View Full Version : Wingfoot
Pacific Tortuga
07-19-2009, 13:51
I just saw 3 'Wingnut' sighn's driving home from Sunday breakfast. All though I got along with him, I know many of you fondly called him by that name.
Just wondered if any one knew what he was up too ?
Like him or not, he was a strong advocate for Trail protection and its integrity (according to his view's).
Wolf - 23000
07-19-2009, 14:11
He has gotten away from the trail community and continous to take care of his parents - I believe in Georgia. I respect what WF did and many of the same people who bad mouth him gave little back to the trail as he did.
His book, The AT Handbook. He might have made a few bucks on the deal but considering the number of hours he put in, he didn't do it for the money. He did it for the love of the trail. I hope people can respect that.
Wolf
He also did a great service to the trail community by finding Bob "501" McCaw who continues to improve the Thru Hikers Handbook.
superman
07-19-2009, 14:27
"If thru-hiking isn't the most important thing in your life at the time
you are doing it, then stop doing it and go do what is." --Wingfoot
I just saw 3 'Wingnut' sighn's driving home from Sunday breakfast. All though I got along with him, I know many of you fondly called him by that name.
Just wondered if any one knew what he was up too ?
Like him or not, he was a strong advocate for Trail protection and its integrity (according to his view's).
Many had questions w/ his personal integrity.:confused:
Many wonder if it wasn't the accolades that truly motivated him. There have been many editors of the different guides over the years- all more humble.:cool:
Many consider him close minded, which is kinda ironic when you think about it.:-?
Some didn't appreciate his behavior when he lived near the trail.:eek:
I, for one, am happy he moved on and has taken up a more worthy goal.:)
Lone Wolf
07-19-2009, 14:47
Many had questions w/ his personal integrity.:confused:
Many wonder if it wasn't the accolades that truly motivated him. There have been many editors of the different guides over the years- all more humble.:cool:
Many consider him close minded, which is kinda ironic when you think about it.:-?
Some didn't appreciate his behavior when he lived near the trail.:eek:
I, for one, am happy he moved on and has taken up a more worthy goal.:)
i agree. he was just another hiker that took over the Philosophers Guide.
He also did a great service to the trail community by finding Bob "501" McCaw who continues to improve the Thru Hikers Handbook.
Great service? Ask the people who used his site to keep their journals - Wingfoot deleted them. Ask the people who tried the new forums - 7sisters deletes everything he doesn't agree with, just like Wingfoot. Sure Bob has made improvements, but much remains the same.
superman
07-19-2009, 17:38
Great service? Ask the people who used his site to keep their journals - Wingfoot deleted them. Ask the people who tried the new forums - 7sisters deletes everything he doesn't agree with, just like Wingfoot. Sure Bob has made improvements, but much remains the same.
My journal was deleted.:mad:
SawnieRobertson
07-19-2009, 20:50
My journal was deleted.:mad:
Were you able to recover it? Kahley found mine, forwarded it, and, therefore, made it possible for me to put it up on TJ. It doesn't have those great notes of encouragement, etc., though. Not the same.--Kinnickinic
superman
07-19-2009, 21:49
Were you able to recover it? Kahley found mine, forwarded it, and, therefore, made it possible for me to put it up on TJ. It doesn't have those great notes of encouragement, etc., though. Not the same.--Kinnickinic
No, mine was lost completely. It wasn't a work of art. Mostly I said I hiked up and I hiked down and Winter is asleep and I will be soon. People liked my journal simply because it was brief. I didn't know it at the time but every time my journal was posted my ex had to copy it and drive it down to her mother's house in CT. My ex-mother-in-law and I had plotted and planned how to hike the AT when I came home from the service the first time. Many years latter my ex-mother-in-law was diagnosed with cancer and she sent me the article that we'd read about a guy who hiked the AT in 68. My sons were grown and I found that I had the time and the money to hike the AT, so I did. She vicariously hiked it with me through my journal. If I'd known that she was following my hike I would have tried to write a better journal. She died a short time after I summated.
My journal was deleted.:mad:
I'm guessing that you had a copy of it on your hard drive???
Panzer
I'm guessing that you had a copy of it on your hard drive???
PanzerA friend of mine didn't. He kows it is silly in reptrospect, but at the time, Wingfoot said put it up here and I'll keep it for you. Wingfoot's right o delete all the journals, of course - the only complaint my friend had was that it would have been nice for Wingfoot to let people know before he did it. If you know Wingfoot, though, you know that isn't his way. If he thinks he is right, nothing else matters. It is right, everything else is wrong, and the people who do wrong things don't matter. The fact that he changed his mind and moved journals from the good-for-the-AT side to the bad-for-the-AT side is irrelevant. As soon as he made the switch in his mind that journals were bad, and so were the poeple who wrote them.
I learned a lot from reading his stuff. The only complaint I ever had was when he re-issued his AT Thruhike workbook as NEW- REVISED! and it was the exact same as the old one, word for word. I emailed him aboput it, complaining, and he unloaded on me about how little he makes on them. Once I realized that he was justifying lying in order to make money by tricking people, his image was a bit tarnished for me. Still, in spite of his crooked dealings, I learned a lot about meal planning and mail drops for long distance hiking from him. Up until I read his workbook, I was a basic weekend backpacker.
superman
07-19-2009, 22:48
I'm guessing that you had a copy of it on your hard drive???
Panzer
Nope, nothing on the hard drive. I also bought his book which wasn't printed when I left to hike the AT. So I bought the data book and the companion. When I finished the AT and returned home his book was sitting on the dining room table. My girlfriend (at that time), who stole $15,000 while I hiked, couldn't remember when it arrived. Yeah, not getting Wingfoots book sent to me while I hiked was a deal breaker...I broke up with her.:rolleyes:
The Weasel
07-19-2009, 23:05
When WhiteBlaze was started in '02, one of the things we discussed early on was that this site just wasn't going to pay a lot of attention to Dan, pro or con. I've observed that understanding imperfectly, at best, but it is a good one, and one I think would be best honored today, too, by me and perhaps everyone else. Dan is gone from the trail, at least for now; let us wish him well and let the rest pass.
TW
When WhiteBlaze was started in '02, one of the things we discussed early on was that this site just wasn't going to pay a lot of attention to Dan, pro or con. I've observed that understanding imperfectly, at best, but it is a good one, and one I think would be best honored today, too, by me and perhaps everyone else. Dan is gone from the trail, at least for now; let us wish him well and let the rest pass.
TW
Or, better yet, one can learn what happens when you trust your data (journals, in this case) to a website and take appropriate action (make a copy) to avoid disaster (deletion, intentional or otherwise).
Does anyone have a simple way (other than copy and paste) to backup a journal at Trailjournals.com?
Does anyone have a simple way (other than copy and paste) to backup a journal at Trailjournals.com?
I use the old fashioned way, pen and paper. Works for me. My trail journal is copied online from that. I didn't bother with an online journal this year, but I still have it on paper.
Nope, nothing on the hard drive.
Even though it may appear that Wingfoot deleted the journals I bet he kept a backup copy of everything he deleted on his own private hard drive. Maybe he will sell you a copy of your journal:D
Panzer
ps sorry, I know its not really funny.
while we are on the subject I would like to suggest to those who have trail journals that they should keep a backup copy on a "CD". don't trust a memory stick or an old fashon disket as they are not as reliable. Also, it would not be a bad idea to print out a hard copy on paper too.
Also, if you have more that one computer, keep a second copy on that computer too.
Panzer
I also bought his book which wasn't printed when I left to hike the AT. So I bought the data book and the companion. When I finished the AT and returned home his book was sitting on the dining room table.
True story. I visited Wingfoot in Hot Springs on my NOBO hike. I too had a journal on his site. While we were talking on his porch in the evening, Dan's phone rang. It was an inquiry about the guidebook from someone who had paid for one. He told the caller, with me sitting next to him, that the book was complete and was being shipped from the publisher and was on the truck as they spoke. As he told the caller this, his knee bounced up and down nervously. I worked with a guy at Verizon whose knee would bounce the same way every time he told a lie.
My mother had ordered 2 books, and they arrived in September or October. He was obvioulsy having some cash flow problems.
I wish the guy well.
superman
07-20-2009, 13:17
Even though it may appear that Wingfoot deleted the journals I bet he kept a backup copy of everything he deleted on his own private hard drive. Maybe he will sell you a copy of your journal:D
Panzer
ps sorry, I know its not really funny.
I contacted Wingnut which included an offer to pay for a copy of my journal. After I thought about my journal it wasn't that big of a loss. I'm considering re-hiking the AT next year which would be an opportunity to write a better journal or I could not write one and save people from reading another saga of "I hiked up and I hiked down.":)
I contacted Wingnut which included an offer to pay for a copy of my journal. After I thought about my journal it wasn't that big of a loss. I'm considering re-hiking the AT next year which would be an opportunity to write a better journal or I could not write one and save people from reading another saga of "I hiked up and I hiked down.":)
The night before he deleted my journal, I spent hours (at work) editing it. My transcriber (Mom) made a hard copy, which I used to repost the sucker on Trailjournals.
superman
07-20-2009, 13:36
The night before he deleted my journal, I spent hours (at work) editing it. My transcriber (Mom) made a hard copy, which I used to repost the sucker on Trailjournals.
I love happy endings. :)
True story. As he told the caller this, his knee bounced up and down nervously.
I wish the guy well.
Same thing when you ask him about mileage claims and number of hikes.:-?
But wait, there is a WB policy about not commenting on a guy who spent his whole trail life seeking the spotlight and creating controversy?:confused: That seems cruel. :D Do we have to wait until the day after he dies before its ok?:rolleyes:
Like him or hate him, WF did bring a lot of information to hikers who were searching for it. WB has replaced Trailplace as the "be all end all" of AT sites, but many of us - myself included - enjoyed our time at TP back when it was a viable source of information.
superman
07-20-2009, 15:50
Like him or hate him, WF did bring a lot of information to hikers who were searching for it. WB has replaced Trailplace as the "be all end all" of AT sites, but many of us - myself included - enjoyed our time at TP back when it was a viable source of information.
It's supposed to be healthy to vent.:)
I got some good information and some bad information from TP. I knew even less about computers at that time and someone on TP cautioned to not rely on the security of your computer to handle finances on line. So I gave my girlfriend of many years access to my money to pay my bills while I was gone. No, I didn't put any legal limits on her access. So as I hiked she stole $15,000 from me. Oh yes, it was a stupid thing to do in hind sight. When I confronted her with what she'd done she simply said "I didn't think You'd notice." Apparently I am very brain dead but not that damn brain dead.
I didn't like the way Wingnut changed into a profiteer. I remember on his website he was trying to get outrageous prices for a bunch of used items he owned. There are some examples at the link below. $500 for "the baseball cap given to Wingfoot by the folks at Amicalola Falls State Park"??? Get serious Wingnut! Gee, I wonder why none of these items ever sold!
http://friends.backcountry.net/pipermail/at-l/2007-August/006472.html
Jack Tarlin
07-20-2009, 17:07
Wow, lots of dead horse-beating going on today.
What's forgotten in all this is that whatever his real or imagined faults, Dan Bruce probably helped more people plan and prepare for an Appalachian Trail thru-hike than any other individual. His work and efforts did more to help them before and during their hikes than anyone I can think of, certainly more than anyone here at Whiteblaze.
There are some folks here who may wish to take a moment and think about this.
Of course if people would rather dump on a guy who left the Trail community some years ago to move onto other things with his life, well that's up to them.
Hmmmm. Moving onto other things and getting on with one's life.
Something for some folks to think about, maybe.
Anyway, thanx and best wishes, Dan, wherever you find yourself today. You sure did OK by me.
superman
07-20-2009, 17:46
I didn't like the way Wingnut changed into a profiteer. I remember on his website he was trying to get outrageous prices for a bunch of used items he owned. There are some examples at the link below. $500 for "the baseball cap given to Wingfoot by the folks at Amicalola Falls State Park"??? Get serious Wingnut! Gee, I wonder why none of these items ever sold!
http://friends.backcountry.net/pipermail/at-l/2007-August/006472.html
You're going to feel silly when you see them in the Smithsonian.:D
He had the right to dump journals, he had the right to try to get as much as he could for his stuff and if I took and acted on advise that one of the posting members made that was my choice. I stopped by his house and had a real nice talk with him. I mention my money lose from time to time as a heads up to control your money and stuff while your gone for a walk.
Wow, lots of dead horse-beating going on today.
What's forgotten in all this is that whatever his real or imagined faults, Dan Bruce probably helped more people plan and prepare for an Appalachian Trail thru-hike than any other individual. His work and efforts did more to help them before and during their hikes than anyone I can think of, certainly more than anyone here at Whiteblaze.
There are some folks here who may wish to take a moment and think about this.
Of course if people would rather dump on a guy who left the Trail community some years ago to move onto other things with his life, well that's up to them.
Hmmmm. Moving onto other things and getting on with one's life.
Something for some folks to think about, maybe.
Anyway, thanx and best wishes, Dan, wherever you find yourself today. You sure did OK by me.
Gee Jack, :D
A person should only be judged by his positive contributions? Why doesn't that hold true for your dead house -WD? He has helped many as well. The person responsible for WB has probably helped more people than Dan, but if that person has more bad qualities than good we should nevermind the negative? :confused: The guy made his bed and now he has to sleep in it.:-? I speak of what I've seen with my own 2 eyes.:eek: Dan was exposed and left the trail community because of it. This would have eventully happened regardless of his parents situation IMO. I wish him well too, but am glad he's gone-no matter the sugar / salt ratio.;) A ton of sugar doesn't justify ton of salt in my book.:)
Jim Adams
07-20-2009, 21:00
Dan not only helped me and gave me advice on thru hiking he also instilled in me the attitudes of fun, caring, admiring and loving the Appalachian Trail. He has always been my biggest influence and will always be a good friend. I feel sorry that not all of you had the same experience.
geek
Lone Wolf
07-20-2009, 21:09
Dan not only helped me and gave me advice on thru hiking he also instilled in me the attitudes of fun, caring, admiring and loving the Appalachian Trail. He has always been my biggest influence and will always be a good friend. I feel sorry that not all of you had the same experience.
geek
i certainly didn't. i was walkin' the trail before the "stars" and know-it-alls like wingfoot. there were no websites. there was the Philosophers guide which was just fine for the time. WAY too much info and so-called expertise for just walkin' these days
i certainly didn't. i was walkin' the trail before the "stars" and know-it-alls like wingfoot. there were no websites. there was the Philosophers guide which was just fine for the time. WAY too much info and so-called expertise for just walkin' these days
I gotta agree. Sometimes it's too easy. I know exactly where to stay, where to eat, who to call for a ride. On the one hand, the information is great to have but sometimes I think a lot of the 'unknown' is taken away. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
Lone Wolf
07-20-2009, 21:47
sometimes I think a lot of the 'unknown' is taken away. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
bad thing. lewis and clark didn't have no stinkin' website or guide book. neither did earl
I gotta agree. Sometimes it's too easy. I know exactly where to stay, where to eat, who to call for a ride. On the one hand, the information is great to have but sometimes I think a lot of the 'unknown' is taken away. I'm not sure if that's a good thing or a bad thing.
I am very fond of the AT, but I could do without the culture and the way it is trending. IMO, Wingfoot was right in that regard. And he caught hell for saying it. The AT is a paint by numbers trail. Every sign. Every privy. Every shelter. Every everything is chronicled, photographed and discussed. Personally, I like hiking a trail with a little more mystique these days.
The most exciting things happening with the AT these days (to me) is the citizen science, and the Trail to Every Classroom program.
The Weasel
07-20-2009, 22:28
Jack is right. Let the dead horse alone.
It is now a couple of years since Dan effectively departed the trail, physically and figuratively. He did some good things, and some bad; some smart, some foolish. Some kind, some rude. He was, in all, little better than most of us, and not as bad as the rest.
But he's gone, and he's not even yesterday's news. Let us all wish him well, and move on. That is, I reiterate, exactly the policy that WhiteBlaze has had regarding Dan since our very first posts here on this site.
Keep moving, folks; the show is over.
The Weasel
Lone Wolf
07-20-2009, 22:33
warren doyle has been doing more for the AT and hikers long before and after wingfoot
If the subject is taboo then why is the thread not closed?:confused:
I doubt Dan cares what I think of him.:eek:
I just call em like I see em.:)
I said my piece and I'm done.:cool:
Jim Adams
07-20-2009, 22:47
i certainly didn't. i was walkin' the trail before the "stars" and know-it-alls like wingfoot. there were no websites. there was the Philosophers guide which was just fine for the time. WAY too much info and so-called expertise for just walkin' these days
LW,
That's not what I meant by help. The Philosopher's Guide was probably the best book ever for hiking the trail. WF wrote the books and did the town maps in order to help more hikers and if that made the hike easier then maybe it got more people interested in hiking and protecting the AT.
I hiked within a day or 2 of Dan my entire 1990 hike and spent many a lunch and alot of time in camp with him. He had an incredible sense of humor and friendliness while hiking. He taught me things about nature that I didn't know, names of flowers that I had never seen, facts and history of the trail and it's pioneers that I would never have known. He instilled in me a feeling and love for the Appalachian trail that nothing else in my life has done prior or since. He never acted as a guide or celebrity but always as a friend and fellow hiker. I have always enjoyed my time with him be it visiting, hiking or talking on the phone. He will always be my friend and a mentor and I will always respect him for that. In my dealings with him he never tried to be more "famous" or well known, he was simply obscessed with teaching everyone that he met to love the Appalachian Trail as much as he did.
I haven't gotten to talk to Dan in about 5 years and I do miss him.
I realize that not everyone had the same outcome as I did with Dan and none of us have any control over that...I'm just saying that I wish everyone else had the same contact with him that I did...his friendship was a major asset in my life.
geek
superman
07-20-2009, 22:48
I especially liked Wingfoots position on cell phones.:)
The Weasel
07-20-2009, 23:07
Nean, the topic isn't taboo. It's worse than that: It's old. So old that it's worn out. Sort of, I suspect, as Dan is worn out. Wish him well (or don't wish anything). Beyond that, not much left to say about him that hasn't been said many times before.
TW
superman
07-20-2009, 23:13
If the subject is taboo then why is the thread not closed?:confused:
I doubt Dan cares what I think of him.:eek:
I just call em like I see em.:)
I said my piece and I'm done.:cool:
How'd ya like his position on hiking sticks?:)
bad thing. lewis and clark didn't have no stinkin' website or guide book. neither did earl
One of the main reasons that lewis and clark lead their expedition was to map out the way for others to follow them. They created maps and a journal that others could use to follow them. lewis and Clark wrote the guide book.
Panzer
Jack Tarlin
07-27-2009, 11:48
In a post above (#37), Lone Wolf mentioned another well known hiker, and baldly stated that this other individual has contributed far more to the Trail than Dan Bruce.
I do not know if Wolf truly believes this, or whether he was merely trying to stir things up here, which he himself has admitted is something he enjoys doing.
But in any case, I invite him to share details that might back up his statement. The fact is, Dan Bruce for many years published a book that helped thousands and thousands of hikers plan their trips; this book was also used daily by thousands of hikers DURING their hikes. In later years, Bruce ran an extensive website that for many years was the number one source of information on the Trail for those planning an extended hike on the A.T.
If there is any other individual whose resume includes anything like this, especially as regards providing years of information thru either published works or Internet informational sites, I'd sure like to know who they are, with details.
I'm sure Wolf, with his voluminous knowledge of the Trail and its history, will be more than happy to tell us about this.
(P.S. After Bruce, I would then say that the team of folks involved with THIS website would be very deserving of mention as well, in terms of purveying useful information to prospective hikers. Also, of course, there are the good folks at the ATC, who have been performing this service for decades).
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 13:26
warren doyle has been doing more for the AT and hikers long before and after wingfoot
In a post above (#37), Lone Wolf mentioned another well known hiker, and baldly stated that this other individual has contributed far more to the Trail than Dan Bruce.
I do not know if Wolf truly believes this, or whether he was merely trying to stir things up here, which he himself has admitted is something he enjoys doing.
But in any case, I invite him to share details that might back up his statement. The fact is, Dan Bruce for many years published a book that helped thousands and thousands of hikers plan their trips; this book was also used daily by thousands of hikers DURING their hikes. In later years, Bruce ran an extensive website that for many years was the number one source of information on the Trail for those planning an extended hike on the A.T.
If there is any other individual whose resume includes anything like this, especially as regards providing years of information thru either published works or Internet informational sites, I'd sure like to know who they are, with details.
I'm sure Wolf, with his voluminous knowledge of the Trail and its history, will be more than happy to tell us about this.
(P.S. After Bruce, I would then say that the team of folks involved with THIS website would be very deserving of mention as well, in terms of purveying useful information to prospective hikers. Also, of course, there are the good folks at the ATC, who have been performing this service for decades).
ain't tryin' to stir nothin' up. warren was hiking the AT long before wingfoot and long after. wingfoot's guide wasn't original. he took over the philosophers guide. warren started ALDHA and has the Trail institute. what was wingfoot's Center for Appalachian Trail studies? nothing but a name
double d
07-27-2009, 13:44
Wingfoot has alot of knowledge regarding the AT and he shared that knowledge with those who visited his webpage. If someone went looking for a fight, Wingfoot didn't back down, but I have alot of respect for the man and if I didn't agree with some of his views, well so what, I just moved on to another topic heading. He always gave out detailed information to me on his webpage, which is much more helpful then those who post a sentence or two about "its just walkin" philosophy of the AT when any meaningful question gets asked.
max patch
07-27-2009, 13:50
Lotta people jealous of WF.
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 14:07
what pray tell, is there to be jealous of ? :-?
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 14:09
Wingfoot has alot of knowledge regarding the AT and he shared that knowledge with those who visited his webpage. If someone went looking for a fight, Wingfoot didn't back down, but I have alot of respect for the man and if I didn't agree with some of his views, well so what, I just moved on to another topic heading. He always gave out detailed information to me on his webpage, which is much more helpful then those who post a sentence or two about "its just walkin" philosophy of the AT when any meaningful question gets asked.
it really is just walkin' and lotsa folks did it before websites and such. it ain't rocket science as they say
max patch
07-27-2009, 14:25
what pray tell, is there to be jealous of ? :-?
Lot of self proclaimed experts -- usually members of hiking forums -- couldn't stand the fact that for a decade or so when the media had an A.T. related question or needed a comment as background info for a story the first call they made was to WF.
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 14:53
Lot of self proclaimed experts -- usually members of hiking forums -- couldn't stand the fact that for a decade or so when the media had an A.T. related question or needed a comment as background info for a story the first call they made was to WF.
cuz he's the only one that marketed himself. he loved attention and pats on the back. i know of no one that ever said they were jealous of wingfoot :D you must run with some head cases
I enjoyed meeting him in '98. I never heard of him befor I started the trail. I didn't even know there was a web site. All I saw was everybodys book. So when I got to HS I stopped by and said "Hi". I also figured he could help me fix my broken pack. He did much better than that. He went out to the garage and pulled out an old pack and gave it to me. [after he took his patches off].
That night we sat around and watched GI Jane and discussed walking the trail without any books or maps. He then signed a book for me so I could mail it home.
I don't know all the in and outs of the guy. I really don't care. I never looked at his site after that. [well until last year] Just wanted to say that the two days I spent with him, he seemed like an alright guy to me.
Thanks Dan
double d
07-27-2009, 16:42
it really is just walkin' and lotsa folks did it before websites and such. it ain't rocket science as they say
True Lone Wolf, but folks have alot of questions (sometimes fairly complex ones) about the AT and backpacking in general, so I think Wingfoot, TP and many others here at WB contribute to that knowledge, thats what I meant by my first statements. I certainly didn't agree with the guy on every issue, but he helped out alot of hikers (as you have as well) and I respect that.
The Weasel
07-27-2009, 17:22
it really is just walkin' and lotsa folks did it before websites and such. it ain't rocket science as they say
True Lone Wolf, but folks have alot of questions (sometimes fairly complex ones) about the AT and backpacking in general, so I think Wingfoot, TP and many others here at WB contribute to that knowledge, thats what I meant by my first statements. I certainly didn't agree with the guy on every issue, but he helped out alot of hikers (as you have as well) and I respect that.
LW is deadass right; what he left out is a lot of people think it's rocket science, and spend all their time trying to make it that way. I chose backpacking 'cause I wasn't any good at sports that required skills. All anyone really needs to know on this one is how to lift up feet and put them down and boil water. Sometimes it's nice to get more information about things, but sites like this one or TP or whatever aren't really necessary; the trail is still there and goes to the same places, with our without a lot of fancy websites, gear, cell phones or even Republican Governors.
Dan didn't do much harm, did some good, but the AT doesn't owe its existence to him nearly as much as it does a lot of others. Big deal.
Keep walking. That's all it's about.
TW
LW is deadass right; what he left out is a lot of people think it's rocket science, and spend all their time trying to make it that way. I chose backpacking 'cause I wasn't any good at sports that required skills. All anyone really needs to know on this one is how to lift up feet and put them down and boil water. Sometimes it's nice to get more information about things, but sites like this one or TP or whatever aren't really necessary; the trail is still there and goes to the same places, with our without a lot of fancy websites, gear, cell phones or even Republican Governors.
Dan didn't do much harm, did some good, but the AT doesn't owe its existence to him nearly as much as it does a lot of others. Big deal.
Keep walking. That's all it's about.
TW
Well said.
what pray tell, is there to be jealous of ? :-?
...posting more negative crap than anyone on the internet?:D
Wingfoot is one of the rare genuine heroes of the Appalachian Trail. He devoted much of his life to keeping the traiL as wild as a trail can be that is a day's drive from a majority of Americans.
His battle to keep Saddleback wild is univerally praised by PR types who observed its intelligence and skill. Wingfoot designed a program that allowed every responder to fill in a form that was then used to automatically generate a distinct personal message to key WAshington legislators and trail bureaucrats.
Unfortunately, the White Blaze bigots couldn't place the trail above their anger, and mostly refused to participate.
Despite that, the 4,000 responses that Wingfoot generated, produced the compromise that kept the top of the mountain range wild. Yes, the cost was an outrageous $4 million to American taxpayers. But that was not Wingfoot's fault. It was the fault of those who could not put aside petty differences, and see wisdom even when it was prominently displayed.
Wingfoot was not always so wise. He even kicked me off his site a couple of times. But on the key issues Wingfoot was right. He deserves praise, not condemnation.
Weary
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 21:30
saddleback is hardly wild
TJ aka Teej
07-27-2009, 21:43
Wingfoot is one of the rare genuine heroes of the Appalachian Trail.
Nonsense, Weary. And you know it.
CrumbSnatcher
07-27-2009, 21:44
anybody heard the joke about moses,jesus and wingfoot crossing the kennebec river?
wingfoot was ok of a guy to me,very helpful and positive. helped me get started hiking, talked to him on the phone a few times,sent me a few books trusting me to send the payment back, and gave me a free copy of his 98' book when i thru'd in 99' i haven't met to many people i didn't like on the trail,and if i didn't like them i would just walk away...
saimyoji
07-27-2009, 21:45
it really is just walkin' and lotsa folks did it before websites and such. it ain't rocket science as they say
BS....not just walking. not rocket science, but there is much more to spending days/weeks in the woods and you know it. the knowledge and experience and expertise you have allow you to simplify it.....but to someone totally new, its much much more than "just walking."
saddleback is hardly wild
Of course not. None of the trail is truly wild. Some of us, like wingfoot, try to keep it as wild as possible.
Damascus is a delightful town. But few of us would hike the trail if it becomes a series of Damascuses.
The Saddleback owner dreamed of covering the hillside with condos. Would that have been an improvement over the admittedly less than wilderness that existed at the time of the controversy?
ATC gave up the battle. AMC gave up the battle. Only Wingfoot -- and a few of us in MATC and in the surrounding towns -- had the courage to fight on.
Weary
Jim Adams
07-27-2009, 22:29
Wingfoot is one of the rare genuine heroes of the Appalachian Trail. He devoted much of his life to keeping the traiL as wild as a trail can be that is a day's drive from a majority of Americans.
His battle to keep Saddleback wild is univerally praised by PR types who observed its intelligence and skill. Wingfoot designed a program that allowed every responder to fill in a form that was then used to automatically generate a distinct personal message to key WAshington legislators and trail bureaucrats.
Unfortunately, the White Blaze bigots couldn't place the trail above their anger, and mostly refused to participate.
Despite that, the 4,000 responses that Wingfoot generated, produced the compromise that kept the top of the mountain range wild. Yes, the cost was an outrageous $4 million to American taxpayers. But that was not Wingfoot's fault. It was the fault of those who could not put aside petty differences, and see wisdom even when it was prominently displayed.
Wingfoot was not always so wise. He even kicked me off his site a couple of times. But on the key issues Wingfoot was right. He deserves praise, not condemnation.
Weary
GREAT post Weary!
geek
Jack Tarlin
07-27-2009, 22:32
Wow.
Weary, to my knowledge, has spent most of the last 80 years living and working in Maine, and has spent much of his time walking it's wild country, and serving as a tireless advocate for its preservation.
Lone Wolf is a transplanted Virginian by way of Rhode Island, who has maybe visited Maine briefly three times in the last ten years, and maybe not even that, but wants us to think he's an expert nonetheless on its history and backcountry.
This could get fun.
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 22:36
have some more bourbon :D
saimyoji
07-27-2009, 22:40
have some more bourbon :D
its just drinkin'. :rolleyes:
BS....not just walking. not rocket science, but there is much more to spending days/weeks in the woods and you know it. the knowledge and experience and expertise you have allow you to simplify it.....but to someone totally new, its much much more than "just walking."
Totally agree...LW just spews to stir his pot. Sad,really it is. He must own this sight,or would have been banned long ago....:rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 22:42
Totally agree...LW just spews to stir his pot. Sad,really it is. He must own this sight,or would have been banned long ago....:rolleyes:
huh? this makes no sense :-?
Of course not. None of the trail is truly wild. Some of us, like wingfoot, try to keep it as wild as possible.
Damascus is a delightful town. But few of us would hike the trail if it becomes a series of Damascuses.
The Saddleback owner dreamed of covering the hillside with condos. Would that have been an improvement over the admittedly less than wilderness that existed at the time of the controversy?
ATC gave up the battle. AMC gave up the battle. Only Wingfoot -- and a few of us in MATC and in the surrounding towns -- had the courage to fight on.
Weary
Well said,as usual LW is just mad at the world... maybe he needs a BETTER hobby than WB,look at that post count.:rolleyes: How many say anything positive?
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 22:45
Well said,as usual LW is just mad at the world... maybe he needs a BETTER hobby than WB,look at that post count.:rolleyes: How many say anything positive?
you're obsessed with me, muddy ;)
saimyoji
07-27-2009, 22:47
Totally agree...LW just spews to stir his pot. Sad,really it is. He must own this sight,or would have been banned long ago....:rolleyes:
don't think for a second that you and i are on the same page. i respect Wolf and would diss him like that. i just disagree with him on some aspects. sometimes we overlook our own expertise ad think that others don't measure up because we have a dearth of knowledge / ability that others haven't even been exposed to yet.
you should seek medical help for your rectal cranial inversion. :rolleyes:
saimyoji
07-27-2009, 22:49
don't think for a second that you and i are on the same page. i respect Wolf and wouldn't diss him like that. i just disagree with him on some aspects. sometimes we overlook our own expertise ad think that others don't measure up because we have a dearth of knowledge / ability that others haven't even been exposed to yet.
you should seek medical help for your rectal cranial inversion. :rolleyes:
..........
don't think for a second that you and i are on the same page. i respect Wolf and would diss him like that. i just disagree with him on some aspects. sometimes we overlook our own expertise ad think that others don't measure up because we have a dearth of knowledge / ability that others haven't even been exposed to yet.
you should seek medical help for your rectal cranial inversion. :rolleyes:
expertise? what would that be?:D
have some more bourbon :D
And you too.
Weary, who had one of his front teeth pulled today and is trying to get used to a $950 "temporary" replacement. I scan the obits from time to time. I tried to tell these dentist type guys that the 80s are a dangerous time for humans, that the existing tooth had a good chance of lasting as long as I might.
However, I do believe in statistics. Very few people in their 90s seem to die, compared with the number that die in their 80s. If I can last another nine years, this replacement tooth may be worthwhile.
But, Lone Wolf, a bit of bourbon is a good idea. Try some. I bought a small bottle of "cheap" New Hampshire Maker's Mark on the way back from the ATC conference in Vermont. I'm going to have some right now.
The Weasel
07-27-2009, 22:55
Geez. All this sturm und drang on WB about a guy who has long since past moved on to other things and never even admitted to visiting here. Amazing.
TW
BigFoot2002
07-27-2009, 22:55
Dearth of knowledge? Dearth of knowledge? We get exposed to that every day here.....
you're obsessed with me, muddy ;)
NO obsession at all...for the life of me I can not understand why people fall for your bully crap. I bet,behind the curtain you are actually a decent person,,,but you hide it well.;) Folks need to grow a set.:D Freaken sheep!:rolleyes:
BobTheBuilder
07-27-2009, 23:31
Back on task here people, back on task. I stand for everything politically that Wingfoot is not, but I use his book and hike the same trail he hiked. Am I a bad person?
saimyoji
07-27-2009, 23:38
WF threads will always draw out the polarized minority.
pyroman53
07-28-2009, 00:04
I bought a small bottle of "cheap" New Hampshire Maker's Mark on the way back from the ATC conference in Vermont. I'm going to have some right now.
Now that's what I'm talking about! Havin some myself right about now.
This discussion does make me think about how different things are from when we (I) started out back in the day. We didn't know what was down the trail. We just had the guidebooks, and had to search out the trail crossings to even access some parts of the trail. We relied on the few friends we had that also hked. Now, EVERYTHING is laid out there in advance. We know what the shelters look like. Which ones have mice problems. Which hostels and shuttlers provide what services. We can't head out without knowing what the springs are doing. What the bears are doing. What the menu is at the AYCE buffet. I'm as guilty as anyone and I'm not sayin its wrong, but it may not be better...just different. The joy of discovery is harder to find.
One thing rings true through it all...its just walkin, and staying watered, warm, and dry between point A and B.
The Weasel
07-28-2009, 00:56
You only know that things are like if you bother to look for all that stuff. If you want the joy of discovery, just go for a blinkin' walk. Stop blathering about whether some guy who did some nice and some dumb things was nice, dumb, both or neither. Go for a walk. The people who obsess over books and gear and food and so forth are all named Katz. The rest walk in the woods.
TW
Weary, who had one of his front teeth pulled today and is trying to get used to a $950 "temporary" replacement...
Sorry to hear about your tooth weary, hope your feeling better soon.
Panzer
Lone Wolf
07-28-2009, 05:57
And you too.
Weary, who had one of his front teeth pulled today and is trying to get used to a $950 "temporary" replacement. I scan the obits from time to time. I tried to tell these dentist type guys that the 80s are a dangerous time for humans, that the existing tooth had a good chance of lasting as long as I might.
However, I do believe in statistics. Very few people in their 90s seem to die, compared with the number that die in their 80s. If I can last another nine years, this replacement tooth may be worthwhile.
But, Lone Wolf, a bit of bourbon is a good idea. Try some. I bought a small bottle of "cheap" New Hampshire Maker's Mark on the way back from the ATC conference in Vermont. I'm going to have some right now.
moderation is good. some bourbon drinkers don't know what that is though and post accordingly
Jim Adams
07-28-2009, 07:45
moderation is good. some bourbon drinkers don't know what that is though and post accordingly
Definitely!
I take my bourbon drinking seriously and never mix JD and WB.
Whiteblaze is just when I have the time to waste.:D
geek
Jack Tarlin
07-28-2009, 12:39
Geek:
Glad you take your sippin' seriously, but I hate to break it to you that JD is technically a Tennessee Whiskey, and is not bourbon.
And, as always, it's great to see yet another post from Wolf on the joys of moderation.
Getting advice from him on drinkin' is like hiring an Englishman do your cooking.
But I'm sure he means well. :D
This discussion does make me think about how different things are from when we (I) started out back in the day. We didn't know what was down the trail. We just had the guidebooks, and had to search out the trail crossings to even access some parts of the trail. We relied on the few friends we had that also hked. Now, EVERYTHING is laid out there in advance. We know what the shelters look like. Which ones have mice problems. Which hostels and shuttlers provide what services. We can't head out without knowing what the springs are doing. What the bears are doing. What the menu is at the AYCE buffet. I'm as guilty as anyone and I'm not sayin its wrong, but it may not be better...just different. The joy of discovery is harder to find.
Until I read this post, I never once thought of it that way. But I think that you're right.
I wasn't hiking "back in the day" -- it's all recent stuff to me in that I read thousands of posts on WB before I ever set foot on the AT. But you're right -- I obsess over the minutiae and thus am only surprised when something doesn't fit, so to speak. I think that your way is better. I'm definitely not going to forget the message.
Jack Tarlin
07-28-2009, 13:20
The "joy of discovery" is great, of course, but on the other hand, there are certain advantages to the information explosion of recent years. Some of these advantages:
*Fewer surprises, i.e. there's less of a chance of arriving at a location only
to discover that a needed grocery store has closed, or that the shelter no
longer exists, etc.
*One knows the best places to send and receive mail, including lots of non-
Post Office locations.
*One is informed about new places of interest, and there are new ones every
year.
*If there are places best avoided, it's nice to know about them, too.
*One can plan time off/town trips better, which means one navigates towns
quicker. This gives the hiker more R&R time, less walking, and less chance
that he'll miss someplace important or useful. Finding a great place to stay
or eat is always fun; however, knowing the best places to stay ahead of
time is also really useful.
*In dry periods, it's REALLY important to have good info on water sources.
In short, the joy of discovering things on your own (or by accident) can be fun, and it still happens. And some people over-plan and prepare, like printing
out a spread sheet detailing, say, where they expect to be on mid-afternoon of their 134th day. But all in all, I think the info explosion on the Internet and elsewhere does more good than harm, and the proliferation of new books and Trail Guides also gives hikers more options than they used to have.
In short, tho, if I had to choose between arriving in a town on a cold miserable day only to accidentally discover a cool place to stay and eat......or
if were to arrive in another town and only then find out that the one decent restaurant or motel had long since closed, well I think I'd prefer to know about these things in advance.
On the Trail, not all "discoveries" are occasions of joy.
The best things to be discovered on the trail won't be found in a book.;)
Cannibal
07-28-2009, 14:05
I don't think he helped people hike, plan, or prepare for the AT. He did help people hike, plan, and prepare for hiking his AT, the way he felt it should be hiked. I'll give him some credit for helping the Trail itself, but only as a result of seeing or hearing himself in the spotlight. I was on his site for about 2 weeks before I realized it was like a canned sitcom, complete with "laugh now" signs. I swear I keep waiting to hear that he has opened a compound in Waco or Ruby Ridge.
Lone Wolf and Jack, of all people, provided me with what I needed for the AT. Jack's resupply article was my bible and that damn LW was always stuck in my head; "It's only walkin". Wingnut only succeeded in preaching and making me want to avoid him at all costs.
Megalomaniac, little more IMO.
The Weasel
07-28-2009, 14:56
The "joy of discovery" is great, of course, but on the other hand, there are certain advantages to the information explosion of recent years. Some of these advantages:
*Fewer surprises, i.e. there's less of a chance of arriving at a location only
to discover that a needed grocery store has closed, or that the shelter no
longer exists, etc.
*One knows the best places to send and receive mail, including lots of non-
Post Office locations.
*One is informed about new places of interest, and there are new ones every
year.
*If there are places best avoided, it's nice to know about them, too.
*One can plan time off/town trips better, which means one navigates towns
quicker. This gives the hiker more R&R time, less walking, and less chance
that he'll miss someplace important or useful. Finding a great place to stay
or eat is always fun; however, knowing the best places to stay ahead of
time is also really useful.
*In dry periods, it's REALLY important to have good info on water sources.
In short, the joy of discovering things on your own (or by accident) can be fun, and it still happens. And some people over-plan and prepare, like printing
out a spread sheet detailing, say, where they expect to be on mid-afternoon of their 134th day. But all in all, I think the info explosion on the Internet and elsewhere does more good than harm, and the proliferation of new books and Trail Guides also gives hikers more options than they used to have.
In short, tho, if I had to choose between arriving in a town on a cold miserable day only to accidentally discover a cool place to stay and eat......or
if were to arrive in another town and only then find out that the one decent restaurant or motel had long since closed, well I think I'd prefer to know about these things in advance.
On the Trail, not all "discoveries" are occasions of joy.
Jack-
Near-total disagreement here. You're making it sound like it's great to be basically a slacker: "Gosh, I done wanna go out on that trail if maybe my feet might get muddy or I might have to deal with a closed grocery or a dirty bed or something HORRIBLE like that."
That's part of the adventure, dude. I don't want weather reports, or much else other than - maybe - warnings about immediate physcial injury ("do not stand on ledge over canyon like the last guy who is now dead"). One of the best parts of my thru-start was coming to Mountain Momas with TnT in a pouring rain, getting the grodiest little trailer I've ever seen, with this hilarious piece of 12" thick foam that was as soggy as a boiled biscuit. Oh yeah, the trailer leaked. The burger wasn't that good, and the shower was cold water only that day. Never forget it.
If I want predictable and safe, I'll call up Thomas Cook and book the "Blue Hair Bus."
So guide books aren't that critical. I prefer trail shelter registers. More up to date, more honest, more zaftig. And you only get to see them if you're walking.
TW
The Weasel
07-28-2009, 14:57
The best things to be discovered on the trail won't be found in a book.;)
You said what I said, first and shorter. :clap
TW
I could say something here, actually a lot, but I don't have the time. I'll check in later... with a bag of popcorn. Carry on folks. :D
Biggest problem I had with Wingfoot (besides getting kicked off his site for agreeing with only Part of what he said) was him accepting and encouraging the role of spokesman for ALL AT hikers. He used the "Center" to add the appearance of legitimacy to his claims and imply a much broader consensus of opinion that, in fact, didn't existed. In my opinion, a dishonest maneuver designed to keep him in the spotlight.
Glad he's no longer part of the community.
Jack-
Near-total disagreement here. You're making it sound like it's great to be basically a slacker: "Gosh, I done wanna go out on that trail if maybe my feet might get muddy or I might have to deal with a closed grocery or a dirty bed or something HORRIBLE like that."
That's part of the adventure, dude. I don't want weather reports, or much else other than - maybe - warnings about immediate physcial injury ("do not stand on ledge over canyon like the last guy who is now dead"). One of the best parts of my thru-start was coming to Mountain Momas with TnT in a pouring rain, getting the grodiest little trailer I've ever seen, with this hilarious piece of 12" thick foam that was as soggy as a boiled biscuit. Oh yeah, the trailer leaked. The burger wasn't that good, and the shower was cold water only that day. Never forget it.
If I want predictable and safe, I'll call up Thomas Cook and book the "Blue Hair Bus."
So guide books aren't that critical. I prefer trail shelter registers. More up to date, more honest, more zaftig. And you only get to see them if you're walking.
TW
Let the record show that on this day I agree with Jack!
"Lord forgive me for that and the starving pigmys in New Gineau" :p
The Weasel
07-28-2009, 22:24
Lug:
We'd have fun together, you, me and Jack. He brings the Malt; you bring the maps; I'll bring nothing.:D
TW
Jim Adams
07-28-2009, 22:25
Geek:
Glad you take your sippin' seriously, but I hate to break it to you that JD is technically a Tennessee Whiskey, and is not bourbon.
And, as always, it's great to see yet another post from Wolf on the joys of moderation.
Getting advice from him on drinkin' is like hiring an Englishman do your cooking.
But I'm sure he means well. :D
Usually I drink and snort nothing but whiskey...occassionally I sip some bourbon but it's not my first choice.;)
geek
Jack-
Near-total disagreement here. You're making it sound like it's great to be basically a slacker: "Gosh, I done wanna go out on that trail if maybe my feet might get muddy or I might have to deal with a closed grocery or a dirty bed or something HORRIBLE like that."
That's part of the adventure, dude. I don't want weather reports, or much else other than - maybe - warnings about immediate physcial injury ("do not stand on ledge over canyon like the last guy who is now dead"). One of the best parts of my thru-start was coming to Mountain Momas with TnT in a pouring rain, getting the grodiest little trailer I've ever seen, with this hilarious piece of 12" thick foam that was as soggy as a boiled biscuit. Oh yeah, the trailer leaked. The burger wasn't that good, and the shower was cold water only that day. Never forget it.
If I want predictable and safe, I'll call up Thomas Cook and book the "Blue Hair Bus."
So guide books aren't that critical. I prefer trail shelter registers. More up to date, more honest, more zaftig. And you only get to see them if you're walking.
TWWell, I'll take weather reports okay, but agree with you about guide books and knowing too much. I bought the whole guide book/map set from teh ATC, but I've only used the maps. I do like to know where I am, but that is kind of a hobby with me, playing with maps and such.
As Mowgli said way back in this thread, there is an interesting trend in hikers and hiker info available.
But I guess people can still hike the way they want. They can know the hours of every grocery store within 5 miles of the trail and whether they stock Quaker or Nutrigrain granola bars, or they can wing it.
For me, I guess some basic info is good, at least knowing if a town is somewhere down the road before leaving the trail to follow it looking for resupply.
Usually I drink and snort nothing but whiskey...occassionally I sip some bourbon but it's not my first choice.;)
geek
Geez! You guys are serious cony-sewers!
I'll just have to take a back seat being just a microbeer snob.:D
saimyoji
07-28-2009, 23:57
Lug:
We'd have fun together, you, me and Jack. He brings the Malt; you bring the maps; I'll bring nothing.:D
TW
now that is a truly frightening concept.
now that is a truly frightening concept.
he will need the room in his pack for his favorite carry-out stuff
Jim Adams
07-29-2009, 09:55
Geez! You guys are serious cony-sewers!
I'll just have to take a back seat being just a microbeer snob.:D
M
micro is good too!:D
Nice micro tasting and competition on July 4 weekend every year in Ohiopyle, Pa.
geek