View Full Version : Trail Magic workshop - Photos and input sought
In a few weeks I'll be giving a workshop to discuss trail magic at the A.T. Festival (http://www.vermont2009.org) in Castleton, Vermont.
I'm going to be showing photos that illustrate the spectrum of trail magic, provide a few quotes I've gathered, review the trail magic suggestions (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BB8A229E6-1CDC-41B7-A615-2D5911950E45%7D/Trail%20Magic%20Suggestions8-3-07.pdf) that were developed a couple of years ago by ATC (with input and feedback from folks here at WhiteBlaze, ALDHA and elsewhere), and invite discussion from the audience.
I'd like to include more photos that illustrate trail magic or quotes that explain what it means to you today, and what role it has played in your A.T. experience. I expect most of this to be positive, but if hikers, trail maintainers, trail managers, or trail angels themselves have problems or concerns, I want to include that too.
Please send any high-resolution digital photos (for use in a PowerPoint) you'd be willing to have shown or comments you'd like shared to:
Laurie Potteiger
[email protected]
ATC Information Services Manager
If you have comments about the trail magic suggestions themselves, please send those along too. Looking forward to seeing you in Vermont!
Lone Wolf
07-01-2009, 20:28
all so-called "trail magic" should only be done in trail towns. never at road crossings or shelters
In a few weeks I'll be giving a workshop to discuss trail magic at the A.T. Festival (http://www.vermont2009.org) in Castleton, Vermont.
I'm going to be showing photos that illustrate the spectrum of trail magic, provide a few quotes I've gathered, review the trail magic suggestions (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/atf/cf/%7BB8A229E6-1CDC-41B7-A615-2D5911950E45%7D/Trail%20Magic%20Suggestions8-3-07.pdf) that were developed a couple of years ago by ATC (with input and feedback from folks here at WhiteBlaze, ALDHA and elsewhere), and invite discussion from the audience.
I'd like to include more photos that illustrate trail magic or quotes that explain what it means to you today, and what role it has played in your A.T. experience. I expect most of this to be positive, but if hikers, trail maintainers, trail managers, or trail angels themselves have problems or concerns, I want to include that too.
Please send any high-resolution digital photos (for use in a PowerPoint) you'd be willing to have shown or comments you'd like shared to:
Laurie Potteiger
[email protected]
ATC Information Services Manager
If you have comments about the trail magic suggestions themselves, please send those along too. Looking forward to seeing you in Vermont!
Can of worms just opened:)
http://williamthecoroner.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/istock_can-of-worms.jpg
Jack Tarlin
07-01-2009, 21:07
No, this is not a can of worms.
LaurieP is a great friend of the Trail; a former thru-hiker; and has also worked tirelessly for the ATC for many years.
Read her post. All she's asking for is your photos and comments, period. Anyone who wants to do this, great. Anyone with another agenda, i.e pro or anti Trail Magic, etc, well do it somewhere else. All Laurie asked is for photos. Serious comments about Trail Magic or raves about how awful today's hikers are, well send then somewhere else, or better yet, write Laurie a real letter with your real name on it if you're that concerned.
But there's no "can of worms" here. Laurie made a simple request.....send her your pictures and remarks.
And that's all, folks.
Cookerhiker
07-01-2009, 21:55
all so-called "trail magic" should only be done in trail towns. never at road crossings or shelters
Wolf, you have a very narrow sense of what "trail magic" is. Meals, hiker feeds, etc. are but one small slice of the various kinds of trail magic. The best trail magic I received was when I was hiking NH, I lost a trekking pole tip in the mud; by the time I realized my loss and went back looking for it, it was like a needle in a haystack. An hour later, a thruhiker caught up to me and produced it: "Did you lose this?" It made my day.
Lone Wolf
07-01-2009, 21:58
Wolf, you have a very narrow sense of what "trail magic" is. Meals, hiker feeds, etc. are but one small slice of the various kinds of trail magic. The best trail magic I received was when I was hiking NH, I lost a trekking pole tip in the mud; by the time I realized my loss and went back looking for it, it was like a needle in a haystack. An hour later, a thruhiker caught up to me and produced it: "Did you lose this?" It made my day.
i know what real trail magic is but i think laurie is referring to planned feeds and coolers left at roadsides and the like which isn't magic at all
Blissful
07-01-2009, 22:47
We loved doing our hiker picnic in Shenandoah this year, it was very rewarding to say the least, meeting the hikers from around the world and getting to know them, and we can't wait to do it again next year. Had a blast with them.
Laurie: I`ll send ya a pic or two of the Brown Gap Hikers Feast which is by far the largest trail magic ever in one spot ;-)
Jack Tarlin: Please contact me asap.
Wolf: I expect to see you at Brown Gap 20 yr. reunion.
RAT
Laurie's presentation on Trail Magic can only be a good thing. I hope it is well attended and received. Maybe some year it can be repeated in the South.
Jack Tarlin
07-02-2009, 00:25
Rat:
My mailbox here is not working.
You can always reach me at baltimorejack at hotmail dot com
Thanks much Jack, you`ve got mail !
Lone Wolf
07-02-2009, 05:54
Rat:
My mailbox here is not working.
You can always reach me at baltimorejack at hotmail dot com
it ain't workin' cuz you gotta clear it out of old messages. very easy to do
Lone Wolf
07-02-2009, 05:55
Laurie: I`ll send ya a pic or two of the Brown Gap Hikers Feast which is by far the largest trail magic ever in one spot ;-)
Jack Tarlin: Please contact me asap.
Wolf: I expect to see you at Brown Gap 20 yr. reunion.
RAT
pretty unlikely that i'll be there
Laurie asked Wolf and others on this list who have comments about the trail magic suggestions themselves, to "please send those along too".
I don't see why they need only be presented in a private e-mail.
Wolf's observations seem to be more pointed than the Trail Magic suggestions provided in the link.
The recommendations presented under the ATC and ALDHA logos are interesting. I am curious about how they came to be, however. And why.
Cookerhiker
07-02-2009, 07:11
i know what real trail magic is but i think laurie is referring to planned feeds and coolers left at roadsides and the like which isn't magic at all
I agree with you on that - whatever the virtues of organized hiker feeds, it ain't "magic" when it's so well-publicized and planned.
I did an unpublicized one-day, one-man feed myself in MD 3 years ago and had a good time. Served 17 thruhikers, none of whom were expecting it.
Rockhound
07-02-2009, 08:28
The more I think about it the more I think trail magic is getting a little out of hand. New young hikers hear about it at Springer or prior and it turns em' into expectant, entitled, demanding, unappreciative jerks or at the very least attracts more of their ilk. I'd like to see trail magic limited to spontaneous acts of kindness on a small scale rather than these large advertised "trail magic" events.
I agree with you on that - whatever the virtues of organized hiker feeds, it ain't "magic" when it's so well-publicized and planned.
I did an unpublicized one-day, one-man feed myself in MD 3 years ago and had a good time. Served 17 thruhikers, none of whom were expecting it.
I kinda agree. While I'm not opposed to "event" type feeds and parties if they are done near but not on the trail, I don't think they qualify as "trail magic". Maybe that could be a qualification going forward to what is considered "magic" - that it's impromptu, unplanned, unadvertised - see a need and fill it for an individual or small group. Kinda like the fishermen summoning the loggers and their logging skip to help a group of hikers across a low-water bridge during the PA flooding. Not planned, definitely not organized, but very beneficial to a group of us, and it came out of nowhere.
In my opinion, lets just call an event an event and keep "trail magic" to describe the spontaneous acts of kindness like it originally did - that's what makes it magic.
I applaud Laurie for keeping a conversation going.
TJ aka Teej
07-02-2009, 10:02
I'd like to include more photos that illustrate trail magic
To me, "Trail Magic" should be unexpected, a true surprise.
A few years back I was camping at Abol Pines while working on the Companion and four GAMErs who were getting ready to enter Baxter the next day. A family camping nearby us came over and started asking about their hike, and later came by with a surprise:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=1331&catid=member&imageuser=314
That right there, that was "Magic"!
Thanks everyone for comments--keep them coming. No need to email or PM me privately unless you want to. I can use what you post here. However, the only way I can get a medium to high-rez photo suitable for PPT use is for you to email them or mail your images on a CD.
My mailing address is:
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
P.O. Box 807
Harpers Ferry, WV 25425
max patch
07-02-2009, 10:52
I'm going to assume that the "trail magic" being discussed is preplanned hiker feeds.
If you read the ATC position its basically we wish you would not do preplanned hiker feeds -- but if you do -- then follow these guidelines.
The ATC needs to sop pussyfooting around this issue -- make policy based on what is BEST FOR THE TRAIL and not worry about hurting anyones feelings as is the current situation.
Lone Wolf
07-02-2009, 12:05
I'm going to assume that the "trail magic" being discussed is preplanned hiker feeds.
If you read the ATC position its basically we wish you would not do preplanned hiker feeds -- but if you do -- then follow these guidelines.
The ATC needs to sop pussyfooting around this issue -- make policy based on what is BEST FOR THE TRAIL and not worry about hurting anyones feelings as is the current situation.
trailside hiker feeds aren't illegal. the ATC can only make suggestions not policy, the feeds ain't gonna go away no matter what
My presentation will discuss trail magic in all its forms, from the traditional, spontaneous random acts of kindness to the pre-planned feeds (which some consider "trail magic"--especially recent hikers, and some don't).
The guidelines are not focused just on feeds, and if feeds are done off-trail or in developed areas that takes care of most of the concerns. Unattended food in the backcountry can create trash that becomes an eyesore, and a problem for volunteer morale. There are also potential problems with animals getting into food.
ATC has so far decided to go the route of education, rather than developing a formal policy. We embrace trail magic that is done responsibly and has positive impacts for hikers and the trail environment, as well as the volunteers who care for it.
In the last year, here at ATC HQ we haven't heard of any problems or conflicts (I was asked to do this workshop more than a year ago). I'm trying to get a sense of whether trail magic is being done more responsibly (in some cases I believe this is true) or whether local trail managers have just come to accept the practices they once considered problematic (my sense is this is also true, based on what I've seen on my section-hikes in the past year).
Laurie
Don't Feed The Hikers. :-)
Ox97GaMe
07-02-2009, 14:06
I met a southbound couple one time at Unicoi Gap while I was headed out to do trail maintenance. I threw them the keys to my car, gave them $40 and told them to go into Helen and eat a good meal on me. They certainly had earned it. They said it was the first trail magic they had received since back in Vermont.
In May, I picked up an injured hiker from Kincora hostel, took him home to Knoxville where he could arrange for a flight home and put him up for the night. He was back in Texas, scheduling surgery, just 24 hrs after breaking his ankle. Not sure if that is trail magic, or just helping out the walking wounded.
Seems every time I head to the trail, whether hiking or maintaining, I run into someone that needs assistance of some form. As long as these events continue to happen, I will know that I am putting myself in the right place at the right time. Of course... it is hard to say that the trail is ever the wrong place to be at ANY time. :)
Blissful
07-02-2009, 20:39
It was magic (I call it a blessing myself) for the hikers we did the picnic for - they were surely not expecting it until they came upon the sign I left in the shelter the night before.
And it was sure magic for us when Old Fhart had his going up in Maine (among other events we saw along the way). A big feed, but we had no idea it was happening until that AM.
So I beg to differ that planned events can't be magic. Maybe ask the ones that came and enjoyed the food and fellowship if it was magic to them...
Lone Wolf
07-02-2009, 21:24
So I beg to differ that planned events can't be magic. Maybe ask the ones that came and enjoyed the food and fellowship if it was magic to them...
it's just a feed really. nothing magical about it. what compels you and others to feed people that have plenty of money and food in their possession? it's really weird.
Jack Tarlin
07-02-2009, 23:04
What's weird??
What compels you to complain about this all the time, Wolf?
You've never taken a coke or a burger from a stranger or friend? You've never been in attendance at a roadside feed?
Please. Of course you have. You want pictures posted?
And on these occasions, you didn't have plenty of money for drinks and burgers or steaks or whatever?
Of course you did. So what.
Yet you ate the provided goodies with great gusto anyway.
So unless you want the John Edwards hypocrisy award, Wolf, give it a rest. Your "Trail magic sucks, hikers are greedy buggers!" argument is old and tired.
Do I agree with you that parties and feeds are better confined to parking lots and towns?
Absolutely.
But to condemn the practice of trail magic wholesale, well, no. That's a bit over the top.
Especially for someone who has witnessed the practice.....and enjoyed it......
so often.
Hey Jack (and anyone one else that qualifies), You don't think Wolf is actually serious do you ? lol Just another case of the dry dark humor with the intent of yanking peoples chains.
I too have plenty of pics !
See, I get it ;)
Hairnt !
Lone Wolf
07-02-2009, 23:34
What's weird??
What compels you to complain about this all the time, Wolf?
You've never taken a coke or a burger from a stranger or friend? You've never been in attendance at a roadside feed?
Please. Of course you have. You want pictures posted?
And on these occasions, you didn't have plenty of money for drinks and burgers or steaks or whatever?
Of course you did. So what.
Yet you ate the provided goodies with great gusto anyway.
So unless you want the John Edwards hypocrisy award, Wolf, give it a rest. Your "Trail magic sucks, hikers are greedy buggers!" argument is old and tired.
Do I agree with you that parties and feeds are better confined to parking lots and towns?
Absolutely.
But to condemn the practice of trail magic wholesale, well, no. That's a bit over the top.
Especially for someone who has witnessed the practice.....and enjoyed it......
so often.
oy vey :rolleyes: big yawn
The Mechanical Man
07-03-2009, 00:56
My presentation will discuss trail magic in all its forms, from the traditional, spontaneous random acts of kindness to the pre-planned feeds (which some consider "trail magic"--especially recent hikers, and some don't).
The guidelines are not focused just on feeds, and if feeds are done off-trail or in developed areas that takes care of most of the concerns. Unattended food in the backcountry can create trash that becomes an eyesore, and a problem for volunteer morale. There are also potential problems with animals getting into food.
ATC has so far decided to go the route of education, rather than developing a formal policy. We embrace trail magic that is done responsibly and has positive impacts for hikers and the trail environment, as well as the volunteers who care for it.
In the last year, here at ATC HQ we haven't heard of any problems or conflicts (I was asked to do this workshop more than a year ago). I'm trying to get a sense of whether trail magic is being done more responsibly (in some cases I believe this is true) or whether local trail managers have just come to accept the practices they once considered problematic (my sense is this is also true, based on what I've seen on my section-hikes in the past year).
Laurie
Hi Laurie,
Thanks for all you do to help the AT, here is a report from Smith Gap, Pa.
Nemo and I have cleaned up much less trash left from "Trail Magic" folks, at the Little Gap, and Smith Gap Pa. trailheads this year,.... thank goodness.
As you are aware, this was a problem area in the past, but there have been signs posted on the information boards at the AMC - Delaware Valley Chapter trailheads, asking that visitors in this area, follow the ATC suggestions for trail magic, and so far this season it's working.
However, I am not so sure it's because "Trail Magic" folks are acting more responsibly, .............I believe it's working, because the local AMC trail managers have come to NOT accept this practice, and installed the signs.
Thanks Again..................
FYI, we have 5 hikers, and one dog sleeping here at our place tonight.
If all the so called "Trail Magic" folks really want to help hikers for fun, just move near the AT, join your local trail maintaining club, and invite everyone to your house via the thru hiker handbooks, ................that's what we did 20 years ago. :)
The Mechanical Man
07-03-2009, 00:59
My presentation will discuss trail magic in all its forms, from the traditional, spontaneous random acts of kindness to the pre-planned feeds (which some consider "trail magic"--especially recent hikers, and some don't).
The guidelines are not focused just on feeds, and if feeds are done off-trail or in developed areas that takes care of most of the concerns. Unattended food in the backcountry can create trash that becomes an eyesore, and a problem for volunteer morale. There are also potential problems with animals getting into food.
ATC has so far decided to go the route of education, rather than developing a formal policy. We embrace trail magic that is done responsibly and has positive impacts for hikers and the trail environment, as well as the volunteers who care for it.
In the last year, here at ATC HQ we haven't heard of any problems or conflicts (I was asked to do this workshop more than a year ago). I'm trying to get a sense of whether trail magic is being done more responsibly (in some cases I believe this is true) or whether local trail managers have just come to accept the practices they once considered problematic (my sense is this is also true, based on what I've seen on my section-hikes in the past year).
Laurie
Hi Laurie,
Thanks for all you do to help the AT, here is a report from Smith Gap, Pa.
Nemo and I have cleaned up much less trash left from "Trail Magic" folks, at the Little Gap, and Smith Gap Pa. trailheads this year,.... thank goodness.
As you are aware, this was a problem area in the past, but there have been signs posted on the information boards at the AMC - Delaware Valley Chapter trailheads, asking that visitors in this area, follow the ATC suggestions for trail magic, and so far this season it's working.
However, I am not so sure it's because "Trail Magic" folks are acting more responsibly, ......I believe it's working, because the local AMC trail managers have come to NOT accept this practice, and installed the signs.
Thanks Again.....
FYI, we have 5 hikers, and one dog sleeping here at our place tonight.
If all the so called "Trail Magic" folks really want to help hikers for fun, just move near the AT, join your local trail maintaining club, and invite everyone to your house via the thru hiker handbooks, ................that's what we did 20 years ago. :)
Blissful
07-03-2009, 22:11
it's just a feed really. nothing magical about it. what compels you and others to feed people that have plenty of money and food in their possession? it's really weird.
...The guy and gal hiking who lost everything in a terrible apt fire but their backpacks in storage - and are hiking the traill to think things through and wonder where they will go when they get done. The gal told me the loss still affects them greatly.
Maybe they (like some others out there hiking and trying to figure things out in life) need a random act of kindness...to know someone cares.
It isn't about food and money. And it contributes to a person's life, which is much more valuable.
Blissful
07-03-2009, 22:26
If all the so called "Trail Magic" folks really want to help hikers for fun, just move near the AT, join your local trail maintaining club, and invite everyone to your house via the thru hiker handbooks, ................that's what we did 20 years ago. :)
It's the "so-called" in the above post that gets me. Pardon me, but we help hikers by what we do - and we don't have the option of selling our home and moving to a trail to make it look like we help hikers. It really doesn't matter how one helps, does it??? This isn't a contest to get the all powerful trail magic award from on high.
I mean I had a guy from WB offer us supposedly "nothing" on our hike BUT companionship at some shelters and tons of encouragement. That to me was just as much "magic" as anything and we loved it.
Honestly....
Survivor Dave
07-03-2009, 22:50
it's just a feed really. nothing magical about it. what compels you and others to feed people that have plenty of money and food in their possession? it's really weird.
I think you are just jealous that your cardiologist isn't allowing you to have any grease laden food anymore.:):o If you can't have it, no one can, huh?:D
Lone Wolf
07-03-2009, 22:59
I think you are just jealous that your cardiologist isn't allowing you to have any grease laden food anymore.:):o If you can't have it, no one can, huh?:D
on the contrary. i'm not seeing a cardiologist anymore and i eat greasy stuff. in moderation. i also run daily and take my meds. i can have it. i don't need it and neither do AT walkers :cool:
If you want to be fed and experience 'the magic' (and make the feeders feel special) walk NOBO with the spring mob.
If you want to make your own magic and enjoy more of the woods (rather than the walking party feast), bypass the feeds or walk SOBO.
We ain't gonna change a thing here. It's about personal preference. Either way is fine. Enjoy it the way you want to and never worry what others think.
... This isn't a contest to get the all powerful trail magic award from on high.
I mean I had a guy from WB offer us supposedly "nothing" on our hike BUT companionship at some shelters and tons of encouragement. That to me was just as much "magic" as anything and we loved it.
Honestly....
Nicely put.
It's a long way to Maine. If you get the chance, do as you can and don't worry about it. Flip all the burgers you want, offer rides if you want, leave cold drinks at trail sides, share lots of cookies, laugh when you can, cry if you have to, do it all. It means a lot more than you think.
middle to middle
07-04-2009, 09:58
I recall a pint of icecreamm a bag of popcorn a piece of corn on cob. and a lot of candy bars and of course water. THANKS
I think you are just jealous that your cardiologist isn't allowing you to have any grease laden food anymore.:):o If you can't have it, no one can, huh?:D
Your such a suck up Dave..................:banana
Gray Blazer
07-05-2009, 20:11
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/6/2/1/7/100_1983.jpg
Here's a pic from a trail feed I did back in Mar '06. There's a few more in my WB gallery on the 2nd page. Feel free to use any of them. I humped everything up to the top of Rocky Bald. I really enjoyed the experience, but, I prolly won't do it again.
The Mechanical Man
07-30-2009, 03:09
My presentation will discuss trail magic in all its forms, from the traditional, spontaneous random acts of kindness to the pre-planned feeds (which some consider "trail magic"--especially recent hikers, and some don't).
The guidelines are not focused just on feeds, and if feeds are done off-trail or in developed areas that takes care of most of the concerns. Unattended food in the backcountry can create trash that becomes an eyesore, and a problem for volunteer morale. There are also potential problems with animals getting into food.
ATC has so far decided to go the route of education, rather than developing a formal policy. We embrace trail magic that is done responsibly and has positive impacts for hikers and the trail environment, as well as the volunteers who care for it.
In the last year, here at ATC HQ we haven't heard of any problems or conflicts (I was asked to do this workshop more than a year ago). I'm trying to get a sense of whether trail magic is being done more responsibly (in some cases I believe this is true) or whether local trail managers have just come to accept the practices they once considered problematic (my sense is this is also true, based on what I've seen on my section-hikes in the past year).
Laurie
Laurie,
Thanks again for all you do to help the AT, and all the hikers.
Please update us all on any new information you have gathered on "trail magic", from the 2009 Vermont ATC Conference?