View Full Version : Hundreds of thru-hikers may disagree
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1914857,00.html
Personally, I think it is another cop out for people to justify not exercising.
Golly gee..ya mean if I run 3 miles I CAN'T have a pizza ?!?!!
DUH!
"More calories out and less calories in" is how to lose weight at its most basic level. Pretty simple overall.
More than weight loss, exercise is important for overall health. Many people who are otherwise thin have no muscle tone and a higher body fat percentage than people who may be larger and exercise regularly.
Anyway... if you can't guess it, I disagree with this article. :)
But you just ate skinless chicken and broccoli.........:rolleyes:
I think the crux of the study they cited is that those who exercised more also ate more --for whatever reason -- as a reward or because it made them hungrier. LD hiking is not a proper measure because no regular person has 6-9 hours a day to exercise. A LD hikers metabolism by VA has got to be off the charts. So, really, the study doesn't say that exercise doesn't matter. It is, as you say, calories in and calories out. It just seemed from the study that those who exercised also ate more, cancelling out the weight loss effects of the exercise.
self-control is like a muscle: it weakens each day after you use it.Self-control is not like a muscle at all. Why would they say something this dumb? Or is an AYCE buffet like a charley horse? A fast like a torn muscle? Silly.
And since when does exercising a muscle makes it weaker?
output must be greater than input! simple.
there is a sign at my gym that says, "proper nutrition is 80% of your fitness goal!" unfortunatly most people put 100% effort into the workout and 0% into proper diet and nutrition! thats just poor math! :/
Mags met a healthy babe. Neener. Neener.
She got you doing pushups there punkin boy?
Next thing you know, he'll shave regularly and have a soul patch.
superman
08-08-2009, 08:27
Mags met a healthy babe. Neener. Neener.
She got you doing pushups there punkin boy?
Next thing you know, he'll shave regularly and have a soul patch.
When ever a guy makes a change there is always a woman "suggesting" it.:D
No sense even pretending you thought of it yourself.
About 3 and half years ago, I took up running to lose weight, get healthy and such.
I was about 25# overweight by the charts.
At first I didn't watch what I ate so my junk food consumption and consumption in general increased.
Still, I lost weight just very slowly and as the weight dropped -even more slowly.
I agree with the article's assessment that energy distribution such as LD hiking is the best way for a body to reach an optimal form.
But, most people can't work in this society and maintain that energy distribution profile.
Not only that we, in just a coupe generations ,have switch from eating "food to food products" which seem to increase appetite and craving rather than satisfy hunger and provide a health nutrient profile.
Overall I agree that just exercise will not fix your weight problem, but I think most people are looking for a quick fix so they can maintain the their Twinkie habit -I was.
It didn't work unless you're satisfied with losing slightly less than a pound per month on average.
To get shed of my last few extra pounds I've been limiting the amount of food products and generally food seems to be more satisfying without having to eat all the time.
Exercise is not the whole solution, but it's a critical part.
The article seems to suggest that since exercise by itself doesn't work well, its not worth the trouble.
That's a "junk food" approach to critical thinking.
Genetics has more to do with it than excersise does. Here's an example (hopefully won't regret this one) but during slavery the the owners would go out into the quaters and choose the strongest male and female and make them produce a child. After a few hundred years of this type of genetic manipulation we now have very strong black men who have excellent build and basically rule every sport known to man. At least in the States. Same goes for everyone though, and this generation is being exposed to more and more high sugars and empty calories where as the previous generation (WWII generation) ate very salt and fatty foods. Wake up early, don't skip breakfast, avoid fast food, work with your hands. . you'll be fine.
Genetics has more to do with it than excersise does. Here's an example (hopefully won't regret this one) but during slavery the the owners would go out into the quaters and choose the strongest male and female and make them produce a child. After a few hundred years of this type of genetic manipulation we now have very strong black men who have excellent build and basically rule every sport known to man. At least in the States. Same goes for everyone though, and this generation is being exposed to more and more high sugars and empty calories where as the previous generation (WWII generation) ate very salt and fatty foods. Wake up early, don't skip breakfast, avoid fast food, work with your hands. . you'll be fine.
How do you know that the genes selected were for "strong" rather than "likes to excersise a lot"?
El Toro '94
08-08-2009, 11:45
I'm with MAGS on this one, yes a thru hiker is not a realistic comparison because no one has 9 hours/day to exercise, but a couple of hours/day of intense exercise will. I went from 225 to 155 in the army, and I ate like a pig three meals a day. I did gain 10 or so back once basic and AIT were over, but stayed at 165 for 3 years just through morning and evening physical training. Of course we marched everywhere, but that was only 3 or 4 miles/day. If you run 3-4 miles and walk 3-4 miles every day along with 1/2 hour or so of strength training, you can pretty much eat what you like and keep the weight off.
Just Dan
08-08-2009, 14:17
Genetics has more to do with it than excersise does. Here's an example (hopefully won't regret this one) but during slavery the the owners would go out into the quaters and choose the strongest male and female and make them produce a child. After a few hundred years of this type of genetic manipulation we now have very strong black men who have excellent build and basically rule every sport known to man. At least in the States. Same goes for everyone though, and this generation is being exposed to more and more high sugars and empty calories where as the previous generation (WWII generation) ate very salt and fatty foods. Wake up early, don't skip breakfast, avoid fast food, work with your hands. . you'll be fine.
Have you researched this? Can you provide a source?
take-a-knee
08-08-2009, 14:54
http://www.time.com/time/printout/0,8816,1914857,00.html
Personally, I think it is another cop out for people to justify not exercising.
Golly gee..ya mean if I run 3 miles I CAN'T have a pizza ?!?!!
DUH!
"More calories out and less calories in" is how to lose weight at its most basic level. Pretty simple overall.
More than weight loss, exercise is important for overall health. Many people who are otherwise thin have no muscle tone and a higher body fat percentage than people who may be larger and exercise regularly.
Anyway... if you can't guess it, I disagree with this article. :)
Well, this is seldom the case, but you are flat-out wrong Mags. The article summed it all up in the last two paragraphs when it quoted Gary Taubes' book. People who eat lean meats and veggies (read Zone/Paleo Diets) and do interval type exercise (read Crossfit) don't have a weight problem... period.
The guy has belly fat because he has a poorly controlled insulin level, this is a direct result of WHAT he eats.
Have you researched this? Can you provide a source?Of course he can't. It's just racist crap. Slavery lasted 200 years in this country, not several hundreds. Not enough generations to make a significant difference, plus to affect genetics, sexual pairings would have to be very carefully controlled to make sure that each generation only mated with other controlled offspring, and that wasn't the case. Slaves lived in their own quarters. Plantation owners didn't have the inclination, time or resources to do what Mendeleyev did.
Wise Old Owl
08-08-2009, 17:06
I am not going to get into what I read above,
I spent a lot of money going to a very well known weight loss center, and kept if off thirty pounds or more for more than ten years. Three meals a day. a Orange or apple with breakfast or lunch, a fruit/oatmeal bar between meals and several vitamins a day. No exercise, no fasting In fact I actually ate more and there was a lot of lean breast of chicken involved for dinner. One on One meetings three or two times a week and it all really does come off, (quickly)
Genetics - hmmm no, other than huge changes to eating... well documented is the introduction of pork to Hawaii and they subsequent problems to the indigious people there.
L. A. Weightloss.
Of course he can't. It's just racist crap. Slavery lasted 200 years in this country, not several hundreds. Not enough generations to make a significant difference, plus to affect genetics, sexual pairings would have to be very carefully controlled to make sure that each generation only mated with other controlled offspring, and that wasn't the case. Slaves lived in their own quarters. Plantation owners didn't have the inclination, time or resources to do what Mendeleyev did.
It's not uncommon knowledge. Just go talk to a knowledgable historian. What? Did you try to google that and couldn't find anything? My family has letters, books, and writings from our ancestors even before they set sailed for the new world. Why would you call me a racist because I stated a fact?
I'm not racist man I don't have to say it either, I live it. I don't think you quite know who your talking too. The point was though that genetics plays a large role in how we manage weight and no single plan is applicable to a mass of people.
Well, this is seldom the case, but you are flat-out wrong Mags.
To quote the article " moderately strenuous activity like walking while carrying groceries."
And, safe to say, both you and I disagree with that statement...aye? Otherwise you wouldn't be advocating CrossFit.
My pizza comment was sarcasm. Health diet AND exercise is the key to health. It takes both..all exercise and crap eating is not a good long term health goal. Conversely, no exercise and good eating ain't good either. And, I think, you and I agree on that.
(For long backpacks, I still eat like crap. The caloric intake does not meet he caloric output..but that;s another thread)
I think the article is just yet another excuse for people not to exercise.
After all the title is "
Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin
Again, something we both obviously disagree about.
Mags met a healthy babe. Neener. Neener.
Met her well into my current phase. :) My buddy is down to what he weighed in boot camp...at 37 yo. I can't let him top me like that. :D
But you just ate skinless chicken and broccoli.
It was in the humor thread. Look up the word "stronz". A useful word I know from back home. Describes people without humor and/or comprehension such as yourself. :)
take-a-knee
08-08-2009, 23:06
output must be greater than input! simple.
But "input" is horribly complicated, ask any endocrinologist.
take-a-knee
08-08-2009, 23:20
To quote the article " moderately strenuous activity like walking while carrying groceries."
And, safe to say, both you and I disagree with that statement...aye? Otherwise you wouldn't be advocating CrossFit.
My pizza comment was sarcasm. Health diet AND exercise is the key to health. It takes both..all exercise and crap eating is not a good long term health goal. Conversely, no exercise and good eating ain't good either. And, I think, you and I agree on that.
(For long backpacks, I still eat like crap. The caloric intake does not meet he caloric output..but that;s another thread)
I think the article is just yet another excuse for people not to exercise.
After all the title is "
Why Exercise Won't Make You Thin
Again, something we both obviously disagree about.
Mags met a healthy babe. Neener. Neener.
Met her well into my current phase. :) My buddy is down to what he weighed in boot camp...at 37 yo. I can't let him top me like that. :D
But you just ate skinless chicken and broccoli.
It was in the humor thread. Look up the word "stronz". A useful word I know from back home. Describes people without humor and/or comprehension such as yourself. :)
Well, you and I certainly agree that diet an exercise are both essential for optimal health. The "Caveman/Paleo Diet" crowd leans toward the gist of this article, and this may be where the author is coming from. The guy who writes the Marks Daily Apple blog believes in a lot of moderate activity, but with a little crossfit type intensity to boot. This,of course, is ideal but not possible for the majority of people today. That is why Crossfit will be the way all who are serious about fitness will train ten or twenty years from now, it doesn't take all day, and you don't have to "live at the gym". Sedentary folks who do crossfit type workouts will most likely have to restrict calories to loose weight, and the healthiest way to do that is with the Zone Diet's block system.
mateozzz
08-09-2009, 14:09
I've never met a fat person who didn't have an eating disorder. Either too much bad food, too little or no good food, or both. There may be some genetic component to explain why some people get fat more easily, but unless there has been some sort of crazy genetic mutation in the last 20 years people are getting fatter because they eat more and exercise less. Both can be modified if the person wants to. However if they are trying exercise just to justify eating crap, they are doomed to fail (and complain loudly about how they are part of the teeny percentage of people with a true genetic problem).
Its simple, exercise enough to build muscle and improve cardio. Eat less junk food, more natural food, and lots of low calorie bulky food (i.e. fiber). Some junk food is OK as occasional treats, you don't have to torture yourself. So any diet that says you have to eliminate completely some food category is most likely a waste of time. Everything in moderation is a good rule.
Wise Old Owl
08-09-2009, 14:51
Ried - I reread your posts and I still do not see genetics as a factor, this isn't about race. In fact race would be a very poor example of obesity. If you think that a group or race of people are more susceptible to becoming fat - I can point out, Its about choice and upbringing.
Several years back I would have lunch at a local pub that hired some the best skinny cutest servers in the area, I can only say it was a little like Hooters. Everything on the menu was fried, with white processed bread or can we agree a poor choice to eat there. The young girls that also ate there for lunch within six months would have to buy a bigger size jeans in short fashion. The girls that brought in salads for themselves everyday had no problem. I don't eat there anymore. I don't get fries with that, please do not super size me.....
Although I really hate the show "The Biggest Looser" my wife is a very big fan of the show. I cannot help but watch it because we share the TV. It's about making good choices in meals, adding more fruit to your diet. Stopping by a Subway instead of Mc D's. At dinner its two vegetables and a smaller portion of meat.
On a side note if you consume more than two alcoholic drinks a night such as a beer, there is a lot of truth to the beer belly when it comes to empty calories, sugars, and suppressed metabolism. - Cheers Ried!:banana
You've always got to be careful reading these articles, because even well-meaning, well-designed research has a 5% built-in chance of being wrong. So, if someone wants to write a "surprising" article, they can go and select 10 studies that are part of that 5% out of the thousand studies that are done and use those to make an argument. Not worth my time to see if that is the case here.
In med school, they summed up the issue thusly: Diet and exercise are both important for weight loss. Calorie restriction is clearly the more important of the two. You see the best rates of weight loss with both, relatively good with just calorie restriction, and only marginal weight loss with exercise alone. On a side note, the lecturer told us about one of her patients who dropped from 360-->300 in twelve months exclusively by limiting himself to just 2L of Mountain Dew a day.
Petr
superman
08-09-2009, 18:06
A long term study that I've personaly done over the course of my life is that if you can't lose weight, Italian cooking is the best to not lose weight eating.:D
Wise Old Owl
08-09-2009, 18:36
Well Petr, I agree with you... but if you look at my post I wasn't talking about research - I was talking from personal experiences. And yes some science can be wrong I suspect two things were really going on when I was loosing some serious weight that was never discussed.
1. Sodium levels were at a all time low.
2. Some of it was super foods.
3. Alcohol was off the list.
4. manufactured vitamins were at an all time high.
5. Some good foods were not to be consumed - Ham & Banana's
6. Although it was never stated - some exercise accelerated the loss.
What's up with the ham and bananas? I was also under the impressoin that beer didn't have fat it in.
dreamsoftrails
08-09-2009, 20:43
most hikers get fat when they come home. so the article is right :)
i wonder how many thru hikers have come home from their trip and actually maintained their skinyness?
lot of moderate activity, but with a little crossfit type intensity to boot.
I don't know about Crossfit or the Zone, but I've been doing a heavy mix of my usual hiking with a strong does of additional intense cardio and weight training (light weights, high reps). Also been eating uber-healthy (with some cheating on weekends when I typically do a very long hike..or attend my nephew's b-day at a water park earlier today. ;) ). FWIW, I am about 5 pounds away from my PCT hiker weight, but with a fair amount of upper body definition that I never had. My body fat percentage is also approaching the "athletic" category.
So..what I am doing sounds like the same thing..just with a different name. :)
(We also agree that the Kaufman's are wonderful people. On the essential things we agree whole heartedly. :) )
Italian cooking is the best to not lose weight eating.
Amen brother..amen.
Wise Old Owl
08-09-2009, 20:48
Reid I have no idea - ham & bananas were off the list, I really do not know why & I did ask...
Beer is empty calories and sugars and suppresses you ability to metabolize. After a 10 or 15 miler have one full bodied beer and tell me half an hour later how great that hike feels...NO KIDDING.
most hikers get fat when they come home. so the article is right :)
i wonder how many thru hikers have come home from their trip and actually maintained their skinyness?
Er...I think it is the overeating like a thru-hiker WITHOUT THE EXERCISE OF THRU-HIKER.
Less calories in, more calories out. And if you want to be truly healthy..exercise and eat right.
But, I'm a dumb ass. Whadda I know.
Wise Old Owl
08-09-2009, 21:04
Mags go with what you know works for you.
dreamsoftrails
08-09-2009, 21:27
Er...I think it is the overeating like a thru-hiker WITHOUT THE EXERCISE OF THRU-HIKER.
Less calories in, more calories out. And if you want to be truly healthy..exercise and eat right.
But, I'm a dumb ass. Whadda I know.
ok. wow. but can one come home and reasonable replace his thru hike exercise?
and we know for a damn fact that his appetite will remain for a while.
ok. wow. but can one come home and reasonable replace his thru hike exercise?
I am four pounds away from what I weighed when I finished the PCT.
In a month, I'll probably weigh slightly less (with more upper body) and be at or close to 10% body fat.
I work out an hour or so a day (with some backpacking/day hikes thrown in on weekends) and WATCH WHAT I EAT. I am not strict. I still have a beer every so often and I pig out after weekend backpacking trips.
If a guy like me (who grew up in a family that loves eating and runs to the stocky/muscular side) can do it..well, draw your own conclusions.
Again, less food in and more exercise out.
Less excuses, too.
I have had the feed bag on pretty hard of late. This is good inspiration.
Thanks punkin boy.
Getting old bites, eh? Every friggin' morsel goes somewhere. Things creak and groan. I remember when...