View Full Version : Posting hiker whereabouts
Jack Tarlin
08-04-2009, 12:57
Don't want to create a ruckus here, but I'd really curious about getting other opinions on this, especially from women hikers.
There are several on-going threads at the moment where people post the names, dates, and whereabouts of various 2009 thru-hikers they've encountered.
I understand that if someone has an on-line diary or journal that tells the world pretty much where they are and what they're up to, well that's one thing. But am I the only one out here that thinks people should ASK hikers first before publicly posting their exact whereabouts, itinerary, destinations, etc.?
At the very least, I think folks should use some care with posting information about women hikers, especially solo women hikers. I have personally known women hikers who had "admirers" meet up with them in some pretty unusual and isolated locations, and they did NOT appreciate this attention, especially from folks they'd never heard of, and in several cases, were totally weirded out by it.
I simply don't think it's a particularly good idea to give too much information about where people are on the Trail, unless they OK your doing so. After all, if a poster says they encountered Susie So-and-So at XYZ road crossing at noon on August the first, it's not too tough to figure out where she'll likely be at day's end or the next morning.
In short, I think a little prudence and common sense is in order here.
Your thoughts?
Pacific Tortuga
08-04-2009, 13:05
I believe Jack is right. In this day and age of instant info there are too many demented individuals out there that take advantage of it. SO SAD & SICK.
The wishes of individual hikers regarding publishing their locations should be respected in most instances. People should not assume it's okay to broadcast others whereabouts. Images of hikers shouldn't be posted without their permission either, but that may be a separate issue best addressed in another thread.
WhiteBlaze should formulate a policy to guide posting of information to its Hiker Locator Forum and perhaps elsewhere. This policy should appear in the opening post of a sticky.
Of course, like most things related to the AT, how well this policy works would depend upon people being aware of it and respecting it.
Many people new to WhiteBlaze probably haven't given much if any thought to the issue and everyone would benefit from this issue being called to their attention or reminded of it. Sometimes people tend to forget that anyone with Internet access could see what's posted here.
This is a toughie. I guess I would agree and suggest that we air on the side of caution, especially when it comes to females. I think if someone has a Trailjournal, or the like, or has previously posted their whereabouts on Whiteblaze or any other public repository, then posting their whereabouts would seem kosher. But if someone is just out there, hiking away, without posting their whereabouts or making a public stink about their doings, I'd just as soon not mention them in a post. (Although, I have probably been guilty of this a time or two) In the very least, wait several days (at a minimum) before posting when and where they were seen. I know several hikers, not just females, who have taken great umbrage with having their location posted on the web.
Information wants to be free, the saying goes, but that doesn't mean we can't suppress some info in the name of personal privacy.
Jack Tarlin
08-04-2009, 13:46
That being said, the folks at Hiker's Welcome were gratified to hear that Minnesota Smith is rapidly approaching Glencliff.
It gives them time to prepare. :eek:
(And for the humor impaired, that was a joke).
Lone Wolf
08-04-2009, 14:06
is he "welcome" there?
Ladytrekker
08-04-2009, 14:10
I know in reading some trail journals I could probably locate anyone I wanted too, they openly list who by trail name they are with and where they are at. I plan paddles and hikes with two different groups I am with and I make the groups private because people do not need to know where I park my car, when my house is empty, when and where I am on the trail. Our group also requires that a pic of the member and if you do not reply or go on a trip within 3 months of joining we remove you from the group and this is all done to protect us from harm but still be able to communicate and make plans online. I totally agree with Jack about this.
max patch
08-04-2009, 14:32
This is the 2nd or 3rd year you've mentioned this Jack (and for the 2nd or 3rd year I'll chime in that I agree with you 100%) but nothing ever changes. Someone meets a thru on a day or section hike and for some reason feels compelled to mention it on this website. Mods should immediately delete such posts.
This is the 2nd or 3rd year you've mentioned this Jack (and for the 2nd or 3rd year I'll chime in that I agree with you 100%) but nothing ever changes. Someone meets a thru on a day or section hike and for some reason feels compelled to mention it on this website. Mods should immediately delete such posts.
I totally agree with your assessment, Max, but I do retain some sympathy for those who make the mistake of posting hiker info. It is thoughtless error, not malice, which spurs those on who post such info. Despite the internet's ubiquity in most people's everyday life , society is still determining the boundaries of what is and is not acceptable info to post to the web. While it may seem obvious to some, the freedom with which others post their whereabouts make the issue a bit murkier than it first appears. It is probably that way with a lot of info that is on the fringes of what is "personal". If this is in fact the third year Jack has posted a similar "conversation starter" that is a good thing. We could be, in effect, helping to make that determination. I guess I would judge tweeting a location to be worse than a daily trip report which would be worse than listing all those you saw on your week-long trek, etc., etc. The more time between the sighting the post the better.
I guess what I am saying is that the internet is still relatively new and, while we figure out what is kosher to post, I choose to give those who err a bit of slack.
Question: What if some claiming to be a hiker's parent or partner comes on WB and asks if anyone has seen their child or partner? Do we ignore that or delete any replies? It's a tough call.
Blissful
08-04-2009, 15:15
I am in agreement that women esp shouldn't post their itinerary in open forums, etc., nor should others. Since journals can be updated at various times, it doesn't mean you can tell where they will be at or what shelter, etc. But this can be tough too when writing in shelter logs. There are still some elements of risk.
So are there any statistics about hikers being stalked on the internet, or burglarized because people got on the internet and determined the homeowner or tenant was out backpacking??? It seems that almost all of the violence that I have heard about on th AT has been random opportunity.
Frick Frack
08-04-2009, 16:40
I was amazed last year on our SOBO the handful of people we met who knew us from following our Trailjournal. Nothing like walking up to a total stranger who calls you by your name, knows when you started, knows where you are from, etc. It was kinda flattering but my wife & I were hiking together and it might be uncomfortable if we were solo. I'm guilty of exploiting a few on WB that I delivered to the trailhead or passed on day hikes but will refrain from doing so in the future. Not mentioning names is 100% a good idea but honestly weirdo's could find out 100 times more information about anyone on the trail by reading the registers than reading WB.
Our Personal Safety & Awareness Tips for A.T. Hikers (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/safetyawareness) state, "Be wary of posting your location or itinerary on on-line journals in real time. A password-protected blog or site can offer more protection." By extension, anyone concerned about the safety of A.T. hikers should avoid posting real-time locations or planned itineraries of hikers without their permission.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
max patch
08-04-2009, 17:30
So are there any statistics about hikers being stalked on the internet, or burglarized because people got on the internet and determined the homeowner or tenant was out backpacking??? It seems that almost all of the violence that I have heard about on th AT has been random opportunity.
Back when WF published journals a young man developed a crush on a female hiker from reading her journal. He figured out where she would be and "met" her at a road crossing one weekend. Really freaked the young lady out. After that WF "held" updates to journals for a week or so to make it more difficult for someone to guess where a hiker would be on a particular day.
As far as robberies, a month or so ago a well known blogger "tweeted" to his followers that he was heading out for a week long vacation. Came home to an empty house. Said it didn't even cross his mind at the time, but in retrospect his tweet was a stupid thing to do.
max patch
08-04-2009, 17:32
. It is thoughtless error, not malice, which spurs those on who post such info.
I agree...
Question: What if someone claiming to be a hiker's parent or partner comes on WB and asks if anyone has seen their child or partner? Do we ignore that or delete any replies?
Ordinarily someone close to a hiker should have the ability to contact the hiker directly and should not need to be inquiring here. There may be occasions when it would be appropriate to post an inquiry about a hiker's location. Such posts and the best way to respond to them might need to be determined on a case-by case basis by administrators.
Not mentioning names is 100% a good idea, but, honestly, weirdos could find out 100 times more information about anyone on the trail by reading the registers than reading WB.
Good reason to consider carefully what's posted in shelter registers. However, there's a big difference between WhiteBlaze and shelter registers. It takes more ambition and time to access information in registers.
Big Dawg
08-04-2009, 17:58
Right on, Jack.
When I was hiking and posting on trailjournals, one of my friends was reading it and decided to surprise me, and was able to figure out when I would be at Newfound Gap within about a 1 hour wait at the gap !
It was a welcome sight because it was my friend and I was so happy -
...but I am sure some freak-a-zoid might be able to figure it out too if they are familiar with the area....so it would be better if only your friends know where you are at exactly, especially a solo female.
Homer&Marje
08-04-2009, 18:21
Don't want to create a ruckus here, but I'd really curious about getting other opinions on this, especially from women hikers.
There are several on-going threads at the moment where people post the names, dates, and whereabouts of various 2009 thru-hikers they've encountered.
I understand that if someone has an on-line diary or journal that tells the world pretty much where they are and what they're up to, well that's one thing. But am I the only one out here that thinks people should ASK hikers first before publicly posting their exact whereabouts, itinerary, destinations, etc.?
At the very least, I think folks should use some care with posting information about women hikers, especially solo women hikers. I have personally known women hikers who had "admirers" meet up with them in some pretty unusual and isolated locations, and they did NOT appreciate this attention, especially from folks they'd never heard of, and in several cases, were totally weirded out by it.
I simply don't think it's a particularly good idea to give too much information about where people are on the Trail, unless they OK your doing so. After all, if a poster says they encountered Susie So-and-So at XYZ road crossing at noon on August the first, it's not too tough to figure out where she'll likely be at day's end or the next morning.
In short, I think a little prudence and common sense is in order here.
Your thoughts?
That depends on where they're hiking. If they are in some states it might be considered part of a complete itinerary having the entire internet tracking where you are with a spot tracker and a hand held gps in your.....pack.
Don't mean to cause a ruckus though, just my thoughts that in some states it might be beneficial :D
Cannibal
08-04-2009, 18:24
It certainly is not a difficult thing to find a hiker on the AT. I was 'found' on three separate occasions by people who did not look or smell like hikers because they weren't. I didn't even keep a trail journal past the first month.
I agree that maybe it shouldn't be broadcast, but I don't think anybody should fool themselves into thinking they are safe and secure because folks don't post their locations on WB and the like.
If you folks really live with this kinda unfounded fear, I feel sorry for ya. There are crimes on the AT, but they are crimes of oppertunity. How do you folks sleep in a shelter with 6 other folks if you are afraid of them. You don't know who they are or their intentions.
Clyde
Jim Adams
08-05-2009, 01:42
YOU PEOPLE ARE SO PARANOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You all better just stay home and leave the hiking to those with common sense.
geek
Jim Adams
08-05-2009, 01:46
I believe Jack is right. In this day and age of instant info there are too many demented individuals out there that take advantage of it. SO SAD & SICK.
Exactly...thats why I carry those 3 guns!:D
Besides if you don't tell anyone where you are going, where you are or how long you will be out there you will avoid those rediculous $25,000 rescues.
geek
Lybarger
08-05-2009, 05:42
While this thread makes sense, the worst incident on trail this year was when a sheltermate punched the New Zealander and knocked him off the trail.:mad:
Sailor (The other one)
08-05-2009, 05:59
If you folks really live with this kinda unfounded fear, I feel sorry for ya.
YOU PEOPLE ARE SO PARANOID!
Jack's right.
It is neither unfounded nor paranoid. For years I worked with people on county, state and federal probation. It was remarkable how much research some of them did in order to commit crimes that included break-ins and armed robbery. They were quite sophisticated. Using the internet to gather information is a natural for them.
YOU PEOPLE ARE SO PARANOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
You all better just stay home and leave the hiking to those with common sense.
geek
Ditto. And I say this as a solo female hiker.
So please don't look to this Moderator to enforce the paranoia.
Seriously, if someone is having a problem with a stalker, then that person needs to change their trail name, not give it to random strangers, not allow people to take photos of them, and remove themselves from the area. (I say this as the mother of a girl who was stalked when she was 16, so this is not a theoretical issue for me.) Do NOT depend on the prudence of law enforcement and the general public to protect you from an idiot.
For the rest of us, who are not being stalked, don't worry, be happy. Enjoy your hike.
I think the recent comments are only touching on one of the issues involved with posting someone's whereabouts. Of course, safety is a concern. However, posting the when's and where's of someone on the trail can be a matter of personal privacy to some. I know a few hikers that were livid when they found out their location was posted to the web. Why were they livid? I have no idea, it was none of my business.
Homer&Marje
08-05-2009, 07:00
Exactly...thats why I carry those 3 guns!:D
Besides if you don't tell anyone where you are going, where you are or how long you will be out there you will avoid those rediculous $25,000 rescues.
geek
I don't carry 3 guns but usually 2 knives:D:D:D:D:D:D
PARANOID
kayak karl
08-05-2009, 07:01
i don't really care if everybody knows where i am. my journal is updated daily if i can and i post my spot page on forums. (not WB, can't deal with the banter). when ever i meet someone on the trail or take pic's of them i ask their permission to post in journal. many have asked me if they can post that they saw me (mt. squid, tenn viking, swamp fox and rocky).
in the end i agree with Jack. there has to be respect for others privacy.
note: on hiker hq the artillery experts figured out that with the spot tracking
they could hit me with a bucket of chicken from 6 miles away.:D
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Lone Wolf
08-05-2009, 07:02
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
wow. that's deep. you have a way with words
Lone Wolf
08-05-2009, 07:06
so all you thru-hikers types should never sign registers in shelters, trailheads either.and don't your stupid picture taken at the ATC. the boogie man will find you. but carry a firearm just in case cuz there have been quite a few murders and assaults over the years
Homer&Marje
08-05-2009, 07:11
so all you thru-hikers types should never sign registers in shelters, trailheads either.and don't your stupid picture taken at the ATC. the boogie man will find you. but carry a firearm just in case cuz there have been quite a few murders and assaults over the years
But bring and Ultra lite gun because you wouldn't want to not impress all of the Uber Super Ultra Light hikers on the trail....imagine one of them skinny ones attacking you?
My hiking stick is stronger than most UL'ers....HAHAHAHAHAHA
Just so everyone knows I'm in Attleboro, MA sitting at my computer...please...stalk me:D Chaco?:rolleyes:
Lone Wolf
08-05-2009, 07:16
Our Personal Safety & Awareness Tips for A.T. Hikers (http://www.appalachiantrail.org/safetyawareness) state, "Be wary of posting your location or itinerary on on-line journals in real time. A password-protected blog or site can offer more protection." By extension, anyone concerned about the safety of A.T. hikers should avoid posting real-time locations or planned itineraries of hikers without their permission.
Laurie Potteiger
ATC
and the ATC shouldn't be taking photos of all the hikers and having them date it with their names on it. the headquarters would be a great place to figure out someone's wherabouts
There is a long list of reasons why a person might not want information about themselves posted on the internet. Why would a person assume that they can post this information, including photo's, without permission? What happpened to respect for privacy? Honestly, if someone did that to me or mine.......%^#@)>>and they would deserve it.
and the ATC shouldn't be taking photos of all the hikers and having them date it with their names on it. the headquarters would be a great place to figure out someone's wherabouts
Getting your picture taken in Harpers Ferry is voluntary. If you are worried about stalkers...just say no.:rolleyes:
max patch
08-05-2009, 08:22
I just got back from a day hike from Unicoi to Neels and I met 3 thru hikers!!! "Bear", "Hobbit", and "Juicy Lucy". They were having a great time!!!
So what. How is that bit of info interesting or worthy of discussion to anyone?
I just got back from a day hike from Unicoi to Neels and I met 3 thru hikers!!! "Bear", "Hobbit", and "Juicy Lucy". They were having a great time!!!
So what. How is that bit of info interesting or worthy of discussion to anyone?
You are missing the point. If you mention to them that you would like to post thier trail names and whereabouts and they approve, no problem. Wether it is of interest or worthy of discussion is irrelevant. Otherwise, there are reasons a person may not want thier whereabouts known. One reason deals with security. Why in the world you would think you have the right to determine a question of security for someones daughter, wife, sister, son, whatever is beyond me. If a person is uncomfortable having this information put out, who are you to disregard thier wishs?
max patch
08-05-2009, 08:55
Anyone who posts someone elses whereabouts without permission should use their real name as their screen name and post their correct address as location.
max patch
08-05-2009, 08:57
You are missing the point. If you mention to them that you would like to post thier trail names and whereabouts and they approve, no problem. Wether it is of interest or worthy of discussion is irrelevant. Otherwise, there are reasons a person may not want thier whereabouts known. One reason deals with security. Why in the world you would think you have the right to determine a question of security for someones daughter, wife, sister, son, whatever is beyond me. If a person is uncomfortable having this information put out, who are you to disregard thier wishs?
You missed my point - perhaps I wrote poorly. I agree with what you say here.
The simple solution here may be to just wait a few days before posting hiker sightings.
Wise Old Owl
08-05-2009, 09:09
This thread is a little over the top for security minded folk like myself, unless you can express specific examples of occurances of dead beat husbands chasing female hikers down the trail with restraining orders after reading a location post on WB.......... Well I'm not going to go there. - come on folk's think, the thread is a little paranoid.
Keep in mind Neandrathals and Cavemen don't make time to read. And have no clue what a trail name is.
note: on hiker hq the artillery experts figured out that with the spot tracking
they could hit me with a bucket of chicken from 6 miles away.:D
Now that's Funny KK! another WB Jem.
BobTheBuilder
08-05-2009, 09:10
Not getting stalked is just another in the long line of benefits to being fat and bald. Man, I got it good!
Wise Old Owl
08-05-2009, 09:15
Not getting stalked is just another in the long line of benefits to being fat and bald. Man, I got it good!
Diliverance...... Squeal like a .......:p
I make it a point to track down or stalk folk who graffitti shelters.....not.
so now when i see hikers out on the trail i'll need to get a release of information darn that hipaa law
boarstone
08-05-2009, 09:35
As most here know, I resupply for the "100 mile wilderness" section here in Maine. I know who is getting their resupply/when/whether nobo or sobo. I make it my mission to not post ANYTHING in reference to these folks unless asked. I have been asked in the past to send e-mails out to family to let them know the hiker in question is at such n' such a point on the trail and all is well. But I will not take it upon myself to offer this info up just because they are hiking and I have been in contact w/them. Those little portable electonic devices can share info awful fast when in contact to the outside.
Jack Tarlin
08-05-2009, 10:24
Thanks for all your opinions, it was good to hear from so many people.
Quick comment: To those who made glib comments about people who were too timid or who were "living in fear", well all I want to say is that I personally know of several people who were either stalked on the Trail, or had surprise visits on isolated parts of the Trail from total strangers. And these folks had NOT posted their whereabouts on Trailjournals or anywhere else. And sure, one can tell from Trail registers the general whereabouts of a hiker, bu this is very different from someone posting on line something like "So-and-so was at XYZ road crossing at three PM and was looking forward to getting to ABC Mountain shelter this evening".
In short, too much posted information does indeed have the potential to create problems, especially for women hikers, so I do not think these fears or groundless or that they should be belittled. After all, most hikers on the Trail (especially women hikers) are leery about giving out too much information about themselves, whether or not they are hiking alone, or where they plan to camp that night. Why then, would anyone want this information plastered onto the Internet?
As several folks have stated, it's very easy to give these trip reports, without giving out too much information. It's really easy to say "Just returned from the Connecticut section and ran into.........." Or better yet, take two seconds and ask people how they feel about posting their names. This is not hard to do. But publicly stating where and when you ran into individual hikers, especially single women, is not a good thing to do, and absolutely has the potential to create problems.
saimyoji
08-05-2009, 10:59
This thread is a little over the top for security minded folk like myself, unless you can express specific examples of occurances of dead beat husbands chasing female hikers down the trail with restraining orders after reading a location post on WB..........
actually, very recently some of us were contacted regarding something very similar to what you said. of course i won't give you details. but it does happen.
d'shadow
08-05-2009, 13:45
The main reason people share information is that there are friends and family who want to know where their loved ones are and someone mentioning that person with a group of hikers is good news. Not everyone keeps a Trail Jourals going or reports on it in a regualr fashion. Also, other thru hikers are always looking for their friends and where they are. Really, the hiking community looks out for their own and most people end up hiking with a group. I cannot imagine any of the guys ignoring a fellow female hiker who may be concerned with someone who is bothering her.
Jack Tarlin
08-05-2009, 13:56
There are any number of reasons why people choose to "share" this information.
But fact is, people's families generally have a pretty good idea of where their loved ones are at any given time.
But sharing this information with the world at large doesn't necessarily seem like a wise thing to do. I've encountered folks on the Trail who I wouldn't want to be around or wouldn't want to be camping with. There have been times when I've been reticent about sharing my plans or probable end-of-day destination with folks I've met. Why on earth, then, would I potentially want this information shared with thousands of people I don't know?
And I suspect that a lot of women hikers would feel even stronger about this.
Jim Adams
08-05-2009, 14:35
You are missing the point. If you mention to them that you would like to post thier trail names and whereabouts and they approve, no problem. Wether it is of interest or worthy of discussion is irrelevant. Otherwise, there are reasons a person may not want thier whereabouts known. One reason deals with security. Why in the world you would think you have the right to determine a question of security for someones daughter, wife, sister, son, whatever is beyond me. If a person is uncomfortable having this information put out, who are you to disregard thier wishs?
You are missing the point!
If you are out in the public then it is a matter of public record and anyone can shoot your photo or write about it anytime they want to...1st Amendment!
geek
You are missing the point!
If you are out in the public then it is a matter of public record and anyone can shoot your photo or write about it anytime they want to...1st Amendment!
geek
Sorry Jim, you are absolutly wrong about that. If you are a public figure, you are fair game. Otherwise, a signed release is needed to use your photo image.
Cannibal
08-05-2009, 14:46
If you are out in the public then it is a matter of public record and anyone can shoot your photo or write about it anytime they want to...1st Amendment!
geek
I imagine the trial town local papers often publish pictures of gangs of hikers during the season. They don't have to have permission to publish pictures of people taken in public settings. Now, a crazy person has a good idea what the 'target' looks like, what they are wearing, who they are likely to be accompanied by, plus the date and location of their where-abouts.
I still agree with the original thought here; there really isn't any reason to add to the available resources of a deranged person. However, if one chooses to hike the AT I don't think they have any reason, or right, to expect privacy. They should hike the CDT if that's what they're after IMO.
Cannibal
08-05-2009, 14:47
Sorry Jim, you are absolutly wrong about that. If you are a public figure, you are fair game. Otherwise, a signed release is needed to use your photo image.
Only if they are identified by name.
DrRichardCranium
08-05-2009, 14:49
hmmm, I've been thinking about blogging on postholers.com if I do a thruhike in 2010. This thread is giving me mixed feelings about it. Most journals mention things like: "I met with PeeWee & Slingshot today" or something. We'd have to stop doing that, because of a few isolated incidents??
That's pretty sad that we can't talk about ordinary encounters with our fellow hikers because of a small number of nutcases.
As most here know, I resupply for the "100 mile wilderness" section here in Maine. I know who is getting their resupply/when/whether nobo or sobo. I make it my mission to not post ANYTHING in reference to these folks unless asked. I have been asked in the past to send e-mails out to family to let them know the hiker in question is at such n' such a point on the trail and all is well. But I will not take it upon myself to offer this info up just because they are hiking and I have been in contact w/them. Those little portable electonic devices can share info awful fast when in contact to the outside.
Same here. The shuttle service we operate in the SNP area has knowledge of hiker whereabouts all the time. We routinely promise clients anonymity. Though I may recount an interesting anecdote from the distant past, I would not divulge the current whereabouts of a hiker on the internet or anywhere else that the public might see.
Only exceptions: Law enforcement, search/rescue, and family desperate to know how so-and-so is faring. On the latter point, without divulging locations, I did let a worried mom who inquired here or at TJ who hadn't heard from them know that her son and friends were OK. I then had the opportunity to run into them later in the week and urged the son to phone home.
We have never been asked by a hiker to communicate with family or friends on their behalf. With the proliferation of cellphones on the Trail today and other 21st century gizmos, I should think they could easily do that themselves.
hmmm, I've been thinking about blogging on postholers.com if I do a thruhike in 2010. This thread is giving me mixed feelings about it. Most journals mention things like: "I met with PeeWee & Slingshot today" or something. We'd have to stop doing that, because of a few isolated incidents??
That's pretty sad that we can't talk about ordinary encounters with our fellow hikers because of a small number of nutcases.
Just delay your posts by a week or so if you can. Most journals wind up at least a few days behind anyway.
I imagine the trial town local papers often publish pictures of gangs of hikers during the season. They don't have to have permission to publish pictures of people taken in public settings. Now, a crazy person has a good idea what the 'target' looks like, what they are wearing, who they are likely to be accompanied by, plus the date and location of their where-abouts.
I still agree with the original thought here; there really isn't any reason to add to the available resources of a deranged person. However, if one chooses to hike the AT I don't think they have any reason, or right, to expect privacy. They should hike the CDT if that's what they're after IMO.
You are wrong. Unless you are participating in a public event and inviting attention, or if a photo does not actualy identify you because of distance or clearity, or you are part of an actual news story, the paper is obligated to get your permission.
You are missing the point!
If you are out in the public then it is a matter of public record and anyone can shoot your photo or write about it anytime they want to...1st Amendment!
geek
This is the problem, tho. The 1st Amendment only outlines the relationship of the people to the federal government (and through incorporation, the states). However, it does not and ought not define the relationship between citizens. There are reasons for circumscribing the govs ability to supress free speech and freedom of speech is truly one of the benefits of being American. However, the relationship of one citizen to another has a completely different dynamic and using the 1st Amendment as a shield to protect yourself from having to act decently and respectfully towards your fellow citizen is not in the spirit of the 1st amendment.
Cannibal
08-05-2009, 15:23
You are wrong. Unless you are participating in a public event and inviting attention, or if a photo does not actualy identify you because of distance or clearity, or you are part of an actual news story, the paper is obligated to get your permission.
I'll cede to your greater knowledge, but it does leave wondering how all these pictures of groups of people keep ending-up in the newspaper. Must be the intern's job to go chase all those people down at the airport and get their signature. :rolleyes:
Jack Tarlin
08-05-2009, 15:31
This argument is getting pretty silly.
Does someone technically have the right to transmit or publish the names and locations of people one encounters in a public place?
Sure they do.
But is this a particularly wise thing to do?
Probably not.
Merely because one might be entitled to a certain "right" does not mean its necessarily prudent to exercise this right.
Bleating about the Constitution here is pretty ridiculous; the framers of the Bill of Rights had never heard of Internet stalking.
One might have the legal "right" to potentially put other people at risk by printing personal information about them, but this doesn't mean that it's a proper thing to be doing.
I'll cede to your greater knowledge, but it does leave wondering how all these pictures of groups of people keep ending-up in the newspaper. Must be the intern's job to go chase all those people down at the airport and get their signature. :rolleyes:
Groups of unidentified people end up in the paper because they can not really be positively identified as a specific person, or because they are part of a news story. If you are a person who was part of an evacuation of an airport, you are part of a news story. Even a story about "long lines waiting to by tickets" for a sporting event or movie or concert can be construed as a new story. The established press can get away with stuff the private citizen can be held libel for. It's not the same as showing a photo of someone and giving out personal details about the person.
max patch
08-05-2009, 15:44
I think its an obvious invasion of privacy as well as potentially dangerous for a few (esp female) hikers.
But for those who disagree with me -- I'm still waiting for someone to explain how posting that they saw thruhiker Joe Blow at Neels Gap yesterday while on a day hike is information that is interesting, important, or worthy of comment. Seems like a waste of time writing it and a waste of time reading it. You saw a hiker on the trail? Wow. BFD.
I think its an obvious invasion of privacy as well as potentially dangerous for a few (esp female) hikers.
But for those who disagree with me -- I'm still waiting for someone to explain how posting that they saw thruhiker Joe Blow at Neels Gap yesterday while on a day hike is information that is interesting, important, or worthy of comment. Seems like a waste of time writing it and a waste of time reading it. You saw a hiker on the trail? Wow. BFD.
It's just meaningless gossip.
Cannibal
08-05-2009, 15:54
Groups of unidentified people end up in the paper because they can not really be positively identified as a specific person, or because they are part of a news story. If you are a person who was part of an evacuation of an airport, you are part of a news story. Even a story about "long lines waiting to by tickets" for a sporting event or movie or concert can be construed as a new story. The established press can get away with stuff the private citizen can be held libel for. It's not the same as showing a photo of someone and giving out personal details about the person.
I understand, but given the current conversation, would not a story about "This year's AT hikers give boost to local businesses" be full of shots of hikers mulling around the town square and have the hikers considered as "part of a news story"?
My point is, as someone pointed out, these deranged people have plenty of time on their hands and are more than willing to go to the online sites of these newspapers pouring through articles looking for pictures or stories about the person they are stalking. If they already have a good idea of a person's appearance, it wouldn't be too difficult to pick them out of a crowd.
There are plenty of ways to find people that are hiding. Finding a person doing something like hiking the AT would be a piece of cake with or without sites like this one. For the little trail towns the AT passes thru, AT hikers are fairly high profile. Not exactly a good place to seek solitude and obscurity.
Lone Wolf
08-05-2009, 15:55
talk about a non-issue.....
I understand, but given the current conversation, would not a story about "This year's AT hikers give boost to local businesses" be full of shots of hikers mulling around the town square and have the hikers considered as "part of a news story"?
.
Yes, it would be a news story and the paper would have a right to publish those photo's. They would not have a right to identifiy millyfrommilwauki and publish that she is hiking nobo tommorow unless they spoke to her and asked for an interview. Nor could they reference her in any other way without permission. If the photo was of her as an individual not in the overall group they could not use it without her permission.
Why the heck is privacy such a hard concept for people to grasp?
I am surprised The Weasel has not contributed to this thread.:-?
Jester2000
08-05-2009, 17:56
Question: What if some claiming to be a hiker's parent or partner comes on WB and asks if anyone has seen their child or partner? Do we ignore that or delete any replies? It's a tough call.
If it's an emergency I'd tell them to get in touch with ATC.
Back when WF published journals a young man developed a crush on a female hiker from reading her journal. He figured out where she would be and "met" her at a road crossing one weekend. Really freaked the young lady out.
A similar thing happened to a friend of mine, and the level to which it freaked her out would be a lesson to all of the people who think this thread is rife with paranoia.
The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
And sharks with hands.
so all you thru-hikers types should never sign registers in shelters, trailheads either.and don't your stupid picture taken at the ATC. . .
. . .unless you want to. Unfortunately, you don't get to choose what someone else decides to post about you online.
You are missing the point!
If you are out in the public then it is a matter of public record and anyone can shoot your photo or write about it anytime they want to...1st Amendment!
That you can do something does not necessarily mean that you should. When people ignore the second part of this, laws end up being passed that curtail the first.
. . . But for those who disagree with me -- I'm still waiting for someone to explain how posting that they saw thruhiker Joe Blow at Neels Gap yesterday while on a day hike is information that is interesting, important, or worthy of comment. Seems like a waste of time writing it and a waste of time reading it. You saw a hiker on the trail? Wow. BFD.
This is the best post on this subject I've read, at least as far as whiteblaze threads are concerned. I understand mentioning other hikers if you're writing a trail journal online (and waiting a few days before posting it). I don't really understand the purpose of the "hiker sighting" threads. I have occasionally gone on them and mentioned the volume of hikers in town, but not names. I figure that hikers are already in touch with anyone who would give a damn where they are.
The Supreme Court will often issue rulings that restrict individual rights if there is a greater good for society involved. I just can't figure out what value these kinds of threads possess that make it okay to, at the least, give someone a little less privacy, and at the worst potentially put someone in danger.
Jim Adams
08-05-2009, 23:40
Sorry Jim, you are absolutly wrong about that. If you are a public figure, you are fair game. Otherwise, a signed release is needed to use your photo image.
Not as long as it is considered a public avent. The fact that you are participating in public, in view of any and everyone does not require a signature. ie: the people in the background of a television broadcast smiling, waving and making gestures. If the photo or info comes from an enclosed and private scene or environment then that is different. In public...you are a matter of public record.
geek
There is a big difference between being at a public event and just being in public. Read my post #62.
If you are waving and smiling for the TV camera you are in effect, giving permission to use your image.
Sorry, I have to disagree with you that "being in public" gives someone the right to use your image.
The Weasel
08-06-2009, 01:55
I've been 'hooked' into the thread, but I'll take a pass at the ball anyhow. Jack is (as Jack often is) half right.
This is a fairly complex issue, since it's where the First Amendment (free speech) and the Right to Privacy (a 'penumbral' right arising from a number of rights in the Bill of Rights) intersect. Generally, one's image maynot be reproduced without permission. That includes photographs "out in public." It especially prohibits commercial use of one's image without consent. That's where the right of privacy protects us. On the other hand, when a photography necessarily is taken as part of 'public speech' - which includes those used in connection with a legitimate public issue (i.e. "news"), the First Amendment essentially trumps it. On (as Ronald Reagan famously put it) the third hand, photographing of people that is unduly invasive, with only minor or even non-existent 'news' value, can rise to the level of harassment and stalking, which can be criminal matters.
In other words, as most good lawyers would say, "It depends."
TW
Frick Frack
08-06-2009, 08:45
.....I'm still waiting for someone to explain how posting that they saw thruhiker Joe Blow at Neels Gap yesterday while on a day hike is information that is interesting, important, or worthy of comment. Seems like a waste of time writing it and a waste of time reading it. You saw a hiker on the trail? Wow. BFD.
This comment comes from someone who said a cougar spotted around Hog Pen Gap was "45 years old" and "rough around the edges".....and that is not a waste of time writing it or reading it???? What "interesting, important, or worthy of a comment is that? Some people are intrested in reading hiker whereabouts just as some are intrested in acting the fool. I still think, like JT started this thread, that names should be omitted unless consent is given. Who are we, forum users with nothing better to do, to assume someone wants their whereabouts to be known? Just use some common sense.....It is all fun and games until someone gets hurt.
max patch
08-06-2009, 09:10
I just got back from REI and I bumped into John Doe while waiting in the checkout line. He doesn't have a trail name yet, but he is planning a thru hike in 2013!!!!!
I just got back from REI and I bumped into John Doe while waiting in the checkout line. He doesn't have a trail name yet, but he is planning a thru hike in 2013!!!!!
lmao:banana
I just got back from a day hike from Unicoi to Neels and I met 3 thru hikers!!! "Bear", "Hobbit", and "Juicy Lucy". They were having a great time!!!
So what. How is that bit of info interesting or worthy of discussion to anyone?
Well, it would be interesting to know how "Juicy Lucy" got her trailname.