No Sleeping Bag?

[hiicprn]

Does anyone out there NOT use a sleeping bag? If not, what do you use? I absolutely hate the confined space of a sleeping bag and I tend to open mine up and use it like the quilt that Ray Jardin uses. Your opinions matter to me and I am very interested to hear from you guys. Thanks :sun

[steve hiker]

You sound like a summer hiker to me. Just wait till those big bad b-b-b-bears start prowling around your campsite. You w-w-wish you had a big deep sleeeping bag to crawl into and Hide! :bse

[SGT Rock]

Didn't zip up for years, now I only use quilts.

[peter_pan]

Get rid of the tent too. Quilts and a hammock are the way to go. Comfort, warmth , and light weight.

[MedicineMan]

I'm with the Rock and the Pan on this one...tents are cute and sleeping bags very historical but why drive a model t when you can have a hummer?

[Jaybird]

if you're hiking ONLY in summer..HOT months in the South...there's NO need for a sleeping bag...send it home...(or leave it home)!


i always take mine on my long section hikes but, use it as a comfy mattress (as i dont carry a sleep pad)

If you're a disciple of Ray...you'll be happy to save the 3 lbs!
hehehehehe :D

[hungryhowie]

Does anyone out there NOT use a sleeping bag? If not, what do you use? I absolutely hate the confined space of a sleeping bag and I tend to open mine up and use it like the quilt that Ray Jardin uses. Your opinions matter to me and I am very interested to hear from you guys. Thanks :sun

I made my first down quilt after finishing the AT in 2000 and haven't used a sleeping bag (except during the coldest months of the Winter) since. By early summer, I discovered by accident, as did many other hikers, how nice it is to be able to use my sleeping bag as a quilt. As it got cooler again, however, I realized that the quilt idea continued to work and that while my sleeping bag was lightweight, I could shave some serious weight by making my own dedicated down quilt. When I got home, I designed and made my first down quilt that I used for several years. If you're interested, you can find the instructions to making your own at http://www.newsushi.net/quilt.html

My first quilt, the one in these instructions, keeps me warm into the upper 30s and weighs an incredible 17oz.

-Howie

[Fiddleback]

In early May I did my first-ever solo backpack. It was also the first time I've hit the trail without tent and sleeping bag. I relied on a Hennesey hammock, an Oware pad which I used doubled over to half length, a 13oz fleece throw which provided little benefit, and cold-weather and sleeping clothes that I always pack (I did substitute a heavier jacket which added about 6oz). It got down to 28F and I was comfortable except for recurring cold toes which would warm up after I had a snack.

Since then I've upgraded the cold weather clothes and ditched the throw. The insulated jacket and pants set I now have is warmer and far more compressable for about the same weight of the previous combination of cold weather clothes. I expect these, with a sleeping system of polypro or Smartwool long underware, balaclava, fleece gloves, and down booties, to keep me comfortable to 20F or lower. My concern now is that I may be too warm wearing the insulated clothes and too cool without them but with the summer temps now kicking in here in the Northern Rockies I really don't expect this problem until late summer.

This is an experiment just started and I've got a long way to go before I can conclude that it's going to work but I've done colder temps in the backyard with lighter clothes for a couple hours and I'm pretty confident that this system is going to work for me, mid-April thru mid-October in this part of the country. For other locales, it might even approach 4-season utility. But packing this way requires increased carefulness and situational awareness. And maybe a quick escape route :-? .

FB

[Pencil Pusher]

Okay, what's up with these hammocks? I'm not getting it. How is a hammock any more comfortable than a foam pad? What is it, the rocking motion creating a lullaby effect? It seems like a human pinata.

[SGT Rock]

You have to sleep in one to really get it, but I will try to explain as best I can.

With a hammock like the Hennessy you are not in a pinata, the hammock spreads out to your sides. true it does wrap a little and this is something that has to be taken into account for insulation, but this is also part of the beauty of the system. The bottom of the hammock (when you lay in it correctly) conforms to the body and supports it basically evenly at all points where it comes into contact. This allows your spine to position itself natuarally with the curve it should have and receive equal support accross all areas. If you sleep correctly in one, despit the experience you may have with a yard hammock, you will not bend like a bannana but lay fairly level with just a little raise to your head and feet. Now you can sleep on your side in a Hennessy just as comfortable as you would on a thermarest, but after a few nights, you will eventually convert to a back sleeper. I am normally a stomach or side sleeper in a bed, but I still find this true in a hammock.

Anyway, think of the benifits touted by all these new temperpedic (sp?) mattresses, and you will find that the hammock already had it. I really get a better night sleep in my hammock than on any bed I have ever slept on including water beds, waveless water beds, temperpedic, pillow top, and regular mattresses. I have a thermarest and consider it VERY substandard compared to my Hennessy. Now that pad weighs 24 ounces, but my hammock only weighs 31.6 ounces. Sure I need a pad to stay warm in my hammock in cool weather, or I can get two quilts - top and bottom - for the same weight just about as a singele down sleeping bag and stay just as warm since the down under me isn't compressed. AND the hammock is also my shelter, vestibule for gear, and bug protection. Plus, it can go anywhere two trees are far enough apart - so it opens up a lot of alternative campsites that a tent camper or someone with a tarp cannot.

[Fiddleback]

OK --- what's the deal! It's OK for SGT Rock to talk about hammocks and temperpedic mattresses in the same post but, geez, just last night in bed I turned to my Lady and said,"...this (new 3" memory foam mattress topper) feels just like the Hennessey but not as cold..." Now tonight I gotta go around and look out all the windows to see who's looking in. I hate doing that! It's like living a scene in a Hitchcock movie!!

For Pencil Pusher -- there is very little, if any, rocking motion when the Hennessey is staked out as directed. SGT Rock is right, the support is great and last month the hammock gave me my best-ever night's sleep on the trail. In fact, I overslept by two hours. :clap BTW, SGT Rock's website was the biggest influence when I made my decision to buy a Hennessy. Check it out.

FB

[peter_pan]

Pencil pusher,

Beside the great night's sleep and weight lower than most every other tent-pad-bag combo out there there is the liberation that lets you set camp virtually anywhere. Good hammock rigs set up in 2-3 minutes and if done in the rain remain dry, if done properly. No more crawling around on the ground. You get a chair to sit in or a lounger; as well as that bug free hanging bivi when it is time to sleep. You never get wet from the ground. Plus you have less impact on the environment that ground scraping tenters repetitively using the same sites. Not to mention, not being in the shelter or next to the other tents means never listening to the snorers. I like my Hennessy, with its attached Nest underquit, so much that I compare it to a mothers womb. Long comfortable nights of sleep and a rebirth each morning. Wind come from the west. So I normally pitch my hammock on east slope of ridges. With the east side of my fly pitched high I still get great weather protection and awake to many beautiful sun rises on clear mornings.

[SGT Rock]

OK --- what's the deal! It's OK for SGT Rock to talk about hammocks and temperpedic mattresses in the same post but, geez, just last night in bed I turned to my Lady and said,"...this (new 3" memory foam mattress topper) feels just like the Hennessey but not as cold..." Now tonight I gotta go around and look out all the windows to see who's looking in. I hate doing that! It's like living a scene in a Hitchcock movie!!

For Pencil Pusher -- there is very little, if any, rocking motion when the Hennessey is staked out as directed. SGT Rock is right, the support is great and last month the hammock gave me my best-ever night's sleep on the trail. In fact, I overslept by two hours. :clap BTW, SGT Rock's website was the biggest influence when I made my decision to buy a Hennessy. Check it out.

FB

:clap LOL. I love it. The funny part is I hear this from a lot of people. But no matter how hard I try, I have never convinced my wife to even try it once. Of course she has never hiked and never wants to, I think she is afraid she might just like sleeping in the hammock and would then need a new reason to not hike. :confused:

[MedicineMan]

You've convinced me, I think I'm gonna try it!

[Pencil Pusher]

Wrap yourself up like a burrito in that more durable emergency blanket (the one that doesn't make you sound like a candy wrapper). Stick the feet in the backpack and enjoy a warm and damp sleep. Or, spend the night in the hotel;)

[Lumberjack]

Hammocks and quilts go hand in hand and provide alot of comfort.
quilts in tents do well
quilts in shelters dont do well since the sides are not protected from the wind which lifts them up and sneaks in.

I was a hennessy/quilt user but due to outside influences (girlfriend) I am currently using a pair of big agnes insulated air core mats and a unzipped bag for the both of us in a tent.

[The Will]

hiicprn,


If you find standard mummy bags too restricting, than give Feathered Friends a look. The make very high quality down bags of varying sizes including semi-rectangular and rectangular bags. The often do custom work...I heard rumor that a person had them design a cresent-shaped sleeping bag for their dog.

www.featheredfriends.com (http://www.featheredfriends.com)


Just an option.


The Will
MEGA '97

[hiicprn]

I want to thank you all for the great suggestions and ideas. I haven't decided yet what I will do but I can say that I will probably go with a quilt of some kind. I may end up with 2 (one for the cold weather sections and another for when its....well.....hot). Hmmmmm...now do I have the nerve to make my own?

And now for something completely different.....a dancing Banana

:banana

[sticks]

I use an overbag rated to 35 and 1.5#, blanket when it is warm and if it gets too cool returns to a mummy bag. It is synthetic fill but for the 8oz saved and price I will continue to use it instead of going with down

[TakeABreak]

I use a down bag year round, I like to be warm at night, if its too hot I unzip it. I had guy that was using a space blanket and a fleece blanket at shleter one night with me and others. He kept rolling over and waking everyone up. the next day he asked if we minded if hiked with us for a few days, we told him no he could not and to let us know where he was going we would go somewhere else.

Cutting weight is cool and I try to do the same thing, I just better and lighter gear. But being an annoyance is just not cool, there is a such thing as shelter and trail educate.

[Deerleg]

Made my own quilt...well my wife helped a lot ;) , very light weight for summer trips when I was using a tarp. This summer I used my Hennessy with a verry light bag...maybe 2lbs. I did like the tarp with the quilt and it was the lightest combo I ever used, but I sleep soooooo much better in the Hennessy.

[Connie]

I don't find my Sierra Designs 3D synthetic "Dream Weaver" sleeping bag confining, or my Mont Bell U.L. Down Hugger sleeping bag confining.

If too warm, I have only the foot box zipped, and use as a quilt.

But zipped, I can sleep any which way I please: I can even stretch.


Connie

[MedicineMan]

Nunatak Arc Edge
Montbell Thermawrap Jacket
Montbell Thermawrap Pant
The Nest Underquilt

This grouping gives me a wide range of comfort from late April until probably November. After November I switch out the Edge for the Alpinist and add a balaclava and down soxs.

I'm at the point in believing that while hiking no jacket is needed, but I like having one in camp and not having to instantly go to the sleeping bag to stay warm...the jacket allows me to roam around the shelter area and explore but I hate to carry a jacket just to wear before sleep or when taking breaks during the day thinking it should be incorporated into the sleeping matrix thus allowing less bag/quilt to be carried.

I used to carry a WM Flight year-around but now the Thermawrap has taken its place from early November to late April, for the winter months I'll sub it with the Flight.

[Rain Man]

if you're hiking ONLY in summer..HOT months in the South...there's NO need for a sleeping bag...send it home...(or leave it home)!

Jaybird!!!!

I just did a short section hike from Deep Gap, NC to Wallace Gap, NC this weekend. As in the middle of AUGUST. How much of a hotter month can you get?

Froze my butt on top of Standing Indian Mountain the first night. Not quite as bad the second night in Big Spring Shelter, out of the cold windy fog.

But I'll not go back without a sleeping bag. This time I took a zip-up fleece blanket. Not good enough in my book. Maybe I just sleep cold? I had a 3/4 Therma-rest pad.

My mileage varied from yours!
:sun
I realize elevation and weather had something to do with this.

Rain Man

.

[MedicineMan]

that is a caloric expending section and you were probably in a calorie deficit when it was sleep time..... 1ounce of olive oil before bed, either slugged or mixed with dinner is good for hikers anytime of the year.....its also good to keep a 1-2ounce bottle of the stuff in your daypack for emergencies...i dont think there is anything more calorically dense out there except for a chunk of pure lard....

[Rambler]

Last summer, early August, I forgot my sleeping bag while hiking the Mahoosuc Range in Maine. Did not make it through a night without waking up cold despite wearing most of my gear. Having something spread over me made a big difference. With quilts, they need to be wider than one might think because draft will leak in the sides especially if you sleep on your side or roll over. Making a quilt from the pattern in Jardin's book, I added a zipper up one side and along the bottom, so it can be used as a sleeping bag, too. With a zipper along the bottom, your feet can stick out, so it can be worn around camp like a coverall and it's easy for getting in and out of a hammock. Making a down quilt from the site mentioned above is a lighter weight alternative to the Jardin model which I rarely use anymore. Not making the down version wide enough, I added a nylon only floor, ie., a length of nylon (no down) sewn to the edges. This has been a great addition. No more drafts from the side or rollong out from underneath at night. Hammocks, too, are easy to make and very comfortable, and because they need to be under a tarp, it gives you a tarp to sleep under, if you want a night on the ground.

http://speerhammocks.com

http://www.peak.org/~webdawg/Hammocking/MirageHammockSystem/

[Youngblood]

Jaybird!!!!

I just did a short section hike from Deep Gap, NC to Wallace Gap, NC this weekend. As in the middle of AUGUST. How much of a hotter month can you get?

Froze my butt on top of Standing Indian Mountain the first night. Not quite as bad the second night in Big Spring Shelter, out of the cold windy fog.

But I'll not go back without a sleeping bag. This time I took a zip-up fleece blanket. Not good enough in my book. Maybe I just sleep cold? I had a 3/4 Therma-rest pad.

My mileage varied from yours!
:sun
I realize elevation and weather had something to do with this.

Rain Man

.

Hey Rain Man,

I was in the Smokies camping out around 6000 feet last week and it got down in the low 40's for a night or two. I think we might have had some 'near record' low temps for that time of year. Fleece sleeping bags of the WalMart variety wouldn't have cut it too well on those nights... I figure they are worth about 10 to 15* of insulation on their own.

Oh, and for what it is worth, a companion of mine who has NO body fat could not stay warm on two nights. He was using REI's Travel Down with hood that they rate to 45*. It looked to have noticably less loft than my Western Mountaineering 40* Highlite bag. (I also may have had a little help in that no one describes me as having NO body fat... but I would rather not go there.) I was warm enough that I used my bag as a quilt. Now, there were three other things that I had they he didn't that might have made a significant difference: a fleece hat, a fleece neck gaiter and a Stephenson DAM (used it to offset the hard floors). My companion, on the other hand, had a full head of hair (don't want to go there either), no neck gaiter and a ProLite 3 full length Thermarest that is 1" thick.

Youngblood

[Alligator]

...Now, there were three other things that I had they he didn't that might have made a significant difference: a fleece hat, a fleece neck gaiter and a Stephenson DAM (used it to offset the hard floors). My companion, on the other hand, had a full head of hair (don't want to go there either), no neck gaiter and a ProLite 3 full length Thermarest that is 1" thick.

Youngblood
A fleece hat and neck gaiter make a very large difference in sleeping comfort. Don't know what a Stephenson DAM is, but a full length Prolite 3 is good for 3-season use and has an r-value of 2.3.

I tried the fleece bag only this summer and was not comfortable. I used the Campmor fleece mummy, which seems to be less thick than say a 200wt Polar fleece mummy. I had a watch cap type hat, may be thermolite. A was slightly cold in low 60's degree weather, plus had one chilly night. The main problem that I had was that a torrential downpour created flooding in my tarp. Never had this happen before, but the choice of a microdepression and intense rain left me in a 1/2 inch pool of water. (New mental note for tarp placement.) The fleece mummy got a little wet, and I spent a chilly uncomfortable night out.

I'll probably get a 40 degree bag to lighten up in the summer, but won't go the fleece mummy route again.

[Youngblood]

A fleece hat and neck gaiter make a very large difference in sleeping comfort. Don't know what a Stephenson DAM is, but a full length Prolite 3 is good for 3-season use and has an r-value of 2.3.


The Stephenson DAM is a 4 inch thick down filled air mattress ( http://www.warmlite.com/bags.htm#anchor146829 ). It is very cushy and very warm. Think of about 4 of the Prolite 3's stacked, it terms of both cush and warmth. Extra insulation underneath you can sometimes make up for marginal insulation on top of you, especially when you are suspended off the ground on raised floors, etc. You are right about the fleece hat and neck gaiter, a whole lot of warmth and flexibility for just a few ounces.

Youngblood

[Alligator]

Hey, those are DAM nice! But that link has a picture of a nekkid woman:D ! I didn't see the r-values, but found others with 7+. Seems like a good product, I'm surprised I've never seen them before. Now that you spelled it out, I remember a friend mentioning them once. I guess the only down side is the higher price. The weight is probably a drawback for ultralighters, but it's features likely shine for winter use. And the comfort looks great. I wonder if the price could be lowered by using polarguard?

Well seems like someone has already down it with Primaloft. http://www.pacoutdoor.com/index.cfm?action=product&productID=6&groupID=1&familyID=1

[Rain Man]

... Now, there were three other things that I had they he didn't that might have made a significant difference: a fleece hat, a fleece neck gaiter and a Stephenson DAM (used it to offset the hard floors). My companion, on the other hand, had a full head of hair (don't want to go there either)...

NO hair here either to speak of... I trim it very close, what there is of it.

I did take a thin knit cap. Actually it's my bicyling REI cap, which will fit under a bicycling helmet. So, that tells you it's pretty thin.

Also, I have a Buff. You know what those are? Doesn't matter if you don't, because I had just mailed it to my daughter Grass in NH. (She got it yesterday on Mt. Washington!!!). So, no neck gaiter either.

I did have gloves, the thin wind-proof, water-proof (?) ones from REI, under which you can (I didn't) wear thin knit gloves.

So, no thick knit cap and no neck gaiter. Next time, I suppose I'll take those, even in the "HOT" month of August, into those Southern elevations! :)

Oh, one more thing. We failed to eat before bedtime, after hiking the mountain. We had grabbed a Wendy's burger and ate it on the drive not long before arriving at Rainbow Springs and thought that would suffice.

True we didn't feel hungry, but then there was no extra "fuel" in my belly for my body to be burning up through the night.

Anyway... I learned a few things about myself and the mountains and August. :) I don't think my zipper thermometer EVER got above 65 degrees the whole weekend. It was very pleasant T-shirt hiking weather, at least.

:sun

Rain Man

.

[Furlough]

Rock,
What is the total weight of your Hammock system when rigged for cold weather? (Hammock, Tarp, under quilt etc.)

Furlough

[peter_pan]

Furlough,

great subject...there are other Posts on weights....but here is a good mark.

Hennessy extreme light racer ( Hammock only) 13 oz, JacksR Better 8x8 Tarp with 4 ea 9 foot cords 10.5 oz, Nest underquilt incl suspension system 21 oz , No Sniveler top quilt 19 oz, and Python Skins 2 oz and 2 ti stakes0.4. Total weight 65.9 oz or 4.1 lbs.

[Pencil Pusher]

...i dont think there is anything more calorically dense out there except for a chunk of pure lard....
Mmmm, lard sandwiches. I remember someone from Wisconsin telling how he ate lard sandwiches as a kid.:eek: Yech.