View Full Version : DO you HAVE to use shelters in GSMNP?
pafarmboy
07-05-2009, 21:10
Am contemplating a section hike from Fontana to Erwin in August. My basic question as a newbie is......
DO you HAVE to stay in the shelters in the Park, or can you tent nearby?
Thanks.
HikerRanky
07-05-2009, 21:18
The regulations state that you must stay in the shelters unless you qualify as a thru-hiker. The definition of a thru-hiker is someone that uses the AT exclusively whose trip begins and ends 50 miles past the park boundaries.
Randy
If you started at Franklin instead of Fontana, you would qualify as a thru-hiker.
However, in your current itinerary, you would have to call ahead, get reservations for each shelter you were staying at in the park, and then sleep inside the shelter. It's a drag, but it's the way it is.
You can tent if you hike the Benton MacCaye instead of the AT
ChinMusic
07-05-2009, 21:54
You tent at Site 113 (first designated site north of Fontana, before Mollies) (nice site by the way). Other than that you must stay in shelters along the AT. You still need a reservation for 113.
Silver Bear
07-05-2009, 22:17
You can call the Back Country office 865-436-1231 for information. This is part of the National Park service. They can make reservations etc for the shelters.
Ox97GaMe
07-05-2009, 23:13
the rule is that you MUST stay in the shelter unless it is full. there 2 spaces in each shelter that are left open for thru hikers. If the shelter is full, thru hikers Must give up their spot to a non-thru hiker that has a permit with a reservation number. Camping outside the shelter must be within sight of the shelter. Rhere are flat open areas near each shelter for this purpose.
Why is it mandated you stay in the shelters? I've never been. To cut down on environmental impact?
Whose to say you aren't "thru-hiking" 50 miles past the park?
Captain Blue
07-05-2009, 23:41
From Code Of Federal Regulations - Title 36, Chapter 1. The following regulatory provisions are established for the proper management, protection, government and public use of Great Smoky Mountains National Park under the jurisdiction of the National Park Service...
The use of tents at shelters is prohibited except by persons qualifying as thru-hikers on the Appalachian Trail (by definition an Appalachian thru-hiker is a backpacker who is using the Appalachian Trail exclusively while in the park and whose trip begins and ends a minimum of fifty miles outside the park). Thru-hikers may pitch tents outside shelters only when all bunks are otherwise occupied.
From: http://www.nps.gov/grsm/parkmgmt/upload/07%20Compendium.pdf
It is up to you whether you following the word of the regs or the people who post here.
Captain Blue
Dayton, OH
AT 6,200 Miler
pafarmboy
07-06-2009, 00:18
So, I would assume in August, chances are the shelters arent going to be full. Thus, shelters it is until out of the park. Yippee.
So...next question:
Have the tent maildropped to Green Corner Road so I dont have to lug 5.5 pounds for 70 miles? Yes?
So, I would assume in August, chances are the shelters arent going to be full. Thus, shelters it is until out of the park. Yippee.
So...next question:
Have the tent maildropped to Green Corner Road so I dont have to lug 5.5 pounds for 70 miles? Yes?
I would as long as I carry a poncho or something I could rig as a "just-in-case" shelter. Once in a blue moon, folks without reservations show up at a shelter and it is full despite reservations. Not common, but I've known it to happen on holiday weekends at least. But there's not a lot of good reason to pack a large tent for the AT in the Smokies.
Standing Bear would be a great spot to pick it up.
ChinMusic
07-06-2009, 00:45
Have the tent maildropped to Green Corner Road so I dont have to lug 5.5 pounds for 70 miles? Yes?
You're gonna want to carry some "emergency" shelter. If for no other reason than if you show up at a shelter late and it is full. It's not suppose to be full cause YOU have a permit, but it is. What you gonna do? Ask for permits? Kick someone out? Not me. I'm tenting and explaining my case to the ranger if questioned.
To emphasize the point...there is often chaos in the shelters. Quite a few people get off their reservation schedule on day one or two of their hike. Either they were overly ambitious in their planning, or they got lost, or something. One of my personal practices is to carry enough clothing/shelter that if I dropped on the spot and couldn't move another inch, I could spend the night without dying from the cold. That's not to say I'd carry my full tent and whatnot, but I'd at least have an emergency blanket/bivy.
A week ago I ran into an Israeli section-hiker. He was doing the AT in the Park as a section, but had not been able to get reservations in any of the shelters along the route. He was having to go way down off the ridge to Kephart Shelter and the like. If your vacation time isn't flexible, your hiking plan needs to be.
fredmugs
07-06-2009, 08:16
Ending in Erwin qualifies you as a thru hiker also. 50 miles either way.
If you started at Franklin instead of Fontana, you would qualify as a thru-hiker.
However, in your current itinerary, you would have to call ahead, get reservations for each shelter you were staying at in the park, and then sleep inside the shelter. It's a drag, but it's the way it is.
But why do they mandate sleeping in the shelters?
But why do they mandate sleeping in the shelters?
It's part of a quota system to limit and spread out impact of campers in the backcountry. In very high-use areas, the best thing to do is have a hardened site (a shelter is about as hardened as it gets) to limit the trampling of vegetation and packing down of the soil. It also limits how many people are supposed to be spending the night in the area to, for instance, 20, if that's what the shelter will hold.
Ending in Erwin qualifies you as a thru hiker also. 50 miles either way.
The issue is 50 miles BOTH ways. Starting at Fontana disqualifies him.
The park's definition of thru-hiker states "...an Appalachian thru-hiker is a backpacker who is using the Appalachian Trail exclusively while in the park and whose trip begins and ends a minimum of fifty miles outside the park..."
pafarmboy
07-26-2009, 13:41
To emphasize the point...there is often chaos in the shelters. Quite a few people get off their reservation schedule on day one or two of their hike.
So if I have a reservation for Derrick Knob Shelter, get there at 3 in the afternoon and decide to hike on to Silers Bald, I'm allowed? If not, what do they do, fine youif they catch you off of your reservation requests?
Hikes in Rain
07-26-2009, 14:50
I did, but then, I asked a ranger and it was late November so it wasn't like it was crowded.
So if I have a reservation for Derrick Knob Shelter, get there at 3 in the afternoon and decide to hike on to Silers Bald, I'm allowed? If not, what do they do, fine youif they catch you off of your reservation requests?
It all depends on the ranger, his mood, if you are nice or an ass, and if there is room or not.
Several times when out solo, I pressed on to another campsite late, and left early in the morning
Hikes in Rain
07-26-2009, 16:20
All in the approach, I'd think. I like chatting with the rangers and ridge runners, anyway, since they usually have the best and latest info. And I'm interested in what they do, which I like to think makes a good impression. In my case, I spent too much time rubbernecking, and it was obvious I wasn't going to make the scheduled shelter anywhere near nightfall. It was November and COLD!, the shelter before it was scheduled to be empty (actually, four guys walked up from Cades Cove without reservations), so when I asked if I could change schedule, the response was "Sure!".
Lone Wolf
07-26-2009, 19:38
DO you HAVE to stay in the shelters in the Park, or can you tent nearby?
Thanks.
PM me. i'll extremely simplify things for you.
gnbassett
08-25-2009, 16:37
Hiking through the Smokies sounds like a drag and the experience sounds as though it is the antithesis of why I hike the trail. Do I qualify as a thru-hiker if I start at Springer Mountain, walk a week then take 4 months off to resupply, continue on to Fontana Dam, take another 7 months off to resupply, then continue on through the smokies?
Obviously I'm being a little bit facetious, but I consider my section hike every bit a legitimate as someone's thru hike. I need flexibility through any section and I can rarely forecast from one day to the next how far I will hike.
The NPS needs to change its policy.
Pedaling Fool
08-25-2009, 16:49
Typical bureaucracy. How far (or how little -- inflexible) their definition of "thru-hiker" can be stretched depends on which official you talk with; I've seen bureaucrats squabble over definitions, it's somewhat entertaining.
bessiebreeze
08-25-2009, 17:11
Just call the GSMNP back country office and make reservations. Not a big deal. These regulations are written for every one's benefit. The Smokies are great, and the shelters are very nice, some of the best you will see on the AT. The water supply is good this year. Have a good hike.
jeepcj258
08-25-2009, 18:21
PM me. i'll extremely simplify things for you.
Can I pm and the simple version also? Planning on hiking in October.
Be prepared. Carry a tent or tarp and avoid the hassle of shelter living in the Smoky's. Most shelters are always full. Sometimes they are booked 30 days in advance and even if people don't show up they rarely if ever call and cancel their reservation. It's very uncool to try and evict a hiker from a shelter because you are a thru-hiker. We're all in this together so to speak and I've never seen a thru-hiker exercise the "right of imminent domain" at a shelter that wasn't met with a round of profanity from ALL occupants at the time.
ChinMusic
08-25-2009, 20:50
Be prepared. Carry a tent or tarp and avoid the hassle of shelter living in the Smoky's. Most shelters are always full. Sometimes they are booked 30 days in advance and even if people don't show up they rarely if ever call and cancel their reservation. It's very uncool to try and evict a hiker from a shelter because you are a thru-hiker. We're all in this together so to speak and I've never seen a thru-hiker exercise the "right of imminent domain" at a shelter that wasn't met with a round of profanity from ALL occupants at the time.
You got it ALL backwards. Permit holders have a spot. Thrus stay only if not full.
There is no preference for thrus.
aquaman1208
08-29-2009, 21:24
I'm going to call them Monday to check on Sept 14 start. Is it easier North to South or the other way around? It takes a little while to get my legs going. I suspect reservations might be tough.
The Great Smoky Mountains National Park are the most biodiverse place in the world, north of the Tropics. We also have 90% of the Old Growth Forest left in the East. Most of the biodiversity occurs in the old growth pockets, which are located on and near the AT. Several of the species that are rare and endangered are found only in the Smokies. Most folks who backpack in the Park do so along the AT so it is important to mitigate the impact in those precious areas.
You can tent if you hike the Benton MacCaye instead of the AT
More remote, less used and only one shelter (of three on the entire trail :) ). If prefer a corridor approach to your long hikes, go for the BMT.....
All backcountry, overnight stays in the GSMNP are supposed to be at designated campsites by reservation and registration. There are shelters, rationed campsites, unrationed campsites and horse camps. I think all backcountry sites on the AT in the Smokys are shelters.
The only non shelter site is Birch Springs, campsite 113. This used to be a shelter and was taken down. All of the AT shelters have been renovated except Russel, which has been closed all year. Davenport Gap was renovated but still has the bear fencing. All the sites have steel cable pulleys meant to hang the packs except Davenport Gap. Most of the shelters also have composting privies.
What about hammocks? I don't use a tent at all and unless there is really bad weather I don't like staying in shelters.
What about hammocks? I don't use a tent at all and unless there is really bad weather I don't like staying in shelters.
Hammockers are special. They get to do anything they want.:banana
sasquatch2014
12-03-2009, 08:27
Hammockers are special. They get to do anything they want.:banana
if Asked just tell them you are protesting the destruction of trees from acid rain and you were going to chain yourself to the trees but chains are heavy and you wanted to be comfortable during your overnight silent protest.:rolleyes:
earlyriser26
12-03-2009, 09:02
I have hiked the park 7 times and the idea of permits goes out the window as soon as you reach a shelter. During peak season you find many people hiking without permits. You also have people with permits at the wrong shelter by choice or necessity. Get a permit, but carry a tent. I have NEVER hiked the park and not needed one. It is entertaining to watch someone with a permit insist that others leave the shelter. It evolves into a first come first serve system.
Hammockers are special. They get to do anything they want.:banana
Lol, well the reason I asked is that being in a hammock, I have actually gotten special treatment. A buddy and I accidentatly camped in an area that was no camping due to over use (sign was at ranger station we didn't stop at). Along comes a ranger the next morning and proceeds to write us a warning - but not a ticket because "we hadn't disturbed the area" since we didn't trample any of the grass to pitch a tent.
Guess I should probably just call the GSMNP rangers.
You tent at Site 113 (first designated site north of Fontana, before Mollies) (nice site by the way). Other than that you must stay in shelters along the AT. You still need a reservation for 113.
Campsite 113 is closed due to bear activity. From what I saw this fall almost all of them could be closed. Bears everywhere.
I have hiked the park 7 times and the idea of permits goes out the window as soon as you reach a shelter. During peak season you find many people hiking without permits. You also have people with permits at the wrong shelter by choice or necessity. Get a permit, but carry a tent. I have NEVER hiked the park and not needed one. It is entertaining to watch someone with a permit insist that others leave the shelter. It evolves into a first come first serve system.
So if I understand this thread correctly, the rangers will be there to bust your nutz if you tent out when the shelter is not full, but they take no part in sorting out issues at the shelters regarding reservations?
Also, how do the rangers know where you started and where you intend to finish? Just tell them you started in Honolulu and intend to finish in Barcelono.
I have hiked till dark and departed before sunrise, hanging my hammock in the woods in the proximity of campsites. Illegal? Possibly depends on the ranger. I've never seen a ranger deep in the back country during night time.
earlyriser26
12-03-2009, 19:21
So if I understand this thread correctly, the rangers will be there to bust your nutz if you tent out when the shelter is not full, but they take no part in sorting out issues at the shelters regarding reservations?
Also, how do the rangers know where you started and where you intend to finish? Just tell them you started in Honolulu and intend to finish in Barcelono.
I have not been in the smokies for 10 years, so maybe things are different now, but on my 7 hikes I never saw a ranger once. I'm sure they would bust nutz if they were around.
I have not been in the smokies for 10 years, so maybe things are different now, but on my 7 hikes I never saw a ranger once. I'm sure they would bust nutz if they were around.
Things HAVE changed a lot. From 1985 through 2004, I never once saw a ranger or a ridgerunner in the backcountry in the Smokies. This included several scout trips in high school, 8 or so trips while I was in the Marine Corps in NC, a thru-hike, a section hike (the whole AT in the park), and several weekend trips after my thru-hike.
Then in 2005, I ran into rangers for the first time. In the 6 excursions in the park since, I have run into either rangers or ridgerunners 5 times. They were checking up on permits, and hikers without them had to move on during a couple of occasions. At least along the AT, enforcement has increased dramatically.
I'd still say odds are about 50/50 for most folks, but it's MUCH greater than it used to be.
futurethruhiker
12-03-2009, 20:04
I am well into the planning stage of my first thru hike and this is the first of many future questions. I thought staying in the shelters was an option?
have I missed some very important info? I plan to tent as much as possible. Here's the deal, for years I have thought about all the I must overcome to have a successful hike the cold, wet, blisters, bites etc etc.
The one thing the only thing thats just not working for me is the mice in the shelters! How silly is that? with all the discomfort I plan to experience that the mice would bother me...really bother me. So my plan was to tent as much as possible to minimize this problem. Is this possible?
I am well into the planning stage of my first thru hike and this is the first of many future questions. I thought staying in the shelters was an option?
have I missed some very important info? I plan to tent as much as possible. Here's the deal, for years I have thought about all the I must overcome to have a successful hike the cold, wet, blisters, bites etc etc.
The one thing the only thing thats just not working for me is the mice in the shelters! How silly is that? with all the discomfort I plan to experience that the mice would bother me...really bother me. So my plan was to tent as much as possible to minimize this problem. Is this possible?
If you are thru-hiking with the tidal wave of thru-hikers in March and April, you fill out your permit with "thru-hiker" and hike into the park. I can almost guarantee there will be enough other thru-hikers that the shelter will fill up if you sit, cook and eat dinner, and relax a while. Once the shelter is full, thru-hikers can then legally pitch their tent within sight of the shelter for the night. But also be aware that tenting close to a shelter can still sometimes mean mice.
futurethruhiker
12-03-2009, 20:40
So I learned something. It is required to stay in shelters if room is available? Knowing I missed this very important fact has humbled me just as all this planing was starting to fall into, well a plan. Your right I can just wait for the shelters to fill at least in the beginning weeks. Any other suggestions for a hiker who wants to tent as much as possible?
sasquatch2014
12-03-2009, 21:51
So I learned something. It is required to stay in shelters if room is available? Knowing I missed this very important fact has humbled me just as all this planing was starting to fall into, well a plan. Your right I can just wait for the shelters to fill at least in the beginning weeks. Any other suggestions for a hiker who wants to tent as much as possible?
As someone said dark to dark you are unlikely to see a Ranger. Do a late dusk and and a soon start and you will be pretty safe. By the way most Huntha(sp) virus is out west.
futurethruhiker
12-03-2009, 22:14
What's the Huntha (sp?) virus.
I ran into two ridgerunners in the Smokies. Niether one wanted to see my permit, even though I offered. Anyone ever had a ranger or ridgerunner question whether they were a section or thru hiker?
Appalachian Tater
12-03-2009, 23:08
I ran into two ridgerunners in the Smokies. Niether one wanted to see my permit, even though I offered. Anyone ever had a ranger or ridgerunner question whether they were a section or thru hiker?
They don't have to ask, they can tell by looking at you.
sasquatch2014
12-04-2009, 08:32
They don't have to ask, they can tell by looking at you.
Some of them can also tell if you are naughty or nice too, so be good for goodness sake.
The Solemates
12-04-2009, 10:54
I ran into two ridgerunners in the Smokies. Niether one wanted to see my permit, even though I offered. Anyone ever had a ranger or ridgerunner question whether they were a section or thru hiker?
I've actually bluffed using this same method of talking to and befriending the ranger on at least two instances (I was not carrying a permit), and they never materialized into actually wanting to see my permit....but that's rolling the dice.
If you are planning on hiking in the smokies, what is the harm in calling to get reservations? I just called two days ago for my trip around Christmas. Its not that big of a deal in my opinion, and it helps preserve this highly impacted ecosystem. Even if you dont stay 100% to your original schedule, rangers will be more inclined to cut you some slack if you do at least have reservations for the duration of your jaunt through the area. Whether or not you are "thru-hiking" or going for an overnight doesnt matter in my mind - at least give them a call.
sparky2000
12-04-2009, 11:29
When trekking thru the smokies, the main concern of the authority that I talked to was - "Who is feeding the bears?", and "Be careful to hang your food and smelly stuff securely to the chains!" The only reason to fear tenting and such is if some egg-head splashes eggs in your direction. The only thing to fear is....
Hikes in Rain
12-04-2009, 12:01
The two ridgerunners and three rangers I've met on the AT through the Smokies were helpful, friendly, cheerful, informative and concerned. Both ridgerunners inquired about my permit, but didn't ask to see it. (Probably because I relayed the story of counting down the seconds until 30 days before my hike, and hyperventilating because I couldn't get through the busy signals!) When it was obvious I wasn't going to make it to one of my reserved shelters (Mollies Ridge) until well after dark on a cold, cold November night, a ranger at Spence Field, who'd politely asked which shelter I was heading for, advised me to stop at Russell Field instead. He also told me not to worry about being at the wrong shelter; Russell wasn't anywhere near booked that night, and if another ranger or ridgerunner asked, tell him that _____ (I don't remember the name he gave now) had cleared it.
Jester2000
12-04-2009, 12:19
Hiking through the Smokies sounds like a drag and the experience sounds as though it is the antithesis of why I hike the trail. . .
Then don't hike in the Smokies. Or, if completing the trail is a big deal for you, start 50 miles before the park and end 50 miles after. Or, if you're not into the whole truth thing, lie about your status.
Alternately, NPS could change its policy based on your needs. Good luck with that.
So I learned something. It is required to stay in shelters if room is available? Knowing I missed this very important fact has humbled me just as all this planing was starting to fall into, well a plan. Your right I can just wait for the shelters to fill at least in the beginning weeks. Any other suggestions for a hiker who wants to tent as much as possible?
Keep in mind that this thread is only about the Smokies. I'm not sure, but I'm getting the sense from your posts that you think this is a trail-wide regulation. Sorry if I'm misinterpreting.
They don't have to ask, they can tell by looking at you.
And smelling you.
Just Plain Pete
05-20-2010, 22:25
Hiked the upper half b4 Christmas. Managed to stay at only one shelter where we had a reservation. About half the folks in the shelter had reservations. Some had come in through side trails, at least one guy who brought his dog, had no reservations at all. Tented one night, and watched others tent the other nights. Never saw a ranger or ridgerunner. It rained or misted the whole trip and was worth every minute.
Bear Cables
05-30-2010, 00:48
Why would someone who has a permit and reservation for a shelter,who has followed the rules feel like they can't politely bump a non reservartion hiker? Isn't that the whole purpose of having the reservation? to ensure you have a space at the shelter?
Why would someone who has a permit and reservation for a shelter,who has followed the rules feel like they can't politely bump a non reservartion hiker? Isn't that the whole purpose of having the reservation? to ensure you have a space at the shelter?The heart of the matter.....and I can't really answer it cause I haven't had to deal with it, but if you want to follow the rules in the GSMNP then you will have to for shelters along the AT at certain times during the year, not to mention how tough it is to get reservations at the best campsites in the park at times. My own strategy, and part of the reason I've never had a problem, arrive way earlier than normal. Done....
Rain Man
05-30-2010, 09:34
Why would someone who has a permit and reservation for a shelter,who has followed the rules feel like they can't politely bump a non reservation hiker? Isn't that the whole purpose of having the reservation? to ensure you have a space at the shelter?
Excellent question!!! I think the answer boils down to this principle: people who feel they are above the law also often feel they are above the rules of common courtesy and decency. Whereas, decent, polite folks feel bad about asking anyone to follow the rules. It's the same as dealing with rude hikers with dogs. Easier just to "deal with" the rudeness of cretins than to make matters worse.
Rain:sunMan
.
kayak karl
05-30-2010, 10:34
Excellent question!!! I think the answer boils down to this principle: people who feel they are above the law also often feel they are above the rules of common courtesy and decency. Whereas, decent, polite folks feel bad about asking anyone to follow the rules. It's the same as dealing with rude hikers with dogs. Easier just to "deal with" the rudeness of cretins than to make matters worse.
Rain:sunMan
.
got to agree Rainman, why make waves. i'm out there trying to enjoy myself. the farther i am from ANYONE the better. :)
earlyriser26
05-30-2010, 21:10
I have hiked the smokies 7 times and have never seen a ranger. Most of the time I have stayed in the shelters (which I hate doing), but I always carry a tent. Even with permits the shelters are often full. People don't get permits or go off schedule. Play by the rules, but I have never hiked the park where I did not have to tent at least one night. This includes one march when there was 6 feet of snow on the ground. LW might even be tempted under those conditions. Maybe not.
It's part of a quota system to limit and spread out impact of campers in the backcountry. In very high-use areas, the best thing to do is have a hardened site (a shelter is about as hardened as it gets) to limit the trampling of vegetation and packing down of the soil. It also limits how many people are supposed to be spending the night in the area to, for instance, 20, if that's what the shelter will hold.I believe this is the main reason but I was also thinking that the bear population possibly could be a factor also; as I understand it some of the shelters having fencing to ward off the bears, so I was considering this as an additional possibility also.
SGT Rock
05-31-2010, 19:54
I believe this is the main reason but I was also thinking that the bear population possibly could be a factor also; as I understand it some of the shelters having fencing to ward off the bears, so I was considering this as an additional possibility also.
They have been removing the cages over the last few years. I think Davenport Gap Shelter is the only one left on the AT with a cage and Laurel Gap Shelter on the BMT are the only ones left with a cage.
Anyone frequent the trail in late June? Should I expect to have overcrowded shelters?
SGT Rock
06-04-2010, 07:10
I doubt it, but it is possible during the weekends.
If the shelters are full,,,and I have a permit, for me and my GF, would we get into trouble for pitching a tent at the shelter?
SGT Rock
07-31-2010, 07:01
Only if a ranger showed up.
sidebackside
07-31-2010, 09:27
Only if a ranger showed up.
SGT's right, only if a ranger showed up. I saw a post earlier in the thread by someone who said they had never seen a ranger in the Smokies. I myself, have seen several of them show up at shelters to check permits. I would say it's a "hit or miss" kinda thing. Probably, more of a miss.
sidebackside
07-31-2010, 09:32
If the shelters are full,,,and I have a permit, for me and my GF, would we get into trouble for pitching a tent at the shelter?
Got to thinking...if you had a permit...and the shelters were full....then more than likely someone would be there that's not suppose to be.
max patch
07-31-2010, 10:57
If the shelters are full,,,and I have a permit, for me and my GF, would we get into trouble for pitching a tent at the shelter?
If the shelter is full -- then someone is there without a permit -- then no problems for you if you tent within sight of the shelter. Don't hike a few miles away and use "shelter full" as your excuse.
Rangers are few and far between, however, if they catch someone camping/sheltering without the proper permit they are subject to a fine. I've seen it happen.
SGT Rock
07-31-2010, 15:11
They are right. The shelter system is designed to prevent this from happening. But it still does sometimes - especially in thru-hiker season. The official answer is you should get your spots and one (or two in your case) of the the thru-hikers should leave the shelter. In my experience it is better for group harmony to just set up outside the shelter instead of playing "Survivor" to see who leaves the island.
Got checked a few years ago on Eagle Creek at #90. He snuck in by boat and had a partner. There was a HUGE group of college kids renegade camping with dogs on the edge of the creek. Well he checked my fishing license, backcountrypermit, my trout I had caught. Then he went to the college camp. Well need less to say, they were written numerous citations, and escorted from the campsite. My only wish was that he should have locked a few of them up for their disrespect to the wilderness and trashing the campsite. But he nailed them with tickets.
I wound up at Mollies early and pushed in Spence Field with no issues. They are trying to keep track of people in the park and minimize impact. The shelters are generaly well kept. Left a couple of beverages in the spring at 113 under big boulder downstream of spring, might still be there. Wouldn't recommend going without some form of shelter Just In Case. Tarptents are only about 1 pound and not too crazy expensive.