View Full Version : Technical questions on pots/pans
El Toro '94
07-13-2009, 15:40
This for all you M.E./matallurgist types, or anyone else that wants to chime in.
I've been doing a little research on alky stoves, narrowing my choices, when I came across the brasslite web page. The manufacturer says that he chose brass over aluminum and titanium because it was the best choice when it came to the combo of durability/weight/thermal conductivity/cost, i.e. aluminum has the best thermal conductivity and least expensive, but isn't as durable as titanium or brass, titanium is the lightest and strongest, but is very poor in thermal conductivity, as well as being expensive and difficult to machine.
Sorry about long prologue, but my questions are
Why are pots/pans made out of titanium if the thermal conductivity is so low?
Is it just about the weight? Most backpacking aluminum pots I've seen are comparable in weight +/- a couple of ounces. Wouldn't the better thermal conductivity of aluminum more than make up for the weight in terms of faster cook times, and therefore less fuel needed to carry?
Or is it some other factor, like style/good marketing?
It just seems titanium loses the race when it comes to thermal performance vs weight, as well as being hideously expensive.
El Toro
Most will replay according to how they feel about this rather than reporting side by side tests...
This comes up every so often and the majority will get it wrong.
This is the comment from Tony Beasley at BPL :
My testing on Titanium vs Aluminum vs Stainless steel pots has shown that Titanium is the best performer followed by Stainless steel and Aluminum the worst but basically there very little difference between the three.
My thoughts are that there is a bit more into pot efficiency than material conductivity and thickness as thermal conductivity is usually negated by the thinness of backpacking pot materials, things like emissivity of the pot material is also an important factor on pot performance.
But the most important factor on pot performance is how high the flame setting your stove burner is set too.
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=13180 (http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=13180)
Tony is a research scientist with the Australian Government , his hobby (apart from bushwalking) is making gas stoves.
See a picture of part of his home lab.
BTW, I have done side by side test with pots of similar width, and yes there is very little difference but Ti (my pots..) was a bit faster.
As far as cost/performance, you decide. The main reason I use Titanium is because is lighter and is very dent resistant. But I only boil water.
Franco
http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e389/Francophoto/Tonyslab.jpg
The manufacturer says that he chose brass over aluminum and titanium because it was the best choice when it came to the combo of durability/weight/thermal conductivity/cost, i.e. aluminum has the best thermal conductivity and least expensive, but isn't as durable as titanium or brass, titanium i.
Sorry I can't be of help on the tech aspects, but, I've been using the same surplus alumnium canteen cup for a pot and an ancient little aluminum fry pan at least three decades. How durable do you figure a pot and pan has to be? As a disclaimer, I don't always take the pan with me and it is a bit banged up, but it still works just fine.
El Toro '94
07-13-2009, 17:16
Thanx for the link. Didn't occur to me that pot geometry was a much bigger influence than the materials used to make he pot. Now if I can just figure out a way to make my stand and windscreen the same piece of equipment without snuffing my stove, I'll be good to go. Thinking caldera cone, but I don't want to buy an extra pot just to get the stove and windscreen/potstand.
There is a thread about making a "Caldera Cone" in the homemade gear forum.
Franco
The Weasel
07-13-2009, 19:13
Anent titanium: It is as light and strong as aluminum, but does not have some of the health issues that aluminum carries. There are concerns - not fully established, but nevertheless legitimate ones - that some foods cooked in aluminum pots can form aluminum salts which are associated with Alzheimer Syndrome and some motor coordination problems. Teflon coatings have some concerns, as well. Titanium is fairly nonstick, light, and decent conductivity (since backpacking pots made of it are fairly thin). Some of use it for these reasons, despite the cost.
TW
Lone Wolf
07-13-2009, 20:05
This for all you M.E./matallurgist types, or anyone else that wants to chime in.
I've been doing a little research on alky stoves, narrowing my choices, when I came across the brasslite web page. The manufacturer says that he chose brass over aluminum and titanium because it was the best choice when it came to the combo of durability/weight/thermal conductivity/cost, i.e. aluminum has the best thermal conductivity and least expensive, but isn't as durable as titanium or brass, titanium is the lightest and strongest, but is very poor in thermal conductivity, as well as being expensive and difficult to machine.
Sorry about long prologue, but my questions are
Why are pots/pans made out of titanium if the thermal conductivity is so low?
Is it just about the weight? Most backpacking aluminum pots I've seen are comparable in weight +/- a couple of ounces. Wouldn't the better thermal conductivity of aluminum more than make up for the weight in terms of faster cook times, and therefore less fuel needed to carry?
Or is it some other factor, like style/good marketing?
It just seems titanium loses the race when it comes to thermal performance vs weight, as well as being hideously expensive.
weight is what it's about
saimyoji
07-13-2009, 20:28
weight is what it's about
and Ti just sounds cooler....:cool:
Lone Wolf
07-13-2009, 20:31
and Ti just sounds cooler....:cool:
WAY overpriced though. i've got the same stainless steel pot i bought 23 years ago
saimyoji
07-13-2009, 20:37
WAY overpriced though. i've got the same stainless steel pot i bought 23 years ago
price doesn't matter when you can LOOK COOL. :rolleyes:
i don't use a pot. i just cook in my hands. :)
brooklynkayak
07-14-2009, 13:30
Anent titanium: It is as light and strong as aluminum, but does not have some of the health issues that aluminum carries. There are concerns - not fully established, but nevertheless legitimate ones - that some foods cooked in aluminum pots can form aluminum salts which are associated with Alzheimer Syndrome and some motor coordination problems. Teflon coatings have some concerns, as well. Titanium is fairly nonstick, light, and decent conductivity (since backpacking pots made of it are fairly thin). Some of use it for these reasons, despite the cost.
Titanium is much stronger than aluminum, much less prone to oxidation and doesn't add a metallic taste to acidic foods.
I think it has been thoroughly proven that aluminum doe NOT contribute to Alzheimer disease in any way, neither does stainless steel nor titanium. SO that should not figure into your decision.
I prefer not to have a teflon coating on my pots and pans because it just gets destroyed by my usually scrubbing methods. Titanium would be my first choice with stainless steel close behind.
One thing to consider; I have two pots of similar dimension, 1 made out of stainless steel cost me $5, the other Titanium $50.
Is it worth the extra few ounces to use titanium?