View Full Version : Banned or Banished - Back to hiking!
Tramper Al
07-02-2004, 15:51
So, earlier this week I registered with another AT online bulletin board, which I won't name. I had to register in order to even see the posts. Anyway, since I am an experienced NE section hiker, winter hiker, peak bagger, etc., I started to give a little advice, you know answer a few questions that had been posed.
So, my third post was to help out a guy in Connecticut who wanted to start some hiking in his area and work up to the AT someday. He wasn't getting much advice, as the forums don't seem to get much traffic, so I suggested that in addition to that site, he might look at Whiteblaze.net, Outdoors.org, and Viewsfromthetop.com.
I swear that's all I did, and within less than an hour I seemed to have had my registration revoked, just 2 days after I joined! Kind of sad, really. Has anyone else had a similar experience? Please don't ban me from Whiteblaze for mentioning the other two sites.
johnny quest
07-02-2004, 15:58
you must have met wingfoot!!! i got kicked out for tiring of his political diatribe. want to have some real fun? email him and politely ask him why you were banned. twenty five cents says the reply is your without honor.
sherrill
07-02-2004, 16:09
The (now locked) thread titled "Sould we add TP links?".
Tramper Al, I'm sure your intentions are honest, but let's don't open that can of worms again. Let's talk about hiking! :)
Tramper Al
07-02-2004, 16:28
The (now locked) thread titled "Sould we add TP links?".
Ouch. I read that thread, and I'm still not sure I have any idea what the problem is. Clearly, it has nothing to do with hiking, though. At least I was on that site long enough to see I won't be missing anything. How did you both immediately identify the site I was talking about?
You want to talk about hiking? I am a New England section hiker who has closed out three states (CT, VT, and NH) in the last three months. I have only about 170 miles to go: The 55 mile wildness (Carry Ponds), the 100 mile wilderness, and the big Katahdin! I hope I can get back to Maine soon.
On the side, I am hiking the Long Trail, skiing the Catamount Trail, and paddling the Northern Forest Canoe Trail. So if I am banished, I can live with that.
johnny quest
07-02-2004, 16:40
from reading other's adventures with him you must have been banished for mentioning other sites. that is a no no.
Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 16:47
Little alarm bells were going off when I saw the Kerry presidential banner on that website, couple with the fact you couldn't access the posts without first agreeing to some anal code. Needless to say, I didn't register.
johnny quest
07-02-2004, 16:52
its really a shame. it is an ok site with lots of good info. not as good as here. but i found it first and had quit looking. thank god i found this place. this is much better info wise and i like the laissez faire attitude
Tramper Al
07-02-2004, 16:55
You're not going to draw me into a political discussion, no way. Just because someone supports the Democratic nominee doesn't necessarily mean he's thinking clearly.
Anyway, I thought we were going to talk about hiking.
Some pretty amazing hiking feats have gone down in New England recently. Who thinks they could hike the NE AT in calendar winter?
johnny quest
07-02-2004, 17:09
ochio sled, snowshoes, rubber tent. sure. why not?
Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 17:10
Some pretty amazing hiking feats have gone down in New England recently. Who thinks they could hike the NE AT in calendar winter?
Would that be an amazing feat?
SavageLlama
07-02-2004, 17:31
Would that be an amazing feat?Getting through the the Greens, the Whites and Maine would be pretty rough, if not impossible, considering they close a lot of the sections of trail. I wouldn't want to be in the whites during a winter storm, that's for sure.
Not to mention it's not very fun.. the shorter daylight hours means there's about 16 hours of darkness.. that's a long night in a tent or on a cold shelter floor.
I spent the night in Cooper Lodge on Killington this past January and while the hiking was great, the long, cold night sucked. Would much rather have been drinking Long Trail ales by the fireplace at the nearby Long Trail Inn.
Tramper Al
07-02-2004, 17:38
Off the top of my head:
In December/January, we had a couple who summited all 48 4000 foot peaks of the White Mountains in like 8 days. This was unheard of before they did it. One of them, alas a Yankee fan, just returned from the top of Denali.
Another fellow hiked mainly AT in the hut (Carter Notch) to hut (Lonesome Lake) traverse, again calendar winter, in like 17 hours I think. People have a hard time doing this in 24 hours in summer, typically.
Lots of single day Presidential traverses lately, as people like to try that around the Summer Solstice.
Another couple of guys climbed Katahdin and Washington in one calendar day. Others hiked Bear/Frissell (CT), Greylock, Mansfield (VT), and nearly Washington in a day.
Then just this week, we had an uberhiker walk the Long Trail (270 miles) in like 4 1/2 days!
And we mortals get to hike with these over achievers once in a while. So, yeah it's been a fun time to be a New England hiker.
Tramper Al
07-02-2004, 17:48
Getting through the the Greens, the Whites and Maine would be pretty rough, if not impossible, considering they close a lot of the sections of trail. I wouldn't want to be in the whites during a winter storm, that's for sure.
Not to mention it's not very fun.. the shorter daylight hours means there's about 16 hours of darkness.. that's a long night in a tent or on a cold shelter floor.
I spent the night in Cooper Lodge on Killington this past January and while the hiking was great, the long, cold night sucked. Would much rather have been drinking Long Trail ales by the fireplace at the nearby Long Trail Inn.
Yup, we've got the winter dayhike thing down pretty well, and routinely will go over 15 miles in and out by snowshoe, even if that means starting and finishing by headlamp. You can get pretty comfortable with it, given experience, the right gear and a fine group. Multiday overnight tripping in New England winter, though, is a whole other matter, in my opinion.
I have to disagree about trail closure, though. To my knowledge, no section of AT in New England is (ever) closed in winter, regardless of the weather. The exception would be Katahdin, which does require a permit and the rangers' blessing to pass. So, you could say it is closed on some days.
And I wholly agree about the ale by the fire!
johnny quest
07-02-2004, 17:50
try spending 5 days and nights laying...just laying, in a 10 man tent waiting for the blizzard to end. AND to really make it fun one guy has hypothermia and has to have an anal probe every hour or so. i was so sick of hot jello.......
Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 18:01
Off the top of my head:
In December/January...
One of them, alas a Yankee fan, just returned from the top of Denali.
http://www.nps.gov/dena/home/mountaineering/summaryreports/MNT2003.pdf
Go to page three.
"There were no winter summits on Denali or Foraker this year..." While the report does not specify the ascents by month, I was curious as to how recent your 'just returned' refers to?
Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 18:11
try spending 5 days and nights laying...just laying, in a 10 man tent waiting for the blizzard to end. AND to really make it fun one guy has hypothermia and has to have an anal probe every hour or so. i was so sick of hot jello.......
You should try getting Rocket to hike with you...
Tramper Al
07-02-2004, 18:12
"There were no winter summits on Denali or Foraker this year..." While the report does not specify the ascents by month, I was curious as to how recent your 'just returned' refers to?
Hi. Our guy did his White Mountain feat in Dec/Jan. He just recently returned from Denali, after hiking it in June. Two different events, you see. Still a bit of snow up there, apparently.
Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 18:18
Ah, I see. Thumbs up to the dude. I just had friends return after getting skunked by the weather in June.
smokymtnsteve
07-02-2004, 18:31
yep folks have already done denali this year
http://www.coolworks.com/gyt/blog/
The Old Fhart
07-02-2004, 19:35
SavageLlama-"Getting through the the Greens, the Whites and Maine would be pretty rough, if not impossible, considering they close a lot of the sections of trail. I wouldn't want to be in the whites during a winter storm, that's for sure.
Not to mention it's not very fun..'
Keep in mind everything is relative. Although I realize its not the A.T. (some of it is), check the list of hikers http://www.amc4000footer.org/finishers.htm who have finished the White Mountain or New england 4000 footers in winter. There are also quite a few who have climbed the hundred highest peaks in New England in winter and there are a number of those peaks that don't have any trails.
It isn't impossible, you just have to be more careful and know what you're doing. You can't pull a Bryson and say: "Gee, that sounds neat, let's do it" unless you want to become a statistic. I've worked on the summit of Mt. Washington for 4 winters and have done the NE100Highest in winter and have never had frostbite. I wouldn't recommend it but I can see someone doing the A.T. in winter if they really know what they're doing and have the proper training.
Pencil Pusher
07-02-2004, 19:38
So what do they do up there in the winter? Seems like a lonely place to be, other than the peak baggers poking around every other nice weekend or so.
AND to really make it fun one guy has hypothermia and has to have an anal probe every hour or so.
I don't understand.
Tim Seaver
07-02-2004, 22:59
Tramper Al>>>> Who thinks they could hike the NE AT in calendar winter?
Oh God....did you REALLY have to pose that question ? How about a winter calendar MONTH? ;)
I see you met WingFruit.
My experience was similar.
SavageLlama
07-03-2004, 00:01
It isn't impossible, you just have to be more careful and know what you're doing. All I'm saying is that hiking the AT in winter sure as hell ain't like hiking it in the other three seasons. Are there crazies that hike up Mt Washington in January? sure. But winter day trips (which can be tons of fun) and long-distance AT hikes in the winter are two different animals completely.
I've found that night after night of cold darkness is pretty dull. And having to constantly melt snow for water, not seeing anyone on the trail, losing the trail in huge snowdrifts, and getting stormed in for days on end is not only more than most people expect - it can be downright dangerous.
Pencil Pusher
07-03-2004, 03:53
You can't pull a Bryson and say: "Gee, that sounds neat, let's do it" unless you want to become a statistic.
Dang, I was going to type how I pulled a Bryson for my winter climb of Washington, but I googled the winter start date for 1998 and I was two days too early:( Muy suckage, I thought all this time I'd done a winter ascent. Anyhow, I drove up from Jersey that weekend without a clue and lucked out on the weather.
Tramper Al
07-03-2004, 07:26
Tramper Al>>>> Who thinks they could hike the NE AT in calendar winter?
Hi Tim,
Hey, I hope I more or less accurately related your amazing winter hut to hut feat, off the top of my head.
It is my understanding that the fellow named Dan Allen, author of 'Don't Die on the Mountain', succeeded in section hiking the NE AT in winter. I don't know of another.
My question was more or less inspired by thiis thread:
Winter SOBO ? (http://www.trailforums.com/index2.cfm?action=detail&PostNum=3451&Thread=1&roomID=7&entryID=28923)
I don't think I'll ever do it, just because there is so much Maine.
Addendum -
Another New England hiking feat: AT in CT 52 miles in one day! This just done 3 days ago by another of our superhikers. Amazing.
The Old Fhart
07-03-2004, 09:08
SavageLlama:"All I'm saying is that hiking the AT in winter sure as hell ain't like hiking it in the other three seasons. Are there crazies that hike up Mt Washington in January? sure. But winter day trips (which can be tons of fun) and long-distance AT hikes in the winter are two different animals completely."
Agreed. Having lived in NH all my life and hiking here for over 45 years, I've noticed the difference between summer and winter hiking is great. But I'm also not talking about winter day trips. The question was could the A.T. be done in New England in winter and the answer is obviously, yes. There are hikers who routinely spend a week in Baxter for winter climbing, I've slept at Bigelow Col, others I know have spent time on Denali or Rainier, people climb Everest. Would I try the A.T. in winter? No way! The point is it could be done.
Its just that I don't want hikers to believe that the mountains in New England are closed in winter. I always chuckle to hear NOBOs say that Katahdin closes on Oct. 15th. It never closes, the rules just change for the winter season. While some people might not think the challenge of winter backpacking to be worth it there are others who prefer winter to summer.
As to Pencil Pusher's question about what do we do on the Summit of Mount Washington in winter, the weather observatory is a non-profit research organization and the link is: www.mountwashington.org. Check: http://www.whiteblaze.net/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/3500/password/0/sort/1/cat/500/page/1 to see how I got to work. The winter shifts are Wed-Wed and these conditions aren't for everyone. Some people can't deal with being what they call isolated and don't last long. You can get killer sunrises and sunsets and go hiking in your spare time, weather permitting. My job was to maintain the instrumentation which could mean going out when it was nasty. Until you've been in 120mph winds at -34 degrees you don't know what nasty really is.
steve hiker
07-03-2004, 13:41
Until you've been in 120mph winds at -34 degrees you don't know what nasty really is.
Sounds interesting. :-?
Pencil Pusher
07-04-2004, 04:05
Until you've been in 120mph winds at -34 degrees you don't know what nasty really is.Hmm... how about 138mph on a crotch rocket in Texas (summer time)?:p;)
pokohiker
07-04-2004, 08:51
I met a guy last week with severe frostbite. His fingers and toes were black, missing about an inch and oozing puss, months after freezing. Hike during the winter in the NE, I don't think so. Even those who think they are prepared can and do come up short. I've lived here most of my life and know what bitter cold can be like. Guess I'm just a wimp. It's spring time on the AT for me. :sun
I met a guy last week with severe frostbite. His fingers and toes were black, missing about an inch and oozing puss, months after freezing. Hike during the winter in the NE, I don't think so. Even those who think they are prepared can and do come up short. Well, you CAN be prepared for cold weather. And you CAN prepare for mishaps. But of course you can't prepare for every eventuality. Sometimes just plain bad luck will do in the knowledgable and prepared hikers. But that applies to driving a car, also. The thing about winter hiking is that the consequences of being unprepared (or unlucky) are so severe.
But I have to say there's nothing I've found to compare to standing above treeline in winter, both in nice weather and when you need goggles against the wind. Plus, it's so beautiful up there in winter, it's almost painful.
And no bugs.
Lone Wolf
07-04-2004, 09:47
I was a snowmaker at Jay Peak, Vermont for 10 years and 1 year at Bromley. I know cold. :)
The Old Fhart
07-04-2004, 10:09
L. Wolf-"I was a snowmaker at Jay Peak, Vermont.........."
I get confused easily so please tell me you operated the snowmaking machine and that it wasn't something you ate that caused YOU to make snow :D
Bear Magnet
07-06-2004, 10:33
It is my understanding that the fellow named Dan Allen, author of 'Don't Die on the Mountain', succeeded in section hiking the NE AT in winter. I don't know of another.
I believe there is another gentleman who did the NE AT in the winter. I can't remember the guys name, but he is an Asian-American who had some sort of connection to Honey and Bear at the Cabin in Andover. He started at Katadhin on Jan 1st for a SOBO, and I think he got out of New England, but didn't get to finish his hike due to Lyme disease.
I actually met the guy coming down off of the Bigelows down into Andover. It was perhaps my worst day weatherwise on the trail last year, especially hiking at or above treeline. While it was a bit nicer down below, it still was not pleasant. And this guy is out in shorts collecting mushrooms.
Does anyone know this guy's name?
Thanks,
Bear Magnet
Jonathan Amato
The Old Fhart
07-06-2004, 13:11
Bear Magnet, try "Mr. Clean". I think others have mentioned him in some threads as well.
Bear Magnet
07-06-2004, 14:03
Bear Magnet, try "Mr. Clean". I think others have mentioned him in some threads as well.
Ah, that's right. Thanks, Old Fhart.
Bear Magnet
He started at Katadhin on Jan 1st for a SOBO, and I think he got out of New England, but didn't get to finish his hike due to Lyme disease. Those snow ticks can be pretty mean.....
Tramper Al
07-07-2004, 09:27
Those snow ticks can be pretty mean.....
A guy has the courage to attempt a solo southbound thru-hike, leaving Katahdin on January 1st. He succeeds in getting all the way through New England in winter. After all that, he has to leave the trail because of a potentially life-threatening illness. Is that funny?
In my opinion, this kind of adventure is to be admired and celebrated. I certainly hope that Mr. Clean has had a speedy and full recovery.
A guy has the courage to attempt a solo southbound thru-hike, leaving Katahdin on January 1st. He succeeds in getting all the way through New England in winter. After all that, he has to leave the trail because of a potentially life-threatening illness. Is that funny?No, getting bitten by a tick in New England in January is funny.
I just think of all the preparations the guy made: extra fleece, 4-season tent, crampons, showshoes, chemical heater packs, insulated boots, extra layers, double or triple layered gloves, goggles, facemask, etc etc etc. And he was done in because he didn't bring DEET? Man, there's gotta be some humor in there somewhere.
Bear Magnet
07-07-2004, 12:17
No, getting bitten by a tick in New England in January is funny.
If I recall the story correctly, he got bitten in the spring somewhere south of New England. I don't remember exactly where.
Bear Magnet
Jonathan Amato
If I recall the story correctly, he got bitten in the spring somewhere south of New England. I don't remember exactly where. That is a bummer. Sometimes you make all the right preparations and get blind-sided by bad luck. Tough break to make it through New ENgland in winter, then get stopped in VA or MD or wherever by a stupid bug.
I met Mr. Clean at Upper Goose Pond cabin in early July. He seemed to having a great time. He had foraged a wide assortment of edible mushroooms the evening I was at the cabin. I heard a few weeks later he had fallen ill with Lyme. Since my wife had a bad dose of Lyme in the early 90s, I am keenly aware of how bad it can be.