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View Full Version : Ridgerunner recuperating from snake bite



Hoop Time
07-16-2009, 21:51
Don't recall seeing anything here about it, but if I am posting old news, my apologies. Was at Scott Farm this afternoon working on a story and ran into ridgerunner by the name of Johnny (a 2008 through hiker, forgot to ask his trail name) who is working in New Jersey this summer.

He is staying at the Scott Farm recuperating from being bit by a rattlesnake around the 4th of July. He was first taken to Lehigh Valley Hospital in Allentown, then later transferred to Harrisburg Hospital, which apparently has a top notch poison treatment center (I live here and had no idea, but for those who are local, I did doublecheck to make sure he did not mean Hershey). He has been released and undergoing outpatient treatment. He hopes to return to the trail next week.

Nasty Dog Virus
07-16-2009, 23:14
Harrisburg Hospital, which apparently has a top notch poison treatment center (I live here and had no idea, but for those who are local, I did doublecheck to make sure he did not mean Hershey).

I had no idea. This is useful info I hope I never have to use :) thx

Tipi Walter
07-17-2009, 09:42
As I always say, keep your eyeballs open and your butt cheeks clenched.

Pedaling Fool
07-17-2009, 10:07
On two separate occasions I came within inches of stepping on a rattler. I've always heard that they'll give you plenty of warning, but that's complete BS (in my case).

When they're sunning themselves they go into "sleep mode" (for lack of a better term) and they never know you're approaching them. Both times they started rattling after I had already passed them. After looking back I realized I walked right over him.

pyroman53
07-17-2009, 10:26
Some people discuss the theory that evolution favors those rattlers that don't sound a warning, thereby letting most predators walk on by. In the case of humans, the propensity for many people to want to kill a snake they see, (so others don't get bitten or whatever misguided sentiment), would favor a longer reproductive life if the snake just kept quiet and let you walk on. Thus, encouraging this trait in their offspring, if the trait is inherited.

Pedaling Fool
07-17-2009, 10:33
Some people discuss the theory that evolution favors those rattlers that don't sound a warning, thereby letting most predators walk on by. In the case of humans, the propensity for many people to want to kill a snake they see, (so others don't get bitten or whatever misguided sentiment), would favor a longer reproductive life if the snake just kept quiet and let you walk on. Thus, encouraging this trait in their offspring, if the trait is inherited.
I've never heard that (not saying it's wrong), but the conventional wisdom (not saying it's right) is that the warn anyone coming too close. As for them in a "sleep mode" that is just my personal theory, base on almost no observation, other than almost stepping on them.

As for people killing them out of fear, they have no business out in the "wilderness". I don't get those people.

Tipi Walter
07-17-2009, 10:39
Nowadays it's mostly illegal to kill rattlesnakes in the wilderness areas I backpack, but it's boggling how many people kill or used to kill rattlers and copperheads along creeks and trails. Just read Owen Allen's 1960 AT thruhike chapter in the book Hiking The Appalachian Trail and the amount of rattlesnakes he killed. Or check out how many locals of the southern appalachians used to go out and kill hundreds of the things during "purges". My theory is simple, a sort of karmic payback: You kill them, they kill you. Real simple.

The easiest way of avoiding rattlesnake bites is to keep your eyes focused on the trail in front of you. A snake off to the side will not be a problem, and you'll be gone by the time it coils. A snake in the trail is a problem, and if stepped on, well, good luck. Keep your eyeballs open and your bunghole closed is all I can say.

Alligator
07-17-2009, 10:42
What I've heard people say is that the snake will warn you before attempting to bite you. You'd want to look at cases where a bite was attempted then figure out how many times it rattled. I think the idea is that if you are close and the snake is threatened it will rattle first before biting. Stepping right on it though I'd say all warnings are off:p.

In both your cases John the snake didn't try to bite you correct?

leeki pole
07-17-2009, 10:48
Like my granddaddy taught me, never step over a log in the trail, but always on top of it. You never know what's on the other side.

Pages
07-17-2009, 11:17
also, from what i've read, not all bites actually inject venom. supposedly, venom is actually injected only in one out of four bites. still not good enough odds for me to want to be bitten. with my luck, i'd be the "one."

TV

joec
07-17-2009, 11:21
I sat on a log last year taking care of a blister, got water, put my pack back on, took about 5 steps and looked down and saw a large Timber Rattler sunning himself just inches beside the trail. All the noice I made and he did not wake up.

Pedaling Fool
07-17-2009, 11:30
...In both your cases John the snake didn't try to bite you correct?
As far as I know, no. The basic scenario: I was on a narrow path with grass on either side, walking in a daze all of a sudden I hear a rattle from behind me, I look back and there's a rattlesnake right off the trail, in the first case he was right on the edge where the grass meets the trail-edge, so I could have easily stepped on him (I didn't, but I can only imagine how close I came). That's why I get the impression that he was sleeping and I simply awoke him, possibly brushing him, as passed by. I seriously doubt either one of them had the time to strike at me.

You never know what you pass as you're walking in that daze. There was another time under almost the exact same circumstances I was walking along when all of a sudden I heard something scramble directly off to my left. I look into the bush and there's a fawn, not more than 10 feet from me, I'm sure I must of almost stepped on him. He must have been staying still so I wouldn't see him, but I think I got so close that he lost his nerve at the last minute and took off.

Alligator
07-17-2009, 12:00
I see what you are saying John. The lack of rattle is not that they weren't going to bite but that they were sleeping. But even then, it sounds like one gave warning when threatened, one you consider may have been asleep. Hard to say with just a few cases.

The only one I ever knew was there rattled at me because I almost stepped on it. It was crossing the trail though. It was dusk and I didn't see it initially. It was in NJ as well.

I'd be interested to know what the circumstances were for the ridgerunner.

Pedaling Fool
07-17-2009, 12:07
... But even then, it sounds like one gave warning when threatened, one you consider may have been asleep. Hard to say with just a few cases...
Oh, I'm sure he was warning me, the problem is he didn't forewarn me:D

Hikerhead
07-17-2009, 12:20
I sat on a log last year taking care of a blister, got water, put my pack back on, took about 5 steps and looked down and saw a large Timber Rattler sunning himself just inches beside the trail. All the noice I made and he did not wake up.

They can't hear.

CowHead
07-17-2009, 12:47
Nowadays it's mostly illegal to kill rattlesnakes in the wilderness areas I backpack, but it's boggling how many people kill or used to kill rattlers and copperheads along creeks and trails. Just read Owen Allen's 1960 AT thruhike chapter in the book Hiking The Appalachian Trail and the amount of rattlesnakes he killed. Or check out how many locals of the southern appalachians used to go out and kill hundreds of the things during "purges". My theory is simple, a sort of karmic payback: You kill them, they kill you. Real simple.

The easiest way of avoiding rattlesnake bites is to keep your eyes focused on the trail in front of you. A snake off to the side will not be a problem, and you'll be gone by the time it coils. A snake in the trail is a problem, and if stepped on, well, good luck. Keep your eyeballs open and your bunghole closed is all I can say.

Yes but they taste like chicken

Reid
07-17-2009, 13:28
I've always heard that alot of snakes will "freeze" when they sense danger. I almost stepped on a rattler myself one time and it sure wasn't rattling when I came by it.

Reid
07-17-2009, 13:30
Then again not all rattle snakes have rattlers for different reasons.

Blissful
07-17-2009, 14:41
Glad the guy is okay. Wow

medicjimr
07-17-2009, 15:08
Well i was advised of an area I frequent near my hunting camp , That the locals that catch rattle snakes actually remove the rattle from them and then release them I personally have not witnessed that or know if that is possible without fatally injuring the snake or if they are able to grow a rattle back.

pyroman53
07-17-2009, 16:26
I'm not sayin its true that evolution is involved, but here's one discussion I found on-line on the subject

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/07/22/MNL169447.DTL

Previously, I just heard a discussion from some biologists at the office

Pedaling Fool
07-17-2009, 16:51
I'm not sayin its true that evolution is involved, but here's one discussion I found on-line on the subject

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2001/07/22/MNL169447.DTL

Previously, I just heard a discussion from some biologists at the office
Interesting article. I had no idea that rattlers in the U.S. bite ~8,000 people per year.

Lugnut
07-17-2009, 17:02
Interesting article. I had no idea that rattlers in the U.S. bite ~8,000 people per year.
It was all venomous snakes, not just rattlesnakes. Still a lot more than I would have guessed.

Pedaling Fool
07-18-2009, 10:08
It was all venomous snakes, not just rattlesnakes. Still a lot more than I would have guessed.
You're right, I did misread. It still sounds like a big number, that's ~20-22 people per day being bitten by a venomous snake.

Lugnut
07-18-2009, 12:05
I think their figures are wrong. :-?

TIDE-HSV
07-18-2009, 12:17
To add one more non-rattling tale, I saw one back in the 70s at the old CCC camp at the bottom of the Forney Creek trail in the GSMNP. It was in some of the old galvanized sheet metal left over from the CCC and as big as my forearm and was coiled. I was so startled that I exclaimed aloud "You didn't rattle." I ran to get my daughter to look at it, but it was gone when we got there...

Pedaling Fool
07-18-2009, 12:20
Yeah, I don't know, but this seems to support http://www.umm.edu/non_trauma/snake.htm I guess there's a lot of drunks playing with snakes:D I wonder how many are from pets?

This also supports it http://www.emedicinehealth.com/snakebite/article_em.htm I would have never guessed at any of those numbers.

rootball
07-18-2009, 19:06
My brothers dog jumped over this snake before it started rattling. He said it looked like the dog jumped over a cairn in the middle of the trail - and then he heard that good ole gut twisiting sound. According to him the video was shaking because he was shaking.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hootyhoo123#play/all/uploads-all/0/O8nmGXMdtpA

gregp
07-18-2009, 20:17
On two separate occasions I came within inches of stepping on a rattler. I've always heard that they'll give you plenty of warning, but that's complete BS (in my case).

When they're sunning themselves they go into "sleep mode" (for lack of a better term) and they never know you're approaching them. Both times they started rattling after I had already passed them. After looking back I realized I walked right over him.

This was exactly my experience. Walking down the trail I heard the distinct sound of a rattler but it was well behind me. I looked around my feet and then back down the trail. I didn't see a thing. This was in a deep forested part where they wouldn't have been sunning themselves. Just a close encounter with a critter that let me know he was there.

True story.

johnnybgood
07-18-2009, 20:45
You're right, I did misread. It still sounds like a big number, that's ~20-22 people per day being bitten by a venomous snake.
My wife was one of those statistics in 2003.

Erin
07-18-2009, 22:35
I had neve seen sleep mode unitl last week. I was out in the sticks and we came upon a four foot rat snake immobilized in the sun on a gravel road between cornfields. I got out to move it off the road. I actually thought it had been run over as it was so non repsonsive. The second time I touched it, it went beserk. I did not get tagged but it was close. No big deal, but I think my boss in his suit about soiled himself.

emerald
07-19-2009, 01:21
I'm glad we have members able to convey concepts such Erin did in her last sentence without prompting stars to be inserted in them. It's good to be reminded from time to time it's indeed possible.:welcome

Manwich
07-19-2009, 05:59
Where'd it bite him? His hand no doubt.

4Bears
07-19-2009, 18:16
A snake may or may not rattle before it strikes, they can rattle as a warning when disturbed or choose to just crawl away, one can only guess what their mood might be. They get their rattles from shedding their skin (not age as often thought) and they break the rattles off frequently so removing the rattles should not hurt the snake, however the remover could be, takes a bigger set than I have. I have stepped over garter and black snakes snoozing on a trail many times and find out my partner did the same minutes before or after. Yes "dry" bites happen frequently the vennom is a valuable comodity and needed to kill food.

Dr O
07-19-2009, 18:37
They can't hear.

Sure they can- they don't have visible ears, but the internal structures are all present underneath their skin.

Ol Mole
07-19-2009, 19:28
Rattlers, like copperheads will strike without warning. Sometimes rattlers warn, sometimes not.

YoungMoose
07-19-2009, 19:32
As I always say, keep your eyeballs open and your butt cheeks clenched.lol thats a great motto

fredmugs
07-19-2009, 21:48
My brothers dog jumped over this snake before it started rattling. He said it looked like the dog jumped over a cairn in the middle of the trail - and then he heard that good ole gut twisiting sound. According to him the video was shaking because he was shaking.

http://www.youtube.com/user/hootyhoo123#play/all/uploads-all/0/O8nmGXMdtpA

I've seen two timber rattlers on the trail. The first one in PA made more of a buzzing sound than the rattle sound you hear in this video. I had stopped to take a break and as soon as I put my pack on I heard the buzzing but never saw the snake. I heard the buzzing again but kept walking. Then the rattler when across the trail right behind me where I had took my break. I seem to recall that the buzzing sound is a "Hey - here I am" warning and the rattle sound is "I'm pissed go away."

The second time was on the Mar Hau trail. It was laying stretched out right on the trail. I couldn't easily get around it so I tried to roll a few rocks along the ground to see if it would move but nothing happened. I ended up walking up into some trees and gave it a wide berth. Once I got past and back on the trail I turned around and the snake turned it's head towards me and that was it. Of course I didn't have my camera.

Wilson
07-19-2009, 22:01
Where'd it bite him? His hand no doubt.
Still ain't said...the couple bad bites I've seen have been in the forearm. One poor fella looked Popeye.

sasquatch2014
07-19-2009, 22:16
I had been hearing about snakes near the Telephone Pioneer Shelter here in NY but in three years had never seen one other than the occasional gardner snake until about a month ago. I talked with one local who said a guy a number of years back thought he was doing the world a favor and killed off a bunch of rattlers and copperheads up near Cat rocks.

I had read that some thru hikers this year saw a small, like 5" long rattler near the top of the rocks. Said it was the most aggressive snake they had met so far on the trail. I set out on Fathers day with the sole intention of bushwacking and looking for snakes. I didn't have the dog with me so it was a good time to do so. 10 min from leaving the trail and following a rocky ridge up a bit I found the one and only snake of the trip a 2' long copperhead. It was a real treat to see this snake in the wild. I watched it for a bit and noticed how well it blended in to the leaves and very closely watched my step the rest of the day.

I hope we have more rattlers than copperheads in the area the copperhead is just too stealthy for my liking. I want something that at least may warn me.

medicjimr
07-20-2009, 00:31
saw a black phased timber ratler last month along trail in central pa it was coiled up asleep nevr rattled or let it tounge out, We looked to make sure he was it and gave it a wide birth and moved on.

Pedaling Fool
07-20-2009, 08:36
...I seem to recall that the buzzing sound is a "Hey - here I am" warning and the rattle sound is "I'm pissed go away."
....
I've heard a buzzing sound once and after looking around I found a black snake rattling his tail against the brush. Here's a pic

Plodderman
07-20-2009, 09:38
I have heard them in the distance before but I have also walked right up on them and no warning given.

Hope the Ridgerunner is okay.

Lilred
07-20-2009, 12:28
I think their figures are wrong. :-?

Maybe not. Don't forget about that religious sect that does snake handling. Wonder how many of those 8000 bites come from them?

Lugnut
07-20-2009, 14:23
According to a documentary I saw very few of the religious snake handlers are bitten. Maybe they are trained snakes. :-?
I live in southern Ohio and we have some poisonous snakes around here. I know of only two incidents. Both copperheads. One moderate injury and one, an elderly lady, death. I know there are areas crawling with snakes but there are some places where there are no venomous snakes at all. I suppose the reports are correct, it just seems high considering you never hear about thousands being bitten by snakes.

CowHead
07-20-2009, 14:31
they, I repeat they, do not taste like chicken

WILLIAM HAYES
07-20-2009, 21:27
i grew up in the south hunting and fishing i was always in the woods growing up and have seen many rattle snakes , copperheads and water mocassins never been bitten but had any number of close calls -not all rattle snakes will rattle sometimes they appear to be asleep but in fact they are stretched out digesting their prey which takes energy after they have eaten they are lethargic and not likely to move out of your way or rattle .

Erin
07-20-2009, 23:18
They do taste a little like chicken. Ok, here is the deal. At summer camp, one of our horses stepped on a canebrake timber's head. Lucky for the horse. Anyway, I wanted the skin. We girl camp counselors were oh, 16 and it was in the 70's so we did the skin it and eat it bit. It was not bad. The skinning part was interesting. I called my brother on the one phone and got the tutorial.OK,now pull the poop shute out in its membrane and discard..... I kept the skin until 15 years ago, with the rattle, and then gave it to someone who wanted to mount it. I had put way too much salt on it and it was well preserved even 20 years later.

Unclegorb
07-24-2009, 17:34
It's funny coming across this post...because I just met the ridgerunner (Hungarian = trailname) not 20minutes ago. He came into the Doyle Hotel here in duncannon and was showing me pictures of the aftermath (not pretty, his foot was about 4x bigger than normal and black and green in color). I'm thru-hiking this year and have had some close calls with rattlers but, after seeing those photos i was glad they were just "close calls".

happy trails...