View Full Version : Ray Jardine hiking the AT in 2009 ??
A hiker told me that he met and spoke with Ray Jardine hiking the AT in Vermont this month. It would be great to meet and listen to his trail stories!!!
Wolf - 23000
07-26-2009, 06:49
He is just another hiker no better or worst than most hikers who are out there.
Wolf
He has done some very cool things.
Lone Wolf
07-26-2009, 07:34
like what?
A hiker told me that he met and spoke with Ray Jardine hiking the AT in Vermont this month. It would be great to meet and listen to his trail stories!!!
Yea...& to see if he is still as "LITE-WEIGHT" as he once was...:D
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Jardine
like what?
Hiking in Antarctica sounds pretty "cool".
Ox97GaMe
07-26-2009, 08:56
If he is out there, he was either day hiking or section hiking. I find it extremely difficult to believe he hiked from GA to VT without anyone knowing. Of course he could be attempting a SOBO.
Lone Wolf
07-26-2009, 09:16
Hiking in Antarctica sounds pretty "cool".
if you got the money you can do about anything. like climb everest
fiddlehead
07-26-2009, 09:18
For one thing, he did more to change the footwear that we wear when we hike than anyone else. I think 80% of us have reaped the benefits of that.
He has also designed a lot of gear and companies have used his ideas to change the way packs, tents, tarps, etc are now made. (less bells and whistles for one thing)
Not only in backpacking, he also invented "friends" i believe in the rock climbing sport. (they are used all over the world in sport climbing and do a lot to save the rock for others)
A true "free thinker", he has also been to the south pole, climbed some big mountains, and i think he even paddled across the Atlantic!
I can only wish i would've done half as much!
Wolf - 23000
07-26-2009, 09:24
Yea...& to see if he is still as "LITE-WEIGHT" as he once was...:D
That not hard to do. I for one was carrying more weight because of his book compare to if I never picked it up. When I bought his first book, I thought it would be like WF, AT Handbook not a do "it my way book". I found very little benifit to it.
Wolf
Wolf - 23000
07-26-2009, 09:36
For one thing, he did more to change the footwear that we wear when we hike than anyone else. I think 80% of us have reaped the benefits of that.
He has also designed a lot of gear and companies have used his ideas to change the way packs, tents, tarps, etc are now made. (less bells and whistles for one thing)
Not only in backpacking, he also invented "friends" i believe in the rock climbing sport. (they are used all over the world in sport climbing and do a lot to save the rock for others)
A true "free thinker", he has also been to the south pole, climbed some big mountains, and i think he even paddled across the Atlantic!
I can only wish i would've done half as much!
fiddlehead,
I'm going to disagree with you on some of this stuff. I'll start with the foot wear. I know myself back in 1989, was hiking long distance in sneakers/lightweight boots. Warren Dole has been doing it way before me. Grandma Gatewood before him. It been done by many hikers long before Jardine ever even came out with his book.
The only company that really used his idea for gear is Go-Lite which I never consider them as an Extreme Ultra-light company. The true is, gear has been out there for years without the bells and whistles. Hikers could travel Extreme ultra-light before Jardine and lighter than anything he advertise. You of all people should know that. You travel light weight before Jardine ever came around.
Going to the south pole I think would be kind of cool. I've only known two people who have been there. I'm sure some of us hard core hikers might find a way to get there.
Just my $.02
Wolf
He has also done some hard core kayaking up here in Alaska. I tried sneakers in 96 on the pct and I never looked back . I believe Fiddlehead did the same thing that yr. remember the corn pasta craze though on the Pct that year Fiddle dude ? yuck, now THAT was gross.
Ladytrekker
07-26-2009, 10:10
I find it interesting to read about the triumphs of people just like the ones on this site I take it all in. I have had the pleasure this year to become friends with and have day hiked and paddled with (this weekend for one) with Sue "Hammock Hanger" Turner, she is the one that has really inspired me to want to hike and she is quick to share with me her experiences and knowledge and could sit and talk to her forever, I always have so many questions. Ray Jardine seems like he would be another fascinating person to chat with.
fiddlehead
07-26-2009, 10:57
Ok Wolf, i'll agree that some of us tried lightweight shoes and sneakers out before Jardine's book.
But when i hit the PCT in '96 and his book was the craze, almost everyone was doing it.
And i even went lighter weight. I had been wearing hi-tech ankle high lightweight shoes but in CA everyone was wearing "running shoes" So, that's the first time i tried those.
I remember writing a letter in '90 or '91 to Wayne Gregory of Gregory packs and asking him to make a lightweight pack without the bells and whistles. He never wrote back and is now not so well known in the backpacking world as before cause he didn't make the switch.
Jansport, Lowe, Gregory, Dana. These were the biggest names in packs back in the 80's and early 90's from what i remember. (most of them heavier than lead)
Then Jardine came along and Go-lite introduced his design and now you rarely even hear of those old heavy packs.
Companies started up who saw the forward looking wisdom that came from a long distance hiker who had the credentials because of his "friends" invention (which by the way he sold to Black Diamond I believe who is another big name in the climbing world)
Anyway, sure you can disagree with me. That's what these forums are for. But the way i see it, he changed the hiking world because of his extreme ideas and everyone was at least discussing them and some were using them.
Now, on the negative side, i do believe he is a "run for the border" kind of hiker or at least once was. (and he sure hated horse people, aye? and they built the PCT!)
I'm waiting to hear what Nean has to say here. He knows him personally and was around him back when these ideas were brand new.
fiddlehead
07-26-2009, 11:00
Yeah, Yappy, i remember the corn pasta muck.
Remember when rainman didn't add enough water and it turned to a solid? One of the few times he gave me food on the trail!
I bet Blister Sister remembers that day.
I never quite understood that corn pasta thing! I recall meeting RJ back in the late 90's, thought he was a little full of himself but that could have been me. I recall he had invented some sort of climbing device that was popular within that circle.
I do not necessarily need to like a person to enjoy hearing what they have to say, and Ray has said some insightful things, IMO. I do not have to adopt all of his techniques (and food choices!) to benefit from his (or anyone's) experiences. He ain't no one special, but like many others including some here, he can make you think about your choices - and that can be a Good Thing.
I know he's off on a solo thing, but I hadn't heard the AT. In fact, I was rather under the impression that he and Jenny really weren't considering another AT thru at all. Jenny ended up not being able to go at the last minute, IIRC. Good luck to him where ever.
Ranc0r
.
I'm waiting to hear what Nean has to say here. He knows him personally and was around him back when these ideas were brand new.
Hmmm, Ray was always pretty nice to me but I never cared for him for several reasons. The way I saw him treat others, the tone of his first book, his exaggerations, his conspiracy theories, his WD sized ego, him taking credit for todays ALDHA-West when he was in fact the biggest obstacle in getting it started. Hard for me to respect anyone like that. I credit him w/ making the rat race mentality popular on the trails.
Having said that, he has done some REALLY cool stuff and that part I can admire. The adventures, not the man.
When he hiked the AT before he used a trail name, as I understand it, so he wouldn't be slowed down talking to people.
kayak karl
07-26-2009, 14:53
I do not necessarily need to like a person to enjoy hearing what they have to say, and Ray has said some insightful things, IMO. I do not have to adopt all of his techniques (and food choices!) to benefit from his (or anyone's) experiences. He ain't no one special, but like many others including some here, he can make you think about your choices - and that can be a Good Thing.
I know he's off on a solo thing, but I hadn't heard the AT. In fact, I was rather under the impression that he and Jenny really weren't considering another AT thru at all. Jenny ended up not being able to go at the last minute, IIRC. Good luck to him where ever.
Ranc0r
.
i agree with you. i don't want to listen to somebody i totally agree with. that's like listening to my own babble. i want to ask: Why?, What would you do different?, Would you do it again?
that's what makes life interesting. its better then the i'm right , your wrong attitude.
good luck Ray:)
TY
KK
Now, on the negative side, i do believe he is a "run for the border" kind of hiker or at least once was.
I'm not up on the lingo, run for the border?
Never heard of the guy till I got on the internet a few years ago, I mostly hiked with tennis shoes in the 80s, and ironicly a heavy pack.
its better then the i'm right , your wrong attitude
You never read his book!!!!!:D
I'm not up on the lingo, run for the border?
Never heard of the guy till I got on the internet a few years ago, I mostly hiked with tennis shoes in the 80s, and ironicly a heavy pack.
Running for the border is a hike to justify your methods by any means possible. He has that right- but it does little to impress me.
like what?
sailed around the world
rowed across Atlantic
paddled to the Arctic Circle
hiked Antarctica
Hiked Iceland
Thrued the AT and PCT, and the Colorado Trails
Biked across the US
Invented cool climbing device
Designed really good ultra-lite gear
does not filter water
does not use hiking pole
A hiker told me that he met and spoke with Ray Jardine hiking the AT in Vermont this month.
I'll bet the hiker was making it up. Ray usually publicizes his upcoming adventures on his website. Also, during the trip, he emails his wife, and she posts the daily details to the website. There is nothing there about a 2009 AT trip.
There have been others who have done lightweight hiking before and after Ray Jardine (I have a gear list from the Roledale books that lists a FIFTEEN base pack weight for a 1968 AT thru-hike...white gas stove included!), and have had lighter weights, but it is safe to say he did more to popularize the idea of going lighter than anyone else.
As for his "friends" device, it really did change the world of climbing.
It is possible to admire some aspects about Jardine without deifying OR demonizing the man. Personally, I like his emphasis on the "less is more" minimalism part of lightweight backpacking rather than he gear wonk fetish that seems to pervade lightweight backpacking now.
(Having said that, I don't agree with all Jardines views or actions he has done)
Hmmm, Ray was always pretty nice to me but I never cared for him for several reasons. The way I saw him treat others, the tone of his first book, his exaggerations, his conspiracy theories, his WD sized ego, him taking credit for todays ALDHA-West when he was in fact the biggest obstacle in getting it started. Hard for me to respect anyone like that. I credit him w/ making the rat race mentality popular on the trails.
Having said that, he has done some REALLY cool stuff and that part I can admire. The adventures, not the man.
When he hiked the AT before he used a trail name, as I understand it, so he wouldn't be slowed down talking to people.
Thanks Nean, it ain't just me!
Nasty Dog Virus
07-26-2009, 17:53
Packweight...7.5 lbs w/o food or water :eek:
http://www.rayjardine.com/news/index.htm (http://www.rayjardine.com/news/index.htm)
I'll bet the hiker was making it up. Ray usually publicizes his upcoming adventures on his website. Also, during the trip, he emails his wife, and she posts the daily details to the website. There is nothing there about a 2009 AT trip.
My information comes from a very reliable source. Ray is hiking alone and spent a day in Manchester Center, VT Saturday July 25th.
Fullstep
07-26-2009, 19:22
Living your life throw someone elses acompments seams a bit......Well ....
.boring....
Skidsteer
07-26-2009, 19:29
Living your life throw someone elses acompments seams a bit......Well ....
.boring....
...but you get to shower everyday. :D
Lone Wolf
07-26-2009, 19:30
sailed around the world
rowed across Atlantic
paddled to the Arctic Circle
hiked Antarctica
Hiked Iceland
Thrued the AT and PCT, and the Colorado Trails
Biked across the US
Invented cool climbing device
Designed really good ultra-lite gear
does not filter water
does not use hiking pole
he's got cash. it allows one to do "cool" stuff. a fact. i know folks who live right here in the damascus area that never traveled more than 500 miles from these "hollers" and do incredible work right here. the major majority of folks in this world don't have the luxury of "peak-bagging" and ego building. i'll take the holler folks any day
Speer Carrier
07-26-2009, 20:08
I'll bet the hiker was making it up. Ray usually publicizes his upcoming adventures on his website. Also, during the trip, he emails his wife, and she posts the daily details to the website. There is nothing there about a 2009 AT trip.
I women with whom my group hike in SNP in late May has a journal, and in her last posting she said she hiked with Ray in Massachusetts just a few weeks ago. She hiked with him for a few days. She did not mention Ray's wife, so perhaps he is hiking alone.
If I met Ray Jardine - or anyone "famous" for that matter - I'd chat with him, but I sure wouldn't go out of my way. I've read his book, and he's sure had plenty of adventures, but he seems to give himself way too much credit. For one thing, he can't even set up a tent without getting wet!:rolleyes: And he can't seem to buy the right size sneakers (and yes, I had friends back in the 70's hike the AT in sneakers, and report that they were not unusual). And when you read in his book about all the stuff he recommend carrying, and seems to have when he needs it - it somehow isn't included in his 8.5 pound list.:-? Not to mention spirtual bug repellent. Check out his website - seems to have some attitude issues, like if you figure out how to set up a tarp, or if your pack has pockets, bow in his direction - C'mon.
Nice guy, I'm sure, lots of accomplishments, but just another smelly hiker on the trail.
MedicineMan
07-26-2009, 21:27
Jardine--a clever man :)
Took Grandma Gatewood's approach and profited heavily...would have been nice if he'd given her some credit.
I do not know the man,so will not put him down...like I see some of you doing.
I will say,I think his pack design sucks. Not putting the man down,just the pack.
doodah man
07-27-2009, 00:04
For one thing, he did more to change the footwear that we wear when we hike than anyone else. I think 80% of us have reaped the benefits of that.
He has also designed a lot of gear and companies have used his ideas to change the way packs, tents, tarps, etc are now made. (less bells and whistles for one thing)
Not only in backpacking, he also invented "friends" i believe in the rock climbing sport. (they are used all over the world in sport climbing and do a lot to save the rock for others)
A true "free thinker", he has also been to the south pole, climbed some big mountains, and i think he even paddled across the Atlantic!
I can only wish i would've done half as much!
I don't know much about Ray and especially nothing about rock climbing, but if you want to see a lot of great info about the early innovators in backpack gear, go to:
http://www.oregonphotos.com/Backpacking-Revolution1.html (http://www.oregonphotos.com/Backpacking-Revolution1.html)
I also don't know who did what on hiking footwear. But I can say that when I moved from Colorado to California in 1977 the Sierras was the first place I saw lots of folks backpacking in running shoes. Back home in the Rockies, I never had seen anyone backpacking in running shoes. By around 1980, both Nike & Hi-Tec were selling very light weight hiking shoes built around the running shoe concept. Nike Approach (mid-high), Nike Lava Dome (low-top) are a couple of model names I recall.
...I will say,I think his pack design sucks. Not putting the man down,just the pack.
What do you not like about it? I made one and love it.
What do you not like about it? I made one and love it.
Not having a waistbelt doesn't work for me. No matter how light the packa and the load inside it.
Blue Jay
07-27-2009, 10:06
You never read his book!!!!!:D
NOT READ THE ULTALIGHT BIBLE, that is simply unforgiveable. You simply cannot hike without reading it. Oh the horror.:banana
Blue Jay
07-27-2009, 10:10
the major majority of folks in this world don't have the luxury of "peak-bagging" and ego building. i'll take the holler folks any day
Yet another great Wolfism. Thank you for that one as truer words have never been spoken.
warren doyle
07-27-2009, 10:48
Ray is indeed hiking the AT nobo solo.
Might meet up with him when I'm doing sections in NH/ME next week.
I hiked the AT for $5.69 cents of footwear early on. 3 pairs of sneakers that cost $1 each at a thrift store plus a $2.69 tube of Shoe Goo. That also was the thru-hike that I only used one pair of my own socks, using socks I found along the trail and laudramats along the way.
Not having a waistbelt doesn't work for me. No matter how light the packa and the load inside it.
Jesse,Marta hit it on the head...no waste belt,and the shoulder straps were way to close to each other w/ no sternum strap. Sized by them,I should have known better .
Make that waistbelt,my spelling is getting bad the older I get.
I'd rather hear some stories from Jardine on rowing across the pacific, than a good soul's tales about life in the holler, but that's just me.
More power to those who find a way to do such things.
Cindy Ross had some interesting stories as the keynote speaker at the biennial conference including her multi-year trek down the Continental Divide Trail, with a team of support llamas carrying 100 cloth diapers to make it all possible.
Really cool.
Not going to attempt either adventure myself. I like listening to them when I get a chance, though.
fiddlehead
07-27-2009, 20:26
I'd rather hear some stories from Jardine on rowing across the pacific, than a good soul's tales about life in the holler, but that's just me.
More power to those who find a way to do such things.
Cindy Ross
Me too.
Some of my favorite books are from authors who have sailed in the southern oceans or explored the arctic circle.
Or set out to find nearly extinct birds in New Guinea or skied to the south pole.
Or anyone who has pushed the limits.
Hearing about "holler' people that don't ever leave their county for whatever reason just doesn't interest me. Don't get me wrong, nothing wrong with people who grew up in the "holler" but i'd much rather read (or go join) about David Horton testing another record than read or go see Deliverence.
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 20:27
all it takes is money
all it takes is money
Sure.
Rowing the Pacific or climbing El Cap is just like an Abercrombie and Kent tour.
On the other hand it does take money to buy cool by way of a Harley and a helmet that doesn't even protect your head.
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 20:34
Sure.
Rowing the Pacific or climbing El Cap is just like an Abercrombie and Kent tour.
On the other hand it does take money to buy cool by way of a Harley and a helmet that doesn't even protect your head.
w t f are you talkin' about?
w t f are you talkin' about?
all it takes is money...*** are YOU talking about? :rolleyes:
It takes MUCH more than money ! Duh!:D
Some things take more than money.
Including more than a couple on Ray Jardine's list.
What's more, quite a few people do very interesting stuff without a whole lot of coin.
Lone Wolf
07-27-2009, 20:44
Some things take more than money.
Including more than a couple on Ray Jardine's list.
What's more, quite a few people do very interesting stuff without a whole lot of coin.
yeah no ****. jesus turned water to a good cabernet
fiddlehead
07-27-2009, 20:52
Hiking long distance, running on trails, skiing the arctic, rowing across oceans, sailing around the world,......................
These things can be done without much money.
If you can invent things that people buy or write books that people read, the money you generate while travelling will more than pay your way.
Alfred Wallace collected beetles around the world for a living and in the process discovered an amazing fact of life.
yeah no ****. jesus turned water to a good cabernet
Jesus...I thought wolf did that ? :rolleyes:
What is it about authors and WB folks?
One writes a semi popular book and a significant number of people want to tear his toe nails off?
I remember trying to read his book, Beyond Backpacking, a number of years ago, and I was unable to.
Because it was out of print!
It took me several months to track down a copy.
Although I don't agree with everything he writes, he did get some folks to, at least, question, what they are doing. And that is a genuine, although dangerous, accomplishment.
fiddlehead
07-27-2009, 21:29
I think it's just a tendency of internet forums yaduck9
It seems if anyone is successful, people tend to do their utmost to put them down.
Sad really, but maybe we're all guilty of it to some degree.
flemdawg1
07-27-2009, 23:22
Is he the guy in that Dos Equis commercial? :-)
But seriously he does seem like an interesting and accomplished fella. Not everything he wrote was his original idea. But alot of the UL industry owes him for his designs that he popularized in his books.
Wolf - 23000
07-28-2009, 12:10
Packweight...7.5 lbs w/o food or water :eek:
http://www.rayjardine.com/news/index.htm (http://www.rayjardine.com/news/index.htm)
So what is your point???? That wasn't and still not that hard to do to anyone who has long distance before. And if you look at his first book in 1993, no body in their right mind would even consider him lightweight.
Wolf
Wolf - 23000
07-28-2009, 12:17
He has also done some hard core kayaking up here in Alaska. I tried sneakers in 96 on the pct and I never looked back . I believe Fiddlehead did the same thing that yr. remember the corn pasta craze though on the Pct that year Fiddle dude ? yuck, now THAT was gross.
I remember in 1996 & 1997, while I thru-hiking the PCT both years, running into the "Jardine's followers" - that were traveling with three/four or five times more weight as myself. He did nothing the average hiker could not do for themselves.
Wolf
I sense some sour grapes here...
Jardine was not the first, nor the lightest, etc..etc.
But, he undeniably popularized the concepts and made it seem more accessible to many people.
Sure..others can come up with the ideas on their own.
However, I could learn how to do a bowline hitch on my own, too. Does not mean I want to do it. :sun
Wolf - 23000
07-29-2009, 04:38
I sense some sour grapes here...
Jardine was not the first, nor the lightest, etc..etc.
But, he undeniably popularized the concepts and made it seem more accessible to many people.
Sure..others can come up with the ideas on their own.
However, I could learn how to do a bowline hitch on my own, too. Does not mean I want to do it. :sun
Did he??? The light weight gear has been around long before Ray Jardine book ever came out. Grandma Gatewood, John Muir and many others all did it long before Jardine ever came out with his book. To say he made it more accessible I would doubt. The gear to travel ultra-light has been around ever sense I can remember – years before Jardine book.
As for you saying he, “popularized the concept” I don’t know about that. How many light weight websites or videos, books are out there about lightweight backpacking by folks other than Jardine? I think it is safe to say many. This website, to it credit, has a given many, many, many hikers more advise on backpacking than Jardine has ever. To give Jardine or any one person credit either way I don’t believe.
Even if Jardine never wrote his book or step foot on the trail, gear would still have gotten lighter and hikers would still be carrying what they are today.
Wolf
What is it about authors and WB folks?
One writes a semi popular book and a significant number of people want to tear his toe nails off?
I remember trying to read his book, Beyond Backpacking, a number of years ago, and I was unable to.
Because it was out of print!
It took me several months to track down a copy.
Although I don't agree with everything he writes, he did get some folks to, at least, question, what they are doing. And that is a genuine, although dangerous, accomplishment.
Have you ever stopped to think that it has nothing to do w/ writing a book?;) It has nothing to do w/ success or the net- either:eek: What does that leave you with?
Darwin again
07-29-2009, 10:58
he's got cash. it allows one to do "cool" stuff. a fact. i know folks who live right here in the damascus area that never traveled more than 500 miles from these "hollers" and do incredible work right here. the major majority of folks in this world don't have the luxury of "peak-bagging" and ego building. i'll take the holler folks any day
Some peoples' minds and bodies operate at a higher level than most other peoples'.
Jardine invented, among other things, climbing friends. He was an aerospace engineer who quit to go climbing routes that had never been climbed before. He has the brains to make money to fund his global adventures and lifestyle. Can't fault him for working hard and being smart and successful. He also developed the go-light philosophy before someone who I won't name here took it to market and made a mint.
Did he??? The light weight gear has been around long before Ray Jardine book ever came out. G
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Look, I am not a Jardine cheerleader. But I am not going to demonize the man either.
As I said umpteenth times...there were/are others before and after.
But I sincerely doubt the whole idea would have gain as much momentum when it did if it was not for the little book.
I am repeating myself again. 'Nuff said.
Wolf - 23000
07-29-2009, 15:29
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Look, I am not a Jardine cheerleader. But I am not going to demonize the man either.
As I said umpteenth times...there were/are others before and after.
But I sincerely doubt the whole idea would have gain as much momentum when it did if it was not for the little book.
I am repeating myself again. 'Nuff said.
Mag,
I think you misunderstood my post. First, I don't think anyone here is demonizing the guy. I've never met the guy. He may be a great guy, he may not. I don't know.
What we are going to disagree about is how much influence he really gave through his book. I don't believe it was just one man or woman really revolutionizes lightweight backpacking. As you said, and we agree, there were others that were doing the same thing as Jardine before, during and after his book. You may feel different and that is your option as I have mine. Peace.
Wolf
fiddlehead
07-29-2009, 21:38
I've heard that they still call the guys who are "running for the border": Jardine-ites or "Jardin-nazis" out on the PCT.
The books were written in the mid-90's.
If that isn't influence, what is?
Wolf - 23000
07-30-2009, 03:39
I've heard that they still call the guys who are "running for the border": Jardine-ites or "Jardin-nazis" out on the PCT.
The books were written in the mid-90's.
If that isn't influence, what is?
Fiddlehead,
There were hikers that wanted to call me that too even when Jardine’s book had the reverse affect on my first thru-hike and had me carrying more weight than what I needed. I’m not saying his book didn’t have some influence to help the average rookie hiker from leaving Campo, CA with a lighter pack but not as much as he is given credit for. The average hiker after the initial break-in period will do that all by themselves after the first month or so. There are plenty of UL hikers that have never read Ray Jardine book but yet some followers still want to give Jardine credit for helping them travel lighter.
What I would contribute helping hikers the most to lighten is the internet. Sites like WhiteBlaze where hikers can ask their questions to a vast knowledge of other hikers - something that was around or near as popular back in the 1990s. Manufactures companies can also get real input on the quality of their product from hikers needed to make improvements. That is were I give the credit to.
Wolf
fiddlehead
07-30-2009, 08:54
Maybe i ran into different hikers than you did Wolf.
But i distinctly remember a bunch of them telling me why they jettisoned the top of their pack, sewed mesh pockets in place of heavier canvas ones, used umbrellas, switched to running shoes, even putting their water bottles in their mesh pockets upside down (something i still do). I remember one them saying: Well Ray Jardine says to do it like this.
I'm not saying they wouldn't have learned it otherwise. I possibly would have learned to sew mesh pockets where my regular pockets were anyway, or to walk barefoot to toughen my feet. But in reality, i didn't learn it somewhere else. I learned these things either from his book or from his Jardine-ite followers.
I never met the man and possibly wouldn't like him as he is a bit of an egocentric isn't he.
But i would certainly respect the things he's done and the things he's taught me.
I'm always in awe of a triple crowner or someone who's sailed around the world or been to the south or north pole. I have met a few of them in my time and they are interesting people.
Now, Jenny? I'd like to have a few hours chat with her too and see how many of his ideas were hers.
I put him in the same category as Royal Robbins or Yvon Chouinard as inventors and explorers that amazed me. (And yes, Grandma Gatewood would most likely fit into that category too although i don't know if she invented much besides a way to hike the trail without much stuff.)
max patch
07-30-2009, 09:05
even putting their water bottles in their mesh pockets upside down (something i still do).
fiddlehead, why do you do this?
fiddlehead
07-30-2009, 09:27
It is much easier to put them in, especially if you don't take your pack off to get your bottle in or out, it can be done with one hand easily.
It's just a little thing but something i learned that year on the PCT from one of the disciples. I sort of laughed at him for saying he learned it from Jardine as i thought it was pretty stupid. But then i started trying it and now...............well, i still do.
(i prefer a gatoraid bottle but any pepsi bottle is ok too) (sometimes easier to fill a gatoraid bottle quicker though)
Wolf - 23000
07-30-2009, 11:41
Fiddlehead,
I ran into most PCT hikers in 1996 and almost all PCT hikers in 1997. In 1996, I was behind you for about half of the PCT before getting ahead for the last 1,000 miles.
I also remember running into many, many hikers who were either tossing out their corn spaghetti into food boxes (wasting money they could have used else where) or that ran into some serious trouble hikers hiking through the Sierra because they didn’t know how to get over the pass or because it was ice rain/snowing on them (risking their safety). The PCT handbook in those cases had hurt their hike rather than helped.
What he took away was hikers thinking for themselves – well Jardine does it this way so I have to. What about the Jardine’s fans that still needed someone to tell them what to carry or how to do some basic wilderness things? Or what about the irresponsible hikers that read his book that might have the gear but don’t have the knowledge to go with it. What about the hikers like me that were carrying more weight because of some bad advise/information in his book.
I don’t believe his book didn’t help as much some people would like to believe and in some ways set back responsible UL hiking.
As for Jardine as a person, I never met the guy so I can’t say I would either like him or not. I won’t ditch some of the things he has done like go to the Pole, or sailed around the world -- which I have no interest in doing but if it made him happy so be it. As Lone Wolf pointed out, it takes money. If I had the money, I would be doing a lot more than I am now too.
Wolf
I'll start with the foot wear. I know myself back in 1989, was hiking long distance in sneakers/lightweight boots. Warren Dole has been doing it way before me. Grandma Gatewood before him. It been done by many hikers long before Jardine ever even came out with his book.
That may be true but how many people read your, or Warren's or GrandMa Gatewood's book that help revolutionize footwear backpackers wear?
NOT READ THE ULTALIGHT BIBLE, that is simply unforgiveable. You simply cannot hike without reading it. Oh the horror.:banana
I found his PCT Thru-hikers Handbook a valuable resource for hiking that trail.
all it takes is money
If that were the case I would have finished my last two attempts. That said, running out of money, caused a delay in finishing my 1st two attempts.
Wolf - 23000
07-30-2009, 13:15
That may be true but how many people read your, or Warren's or GrandMa Gatewood's book that help revolutionize footwear backpackers wear?
I have never written a book and to my knowledge neither has Grandma Gatewood either. Warren I believe has written one, how well it did you would have to ask him.
Ok, reverse question, how many times have hikers mention they hike in sneakers vs boots on the internet. I think it is safe to say, a lot more times than the amount of books Jardine soild.
Wolf
Jack Tarlin
07-30-2009, 16:30
I was unaware that Grandma Gatewood had ever written a book.
Likewise, if Warren Doyle has had an actual book published, I am also unaware of this, and have never seen a copy.
If I am wrong about any of this, I'd be happy to be corrected. In fact, I'd welcome being corrected; if books by either of these folks are extant, I'd like to read them.
Lone Wolf
07-30-2009, 16:42
neither of them have written books. but i wrote the book (unpublished) on going heavy, blue-blazing and just havin' fun :)
Jack Tarlin
07-30-2009, 16:45
When Lone Wolf writes a book, I will very happily be the first person to purchase it.
Mental masturbation.
Incredulous and insignificant bantering.
Read what you like, respect, enjoy or what inspires you.
What books are on your library shelf?
Desecrating those who have the creative inspiration to make public their ideas through literature, diaries etc, is quite pathetic.
Lone Wolf
07-30-2009, 20:10
i was just gonna say that winger. ya beat me to it
Mental masturbation.
Incredulous and insignificant bantering.
Read what you like, respect, enjoy or what inspires you.
What books are on your library shelf?
Desecrating those who have the creative inspiration to make public their ideas through literature, diaries etc, is quite pathetic.
Wow,very well written Winger.
You nailed it!
sheepdog
07-30-2009, 20:59
I think we should put wingfoot and Ray Jardine in the same thread. It would keep from screwing up two threads.
sheepdog
07-30-2009, 21:04
Wow,very well written Winger.
You nailed it!
That's a fact
Wolf - 23000
07-31-2009, 01:26
I was unaware that Grandma Gatewood had ever written a book.
Likewise, if Warren Doyle has had an actual book published, I am also unaware of this, and have never seen a copy.
If I am wrong about any of this, I'd be happy to be corrected. In fact, I'd welcome being corrected; if books by either of these folks are extant, I'd like to read them.
Jack,
As I said, to my knowledge Grandma Gatewood has not written a book. As for Warren Doyle I believe he has but it may have not been published. If you like to read Warren's book, I would suggest you ask him for a copy - which should be a new thread all by itself.
Wolf
stranger
07-31-2009, 02:46
From what I've seen perhaps what Jardine did best was bring ultra-light hiking into the mainstream outdoor market, probably around 94-97. Things were quite different then, and yes of course, there were hikers out there who were already doing it - but the reality was that MOST hikers were not, and most thru-hikers were out there with 40lb packs.
There seem to be a healthy amount of people on here that talk in vast minority examples, as if 0.5% of the hiking population means anything, like anything what's generally more reflective of where people are at is what the mainstream are doing, and the typical thru-hiker in 1995 did not have a Vapor Trail, 23oz tarptent, 1.5lb down bag, alcohol stove and trail runners.
I'm not a big fan of anything Go-lite does, but that company did more for ultralight hiking than any other company in my experience. I saw it overnight, all of a sudden customers walking into Campmor with postal scales, asking to weigh stuff, asking for the "real weight" - up until then alot of us never thought about packaged weight vs trail weight, we just went by the catalog. It just wasn't all "that" important.
Back in 1995, you could not keep a 7lb 12oz, $420 Terraplane in stock, you couldn't keep mid-weight Vasque Sundowners in stock, despite them being gore-tex and completely leather, 8lb Gregory packs flew out the door, people were carrying 6000 cubic inch packs for 2 day trips! 3.5lb synthetic bags were not considered excessive, nor was carrying 22oz fuel bottles and MSR XGK's, no one was using alcohol stoves back then, you couldn't give away a Trangia back then. Sure, you can point out the 15-30 hikers who were already going very light, but thousands were not.
All of that started to change around the time Jardine put out his book. I did fairly long hikes along the AT in 1995, then again in 2001, and again last year - there has been a slight shift over the past 6-7 years but not much in terms of gear, but the difference between 1995 and 2001 was astounding. And I also saw it at Campmor, and when I ran the department we would be doing 200-300 fits per week easily during Spring, I remember doing stock on small and medium Terraplanes on a Sat morning and be worried that we only had 4 in each size! That's at $450 each with tax! Then one day everyone wants lighter gear, smaller packs, tarps, all around the time Jardine put out his book.
Jardine may not have invented ultralight hiking, but he is largely responsible for making it well known, not entirely, but probably more than any other single person. And the fact the he most likely profited from this is what upsets people most.
Just like Lowe Alpine didn't invent the internal frame pack, they get credit for it because they were the first to mass produce it.
It's all relative.
Wolf - 23000
07-31-2009, 08:20
Stranger there are a few problems with your argument and even proves my point that it wasn’t Jardine. I’ll explain. I’ll start with the alcohol stove which I take most personal. Jardine in any of his books never suggest using the alcohol stove. I take that one a little personal because I was the one who introduce the first home made alcohol stove in a 1994 ALDHA workshops (and several others) and in the 1996 video production Lightweight Backpacking Secrets Revealed by Lynn Welden. :-? I started using one back in 1993 on the PCT after my gas stove died on me. Jardine had nothing to do with it and yet you are trying to give him credit for it.
His first book The PCT Handbook came out of course in 1993. Ray Jardine himself was barely traveling lightweight even by the 1990 standards. If you seen it, it was hardly about lightweight backpacking. I should know, I was carrying more weight because of it when I thru-hiked the PCT that year. Even by your own statement, hikers were still buying large packs 2 years after Jardine book first came out. Sure he suggest hikers carry to carry as little as possible but by that same argument so did Wingfoot’ AT Handbook. I believe Wingfoot also suggested using a postal scale. Shouldn't Wingfoot be given the credit to helping hikers lighten up their gear?
His next book came out in 1996, the same year as Lynn Welden video came out and a dozen other books or articles on Lightweight backpacking. It was also the time when the internet was starting to pick up with several backcountry website/forms for people to ask questions. Jardine book was mainly sold on the west cost while the internet expanded a lot farther. You had people all around the country helping hikers learn what gear to get/avoid, learn new tips and answer their questions. Something Jardine could not do in his book.
As for your gear example in 1995, the main stream hikers I agree the Vapor Trail, 23oz tarptent, 1.5lb down bag etc… wasn't around as you said. There was other stuff out there was close to the same weight. There was the North Face Lightrider at 1.7 pounds, or bivy shelter that started at 22 oz if memory serves me right it was made by Sierra Design. All main stream equipment.
As for the huge packs Dana Design Terraplane or Gregory pack, that were sold that is straight out a reflection on the sales personal not taking care of the customer. Sure everyone just starting off thinking they need a large backpack until the first couple weeks on the trail when they learn better. They still do the same thing every year. Go down to Georgia in mid-March/April and you will still see it. Not as much, thanks to the internet and sites like WhiteBlaze. :D You will also see a lot more hikers that in order to save weight are freezing during the day and at night a lot more than the past. Most hikers don't think about weight until after they hit the trail and feel it on their backs.
Wolf
stranger
07-31-2009, 10:13
Wolf, first of all there is no reason to take offense to my post. If you read the post again, you will see that I did not credit Jardine with creating the alcohol stove, I actually mentioned Trangia by name. I didn't mean to say that Jardine invented the home made alcohol stove, what I meant was his profile helped promote ultralight hiking, hence the use of lighter gear, hence using lighter stoves - alcohol stoves.
I'm well aware of Wingfoot's lightweight approach as early as 1985, I've talked with Dan Bruce more than once and I know he was carrying a Trangia back in the 80's. And sure, Wingfoot helped thousands of hikers but other than that video you mentioned, that you are in yourself, I don't recall Wingfoot having the same type of influence as say Jardine in my experiences. He didn't really talk about his packweight as much as some other people I met, or read.
Lynn Wheldon did alot for lightweight hiking, You did alot for ultralight hiking, and so did the internet, progressive outdoor shops, some rogue companies, hardcore AT and PCT hikers - that's not my point. My point is that you can trace alot of influence to Ray Jardine, his books, and Golite. Clearly, there were more influences than Jardine, but not as prominent or well promoted. I agree that this does not necessarily reflect accuracy.
In terms of salespeople selling the wrong gear, well my friend 99% of retail salespeople need a job to earn an income and they do not have influence over what the shop carries. And most people don't obsess over weight the way some other people do, therefore the priority isn't to get someone in the lightest gear possible, there are other considerations, including the customers comfort zone, price, features, durability, fit, suspensions, foams, etc... I never sold a Terraplane cause I thought it was a great pack, I sold a Terraplane because hundreds of people walked in the shop and pointed, and said "I'm looking for a Dana Terraplane", and they wouldn't listen to anything else.
Bill Bryson didn't write the best book about the Appalachian Trail, but it sold the most copies and will always have the most influence. You can choose to like Bryson, or not like him, you can choose to debate the quality of his book or his hike, but you cannot change the fact that his book will go down in history as the most read book about the AT, and most people will develop their view of the AT from "A Walk in the Woods".
Anyhow, I'm happy to "agree to disagree".
Have you ever stopped to think that it has nothing to do w/ writing a book?;) It has nothing to do w/ success or the net- either:eek: What does that leave you with?
Hey now, Hey now....
.....Be nice......
Young folk are on this forum!
:rolleyes:
Wolf - 23000
07-31-2009, 12:19
Stranger,
I am happy to “agree to disagree”, too. I still don’t see how you can trace it all back to Jardine. I was out there A LOT back in the 1990’s up until 1998. The hikers I ran into, most didn’t make their gear as Ray suggested. Only a small amount did. His diet plan, most hikers dumb his idea for Corn Spaghetti in hiker boxes. What else is there? Even Jardine himself, wasn’t traveling all that light up until his last book after getting a help from other hikers. It gives new meaning to the phrase, “do as I say, don’t do as I do”
Peace,
Wolf
Lone Wolf
07-31-2009, 12:27
what's this corn spaghetti all about?
sherrill
07-31-2009, 12:29
Watch out now or you guys will be having beers at the White House...
Jack Tarlin
07-31-2009, 12:33
Wolf:
Jardine was famous for advocating corn-based pasta as a great food for hikers.
Some people like it. Most don't.
Happily, at least on the A.T., it's not all that easy to find, so a lot of folks out this way, happily, are unfamiliar with it.
Wolf - 23000
07-31-2009, 12:44
Watch out now or you guys will be having beers at the White House...
I'll look forward to it!!! I could use a couple COLD BEERs - I'm not allow to drink over here AT ALL.
Wolf
Jack Tarlin
07-31-2009, 12:46
We will have one in your honor at Blister's birthday party this weekend Wolf, and we'll have a real one with you very soon!
Wolf:
Jardine was famous for advocating corn-based pasta as a great food for hikers.
Some people like it. Most don't.
Happily, at least on the A.T., it's not all that easy to find, so a lot of folks out this way, happily, are unfamiliar with it.
He promoted it as being better than wheat pasta even though it tasted like mush. When it was pointed out that it had the exact same benefits, he claimed (w/o example) manufactures had changed the way it was produced. Yeah right.:rolleyes:
He was instrumental in teaching hikers how to use a public restroom and ordering from a restaurant - i.e. insist on a paper plate and use your own silverware! One arm backpack! Genius! Umbrellas were used long before he promoted them as well. He did recognize Grandma G in at least one of his books and would wonder why he stopped if she isn't mentioned in later editions. God bless Ray- despite his ego, methods, paranoia and exaggerations he has still managed to play a part in inspiring folks to go lighter.
Rays rep in the climbing community is pretty much the same. He introduced questionable methods for the purpose getting to the top quicker and easier, which he feels is better. His attitude always seemed to be Faster is smarter and slower is stupid and that of course :o, doesn't suit me. Rat racers on the other hand - tend to have more admiration. Proving how fast you can be done with a trail (taking short-cuts and setting your alarm so as not to take more than a 5 min break) has never been a goal of mine-- despite my speed records. ;)
People love and root for the Squeakys and Scott Williams (in general) because they are unassuming. The WD, WF, FB and RJs get ribbed because they are not.:)
Darwin again
07-31-2009, 14:48
Stranger there are a few problems with your argument and even proves my point that it wasn’t Jardine. I’ll explain. I’ll start with the alcohol stove which I take most personal. ...
"... which I take most personal ..." ?
Rlly?
Jack Tarlin
07-31-2009, 21:32
Um,Nean, I hate to rain on the parade, but without going into specifics, there are plenty of reasons that the folks you mentioned above have been "ribbed" over the years.
And it ain't merely because they refused to be unassuming. :D
Wolf - 23000
08-01-2009, 07:39
"... which I take most personal ..." ?
Rlly?
Darwin again,
Considering I was the one who first introduce and promoted the first homemade alcohol stove in both a video sold around the country and at multiplies workshops. Jardine never promoted using an alcohol stove. To associate the use of an alcohol stove in a thread inference to a man that had nothing to do with it or promote the idea, I think was out of line particular to the guy that did promote it. Stranger when back and explain, he believes Jardine “hence the use of lighter gear, hence using lighter stoves - alcohol stoves.” I’m don’t see how Jardine hence the use of any lighter equipment any more than WF, Ed Garvy, and half a dozen other former hikers but Stranger is entitle to his opinion as I am mine. As we said, we “agree to disagree”.
So my question to you is what with the “Rlly?” Please also use proper English. I know my English is not perfect either but I don’t like having to do a google search to find out what you are trying to say.
Wolf
warren doyle
08-02-2009, 22:40
Interesting thread.
I will eventually write a book when I can't hike anymore.
My "book" now is in its 27th edition. It is one page (both sides), free and downloadable from my website below.
Looking forward to hiking Franconia Ridge/Garfield tomorrow.
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-06-2009, 12:13
I'm very surprised to hear RJ would be hiking on the AT. It is considered a very easy trail by most serious long-distance trekkers (many call it the 'bunny slope' of long-distance hiking). I can't imagine why a trekker with the stamina and experience of RJ would even consider hiking something as easy as the AT again with all the more challenging and more beautiful trails available. Maybe he is rehabbing some sort of injury or needs to stay close to civilization to stay in touch with Jenny.
CrumbSnatcher
08-06-2009, 12:56
I'm very surprised to hear RJ would be hiking on the AT. It is considered a very easy trail by most serious long-distance trekkers (many call it the 'bunny slope' of long-distance hiking). I can't imagine why a trekker with the stamina and experience of RJ would even consider hiking something as easy as the AT again with all the more challenging and more beautiful trails available. Maybe he is rehabbing some sort of injury or needs to stay close to civilization to stay in touch with Jenny.
you might be closer to towns and such,but the terrain on the A.T. is tougher than those other trails you talk about. read the A.T. VS the PCT. THREAD AND ALL THE HIKERS WHO HIKED THE PCT, SAID THE A.T. WAS MORE OF A PHYSICAL CHALLENGE!
It is considered a very easy trail by most serious long-distance trekkers (many call it the 'bunny slope' of long-distance hiking).
you might be closer to towns and such,but the terrain on the A.T. is tougher than those other trails you talk about. read the A.T. VS the PCT. THREAD AND ALL THE HIKERS WHO HIKED THE PCT, SAID THE A.T. WAS MORE OF A PHYSICAL CHALLENGE!
I don't know if I'm a "serious" long distance trekker, but I (and many of my fellow hiker trash friends..perhaps not so serious as well) would never think of it as the bunny slope of long distance hiking. 2175 miles through mountains, all kinds of weather, some of the steepest terrain I have ever hiked (Whites, Mahoosucs) and so on hardly makes it an easy trail. It is easier (in some ways) than the PCT, but again, hardly easy.
Now about about that old nugget of the AT being harder physically than the PCT, again, I think the AT is perceived as being more difficult physically because (for the most part) many people new to long distance hiking will hike the AT as their first trail.
For a variety reasons (lack of experience, generally heavier gear, not in the best physical or mental shape for long distance hiking), the first trail is often perceived as the most difficult.
There are indeed short, steep climbs on the AT....but nothing that bad (again, northern New England being the very big exception). When I did the BMT, the grades were generally not too bad for this non-serious long distance trekker. I suspect if it was my first trail, I would think very differently!
I was not beat up as much on the PCT as I was on the AT, but my base packweight was less than half of what I took on the AT, I weighed less when I started the PCT and I was in better shape overall for the start.
Looking for a "bunny slope" of a long distance trail? Do the Tahoe Rim Trail. (http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php/tahoe-rim-trail/tahoe-rim-trail.html) Short enough to do in a two week vacation, easy logistics, easy tread over all.
Some people hike the AT again (or the East in general) because there is a certain beauty that is not just found out West. I loved my time on the BMT. I did not get the vast views of my current home....but I did not expect it. I went for the hardwoods, the tunnels of rhodos, moss covered logs in a blanket of fog and that wonderful smell of leaves on a sunny day.
In this pointless debate of "Which trail is harder"..well, it is jsut that...pointless.
I prefer to hike the trails for their unique beauty and the experience each offers. I've leave the idea of which trail is harder to the mucho macho hotdogs who care for such a concept. :)
CrumbSnatcher
08-06-2009, 13:22
I don't know if I'm a "serious" long distance trekker, but I (and many of my fellow hiker trash friends..perhaps not so serious as well) would never think of it as the bunny slope of long distance hiking. 2175 miles through mountains, all kinds of weather, some of the steepest terrain I have ever hiked (Whites, Mahoosucs) and so on hardly makes it an easy trail. It is easier (in some ways) than the PCT, but again, hardly easy.
Now about about that old nugget of the AT being harder physically than the PCT, again, I think the AT is perceived as being more difficult physically because (for the most part) many people new to long distance hiking will hike the AT as their first trail.
For a variety reasons (lack of experience, generally heavier gear, not in the best physical or mental shape for long distance hiking), the first trail is often perceived as the most difficult.
There are indeed short, steep climbs on the AT....but nothing that bad (again, northern New England being the very big exception). When I did the BMT, the grades were generally not too bad for this non-serious long distance trekker. I suspect if it was my first trail, I would think very differently!
I was not beat up as much on the PCT as I was on the AT, but my base packweight was less than half of what I took on the AT, I weighed less when I started the PCT and I was in better shape overall for the start.
Looking for a "bunny slope" of a long distance trail? Do the Tahoe Rim Trail. (http://www.pmags.com/joomla/index.php/tahoe-rim-trail/tahoe-rim-trail.html) Short enough to do in a two week vacation, easy logistics, easy tread over all.
Some people hike the AT again (or the East in general) because there is a certain beauty that is not just found out West. I loved my time on the BMT. I did not get the vast views of my current home....but I did not expect it. I went for the hardwoods, the tunnels of rhodos, moss covered logs in a blanket of fog and that wonderful smell of leaves on a sunny day.
In this pointless debate of "Which trail is harder"..well, it is jsut that...pointless.
I prefer to hike the trails for their unique beauty and the experience each offers. I've leave the idea of which trail is harder to the mucho macho hotdogs who care for such a concept. :)
mags i agree with what your saying , i just found it funny she said it was a cake walk (THE A.T.), somedays yes not NOT always! she said it like she's never hiked any of the hard parts of the trail(A.T.)?
Frolicking Dinosaurs
08-06-2009, 15:02
Mags, you are certainly a serious long-distance hiker - one of the very few found on this site. I agree completely with what you said - especially the part on the beauty of each trail and the pointlessness of fussing over what trail is hardest. Will file away the info about the Tahoe Rim trail for when I'm out west. Thanks.
CrumbSnatcher, I really wouldn't take what is said on a thread on this site about the PCT vrs the AT to be the overall opinion of really serious long-distance hikers. There are just too few of them posting here to make a judgment.
I should have known better than to post on this site - somebody will try to pick a fight with you every time. :rolleyes:
CrumbSnatcher
08-06-2009, 16:05
Mags, you are certainly a serious long-distance hiker - one of the very few found on this site. I agree completely with what you said - especially the part on the beauty of each trail and the pointlessness of fussing over what trail is hardest. Will file away the info about the Tahoe Rim trail for when I'm out west. Thanks.
CrumbSnatcher, I really wouldn't take what is said on a thread on this site about the PCT vrs the AT to be the overall opinion of really serious long-distance hikers. There are just too few of them posting here to make a judgment.
I should have known better than to post on this site - somebody will try to pick a fight with you every time. :rolleyes:
i haven't been on this site that long, i don't pick fights! im grown up.IMO you made the A.T. sound less important.you don't go out and hike in MAINE OR NEW HAMPSHIRE to rehab an old injury! MAGS even said he wouldn't call it a bunny slope! i take hiking serious too! next month i will have 4 completions of the A.T. its a big part of my life. and i hope my daughter will enjoy hiking someday soon too. have you hiked the hard parts of the trail ?
CrumbSnatcher
08-06-2009, 16:11
i do take what was said In the A.T. VRS the PCT thread serious! people like MAGS,A-TRAIN ,NEAN,JESTER and a few others said the A.T. could be and was more physically tougher at times,and and can beat you up now and then. as i know to be true. so i think i could take that to the bank! and no i don't believe everything said here on the net,i know how to seperate the bull! i know both trails are different in alot of ways. i wouldn't say either one was easy, not when you hike for 4-6 months.
High Altitude
08-12-2009, 02:22
I agree with Mags. I don't like a lot of his ideas but there is no way you can deny what Ray Jardine did.
He also revolutionized trad climbing with the friend.
Wolf - 23000
08-12-2009, 08:35
I agree with Mags. I don't like a lot of his ideas but there is no way you can deny what Ray Jardine did.
He also revolutionized trad climbing with the friend.
He didn't do crap besides write a book just like many other hikers have done. It wasn't even a very good one either - neither one of us like his ideas. It strange, that so many people will agree he didn't have the greatest ideas but yet they still want to give him credit for lightweight backpacking and yet he didn't even travel all that light himself. :-?
I personal found his book next you useless other then the town information in the back which is why I bought the book in the first place.
Wolf - 23000
08-12-2009, 08:44
I'm very surprised to hear RJ would be hiking on the AT. It is considered a very easy trail by most serious long-distance trekkers (many call it the 'bunny slope' of long-distance hiking). I can't imagine why a trekker with the stamina and experience of RJ would even consider hiking something as easy as the AT again with all the more challenging and more beautiful trails available. Maybe he is rehabbing some sort of injury or needs to stay close to civilization to stay in touch with Jenny.
Frolicking Dinosaurs,
As a hiker who has done the AT more than once, I can understand why someone like RJ would still want to do the AT. Outside of hiking the AT in the winter, a normal thru-hike really is not that hard for a seasonal hiker but yet it is still a nice walk in the park. It nice to run into other serious hikers, or even see hikers just starting off. The AT can also be a simple mindless walk needed to clear your head. What ever the reason, the AT can still be very enjoyable regaurdless of how many miles you have walked.
Wolf
I know that Ray was not the first to promote the lightweight revolution but it is almost certain that he was one of the first to take on the large backpacking companies and call them out on the carpet for promoting heavy, overbuilt, and ultra-expensive gear that 99% of us dont need. Everest is real and the dangers are real but honestly, how many of us get the chance to find out first hand? Just like most large companies tell us that we need certain equipment to be safe and comfortable, we really can do with less; a lot less.
I'm with Wolf-23000, Ray Jardine is the worst hiker of all time and quite possibly the cause of global warming, swine flu and Lindsay Lohan.
Wolf - 23000
08-12-2009, 11:31
I know that Ray was not the first to promote the lightweight revolution but it is almost certain that he was one of the first to take on the large backpacking companies and call them out on the carpet for promoting heavy, overbuilt, and ultra-expensive gear that 99% of us dont need. Everest is real and the dangers are real but honestly, how many of us get the chance to find out first hand? Just like most large companies tell us that we need certain equipment to be safe and comfortable, we really can do with less; a lot less.
birdog,
Who fault is it if someone buys a heavy, overbuilt, and ultra-expensive piece of gear - the person who is selling it or the person who is buying it? I don’t think anyone put a gun to a hikers head and said you must buy this gear over a more reasonable price piece of equipment that did the same job.
The equipment to travel lightweight or ultra lightweight was also offered too during the 1990’s. An average hiker could have bought all his gear and travel just as light weight or lighter than Jardine for about the same amount of money. Jardine also to make his equipment spent nearly 40 hours doing it. To someone who is not working, spending 40 hours to make your own gear may not mean much. If your most hard working average American worker that same 40 hours equals to about a weeks of your pay that was spent making gear that has no warrantee, nothing backing it up.
Wolf
Wolf - 23000
08-12-2009, 11:34
I'm with Wolf-23000, Ray Jardine is the worst hiker of all time and quite possibly the cause of global warming, swine flu and Lindsay Lohan.
Yahtzee,
I never said Jardine was the worst hiker of all time but I do think he should have written his book better.
Wolf
High Altitude
08-12-2009, 19:16
It doesn't matter if his ideas where good/bad, original or not. Ray's book let lots of people know about his ideas of carrying less, lighter weight gear, quilts, tarps, make your own gear, umbrellas, running shoes vs boots, stealth camping etc....
What this did is spark an entire community of backpackers to start looking at new ways to do things. Whether his ideas are original or not doesn't make any difference. It is not his ideas but the affect his book had on a lot of people that is important.
Ray's book was definitely a turning point in backpacking history with respect to the masses thinking about going ultralight or using other types of gear or techniques compared to the norm.
So many backpackers gained interest in changing their ways from the standard 50lb pack with full grain leather boots because of that book. Websites and forums about ultralight weight backpacking where started because of that book.
Terrible ideas or not he opened up the eyes of a LOT or people. This is his accomplishment, not his ideas themselves. Although I will say more people started to carry tarps or make their own gear because of his book.
He didn't do crap besides write a book just like many other hikers have done. It wasn't even a very good one either - neither one of us like his ideas. It strange, that so many people will agree he didn't have the greatest ideas but yet they still want to give him credit for lightweight backpacking and yet he didn't even travel all that light himself. :-?
I personal found his book next you useless other then the town information in the back which is why I bought the book in the first place.
tlbj6142
08-14-2009, 10:53
Had Ray taken another 2-3 years before he published his first PCT book, he would have never been given "credit" as the same knowledge would have spread on the new and improved Internet (thanks to Al Gore :D).
The reason he is often given credit for expanding the popularity of lightweight hiking is because he wrote his ideas down. In our world, the written form get's "credit" well before the any type of oral communication, just ask the patent office.
Regarding alcohol stoves, Ray never even talks about them in any of his books, except for the most recent version of his book (in which he makes just a passing reference). He is a proponent of cook fires. I also found his most recent edition significantly more humble and "tolerable" (he actually says a few nice words about trekking poles!!!!) than any of the previous versions (I've read all three, PCT, BB, and TL) and it seems to contain significantly less of the "wackiness" that was found in the earlier versions ("If I think hard, the mosquitoes will leave me alone!"). In short, the current editions is what BB should have been once he removed all of the PCT specific stuff that was in the earliest versions.
English Stu
08-31-2009, 15:56
His Beyond Backpacking book worked for me, yes there are some personal ideas in it but I put that down to his style of writing and a publisher not up in the subject to challenge some of the statements .Encouraged by Bill Brysons book I wanted to experience the AT and never had any heavy gear so with RJ's book it gave great advice and I started off light
Gear has moved on now.I have now retired my Golite Breeze and Tarp in favour of a ULA Conduit and Henry Shires Tarptent but I will be forever grateful to RJ's book.
From a Brits point of view I was unaware of the other people being mentioned so his book spread the going light idea over here,and I would guess to other Europeans and Antipodeans as well.
Jack Tarlin
08-31-2009, 17:41
Good comment, Stu.
Especially the last bit. Wonder how many thousands of Whiteblaze folks had to go look up the definition of "Antipodean". :D
flemdawg1
08-31-2009, 17:58
Good comment, Stu.
Especially the last bit. Wonder how many thousands of Whiteblaze folks had to go look up the definition of "Antipodean". :D
We ain't gotta look it up. That rascist bastage hates Podeans. ;)
tlbj6142
09-01-2009, 09:32
Back on-topic, RJ finished his NoBo thru-hike a couple days ago.
Midway Sam
09-01-2009, 14:25
Good comment, Stu.
Especially the last bit. Wonder how many thousands of Whiteblaze folks had to go look up the definition of "Antipodean". :D
That would be a +1 here.
Let's keep it going...
Ray completed the AT
http://www.rayjardine.com/news/index.htm
7.5# pack.
Tha Wookie
09-05-2009, 16:27
A point to note.... Ray is not a speed demon like many think. To quote him directly, "Slow is Fast."
The speed of the journey is not the focus, but a result of his particular style of operation. He taught me how to slow down..... and my journeys tend to accelerate. It's kind of like the old saying that if you have limited hours to cut a cord of wood, you're best off sharpening your blade for most of that time instead of wailing into it in a dull rush.
The corn pasta is not mush if you cook it right. Everyone overcooks it.... including me. But I have hit it right many of times.... Although I hardly eat it now... it's still good, but yes not the super food some people tout is as. if you want a super food.... eat moringa!!!!
best,
Nate
He promoted it as being better than wheat pasta even though it tasted like mush. When it was pointed out that it had the exact same benefits, he claimed (w/o example) manufactures had changed the way it was produced. Yeah right.:rolleyes:
He was instrumental in teaching hikers how to use a public restroom and ordering from a restaurant - i.e. insist on a paper plate and use your own silverware! One arm backpack! Genius! Umbrellas were used long before he promoted them as well. He did recognize Grandma G in at least one of his books and would wonder why he stopped if she isn't mentioned in later editions. God bless Ray- despite his ego, methods, paranoia and exaggerations he has still managed to play a part in inspiring folks to go lighter.
Rays rep in the climbing community is pretty much the same. He introduced questionable methods for the purpose getting to the top quicker and easier, which he feels is better. His attitude always seemed to be Faster is smarter and slower is stupid and that of course :o, doesn't suit me. Rat racers on the other hand - tend to have more admiration. Proving how fast you can be done with a trail (taking short-cuts and setting your alarm so as not to take more than a 5 min break) has never been a goal of mine-- despite my speed records. ;)
People love and root for the Squeakys and Scott Williams (in general) because they are unassuming. The WD, WF, FB and RJs get ribbed because they are not.:)
High Altitude
09-06-2009, 00:05
Congrats to RJ.
It is great that he still takes the time to get out and do a thru hike.
Let's keep it going...
Ray completed the AT
http://www.rayjardine.com/news/index.htm
7.5# pack.
tlbj6142
09-06-2009, 10:42
A point to note.... Ray is not a speed demon like many think. To quote him directly, "Slow is Fast."I don't think he was after any sort of speed record. Even his own blog states he slowed down quite a bit at the end...
For the first 2/3 of my trip I hiked reasonably high-mileage days, about on par with Jenny’s and my AT hike of 93. But then I started thinking, “I'm missing a lot of what the experience has to offer.” So I slowed down in order to enjoy the rest of the hike all the more. I started sleeping in until 5:30 am, and quitting at 7:30 pm. I hiked hut-to-hut through the Whites, and from then on I starting taking zero days at some of the towns along the way. I didn’t have time to do this from day-1, but for the last 1/3 of the trip I sure had fun.
Rockhound
09-06-2009, 11:05
For one thing, he did more to change the footwear that we wear when we hike than anyone else. I think 80% of us have reaped the benefits of that.
He has also designed a lot of gear and companies have used his ideas to change the way packs, tents, tarps, etc are now made. (less bells and whistles for one thing)
Not only in backpacking, he also invented "friends" i believe in the rock climbing sport. (they are used all over the world in sport climbing and do a lot to save the rock for others)
A true "free thinker", he has also been to the south pole, climbed some big mountains, and i think he even paddled across the Atlantic!
I can only wish i would've done half as much!
If you only paddled 1/2 way across the Atlantic you'd be screwed.
The corn pasta is not mush if you cook it right. Everyone overcooks it.... including me. But I have hit it right many of times.... Although I hardly eat it now... it's still good, but yes not the super food some people tout is as. if you want a super food.... eat moringa!!!!
best,
Nate
I like some of Jardine's ideas. The emphasis on being a minimalist (as opposed to gear wonkery that is common to light weight backpacking).
Making miles by walking all day rather than walking fast.
And others.
However..sorry, with a name like Magnanti (southern as opposed to northern) there is no way in hell that I will eat corn pasta. ;)
I tend to agree with Mags.
RJ changed my way of thinking about backpacking and really challenged my thought process on just how much crap I need when I'm out in the woods.
True, I bought most of my gear, but I find that my basic gear list isn't all that far off from what RJ recommended to begin with.
I hike in compression shorts and a synth polo shirt usually (I like the collar to keep the sun off my neck).
I carry a 2400 cu in pack.
I prefer a Tarp to a tent, although I just ordered a HH Hammock.
I prefer a quilt to a bag.
I like Soda bottles for my water.
I dehydrate most of my food (section hiker).
I carry a wind shirt with a hood and a pair of shell (rain) pants, along with a 12 ounce insulated parka with a hood (PBL).
I prefer Smartwool socks, an alcohol stove, and a poncho to an umbrella, however, the principal is the same, even if it took me a lot longer ($) to get there than just reading his book.
Simple is better than complex and leave unnecessary stuff at the house.
Tha Wookie
09-07-2009, 22:21
Hot Sauce. Cheese. Mama mia after 27 miles it tastes like.... ok still not great.
:D
I like some of Jardine's ideas. The emphasis on being a minimalist (as opposed to gear wonkery that is common to light weight backpacking).
Making miles by walking all day rather than walking fast.
And others.
However..sorry, with a name like Magnanti (southern as opposed to northern) there is no way in hell that I will eat corn pasta. ;)