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Don H
08-05-2009, 11:21
I'm considering buying the NeoAir and would like to hear from anyone who has used it for an extended time such as on a thru or long section hike. I'm am concerned about durability over extended use.
Thanks, Don H

ShelterLeopard
08-05-2009, 11:55
Good question- I saw the Big Agnes that looks similar- it it?

And my friend Pogo seems to have had no trouble with his- I saw him in PA on his thru tihs year and it was holding up well. The only thing is that it seems to take a lot of time to inflate, and a lot of breath. And it crinkles a lot if you move around in your sleep, which can be kind of annoying. But, whatever.

Survivor Dave
08-05-2009, 12:19
I'm considering buying the NeoAir and would like to hear from anyone who has used it for an extended time such as on a thru or long section hike. I'm am concerned about durability over extended use.
Thanks, Don H

Don,
They were having some issues with the NeoAir. It seems that some of them were having the baffles break and there were large bubbles in different areas. I think they have worked out the kinks.

They are nowhere to be found in Atlanta. Not even a display model.

SouthMark
08-05-2009, 12:35
Used one for three weeks in Maine in June. No problems on shelter floor or in tent. You have to be awfully sensitive to notice the crinkle sound. It is really comfortable.

sweetpeastu
08-05-2009, 14:35
I got to lay on one last weekend at Mt. Rogers. You could feel it reflect your own body heat back to you....toasty. I dunno anything about its durability. I have heard about issues with the baffles. If you buy one, buy it from someone who will take their gear back if it malfunctions. Otherwise, I say hold out and wait a bit before buying one. Best of luck to ya!

Survivor Dave
08-05-2009, 14:36
Don,
They were having some issues with the NeoAir. It seems that some of them were having the baffles break and there were large bubbles in different areas. I think they have worked out the kinks.

They are nowhere to be found in Atlanta. Not even a display model.

I took the risk, we'll see. I found one at Outside World in Dawsonville, Ga. and tried it. Man.....It's really comfortable. I hope they fixed the problem. This one that I bought had just came in with a notice that it was the new version.

I'm selling my Prolite 4. There is a thread in the selling gear section.

Ladytrekker
08-05-2009, 15:43
I use one and really like it. I like the way you can control the air to make it hard or soft for good sleeping. Hope it holds up, because it is not something I can replace often. I was also thinking of getting a very lightweight closed cell pad to use for sitting on having lunch, etc and use it under my neoair at night so that nothing punctures it.

pyroman53
08-05-2009, 17:10
I was also thinking of getting a very lightweight closed cell pad to use for sitting on having lunch, etc and use it under my neoair at night so that nothing punctures it.

I do this with my BA IAC. Use the ThinLight Pad (2 oz. for 1/8 in. or 4 oz. for 3/8 in.)
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html?id=spIk4I9o:204.124.92.254

Also, when it gets real cold you can put the ThinLight on top of the pad and you'll extend the temp range of the mattress.

Jester2000
08-05-2009, 17:13
Also, when it gets real cold you can put the ThinLight on top of the pad and you'll extend the temp range of the mattress.

For the NeoAir you'd want to put any extra insulation under it, or the heat reflective design won't work properly.

Survivor Dave
08-05-2009, 17:16
For the NeoAir you'd want to put any extra insulation under it, or the heat reflective design won't work properly.

I use Tyvek under the tent, but what did you mean as far as insulation?

Jester2000
08-05-2009, 18:09
I use Tyvek under the tent, but what did you mean as far as insulation?

The previous poster, pyroman, mentioned putting an insulation layer (his Thinlite) on top of the pad for extra warmth. I thought I should mention that it should be put under the pad (if you're going to do that -- it's not necessary, but would be an extra layer of insulation if it were very cold out).

If you choose to carry extra stuff that you want to use as extra insulation, it needs to be put under the pad because the NeoAir itself is not an insulated mattress. What it does have is a reflective barrier material inside it that bounces your body heat back up at you rather than down into the ground. If you put an insulation layer between you and the NeoAir, the reflective material never gets any of your body heat to work with.

Survivor Dave
08-05-2009, 18:24
The previous poster, pyroman, mentioned putting an insulation layer (his Thinlite) on top of the pad for extra warmth. I thought I should mention that it should be put under the pad (if you're going to do that -- it's not necessary, but would be an extra layer of insulation if it were very cold out).

If you choose to carry extra stuff that you want to use as extra insulation, it needs to be put under the pad because the NeoAir itself is not an insulated mattress. What it does have is a reflective barrier material inside it that bounces your body heat back up at you rather than down into the ground. If you put an insulation layer between you and the NeoAir, the reflective material never gets any of your body heat to work with.


Good deal. So the Tyvek under the NeoAir is all I need. I thought about taking a 72"X20" roll of Reflectix, but it kinda defeats the purpose of saving the weight on the NeoAir.

gravityman
08-05-2009, 18:38
Uh... the insulative foam pad will work below or above the neo air. One works on radiated hear loss, the other on conductive heat loss. But it doesn't matter too much which works first. However, in some respects putting the conductive heat loss material first (the foam) you do a better job as less heat gets to the neo air that needs to be reflected back to the foam pad and thus less is loss to conductive heat losses in the neo air. Alternatively if an radiative heat is absorbed in the foam pad it will be re-radiated (think black body) and be perserved by either reflecting back from the neo or absorbed by you (and thus keeping you warm).

Gravity

summermike
08-05-2009, 18:39
I've consistently had durability issues with the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core; they won't hold air after a few months, sometimes just a few weeks. I'm tired of waking up on the ground but the NeoAir is a huge price jump for me.

Could someone who's used both the Big Agnes insulated Air Core and the NeoAir compare them?

Jester2000
08-05-2009, 18:51
Uh... the insulative foam pad will work below or above the neo air. One works on radiated hear loss, the other on conductive heat loss. But it doesn't matter too much which works first. However, in some respects putting the conductive heat loss material first (the foam) you do a better job as less heat gets to the neo air that needs to be reflected back to the foam pad and thus less is loss to conductive heat losses in the neo air. Alternatively if an radiative heat is absorbed in the foam pad it will be re-radiated (think black body) and be perserved by either reflecting back from the neo or absorbed by you (and thus keeping you warm).

Gravity

If you say so -- you're the engineer. I'm just going by what the Cascade Designs rep told me at EORA this weekend. I would presume she knows best practices as far as this goes, but then again she's not a scientist or anything.

Jester2000
08-05-2009, 18:53
I've consistently had durability issues with the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core; they won't hold air after a few months, sometimes just a few weeks. I'm tired of waking up on the ground but the NeoAir is a huge price jump for me.

Could someone who's used both the Big Agnes insulated Air Core and the NeoAir compare them?

I would suspect that if you're having durability issues with the Insulated Air Core, you'll have even more with the NeoAir. How are you using and storing your Air Core?

summermike
08-05-2009, 20:39
Using it in a tent and in shelters. It always has a Tyvek between it and the floor of the shelter. It's stored in its stuff sack.

Why would there be more durability issues with the NeoAir?

Alli
08-06-2009, 00:16
Using it in a tent and in shelters. It always has a Tyvek between it and the floor of the shelter. It's stored in its stuff sack.

Why would there be more durability issues with the NeoAir?

Probably because it weighs 10 ounces less than its Big Agnes brother? Sure you lose a bit of weight by having no insulation but some of that weight probably came off from the material itself as well, which could mean the NeoAir is less durable.

summermike
08-06-2009, 01:16
I'd be interested in knowing if anyone has had that experience with it yet.

Dogwood
08-06-2009, 03:31
you are going to have atough time finding anyone who hs used it on athru-hike because the Neo Air only arrived on the outdoor scene in Spromg 09.

summermike
08-06-2009, 03:43
Doesn't have to be on a thruhike.

SouthMark
08-06-2009, 09:46
In June while on the AT in Maine I met a SOBO young man from Australia who was using one and thought that it was great.

pyroman53
08-06-2009, 10:48
For the NeoAir you'd want to put any extra insulation under it, or the heat reflective design won't work properly.

I am also not a scientist, but my theory is that, the air in any mattress becomes the temp of the air (and ground). This creates a temp differential between the air in the mattress and your body. At some point, as temp drops in the air mattress, the reflective material fails to sufficiently reflect your body heat, and much of your body heat goes towards trying to warm the air in the mattress (probably about the listed minimum temperature for the mattress). Thats when it's time to put the foam pad on top of the mattress. Putting the foam pad under the mattress will insulate it from the cold ground, but not the cold ambient air. If the air mattress is losing heat to the ambient air, your body would still be trying to warm that cold air in the mattress.

That's my theory, but I value your challenge of it. I agree the NeoAir, with its reflective interior layer, may warrant a different approach.

Jester2000
08-06-2009, 11:21
. . . That's my theory, but I value your challenge of it. I agree the NeoAir, with its reflective interior layer, may warrant a different approach.

I believe that your way is the way to go for air mattresses other than the NeoAir (although I must say that gravityman's post has made me question what I've been told by the reps).

Summermike -- the NeoAir is made with a thinner grade of nylon. This is unimportant if the leaking you're dealing with is coming from around the nozzle. Sounds like you're treating your pad well, so you may have a defective nozzle or a small puncture that needs to be patched. I asked about use because we get an awful lot of thru-hikers in here who throw their pads down on shelter floors, or cowboy camp without a groundcloth -- not the case with you, and definitely not the sort of thing to do with a NeoAir.

summermike
08-06-2009, 12:02
Haven't heard anything coming from the nozzle but to be honest I haven't been able to locate the source of any of the leaks. I figured it was happening because I weigh 225. I don't know if there's a weight limit for either the BA or the NeoAir but even if there is I doubt they test the pad supporting that weight for several months.

Ladytrekker
08-06-2009, 12:33
I do this with my BA IAC. Use the ThinLight Pad (2 oz. for 1/8 in. or 4 oz. for 3/8 in.)
http://www.gossamergear.com/cgi-bin/gossamergear/thinlight.html?id=spIk4I9o:204.124.92.254

Also, when it gets real cold you can put the ThinLight on top of the pad and you'll extend the temp range of the mattress.

Thanks for the tip I like that one, it would protect but be light. They are out of stock right now but will watch for it.

gravityman
08-06-2009, 13:30
I am also not a scientist, but my theory is that, the air in any mattress becomes the temp of the air (and ground). This creates a temp differential between the air in the mattress and your body. At some point, as temp drops in the air mattress, the reflective material fails to sufficiently reflect your body heat, and much of your body heat goes towards trying to warm the air in the mattress (probably about the listed minimum temperature for the mattress). Thats when it's time to put the foam pad on top of the mattress. Putting the foam pad under the mattress will insulate it from the cold ground, but not the cold ambient air. If the air mattress is losing heat to the ambient air, your body would still be trying to warm that cold air in the mattress.

That's my theory, but I value your challenge of it. I agree the NeoAir, with its reflective interior layer, may warrant a different approach.

This is all true for conductive heat loss(or convective where you set up air flows in the air matress because of the rising warm air and sinking cold air). The neo works mainly by reducing the radiative heat lose, but it also must deal with the conductive as well, which is the reason they have the 'triangular core' even though they don't tell you that's what it's there for. It insulates the different areas from each other to reduce conductive heat loss. If you look for images it shows there are two different spaces above and below a center barrier. This seperates the cold air on the ground from the warm air near you. With the reflective barrier in there, it does a very good job of keeping radiative heat loss low, which apparently is a big part of heat loss in an air mattress like this...

Kerosene
08-06-2009, 13:47
Here are the results of some short-term field testing: http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Pads%20and%20Air%20Mattresses/Therm-a-Rest%20Neo%20Air%20Pad/

Survivor Dave
08-06-2009, 14:54
Here are the results of some short-term field testing: http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Pads%20and%20Air%20Mattresses/Therm-a-Rest%20Neo%20Air%20Pad/


I tried your link and you have to register. Here's a direct link:

http://www.backpackgeartest.org/reviews/Sleep%20Gear/Pads%20and%20Air%20Mattresses/Therm-a-Rest%20Neo%20Air%20Pad/Test%20Report%20by%20Stephanie%20Martin/

Survivor Dave
08-06-2009, 15:36
Campsaver.com has the NeoAir at 20% off for today only!!!!:banana:banana(says until 8/7/09 actually)
I should have waited and bought it today instead of yesterday.....:mad:
http://www.campsaver.com/itemmatrix.asp?GroupCode=thr0039&MatrixType=1&gclid=CIno0YDjj5wCFRI7xwodgQEpYg (http://www.campsaver.com/itemmatrix.asp?GroupCode=thr0039&MatrixType=1&gclid=CIno0YDjj5wCFRI7xwodgQEpYg)

.

seabrookhiker
08-16-2009, 21:00
I have a Big Agnes Insulated Air Core mummy, and a NeoAir. Actually two, I got the short and the next larger size.

The NeoAir kept me fairly warm and about as comfy as the Big Agnes, with one exception. I sleep on my side, and usually end up with my butt all the way to the edge and my knees at the other edge. No big deal on the Big Agnes. On the NeoAir, I ended up compressing the edge so much that my hip started getting cold because it was nearly at the ground. The tubes running the other way on the Big Agnes definitely work better for me as a side sleeper.

The weight difference is worth enough to me to put up with side squishing, most of the time. I use a Gossamer Gear sit pad, and I stuck that under the NeoAir to keep me warm when I compressed a side too much. Works fine.

Don H
08-17-2009, 15:07
Received my NeoAir last week only two days after I ordered it from REI. I inflated it which took about 35 breaths and let it set for two days with no noticeable deflation. It seems very comfortable but fragile. I'll try it on my next camping trip. The instructions say to extend the range to a four season mattress place a Z Rest under the NeoAir for a combined R-value of 3.8.

Pootz
08-17-2009, 15:30
I have 2 friend that have the Noe Air and they love them. One is a thru hiker and has not had a problem from Georgia to the Whites.

10-K
08-17-2009, 15:46
I have a neoair story....

I bought a neoair for my PA section hike and it held up well, no problems. I used it again a week or so ago on a short section hike near Erwin. Again, no problems - it's very comfortable and I like it alot.

On the other hand....

I bought one for my wife (she went on the section hike in Erwin with me) and from the very first use it would not stay inflated. She had to blow it back up 3-4 times during the night. No way she put a hole in it, it went from the box it came in to her pack.

Based on how much I like mine I'm willing to give it one more shot so I'm going to return it for a replacement. But, and this is a big but....it would really suck to have it blow out on a long hike and have to carry it around until you could figure out what to do with it. It's too expensive to just toss in the trash so there is a chance you'd wind up lugging the thing around for a week or 2 until you could get a repair kit or exchange or something.

I don't give up easy... I'm on my 3rd Hyperflow. Man, those things really suck.....

max patch
08-17-2009, 17:37
20th century technology at 21st century prices.

summermike
08-17-2009, 17:55
The tubes running the other way on the Big Agnes definitely work better for me as a side sleeper.

That's a valuable piece of information for me, thanks, seabrookhiker.

spirit4earth
08-17-2009, 18:37
I've consistently had durability issues with the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core; they won't hold air after a few months, sometimes just a few weeks. I'm tired of waking up on the ground but the NeoAir is a huge price jump for me.

Could someone who's used both the Big Agnes insulated Air Core and the NeoAir compare them?

my BA IAC has worked perfectly for several outings. i do want to try a Neoair because of the weight savings, though. i will keep using the BA, though, because it's comfortable, warm, and reliable!

FamilyGuy
08-17-2009, 22:53
I don't give up easy... I'm on my 3rd Hyperflow. Man, those things really suck.....

That's hilarious!

FamilyGuy
08-17-2009, 22:54
my BA IAC has worked perfectly for several outings. i do want to try a Neoair because of the weight savings, though. i will keep using the BA, though, because it's comfortable, warm, and reliable!

Interesting. I had two BA IAC and both blew leaks after a few uses. So for me - no so reliable. Unfortunately the only pad reliable has been closed cell.

Don H
08-18-2009, 08:30
10-K, Was the NeoAir you had a problem with one of the earlier models? Seems like there were quality issues early on.

Jayboflavin04
08-20-2009, 09:39
I am still gonna wait. I am kinda in the market for a new sleep pad. I am a side sleeper and need the xtra cushion on my hips. So it is between Neo Air and a BA aircore. I saw a floor model at a outfitter and didnt like the crinkly fabric of the TR Neo. Thanks for the post and reviews folks.

le loupe
09-27-2009, 21:09
I am still gonna wait. I am kinda in the market for a new sleep pad. I am a side sleeper and need the xtra cushion on my hips. So it is between Neo Air and a BA aircore. I saw a floor model at a outfitter and didnt like the crinkly fabric of the TR Neo. Thanks for the post and reviews folks.

Just got my NeoAir- found it on Ebay for $73.00 including shipping, new & still in the box.

Seems great- I'm not worried about the crinkliness. I think my sleeping bag will mute it sufficiently.

I am a little disappointed that it doesn't seem to self-inflate very well. By "very well" I mean at all.

Kerosene
09-27-2009, 21:30
I am a little disappointed that it doesn't seem to self-inflate very well. By "very well" I mean at all.That's because the NeoAir isn't a self-inflating pad. I'm not sure why that is, other than perhaps the complex baffling doesn't lend itself to self-inflation. Frankly, I value the comfort and weight over self-inflation.

le loupe
09-27-2009, 22:00
That's because the NeoAir isn't a self-inflating pad. I'm not sure why that is, other than perhaps the complex baffling doesn't lend itself to self-inflation. Frankly, I value the comfort and weight over self-inflation.

That's cool. I'm ok with that.

It's just that no one really comes out and says it. You are left to assume...

tammons
09-28-2009, 09:34
There is no way for it to self inflate, because it has no foam in it.

Wise Old Owl
09-28-2009, 10:07
Don,
They were having some issues with the NeoAir. It seems that some of them were having the baffles break and there were large bubbles in different areas. I think they have worked out the kinks.

They are nowhere to be found in Atlanta. Not even a display model.

My brother who is 250 lbs - ran into this in one night camping with coleman pads. It happens.

Wise Old Owl
09-28-2009, 10:14
I am still gonna wait. I am kinda in the market for a new sleep pad. I am a side sleeper and need the xtra cushion on my hips. So it is between Neo Air and a BA aircore. I saw a floor model at a outfitter and didnt like the crinkly fabric of the TR Neo. Thanks for the post and reviews folks.

No need to wait, I have the Ba insulated aircore and its a mummy cut, Its great on the ground and awesom for taking some of the curve out of the hammock.

You do not fill it up all the way, and unless you have a lot of weight (See above post) you will be very happy with the neo air.

D-wreck
09-28-2009, 16:30
I had the Big Agnes Insulated Air Core on my AT thru last year. For the last couple weeks on my shortened PCT thru this year I used the Neo Air. I found both very comfortable, I'm a side sleeper too.

The crinkle factor wasn't an issue for me on the Neo Air. I wish I would have gotten the smallest length tho (5 feet), it would have worked just fine with my pack under my feet (I'm 5'11"). The 6' version took up too much room in my tent.

I had the big agnes replaced 3 times, once before my thru and once in the middle. At Springer it was leaking again, so I took it back to REI for a full refund. Can't comment that the neo air is better in that regard, but I would definitely recommend against bringing it along in southern PCT. Other hikers reported leaks due to the abundance of pokey things in the desert.

Tipi Walter
09-28-2009, 18:02
I had the big agnes replaced 3 times, once before my thru and once in the middle. At Springer it was leaking again, so I took it back to REI for a full refund. Can't comment that the neo air is better in that regard, but I would definitely recommend against bringing it along in southern PCT. Other hikers reported leaks due to the abundance of pokey things in the desert.

I don't know about you guys out west, but the biggest blunder I see backpackers doing here in the southeast is strapping their Thermarests onto the outsides of their packs with little or no protection. And then they wonder how they got a pinhole. Or they'll blow it up in camp and toss it on the ground by the firepit and use it as a chair. Crazy. These things have to be protected. And not just inside a thermarest stuff sack, either. Briars will poke right thru a stuffsack. Wrap it first in a tarp(tent footprint)and then put it in the stuff sack and then strap it on the pack, or just put it inside the pack.

And then I see guys throwing it right on the ground for sleeping when they set up their tarps. Even a single layer tent floor won't offer enough protection, hence the need for a footprint double layer. After you've been thru about 18 leaky thermarests, you get a little rectal about the whole thing.

Franco
09-28-2009, 18:45
Good point Tipi Walter.
With the Neo (and other non inflatables...) you also need to remember that it will need to be re-inflated an hour or so after the initial time. (Boyle's law...) . I need about 3 full breaths with mine.

Another possible problem with mats is Felix Domesticus, those very cute things that run the house and like to scretch and knead.
Took me a long time to find a few mysterious tiny holes in my Prolite 3 ( stored under the bed...) only to eventually realise they corresponded to the paw size of the above resident menace.
Franco

jrwiesz
09-28-2009, 19:06
Good point Tipi Walter.
Another possible problem with mats is Felix Domesticus

They are good, in a stir-fry.:D

Skidsteer
09-28-2009, 21:21
Another possible problem with mats is Felix Domesticus, those very cute things that run the house and like to scretch and knead.


Excellent point. I had the same thing happen.

Field repairing a Thermarest in the middle of the night sucks just slightly less than sleeping on a deflated pad.

DAJA
09-28-2009, 22:06
I don't know about you guys out west, but the biggest blunder I see backpackers doing here in the southeast is strapping their Thermarests onto the outsides of their packs with little or no protection. And then they wonder how they got a pinhole. Or they'll blow it up in camp and toss it on the ground by the firepit and use it as a chair. Crazy. These things have to be protected. And not just inside a thermarest stuff sack, either. Briars will poke right thru a stuffsack. Wrap it first in a tarp(tent footprint)and then put it in the stuff sack and then strap it on the pack, or just put it inside the pack.

And then I see guys throwing it right on the ground for sleeping when they set up their tarps. Even a single layer tent floor won't offer enough protection, hence the need for a footprint double layer. After you've been thru about 18 leaky thermarests, you get a little rectal about the whole thing.

Good point Tipi... I often ponder this while use sleeve to convert my thermarest into a camp chair before going to bed... So here's a question open to all... What do you use for sitting around camp on?

Where I hike there are no shelters, and I don't particularly enjoy sitting on cold, hard and damp rocks and logs after a long day of hiking, especially in spring and fall...

I've seen people use spruce bows, but I'm not comfortable with damaging trees... I usually enjoy to kick back around camp during dinner and a few hours after reading before retiring for the night, and so far my thermarest in chair mode is the most comfortable option i've discovered... But I know i'm playing with fire and eventually will be left dealing with a deflated pad...

Looking for other options. Last week on a trip on the Fundy Footpath all the campsites where ocean front and I did build myself a great stone recliner with footrest and lined that with my compressor jacket but that soon got cold and uncomfortable, so I added my thermarest chair and was in heaven...

Suggestions?

Skidsteer
09-28-2009, 22:12
Suggestions?

A small piece of CCF pad(or full CCF pad if you carry it anyway)that can also be used as a pillow or footpad..

Some folks carry the tyvek covered shipping envelopes lined with bubble wrap.

DAJA
09-28-2009, 22:31
A small piece of CCF pad(or full CCF pad if you carry it anyway)that can also be used as a pillow or footpad..

Some folks carry the tyvek covered shipping envelopes lined with bubble wrap.

Yeah i've tried that but find I need some back support while reading... So i've begun working up a nylon strap sling that goes around my outstreched feet back around under my armpits to my shoulders... Gonna take some tweaking but may work... Thanks..

D-wreck
09-29-2009, 15:39
The tyvek mailing envelopes (without bubble wrap) also make a good stuff sack for the neoaire. Just be sure to offer payment for them first, I don't consider them free but included in the price of priority delivery.

I am always extremely careful with whatever air pad I use. Always inside the pack in a stuff sack and never on bare ground or bare shelter floor. Maybe I should make a gigantic tyvek envelope for it and slip the pad in all blown up? Stuff sack and protector all in one!

Tagless
09-29-2009, 21:22
Could someone who's used both the Big Agnes insulated Air Core and the NeoAir compare them?

I started my 09 thru hike with a BA Insulated Air Core and had problems with a slow leak near the blow up nozzle. My wife used the the same pad and had two pads leaks - same issue.

In Damascus I bought the NeoAir, used it the rest of my hike (4 months) and never had a problem. I absolutely love the NeoAir! By the way, I am a side sleeper as well and thought it was well suited for that.

Both are very comfortable. Based on my experience, the NeoAir may be less prone to leaking problems.

toegem
09-30-2009, 08:52
Snipped

Looking for other options. Last week on a trip on the Fundy Footpath all the campsites where ocean front and I did build myself a great stone recliner with footrest and lined that with my compressor jacket but that soon got cold and uncomfortable, so I added my thermarest chair and was in heaven...

Suggestions?

I carry a section of a (approximately a third of a full length) Ridgerest pad that is used as a pack liner, a place sit when the ground is cold or wet, it works great for fanning a stubborn fire and acts as a wind break for my stove when needed. When I tent I'll use it in the vestibule to raise my pack and boots off the ground during inclement weather.

Wise Old Owl
09-30-2009, 10:28
I am with Tagless - only my BA insulated hasn't leaked - incredibly comfortable

Don H
10-09-2009, 10:43
Just finished a section hike from NY/CT line to Dalton, MA and used my new Neo. After 7 nights of use I can say I like it and it is now my pad of choice. There were some nights when the temps got to just below 40 degrees but I never felt cold through the pad. The crinkling some notice didn't bother me and it was really no problem to inflate each night. One thing I did notice is that if the pad is not inflated to be fairly firm I tended to bounce off it at night. Full inflation gave me a firm and comfortable pad. I was careful with the pad, one night I slept in a shelter and used my tent ground cloth between the pad and bunk boards. I also was carful about clearing sticks and sharp rocks from under my tent site. I had no problems with leaks or loosing pressure.

ShelterLeopard
10-09-2009, 11:38
I considered buying the neoair now, but I think I'll bring my older thermasrest on my thru, and maybe get something new around Damascus or Hapers Ferry. Or maybe I'll just get it now. Damned indecision!!! I've heard the neoair is really good for deflecting body heat, and I'm starting in Feb. Hmmm.

Codger
10-09-2009, 11:52
Just tried mind on an 7 day section on the AT, Deep Gap to Fontana, last week , not sure at first but grew to really like it, better than the thermorest pro 4. The weight savings was great.

Bidwell
10-09-2009, 13:16
I started my 09 thru hike with a BA Insulated Air Core and had problems with a slow leak near the blow up nozzle. My wife used the the same pad and had two pads leaks - same issue.

In Damascus I bought the NeoAir, used it the rest of my hike (4 months) and never had a problem. I absolutely love the NeoAir! By the way, I am a side sleeper as well and thought it was well suited for that.

Both are very comfortable. Based on my experience, the NeoAir may be less prone to leaking problems.


Great to hear someone has used this pad for a decent chunk of a thru - I've used this pad for every trip I've gone on since I bought it April. Cant say enough good things about it. Yeah, it's expensive, but I love the weight savings and comfort.

Kerosene
10-09-2009, 13:57
I just received mine through REI.com and I'll be using it for 7 nights at the end of October (Erwin to Davenport Gap). I'll post my review, but for a weight-conscious side-sleeper, it should be perfect if it holds air!

mudhead
10-09-2009, 15:59
I'll post my review, but for a weight-conscious side-sleeper, it should be perfect if it holds air!

Looking forward to it. Pretty spendy, but still would enjoy your opinion.

Dogwood
10-10-2009, 00:01
You got one for a great price le loupe.

Kerosene, I never thought the term "self inflating" meant a damn thing. Always had to huff and puff a at least a few breaths into any supposed "self inflating" mattress. The NeoAir Shortie requires 12-15 of my breaths to fully inflate. It's my guess that the reg and 2/3 length require more breaths to fully inflate.

Tipi, yes, some great pts. As the instructions state, "this is an UL piece of gear." It needs to be treated accordingly with some TLC!

Just used my NeoAir shortie version on the Sierra High Route for 3 weeks. Loved how comfortable and light wt. it is. - 9 oz.!!! Some thoughts. It is very comfortable to this side and back sleeper. Never felt a rock, twig or anything under it while in the Sierras. Felt like I was sleeping on a cloud. Insulates from the ground exceptionally well, which is a good thing, but also means you may feel a noticeable temp difference in how coldw your bottom half is that's hanging off the pad if you use the shortie version like I do. I had to stuff more gear than usual under my bottom half that hung off the pad to compensate for the greater temp difference than with previous shortie pads that I've used. However, the good insulating value of the NeoAir may mean that you can get away more often without having to bring along another insulating pad.

It's also thicker than my previous 3 season inflatable pad, the Thermarest ProLite 3 shortie. The greater thickness of the NeoAir Shortie also translates to a greater drop off where the pad ends. This may make some feel like their lower bodies are hanging uncomfortably off a cliff. Of course, these aren't issues with the Neo Air in general but more that I used the shortie version and I'm a tall guy. I've found decent solutions to all these issues.

One more adjustment that I've had to make is finding just the right amount to inflate the thin shelled pad when I use it in my frameless ULA Conduit because the pad is folded in threes and partially inflated to give this pack a rigid virtual framsheet. If too much air is in the pad, when used to stiffen the pack, it takes up way to much volume in the pack. Again, this isn't an issue specifically with the NeoAir, but with how I use the pad with the pack. When I carry this pad in a pack w/ a framesheet and/or stays you can bet I will place it first in a protective bag.

The material seems wispy and light but I just used it by itself on the ground to sleep on granite slabs and ledges. It requires TLC but it's not exactly what I would call fragile. I have only used it on two hikes for a total of about 4 weeks on the trail so it's still too early to judge the NeoAir's long term duarbilty.

I've read other reports of it being crinkly. If it's inflated all the way I didn't observe this. Actually, I like that less air can be huffed and puffed into this pad to change how it feels under you.

I'm liking many of the features of this pad, but I've had to do some finetuning with the shortie version to get it to perform just the way I want. Other than the rather steep price, I'm comfortably happy and dreaming away with the NeoAir.

Tinker
10-10-2009, 00:13
For the NeoAir you'd want to put any extra insulation under it, or the heat reflective design won't work properly.
I use a Big Agnes Air core mummy, and when it gets cold I put a ccf pad on top of it. I really don't care how cold the air in the mattress is as long as it isn't against my body. Putting insulation underneath wouldn't necessarily keep all the air volume in the pad warm (or is my common sense faulty)?
I guess you're wondering, "Doesn't he use a hammock?" Not always. Sometimes I hike with another person.

BrianLe
10-10-2009, 13:14
Shelterleopard, I plan to start in late Feb too, and I'm bringing a 72" long ("regular") neo-air, plus Gossamer Gear ccf thinlight pads --- a 1/8" pad underneath and a 1/4" thinlight on top, plus the backpadding on my GG pack (a 2/3 GG "nightlight") pad will extend the top thinlight to cover my whole body.

I had this exact setup down to just under 20 degrees F a few days ago, and slept very comfortably. Of course various factors could make this (maybe even a lot) different for you --- metabolism, humidity, wind, temp added by whatever shelter, clothing you're wearing, etc, but I'm confident that I'll be comfortable down well into the teens and at least "survive" into the single digits this way.

I bought my neo-air via the Gossamer Gear website (price was about the same everywhere), and ordered the thinlight pads from them at the same time (no extra shipping costs that way). The 1/8" thinlight on bottom is partly to reduce the temperature drop-off gradient from the ground, i.e., so that the air in the pad is a bit warmer, plus to help protect the pad from abrasion and anything poking up. On nights that don't seem as cold I'll put both ccf pads underneath for that latter reason. The 1/4" thinlight is to beef up the overall R-value of the combination.

One thing I like about the thinlights is that I can more easily tune my total padding weight by mailing one or even both of these home as the trip progresses. I'm guessing I'll keep the 1/8" thinlight throughout, however, to help protect the neo-air --- or maybe even the 1/4" thinlight for that. My 1/8" is 62g (2.2 oz), and the 1/4" is 99g (3.5 oz). Don't ask me why the double-thickness pad is less than double the weight, that's just what they scale out at (!).

Kerosene
10-10-2009, 15:24
The NeoAir Shortie requires 12-15 of my breaths to fully inflate.Only took me 8 breaths, but they were big breaths!


Insulates from the ground exceptionally well, which is a good thing, but also means you may feel a noticeable temp difference in how cold your bottom half is that's hanging off the pad if you use the shortie version like I do. I had to stuff more gear than usual under my bottom half that hung off the pad to compensate for the greater temp difference than with previous shortie pads that I've used.

The greater thickness of the NeoAir Shortie also translates to a greater drop off where the pad ends. This may make some feel like their lower bodies are hanging uncomfortably off a cliff.Interesting observations. Thanks!

Dogwood
10-10-2009, 20:17
I'm glad to hear someone might be able to use my ramblings. Just drop a quarter in the Church of WhiteBlaze donation box on the way out the door!

So, BrianLe That's how you sleep in those temps? No sleeping bag?

BrianLe
10-10-2009, 23:44
"So, BrianLe That's how you sleep in those temps? No sleeping bag?"

There's some thinking to the effect that padding under you and insulation above you aren't tightly linked --- i.e., that you can have a very warm bag and still be cold with inadequate ground insulation, and of course vice versa. That's the context in which I didn't list my full sleeping kit, but FWIW it was a 20F WM Ultralite model sleeping bag, BPL cocoon pants, ID Hot Socks, thermawrap jacket (but I was warm enough I unzipped this in the night), layered thin balaclava and "peru" style hat over that. I slept in a single wall tent but opened the door wide as I was looking for the coldest possible temps to try out my planned gear for a late Feb start.

So many factors make "what's warm enough" a very individual experience, so that data like this ("I was warm at x degrees with pad y") can only be used as rough clues, but indeed --- the more complete data the better I guess!

waldick
10-28-2009, 20:58
Just got back from a 3 day from Springer to Neels Gap. We had temps in the 30's on two nights and low 40's the other. We spent two nights in shelters, one in a tent. I used a ccf pad under the neoair just because i had it along. The neoair was great ! I was warm and comfortable. The other people there had either just a ccf pad or the self inflating pad.

The only complaint is the amount of air it takes to inflate the pad, but well worth the trade-off for comfort.

The other people did mention the crinkling sound it made when i rolled over, but when i slept in the tent, my tentmate didn't think it was too objectionable...

Bottom line: Expensive but worth the the great night's sleep on the trail...

Wil
10-28-2009, 21:34
The NeoAir Shortie requires 12-15 of my breaths to fully inflate. It's my guess that the reg and 2/3 length require more breaths to fully inflate.I'll let you know when I'm finished ...

What the full sized neo did for me, a restless- and for too much of the night a non-sleeper, was give me consistent good nights' sleep for reasonable weight (19 oz).

It also removes all worry about dragging parts of myself or my bag onto ground water in heavy rains (tarp user) as I toss and turn. I am on my own dry little island at night.

This is probably the first item I use that has _added_ weight to my pack, in 10 years; and I couldn't be happier.

Jester2000
10-29-2009, 11:01
I use a Big Agnes Air core mummy, and when it gets cold I put a ccf pad on top of it. I really don't care how cold the air in the mattress is as long as it isn't against my body. Putting insulation underneath wouldn't necessarily keep all the air volume in the pad warm (or is my common sense faulty)?
I guess you're wondering, "Doesn't he use a hammock?" Not always. Sometimes I hike with another person.

There was a fair amount of debate concerning this earlier in the thread. My comment was in reference to the NeoAir only, not Big Agnes products -- the NeoAir is a non-insulated pad that acts like an insulated pad based on reflected heat. Putting insulation between you and the NeoAir negates this property of the mattress. This is not true of other pads (like yours), and may not be true at all, but is what was told to me by Cascade Design reps at EORA.

Wise Old Owl
10-29-2009, 11:36
You got one for a great price le loupe.

Kerosene, I never thought the term "self inflating" meant a damn thing. Always had to huff and puff a at least a few breaths into any supposed "self inflating" mattress. The NeoAir Shortie requires 12-15 of my breaths to fully inflate. It's my guess that the reg and 2/3 length require more breaths to fully inflate.

Tipi, yes, some great pts. As the instructions state, "this is an UL piece of gear." It needs to be treated accordingly with some TLC!

I'm liking many of the features of this pad, but I've had to do some finetuning with the shortie version to get it to perform just the way I want. Other than the rather steep price, I'm comfortably happy and dreaming away with the NeoAir.

I haven't read the whole thread - this gets back to storage, if you have a self inflating mat you need to store it open and flat with some air in it.

I do the same for my BA insulated mat so I don't screw up the insulation inside, I am just not taking any chances here. I even store my tent support seperate and out so the cord in the middle doesn't stretch.

Kerosene
10-29-2009, 21:01
Verdict after four days with my shortie NeoAir: I wouldn't trade it for anything.

I can sleep on my side for hours at a time, or even on my back (although my snoring will wake me). It is soooo much better than the first- and second-generation Therm-a-Rests that there is no comparison in my mind.

Del Q
10-29-2009, 21:53
OK. Light Packs small Warm Comfy - my sons word Smooths-out rocks and roots when tenting Expensive Really like mine Cold is COLD Not a padd issue 100% Plan or dress accordingly or hike early

Don H
10-30-2009, 08:26
There was a fair amount of debate concerning this earlier in the thread. My comment was in reference to the NeoAir only, not Big Agnes products -- the NeoAir is a non-insulated pad that acts like an insulated pad based on reflected heat. Putting insulation between you and the NeoAir negates this property of the mattress. This is not true of other pads (like yours), and may not be true at all, but is what was told to me by Cascade Design reps at EORA.

Also the instructions that come with the pad say "to extend the range to a four season mattress place a Z Rest under the NeoAir for a combined R-value of 3.8."
So it seems the factory recommends insulation under the pad.

Jester2000
10-30-2009, 09:33
Also the instructions that come with the pad say "to extend the range to a four season mattress place a Z Rest under the NeoAir for a combined R-value of 3.8."
So it seems the factory recommends insulation under the pad.

Yeah, as do the company reps, so that's what I'm going with. Gravityman had some interesting theories on conductive/reflective heat loss, but I'm going to go with the company on this one.

ARambler
10-30-2009, 13:58
Yeah, as do the company reps, so that's what I'm going with. Gravityman had some interesting theories on conductive/reflective heat loss, but I'm going to go with the company on this one.

It sounds like Gravityman is looking for secondary factors (probably the company is also.) I used to think heat transfer was important (now I don't get paid for it and am happy to drink warm beer;)

Anyone who buys a $100 pad is going to put the foam pad on the ground to give the Neoair extra protection.

For those who like to argue on the internet, I think there are two secondary factors that say you should put the foam pad on the bottom. First, I think the Neoair spreads out your body heat over a wide area. The heat gets reflected in many directions, and the heated air can easily diffuse down (and across) the tubes. So if your hips and shoulders are 200 in^2 and the foam pad is on top, the Neoair insulates against say 201 in^2 of heat from the foam, and distributes what gets through to say 600 in^2 of cold ground. You are only using 200 in^2 of the foam. However, if the foam pad is on the bottom, you are using 600 in^2 of the foam pad which will make the system more efficient.

Second, reflective heat transfer is usually more effective at higher temperatures. I would expect to see a reflector below a stove than around a refrigerator. I doubt this is significant at these small temperature differences.

Third, I don't understand the Neoair-on-the-bottom logic.

I just got a small Neoair. It weighs 8.6 oz compared to 13.5 oz for my 2005 small Prolite 3:) Out of the box it is sticky, so it should not slide around.
Rambler

Gear To Go Outfitter
11-02-2009, 13:12
We are having an early Holiday Sale until Friday, Nov 6th, where everything in stock, including NeoAir Pads, is 20% off. Use Coupon Code HLDY09 to take advantage of this offer.

ShelterLeopard
11-03-2009, 00:21
Good to know, gear to go! Thanks.