail shoes that we have found (we both have wide forefoot, narrow heal, but I have low arches) that works are the Asics Eagle Gel Trail III, but the cushioning is a little on the light side. We just switched to Nike Trail Zoom Cascades. They have the right last, and air cushion in the forefoot as well as the heel, but the "zoom" part of that makes the air cushioning a little more firm, which is good in a trail shoe (unlike the Trail Pegasus, which has a little too much cushion for our tastes - feels a little unstable).
Good luck finding these shoes in a store. Your best bet is a running store. You might have to ask them if they will let you special order them and return them if you don't like them. We were lucky, as in Boulder there are a lot of running shoe stores, and trail running is popular. For the Asics, we both had to go up a 1/2 size above our normal running shoe size. For the nike, I went up a 1/2 size, my wife stayed the same size as her running shoe.
Good Luck!
Gravity Man
Good luck
PS You might want to check out the Nike Steens as REI carries them. Not sure what the difference is between the Steens and the Cascades. I did try them on, and didn't like them quite as much as the Cascades, but when I look on line at the difference, there isn't much....
slatchley
06-30-2004, 19:42
I have Morton's neuroma, which necessitates a wide toe box. I can ONLY wear Lowa Chilkos, now called Sapporros, soon to be called something else. I wear these for everything. It is the only shoe that helped to solve my problem short of surgery, but it is not as light as the others mentioned, I dont think.
I also have narrow heels and a wide forefoot, without a doubt the best boots I have found for my feet are Garmonts. The heelcups on these things are astounding, just make sure you put your feet in the boot and then tap your heels back into them.
Garmonts, with the right insoles or orthotics, might just be the ticket for you, deffinately worth a try.
slatchley
06-30-2004, 21:18
What model Garmonts?
pokohiker
06-30-2004, 22:26
All this time I thought I was alone with the wierd feet. I've spent a small fortune on boots, socks and insoles and until recently have been disappointed. I found a pair of Merrell Pulse Mid with Gortex boot combined with an oversized Superfeet insoles cut back to my size and Smartwool trekking socks are the answer to my dilema. I recently had custom orthotics made only to discover that the Superfeet work just as well. Because I have a long, high arch I tried a size 12-14 superfeet and cut them to my size, 10 1/2. Works for me, good luck!!
Dave
P.S. My narrow heels fit perfectly in those boots with no hot spots. I wear them a little loose going up and tighten them coming down.
I have a similar foot, though I have a normal rather than high arch and a slightly narrower heel than normal. I have tried lots of shoes. The only shoes that have me an excellent fit was the previous models of the Lowa Tempest Low (most recent model doesn't fit me as well). There are a few shoes which are passable: the long discontinued NB 803, some of the activity shoes produced by Ecco, and Teva sandals.
tlbj6142
07-01-2004, 10:00
Wow. I was just about to post the same thread. Too many shoes with wide toe boxes have wide heelcups. Which is why, I think, I get blisters on the sides of my heels (with NB806 and my Adidas running shoes).
I'll have to check out Garmont (I have before, but didn't pay attention to the heel cup) and the Ascis.
slatchley
07-01-2004, 12:33
I started with the Lowa Tempest Low and liked it, but ended up going the goretex route. I use liners and expedition weight Smartwool and a tongue pad to help take up the extra room because I buy a size larger than I normally wear. This gives my tender tootsies lots of paddding, but sure gets hot at times. After reading posts a few years ago I tried going with really light socks and tighter shoes and that is when my foot problems began.
gravityman
07-01-2004, 12:51
I started with the Lowa Tempest Low and liked it, but ended up going the goretex route. I use liners and expedition weight Smartwool and a tongue pad to help take up the extra room because I buy a size larger than I normally wear. This gives my tender tootsies lots of paddding, but sure gets hot at times. After reading posts a few years ago I tried going with really light socks and tighter shoes and that is when my foot problems began.
Have you tried a metarsal support? This helped wonders for my wife. It's a bump that goes just behind the metarsals and seperates the bones to keep them from crunching the nerve - which is what causes the neuroma. My wife was able to train for and run a marathon with the help of good insoles with metarsal support. And we found running is a lot harder on the joints and feet than hiking for us...
Gravity Man
Gravityman,
I have significant nerve pain along the length of my second toe on my right foot, does this sound like the pain associated with Neuroma's? When running it would usually hit me at about 6 miles and stay with me more or less throughout the run as I recall. Not enough pain to prevent me from running, but close to it... you had to want to get the miles. I notice this pain with stiff soled boots.
Where do you get the metarsal supports?
slatchley,
The Lowa Tempest worked for me as well a few years back, but getting them repeatedly soaked I believe they shrunk a good bit. I hobled out of the mountains one day and threw them in the trash.
______________________________________
I'm thinking of just hiking in flip-flops :D
Try sandals-but only those designed for trails and/or backpacking.
My feet have operation scars on both and for years i could not find any footwear that either lasted or were comfortable enough to wear for any distance at all. Then I tried sandals and I have found nothing to even approach the comfort of my Teva Wraptors. I think it is because, after wearing them a week or so, the bottom of each foot "custom forms" itself to the top of the sandals and, eureka, each sandal becomes something even better than a $300 custom orthotic. That, however, is just my opinion.
Sandals have another advantage, too. In the mountains, especially on precarious trails-your feet are much more nimble in them than in any pair of heavy-soled boots.
Try a pair if shoes give you little relief. And remember, sandals were the footwear of choice for a heck of a lot longer than shoes have been :jump
Same kind of foot problem which I solved by having a pair of Limmers custom made. Were these ever great for the last 12 years or so until I had them rebuilt by Limmer. Bad boots! They now don't fit worth a damn. Just bought some EMS boots called Carter Ridge-about $125, and they seem like just the ticket. Bought 10EE when my usual shoe size is 9 1/2.I only have a few hikes with them, but they appear to be fine for me so far.
Doc
gravityman
07-01-2004, 14:38
Gravityman,
I have significant nerve pain along the length of my second toe on my right foot, does this sound like the pain associated with Neuroma's? When running it would usually hit me at about 6 miles and stay with me more or less throughout the run as I recall. Not enough pain to prevent me from running, but close to it... you had to want to get the miles. I notice this pain with stiff soled boots.
Where do you get the metarsal supports?
slatchley,
The Lowa Tempest worked for me as well a few years back, but getting them repeatedly soaked I believe they shrunk a good bit. I hobled out of the mountains one day and threw them in the trash.
______________________________________
I'm thinking of just hiking in flip-flops :D
Tough to say... Here's a link : http://www.footrx.com/foothealth/neuroma.htm
and another : http://orthoinfo.aaos.org/fact/thr_report.cfm?Thread_ID=233&topcategory=Foot
As for metatarsal supports, your best bet is to go with a sports medicine place that does insole. However, I have heard that Lyncos insoles are very good for OTC insoles : https://www.footrx.com/appieshop/index.cgi?footrxSTORE:CKIE:CATNEXT15:30:15++Footca re%20Products
There are several different types. The L405 seem right though...
Gravity man
What model Garmonts?
Pretty much any of them, they have a similar heel cup in all of their boots that I have tried on.
Moon Monster
07-01-2004, 22:23
Try sandals-but only those designed for trails and/or backpacking.
A great thread! This applies to me, too.
I also thought sandals would be a good solution since the heel straps are adjustable on some models (e.g., Teva Wraptors). I thru-hiked in Teva Wraptors. However, I would not do so again for several reasons, notably for this thread that they do not compensate for pronation very well.
Another shoe manufacturer possibility is Tecnica.
I have had orthotics, for metatarsal (transverse arch) support and widening of the forefoot, from breakdown of the transverse arch, from heavy loads and "foot pounding" in heavy boots.
I am using Best Feet, now. I am also purchasing regular shoes and sandals from Best Feet.
My heavy hiking boots are from Salomon. I forget the model. Have locking cams on the top lace eyelet of the speedlacing, nice.
My lightweight "light hikers" are Montrail Excelerace XCR trail shoes.
I have found the forefoot widens, with breakdown of the transverse arch.
I had injury to the third metatarsal, and a cast up to my knee for 6 weeks: Ouch !
Then, we found out "corrective shoeing" much like horseshoes on a horse make a big difference in posture and "gait". I also benefit from "heelstrike" support around the edge of the heel, avoiding sciatica.
I am not telling about the back injury!
I found that the shoes that are made straight ahead from the ball of the foot provide superior forefoot room and natural movement of all the toes: forefoot and room enough for the toes.
Do not purchase shoes or boots or sandals that push your toes over to the outside: "pointy toes" shoes or boots or sandals. This causes more problems.
I didn't figure this out myself. A nice DPM told me: a podiatrist.
Any newer advise on the Wide toe/narrow heel combination? I am interested in hiker shoes (not sandals nor boots).
Yep, I had this problem. I just kept crunching my toes. I used to have the Garments, too. The problem I had with going to a wide toe box was a slipping heal. Somebody recommended the low cut Merrill Moab ventilators in a wide size with an added insole. I would never have considered buying a Merrill product on my own, but that did the trick for me. However feet are different. Keep experimenting.
I'm dealing with the same issue--and I've recently been diagnosed with 2 Morton's neuromas in my right foot. I had orthotics made, but they don't seem to be remedying the problem. Left foot is fine and there isn't heel issues with it, but right foot needs a wider toe box now and the heel nearly always is too loose. I was thinking today of trying to create a thicker heel for myself by either taping or developing an extra bit of sock for the heel area only. I am currently trying to make a pair of Oboz work for me.
I do not have any problems with my feet, but I have a wide forefoot and narrow heel. Solomon was recommended to me at REI and I have very good luck with them. I have switched to merrell minimum shoes and find that after building up, they are the only thing I can hike in besides sandals and bare feet. I have tried the new balance, but they fall apart faster and pinch the forefoot, on me anyway. Good luck!
I don't have the narrow heel issue(reg size w/ heel spurs though) but it would seem to me it would be easier to address the narrow heel/heel cup after you FIRST get the proper wide forefoot shoe issue solved. Not that these two models necessarily have narrow heels but I'm really wanting to demo Keen's NEW Marshall and Alpha models as potential replacements to Targhee II's on some hikes. With a few prs of trail runners I got a better heel cup/cushion w/ gel shoe heel inserts. They might help to keep snug a narrow heel while also providing mor heel cushion. I had to play with it though because some heel inserts raised my heels up too high for the way some low trail runner model shoes are designed. It sounds like you have two feet that have different characteristics that might compound issues. I've known a few people that always had to buy two different sized prs of shoes when seeking one new pr of shoes. Uggh.
http://www.keenfootwear.com/us/en/product/shoes/men/outdoor/marshall%20wp/forest%20night!spicy%20orange
http://www.keenfootwear.com/us/en/product/shoes/men/outdoor/alpha%20wp%20cnx/neutral%20gray!tawny%20olive
Thanks for the feedback. I'll check out some of your ideas. The insert dilemma is one I've encountered before--where the foots is raised too much to fit the shoe/boot properly. The right forefoot has some nerve issues that I'm trying to resolve before beginning the trail. It looks like I'm gonna need to spend a lot of time trying on shoes and boots to get the fit that I need.
There are also side heel pads that attach to the insides of your shoes acting like bumpers that could snug up your heel that could be used with a heel insert or orthotic that cups your heel.
Ladytrekker
01-02-2014, 23:29
Teva trail shoes
Snowleopard
01-03-2014, 13:38
Vivobarefoot have wide toe box, narrow heel and are very light, minimalist running shoes. Rock protection to the bottom of the foot is minimal, but seems OK with my dr. prescribed orthotics. Altra is similar, with some nice hiking/trail running models, but the toe box volume is too large for my feet.
Of conventional hiking boots I've looked at Keen seems closest to what you're asking for, but they don't work for me.